A Body in the Basement

Hi, I'm Holly. And I'm Haley. Welcome to Mountain Mysteries Tales from Appalachia. Hello.

Did you miss us? I'm gonna do. Thanks, I'm sure you didn't. But that's okay.

I'm going to force you to listen to my story anyway. I'm ready. Okay, so this story we're going to jump right into because it is, it really took me for quite a ride when I read through it. I mean, there's just it's intense.

And I'm like, why have I never heard of the story, which we say often? So this is the story about the Midtown Jane Doe. So we are going to go to February 10th, 2003, in Midtown, Manhattan, in New York City, at a building located at 301 West 46th Street. So this is an area known as Pels Kitchen.

Yep. And it's sometimes referred to as Clinton. So this area is not the greatest place. It got its name, Pels Kitchen, in the late 1800s due to its high crime rate and overall dangerous reputation.

Fine. Yeah. I mean, I love a good history. So that reputation has continued into the 20th and 21st century.

So it is well known for gang activity, drugs, and prostitution. Basically, you name it. If it was illegal, it was happening here in Hels Kitchen. I mean, I love a good kitchen.

Who doesn't? Right. It seems like all those activities should be happening in a kitchen. Hmm, it's true.

It's true. Hels Kitchen's like, you know, Hailey was cooking for you. Yeah. It's like what kind of time are we tossing out?

Well, usually yours is just fire. That's true. Yeah. So by 2003, the large brick building that sat at 301 West 46th Street was in pretty rushing.

So most of the upper levels were closed off and not even usable. I mean, the building was really falling into disrepair. There was an adult video store, of course, on the street level, but that was about it. There was a restaurant next door who needed some additional storage space for their tables and chairs and all that fun stuff.

So they leased out a portion of the building's basement. So they were like, you know what, you might have three space over there down there in that basement. Why don't we just utilize that? But the basement was in rough shape.

So it had to be somewhat renovated just to be able to be a storage unit, essentially. Well, and I don't know if you've seen the way basement's work in New York City, but they're kind of wild. Like, it's like for our audience. So you access them usually via a great in the sidewalk.

So you would have to have some kind of like, you know, they're locked and you have to have like something to lift the grate with. And then there's either like a ladder or sometimes stairs to go down into them. And it's like, that's how you get to them. A lot of times they don't have access from inside a building, especially if it's going to be a storage for that building.

It's accessed from outside, which I always thought was interesting. But yeah, so there I haven't been in any buildings where you access when I was living in New York, both as a student and then working up there, that you didn't access it from outside. So that's kind of a way because most of the times your buildings have an underground level anyway. So then your like basement level is kind of under the sidewalk more so than under the building, if that's the sense.

Yes. So like on your block, like you own that building, but then sometimes there's a space underneath. And this is good because this allows for either multiple tenants, multiple businesses that are not like connected to each other. Yeah.

So the people like other like multiple people may have a little key into that space. If you have like three businesses in that one building, they all could access that space. Absolutely. That makes sense.

Yes. Yes. And this building, having a lively place in the past, this basement had been a lively place. So it was a nightclub starting in the 20s through the 60s.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. I mean, I don't know.

Basements to me tend to be on the creepy side. I don't think I would be. Yeah. But so most notably this building was or this basement was Steve Paul's the scene.

Steve Paul of course was an owner and operator. The scene was a pretty happening place and included performances get this by some of the great light. Are brief of Franklin, Jimmy Hendricks, the doors, Pink Floyd and Fleetwood Mac in the basement. In the basement.

That's supposed to be like different because I've been down in some of those and they are scary. Right. And we'll get to some of the things later on, but I just don't really understand. So this wasn't like your typical CD club.

Like this was a legit operation. And now it sounds really weird to have a musical venue in a basement, but it kind of lends itself. Like we said, we could probably record heart in a box in my basement. Oh, yes.

We needed to. I'm feeling palpitations just thinking about it, largely because your basement is scary as hell. And there is also a slab. Yeah, we still talk about in your basement.

That is suspicious. It is. Yeah. It is.

Yeah. So this secret highway club was very trendy and very popular and patrons had to go through multiple corridors just to get to the stage area where performances were held. Like it wasn't like you just walk in and you're at the club. It was like go through all these secret passageways and you know, I mean, it definitely had a vibe.

