89 - Spider-Man - Into the Spider-Verse (w Andrew Bloom)

I'm Robbie Dornan, and this is Cerro Finesis, the podcast for fans of everything. Welcome. Today, I'm joined by Andrew Bloom of AndrewBlog.net to talk about Spider-Man into the Spider-Verse. We talk about the value of diversity in superhero movies, the incredibly colorful animation, and how much of the movie was aimed at children.

We are both our huge fans of Spider-Man in general, and all of the different Spider-people. And it was a great time talking about it with Andrew onto the discussion. Hello, everyone. I'm here once again with Andrew Bloom, AndrewBlog.net, Andrew.

How are you? I'm doing very well, but I have some bad news. I'm not actually Andrew Bloom. I'm Robbie B.

Dornan, a podcaster from another dimension. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not.

I got it to mention. Do you know that there's parallel dimensions in comic books, Andrew? Are there? I mean, comic books are so state and very different.

I don't know where that would fit in. Which number? That's the quote. We are discussing into the Spider-Verse.

Spider-Man, Spider-Man into the Spider-Verse, the recent animated Spider-Man adjacent film. I don't know. I don't think it's not Spider-Man adjacent. It is.

If anything, Spider-Man overflowing. I mean, that's what I mean. It is not. It is not MCU Spider-Man.

It is various other versions of Spider-Man all at the same time, all together. I'll be in Friends. Mostly Miles Morales with an older version of Peter Parker, Spider-Gwen, Spider-Ham, Spider-Man Noir. I'm not too strong on Spider-Man nor myself.

I'm... Wait, wait. You forgot any Parker and Spider-Man. Yeah, that one too.

Which doesn't make zero sense. Okay. There is Penny Parker. There's also the various...

There's the different Kingpin and the different Ock-Dock-Ock and the different Normanas. They're pulling in all these different permutations of Spider-Man using the various weird multi-verse of the Marvel Universe, which really doesn't see any play in the normal MCU. We don't get any of it, which is probably for the best because there's enough characters already in... I mean, there's half of them than there used to be.

But there's still a lot of characters in the normal MCU. So this is a way to kind of disconnect from that, make a kind of a isolated story, disconnected from any kind of continuity in normal MCU and focus on Miles Morales from Ultimate Spider-Man, the comic book. I'm going to ask you a question, Andrew. Is this...

I'm going to give you an answer a second. Okay. Is this movie great? Yes.

100%. I'm probably softer on the one of the greatest comic book movies of all time from the... I think a lot of people who I respect and like have put forward, but I think it is unquestionably great in my eyes for what it accomplishes. A, by introducing a new character to the audience, the movie going audience, but B, just sort of how it melds the comic bookie elements of its story with the sort of growth and emergence and origin story for Miles and Spider-Man at the same time.

It balances the combination of here's people skipping through time and all their not, yes, a little bit time, but people skipping through different dimensions and alternate universes and all that stuff on the one hand, but also has the young man trying to find himself material on the other hand and somehow weaves it together in a really satisfying way. And I think that and the art style alone would put it in great territory for me. I take it you with my disagree. I'm going to preface this is my preamble, my preamble, my preamble, my preface for everything I'm about to say in this entire podcast, because us just bouncing back and forth saying, this is good and this is good and this is good and this is good and this is good and this is good doesn't necessarily always make for great discussion.

I think it's going to be very good. I would recommend it to almost anyone. I don't think it's great. I think it's very good.

And I don't... So any criticism I have of it, I will fall back when I still think it's very good. It does a lot of really good things, mostly the writing, I would say, honestly. I mean, it's very beautiful.

I think that's... I don't think it's the greatest comic book. So many people. It's the greatest comic book movie of all time.

I disagree. Well, I think it's very good. And I think it's fun. I don't think there's much depth to it, like, which people...

I mean, it's... I think I understand why a lot of people say that because this movie feels hip in the way that most of the MC movies, MCU movies, don't. So can you impact that a little bit for me in terms of what you mean about death? Because I guess I...

From my perspective, I guess I think they do a lot for Miles's journey individually, but also there's complexity and depth to his relationship, to his father, to his uncle, to Peter A Parker, or just regular Peter Parker versus Peter B Parker, that there's a lot of connections in his life that for who he becomes, and there's depth and complexity to not only his one-on-one interactions with each of them, but sort of how all of these ties that he has to people combine into one complete relationship and context that helps him become who he eventually becomes. I don't know. I don't feel... I don't...

I feel like it's one... There's gonna be characters in this movie. I don't... I don't know why they picked Spider-Man Noir or Spider-Hand to put...

Or Penny Parker for that. I liked everything with Miles and all the versions of Peter, the two versions. And Spider-Gwen's great. I love Spider-Gwen in the comic books.

And I like the relationships with Miles a lot. I just wanted more of it. I didn't need... When they got to the fifth or the fifth time they were doing the comic book origin story thing, like here's how this character became their Spider-Man.

I didn't... I got it, guys. I don't... I don't need the Spider-Man Noir.

In my... In my dimension, it's the thirties. And I love Rubik's cubes. But see, I like those three characters because while they carry a little bit of dramatic weight, they're mostly there for color and no pun intended.

They're mostly there to throw in some interesting visual distinctiveness, which I think is significant for the piece and helps emphasize visually the alternate dimension story that we have going in a way that just, hey, I'm Peter Parker from another dimension doesn't quite do in the same way. But I also think that it just adds to the milieu of the film that they don't have arcs in the way that Peter, B. Barker, or Gwen do, and they don't have arcs in the way that Miles's dad or Miles's uncle do, but they add to the texture of the world and the texture of the story. And I think that...

I mean, they don't take up that much time in terms of the story either. They are there and are present for a lot of it and throw in, yes, that's right, Peter Barker, yes, that's right, Gwen. But for the most part, they have some interesting stuff for the action scenes, but they're there for entertainment purposes, which is a worthwhile thing for a two-hour movie to do. Entertainment.

You sure? I just want to make a video list of Spider-Man villains read for 90 minutes. I mean, I would have liked any time with the villains that make them people or characters. I mean, they make pins a character.

Lid is a doc-oxic character. I mean, we get motivation for Kingpin, the broadest of motivation. And some broad motivation? He loses his family and wants to get them back.

And that is what we got. That is the motivation. There is nothing. There is no time.

We don't see him spend any time with his family prior to that one scene where we get. I don't know. For a movie that is supposed to be, my question, do you think this is like, do they assume knowledge of some of these characters? Like Kingpin and Spider-Man, I think most people lose Spider-Man is, but like, you know, anyone that's not just Peter Parker.

