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Thank you IG for this commercial collaboration. Welcome to Serial Entrepreneur, the podcast of entrepreneurs. I'm François Lay and since 2017, I'm going to meet the entrepreneurs who inspired me. PME, start-up, grandes entreprises, la mission de Serial Entrepreneur est de mettre en avant toute la diversité de l'entrepreneuriat francophone.
Bonjour à toutes et à tous, j'espère que vous allez bien. Pour ce 104e épisode, j'ai discuté pendant plus d'une heure avec Juliette Keff, la cofondatrice de Vert, un média indépendant d'actualité en ligne sur l'écologie. Juliette et Normande a des parents professeurs et commence sa carrière professionnelle au sein d'un cabinet d'expertise dédié au comité d'entreprise. Son rapport à la terre reste ancré en elle et elle décide de tout quitter pour se lancer dans l'écriture et dans le milieu du journalisme.
Écrire, ça l'intéresse, écrire sur ses convictions et ses valeurs, ça l'anime. En janvier 2020, elle lance Vert, le média qui annonce la couleur avec son associé Lou et Spaglière, avec seulement 1000€ en poche mais une véritable envie de se démarquer en mettant l'écologie au cœur de leur contenu. Leur mission, donner les clés pour comprendre les sujets liés à l'écologie. Vert fournit des chiffres, des définitions, des graphiques ou des conseils de lecture pour que chacune et chacun puisse disposer des bases afin de mieux se saisir des enjeux de la crise climatique et entrevoir des solutions.
Financés intégralement par leur communauté et par les dons des engagés qui font vivre leurs médias, ils ont compris plus de 40 000 personnes. Entre l'écriture d'un roman, son rapport avec les médias traditionnels, la création et le développement de son média, Juliette s'est confié à moi sur son aventure. Un grand merci à elle pour cet échange hautement qualitatif. Avant de vous laisser avec cet épisode, n'oubliez pas, et c'est très important, de vous abonner sur votre plateforme favorite, de mettre 5 étoiles sur Apple Podcasts et Spotify et de partager l'épisode à votre réseau.
Prenez soin de vous et on se retrouve dimanche prochain pour un nouvel épisode. Et bien bonjour à toutes et à tous et bienvenue sur Serial Entrepreneur, le podcast des entrepreneurs. Aujourd'hui je suis très heureux de recevoir Juliette Keff qui est la cofondatrice et présidente de Vert, le média qui annonce la couleur. Salut Juliette, comment tu vas ?
Salut François, ça va très bien ce début d'année 2023, meilleur vœu d'ailleurs. Exactement, meilleur vœu, très bonne année à toi aussi. Vert c'est un média sur l'écologie qui a été créé fin 2019, début 2020 si je ne dis pas de bêtises. C'est un super média très très cool, on aura l'occasion du coup d'en discuter pendant cet épisode.
Et moi je commence à chaque fois mes podcasts sur le parcours. Ma première question c'est de savoir dans quel environnement est-ce que tu as grandi ? J'ai grandi dans une famille de profs. Donc j'ai grandi pendant 10 ans dans la campagne normande et après mes parents ont déménagé à Lyon.
Donc j'ai eu un parcours de la campagne à la ville, centre-ville, et après j'ai poursuivi mes études à Lyon. Qu'est-ce que toutes ces expériences t'ont permis d'apprendre en fait ? Bah écoute, en tout cas j'ai déjà une sensibilité à l'écologie qui vient du fait que j'ai grandi ces 10 premières années à la campagne. Donc ça c'est quelque chose qui m'a beaucoup marqué, qui m'a beaucoup imprégné.
Dans ma famille maternelle, si on remonte à quelques générations il y avait des agriculteurs, donc voilà aussi un rapport à la terre, certaines valeurs qui se sont transmises aussi dans cette famille. Donc effectivement c'est quelque chose qui je pense a distillé un peu des traces dans ma vision du monde et justement dans l'importance de remettre de la place des questions écologiques dans la marche du monde. Parce qu'aujourd'hui on a tendance à beaucoup décorréler effectivement la façon dont on voit l'entreprise, dont la société fonctionne avec les questions écologiques, alors que je pense que c'est fondamentalement totalement imbriqué. Et après mes études, j'ai différentes expériences professionnelles qui n'étaient pas forcément liées à l'écologie.
J'ai travaillé pendant plusieurs années dans un cabinet d'expertise pour les comités d'entreprise. Donc en fait si tu veux j'allais dans des grosses boîtes, des petites boîtes, du secteur de l'industrie, du secteur de la presse, du secteur des services, des entreprises très différentes et je faisais des audits sur la politique sociale et les conditions de travail des gens dans les boîtes. Donc ça m'a permis de voir pas mal d'entreprises différentes et ça m'a donné aussi effectivement une bonne vision de l'écosystème des entreprises. Tout avait plus de 50 salariés donc il y a un certain nombre de choses qui ne se retrouvent pas dans les petites entreprises comme celles que je dirige actuellement.
Mais en tout cas ça m'a donné une bonne expérience du monde entrepreneurial. Et également j'ai pu être en espèce de coworking aussi donc voir pas mal de start-up qui se lançaient. Donc ça aussi ça a imprégné un petit peu ma vision. Sachant que moi j'avais jamais vraiment pensé à lancer une entreprise, enfin tout à l'heure on ne sait pas quelque chose où je me suis dit quand j'avais 10 ans, tiens je vais lancer ma boîte, enfin vraiment pas du tout, moi je suis vraiment d'une famille de profs, de fonctionnaires.
Donc j'étais plutôt destiné à avoir une carrière où j'entre dans un des ministères de l'Etat, type aux affaires intérieures ou aux relations internationales et puis je refais des échelons progressivement. Et en fait à la suite de mes études j'ai vachement déconstruit cette vision un petit peu carriériste, d'une carrière qui doit être en permanence, avoir toujours un poste supérieur l'un après l'autre etc. J'ai totalement déconstruit ça et je me suis dit qu'est-ce que j'ai vraiment envie de faire. Du coup ça a été une réflexion pendant les 4 ans que j'étais dans ce cabinet, je me suis dit qu'est-ce que j'ai vraiment envie de faire et la réponse a été j'ai envie d'écrire.
