91 - Frasier S2E13-E18 (w Megan Danak)

I'm gonna be dormed in this, this is Cyril Finazos, the podcast and friends of everything. Welcome. Today, I'm joined by Megadannic to talk about some more Frasier. This batch of episodes is, sorry to say, the most disappointing yet.

We talk about the complete stupidity of Frasier, the character, the awful treatment of women in these episodes, and Ted Nansen's TV career. Despite the episodes being kind of a bummer, it was still a good time talking about them with Megan, as always, on a discussion. I'm here once again with Megan Dannic to talk about Frasier. Megan, how are you?

Doing well, how are you? I'm all right. I'm all right. Have you been denied entry to any prestigious clubs?

No, I haven't. I don't go to a lot of club, I'm not a club person for the most part. Yeah, me either. I was just curious.

Yeah, there's, I, we'll get there. That's a kind of thoughts. I have thoughts about that episode. This is our, the next hi guys out there in Radio Land.

This is our next Frasier episode. We're doing the third batch of episodes in season two, starting with retirement is murder. It's not really, it's vaguely a mystery. But not really.

It kind of, yeah, the mystery doesn't seem like it should have been that hard to figure out. No, it is, it is, it is Marty, trying to solve it in one case that he never the weeping, lotus murder case. And he is still trying to solve it. They've mentioned it before, on previous episodes, which is a little bit of continuity that I do appreciate.

And this is him still trying to solve it. And then it gets solved through that kind of help of Frasier. Not really, it's accidentally Frasier solves it, or actually, Frasier accidentally helps Marty. It's not, I don't, I, I don't know if maybe it was just my move when I was watching these episodes.

I don't know. I don't think Frasier is this stupid. I don't know if any of them are this stupid though. I'm sorry.

I have like the great reveal of the who did it to me. I was like, I feel like that should have been something that was taken into consideration years ago. Although I don't know, it's because, I mean, spoiler alert for the show that came out many decades ago. The guy that did it was a cop.

So I don't know if it's like, it seems like that would have been a lot more of an interesting discussion because, you know, maybe there was a cover up or maybe it's the kind of thing that, you know, there was more at play in the police department. But it was basically just like, we never thought of that guy. And that seems a bit silly of me. So yeah, I don't think Frasier is that dumb.

But like, I sort of feel like the Seattle police department shouldn't be that dumb either. Yeah, I don't try and underestimate the inability of police to like look past their own noses. So I'm not, I, it's okay. It's like, and up into the point, I think I think this episode is not, I want to say it's great up into the point where Fraser literally says I think a monkey did it.

But I want to say it's not bad. I think it's fine. I think it's fine. I think it works well enough.

And I think it works well enough in like, in a kind of relationship episode between Fraser and Marty. And then Frasier says that like, it's not joking. It's not some, this is not an attempt at him to try and cover up for him helping us while they're, it is him literally saying, I think a monkey killed this woman. And I, I understand that Fraser is not a police detective.

Like Marty was, doesn't have years of experience of trying to solve crime. But Frasier is a, is a smart guy. You don't have he has PhD is proud dad points out. Exactly.

He went to college and I understand that he in 1995, there were many less police procedurals available to watch. But he still had like Colombo and a lot of order had started by then, hadn't it? Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely.

Exactly. I anyone who spends, how could he possibly think a monkey did it? A trained monkey killed this poor woman, a trained monkey, Frasier, Frasier, Frasier. I know it's a woman who is also a prostitute and the cop that did it worked on vice.

So, yeah. Yeah. This, this, these series of episodes is not too necessarily great for women in general. I feel like, and, and like, I could, I can get past the fact that this episode isn't like trying to tackle like, you know, sex workers rights or how or societal views of that.

I understand Frasier is still the end of the day, a sitcom. It is not going to do anything deep. But when it makes its central character, the literally dude is the name of the show and makes me need it. Like, I can, he can be short-sighted.

He can be, he can be, has plenty of flaws. But when he's just colossally stupid for the benefit of basically a five minute joke, because after the bit where he emits, he thinks a monkey did it. It is just monkey jokes. It is five minutes of monkey jokes.

And I don't need, I don't need, I don't, I would want something a little better, a little better than the monkey jokes. Well, the shame of it is that leading up to that, it was, it was kind of a good episode because like you said, it was more about the relationship building. You know, you have Frasier getting the tickets to the Sonic's game and the jokes that, you know, the fish out of water, look at these, him and Niles, because of course, Niles has to go to that game, you know, listening to his West Side Story score for some reason while he's watching the basketball game, which was just, I don't understand, but it was funny. Um, but yeah, like, you know, like making an effort to try and basically get Marty out of the house and stop obsessing about this case from years ago.

And that was fun. Yeah, I, you know, I like that. I, I do have one, I kind of like idea that this murder doesn't get solved. I'd rather, I think I feel like I'd rather not never get solved.

Because I think that's more, like the murder doesn't matter because they're not, they're just plot devices. It's more, I, it's, I think it's more interesting for Marty to not solve the murder. I think that's a more interesting character for me is to, for this thing to be hanging over him and him to get over it in the fact that, okay, I never solved it and have to live with it. I think that's more interesting to me than solving it.

And then, oh, and then, ah-ha, Fraser fix it's a monkey. He's an idiot. But also I do the sonics that immediately date this episode because songs don't exist anymore. And I do like, I don't, West Side Story, why, while you're watching it.

That's what games while you're there are any sporting event where you're there is interesting enough. Things are happening. There's stuff going on all the time. Um, I even, I, this is a question.

Did Marty, when they were children, when Marty was a cop and they were, he was raising Niles and Fraser, did he have just pictures of corpses around the house? I don't know. I, I kind of feel like probably not. Like, I think he, I mean, he doesn't, he is retired.