Do they assume some people have knowledge of that already? No, I think they assume familiarity with names and presences to some extent, but I don't think they assume familiarity with history. So when they throw Kingpin out there, I don't think they expect you to know that his wife is Vanessa or what his history with the character is. But what I like about the film is I think it works on multiple levels that if you are somebody like you and I who are steeped in Spider-Man lore, you know kind of the baggage that comes with Kingpin.

And even if you're somebody who's just seen the movies or is more generally aware of the character, you probably have some sense of who he is. But if you've never seen a Spider-Man thing before or just sort of know him from pop culture osmosis, you see this hulking brute who is banging his fist on the table of scientists and you get an immediate sense for who he is and what he's about. Even if you don't know his extensive history. Again, I think that was one of the things that the film does well is putting out these characters that work at multiple levels.

That if you love Spider-Man and know everything about Spider-Man, there's little easter eggs and layers to appreciate. But if you're somebody who's fairly new or meaning many of these characters for the first time, they get introductions and fit into certain molds or familiar rhythms that make it easy to recognize where they fit into the story. I know so many people criticize MCU movies for having no villains, you know, having bad villains or meaningless villains for the most part, you know, for the longest time it was Loki and no one else. Everyone talks about the good villain.

I mean, I disagree mostly with that criticism, but I understood it. This movie doesn't do anything different, but no one complains about it. I like Kingpin. I think Kingpin is a great villain.

I like the Lady Doc Ock. I like the weird, I don't know what Scorpia they used because he doesn't have half of his limbs. He's like a torso and a spider body and I don't, so I'm not familiar with that version of Scorpia. He's pretty cool.

He looks cool. At least there's nothing really else there to him. He's just a mercenary. I mean, that's how long, okay, I'm asking you how long before you realize that the uncle was the prowler.

What's the answer? I guess. Yeah, we're full spoilers. One of the movies has been offered like three months.

So yeah, they're very little doubt, but yes, full spoilers, obviously, yes, yes, yes, yes. So I did not realize, I guess this was the weird thing. I assumed that Miles's uncle was the prowler because I knew that from prior adaptations, but I didn't realize that the purple zooming guy was the prowler in the movie. So I'm probably a bad test case for this.

I don't know. I don't think it was trying to be like, I don't know if it was supposed to be a twist or not. We got you. I think it was.

I think it was. He goes, I, yeah. Well, how do you know about this place? I did some engineering work down here in the sewer.

What do you do when they're feeding on the in the sewers that lead to the Macguffin space time? I mean, I think they make it pretty clear that he's into some shady stuff that's probably affiliated with with bad guys, but I didn't necessarily think they they made it super obvious if you didn't know going in that he was the prowler, like there's a lot of ways he could be involved with the game then that wouldn't end up being a cave mercenary. Now granted, the law of preservation of characters suggests that if you have the character in a comic book, they have to become a superhero or super villain at some point, but that fact not the same. Right.

Where's that law? I assume it is written in the the annals where Jimmy Olsen has to like get and lose superpowers every every week or so. You know, I don't know if you know that the the fun fact about Jimmy Olsen, the fun fact about Jimmy Olsen, him and Harley Quinn, they share a similarity in that they originate on the TV show. They both originated in other places and then came to the comics later.

Jimmy Olsen was originally on the radio show for Superman and then he was brought into the comic books. Much like Harley Quinn was in the animated series and brought into the comic books, which not many people. I believe there's a TV trope term for that called Canon Immigrants. It's interesting to me how people turn into the Spider-Verse story, start in sort of one pocket of the universe and move to another.

Yeah. I mean, like that is that is what the Spider-Verse like there are multiple Spider-Verse comics at this point. They're what now they're I don't know if they've wrapped up the most recent one or not. It has been running for a while.

I mostly ignore them because I have no connection to 2019's Peter Parker in in Marvel comics, but it's just fine. That's nothing to do with me. I mean, with them, it's really me. It's a me thing.

I think I've outgrown him maybe or the fact that I'm gonna bring up him selling his soul in the fister like a thousand times before my life ends. But I don't know it's the maybe I just I when I say it's hip, I mean, like it has hip-hop and pop music in it and it's very colorful and bright in the ways that even the MCU, which is generally much brighter than let's say most until like I hear Aquaman's very colorful, but I've seen it. I'll say it's bad. Have you seen Aquaman?

I'm a little DC extended universe scar at this point. Yeah, it wasn't exactly racing to the theater to see what we've been referring to as Aquaman's undersea breakdown. I've heard that it's not good, but I don't I don't know I haven't seen it myself, but they've seen movies are generally brighter, but are not they're not like this colorful. They're certainly not as colorful as this movie.

And I think that's the other and obviously there are people of color in the movie, which I think is another thing that is, I don't know, attractive to, I don't know, certainly the type of people I follow on Twitter, they could give a single crap about Tom Holland's Peter Parker, but they watch this and they go, oh, this is new and interesting because it's Miles. Miles Miles has a Afro-Latino person of color as Spider-Man, which is I think, I don't know, it feels like anyone could be behind the mask. It seems like it's one of the tenets of the film is that you don't have to be, you don't have to look like Peter Parker and you can still be Spider-Man. I agree with that.

I think one of the points of the film is to emphasize that it's more of the character of the person who's donning the mask than what they look like or where they come from. But at this time, I mean, I think that is a distinguishing feature of the film. I'm somebody who who loves Spider-Man homecoming and thinks, you know, despite having grown up with different actors playing the role, Tom Holland feels the most like Spider-Man to me, that he have the live-action actors. But at the same time, it's very interesting getting to see a story from a different perspective.

I don't mean that just in terms of Miles, in terms of the perspective that somebody who grows up where Miles grows up, what he brings to the role of Spider-Man or the mantle of Spider-Man through that, the different challenges that he faces than what Peter Parker would face. It's not just, okay, hey, we've changed the name and changed the heritage of this character, where Miles comes from is an integral part of this movie, and that changes the point of view in a way that distinguishes it from, as the movie itself chokes about, the scads and scads of other Spider-Man stories we've gotten over the years. Now, obviously, I'm sure it overlaps with the comic book, Miles, to some extent, but at least on the big screen and to a certain extent, the small screen, this is a different take on Spider-Man, not just because of who's behind it, but because of that perspective, it is suffused through the film from beginning to end. Yeah, I mean, I support that idea being in a movie that's accessible to a lot of people.