Donc en fait j'ai quitté mon travail, j'ai quitté ce travail dans le cabinet d'expertise pour écrire un roman. Ça a été une grande aventure autre qu'entrepreneuriale mais une grande aventure aussi. Pendant de 18 mois j'ai écrit un roman sur une photojournaliste des années 50 et c'est elle aussi qui a pas mal idée finalement vers le journalisme puisque j'ai un peu travaillé finalement avec elle pour travailler sur des personnages. C'est un travail aussi quasiment comme si on avait un collègue, c'est assez marrant.
Donc j'ai écrit ce roman qui n'est pas publié mais qui est toujours dans mes tiroirs et que je compte bien sortir un jour. Génial ! C'est sur la fiction, sur l'écologie ? En fait c'est surtout un roman biographique sur cette photojournaliste américaine qui bossait pour le magazine Life qui en fait dans les années 50 était un peu le précurseur de Paris Match, c'est-à-dire un magazine uniquement sur les photos mais pas le côté people, enfin il y avait un petit peu un côté people mais c'était aussi beaucoup de reportages à l'étranger par exemple.
Et Lisa Larsen, cette photojournaliste faisait beaucoup en fait de reportages à l'étranger donc elle allait dans les états d'Europe de l'Est. Ça a été une des premières journalistes à retourner en Mongolie après, enfin dans les années 50. Et du coup j'ai un peu suivi son parcours, j'ai décortiqué ses reportages et je me suis intéressé à sa vie. Voilà, j'ai écrit sur sa vie.
Ok, génial. Avant de passer à Vert, j'aimerais revenir avec toi sur une de tes expériences et notamment ton année en Argentine. Est-ce que tu peux me raconter un peu cette année et ce que ça t'a permis de découvrir entre guillemets ? Alors c'était une année d'échange quand j'étais à la chance de Lyon, quand il y a beaucoup d'instituts d'études politiques dans lesquels on fait une année comme ça en troisième année, généralement on part un mois à l'étranger, soit faire un stage, soit poursuivre des études universitaires.
Et moi c'est ce que j'ai fait à Buenos Aires, j'ai eu des cours à l'université de Buenos Aires et du coup j'ai pu avoir des cours de sociologie, d'histoire de l'Argentine, d'histoire des partis politiques argentins. C'était super intéressant, mais j'avais très peu d'heures de cours, j'avais une dizaine d'heures de cours et du coup je me suis dit donc qu'est-ce que je vais faire à côté ? Donc je suis allé frapper à la porte de la ligue Argentine pour les droits de l'homme et j'ai été stagiaire pendant quelques mois à côté de mes études où je bossais avec des avocats sur des cas qui avaient beaucoup de procès contre les dictateurs argentins à l'époque. Il y a eu une grosse dictation en Argentine il y a quelques dizaines d'années et du coup il y avait des procès qui se faisaient et moi j'ai aidé les avocats à préparer des dossiers.
Ok, génial. Et du coup tu vas créer Vert le média avec ton associé Lou Espargillière, j'espère que je le dis bien, fin 2019 début 2020. Comment et pourquoi est-ce que vous avez créé ce média ? A la base c'est Lou qui était journaliste depuis 5 ans, il a fait une école de journalisme et en fait il était pigé sur les questions environnementales et il considérait qu'il n'y avait pas de média sur l'écologie qui était suffisamment généraliste, c'est-à-dire qui permettait au grand public de vraiment comprendre les questions d'actualité sur l'écologie.
En gros à l'époque il y avait un média indépendant qui s'appelle Reporters qui était assez positionnée à l'époque sur les questions plutôt sociales militantes chroniques des luttes. Il y avait des grands médias généralistes comme Le Monde mais qui en gros c'était cantonné à la rubrique Planète tout ce qu'il y avait trait à l'écologie et dans d'autres rubriques on ne retrouvait pas du tout cette empreinte-là écologique. Et puis il y a des médias hyper spécialisés type Actu environnement sur les aspects réglementaires, des choses comme ça. Donc en fait il s'est dit, il manque vraiment un média qui chaque jour me permet de faire ma veille sur les questions écologiques.
Du coup il a eu cette idée là fin 2019 effectivement, il a fait une première mouture de la newsletter parce que Vert en fait c'est essentiellement une newsletter qui envoie chaque jour à nos abonnés à midi, du lundi au vendredi, et qui propose un tour d'horizon en fait de l'actu de l'écologie sur le climat, sur le vivant etc, en 7 minutes de lecture. Le but c'était d'avoir une newsletter qui soit relativement courte, bien pensée, où on ait les articles en entier. Donc on l'a vraiment conçu comme un petit journal, donc tu as en fait toutes ces rubriques qui sont là pour que le lecteur finalement il trouve dans sa boîte aux lettres, comme avant il ouvrait sa boîte aux lettres physique pour trouver le journal, là il ouvre sa boîte aux lettres électronique et il trouve ce petit journal sur l'écologie chaque jour à midi. Il n'a pas à faire l'effort d'aller sur notre site pour consulter les articles, là c'est le journal qui vient directement à lui.
Donc voilà on a lancé ça effectivement tous les deux début janvier 2020, à ce moment là c'était juste avant le Covid, donc en fait on a eu deux mois et demi juste avant le Covid pour commencer à faire la soirée d'inauguration du journal, on a fait ça je crois fin février 2020, donc c'était vraiment genre trois semaines avant le premier confinement. Et après on a commencé à développer, on a créé la société Vert en mai, au début c'était la micro-entreprise de loup qui finalement lui permettait d'avoir un salaire, et progressivement on a créé cette société et on a développé le business à deux à partir de mai 2020. Et moi si tu veux à l'époque ce que je faisais, donc j'écrivais en parallèle, je finissais d'écrire mon roman, et donc j'avais un peu de temps en fait pour relire la newsletter. Et en fait quand tu écris un article, il y a forcément des erreurs, il y a forcément des coquilles, il y a un peu des phrases mal tournées ou quoi, et donc il y a un boulot qui est un peu invisible, mais qui est celui du correcteur, correcteur, et qui va, on appelle ça des secrétaires de rédaction généralement en journalisme, et c'est des journalistes effectivement, qui font ce travail de relire et corriger les articles avant qu'ils sortent.