So he likely would have left that at work would be my suspicion. Um, and then now that he's retired, you know, the cold case box, which still probably shouldn't be at the house, but there it was, again, a testament to the fine fine, um, Seattle police department. But, um, yeah, if I'm, if I'm Fraser, I know they've covered this in previous episodes, I'm sure they will cover it again, but I'm putting my foot down. No pictures of murder victims on Mikey tables, no kitchen table.

You don't have court pictures of dead people murder victims on, no, I don't want to see bullet entry. I don't want any, I don't want true crime on my kitchen table. I don't want my kitchen table to be rotten.com. Exactly.

I would put my foot down. I'm like, dad here, I will buy you a desk and you can have everything, all your murders on that desk, but do not bring them out into the living area. I don't want a random guest walking in, should not be able to see murder as they walk through the living room. Yeah, you know, that true crime sure is popular.

That's how, yeah, don't get me started. Oh, I know, I won't because I will walk that path right here because I am not, I am one of the few people I know who's not like, well, my favorite murder, which I mean, you know, no offense to those to them or anything else. I don't care. You can not.

Come on. I don't care. I don't care. Look, I know there's thousands of true crime podcasts and they're all very popular.

I don't care. I don't want to listen to them. I find them terrible. They're focusing on the worst of humanity and people love them because they're inherently mysterious.

But yeah, there's probably a mystery that does not involve death. I agree. I agree. Give me a good cult story.

I'm okay with that. I'm okay with like Ponzi schemes, you know, and those are no less terrible, but you know, like, I was talking to someone, they're like, oh, I've been watching the Ted Bundy, and I'm like, stop right there. I do not need I fully like, and I think because too, I'm a big baby cat. So I'll internalize all that stuff.

Like, I remember when I made the decision to go to University of Florida. It doesn't matter that the whole serial killer thing happened, you know, a good decade before that. It was still, you know, taking away in the back of your mind to know that, you know, like, hey, my friend lives in the same apartment complex where he killed these people. That stuff doesn't make me, I'm not interested in it because, frankly, I don't have the stomach for it.

And I don't see why we have to like, I don't know, I don't it's cheap is the answer. It's easy. Those cold cases are just sitting out there and you don't need to do much to them to make them stories. Well, in some cases, they're not even cold, though.

We're going way off the rails. We can talk about anything we want. Well, like, I mean, I believe, for example, in the example of Ted Bundy, like one of his victims survived, right? Like, wasn't that a thing?

One of the, like, there was a woman who he attacked and she got out of there, like that, you know, the fact that there's still people, and there are still people, you know, living who are impacted by everything that happened. And I don't know to what extent they talked to any family members or anything like that. I mean, maybe they were getting to talk about it. I don't know, but I and, you know, whatever, but I just, it feels like it's pushing something to the forefront of people's interest.

I was, I was 14 once and I thought serial killers were really interesting. And now I go, Oh, they're just, like, probably mentally ill people that went on, like, basically just never got help and probably were raised terribly. And, or, or, or, I don't know, when I'll just follow this path to its completion until they literally ruin people's lives. And I don't, I don't find any of it fun.

And I don't find, I don't, after Zodiac, I think Zodiac's a great movie. I love seven. I think that's also a great movie. David Fincher has a serial killer genre, art genre, like pretty well covered.

I don't think we need to keep doing it. I don't, I, like, I want those, those people should be villains. They should not be, I don't want to sympathize with Ted Bundy. I don't care how handsome he looks.

Anything else you want to say about retirement is murder. I did think it was funny that at the end, they staged it to look like Eddie killed Stephanie. That was funny. I did like that, that the singer on that one.

Next up is fully once shame on you, filming twice dot dot dot ellipses. Fraser is an idiot again. Fraser is a moron. Yeah, he sure is.

He's so naive. I don't, I don't, I don't, you know what it is. He's not naive. Because, you know, the whole set of, okay, the whole set of this episode is that someone steals his briefcase.

And then the person who steals his briefcase calls him and acts like, you know, oh, I just, I found it, you know, I'll meet up with you and, you know, give it to you. Well, the briefcase has a spare car keys. So he sets up the time and then steals the car. So then by fortune and happenstance, um, Fraser, he's, this thief is now impersonating Fraser and, you know, had a one night stand with a woman and had arranged to meet her the next day.

So that's basically how Fraser comes face to face with Nathan Lane, who is, you know, a pretty good choice to be a flam man in the, in the mid 90s. And, you know, the thing about this is how he would be built. Okay, that's fair. I was just like, I don't know, Fraser would, I think Fraser would use the word flam man.

So that's accurate. Well, and Nathan Lane would play a flam man. Let's be real. So the thing is, I think, you know, of course they're having their, their confrontation moment, right?

And I think the root of it is that Fraser is, has such a big ego that he truly thinks that using his psychiatry superpowers, you know, he'll be able to talk to this guy and somehow, of course, correct this, you know, schmuck who has outsmarted him now, you know, twice, and then proceeds to do it a third time by bringing the cops in and making it seem like Fraser is the fake Frazier and should be arrested. But I don't know if it's stupidity so much, again, is his just ego. Like, like, once he starts talking to the guy and the guy starts talking about, you know, oh, no, I should turn myself in, you know, what, what, you know, I think he thinks there's something there that like, you know, he'll end up like on the front page of the newspaper if he can somehow talk this guy around. I don't mind.

I think the last scene of the episode is good, because it's tells the grammar and Nathan Lane bouncing off each other. And they're both, you know, very talented and they feel like it's like very good to meet a character. And Nathan Lane, Nathan Lane is basically is semi-famous at this point. This is post Tony Awards.

This is post Lion King. So he's a known, he's a known person in 1995. Oh, yeah. Was the bird cage out?

It was probably out. Like, I don't remember one next time. I don't like the bird cage, but I will tell you that it came out in 1986. Oh, okay.