I don't know, I just feel like I am not, I'm an edge case, I am a person who's read lots of Spider-Man comics, and that message doesn't mean, yeah, I agree, it can be anyone behind the mask, and it has been many times in comic books, Miles, Miles, as a character, has existed for a long time now in the comics, certainly not as long as Peter Parker has, and I've read a lot of Spider-Man, I've read a lot of these books, and it's not a big deal to me. Is that, you think it is a big deal to a lot of people, you think, this is like, wow, it's Spider-Man, it's not Peter, it's a black kid. I read the message of the film in many ways to be a preemptive strike against the people who would say, and I think there's a lot of them out there, unfortunately, that this is not Peter Parker, and so this isn't a real Spider-Man movie. I think all you have to do is look at the backlash from when they were doing casting notices for the amazing Spider-Man, and there was a lot of talk about, hey, Donald Glover should be Spider-Man in this film, and there was a pretty massive pushback to it, now granted, that was some time ago, it wasn't a long, long time ago, and maybe things have progressed since that, and Miles has been into the general ether of comic book fandom since that point, but I mean, and there were, you'll know more about this than I knew Robbie, but my understanding is at least that there was a lot of pushback to Miles taking over for Peter Barker in the Ultimate Universe as well, but there was some disdain of him as a pretender to the throne.

So I mean, I think it is a big deal to people, I think it's a big deal to have Spider-Man represented in this way for the first time in a major motion picture, I think it's a big deal to have this perspective put into a Spider-Man story in a broader popular audience for it, and I think all you have to do is look at responses to things like comic book movies like Black Panther and Wonder Woman to say there's been an unmet need in the film community and in for at least comic book stories, to where there's a lot of people who this is meaningful to them that they're Spider-Man, Spider-Man, who looks like them, who comes from places that they come from, who's experienced things that they have experienced, is as valid and vibrant and true as Spider-Man as any other, at the end of the day I do think that's a big deal, and I can understand how it may not be a big deal when, you know, comic books to your point by their very nature have had alternate universe stories for a long time, and you can get pretty used to the idea that yeah, there's a million different versions of these characters, and it's not the first time that the Spider-Man franchise has done this sort of thing, it's definitely not the first time that comic books have done it, but I think beyond folks like you and I who are perhaps a little jaded at how much we've seen alternate takes on these characters, there is something meaningful by having an Afro-Latino Spider-Man and beyond that making it specific to that community and to his specific challenges taking on that mantle. And I think that's ultimately my problem, it's not really a problem, my complaint is I want more Miles, I want, I don't care about, like the current Miles, just Spider-Man, Adject to the Spider-Man as the current Miles and Miles comic book, it's an odd title, you're very funny, Andrew. It's great, I recommend the last one as well, because now he is in the current comic books, he is just in the normal 616 universe, the ultimate universe exploded, or whatever you wanted, and they poured it over like the four ultimate characters that were, that they thought were worthwhile, they came over and then everyone else has gone forever until they knew them. No, more other characters.

Until they knew them, they'll come, if, at any point, they go, oh, we want the ultimate Jean Grey, they'll bring her over, it doesn't matter, but there's enough Marvel characters, so the general 616. I think the ones off the top I had are Miles and the Evil Reed Richards, I think, are the two off the top I had are currently being used a lot in the normal 616, versus any other character from the ultimate universe, but I don't, like, I'd rather just be a Miles movie where he doesn't, I don't know why, like, where they just don't have the dimension hopping and don't have the, hey, look at, isn't this strange Spider, I don't know, it's all nit-picking nerdy stuff, and I understand that, but it doesn't change the fact that, like, I can't just have a Miles movie, I just want Miles to not have to, I don't need Miles to have to become Spider-Man, have to see the manga's Spider-girl with a mech, I don't, like, it's cute, even though my wife hated the little Spider, because she hates it. Why does she hate the Spider? She hates the Spider.

She hates the Spider. In general. The Spider-bot or the little actual Spider-bot? Oh, okay.

She's okay with Spider-Meckus. Yeah, the mech's fine, she's like, the moment that the Spider came out, the first time we saw the little tiny actual Spider, she was like, ew, no, she didn't like that, which I understand, I'm not a fan of actual Spiders in general either. I mean, I'm sympathetic, I'm not necessarily the biggest fan in the world, but when you go see a movie called Spider-Man, I feel like there's a certain level of assumption of the risk of seeing Spider-Man. I know, she understands, it's not a deal, but it is, it is, I don't know, I feel like it is half-measures, I guess that's what they wanted though, they wanted a way to transition people into, look, there's all these different Spider-men, there's so many, there's Spider-women and Spider-whatever, they're all, there's Gwen Stacy, although I don't, I don't, that's, I think there's a little bit, something is lost there as well from Gwen, because I, there's no mention of Gwen Stacy, the normal- She is Gwen, right?

Yeah, that is Gwen Stacy, that is- Okay, yeah. That is absolutely a different Gwen Stacy that turned, becomes Spider-woman, like they say in the movie. I feel like by not including, like that's why I feel like Spider-Man, such a cool character in comic books is because we have that knowledge of like Spider-Man was just a girlfriend that got killed, you know, by the Green Goblin, and like, and she wasn't, she was a character, like she was a, barely a character, she was like, she was there to give Spider-Man something to care about, and a lot of, and she's not an exception, most, there's a lot of characters like that, especially 70s comic books, but the fact that the, like the fact that she is now the main character of a comic book and she carries it and she's awesome, I feel like having that knowledge makes it a little bit more impactful and makes it, I don't know maybe that's just implicit in the fact, yeah, I'm, I'm a, I am Spider-woman in my universe and I can be, you know, I mean, I guess I'd say two things, one, I feel like they define Gwen Stacy for the purposes of the film in the film, like you, you, again, once again, people like us who have the background, there is some impact there, knowing that there is a subversion or a correction from how Gwen was treated in the previous comic books, but I don't think that knowledge is essential to appreciate Gwen in this movie, that she is her own character, and I think what I kind of like about is you could change her name, you could make her, you know, I don't know, I'm bad at coming up with names, but she could be Regina Fillmore and Spider-Woman, and it wouldn't make a difference, because it's about her character in the film that independent of Gwen Stacy's broader history in the Spider community, again, that's a bonus for people like us. And at the same time, it's, it's not her movie, there will be her movie, but she has a fully fledged arc here.

Do you think there's more? I believe there's been explicit talk, that there's going to be a Gwen Stacy, a Spider-Gwen spinoff movie. I may be pulling that out of my mind, but I think that's been discussed or disseminated in the public. I have not heard any other side, I don't know.

I'd say it. Yeah. That's the thing is, I feel like this would be such a great introduction to all of these characters, and I know that there are a lot of Spider-Men and Spider-Women and Spider-Annals in this movie, but it's very much Miles's story. He interacts with these people, but everyone from Peter B.

