EPISODE · Nov 18, 2025 · 1H 21M
#23: Jim Kalbach on Journey Mapping, Jobs To Be Done, And The Intersection Of Customer Success And UX
from UX Fika Podcast · host Anna Dahlström
In this episode of the UX Fika podcast, I sit down with Jim Kalbach, author of several books including Mapping Experiences and The Jobs To Be Done Playbook, Collaborative Intelligence. Jim is also the Chief Evangelist at Mural and has spent more than two decades shaping how teams understand human experiences, uncover customer needs, and collaborate more meaningfully.We talk about the evolution of journey mapping, from an obscure UX technique to a must-have tool that leaders now ask for, and why the real value isn’t in the beautiful deliverable, but in the conversations, alignment, and sensemaking that happen because of it. Jim explains why mapping is a diagnostic tool, a catalyst, and increasingly a survival skill for organisations navigating relentless change and the realities of AI.We dive into how AI and journey mapping now inform each other: how AI helps us see patterns in huge datasets, and why understanding human experience has never been more essential as people land “in the middle” of journeys through search, social, and now LLMs.We also talk about Jobs To Be Done, how to separate customer needs from your solution, and why language and specificity matter so much when you’re trying to understand the problem behind the problem. Jim shares what most organisations get wrong, why “things don’t have needs — people do,” and why getting clear on intent is still one of the sharpest competitive advantages you can build.Beyond that we cover the Intersection of customer success and UX but we also talk about music, collaboration, and how jazz improvisation, sheet music, and walking bass lines all shape the way Jim thinks about teamwork, structure, and the unseen foundations that hold great experiences together.Plus:☕️ Why coffee and dark chocolate is his go to Fika⭐ Why something will always work out, or it always does is his go to advice.What we cover:02:20 Introduction to Mapping Experiences02:50 Evolution of Journey Mapping05:51 AI's Impact on Experience Design09:01 The Role of Journey Mapping in Organizations12:00 Writing and Publishing Books14:56 Jobs to Be Done Framework17:44 Understanding Job Performers and Personas32:30 The Evolution of UX and Design Responsibilities34:52 The Democratization of Design37:56 The Dispersal of UX Community and Knowledge39:43 Building a Community Around Jobs to Be Done43:22 The Intersection of Customer Success and UX46:04 The Broader Implications of Jobs to Be Done48:45 The Role of Music in Creative Processes51:48 Collaboration as a Musical Metaphor54:40 Self-Publishing and Sharing Knowledge57:11 The Journey to Information Architecture01:01:43 Understanding Human-Centered Design01:05:25 The Future of AI and Human Needs01:10:24 Building Human-Centered Organizations01:13:47 Words to Live By and Personal ReflectionsWhere you'll find JimLinkedInJobs To Be Done ToolkitJobs To Be Done PlaybookWhere you’ll find Anna & UX Fika:LinkedInUX Fika websiteInstagram
What this episode covers
In this episode of the UX Fika podcast, I sit down with Jim Kalbach, author of several books including Mapping Experiences and The Jobs To Be Done Playbook, Collaborative Intelligence. Jim is also the Chief Evangelist at Mural and has spent more than two decades shaping how teams understand human experiences, uncover customer needs, and collaborate more meaningfully.We talk about the evolution of journey mapping, from an obscure UX technique to a must-have tool that leaders now ask for, and why the real value isn’t in the beautiful deliverable, but in the conversations, alignment, and sensemaking that happen because of it. Jim explains why mapping is a diagnostic tool, a catalyst, and increasingly a survival skill for organisations navigating relentless change and the realities of AI.We dive into how AI and journey mapping now inform each other: how AI helps us see patterns in huge datasets, and why understanding human experience has never been more essential as people land “in the middle” of journeys through search, social, and now LLMs.We also talk about Jobs To Be Done, how to separate customer needs from your solution, and why language and specificity matter so much when you’re trying to understand the problem behind the problem. Jim shares what most organisations get wrong, why “things don’t have needs — people do,” and why getting clear on intent is still one of the sharpest competitive advantages you can build.Beyond that we cover the Intersection of customer success and UX but we also talk about music, collaboration, and how jazz improvisation, sheet music, and walking bass lines all shape the way Jim thinks about teamwork, structure, and the unseen foundations that hold great experiences together.Plus:☕️ Why coffee and dark chocolate is his go to Fika⭐ Why something will always work out, or it always does is his go to advice.What we cover:02:20 Introduction to Mapping Experiences02:50 Evolution of Journey Mapping05:51 AI's Impact on Experience Design09:01 The Role of Journey Mapping in Organizations12:00 Writing and Publishing Books14:56 Jobs to Be Done Framework17:44 Understanding Job Performers and Personas32:30 The Evolution of UX and Design Responsibilities34:52 The Democratization of Design37:56 The Dispersal of UX Community and Knowledge39:43 Building a Community Around Jobs to Be Done43:22 The Intersection of Customer Success and UX46:04 The Broader Implications of Jobs to Be Done48:45 The Role of Music in Creative Processes51:48 Collaboration as a Musical Metaphor54:40 Self-Publishing and Sharing Knowledge57:11 The Journey to Information Architecture01:01:43 Understanding Human-Centered Design01:05:25 The Future of AI and Human Needs01:10:24 Building Human-Centered Organizations01:13:47 Words to Live By and Personal ReflectionsWhere you'll find JimLinkedInJobs To Be Done ToolkitJobs To Be Done PlaybookWhere you’ll find Anna & UX Fika:LinkedInUX Fika websiteInstagram
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#23: Jim Kalbach on Journey Mapping, Jobs To Be Done, And The Intersection Of Customer Success And UX
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