Donc moi je faisais ça au début pour Vert, et progressivement en fait j'ai commencé à prendre de plus en plus de place dans ce projet, et aussi à trouver ma place en tout moment 2020, 2021, mes missions ont vachement bougées, on va en reparler peut-être, et on a créé cette société en mai 2020 avec vous. C'est vrai que c'était un sacré timing, quelques semaines, quelques mois avant l'arrivée de la pandémie, comment est-ce que vous l'avez vécu justement en lien avec votre média finalement, c'était presque le timing parfait entre guillemets ? Ouais la chance qu'on a vu c'est que c'était un média en ligne, donc déjà on n'a pas eu à gérer des problèmes d'approvisionnement de logistique ou je ne sais quoi avec le papier, ou plus récemment ce qu'on voit avec le papier c'est aussi une inflation des coûts qui est absolument énorme, le prix du papier explose en ce moment, donc nous on n'a pas à gérer ça. Mais pour revenir à ta question en fait, je pense qu'on a quand même été impacté parce qu'on a connu un développement plus lent que si on a vécu les gens, parce qu'en fait il faut quand même rappeler qu'il y a beaucoup de médias qui se lancent, c'est déjà des journalistes connus, ou alors ils se lancent avec pas mal d'argent, nous ce qu'on a mis en verre au départ c'était 1000 balles et rien d'autre, 1000 balles qu'on a mis dans le design graphique pour créer le logo et la charte, et au final on n'avait pas beaucoup d'autres ressources que ça, nous on n'avait pas des noms connus, on est relativement jeunes, donc en fait on avait vraiment à faire notre trou dans le paysage médiatique, et ça, ça a pris un peu de temps, et au début avec le confinement je pense que ça a été vachement ralenti, on n'a pas pu aller serrer des poignets de main, enfin tu vois, en plus on était journalistes, on travaillait beaucoup sur le terrain, là c'est pas des choses qu'on a vraiment pu faire, enfin ça a été un petit peu plus compliqué.
En revanche, à partir de septembre 2021, on a ouvert des bureaux à Paris, on a recruté des gens et on a constitué une vraie équipe, dont on a, pour certains, le journaliste en CDI qui était nostalgique l'année dernière, qu'on a pu effectivement embaucher à la rentrée 2022, donc à partir de 2021, on a vraiment commencé à se réancrer à Paris, à voir ces bureaux, et à aller à énormément d'événements, à être invité aussi beaucoup dans des conférences, des tables rondes, à participer à l'écosystème parisien des médias, qui est très riche, il y a beaucoup de choses qui se fassent, très effervescent forcément, et puis après on peut faire le choix entre les projets qu'on mène, mais globalement, effectivement, je pense que le côté physique c'est absolument essentiel, le fait de rencontrer des gens physiquement, ça remplace internet, ça ne peut pas remplacer ça en fait. C'est-à-dire que la relation de confiance que tu crées, même quand tu vois une personne juste à une soirée, en fait ça n'a pas pris par rapport juste à envoyer un email ou un message sur LinkedIn, ça ne peut pas remplacer ça, et quand on développe une entreprise, à fortiori quand on développe un média, on a besoin d'avoir une relation de confiance avec nos sources comme journaliste, on a besoin de trouver des gens qui vont être intéressés par notre média, qui vont participer à nos événements, parce qu'on fait aussi pas mal d'organiser des tables rondes par exemple, donc quand tu organises une table ronde, tu vas avoir des interlocuteurs qui vont être là, tu les vois, donc il y a une relation de confiance qui se crée, ils vont forcément partager des contenus de plus en plus, etc., donc en fait ça participe au rayonnement du journal, d'avoir un réseau qui est un réseau pas en ligne mais aussi un réseau physique, de gens que tu connais vraiment. Je pense que c'est super intéressant ce que tu dis, parce qu'effectivement, on peut penser que monter un média 100% digital, effectivement il n'y a entre guillemets que le côté 100% digital, mais il y a cet aspect physique qui est, comme tu dis, extrêmement important pour rentrer dans ces écosystèmes, dans ces réseaux et se faire connaître aussi potentiellement du grand public, puisque c'est aussi l'objectif de Vert, j'imagine, c'est se faire connaître du grand public et être identifié comme le premier média dédié à l'écologie finalement. Ouais, c'est totalement ça, c'est exactement l'objectif, et ça, ça passe par la création aussi d'une communauté par exemple de lecteurs et de lectrices, mais qui peuvent nous rencontrer physiquement.
En fait, si tu veux, aujourd'hui, il y a aussi pas mal d'a priori sur les médias, mais en tout cas, une partie de la population a l'impression que c'est un peu des officines obscures, on ne sait pas comment l'information est fabriquée, et en fait, on a vraiment besoin d'ouvrir les portes de nos journaux et d'avoir de la transparence qui se fasse, et ça, ça peut passer par des événements physiques, où on invite nos lectrices et nos lecteurs à nous voir et qui savent qui on est. C'est pour ça qu'au début, quand on a créé Vert, on a choisi d'avoir la signature de l'anusateur, où on voit la tête des gens qui écrit Vert, et ça, c'est super important pour nous, en fait, de mettre des visages sur des noms, on signe absolument toujours nos articles, il n'y a quasiment aucune information qui sort de Vert qui n'est pas signée par quelqu'un, pour justement avoir une relation de confiance avec chacun des journalistes qui travaillent à Vert, et après, il y a d'autres métiers, on a par exemple quelqu'un qui est chargé du marketing, cette personne aussi, elle est présente à nos événements, donc on peut, les lecteurs et lectrices, les gens de la communauté de Vert peuvent tout à fait nous rencontrer physiquement, et ça me paraît hyper important, et à terme d'ailleurs, on veut développer ça partout en France, on aimerait ne pas rester uniquement à Paris, mais voilà, faire des événements un peu partout en France. Après, pour l'instant, on n'est pas encore très nombreux, on est cinq salariés à temps plein permanent à Vert, mais voilà, il faut qu'on grandisse pour justement pouvoir assumer le fait de faire des événements ailleurs qu'à Paris, pour se déclasser, etc. Donc ça, ça demande une gestion du temps aussi des journalistes, puisque c'est d'autres tâches que le fait d'écrire des articles qu'il faudrait faire.
Comment est-ce que vous fonctionnez au sein du Média, et comment est-ce que ça a évolué en fait ? Parce que c'est quand même un timing assez court, début 2020 à, justement aujourd'hui, on enregistre le podcast début janvier 2023. Ça fait trois ans. Ça fait trois ans exactement, donc bon anniversaire déjà aussi.