Parker to Gwen to Dad to the prowler in service of the story of Miles figuring out who he is and figuring what it means to be Spider-Man. I like it as a Miles story. As somebody who has seen at least two other renditions of Peter Parker going into the Spider-Verse, I feel like it is more focused on him and less on being like, hey, look at the other wacky, crazy Spider-People that you're going to run into, then a lot of the other attempts of this kind of story have been. I want to talk about how this movie looks, Andrew.

Let's do it. I assume nothing but good things. Double Films of Love from Robbie. I mean, I think it's undeniably a beautiful film.

I'd yet to see someone say, oh, it doesn't look good, because if anything, it looks great. It's colorful and dynamic, and it's just to frame the action and emotional scenes equally well. I think one, and this is another thing that I thought of at the time when I was watching it, or even right after I thought, well, man, that thing is stunning. It's so beautiful.

So rich in color, which is a thing that I'm glad it does, because God forbid, we have comic book movies that have color in them, like colors other than like muted greens and blues and orange. Gunmetal or go home. It's the color of Superman's suit. That's all the color we get.

We get that color and gray. Those are your choices. So when I was watching it, it just kind of, it just washes over you, and it's hard to even, I don't think I saw, I've only seen the movie once, and I'll watch it again when it comes out on a video or digital download or whatever, whatever format, when it comes out for the Victrola. Yeah, exactly.

When I run it through iTunes or YouTube or whatever, but I don't think I absorbed every detail. I don't think anyone could. It's just, it's kind of overwhelming because it's just, it's just a wash in this spectrum. And I, I, it's kind of a thing that sprung on me over time as I thought more about the movie, and as we've been telling you want to do a podcast about this, and I was like, okay, and I thought about the visuals, and you know, you read reviews, everyone is glowing about the visuals, and it, and they talk about how it's captured comic books in a way that nothing else ever has on the big screen, captured the visuals style of comic books.

And you know, they use, they, they do not shy away from that, you know, using panel transitions and palettes and, you know, various comic book effects that have been utilized over the years throughout the whole film for every, in all kinds of situations, during action scenes, during transitions, during like, like even just kind of as background flavor, not necessarily even, even at like meaningful use, it's still just there to kind of present this comic book world that we're entering. And the more I thought of it, I don't know, have you ever watched a motion comic, Andrew? I watched the motion comic for, I think, the first installment of Watchmen. That's the most, by far, the most popular one, and I, like, I kept coming back to that thought.

And like, motion comics are awful. They're terrible. No one should watch them. They should not exist.

I don't know why people make them, and I think they're, I mean, you still see them at time, and you still see people like, do it on their own time, like they just go, I like this comic, so I'm gonna make a motion comic out of it, and like, it is, I don't, I despise motion comics, because they're not, the whole point of comic books is you're communicating motion without the motion, like the art itself is communicating what you, if the art itself is not doing a good job, then that's not, I don't, motion, a motion comic is not gonna fix that problem. And the motion comic all turns into his bad animation, which is a lot of people, that's, I quote from someone, I don't remember who. And Mike, I don't know, like, I don't know, I don't think it's necessarily bad that the movie use all these motifs from comic books to help the animation, but at the end of the day, the comic book purist inside of me goes, why can't we just let comic books be comic books and animation, the animation, why do we have to make them that, we have to mix them together and try and use that storytelling, I don't know, and that's, again, that is, again, a minute nerdy nitpicky thing, but it is, I've seen so many times, like, so many times people go like, oh yeah, it looks like a comic book, I'm like, no, it doesn't, it doesn't look like a comic book. That's what I'm saying.

That's what I think the defensive it is, is that it's not imitating a comic book, it's not doing the motion comic thing, and just saying, hey, let's take this pre-existing idea and speck, speckles some, speckles the word I'm looking for there, speckles some kind of gimmick onto it, it's using the tropes of comic book storytelling visually to a inform the style of the film, which makes it distinctive from the scads of other Spider-Man stories that have existed in lots of different media, but it also integrates it into what the film is doing dramatically at times. I think one of the best sequences in the film is when Spider-Man, or pardon me, Miles, to be a little more specific with a lot of Spider-Man. When Miles first gets his powers, like, is bitten by the spider and is realizing that, oh my God, these things are happening to me. The way they use the, I'm not sure what the thought bubble is the wrong term, but the little boxes to indicate this inner monologue, times when they use the onomatopoeia clouds, when he's scaling buildings or things like that, it adds texture and distinctiveness to the transformation that he has gone through something and is now changed by.

What I liked about the visual side was, yes, it was a feast for the eyes, almost all times. I felt like you did. There were definitely times when it was almost overwhelming, especially in that final fight. We've just got tons and tons of stuff swirling all around.

There's a lot to take in there. But at the same time, the reason it's using a lot of these techniques is to, hey, just give it that flavor, to make it distinctive, but to also use them to, in a three-dimensional kinetic medium, to help convey the story, which is what I appreciate about it. It's not just adopting comic books, it's integrating comic books and the visual style in a way that I don't think skimps on its abilities as animation, and I don't think it's a disservice to any of the visual techniques that they're borrowing from and translating into a different medium. Do you think it's repeatable?

I think it's repeatable for this franchise. I think that if other people start doing it, it will seem like a pale imitation, but I think this is just how Myles Morales's universe works. I think there's no reason you can't use these same kinds of tropes, visual tropes for different stories in the same way that you can use them for different stories in print comic books. See, they won't have the novelty, obviously, but you don't need the novelty.

That's what I'm saying is it's not just the novelty, it's not just the gimmick, it's functional, both to the visual style and to the storytelling. I don't, I feel like if I went to see, let's say there's a spider, a sequel to this, I don't know if it's going to be, or if they make two, they do another Miles movie and then a Spider Win movie, regardless, if I saw them using those same visual tricks again, I don't know if they would mean the same, I don't, I went, oh, that's interesting. They used narration, narration boxes, if you want to, that's, it's very, you know, there's not a fancy name for the little square or rectangles of thought that's just narration boxes, certainly. Makes sense.

Yeah, very simple. And that's just the one time I've seen, yeah, it's great. If I start seeing a second or third or fourth movie, the languages of film animation and languages of comic books are different and they are built for those, for the, for those mediums. And I don't think, I think it's neat to see that stuff, but I don't think it added any depth to the movie.

I think it's just a gimmick of visual tricks that are nice for this one movie. I don't know if I see them again and again and again, which is what's going to happen, I assume, because if some works, some gets attention and gets lots of, I assume they will do it again and again and again. I don't know if I'm, I'm certainly don't think I'm going to go, oh, I, great. Another, another short thought explosion of, oh, no, or something, whatever, you know, that they use for comic effect multiple times in the film and sometimes dramatic, even.

