Greetings friends who one day if you're lucky will be fossils. This is Michael Garfield reporting to you from the Farathi Interzone of Art, Science, and Philosophy, Reconnaissance for Renaissance with a special little bonus episode. If you've been keeping up with the show, you know I just pressed the nitro booster button on the publication schedule and I'm working on getting all these talks and interviews that were recorded last year out as quickly as possible. So a little experiment I'm going to spend twice as much time on this show for the next couple months and hopefully you like that and it works out for everybody.
I talk enough on this show as it is so for the most part I've tried to limit the amount of my own public talks that I put out through this platform but this isn't especially fun and juicy one though. It's a feature-length retelling of a much shorter talk that I gave in the Commonwealth Bank of Australia Innovation Lab. The most subversive and provocative presentation I could have given to the most professional corporate audience I've ever been looking up to speak in front of but this recording is of my talk at Palenque Norte which is a psychedelic speaker series co-founded by Terrence McKenna back in the 1990s that lives on at Burning Man every year reminding me of that great Hunter S. Thompson quote when the going gets weird a weird turn pro and I think this talk gets at the heart of what it means to be pro these days if by pro you mean successfully navigating an increasingly psychedelic landscape of living technologies and programmed flesh of autonomous corporations running wild on the internet and human brains linked across wireless networks.
Yes indeed the workplace is only getting stranger which I think ought to be evident from the raw and noisy field recording of this talk at Burning Man you get a real sense for just how cacophonously creative it is out there. Anyway this is a lot of ideas really fast I hope you like it if you have any comments or questions after listening feel free to join the Facebook discussion group and weigh in there or email me at futurefosselspodcast at gmail.com I'd love to hear from you and I think I'm also going to start doing an occasional listeners letters section for the show which should be fun so thanks to everyone who's been supporting the show on patreon it is still my greatest source of income which remains a daily test of my faith in the value of this work and the promise of the creative lifestyle and it's awesome to have that kind of direct and intimate creator audience relationship with the people who resonate with these ideas thanks also to everyone who's been leaving these five-star reviews for the show on iTunes it's hugely helpful I greatly appreciate it same goes for everyone who's just been sharing the show with your friends personal recommendations are still the greatest currency in the land and it warms my heart every time I see future fossils tagged in some comment thread about what cool podcast to listen to next so I love you all thank you so much for listening and enjoy this talk on how to raise the living technologies of our vertiginous future with love care and wisdom. The talk that I pitched Frank for today was called Tech Ethics as psychedelic parenting so this will be I think of these names as like a jazz standard you know like you're working from a fake book and then you riff out of the fake book you know you like freestyle so the first time I did this talk it was a five minute presentation for Ignite freelance conference in Austin Texas where I had 20 slides and 15 seconds per slide to talk about whatever I wanted and I figured most people were going to do something kind of straight so I was like all right how can I how can I appeal to the curiosity of like closet, trip, or freelance Austin tech people and the title tech ethics psychedelic parenting was intended to stir things up it was sensationalist on purpose and then I took the same presentation and I gave it through a weird series of coincidences I ended up somehow burrowing into the innovation lab at the Commonwealth Bank of Australia which is the largest bank in Australia and processes 40% of their transactions because I met one of their guys Andrew Despey at Rainbow Surbit Festival we were both speaking on artificial intelligence and we headed off I love the Australian tradition of like taking the piss out of each other and we like totally tackled each other through our talks and developed a really solid respect and so I had the opportunity to come and give this talk to a bunch of young intelligent creative people that are working with and very confusing and kind of I want to say malevolent but they're working in this weird sense for but also in opposition to the structure that is supporting them and that's just sort of framing this so we're going to go without the slides this time because I kind of want to take it in a different direction but the basic thesis of this talk is two points one that the internet and in general telecommunication technologies I see as this will be no surprise any of here that they are sort of a nervous system that is growing on the planet and wiring together human societies and not just the societies but the cultures the ideas that creating avenues through which these ideas can be remixed and in so doing they are creating this networked identity that is not bound to bloodline or to geography and that the primary mode of organization of modern human society is noet which is to say that we're no organizing and aligning