Yeah. So by the summer of 1969, Steve Paul, the owner was pretty tired of being pushed around by mafia members. So around the time period, the mob was pretty heavily invested in these clubs and were known to kind of rough up and push around the owners a little bit, you know, because they wanted their stay. So during that summer of 69, the NYPD had cracked down on mafia activity.

And Steve Paul was like, you know what? Nope. This is not going to affect me. And he closed down his club in order to set the way himself from the mob bosses.

He'd be like, no, no more on out, which was smart. So after the nightclub clothes, there were a few shops that were in and out of the basement, but nothing that was super notable. This brings us back to the present in February of 2003. So we got the construction crew, they're down there, they're hard at work, they're taking down walls, they're excavating, they're trying to bring this place back to life again.

The first for storage. For storage, right? For storage, of course. So I will say based on the pictures I saw from 2003, this place looked like an episode we would do on like haunted places.

Oh, super creepy. Like, yeah, it's like, it's pretty big. So like the the area where the stage used to be is like a very like kind of large open space. So there could be that this is a whole underneath of this building.

Yes. Yes. Not just one of the small like, no, it's a whole underneath of the building, but it has these tiny little corridors to kind of get to that. Yeah.

It's creepy, but it is in a corner of the basement that a worker notices what appears to be a six foot concrete slab. Sounds familiar, sounds familiar, Haley. Well, we were just recording hard in a box and, you know, there was something in the slab on the concrete slab. It is like, well, I have to take a picture of ours and we'll have to post it or a month.

That would be great. They need to see this. Yeah, because it literally is just like a slab. Your basement had a vibe of its own and it was a vibe that screamed get the hell out and I did.

Yeah, it's not great. No, it is not. Nope. So the construction worker ends up hitting the concrete slab with a sledgehammer and he notices a piece of rug or some kind of terracotta colored material.

So he pulls on it like, what is this? Is this a shopping bag? Like, what is this? And out comes a skull.

Oh, freak out, obviously. Yeah. He and his colleagues called least immediately. Good call.

Absolutely. So when NYPD show up, they break up the concrete and they see a raggedy thinning shag rug or carpet. It's not can't really tell. Inside the carpet are human remains.

They instantly know this has to be a murder. It can't just be a, oh, look, someone just died. You know, I know you fit my concrete slab with a sledgehammer. I'm scared to.

I think I should do it. I don't own this house. I rent this house. But I think I want to be full of it.

Not if he's a murderer. I don't like he's a murderer. That's what he wants you to think. You be.

We don't know. I did check from him yesterday about something and he never responded. So there you go. He was out murdering.

That's he was out working on another slab. Maybe. I mean, property, but this house was not built by him. Wow.

Like it was built in the 50s, I think. That doesn't mean anything. I think the slab has been there since the 50s. The kind of blends in with everything else.

It's not like a news lab. That's convenient. Yeah. Well, I'll be holding the cell phone ready to call 911 and you guys can be down there, you know, sledgehammer.

Perfect. Perfect. Sledgehammer. Okay.

So inside the carpet are human remains. They know this is a murder. The body has essentially been hog tied with panty hose and electrical cord. Wow.

The victim was wearing a glittery dress with new color panty hose. Yeah. She was at the club. Yeah.

It may be. And she was wearing a size 32 A bra. So small chested. Yeah, I'm a 38.

Well, I thought I just like grabbed them like, yeah, that's right. Me too. That that feels right. Actually, my left one is an entire cup size bigger than the right.

That's true. We have talked about that. I guess a 38 D. Wow.

Very impressive, especially when you know nobody can see, but she is. I'm currently wearing just a big oversized sweatshirt without any kind of support underneath, if you know what I mean. I guess. So Holly can tell.

I can. I can't. I'm sorry. I got a bit.

I know. But you guys can't tell. I can't tell. And she's still lovely.

And in your mind, we're all perky and young, you've been in fair. So all right. So while the cops are unclear of the deceased girl's age, they are fairly certain she is a woman. They noticed some other clues around the body.