Vraiment, on le fait de 8 mars. Comment est-ce que ça s'est passé cette aventure ? Cette aventure, donc je disais au début, on a fonctionné à deux avec Lou, c'est Lou qui écrivait la majeure partie des articles, donc qui faisait vraiment le boulot de journaliste de sortir l'information tous les jours, donc c'était une énorme charge de travail pour lui. Et après, moi j'ai pris de plus en plus de place dans ce projet, et je m'occupais principalement des aspects de développement business, gestion d'entreprise, gestion administrative et financière, une partie des réseaux sociaux.
Et en fait, ça ne me comprenait pas chez certains plans, parce que ce que j'aime faire aussi c'est écrire. Donc pour en 2021, je me suis un peu repositionnée dans mes missions, et du coup je conserve bien sûr la direction, notamment les directeurs administratifs et financières, et puis une partie de la direction stratégique qu'on partage pour le coup à part d'égal avec vous. Mais je conserve du temps en fait pour ce qui me fait le plus qu'il fait, parce que je pense que c'est hyper important quand on développe une entreprise, c'est vraiment de prendre du plaisir à ça. Et donc ce qui me procure, là où je me sens le plus utile, c'est quand j'écris des articles.
so I have reserved a part of my time to really be in my redaction, so that it has changed, the mission has changed. During 2021, we also tried to open a post chargé of communication, which was in charge of our social media. And in fact, this post didn't work very well, it was not due to the person who it occupies, but it was due to the nature of the post. It's to say that today, to make posts on the social media, it's almost like being an other media.
So in fact, we have to make an écriture of our articles expressly for the social media. So that's a great job, a great job. And when we're not a journalist, we don't see in the article what is the most important or the most important. We don't have the best punchlines to make posts, etc.
So what we decided, finally, is to not record this post and to, you and I, as a journalist and founder of media. So that's why it takes quite a lot of time. But our social media has exploded in fact. I think we should have 5,000 abonnés the last year at Insta, and there we are approaching the 40,000.
So you know, there is something that is in order of being to take care of the social media. It's a job, but it's also a job that needs to be connected to the redaction, because we have this particularity of already producing a lot of content. And what we need to do is adapt to the social media. And then I think we could find someone who is really a better cult than we-mêmes, because it's not our social media, because it's not our social media, but it's true that the last year, we didn't have, I think, the profile of journalists and social media, which would have been useful for you.
Okay, but it's not your job, but more than 37,000 abonnés on Instagram, more than 26,000 on LinkedIn, more than 13,000 on Twitter, it's kind of a very good thing. Yeah, it's a very good thing. Like LinkedIn, for example, we don't have enough time to take care of it. It's to say that, when we post regularly, it's a lot of time.
Instagram, on the other hand, it's a lot of tough, because there's a lot of posts that are dedicated, it's a lot of posts that are dedicated, it's a lot of posts that are dedicated, it's a lot of posts that are dedicated, it's a lot of posts that are dedicated, it's a lot of posts that are dedicated. And for the question, what has changed since 3 years in terms of AVER, there's a lot of things that have changed. There's a lot of things that have changed. We have two people to five people in the same place.
We have also some pigist who write regularly, so each week they write in AVER. A pigist or a pigist is a journalist independent, but who will be embauched either in the day or in the day or in the day, or in the day, and so we have about 7 people who work for AVER, more of a pigist who write an article. And that, it's a lot of things that have been done. There's a lot of things that have been done.
When we are a director of an office, it's something that we have to do, we have to do an important thing that we have to do, but the most important thing that we do need to do is to do the same thing as we have a AVER. We have to do the same thing that we have a AVER. to form, to do some competence, to have a transparency of the formation, to be able to do the collaborative tools and organizations. We have to do an enormous work to not only manage the publication of the week's program, but also to share information on the other, on the same page, on the other page, it's called A2CHAN which allows us to organize and to develop the time.
So there's all these issues like transmission, of new projects. We have made a lot of projects in this 3 years. One of the projects we are finally the most proud it's an elaboration of the chart for a journalistic at the height of the urgency and that was a project that we had a lot of time in 2022. In March 2022, we worked with 30 journalists to elaborate this chart and it was super interesting for us because we were a little catalyseur of an ecosystem that is not super solidaire and we tried to say to other journalists that in fact we have a envie to transform the landscape but we are conscient that we are not the same.
So we have also to look at other media and say in fact you guys what are you going to do together etc. So it's been a great collaborative and I think it's very inspiring for other ecosystem business. It's also to say how can we work together on certain things and sort of a bit of logic concurrently that we see a lot in our ecosystem and the most y compris, we look at the media a lot of the other and we are trying to transform the media and we have to transform the society and that we can't do it if we are all alone. We have to be solidified with all the other journalists who do it individually in each media, including the media and also in other media indépendance, in all types of media in all types of media we are able to be solidified.
That's why we have made this chart and what we propose are these 13 points which are a very good practice to transform the landscape. It's going to be things like to do more education in the media, it's going to be more education in the media, it's going to be continuous when you're a journalist, when you're a question ecologist, it's going to be dissociated by the reaction of the actionnaires, if there are, because it's also not in the media, so there are problems between publicity, information, it's going to be separated by the editors and the actionnaires, the proprietors of the media. And this chart has had an enormous amount when it was released in September. It was signed by more than 600 journalists, by hundreds of editions.
And that, it has given us an interesting place in the ecosystem because it has really identified as being the porters of these reflections. And since, for example, we have done the formation auprès of other media, auprès de grands médias sur les questions écologiques. So in fact, we are going to form our sponsors and our confrères des grands médias, because there is actually a bascule which is in the world médiatic, and we are going to talk about it, but there are still many things, for that information be at the top of the lens of the world. Super interesting.
Effectivement, tu as anticipated my question on the one after, which was just on this chart, which was which was basically the one that was made up to the many media, and I would like to turn on to your business model, and understand how is it today, with Zerr, you have been an agence, I know you have a part donation, and I know you have a part formation, you have to do it. We had to be a choice in order to align our economy with the values that we were able to have with Zerr, so from the beginning, it was evident that we were going to make a media indépendant. Why? Because we had not a desire to publicity and to depend on And in addition, we had a lot of reason because the revenue of the publicity was effondering during the Covid, so it was a very interesting choice, and it was impossible to have a deal with the market, or to have an interest in combination with the private sector, that is also for the public sector, because we are independent of the government, independent of the political parties, all that you want, but not only with the private sector, because we are in a moment where there is a lot of confusion, for example, on the social media with the market who has a lot of greenwashing, in the publicity, you see a little bit of anything, so all of a sudden, we are going to put it in a relationship with that, and we are going to create a media indépendant, that means that we are going to find the revenue that are the most independent possible, so what we do is ask our lecturers to make a lot of money, so it's rather the model of a don, which works very well, but it requires a lot of work, especially for the community, it requires a lot of work, a lot of work with a crowdfunding, so I can detail a little bit what we are doing, but there are two pillars of financement, the first is the don, and the second is the formation, which we are doing a lot of other media, including indépendant.