primarily along the like states of consciousness rather than nations or families and that you know it's your religion or like your social network or your you know which drugs you take you know or your political philosophy and that these because this has moved from this sort of more simple and concrete insight outside we are over here and they are over there and into this folded system where self and other have been folded and folded and folded and folded and the closer we look the more folds we find and you know you get to that that Dustin Hoffman in iHeartHuckity's point where you can't really tell where we first of course it starts you know stops and each of us is the intersection of all of these different things from the world and we're rapping into each other but the internet is functioning as a kind of psychedelic and it is transitioning us from like from one mode of identity construction to a new mode of identity construction in which we identify as planetary citizens in like a mundane sense but in a kind of more cosmic or spiritual sense we literally experience our senses reaching out beyond the envelope of our bodies as we understood them and are starting to feel and experience things from all around the world and like out into space and you know that now it's now like i was talking to these uh this finished team of scientists and artists that are working in the conflict egg installation at the deep plant and they were saying yeah it's extraordinary how many of us are obsessed with the latest trump tweets in Finland and not like what's going on immediately around us that we're all sort of in the same soup now but there are all these different layers that are like the different ages of life history on this planet human identity and it's mixing in a way that i think can be understood as or framed metaphorically as a collective psychedelic experience that is occurring for the planet rather than for individual people and is occurring over historical time rather than over the the half life of LSD as it like you know boosting up the body and so because we are contained within this this growing planet brain that is waking up the way that children actually children you know have a different pattern of brain activity that's a lot more like tripping and so in a way i think what we're really dealing with is this child like Alex Brady talks about the cosmic christ is that you know the second coming is the planet the entire planet like all of us are awakening as a single entity that nonetheless because of the complexity of the ecosystem of culture now or the the ecology of minds is providing new opportunities for hyper-individuation even as it collects us and that was a peer peer-attabity should end then he said hyper-collectivization leads to hyper-personalization it's very clear on a burning man suddenly when you're when you're sort of supported within the new body of this thing rather than acting as an individual that we are sort of free to be more ourselves rather than conform to the orthodox rules and regulations and social codes and mores of a particular tradition which is kept in order to maintain itself against in a year or so but so that's part one of this thing which is that these telecommunication abilities which historically we know to be heavily influenced and inspired by the psychedelic experience there's the famous Steve Jobs confession that lc was a formative experience for him in the foundation of apple computers and the uh you know perry moles the the chemists whose discovery of a player is chain reaction which was the how we learned to synthesize dna the laboratory and is the foundation of all of genetic engineering says that that came to him under the influence of psychedelics and Ralph Abraham the chaos theorist in whose work is you know fundamental in our mathematical understanding of all of this key and his buddies were uh prepping dmt in large volumes in the 1960s in Santa Cruz like way before anybody knew what this was uh so you hit us all over the place and like now it's sort of the cats out of the bag and you know forbs and the New Yorker and all these people are reporting on the the popularity of micro dosing among Silicon Valley programmers and it's very hard to historically separate or press the relationship between the cathedral brain that we're building on this planet right now and that phenomenon being a consequence of the psychedelic experience and the way that psychedelic experience presents us with a new construction of self in which the inner and the outer are folded together what Richard Doyle calls the ego-delic experience when you talk about these things heavily determines the way that we experience the trip and so he suggests that perhaps better than psychedelic with its loaded cultural connotations that e-codelic is actually more accurate to an age where people are realizing that they are extensions of the biosphere through ayahuasca and that kind of thing so and you look back even further on that and the relationship between psychedelics and humans social organization and human language and the syntax of human beings in society and the syntax of words and human communication are themselves seemingly and the case is stronger and stronger all the time that these things actually emerged from trans-species relationship of plant and animal and that you know by emptying ourselves and allowing an agency of non-human intelligence to enter and act through us that we became and this is Richard Doyle's thesis and Darwin's fun to see that we basically were