So there's a bad rap poison, a military army man, you know, like the G. I. Joe action figures, a bouleville watch, a crusty dime, and a ring on the victim's pinky finger with the initials PMG. So that kind of weed you to start thinking, okay, were these her initials?

Was this somebody else's like somebody else gave her a ring with those initials? What's you know, a family heirloom? What is this? So the body's taken in for forensic analysis.

The medical examiner is able to determine that the corpse is female in between four foot 10 inches tall and five foot four inches tall and estimates that she was between the ages of 16 and 19 when she was killed. So based on the pelvic bone and the decomposition, it's really hard to tell if the young lady had born any children or not. So it's also noted that she has extensive dental work in the back of her mouth, but the front of her teeth are running out. Yeah.

So instantly police are trying to figure out who is this young girl? How long has she been buried in this basement? Who killed her? All the things.

So the medical examiner wasn't able to identify how long she's been deceased, but thought that it could have been anywhere from 10 to 15 plus years. So if you're doing the math, that puts the time of death anywhere between the mid 1980s and like 1993. So she's been there a while. Yeah.

So who is this girl? How did she wind up in a basement for years? Was she killed elsewhere and buried there? Was she murdered in that basement?

What happened? Was it when it was a shop? What's going on? No.

So yeah, police first theory is that she might have been a runaway youth. So right near this building is a bus stop, which has been referred to as the Minnesota Strip. You ever heard of that before? Okay.

So it's called this because most girls who come to the city are runaways from the Midwest. And many come through this bus terminal and find themselves involved in drugs of prostitution in the city. So police think that maybe they're J&O who is now referred to as the Midtown J&O is a Midwest runaway who may have been employed as a sex worker. They're also going on, and of course, you know, there is a little misogyny here.

They're also kind of going on, oh, well, she was wearing like a sparkly dress and you know, how do these pantyhose and that kind of thing? So they're sort of going down this avenue. Things that add to their sex worker theory is that her teeth have extensive work. So they believe that maybe she came at least from a mid-class family, but may have gone and left several years ago and just like not taking care of her teeth.

So like maybe her teeth had been well cared for and appeared that she had had braces. So she had been cared for prior to her death. So they start checking missing person cases from all over the Midwest. And they try to develop a theory, you know, kind of based on the clothing that she was wearing, when the clothing was manufactured, they looked at the tags, and they thought, you know, it has to be somewhere in the 80s and 90s.

So they sort of put out a search for girls of that age who went missing in the Midwest in the 80s and 90s. So it's a long list. Oh my goodness. Yes.

And this puts the date of birth for this person anywhere from like 1958 onward. So that's exclusively what they look for. So in search of missing the Western teens, they look for those with birth dates of 58 and later, and they sort of close in. Okay, this is our parameters.

These are our ranges. This is what we're going to look for. Meanwhile, they try to extract some DNA, but due to the bones being very brittle and disintegrated, they aren't able to get much of a sample. So they want to be cautious about testing largely because once any sample that they're able to attain is gone, like they have nothing else to work with.

Right. And you know, putting this in the profile system, you know, nothing shows up like it's not showing that she has committed any crime. So they can't find her that way. And after remember, it's 2003.

So genealogical DNA sites for comparison is not a thing at this point. And they don't really come up with anything until a few years later, when a press release shows the ring with the initials, BMG. A Midwestern woman by the name of Karen states that her sister went missing in 1980 after moving to New York City to pursue a career in show business. Oh, so while Karen's sister did not have the initials, EMG, their grandmother did.

And it was thought that the young girl could have been wearing the grandmother's ring. Yeah. So Karen was like, you know what, I think this is my sister. Oh, my gosh, I've been looking for her at this point for 25, 35 years.

And so when Karen tested her DNA in 2013 against the Midtown Jane Doe, it comes back. It's not a match. Really? Not a match.

So police go back to the drawing board because they had all their eggs in this basket. It's gone. Yes, I like all of it makes sense, right? She's from the request.

She's in that age range. She's wearing the ring. She went missing in 1980, like all of it makes sense. So they're like, okay, let's let's revisit this and start looking at some of the stuff we found at the crime scene.