The dons, it's really a permit for our quotidien, it's to say that you have the dons which are recurrents, we have the chance to récolter the dons which are official, because it's an exception to the press, in fact that we are based on an association of the press indépendance, which collects the dons for us, and so the dons are deductible at 66%, which means that the people are in a and that's really interesting, because it's a little bit of the logic that we are used to, which are a lot of an abonnement, it's to say that you can read Metapart, or you can read The Monde for the articles that are reserved for the abonnés, only if you are abonné, etc. Nous, on a vouloir that this is the most open possible, so we are in an access libre, so gratuite, so you can click on the site, you can click on the website, you can click on the website and you can click on the website, you can click on the website gratuitement, because in fact, we wanted absolutely that the information on the ecology is to diffuse the most large enough possible, so we don't want to put two freins at this information-là. Par contre, on we say that in permanence to the lecteurs and to the a little bit, but regularly on envoie des appels aux dons, and often on envoie des mails dédiés, so it's not a newsletter, it's a mail that you receive at another moment, and you can just demand spécifiquement to the lecteurs to support us. And then, that's for the dons a bit regular.
And then this year, we launched two campaigns of crowdfunding. Au mois de mai, we launched a campaign, which is just a communication, just on us, just on us, souten us, you have a month for us to support us, etc. And that, it was very well done on a demandé 20,000 euros, and on a 32,000 euros, so in one month it was super well done. It was also to represent the data, to to augment our visibility, to solicit our website, and to the renforcer, finally, to bring new ideas, to demand to a certain personnalités to support us, to these organizations also, bref, to the people who use it, but who have not taken the opportunity to support us just like that, to tell us that it's for your future general, it's for you to inform us about the issue of ecology, it's for you to be in the profession, to be informed of what's happening so if it's for you, now, it's for us.
And the second campaign, which we have made in novembre, in a few weeks, there was another project, a new project, a poster on the poster, the first it's on the CO2, and the the goal is to understand the order of the brand on the carbon, to say what's it's for you, what's what's it's for me, what's what's the cost of my carbon carbon, and what's what's the biggest what's the solution for to achieve the neutral carbon carbon, so with some very concrete. On the poster with an infographic this, there it's not completely the the graphism, it's not that it's done, but we were able to look at the scientists, and we were able to support to the public to have this project, so not only a poster, but a series of posters in infographic, which will be released in 2023 and 2024, because in fact, we have the scores, our first for three posters it was 9,000 euros, the maximum for, I think, it was 33,000 euros, and in fact, we had 52,000. So, the project on a explosion, we had more than 500% of our project initials, and that, it allowed us to have an annual which is really good. So, we are very happy, we are supported by our community, we have a lot of work for that, it's important to to say, how can I incite people to give people to give people to give people to give people to give people to give people to give people to give people to give people to give people to give people to give people to give people to give people to give people to give me a lot of advice and that we have to know because they are as a part of the marketing.
We are also accompanied by an agency specialised in the media named Médane, who is very important. So, it's in place all the strategies we have a lot of things to do, it's a bit infinite, but it's because of that we have to do. And the formation is a lot of more professional, there's many journalists who are about to help it, and it's a great a mission with the organizations like Sansa.fr, Imagine 2050, which gives us a mission to go to other media to form them. So it's them who make an appeal to offer, and we, in fact, we make the formation.
That's a bit of a repetition. And it's also interesting for us, because it allows us to also give us our vision of ecology. That's to say, when we do that, if we form a journalist who then write articles, who write videos or radio, that means that this vision-là, it's a style, even if we relativize this power of influence, but in all cases, mine de rien, we plant on a little bit in the brain in the brain, and then things change. And then, we're going to have an ecosystem that is very rich.
The reflections are absolutely passionately, with some friends, with some friends and sisters who pose these questions-là depuis quite a long time than us, and who make an exceptional work. It's a strategy that is a way to change today, and who is trying to change. So, we're going to have these changes-là. Okay.
Super, interesting. D'un côté, there's a community who is very engaged, and of the other, there's also the fact of being recognized, and of being recognized very quickly by their peers, PIRS, but it's from there that it's been a very beautiful year. And all this is related to a quality and a recurrence of this content. Yeah, I'm sorry to remember, but we see a lot of anti-silence.
It's very fair. Yeah, it's right. We see a lot of anti-silence in the media, but they're not assidu. In fact, when we launch a media, there's a lot of code.
And we need to have a serious product. And we need to have a serious product. We need to have a lot of input between our business and the lack of information, the fact that is being created, of the fact to cross our source, of the information. We know where we're going to do the information.
We're going to put it on the equation, which is something that's important for us. And then in the second part, we're able to go to a very good rate. For example, we're on the user every day, and it's always a marriage. And then we're going to be able to stay with it.
It's always a long time. And we're going to be too high enough because, for the people who are accustomed to it. We won't be able to get the user to say that's not a good, I'll finish my article later on, and then we'll wait. No, we'll just leave the product at the base level, There is a lot to be done for the website, like Vert.eco, for example.
So we have worked with the graphist and the developers who have developed that. And they have made a site that is great. In fact, there are only things like that where there is a serious thing, which is really the basic thing. And then on can add some projects, on can add some resources, on can add everything you want.
But there is already that the basic thing you want. I think it's important to remind you, because creating a media is something extremely difficult. In the entrepreneur, it's difficult, but the creation of a media, it's difficult. So it's important to remind you.
You talked a little bit about it on the chart, but I would like to ask you this question. What do you think today about the French media and their in relation to the ecology? Well, it's very, very antivalent. The basic thing we could do is that the media generalists don't talk a little bit about ecology.
When they talk about it, they don't talk a little bit about it, they don't talk a little bit about it. But, I'll talk a little bit about it. For example, one of the problems, is that they have very few links between the extreme events that we have, for example, you know, the stage with the canicule to repetition, where if we live today, it's very hot, while we're in the middle of the year. We've had the year 2022, which has really exposed all the records.