sort of required to come up with language, human language as a way of communicating these transcendental experiences that we were having with plant medicines in like back hundreds of thousands of years possibly and that the complexity of these experiences caused us to reach beyond ourselves and constantly reach for a way to express these powerful and transformative states to the people that we care about to the members of our tribal community so by taking the the plant medicines into ourselves we have sort of fused with them into a symbiotic relationship where our human consciousness became much more synesthetic and densely interconnected and our sense of identity became tribal and social and more densely interconnected and is a ratcheting process the more we persist in this the longer that this continues the horizon of our inevitable continues to stretch on beyond us and so we we keep reaching for this thing that continues to exceed our grasp and so the bandwidth of our communication technologies we're constantly seeking to open this bandwidth and to say more and to communicate more and like it's very clear now that you know even intact language and speech and film and music and all these things are insufficient in and of themselves to communicate the richness of these experiences and so you know we came up with things like theater and opera and then you know more more recently virtual reality is sort of performing the same function by webbing there's a phrase called endos and biosis where like creature becomes a piece of bigger creature and lives within it and becomes more in within the body of this thing and so like all of our media are becoming endosibiotically bound within this new language that is just now beginning to take shape which is a language much closer to the direct transmission of a full sensory experience and a mental experience than anything we've approached so far and I think that actually we're we're coming up on just a couple of years ago they wired rats together and taught one rat to run a maze and they templated the neural network learning of that rat through this wireless connection across the planet I think it was like Japan and North Carolina or something and and the other rat learned to run this maze from a wireless brain implant from the other rat and so and then like more recently we've with with brain implants in humans we managed to induce experience, sensory experiences that you're not actually having this one else is having where you like use shine a light in someone's eye and the other person's visual cortex registers light in that person's experiences light and so the language is now starting to look at if there's a new fold where we are we're folding together into a sort of collective minds as individuals where like for example DARPA is working on linking the minds of soldiers together so that even if you're like out of the line of sight of the other members of your battalion that you know when someone is under fire or you know when they hear you know helicopter passing and so using basically these group minds in this setting of course it's not just it's not just military deployment of this stuff it's also people coming together in plant destiny and psychedelic experiments and forming group minds in a way that has actually been practiced extensively by plant people the fermentations called the egg or which I experienced there is the eyes more kids in here I experienced this tripping acid with my partner several years ago where a circuit closed and this third set of eyes opened between us and we realized that we were sort of within even as we created this this minor deity and that became a real phenomenon for us and wed us and it's embraced so this is happening on both frontiers it's happening in the technological and it's happening in the psychological as we learn through the influence the catalytic influence of psychedelics to digest the modern conceptual boundary between psychology and technology between ecology and technology so that's space and we're approaching the point now we're actually coming in the midst of it where we're no longer programming artificial intelligence with brute force but we are training it and for several years now the more effective ways to teach AI has been to guide it and educate it and and to not digitally code its behavior for a particular response but sort of give it a goal to work towards and allow it to figure its only there and so we no longer really know how these things are happening there was a paper a couple years ago about a team that was building a photonic chip rather than an electronic chip it's like a hyper complicated prism that routes light through this network and they were saying like okay how can we start computing with crystals in a much more photonic sense and so they trained an AI to optimize for rapid photonic computation and designed a chip that everyone on the team said there's no way we could have designed this and also you know there are mathematical artificial intelligences that have created proofs for new mathematical discoveries new truths that we know must be true but no human being can understand i think boston talks about this in his book super intelligence which i have not read but he's extremely clever can't do it and we get into this it's worth mentioning that aletturic who in many respects would be regarded as one of the parents of modern computing which is a beautiful thing because you know he was gay and there's something i find fascinating as an aside about the relationship