I don't, what does that communicate that a well animated facial expression does? And if I, what does it add? Does it, if I see it for the fourth or fifth or sixth time, why is it there? If it's not novel anymore, I don't need to know that he's alarmed.

I can look at his face and see he's alarmed. I mean, it's a problem comic books sometimes too, but it, and that's the thing like, it's very, it is also very, it is also very kind of very, it's the strangest thing to me also is that, and I think, I think honestly adds to the appeal of this film, is that it's sealing a lot of these things from old comic books. Like, the, the, the, a lot of the visual motifs they take from comics are from Silver Age comic books. People won't use, like, there's not any, like, if people use effects, which they certainly still do, it's generally much more nuanced now, usually intricately crafted.

They don't use just kind of cookie cutter bam pals. And I think that probably adds to visual flavor of the film because the rest of it feels so new and colorful and then you have this kind of old Silver Age aesthetic from comic books laid over top of it. I don't, I don't know if I'm going to, do you think it's still going to have the same effect the fifth time in? Well, if nothing else, it just gives the film, in the book of the film, the aesthetic distinctive particular flavor.

I mean, there's scabs and scabs of animated films that come out. And, you know, there's some similarities and differences between them, but in the same way that, you know, when Matt Graining draws a human figure, it's got a distinctive style relative to, you know, Seth McFarland or anybody else drawing a human figure, there's a distinctive look to it. I appreciate the fact that the film has a distinctive aesthetic, and I'm not just watching a Pixar film that happens to be about Spider-Man, or I'm not just watching a DreamWorks film that happens to be about Spider-Man, there's a unique style that applies when you're playing in this sandbox. And I trust, given how creative the use of some of the storytelling tropes was in this particular outing that they can do it again, if they can find new places to take it and new ways to use those things.

But even if they don't, even if it never evolves from here, it may not be novel to me, but I appreciate that this corner of the Marvel universe has its own distinct look. And that's just how characters look when they're there. I'm going to nitpick some things about powers, Andrew. What's here?

The Kingpin is just a man. He would be in your universe. No, it doesn't. No, do not.

I don't want to hear it. There's, he's a very big, strong man. He has Miles Morales is like Superman compared to the Kingpin. I don't like, I know it is a very powerful dynamic between the two because Miles is a small figure compared to this massive hulking Kingpin guy, but Miles, I know the, I know the, I, if I, my strongest person, honestly, it's that final action sequence is incoherent.

I don't know what's happening. Any time, I mean, I think some of that's intentional because I have all the, my guffin went off and everything's getting sucked into a black hole or something. I don't know. I think it's intentionally disorienting because Miles is disoriented and the characters are disoriented.

But again, I, any fight between Miles and the Kingpin would be overly, like, this is me putting in my comic book, I voice that I'm, well, actually Miles would not have any problem fighting the Kingpin. The only reason he was able to tell Peter in the beginning is because Peter was awfully terribly wounded, but he's just a dude and Miles, like, can pick up cars with loud effort. Like, I don't, it's not, I know it's, I know, I know that it's just that I'm trying to communicate his struggle and make it dramatic, but I just, because it's kind of like, okay, I know he's gonna win. Just let's, let's just get this.

What's, I mean, maybe in this universe, Kingpin took some abortive super soldier serum and made him super strong. Like, there's, it's comics. There's a million ways that he could have gotten strong for this, you know, day and a half or whatever it is. It's, this Kingpin doesn't have to be other Kingpins.

In the same way that this Spider-Man doesn't have to be other Spider-Man. Adaptations are allowed to set their own rules and craft characters and distill them to what's needed for the particular stories that they're telling. If anything, I think that's a laudable impulse in any filmmaker, any storyteller, and a good adaptation does that. And that's, I don't, I, I, I totally understand walking into a film and saying, hey, that's not my Spock.

And that's not my, you know, so forth and so. I'm like, I get it. I have 100% had that feeling. And I don't want to diminish anybody who has connections to particular characters and you see a fun house mirror version of them and they're not recognizable.

So you and it can dampen your enjoyment of a film or a television show or anything. But at the same time, I, I try to let go of that. I try to let an individual story or movie that I'm watching be its own thing and craft recognizable characters adapt them into what it needs them to do, adapt them in what it needs them to be, to tell the story it wants to tell. And I, I, when I feel that way, I feel like the fault is in me and not in the show, if that makes sense.

Again, I don't necessarily, again, I think this movie is very good. I think ultimately does, can not tell the story of my, like, you know, I think that thematically and tonally it does everything well and good. It's, it's just when I connect to, when I watch superhero movies, and even when I read superhero comics, even the appeal to me a lot of the time, when I'm seeing, especially when you are, when the title of the movie is into the spider verse. And look, look at all these different versions of Spider-Man.

Look at them. They're, they're all weird and strange and different and not the one we expect. The one we know dies five minutes into the movie. And the movie is giving us all these different versions of Spider-Man and is pulling from all these different universes from the multiverse.

And that is, that is a, I don't know, it is a thing that I used to love about comic books, about the fact that there were so many permutations of these characters. And now I'm just very, I'm getting weary of it. I'm weary of crossovers. I'm weary of, like, literally, they're meat, like, they just use them as memes now.

Like, literally, the current Spider-Verse comic book is just full of memes about, like, someone made a joke on the internet about a Spider-Man that's just made out of spiders, and he throws spiders at people, that's his power. And so that's now a real Spider-Man in the comics. Like, that is funny, what's funny, what's to make that comic book character? So it's what you're telling me, Robin, that you've just had too much of this sort of thing, that there's, hey, there's no novelty to it, but even beyond that, it is actively exhausting for you to see this kind of story being told.

Not, I don't know about exhausting, because I don't want to say that I came out of the movie felt exhausted, but it is, it is a lot, it is a lot of stimulation. It definitely, I definitely did want to kind of afterwards just kind of chill for a bit, and maybe that's just because of old, not because of this particular movie, because any time I go to the movies nowadays, it's just like, man, it's loud. Man, there's people, man, blah, blah, blah, which is just, I'm an old man talking. Damn, kids won't get off their phones.

I actually, I mean, I don't know, draft house, I saw this, my first movie, I saw an awesome at the Alamo draft house where they kick people out of the theater for being on your phone. So, that was- Exactly, get the phone, phone to stop, when you're just- They do have the phone to stop, even though throughout the movie, they have to wait staff walking directly in front of you. So, I don't know why that's, they're like, no, you're getting on your phone, but our waiter will literally put their head right in front of you during the climax of the phone. Yeah, I will say, I found that to be ironic too, that the franchise for movies that is most virulent and most devoted to this pure experience and undisturbed experience is also the one that has wait staff constantly running around and having a visual distraction at the edge of your viewing space.