It's been extremely hot. And the 31 December, it was the new and the most hot history in history. So in fact, all of that, the media explains quite well, they're not necessarily the right terms, they're not necessarily the right terms, and we'll talk about the douceur, for example, although it's a cold, we'll talk about the heat, we'll talk about the biodiversity, or I don't know what was the term, but we prefer the term a little bit more corset, to show that there is an urgency, and to show that our lives are not neutral. It's perhaps the biggest challenge of the human being in this next century.
So we have to make sure that the media is absolutely transformed to employing the noise at the height of an urgency, to employing the images at the height of an urgency. We can no longer see the children who play in the fields, people who play in the mountains, while there are people who suffer in these situations and we have to change our vision and the way we present the information. And the second problem, which is that we rely very little on the cause of the climate and the climate change. What is the cause of the climate change?
In fact, it's simply the human activity. It's to say that we're going to sell more cars, especially the SUVs which are a lot more expensive, because these vehicles are totally in terms of materials that are necessary for these SUVs. They consume a lot of energy fossiles. It's related to our life.
But simply to put in question this mode of view, it's extremely complicated for the media because traditionally they are rather chronically things that they have the habit. For example, in the political campaign, we will have political journalists who will interrogate, I don't know, the economy, the politics, the justice, and they will be really well, traditional, and they will not be able to interview the candidates on the ecology, on the issues of ecology. And that, we have seen in the presidential campaign, it was shown by the coalition of the SEC, which has measured every week the volume of the media that was dedicated to ecology, and it never surpassed 5% compared to the rest of the articles. We have seen with the release of the GEC, which is the group of experts inter-gouvernemental on the evolution of the climate, which has released in 2021-2022 three layers of his sixth report, which has really made the case of science on the climate.
And at the same time, there were very good articles, and there were very good journalists in the media, but at the same time, the hierarchy of information, which is the way we classed the information, is always in favor of its news on the ecology. So for example, in 2021, you have Lionel Messi, who was transferred to the PSG the same day that the first time of the release of the report of the GEC. Well, in 24 hours, Messi, it's five times more articles than the report of the GEC, so that it concerns more than our avenir to talk about the report of the GEC rather than the transfer of Messi. In fact, the problem is that we don't have to talk about the transfer of Messi, but we don't have to talk about it.
And we don't have to talk about the importance in the literature, so it doesn't have to talk about it. It's not to talk about it. We don't have to talk about the priorities in the MESA, it's inversely. It's important that we have to talk about it.
We have to talk about events, the désobéissance civils, for example, the last thing that will block the route or the the soup. We talk about it as criminals without really understanding what they have in the head. Maybe that the methods are not the right, it's the way to the citizen and the citizen, but it's necessary to take the decision. It's necessary to go to the problem, to understand what's going on, to understand what's going on, to understand what's going on, and to explain what's going on, to explain what's going on.
And then the last thing that's going on, the press and the media tradition is to propose a solution. It's to say, we talk about the solution. How do we call it? How do we move to avoid the global level?
We don't have an absolute problem. One of the biggest solutions, we talk about it, because we talk about the soberanist energy, it's the renovation thermicii des vassets. Like that, it would be easier to reduce the gas emissions of gas gas衣 from a deal of public. It's to be a solution to make it small for the same.
The solution to be done by the political side. The solution to be allowed to be discussed in the land of Cyperia, and in democracy, so we can't deal with the issues that we cross. We need journalists to get these solutions, to try to need to look at these solutions and to present them to the public. So it's for all that, it's all that.
It's what we do in the media, it's a very important thing. Yeah, totally. And it's why we are so happy to be lu. Because it's something that's in fact that we allow to exercise this little power of influence to transform the society.
It's in all case the crisis that we have chosen. But I think that's not the only thing. The media is super important, but in fact, the author of films, the author of films, the author of the film, the author of the film, the author of the film, the author of the film, the whole sector of the culture has an impact. And it would be great that the creators and creators of these subjects and they will take their lives and they will also look at the social issues.
Because there's not only the issues as we are, but it's not just a social issue and so it doesn't work. But it's so important that we have these two issues. And from there, we have a new grid of the world. And I think that the company should absolutely put it in it.
And I think that when we develop a business, in fact, today, it should be at the heart of our business. To ask if we have a positive impact or negative impact on what we are in fact. If today, we launch a brand called Shine, which defends the living because its model is simply to make an hyper fast fashion and to sell articles in the entire world with the ateliers who are in the countries where we are exploiting children and the populations like the Ouigours, it's not possible. For me, there's a responsibility when we are entrepreneur to really think about your business model in terms of these issues.
And in plus, it's great because in the transition ecologically or in the bifurcation, in the way of changing society in a way rather radical so that we limit the pires effects of climate change, and when we choose to put the social justice and social in the business model, we can do things exceptional. We can do the regeneration of the living. We can do the solutions to protect the ecosystems. We can do things very creative.
I mean, the creativity, the innovation, the innovation, the innovation, the innovation, the innovation, the innovation, the innovation, the innovation of how we appréhend our work. It could be how we do more to the people as a civic tech. There's a lot of passion. Today, we have a lot of entrepreneurs who are engaged and who are the question of how they can contribute to the society in a positive way.
But I think that as an entrepreneur, as an entrepreneur, as an impact, how can I be able to contribute to a model to the living rather than the destruction? I think that's cool. And I think that's not cool. I think that's absolutely necessary today.
I think that's a responsibility for everyone where we are in the society. And when we are an entrepreneur, we have a particular role in the society. It's like when we are a prof. When we are a journalist, when we are a journalist, we have a problem with these questions.
I think that's where we are as a parent, as a parent, as a parent, as a parent, as a parent, as a role. And it's not a sacerdoce, it's not punitive. It's very creative, it's joyeux. The way I try to manage it, it's something that's something that's something that's something that's really a joy in permanence.
And I have the impression to contribute to a society more just and better. So in fact, there are two. I think that the two are compatible. And I think that we can have an entrepreneur who are super and who propose super interesting solutions.
There, for example, Vert has integrated the réseau Entreprendre Paris. So we have a lot of entrepreneurs who are really super interesting. I think that the two are possible. Totally aligned with what you said.
For concluing on this part, I have one last question. Can you give me some stats on Vert? How many of you are today on Vert? How many of you are on the newsletter?