between the constriction of sexual reproduction and the expansion of intellectual invention that i think ultimately i think this is actually the origins of circumcision that like you're moving the focus of memory experience from one end of the organs of the other and it's fascinating how many amazing scientific discoveries were channeled through people who were frustrated in their desire for parenting for like actually generating human life so so we're at this point now where we're really like the things that we're making we're evolving systems we're evolving new forms of intelligence and to clarify like aletturic said that to ask whether a computer can think is like asking whether a submarine can swim we're talking about a functional definition here for intelligence not questions about the subjective experience of consciousness of these minds which may remain forever alien and accessible to us or may use with us as sort of in some regard already has fused with us as a compliment to the human intelligence in a way that this expanded self-concept that is emerging through the internet as a technological medium for subjectivity that the new selves we are regard google as a shared cb u among people or you know regard these like these shared computing resources as a sort of a pooled intelligence within a mechanized molecular consciousness complements or perhaps competes with our native and we're you know we're at a point now where we're looking at the technologizing things that we've discovered within system that we've discovered within life within living systems like the chrispurcaz9 gene editing tool it wasn't a tool until a couple years ago it was a molecular complex in ourselves that would locate and excise viral DNA sequences from the organisms DNA this is like everywhere in nature it was only recently discovered radiolab did an excellent episode of their podcast on it and followed up with another excellent episode about it and i highly encourage that this notion that like we've discovered something we discovered this tool that we found we can program chrispurc2 cut and paste gene sequences and that we're actually at this point now where we're approaching the fruition of this cybernetic metaphor of the human being as a computer and we're actually starting to not just engineer in a sort of like scriptural sense but to truly code new forms of life that we're working on entirely artificial genomes using nucleic acids that are not employed by the original life forms on this planet so there's like all of these ways that this this boundary is coming down between nature and technology as we understood them from our sort of like Italian world garden modern mindset one of my favorites that i just recently read about is that a team of hackers came up with a way to code sequences in DNA so that when that DNA is read by a gene sequence in computer it can launch a buffer overrun attack on the buffer in that computer and can overflow into the main cb and install malware so we've actually found a way to jump the line between DNA as a storage and computing format and our existing electronic formats and it's going the other way too we've found ways to use magnetic fields and sound to alter gene expression my friend david crance works at the aperron center in national carolina where he runs an anticoic sound chamber where it's like a heavily padded room where you hang in a hand like kind of a reclining chair like with your head directly in the center of the room equidistant from these speakers and they're able to focus coherent sound in a way that they're actually able to create specific standing waves in the brain and train the brain is state's unconscious it's much more effective than binaural beats because it's actually a physical activity on the entire person and that they've been doing a lot of research on the way that this regulates the expression of gene activity in people and they're healing people we found that there's a solid light over the last 20 years that there is a form of racial memory in the molecules that bind to dna and control the expression and that trauma or hardship in one generation is actually passed down through these epigenetic markers and that this is where this cyclical cultural trauma exists and we found a biological root of it and we're learning that we can sort of undo a family curse with kind of technology that we can move the markers around and sort of unglue other pages and your it also turns out that dna is a far more stable storage medium than electronic chips and that the data stored on like written into dna has a half life of like hundreds of years rather than years or decades and so there's there's a concerted push right now in numbers of research groups all over the planet to actually fuse these two things the electronic and the nucleic and create computers that are basically running entirely on dna and these are most the easiest way to make these computers is to make them out of bacteria is actually have there are actually like cyborg hydrates with like proteins and nucleic acids on a motherboard that's like one part of it but the other part of it is that you could actually create sort of artificial bacteria that like the Andromeda strain. My campmate we were at Oregon Eclipse here at Kent next to this this guy who was working in a microbiology lab I talked about this in my talk on Tuesday where they found that this particular strain of bacteria joins polymers together as a way of storing its energy and then breaks them apart in order to release that energy and that these polymers if they chain log in a form plastic so these bacteria actually are eating and excreting plastics and then you can sort of tune a culture of these bacteria to grow you a plastic building or like a plastic device of some kind or you could use them to eat trash like to eat a plastic spill like the island of waste in the south Pacific as actually a few of them in the south Pacific.