So, demands in the market, I assume. It is, it is, it is, the movie is very full of movement and action, and it is a lot to absorb all at once. But, and then I think that is a driven back to my complaints about everyone that isn't Miles or Gwen or Peter, is when you start adding in these little things that- Yeah, you're right. They add in, they're not important.

They're just, they're comic, they're comic relief a lot of the time, or they're just a chorus or background flavor to remind us. There's so many of these, there's a past Spider-Man and Spider-Man, noir and Penny Parker, there's going to be dozens of other Spider-Man out there. It is a subtle kind of world building, implying this greater, grander world of Spider-Man. I just want- And they're fun!

I don't, I'm gonna- Hey Andrew, I don't find Spider-Man noir fun. I don't find Spider-Man fun. I don't find- Penny Parker is at least interesting because of her kind of eastern comics manga influence in her. I think that's interesting and I think it does add a lot of distinct flavor.

I don't need any Looney Tunes characters in my Spider-Man movie. I don't mean a lot, but I'll take five minutes over the course of a two-hour film. And I would say that all the voice actors do an amazing job. We haven't mentioned the voice acting at all, but it's almost universally great.

But literally every time Spider-Man noir talks like, oh, that's Nicholas Cage. And every time Spider-Man talks like, oh, that's John Mulaney. Like I just, all I do is hear their voice. I don't see them as, I don't, you know, I don't, there's kind of a suspension of disbelief breaking at that point when I hear their voices because they are, Nicholas Cage certainly very well-known, but John Mulaney just has a very distinct voice.

And I just know why the cast of Spider-Man, I don't need- I don't like Spider-Man. I don't care if people hate me for- Come at me. I don't care. I don't like Spider-Man at all.

No interest. And it's- that is the thing. It's just- he's a meme. It's just calm, I like it- There's- it feels like I'm just- I'm just getting distracted.

I'm pulling away- you're pulling me away from Miles, who I want- I care about Miles and I want to see him fight Kingpin. And then I have to see, oh, look, isn't it fun? The Spider-Man has a like, cartoon hammer. Isn't that funny?

Yes, the answer is yes. I mean, again, different strokes are different folks. I don't want to cast this version. Spider-Man isn't your thing.

Spider-Man noir is not your thing. Spider-Man noir is- it's a very- like, I understand why they picked him, I guess, because of the fact that every time you cut away, you have very like, you can have those noir, like shadows and a shot, you know, they make the joke about the wind and stuff. Like, there's no wind in here. Again, it allows you to do different things visually to signify that these are characters from a different universe.

Yeah, I mean, largely, I assume that's why they picked. The the ancillary spider people is because of the fact that you can add different visual flair. I don't- I don't- like when I'm reading the spider, if I'm reading a comic book, let's say, and there are- it's a Spider-Man story, but then five different other Spider-Man show up, I'm just like- maybe it makes me an old disillusioned old comic book fan, which I generally don't want to be connected to that type of stereotype, but just give me the core guys and let them have more story and let them say you want funny lines. Why can't Miles be funnier?

Why can't Spider-Gwen have a laugh on him? That's a good line. I mean, I don't- so again, I think regardless of what you did with Miles and Peter and Gwen, these characters serve that purpose of a world building showing you that there's other Spider-Man out there, but it'd be letting the animators show up to some degree and emphasizing in an instantly recognizable, groggable way for lack of better term that these are people from different places. I don't think that's insignificant in this film.

And I also think there's nothing wrong with a little comic relief and a little bit of fun in that way. Seeing some Looney Tunes antics is enjoyable for me as somebody who likes Looney Tunes, and it's not like they overdid it, it's not like it was constant. They just had a few bits here and there, which is plenty. And for Spider-Man noir, I like The Glist Cage.

I've seen The Glist Cage in a decent number of films and other projects. I did not recognize his voice. Maybe I just wasn't primed for it. If it's the second time that I watched the movie, I 100% recognized it, but at the same time, in that first run-through, I just saw the grizzled- nothing's right in this world, not unless you make it right.

I got the grizzled- arc-type character, and then the movie had fun with it. So, I mean, if they had tried to give those characters arcs in the same way that they do for Miles and Period when, if they had tried to make them more than background characters who have the occasional entertaining bits, I might feel the same way. But I think there was a lot of moderation to this film and how those kinds of characters were used and what they were used for that made it work for me. Do you have any criticism of the film?

I would say my criticism of the film is that they signpost Miles' self-actualization moment a little bit for my taste. I didn't necessarily need that scene where he's, you know, prior to the famous, now famous, soon to be famous, what's up Danger Sequence? I didn't need to have the voiceover quotes from important people in his life. And there were a few lines of dialogue here and there where they were a little too cute with the repetition or a little too heavy-handed about what the transformation has now happened, and we wanted to let you know that directly rather than letting you just see it through Miles' actions.

That I think was probably my biggest criticism of the films. I liked the story they told. I liked Miles' trajectory. You know, there was a little bit of rushing there, but I think they do a good job of explaining how his or at least, you know, signifying how his dad's faith in him and his dad's trust in him is something that allows him to to self-actualize and become a better, more confident person and do what he needs to do and, you know, take a leap and not give up and live up to his expectations and so forth and so on.

But there were times when they really tried to hammer that point home in terms of what the characters were saying to each other that felt like a little much to me. That I could have done them dialing it back and making it a little bit more subtle in places. I mean, I would argue the entire movie is like that, in that it is not trying to be subtle. I don't think subtle is what it's aiming for.

I mean, the visuals certainly are subtle. I mean, I mean, when they when they when they when they when they certainly do sign post all that stuff, I contribute. They are I think they are trying to make all the stuff incredibly clear for the audience. Plus, I think they have an eye in this towards children.

I think this film is I'm not sure where it feels at times. It's very like they want kids to get it, you know, in a way that the MCU is not necessarily concerned with, you know, I think, you know, you watch Winter Soldier and certainly not English kids. This film, it feels like part of it is it feels like it has an eye towards a younger audience. I think that's right.

And honestly, oddly enough, just the other day, I got a similar, I guess, critique of my critique about the Legend of Korra for that reason, where I was making similar complaints about sign posting the main characters changes over the course of the show in terms of dialogue. And somebody raised the valid point that there are a number of members of the audience who are likely to be younger kids and maybe need a little bit of handling to understand what's happening. In the same way that you can't necessarily unpack that part of your brain that knows who these characters were in prior adaptations and have them feel wrong. I can't unpack the part of my brain that says, like, no, I can rationally accept that it's perfectly valid to simplify certain things or sign post certain things so that younger kids get it.