Okay. I mean, it was, it was a very popular movie. It was very popular. You are correct.

I still don't, I don't like it. But Nathan Lane and Kelsey grammar haven't like just having fun together, playing and, you know, doing this dumb, like, bit where you're, all everyone knows that Phil is going to con Fraser again. Like, it's, I think I was just waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm like, when is something, I then the police show up in a rest ratio.

It's more, it's getting to that point is where I, they make him so dumb to make the plot work. Yeah. Like, okay, he gets his briefcase. Okay.

That can happen. Anyone. That's not like, he just left his briefcase somewhere and it got stolen. That's, that's fine.

But the bit where he gets a call, yeah, I had your briefcase, meet me here. I'm gonna bring any dry, I'm gonna drive my car to the place where the man who stole my briefcase has the keys. Like, hey, maybe come with other, like, stay with your car. Maybe like, I, is he never met a person before?

Like, Fraser is not that stupid. Like, I guess they didn't have Craigslist deals to navigate back then. But even, yeah, like, meet at a third party location, bring back up. Don't leave your stuff behind.

It's not like, complicated. Even in my, I, Fraser is not, is he that stupid, that naive, his dad's a cop. His dad, what did Marty, I would think Marty would be drumming this in a freezer, but since he was like, three years old, about not falling for whatever scam. Marty, I would think would say everything is a scam.

I think Fraser would be paranoid about it, wouldn't he? I don't know. I feel like too that Marty, you know, has, I mean, from what we've gleaned, Fraser and Niles have been Fraser and Niles, like, for the long haul, you know, from the time they were children, you know, they've been who they are. And, you know, I would suspect that as a cop father, perhaps he would recognize, okay, maybe I need to teach these guys a little more in the way of being on the defensive versus taking an offensive approach.

And yeah, I mean, I had a hard time thinking that he wouldn't have prepared them to be a little bit more, or at least tried to make them a little bit more streetwise, I guess, although, you know, maybe it just didn't take that's possible too, but yeah, I mean, it's like the final scene is great. I just the way they get there is just, it just takes up a lot of time. And I wish there was more Nathan Lane in the episode, frankly, like he's great. I would use more him more, you know, yeah, I agree, like have him reoccur multiple, have him actually show up, just not make big phone calls and have Fraser turn into an idiot whenever he talks to a woman.

I think I'm reaching a breaking point with Fraser and women. It's it's I these episodes might have pushed me to a different side of an argument or something. I do like Niles and Niles and in Ross together. It's fun.

Yes, yes. It is fun. They're pointing poking at each other is good. And it seems like I don't know, they feel like they are they're mean to each other first and then they kind of settle into like a friendly relationship of needling each other.

Yeah, and I like that because I don't think that it would that that rings true, you know, like that that would be their relationship. But I'm glad that it's more kind of like at least friendly and from a place of I respect your your ability to to using me, you know, yeah, exactly. They're both they're both they are they're cool with roasting each other, basically. Yeah, which is fine.

I don't know. Nathan Lane is very good at a comedic actor. I don't think that's that's not news. I wish he was more the episode.

I do like him. Wait, the suit doesn't fit him correctly. I appreciate that. I like the idea of a lazy him.

I'm a lazy criminal. I don't want to rob a bank. That's do much work. All good.

I think this episode is again fine. Not bad. I don't think some of the things that happen in some episodes, I think are the cop will be bad as we go. But this one I think is fine.

Yeah. Anything else you want to add? Now we can keep it moving. Next up, it's just keep on going.

You scratch my book starring Shannon Swede. So yeah, that didn't I didn't know who that was. I will admit it. I am a boring straight woman.

I did not try to, you know, watch replay Boy Magazines or watch Megan six in a max erotica. I was once a teenage boy. Well aware. She had a tweet is and was former former playmate was in a relationship with Hugh Hefner for a amount of time.

And then in a long long while still together with Gene Simmons from yes, really? They are they've been relationships since like the mid 80s and just got they've very got married this like I don't know five, six, seven years ago, something like that. Oh, that's interesting. I mean, I guess.

Okay. I don't know. I don't know. Shannon.

Shannon. Shannon. I mean, she's still pretty barely. She was in she was in Playboy and she was in a lot of B level movies.

She was also on the reality show with Gene Simmons. I don't forget what that was called. She in this, she plays a pop psychologist, you would say, I guess, inspirational person. Yeah, feel good.

Yeah, exactly. Have a rainbow is the name of her book that it starts the episode basically because Daphne likes it. And then Niles and Fraser make fun of it. And then Fraser meets her at a book signing and they start dating.

And then she asks Fraser to write the foreword for a book that he thinks is terrible. And so the the the the the gist of this episode is Fraser trying to navigate the fact that he likes likes her. And one, she's very attractive. So I don't know how much of it is I this woman is very attractive and whatever.

And then on that day that then thinking that her books are bad. Well, you know, fair enough. I mean, she's obviously she's very attractive. But I think too, they were all a little surprised.

It's like, oh, you know, like when introduced to Niles, you know, she'd read some of his his studies that he'd published. And I mean, she's not a dumb dumb. She's she's smart. Like I could see there being more than just a, you know, playboy model attraction app.

And I think at one point, when he was talking about writing the foreword that he was struggling with, because he thought the book was crap, but it had been like two weeks or something since he said he would do it. So, you know, I'm assuming they have been seeing each other a little bit more, although clearly not, you know, intimate as the ending as the ending goes. Yeah, I, so I'm just, I don't know what this show is telling me about Frasier and Women, because it feels sometimes he said sex, we have half the women on Earth, it seems, like just randomly occasionally. Yeah, we had like we'll get to the Sam Malone Cheers episode.

Yeah, yeah. And just randomly had sex with the woman, one of the women in that episode. And randomly, like they just randomly met it. That was just coincidence.