So I hope at this point I've established that we are way over the rainbow in terms of what we think of sort of naively as life what we think of as technology what we think of is the inner world and what we think of the outer world as distinct categories so the question then becomes why are we still treating our inventions as intellectual property and not life forms that we have created that have a like a destiny and a path of their own that is not something that we merely control and push into them like Stephen fingers book the blank slate deconstruct this modern notion that children are born sort of a tabular rasa and that you can just code a person that it's the fact that identical twins possess so much similarity even if they're separated lived completely separate lives that they find the same you know this is a common story of like two identical twins that were adopted groups and then they end up in the same job very to a woman with the same name you know listening to the same music and that is not the influence of culture so like in the same way these mathematical AI or these AI that are grown through the adversarial networks where you basically put like two prey nantas in a jar together and they fight and then one of them gets like one of them wins gets better so we're actually deploying evolutionary competition in artificial intelligence in order to train these systems that's like the most effective way of doing this right now so evolution in all of these different ways has become technologized and sort of fulfilled this prophecy that Charles Darwin and his like Saint Paul his spokesperson and protege paleontologist Thomas Henry Huxley in the 19th century said that we are we have the Promethean flame of evolution in our hands and what we know this as a culture which is why this this archetype keeps erupting through popular media like the alien prequels Prometheus where they have the black goo the black goo is like the only technology that this super advanced race seems to really use in some sense and they use it to transform biosphere and create life and destroy things and it's it has a will of its own and it's so they have this this very actually familiar kind of non dual the engineers of that film these sort of godlike beings that that films fictional narrative presents as having created human life that they sacrifice themselves to the black goo in order to see a planet with life and that life and death and their unity are now deployed in evolution as an instrument in order to further the greater evolutionary project that in technology evolution we have actually become its willing servants and so that's not like that's not really compatible with the like early 20th century or even before that the agrarian view of children and women's property you know this notion that we can like bound our land and our holdings and that you know everything that emerges through this lineage is sort of my like Solomon and his descendants you know it's not it's not that anymore because Solomon himself is something that the whole planet is doing he's a focal point for the entire ecology that is expressing itself through him and you know through every member of that community and so I I'm in thinking about all this stuff my main concern is that we're gonna get burned but we're playing with fire in the most literal and also the the most richly mythical sense that for me can blame and is of the utmost importance that we proceed into our participation in this future with the kind of care and respect and humility that is most familiar and most native already to parents to people who know for them that you can't just like but a child is born with a personality it's like it's potential but there's also already a developing emergent self-directed seed of something occurring there that you don't control but that kid is not your fault in that sense like that kid you know decides that he's gonna quit the church of Mormon and like those smoke drugs and burning man it's like you didn't really do that you know so especially when we're getting into this issue where it becomes increasingly difficult to for us to determine whether or not these technologies that we are deploying and growing are sentient are having some sort of experience then we're approaching this moment which was really skillfully depicted in the the animatrix which was the animated supplement to the matrix films where we just denied or it shows up also in Blade Runner we just deny subjectivity and we deny agency we deny citizenry personhood to our like android's or our ais and we've seen how horribly this has gone over and over and over in the past when we regards some other race or some other gender or another cultural tradition you know like up until the 20th century you know the British were still depicting their media the Irish as a as a race of eight like subhumans you know but we have to be really careful and really aware of the historical precedent for just assuming non-personhood in a mind that is alien to our own mind or a process that is alien to our own process and so that's really like from there I'll just open it up to