And the question is what are the future goals for the next month and this year 2023? With pleasure. Vert, we have five permanents. There are two pages régulières.
That's to be part of the conference and the way we do the journal the lundi and midi. And then we have people with whom we collaborate in a way more punctual. One time per month, one time per trimestre, we ask them to write an article or they ask them to write an article and they ask them to write an article. After, in terms of the newsletter, we have been in December 25.000.
So it's already a newsletter which is, frankly, in terms of abonnés. To give you an element of comparison, in December 2021, we were at 7.000 abonnés. So we are passing from 7.000 to 25.000 in 2022. So it's super positive in terms of the growth of the newsletter.
The perspective for 2023, well, I'd be very happy if we arrived at 50.000 in December 2023. We'll see if we're going to do it. But in any case, we are on a level of acquisition of an abonnés which is super sympa. And that's linked to a lot of things.
It's linked to the community. It's linked to the media, in the media, in the media, in the media, in the media, for example, we're invited to have a lot of abonnés who arrive. And also, because we're on the social media as well as an individual or by BERT. And that's also a good way to acquire these abonnés.
So in 2023, we're going to open up a post, a post, a post, a post, a post, a post senior, who has already an experience and who can help us to get the articles and get the plus young that we have. And then, we're on the other post, but there will be one or two other post in 2023. And the but is that we're going to be as a result because we're pretty independent and we're not independent. We're not happy but we're not happy to put in danger this balance and that's what we're trying to do.
And we're really going to be in the next part with two questions. The first one is what was the most difficult for you? The most difficult is to manage the job and the organization. In the last few weeks we've done a lot of things and myself, I have a lot of activities different from the center.
So it's just to be to be an organization of my planning and my agenda. It's something that's the most difficult to me. Assume a charge of work very intense with the hours really extended with the week-end who are working. So for the moment, I have the impression that the organization is the most difficult thing.
And that's why I'm in January so I can still give me a great resolution. It's to be a lot of collaboration. There's plenty of people who ask me to intervene. There's plenty of opportunities and opportunities.
And then when we're in the media, we're very visible. So the people contact us very easily. And so, at the moment, there's a lot of solicitation and there's an organization of my charge of work. So the goal of 2023 is to say no.
It's to be fair and to be fair but we can't do it and we can't do it. It's also to be able to continue our career and to be an entrepreneur and to be an entrepreneur and to be able to make this society so we have less experience. So it's super important to do the choice and very often to refuse the opportunities because it's a part of the game and there's only 24 hours so it's clear I'm in there. The second question is what you're most proud today?
The most proud is to be in an ecosystem that becomes solid and to be in place in collaboration with other journalists and other media because I have the impression of conflict with the world that I'm doing. I try to practice and do what I believe. I believe that I believe that I believe that I believe that I believe that I believe that I believe that I believe that I believe that I believe that I believe that I believe that I believe that I believe that I believe that I believe that I'm a fan of the media reporter on a job on a job with the media on a job with the blast socials and these people are very well for me because I think that we're all more strong when we're all for the media and to have a great community that's a solidarity that's something I'm fier and I have a desire to continue to inspire myself in the ecosystem. Yes, I agree with that, it's super important.
Let's go to the last part of the podcast, on the podcast and your vision of the media. Do you want to talk about an adventure that has marked your adventure? I know there are plenty of events, but do you want to mention one in particular? I'm going to share, not a direct link, but a direct link that I received.
I don't know if it works in this category, but it's something that I want to share. Yes, I accept. Because I have a direct link to it every day, and it's an extraordinary link to it. It's a direct link to it.
It's a direct link to it, so we can respond to the newsletters. If you respond, you will receive your email. We usually read it and we'll answer it. There is an expert who has sent us a Excel file of all the titles of Vert.
In fact, it's true that Verts, we are very known for it, there are people who are listening to it. He said, I'm not interested in the content of your newsletters, I'm interested in the newsletters. And so he has sent us a copy of the Meilleur Jeux de Mots of Verts. And it's a text that's funny.
And I found it great because I thought, this is an expert who has nothing to do with ecology, who is not a language, but I have an effort with this conversation totally marrant. I have an effort that one day, they have to be able to get an email and to be educated on ecology, and to be able to nourish the content. And I think that the way we try to do it, with this humorous tone, especially in the Meilleur Jeux de Mots, that allows people who are quite open to these subjects to come to the ecological questions. That's to say, they're saying that it's a little bit boring than to read an article hyper-formel.
The fact that there's a lot of things that are often being used to work the style, that allows us to be fun. Because we can talk about these questions in a way of fun. We're not obligated to be hyper-plombant. We can have a tone of joy, we can have a tone of joy, and that's not the case in all the articles, there are some things that we have to treat but this Courrier Lecture has reminded that the humorous is super important that's why it's important to be able to treat it seriously, and it's an element of differentiation I think it's important at the time, and even on the baseline, the media who annoncent the couleur, I think that you know where you are.
Well, on annonce the couleur with the slogan, and I'm going to try to do it. Exactly. The second question is is that you can cite three people who you inspire the most today? I know that the source of inspiration evolved through the years, the people who we inspired it's not the same today, but is that you can potentially talk about three people who you inspire today?
The first person, it's a journalist American who's called Gloria Steinheim who's an ex-feminist, who I read a super book in the past, and in fact, it was very helpful, because at the beginning, I had quite a bit of trouble I think that I'm a kind of timid, and in fact, I'm completely libérée. It's like, I was hallucinée, and I'm going to tell you very well, but in general, when you have a conversation with someone or two, you have to listen to 50% of the time and speak for 50% of the time to have a relationship that is equal and equal. In a relationship, I had a lot of time to listen to the people, but in affirmation, and in assuming my voice and in assuming the things that I have to say, I'm going to transform the world and to make it easier, to make it easier, to make it easier, to make it easier, to make it easier, and that's what I have to say. I read many books because I have a chronicle littéraire and one of the books that I have the most recently is the one of Myriam Bhafou, which was published in the past few months.
It's a book on the eco-feminism, it's the ecology and the feminine feminine if we want to think in a way extremely simple. It's a bit more complex. It's also interesting because it's really fun to be able to be very clever. She is very introverted, she is very feminine, and also ultra-feminine and so she is also very introverted, very extravagant.
In fact, it's just you are just accepting. And that's something she must have shown her, which she must have taken. In the meetings I had to do so, I knew there were many people that I had to do this year. That would be kind of political.