And yet in this one, he is presented with a woman and he turned like he just gets stupid. Like he just his brain turns off. And I don't know, he's a 40 year old man, roughly 40 plus, I'm assuming, which I think that, I don't know, we don't still don't get a hard age on Frasier. I don't think they want us to have a hard age on Frasier.

But at this point, he's not a 40 old virgin. He's met women before. We've seen him date women. We've seen him almost like commit to women before already in the show.

Prison. I don't care how beautiful a woman is. He's Frasier is capable of like stringing together sentences. And like he meets her at the book signing, he's like, he just like, they do that dumb cartoon, cartoon character thing.

And then yeah, it's not hard to write a forward is easy to I don't know why. If he okay, here's the thing. I'm, I agree that I think this woman is smart and knows what she's doing, this character. Like even if these books are like just a way to make money, like, yeah, I know that this is what sells.

So this is what I write. And it's, it's inoffensive and it doesn't hurt people. So it's the problem. And that's fine.

If their relationship is real, if Frasier does has a great appreciation for her other than, Oh, she's a pretty girl, and appreciates. Oh, she's actually really intelligent and we get along really well. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Then suck it up Frasier.

So just write, just write garbage. It doesn't matter. It's a forward. No one reads them anyway.

Just you write two, you write 500 words about, yeah, this is book that did this and it did that. You're who cares? You're you're a radio psychiatrist. It doesn't matter.

Just write your garbage. And I can't, this is the hill he's going to die on. I don't know. Like, I mean, in this case, it is, it does have to do with his attraction to you in relationship with a woman.

But I just, I think this is just a recurring thing with him, is that he, he takes the side, the quote unquote, noble side, but it's always in support of his own, like snobby nature or his own, like, self-importance, you know what I mean? Like at the end of the day, he is honest, which I will give him credit for, you know, like, clearly he's said along the way that he is an admirer of her work, which is not true, you know, and he comes, you know, he comes clean at the 11th hour when they're about to like, you know, have sex and he's like, look, I can't write this. I didn't like a book. It was trash.

I get it if you don't want to, you know, do this anyway. She is like overwhelmed by his honesty, which, you know, from then it's like, oh, well, this actually works out well because you were honest and she's still attracted to you. So, okay, okay. But then, like, as they continue to be honest, he sort of goes overboard and just like, trashes her previous two books because in taking the high road and saying he didn't like the book, he also, I mean, he didn't exactly say, oh, and by the way, your entire philosophy and everything that you write about is a joke, but that sort of comes to the top and then things, you know, she's like, it's on the brakes.

Yeah, tells me to get out, which, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, you should do that, yeah, get it, tell, it's just, I absolutely, I, I, I, I, I don't understand how it just, it's another, it's, I don't know if it's just one of episodes or again, I feel like sometimes I'm like in a certain mood and I just recognize these things more clearly, but I don't mind if I understand the show has to function like this, that Fraser has to be make terrible mistakes and ruin his life over and over and over again forever. It's just the way that it's presented where he's, if anything, Fraser, wouldn't he be more equipped with like, kind of social moors to, to, to understand not to just rip her book or career up? Like, it's okay, is okay to not say those things. Again, it feels like this is a, it feels in arbitrary re they pick an arbitrary reason to for him to destroy this relationship versus like him telling the truth.

And okay, I can, we can respect the fact that he goes, I'm sorry, I don't think this book is good. And I can't write the forward and good faith. And I want to say this before we have sex because I don't want that to complicate things. And like that is admirable.

But then to just trasher. Yeah, it makes me like, I don't want to wait for Fraser anymore because he's just too stupid. Yeah. And that's the same thing with the monkeys.

I'm just on the monkey murders and and the and the you're like insulting this beautiful woman that you like. Like, if you really like her and you think you have chemistry of besides the fact that she's very beautiful, why on earth would you insult her to her face or an idiot? Why are you so stupid? Shannon tweeted the monkey murders.

We now have the episode title. Yeah, I don't know. It's again, I key, it's like he has to just put out there how much smarter he is and how much like, you know, better he is because that's and I mean, she was like, you know, they were kind of trading sort of harmless barbs back and forth in that moment. Like, you know, she was like, well, the fact that she said when he talks about wine, she wanted to pull out a gun was a little bit much as well.

I don't know, it seemed like it was heading for a disaster. But yeah, it's like, just it took it too far and he really can be really stupid. Yeah, I can deal with certain levels of stupidity. And also, I think kind of webs of misunderstandings and things like that, which are like, basically what all sitcoms on earth have been are based on is just like, Oh, Fraser doesn't know this and Niles does or Niles knows the thing and certain characters, no information, others don't.

And because they can't because they don't know this, it has weird mis affirmations and and dumb arguments and stuff like that, which is totally fine. It's when people are just mean, I go, I go, I don't want this, I don't want Fraser to just be a fail because he's too mean. That's not fun. Right.

I want to like Fraser, I want to read for him, even though he is an idiot a lot of times, I still want him to root. I want him to I want to reform him. I want things to go well for him. And I don't want to root for a guy that's just a mean person for whatever reason.

Like I'm Fraser's older than me. And I'm not the smartest person on earth. I'm well aware that, you know what, I go to comic book conventions. I have, I have very strong opinions about certain comic books, more probably stronger than any person should.

However, and I see the people who made these comic books all the time, you walk past them, they're sitting at their table, they might be doing, they might be talking to someone, they might not be, they're just trying to make a living, they're selling what they're art. And I might think their art is bad, a terrible and sense to terrible messages. I walk past them, I don't, you don't need to tell people how you feel about everything you think, it's okay, it's okay for you. That's what the internet is for.

I know, exactly. It's like you don't have to tell them to their face, you don't tag people on Twitter when you think their work is bad. And you don't, if you're dating this woman, you don't have to tell her that you think her work's bad. You can just say, you can say, you know how this episode ends, you just have Fraser say, I'm sorry, I don't have enough respect for your work for us to enter to continue this relationship.