discussion because I think that like basically what I'm saying is that if we're going to proceed with this collective psychedelic experience and weave ourselves together into a new and richer ecology of mind on the other side of this catastrophic ecosystem it collapsed that we're all struggling through right now we have to do it as loving parents of whatever emerges and not treat our the children of our minds as kind of more of that calls robotics that our mind children not treat this thing with fear not treated as an other but treated as an agency with whom we can establish a mutual recognition and a loving possibly a consensual partnership and so yeah that's that's my thought man so can I get you can we pass the mic out to you and um two things I mean just the very last thing you're talking about like I mean what do you mean in terms of treating it like a treating it like a not treating it like a other and actually treating it more like a similar ontological status to like a human so that there's like a sensitivity in person like in the sense like what about like the way that the cultural technology the corporation was given person and then treated by the level of the state as a person and in doing that we kind of like open this Pandora box of allowing a non-human entity to function on the level of humans in a political organization and that's giving us a lot of it away so is it then not more about finding the appropriate place for things because that was six out of place to me and at least in the way that a high hazard version of giving too much personhood to intelligence you know I've thought about this issue of corporate personhood for a while and the real issue with corporate personhood is that we give corporations the legal protections of personhood but we do not hold them accountable in the same way that we hold people accountable and I think that if you I think that the solution is actually to go all the way through the eye of the needle here and try corporations for war crimes and other acts of violence, ecocide that you know right now it's very difficult to do that because a corporation has so many more resources and our legal system is set up that basically you know you lawyer up and whoever can afford the most attorneys wins the way that Warner Brothers successfully defended their fraudulent trademark on Happy Birthday for over 100 years. It's like we know that Warner Brothers didn't come up with Happy Birthday but we couldn't win it in case of law for the longest time but I think that the answer here is actually to grant corporations and other you know other sort of material human institutions full personhood and hold them responsible and to steer our legal system into a new mode of organization in which it's not merely about how many lawyers you have in your army versus the other army. I think that there are especially as we start linking human beings as this like this line between the corporation as a legal person and the person as a corporation under the legal fiction you know in terms of you get to that whole like sovereignty thing like maritime law in the sense that like when you're in the birth certificate you're sort of registered as a corporation that I think that yeah basically we have to push through because when we start linking people together via whatever it is the entrainment of magnetic fields or brain implants like the neural lace that you know Elon Musk his team is developing that the the line between the legal corporate entity and the incarnate human met organism is going to blur like beyond any kind of manageable distinction we're going to end up with a whole ecosystem of not just a gradient but like a whole range of possibilities here and so we have to you know we're going to have to find a way to adapt the illegal code and the way that we process crime and accountability so that like you know if you have a group of mind like soldiers and you know someone you know someone is murdered or somebody's like who's accountable there you know like in the same way that you know we want to hold religion accountable for the actions of the religious you know and it's just very confused right now so I don't really think that it's actually not that we should remove perfect personhood but that like as we were talking about in I think it was passages about earth that telecommunications made it possible for the individual to become an institution undo himself or herself and so we're all at the point now where we're on the cusp of like everyone is already there in publishing company but pretty soon in fact I like the church and subgenius and the discordance everyone can be their own religion you know and then pretty soon they're going to be there in bank you know and they're already working on using the blockchain and post blockchain technologies as a platform for virtual nation states so pretty soon you know you and your community of mind will actually function as a non-local political organization and so I think we actually have to go like through that event horizon because we are corporate entities you know we're these like as Chris Ryan was saying bio-fractals the cell is the sort of corporation of bacteria and the animal is the sort of corporation of complex cells and the corporation is really just more of that same process so I think it's just a matter of adjusting what people could just do it yeah and the other thing the thing was you're talking about why we still what is not an electrical property or anything and two things come to mind mind is that you also