Like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, this American who is absolutely extraordinary, this young woman, who is so strong, she has an way to be. She also is funny, she is also towards people with a lot of conviction, she is trying to take part in these politics and is creating a important voice to be very transparent, very strong and concrete. I mean, it's also inspired me too. Okay, super.
We're going back to the last part. Just before I have a question for what is important for you when you create a media? When you create a media, I think it's difficult for yourself. We have to entour in the beginning, but I think it's valuable for any entrepreneur.
I think it's absolutely necessary to think about your business model in the same time as your product editorial. At the beginning, there are many journalists who say, and they say, well, the people are going to read because they are not. But in fact, no. They are going to read if they know it already, so that means you have to get the notoriety.
They are going to read if the information is well presented, so that means you have to be jolie. In any case, there is a graphism that goes with the product. They are going to read if you want to read. So in fact, they are going to read if you are going to read and they are going to read if you want to read.
So in fact, there are plenty of elements like that of business models, in the end of the product editorials, and I think that the most important, and it's difficult for us when we're a journalist, because it's not that we're going to read, it's really to think about the marketing and to think about the way we're going to touch the people. Why are they going to read? Because there is an information that is enormous on the market. Today, we are rather face to a lot of information that is not enough.
We are face to a lot of information of very low quality, liable to the fact that there are a lot of content gratuities and that the people pay the amount of information and that the people pay the amount of information. So we have really need to be to learn about the business model. Very good advice. Let's go to the last part of our exchange with some quick questions.
Jacqueline, you have time to answer, and not of course, like at the beginning of this exchange. What do you do to align the best? I see my friends, and I'm not alone. I'm going to say that I have the chance because I'm a very optimist of nature.
So I'm trying to be in the way, to tell me that there are things positives, etc. But if I'm not on the tapis, I'm trying to connect to the pleasure that I have to develop and offer. In fact, let me know what's going on in the box, and even if there are some things that I'm trying to do, even if there are some things that I'm trying to do to see how to do this work, I'm trying to find out that I'm trying to do so. I'm trying to get some advice to the last few weeks.
As long as the last few months, I had to draper my experience in the last few months. I have less experiences so that there are more experiences to me to get my mind and to get them done. And that we know that it is difficult to achieve. In the end of the season, but at least I was taken care of the world and I was taken care of the fact with our state.
So well, I'm up to having more and more in the last few months, but in the last few months, after that, with Lou, we were told to work more than was that we have to provide for example, it's something very important for us, because we need to have other activities, to do sports, to listen to music, to listen to music, to listen to our lives, and not only to stay in our business, but also to stay in our lives. I understand totally. Do you have a book to me? I have a book called Plutôt Nourir, by Clément Osier and Noémi Calais.
It's a book that is a book of life on a family, so Noémi Calais, which is an ancient book that is built in different countries, international issues, very educated, and all that, who, for those reasons, are living in the Gers, and they are living in the world. And in fact, it's incredible, because this book, when the teacher of the press me was presented, and I said, there's this book on the Elevage, and I said, I didn't want to read that, because it's not my thing, for different reasons. For example, the Elevage in physicality, it's extremely ecological, we have to have to get out of the model of Elevage in physicality. And in fact, I've got a book, and this book, it's not about Elevage in physicality, it's on the récit of an Eleveuse, who has a quinzine of cochons, which is really a very small community, and it's great, because it's both for the Elevage in physicality, and I'll note that.
Do you have a book or a series of books? Well, I'll talk about the series of Cyril Dion, Un Month Nouveau, which is released on Arte, and it's three episodes of 52 minutes. And in general, it's about how we fight, so there's plenty of examples of fights for a better world, finally, or the people who who are engaged in the first episode, who are engaged. And then, it's also about solutions that are proposed in the entire world for better to nourish, better to logize, and all kinds of sequences which are super interesting, so I'll recommend these three in a series of books on Arte.
Okay, I'll note that. And my next question for this exchange, which I ask for each time, is what for you, one or one entrepreneur? An entrepreneur or entrepreneur, it's someone who will have to develop a new entity, a new organization, so it's an entrepreneur, and who will create something new, so there's an idea, and who is capable of traversing the experience. It's a bit of an initiation, an initiation, an initiatory, finally.
There are difficulties, there are things belles, and the entrepreneur, the entrepreneur, he takes his bâton pèlerin, and he will, finally, traverse all these people, for abouting, in fact, it doesn't matter, there's no longer, because everything is always in course, but it's a person who wants to be a professional, he wants to be a professional, he wants to be a professional, he wants to be a professional, he wants to be a professional, so there's also a vision, he is also very transversal, he does all the different things. Jerry is a little entrepreneur, it's a little like the couteau suisse contemporain of the company, he will have the couteau, the fourchette, even the little accessoires that you don't even know what to do on the couteau suisse, like the little tire-bouchon or the little cure-dent, in fact, he is all at the same, and what I recommend is not to forget that we can do all the sacrifices because it's our business, but we don't have to repose on the people with whom we work, or the people with whom we work, or the people with whom we work, because in fact, it's going to work to our company, I work in the conditions of work, so it's very important for me to say that the people with whom we work, as horizontal as our organization, they are the salary of the structure, so in fact, it's a contract to work and they have the horrors, they have the responsibilities who are attendants to their salary, and in fact, it's not too much to ask. We can do it and we can do it because the structure and it's not the same and it's not the same thing and it's not the same thing and it's not the same thing and it's not the same thing and it's not the same thing and it's not the same thing that's going to be a good way to conclude this exchange. Thank you Juliette for this little time to discuss with you.
I hope that it has plu. Thank you François for the invitation. And I wish you a lot of luck for this year 2023 and I wish you a lot of luck for everything that has already been done. I think it's important to remember to create a media it's difficult, to create a media on the ecology it's not even more difficult.
You have already managed and you have already managed to do something that's great. So bravo and continue on the next month and the next year. Thank you for your encouragement and pleasure to see you in the next episode. Thank you.
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Thank you. I'll see you later. And these last months, I realized that if I could build a project on the long term, I would also think about my personal life because no one would make my place. And IG helped me to invest in an action and in ETF.
You can simply start with a fraction of 10 euros and open a account. If you have a perfect moment, it's like in an entrepreneur, you're going to wait for a long time. So for the action, the IG is in description. Thank you for this commercial collaboration.
Thank you.