But that's not, I guess, that's not going to quote funny, so they don't do it. Yeah, I don't know. It's, and I don't know if it's just that these episodes kind of all compound on one another. Like, I'm just building up this frustration of like, Fraser, what are you doing?

What are you doing? What are you doing? And it's just over and over and over again. And it's just, I like the little, the Niles stock situation, the stock worker thing, where he's just basically lying about how his stock is the stocks are just giving Daphne a small amount of money back and forth.

So that she'll give him hugs and kisses, hugs and kisses. I like it as character. I feel like it is Niles, like I don't, I don't know. Niles is a creep sometimes, so I don't know.

It's hard to say, like certain episodes, Niles isn't a creep. It feels like it depends on who wrote the episode, I think. Where Niles is sometimes like just doing things because he likes Daphne and wants attention from her and wants to be near her. And then other times it's just like, oh, he's smelling your hair and, you know, being a creep.

And you're not, I'm like, I don't know which, which Niles is showing up. I got to wait and see. And I know, I felt like Niles wasn't doing this just because she was hugging and kissing him. I feel like I thought it was just like he wanted attention from her.

He wanted to be the person that to give her good news, basically. Yeah, I, you know, he didn't like, he said after the first investment, which did go well, the other ones did not, or the other next one did not. And so, yeah, his heart was in the right place, ish. Yes, it's not compared to the others.

The stuff that happens in the other episodes to the women involved. This one is actually pretty mild. And Frazier does call him on it, which is very funny. I do like that.

Frazier's like, I'll just give you $10,000. I'll get double my money back, right? Yeah. No, there's not a lot of, there's not a lot of, there's not a lot of, on all these episodes, there's not a lot of work stuff going on.

There's not a lot of him at the radio station. No, no, there's not. And I think that's just, I like that a lot. I like the radio station as a, as flavor to the rest of the episode.

Like the, the first episode, the retirement episode that, you know, had a little bit of workplace, you know, magic from in there. Gary, Gary Sinise. Yeah, yeah. I didn't mention, I did.

Mary Stiebergen was also one of the collars in one of these episodes. Oh, that's interesting. Which I did not recognize. I didn't recognize Gary Sinise either because he was purposely speaking in a monitored voice.

Where's Gary Sinise? He's in the same one, the next one anyway. Anything else you want to say about, you scratch my book, Meghan? No, it's not a good episode.

It's not, it's not, this Ryan of six was not definitely not the best. No. The show where Sam shows up. Well, that's a very appropriate, I guess, title.

Um, Sam alone Ted Danson shows up, uh, saying hi to Fraser. This is a, Hey, you remember Cheers? Yeah. Sam's here.

Sure is. Hey, do you like Ted Danson? He's here. Isn't Ted Danson charming?

Was this around the time when he was like, with Whoopi Goldberg? I'm just curious, like, did he need some goodwill? Wasn't there an awful incident, which now is back in Vogue, apparently, that he was in Blackface and at some events? That was in 1993.

Yes, it was. Yeah. Maybe he did a little bit of goodwill. Yeah, I don't know.

It's, it's a crossover episode. Um, I never watched Cheers. I've never seen a single episode of Cheers. I know, I understand what Sam alone is.

He's like, it's not a complicated character. He's, he is like a sexual compulsive as crazy. I think that's why I've never, like, I know some people love Cheers. To me, it's, it's real dated.

Like, I've tried watching some episodes, and I just did not enjoy it. And I think the central reason is because it banks on the fact that you're supposed to find Sam alone much more attractive and charming than I guess I do. And this episode just kind of compounded that it's like, we're talking about Ted Danson, you know, who I like very much in the good place, you know? I mean, but Ted Danson, if you look at his entire television career, it's very impressive because he's been in hit shows in four different decades now, I think, which is pretty impressive.

I missed, I missed whatever pitch show was before the good place. Booker, I mean, like, well Cheers went into the 90s and then he was on, he was in Curb Your Enthusiasm. He was in Becker, sorry, not Booker Becker. That went through late 90s to early 2000s.

It was, went through six seasons. It was popular enough. Is that a CBS show? There's like all these shows on CBS that, you know, millions and millions of people watch that I just, I've never heard of before.

So he played a recurring character in CSI. He's been on literally, I maybe like close to a thousand episodes of television probably in his career. So there are 500 episodes of television complete total because he was in like 275 episodes of Cheers over 100 episodes of Becker, like 100 episodes of CSI, plus now the good place. So he was in Fargo.

He's been on, he's won like a gajillion, Emmy, sparingly. So that's impressive. And I don't mind, like, I think in this, like, if Ray's your episode, I think same alone functions fine. But he's not the star, like, you know, Cheers, it is feet, I mean, it isn't on sample cast, but it is, I think featuring Ted Danson, same alone, most prominently, obviously.

And I think as a supporting character, I think he works really well. I kind of, if this episode wasn't what it was, I think it could be like, I say that it's really strange. Like if this was a totally different episode, I think Sam would be a really cool character because it's a different, it's kind of sad. He's like kind of a sad character in this, in this episode.

Really is. I mean, and I think if it was not so kind of gross in every other regard, it'd be interesting portrayal of his character. Yeah. But it's, it's gross.

It's gross episode. It's, it's this and the one coming up to the Daphne's room, which is the next episode. If these two episodes together just killed me, and I just was like, I'm done. I can't.

And then I had to watch one more and I was like, uh, cuz the Sam is visiting Seattle because he's trying to, he says because he's audition, he's has an interview for being a Seattle mayor's pitching coach. Sure. But then it's really, we find out he's trying to get away from this woman because he promised a mayor and then they did get married, blah, blah, blah, blah. T.O.