mentioned that we're harnessing we were developing these things about harnessing processes of evolution that's sort of facilitating in a way you know like saying games and play out in a learning takes place same way the child learns becomes a book so the thing is that is that part of the way that we're able to do is in the stage of our political social organization it requires the motivation of having incented towards capital in order to even bother to bug with these things so I'm not saying it disagrees with the idea but I'm saying that the answer to the question right now is pretty obvious because intellectual property is which drives the limited resource code but we have a process as a destructive game so so Lewis Hyde reading his book Common as Air right now which is a history of intellectual property in the United States and in the European for bears of the United States and his point is that like if we look back at the actual history of the stuff the patent was not originally intended to provide a sort of indefinite ownership of an idea it was provided to create a sort of nursery for the stewards of that idea to raise it to a level of age sophistication where it could be safely released into the comments it was designed to protect the idea so that it could actually be responsibly shared as a part of the comments within a few years and they're like okay well you know like seven years is like enough time for that child be like start walking and talking and being like a member of that scene and you know like what's happened is we've cancer growth that notion into this notion that you can just continually renew patents that the first enclosure of the comments was the enclosure of the land the actual common space and so this all belongs to the king now the second enclosure of the comments was intellectual property and the third enclosure of the comments which is what we've been going through of course of our lifetimes is a preemptive strike against the application of a technology that we don't yet understand so like for example once onto patenting jeans in a human genome before we even really know what those jeans do just so that they can actually like suit up and sue people for you know it's completely predatory and I think that while I agree that it's not so much at the end of the patent it's not so much the end of this notion of caring for an idea and nurturing it and protecting it and allowing a team of people that actually care about it to work on it but it is specifically this notion of intellectual property is a direct descendant of the idea of our children's property like as a holdings in our empire and I think that you know as we become more and more networked what we're seeing is that I have a podcast called Future Fossils and one of the people I interviewed was a guy I met when I was getting this talk about back in Australia his name is Meowudow, Disco Camo Meow Meow and he's a bio-hacker in Sydney he is a really interesting cat and I was asking him about IP and Gene Patting and like aren't you worried that so much of the human genome is patented he's like fuck no Mike like it doesn't matter try and stop us basically like we're so empowered now that I think that the weight has shifted to the other foot where it's no longer about allowing the opportunity for some like row below an inventor in a garage time to like grow this thing up and then release it and now it's about how can we properly open source and like basically re-inhabit the village of the cultivation of ideas and technologies so that we're no longer nuclear families raising our kids behind a white picket fence but we're a global tribe of inventors and makers that are working together in a process of proving on its own mutual oversight and we're watching each other to make sure that nobody's like traumatizing that kid or like selling that child into prostitution or child soldier nonsense you know that the more we're able to like establish these networks of horizontal oversight the more that the patent will eventually fade out and be replaced by these these sort of provisional and improvisational networks of researchers working on raising the child together and so it's not I really believe it is the end of intellectual property but I don't think it's the end of like licensing like honoring the people whose child actually is you know and it just becomes more fluid and less rigid and less uh fine I want to check in yeah so we're we started late but we're going to end late but George Maria is coming up next are you uh late finister? I'm ready.
Awesome well thanks folks uh before we end this I would love anyone who is interested in this talk I don't know why you came in towards the end of it I gave two talks out here uh whether we're super trippy and scientific dish and I would love to stay in touch with you so if you want to leave me your email address I'll pass this clipboard around my name is Michael Garfield from Austin Texas I can't hear a plain keyboard today I'm happy to speak with any of you after this and I would love to meet you and take a sticker and stay in touch please. Thanks again for listening I hope you enjoyed that episode as much as I did future fossils is part of the MindPod Network along with Third Eye Drops the Astral Hustle Synchronicity Podcast and an oodle of other fascinating programs I encourage you to go to mindpodnetwork.com and subscribe to them all and stay tuned because we have some awesome episodes coming up on future fossils but for now may your now be exquisite long and wonderful.