I can't help but like see those things and roll my eyes a little bit and not go like, yes, I already understood this movie. You don't need to, you know, elbow me in the ribs and say, do you get it? But again, that's a fault with me, not a fault with the movie. Disox that.

What are you talking about, Andrew? All of us are completely blameless humans. And if we don't like art, it's something wrong with the art. Don't you know?

Art is a buffet. You should be able to pick and choose exactly what you want and have it made to your specifications. I mean, that's what kind of buffets are you going to? I guess one's with omelet bars.

You're, that's a thing at sea buffets. They cost $25 at Vegas. You get your grab legs. I mean, if you're going to go to the ones you got two, that's a buffet.

I want the buffet with a prime rib. When I was a kid, and I got to pick where we went out, which restaurant we went out to on my birthday, we're in more than one occasion where I picked gold corral. So I'm perhaps not the best tastemaker when it comes to buffets. I mean, I take my metaphor with a grain of salt.

I'm not picky. I will go from the lowest, most garbage buffet to the fanciest $50 ahead buffet. I just married to someone who will not go to the golden corral and lower ilk of the buffet universe. We will only go to the very nice buffets.

So I will take them when I get them. Well, maybe there's, you can take her to another universe where golden corral is like the apotheosis of all buffets in any dimension. Yeah, I think that's, I know, it's another thing. I think it's specifically because I read a lot of comic books where I'm not impressed by, I saw a lot of books on the internet about the alternate versions of movies, and TV shows and stores that you see in the background shots over and over and over again in the movie, and they're like, isn't that funny?

Isn't that like, that's referencing this and this is referencing that and this blah, blah, blah. Every comic book on earth, it seems has their version of it. Like they, they, uh, what do they call it, Greek, Greeking. Isn't that what they, when you cover up a brand name with something else?

I'm not familiar with that term, but I like it. I saw them in Mythbusters, I think, because they, you know, they, they, when they ever, they use a brand name item, they have to relabel it with like a generic thing. And I think, yeah, I think Adam Savage called it Greeking. I'm not sure if that's right though.

I, that's what I want to say, but regardless, every comic book has that going on. Like there's always like, it's not Starbucks. It's star ducks or what, you know, whatever. That's not a good one, but you understand a lot of analogs over and over and over and over again.

And I'm going to ask you a very important question, Ravi. Okay. Have you been scarred by Mapple and MyPods and that sort of thing? That's the trick.

Yes. One is anymore. One hundred percent. I will one hundred percent.

Yes. The Simpsons are guilty as anyone. Well, I guess I'll say those things didn't blow me away. I did enjoy getting to see a tribute to Clone High in the background as a sort of in joke to Lord and Miller's history and a show that I wish was still, we've gotten enough to get a movie someday.

But I think they're Easter eggs at the end of the day. They're fun and you see them for two seconds. They didn't blow me away, but they served the purpose in an entertaining way for me. I know.

It's a minor point. It's just, I am just disenfranchised with all this. Hey, soundtrack's great. I'll say that.

Soundtracks amazing. I've listened to it multiple times after the movie. Start a riot. If I want to get energetic and do the dishes, put that on.

Start yelling, yelling at my dishwasher along with the song. As we all do from time to time. Yeah, just, you know, scaring my cats, which I think that's, again, I think that is why it's so appealing to, I think an audience that is not generally care about superhero movies at all, is because it has, it is, I think this movie, it is hip, it is, it has awesome soundtrack. It's like Black Panther.

I feel like Black Panther shares that same, that same area. And I just, I don't know, I'm not, I just, something's wrong with me. I'm not as impressed as everyone else. I mean, it's not the first movie to use popular music and it's, and it sounds like, I think it uses it very well and it uses it for purpose.

I mean, right down to Miles singing his song to help de-stress him when he's in a panic moment. And I guess it's, it sort of ties back to the use of comic book aesthetic to me. I feel like when this, the film borrows from other places, it doesn't just lick the back of them and slap them on a movie. It integrates it into what the, the movies do it.

So. There's nice things. You hate fun, Robbie. It's a problem.

I understand. It was nice singing in the same way. And I feel like his, this is the best family came out ever. And not just because it's a tough call.

No, I, I, I, this is the best. There's not even one that's, this is the best one ever because it best represents who Stanley actually was in real life because he sold crappy knockoffs of Spider-Man and then said people you can't return them. The preeminent salesman smiling and kind with a big sign right next to him. No returns.

I think it's very accurate of what Stanley as a salesman, as the pitchman for Marvel comics in the 60s and 70s was. And I think it's that is a joke that I did enjoy quite a bit. And a lot of the times he's like, he's a bus driver. He's a, you know, whatever all the other roles he's pinned in in different Marvel movies in the, in the, in the background.

I think you have what, that you have to run is pretty good in Iron Man. But this little thing goes, this is the one, the only one that, because every time, I don't know if you have this experience, every time I see a Marvel movie and Stanley shows up, everyone goes, they, they chuckle. Everyone chuckles. I don't chuckle.

Cause I hate fun as established. This time, I did chuckle. I laughed and I laughed harder than I think most people. I didn't just chuckle.

I laughed. I thought it was actually clever. It wasn't just shoe hoarding and a comic book creator into a movie. It was like, hey, that's actually funny.

That's about, I think that speaks to Stanley, the salesman, what he was. Well, I do, I do chuckle at the Stanley cameos, but I did definitely like this one here. And if nothing else, it seemed particularly when timed with, with Stan's passing, you know, the I'm going to miss in line felt particularly resonant and particularly impactful given the events and his connection to that character. But I will say if it changes your mind or if anything makes it seem worse, in the ultimate Spider-Man cartoon, Stanley plays the janitor at Peter Parker's high school and even gets an episode where he helps Peter fight the wizard.

So he's a regular presence in that. I'm not going to say it's a fine stand for me, but at least it's one instance where he's got to do a little bit more than just have his five seconds of fame. You should read Marvel Comics The Untold Story, Andrew. I will.

That's very good. That's my list. It's a very good, very good history of both Marvel Comics and more broader terms beyond just Marvel. But also, of course, obviously, a lot about Stanley in his role in comic books.

Well, it's probably fodder for another podcast, but I have mixed viewings about Stanley the person, but I kind of enjoy Stanley the Marvel mascot and I'm able to sort of separate the two in my head to Sonic's, that makes sense. I don't understand, Stanley is not Marvel, I don't, again, it is a different podcast, but there's anyone who has holds, the people who holds some kind of anger against Stanley, because he didn't, like, he didn't try and give Jack Kirby money or Steve Dico the creative rights to things. Stanley is not Marvel Comics. He worked for Marvel Comics.