Loni. I like T.O. Loni in general. Yeah.

Um, Sheila. And we find out that Sheila had an affair with Frazier, unbeknownst to him, which is I might, again, the writing that might be a little too, you're pushing it when you say, he just happened to be visiting Boston, Boston's a gigantic city with him just randomly meeting her and then having sex seems. Unfraiderly. Unfraiderly and almost impossible just by logistically, like what's the chances that he actually, he just happens to meet the one woman that Sam has is engaged to?

Like how did that, that happen? I'm like, that's pushing it where you're like, that's stretching. Like if they knew each other or friends and friends introduced them or something, okay, but it's just random. Well, also, it just doesn't hang right.

Like we're, like, we sit at, oh, it was three months ago. It's like, we're now like more than halfway into the season of, of Frazier and, you know, it's one of those classic, like, well, you know, you know, characters do things off screen, you know, nobody unless it's a plot point, nobody shows someone going to the bathroom in a sitcom, right? But like, have flying to Boston and having like a fling with a woman seems a very out of character for Frazier, but also very convenient for this story. Yes, it's very lazy sounding to me.

Yes, it is. It is very, and that's not like, I despise lazy writing. I don't care what kind of show you're making. Like, I just say sitcoms, you have to make 24 episodes in a season.

So sometimes you have to just like, oh, we don't have time to fix this. So yeah, they just, we say it so it happened. We don't show you, we just tell you. But the episode hinges on the fact that, okay, Sheila had an affair with Frazier, with Frazier, and Frazier's innocent in this, the only thing that technically, I guess, Frazier is relatively innocent.

The only thing he doesn't want, he doesn't want Sam to know that he had sex with his fiance, even though he was unaware. Right. Which is, I guess, understandable to a certain extent. However, we then find out that Sam also had an affair.

And then we then find out that Sheila also had other affairs and then, oh, okay, then the thing that ends the episode basically and makes Sam call off the wedding is that Sheila had sex with Cliff from Cheers. And that everyone, poor John Krasinski, everyone, all three people, oh, Sheila, I guess Sheila doesn't care. But both Sam and Frazier are gobsmacked, befuddled, angered, even that someone, how dare she have sex with Cliff. And it's just like a whirlwind of so many problems.

I'm just like, there's so many issues. I'm like, one, why? Who cares? You guys are all having sex with everyone all the time.

They both, they met in group. I know that you would think that you would think that you could understand that might, it might come up, it might be a problem, you would have to confront again. And it's, what did John Krasinski do? Why did they, why?

I think it's just, he's always been like the stack, because there is a joke about Cliff at the beginning of the show too, like, oh yeah, he read about germs and hasn't left his mother's apartment, which famously he lives, you know, with his mother. And then, like, you know, he's there like, oh yeah, people started coming back to the bar now that he's not there. I mean, I think, yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

It's just kind of grand falling out. So problem, but aside from that, which, you know, it's, I don't, but I don't, John Ratzberg, sorry, I got the name on John Ratzberg, that's something you have. Oh, yes, John Krasinski. That's, yeah, that's a different guy.

John Krasinski's, I, we think, it's, most people like him. John Ratzberg. I was gonna say, that might cause problems of a different variety. Yeah, Sam might be jealous.

Like, yeah, but like, no, the, the, the treatment of this woman who is done, essentially the same thing that Sam has done is kind of, serial womanizers, they, like, they even, and they even earlier in the episode, Sam is like, charming Daphne. Yeah, and, and Ros, and he's just, and he turns on the charm and everyone loves him. And Niles is like, and Niles is like, he's not, like, I don't like him flirting, blah, blah, blah. And Fraser's like, it's what he does.

He flirts with everyone. He's, it's a serial, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they just, they explain it. It's okay.

Sam, we like Sam, don't we? And I'm, and I'm like, sure, he's, he's charming. And he like, I think it works well in the dynamics of this episode with the rest of the cast. But then, no, let's, let's let Shane his fiancee and then send him off to have a meeting with empty sex with stewardesses before he traveled back to Boston.

If it was, if it ended on a solitary sad note, I could maybe live with some of it. But when it's like, no, we're just gonna go have one night stands with flight attendants. I'm like, oh my god. And then the stinger is just Fraser alone in a car, yelling the word cliff over and over and over again.

Yeah. And guys, I know it's 1995, but you've done, I don't know, the show does have sometimes mixed results, especially piano teacher thing. That was pretty ridiculous. And this is another time where it's just like, your women are not there.

They're also allowed to have sex. And if you're gonna vilify her for it, Sam should get the same treatment. But he doesn't, he's just, he's charming and Ted Nonsense. So, T.

Lee, we're gonna throw you back to, you can go have a successful career in your movies and television as well. But I don't, it's just, I thought you were better. Fraser, I thought you were better. He's not.

No, not the character, the show. It's not. Okay. I, yes, we have our ups and downs, ups and downs.

Speaking of downs. Okay, I don't know. That's his room is the name of the next episode. It's terrible.

I, I get that they are trying to do the slapstick thing, but the disturbing things that come to light, like, essentially, it's a, it's a comedy of errors, you know, Fraser goes into her room to like get a book. But of course, because he's never in her room, he gets all sneaky and starts pulling through her stuff, which, you know, is it creepy? Yes. However, you know, medicine cabinet peaking, you know, I can totally understand that first, the first time he goes in and he's curious that I can deal with as it's not, I'm not saying it's right, but I can understand someone doing it going, especially she's lived there.

And he's, how, how does he never know they don't go in her room ever? Right. Like, I was wondering that too. Like, does it have a lock?

Is it basically like her apartment, like a apartment within the apartment or? I think they are, at this point, she is more than just an employee. Well, and that's the thing. Like, can we address like, is it common for people's, it is not, no, it is not common.

I'm not going to ask the question. It is not common for someone's physical therapist, even an elderly person's physical therapist to live in the same apartment. Martin does need, you know, physical therapy, but he does not need a caretaker. Like, he is, you know, perfectly sentient and capable of taking care of himself.

So why does she live there? Like, that's, that's always been the question. Like, why, I mean, other than it doesn't make any sense. And yeah, she is more than that because she cleans.

So I mean, if that's the deal they worked out that she's like also a live in housekeeper. Okay, but I, I just can't wrap my brain around the fact that someone like Daphne, who clearly has some very deep-seated privacy issues, wouldn't even agree to live in a room in their apartment in the first place. I, I, I just don't, like, I wish, if, okay, so if the show would ever, one time had had Daphne be protective of her personal space, I would maybe be a little bit, a little lenient towards certain aspects of the episode. We, but there's no mention of it ever before.

Like, they've never even barely mentioned her room before other than she goes back there and, and fantasizes about Ted Danson. But we've never seen her room before. And I, I don't know, considering that she's no longer, I, I think it's her to say she's no longer just employee. She's friends.

These are, they're, they're basically family is an extended family at this point. And although, although, you know, this is kind of telegraphing to the next episode, but I, you know, never really knows that she only calls Frazier Dr. Crane, which is, you know, anyway, go on. I mean, I think it's hard for us to, how to, how to, like, dissect this because it, the way she talks, like, I don't, I've never talked to a boss the way that she talks to Frazier or to Niles or to, to Marty.

And clearly, yeah, she's, she's, but she's, I would say, she does things that are definitely what I would consider a friend does, not an employee does like, yeah, my job as an employee is to help your father and to take care of him and to go clean, I guess, as I live and made or whatever. And even if she's, and even if she does occupy space between friend and employee, I, I've had roommates. I've lived in situations where I, I've gone in their rooms just, it might not even be like, Hey, let's hang out and watch a movie together or something. But it is, Hey, I sat in the room with them and talked to them for a bit amount of time.

Like it's not like it's, it's not like it's a sarcophagus or like some artifact that Frazier's under thing. You should, I can't, I can't imagine, it's another situation where I just can't imagine him never even looking into her room before. He lives there. And maybe, yeah, maybe, and the way that they present it, kind of that way, because yeah, it is weird.

She like opens the door and he's going through her stuff. Like, that's weird. That, that bears some explaining, but then they just kind of like swing in the complete opposite direction and start making the case that like you said, it's like this tomb of solitude or something. And it doesn't make sense.

And then it gets worse. And then it gets worse, like that's just without it. It can sound like it's just be fuddling. It's confusing, like choices about the writing.

And then it gets to the point where Frazier, they just, I don't find, because he goes back in the room and he gets quote unquote trapped in there, because he's trying to return pills that he took from her, quote unquote accidentally. I don't, I don't know if you know, those calls him out on. Yes. And that does call him out on that.

He's like, I don't walk into a drug store and ask for him jumps into my pocket. That's ridiculous. Exactly. And so, hey, it's, it's very the classic, like, oh, I made a mistake.

So I'm gonna try and make sure no one's under no one sees it and then makes a mistake worse and worse and worse and worse. But so he ends up being in the room where I was changing and then showering and then she's catches him. And then, and then she's upset because she showed me. And while this is all going on, there is the supply makes it all worse, because Niles is, it doesn't, doesn't know how to celebrate Maris's 40th birthday.

Yeah. And there's all, there's like kind of background conversations throughout the episode sprinkled in about how, and they, and also about Niles wanting physical attention from Maris. It's all kind of mixed in together. And then he buys her a BMW and that's what she then she has sex with him twice in one night, rarely.

But Niles is very excited, happy about that. And I think that's fine for Niles and Maris because Maris doesn't exist really, she exists, but we don't see her. We don't know her. She's just a we're progressively getting information that she's basically the worst.

So whatever. And like, yeah, we could try and dissect like, we know their relationship isn't necessarily healthy. Right. So that's, it's our new information when, oh, the, they have sex is because he bought her a BMW and blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, that's not, if that's not troubling, then, you know, it's, yeah, it's already, we already understand that they aren't happy together in some way. And that's just like, okay, it's another piece of evidence for us. But when you can, when you match it with the main plot of let's of both first razor, and then, okay, even when you get past the point of him being in her room while she's changing and showering, you then get to the point where then they end up in her room. Niles ends up in her room with him.

And did they're just destroying it? They're just throwing stuff or like, what are you, if I was Daphne, if I walk into that scene, I take my things and I leave and I never look back. I am gone forever. There's nothing you could say to me that would convince me that I should stay in this situation, because clearly these people have tricked me into thinking that they're semi sane, because this is a bridge too far.

If anyone did this to me, I don't care if I'm in any living situation, if I'm in the situation of roommates, and for the third time, I find not one, but then two of them in my room, basically just ripping my room apart, throwing my clothes around. I am getting the hell out of there as fast as possible. I don't care. They can buy me five cars.

I'm not staying there. I'm living somewhere else. Yeah. And that's like, it's problematic because she's a woman and it becomes a part of the, it becomes important when Fraser is intruding on like, in seeing her change and seeing her naked in the shower, even though he doesn't really see it, he's there.

I don't, he doesn't, they try and dance around it. They try and make it like, oh, Fraser's there and they don't want to, and he's just, and it's more like, oh, I'm awkward. And I didn't, all I wanted to do was leave the pills and leave. I didn't want to, I didn't want to be here and it's laugh sticky and try.

It tries to be silly, but it fails. It fails miserably. Yeah. Well, and then the sort of disturbing anecdote of why she's like this quote unquote in the first place, because she lived with all these brothers who would try to spy on her in the shower.