He was doing a job. He, they got the same, it was a raw deal. I don't disagree. That's not Stan Lee's fault.

Every single all work was in comic books. It was done for hire. And they signed the contracts and it was probably unjust. But it's not, I don't blame Stan Lee for that.

It's not, he, when he was editing an entire line of comic books and then writing eight of them, I, yeah, he had artists go to Marvel Method where they would draw stuff on a page and then he would fill in the dialogue bubbles. But I don't go, oh, Stanley, it's not like Stanley was like putting his feet up on a desk and smoking cigars all day. He was busy. He was doing a lot of work.

I don't, it's not like he wasn't doing anything. That's another reason I would say redental story, Marvel Comics doesn't story. I feel like it just a appearance of everyone involved. It doesn't have like, there's not a villain, which is some people like to paint St.

Lee as. He's just a guy who liked, he liked, he liked attention. I don't, that's, but that's what Marvel Comics needed in the early sixties. When they became a company, DC had been a company for 30 years at the time.

They were established. Marvel was nothing. They needed someone, they needed someone to draw that attention. They needed a figure to stay in on Stan's soapbox and yell and say, here, we're the, the, the competition pay attention to us.

Well, to go back to the, the putting your feet on the desk and smoking the cigar, the one other cameo that Stanley has in, into the spider versus he gets to voice J Jonah Jameson in the last post credit scene where they go back to the 60 Spider-Man. Apparently he always wanted to do it. She's a nice little, again, five second touch. Have you, you haven't played the new Spider-Man game on for the S4?

They have, no, I have not. I assume you have it, but J Joe Jameson now hosts a podcast about, at about, about Spider-Man, about the city and you listen to it as you are swinging around the city, and it's very good. It's very, well, that's, that's, now I think of J Joe Jameson. That's one of the first things I think of it's very good.

I don't know. I, I still think of the the spider-versus is very good. I don't know. And I love Miles.

Miles is great. And I love Spider-Gwen. I don't know if I hear it. This is another little nitpicky thing.

It's the same problem I have with Batman Beyond. Don't go in on Batman Beyond Robbie. We may have ten words. Batman Beyond is a good show.

I don't disagree there. And it's like, Batman Beyond is basically Spider-Man. I don't think it's not. It might as well be Batman coaching up Spider-Man.

Yeah, exactly. It is just basically a Spider-Man show again in the future with, you know, their fake future music. I always enjoyed a lot. But it exists.

Like, Batman Beyond exists because Batman fails. Bruce Wayne fails. He doesn't succeed. And he quits because he picks up a gun and then quits and retires.

And the idea of a 45-year-old overweight single depressed Spider-Man upsets me. Like, I don't know. I want Peter Parker to have a happy life in the long run. I want him to eventually succeed as a hero.

And then he gets to marry Mary Jane and then they have kids and then crayon kids and he doesn't have to be Spider-Man anymore. And other heroes pick up the reins, even Miles. I mean, you have to have places for characters to go, Robbie. And Peter B.

Parker has a rough time of it. And you get that. But then through the course of the movie, he makes peace with the idea of having children and what needed to happen. You know, what his relationship with himself and Mary Jane could look like in another world, literally.

And you get at least the gestures that things get better for him. That's true. It does have a relatively happy, I think it is just again, is more about having to see so many. Have you ever read?

No, you haven't read it. I know you haven't. There's a comic book called Spider-Man Rain. I have not read it, but I'm aware of it.

Yeah. Because I know the details of it. It's just the Dark Knight Returns, but Spider-Man, basically. Yes.

And it's just very... Were he pulled what they only fake out in Washington that he basically gave Mary Jane cancer to the radiation? Yeah, they did that. And it was very bad.

And I don't like it at all. It's the artist's good. Carrie Andrews is a very good artist. We're not talking about him.

It's very good. It's very good. I'm not going to say it's not... I don't even think it's my top five superhero movies.

I think MCU just... I think they... That is what I want. I love the MCU.

And I think it is exactly what I want. I don't want... This is very good. And I hope that I hope for sequels.

I hope they are different just as much as this was different from other movies. I hope they pull me tricks out of the hat. For my part, I love the MCU as well. And a lot of those are among my favorite superhero movies.

But what I think the best MCU movies do and have done is take interesting characters who are introduced in some particular point in their lives and then reach some realization and then build on that and take it someplace out different. Put them in different situations, have them have to face different challenges. I really liked Into This Spider-Verse. And I love it as a story of Miles where I was figuring out who he is, both as a person and as a hero.

The way that the film is able to take those two different stories and tell them at the same time is almost masterful. And I'm excited to see where they take the character from here. I fully expect that we're going to get another Miles movie. I have reasons to think that we're going to get a Gwen movie.

And we may even get a Spider-Man 2099 movie out of this as well. But I think the folks who have have put this together, if they're still involved, I think they've shown that they know how to tell stories in this universe, stories with these characters, and stories with different kinds of characters when we're used to seeing and making it familiar to how comic book stories work, but also unique and distinctive and particular to different perspectives at the same time. So, I'm not sure where this falls in my superhero movie Pantheon. But I'll say that I enjoyed it from beginning to end, and I'm definitely hungry for more.

I don't want Spider-Man 2099. I don't know. I don't understand the appeal to any of the 2099 characters. People like Batman Beyond, so presumably they'll like Spider-Man Beyond.

Yeah. It's a different fight for another day. Yeah, you're right. Andrew, what's some stuff people can check out on the internet about from you that you've made, that you've helped make, or even?

People who want to hear more of my ramblings about Spider-Man and Batman and other superheroes can find all of my writing from everywhere across the web. Links to it on my website, which is theandrewblog.net. Three words, theandrewblog.net. You can also find me as part of Consequences of Sounds, Expanded Film and TV Coverage, and you can find me on Twitter at theandrewblog.

Thank you, Robbie, for letting me be somebody from another dimension who comes and crashes your podcast. I hope I leave it in as good a shape as I found it. There are no interdimensional in the guffins here. I don't know.

Andrew, thank you for joining me. My pleasure. Anytime. Thanks again to Andrew for joining me.

You can find me on Twitter at RobbieDorman, and the show's website is www.serophenanisist.com. You can follow the Facebook page at www.facebook.com-slash-serophenisist. If you like the show, good. You please give it a good review on Apple Podcasts, or if you listen to it, subscribe, tell your friends, all those things to help get the word out, help more people find the show, and I thank you for it.

Until next time, thanks for being a fan.