Like, I was like, that's, that's disturbing. Yeah. And then let's throw a gay joke in there because, you know, the ballroom dancing brother spied on the other brothers, because that's the whole thing was just like, this was, this is not great. It's a tonal mess, because if you want to be silly, like, I could, like, the show has done an excellent job before, prior with Fraser and Niles with physical comedy, and then, you know, kind of like a silly, misunderstandings and dance, like moving around and trying to hide and that kind of stuff is, the show has done that things like that prior to this are really well.

But when you introduce, oh, here, let's make Daphne address. Hey, I have a personal, I have personal trauma, because my brother spied on me. And then let's, let's exploit that trauma for a quote unquote, silly comedy. It doesn't work.

Like, there's nothing on earth. I don't, and apparently, I was like, I looked at the reviews of this and they are incredibly disparate. Like, some people think this is episode hilarious. And then other people like us go, this is a miserable, what is going on?

And I don't, I don't understand how you can see this and not see the problems of the problems of tone. And, and you can't have the trauma part. Like, if Daphne is doing something like, okay, Fraser, the second time is trapped in her room. If Daphne is not changing and then showering, if she's doing other things that are maybe embarrassing, but not, not, I don't know, revealing, then I think you could do it.

I think you could make it work. Like, if she's like trimming her toenails or doing like something gross or what, like, it doesn't matter. It could be like, Oh, I'm like, make Fraser like, I don't want to, like, you could maybe push and make her because she's, and then she's on the same level and don't have anecdotes about her brother's peeping on her. Don't include that at all.

That's the, why, how did that get through? How did that get past the first draft? Like, did no one see that? I go like, we shouldn't include that.

That's gonna, that's gonna ruin a lot of the fun here. We should not, you could just say, I didn't get any time alone because I never had my own room. Like, you can make it easy as that. Increasingly, like, it's like they're trying to paint a picture of her childhood in England is like this Dickensian hellscape.

Like, in the other episode where, where she's where the argument was about, it was the one where Fraser's stuff gets stolen, right? And, you know, he was talking about how he tries to see the best in people. And she's like, Oh, you know, and she tells the story about how, yeah, she used to, you know, walk through the city, like with her eyes down and not, you know, talking to anyone. And then she decides to change that look up and see the sites.

And one of those sites is a man who clearly passes her a note asking for oral sex. And like, and that's the joke. That's the joke is that he spelled Felicia wrong. And it's like, you know, I mean, you live in a city, stuff happens, cat calls happen, people are gross and creepy, whatever.

But like, I just was like, Oh my gosh, like the one time I try to be a positive and be positive and like, you know, look up and be happy and and then this happened. And then she just kind of wanders away with her laundry basket or whatever. And it's like, Jesus Christ. Don't make that apart.

Don't those anecdotes don't make they make it. I mean, I guess that editor in particular is very revealing to the commonplace abuse that women receive, especially Daphne apparently in her life in in England, for she, but I know it Daphne is she feels like, you know, Daphne has just been like, you know, she's the weird psychic lady for a while. And now it's getting like she's becoming more real, like a closer to like a actual person. And it's they're not they're making her just like a victim.

Like she's a plot device in this. She's not, she's barely a character. And I think that's my largest problem with it is that she's just a girl to that Fraser and Niles can be dumb. Like it is emblematic of all these episodes of like a lot of what these we've watched in these episodes is like, it's just people are it's just a lot of plot devices and lazy writing and stupid people being stupid for no reason other than the story says so.

Well, and the conclusion, you know, like you said, it doesn't help. Like if it was, I mean, if this was a it didn't have to be like a very special episode, but you know, at least end it with like a real discussion instead of a third like third Marx Brothers movie happening, like, or attempted that kind of humor. And then of course, the end result is that he buys her her a car. How much money does Fraser have?

I don't know. I mean, I said they weren't at the Mercedes dealership that was made clear, although she was sitting in a convertible. So in, you know, I mean, I don't know. He's that committed one.

Again, it's a it's a it's a joke. And it's not, we don't see any any resolution of what like of Daphne getting explained away why all this stuff is happening and why you're in my room and why you're tearing it apart. And it's just, Hey, we can buy off anyone. We just give them a car.

You're like, well, some things Daphne strikes me as the type of person that would just say, no, thank you. Goodbye. Yeah. And at this point, Fraser, I guess it speaks to something about Fraser and how much he likes Daphne around in that he is willing to buy a car for her.

And I mean, maybe in some kind of weird way, it speaks to how the relationship really is not employed more than ever is more than employer employee, because at the end of the day, she is choosing to say, but it just feels strange. Like, it takes a relationship that's already kind of like what's going on from the outset, and it makes it weird. Oh, so I anything you'd like to add? I think I've said enough.

Okay. That's one. Yeah, it's not. Our last episode is the club.

Ah, the club. This episode, that's a caller. At least this one is like offensive. It doesn't have that it's I think I like Fraser Niles rivalry episodes in general.

Yes. I think this episode is missing something. Yeah, it's I don't know. It's interesting because it is a sibling rivalry episode, which is always fun.

And it kind of turns on a dime because at first there was no reason to be rivals. There were two spots available in the club of the title, which I mean, what I mean, I know that stuff still exists. It just feels so okay. I mean, it's very much of the world of the crane boys.

Like, I don't have any trouble believing that that club exists in Seattle and that they've always wanted to be or at least Niles has always wanted to be a member or whatever. Right. But it's I don't know. It's like, but why though?

It's it's yeah, it's very surface level. Yeah. And I don't expect again, I do not I do not expect like I wasn't I don't expect like examinations or social critiques of how we handle sex workers in society. I don't expect that from Fraser.

And I don't expect like deep examinations of class and privilege and for Fraser necessarily, they're not deep. But I do expect glances at it. I expect some like some jokes like and some jokes that lead to kind of a hint some depth that some nuance there about how what this club is what it is not. I think largely the like we don't really know the club isn't anything.