So they examine the dimes that was found near the victim. And while it's really hard to read because it's so corroded, basically, they are able to get a date off of the dime and the date is 1969. But that doesn't really mean a lot because in 1980, you could easily be carrying a dime from 1969. I could be carrying a dime from 2003 right now.

So that doesn't really mean much, at least to me. So they look at the victim's Boulevard watch, which was a very fancy nice watch. And they see that it was produced after the killer model in 1966. But again, that doesn't mean that the victim was killed in the 60s.

You know, maybe she just liked antique watches. So she could have been worried her mother's watch. She could have liked antiques. But who knows?

So they go to the Rap Poison bag. The Rap Poison bag was produced in 1979. Again, reiterating that theory that the victim was most likely killed in the 80s. So another credence to this theory is that drugs and prostitution were at their height in New York City, especially in Hell's Kitchen in the 1980s.

Your ladies were a wild time. Oh my gosh, and violence in New York City. Like it was just a very difficult time. So they kind of keep going back.

So they're looking at more items found. So they're looking at that army man. The army man was produced in the late 60s by the tail. So you have to ask yourself, why would a teenage girl be carrying around a plastic army man?

I mean, was she a babysitter? Like, you know, did she have ever siblings? Did she have a child of her own? Like, what was this?

Like, none of this makes sense. Why is there random Rap Poison? No, there's just so many things. But again, maybe this was just to keep the rats away.

Maybe somebody put it there to keep the rats from like trying to eat away at her. I don't know. It's odd. Yeah.

So police also look closer at the rug, which was compared against those similar and they were manufactured in the 1960s. So police are going back and forth. Was the victim killed in the 60s or was she killed me 80? So we got a lot of 60s stuff.

Yes, that's kind of starting to add up. It's weird. So we know that Steve Paul's the scene closed officially in August of 1969. So the murder would have had to have occurred after the nightclub closed, otherwise someone would have seen it.

So the case sadly goes cold because nobody can identify this girl. Nobody knows who she is. They don't know who killed her until 2021 when a pair of fresh eyes and a new detective gets the case. I love that they've always kind of kept it going.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, it doesn't just totally go away. So this detective recalls how in 2018, the Golden State killer murders was solved through genetic genealogy. So he's thinking, okay, all we have to do is get the good enough DNA sample of mitochondrial DNA.

So they're able to take the DNA profile that they have, the very little bit that they have, and they send it to a lab in California that is able to test it. And they submit it to this website called JEDMATCH. And JEDMATCH compares, you know, family members who have donated their DNA to ancestry.com and 23andMe, you know, especially to find their roots. And it compares it to see if there's going to be any hit.

So they're thinking if they can find a family match and work down a tree, they might be able to name their victim. Well, lo and behold, there is a match. One of the victim's paternal side, a first cousin, pops up. And on the maternal side, there's a first cousin once removed that pops up.

So I just want to clarify because there is a lot of confusion about like what once removed means. So a first cousin once removed is someone from a different generation. So like, like, let's say Haley and I are cousins, because we were born in different generations, we're still first cousins, but we would be once removed because we're a generation apart. Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah. So all of my first cousins, we're all first cousins once removed because I'm at least 15 years older. So yeah. So Linda, the genetic detective, starts tracing the paternal side and comes up with the last name, McClone.

Then she looks at where it intersects genetically. So this intersection would be our victim. So where McClone and somebody else's DNA starts to intersect. So Linda takes that name of this man that she suspects as the victim's father, Bernard McClone's senior, and looks up marriage records.

She starts looking at birth records, church baptismal records, like she kind of goes through everything. And she's able to make a connection and believes that the victim is 16-year-old Patricia Kathleen McClone. It hits Linda that the ring may sound at the crime scene have the initials PMG, Patricia McClone. Yep.

Which would match. So they decide to get in touch with some of the familial matches. So they attempted to contact the first cousin once removed on the victim's maternal side, but she had passed away some years earlier. They were able to get ahold of her son, who stated that his mother had submitted her DNA to the New York forensic team.

Yeah. At least looking at me, like, why? She did so after her daughter was killed in the World Trade Center attacks on September 11, 2011. Wow.

Isn't that crazy? Wow. So for those of you who don't know, families of 9-11 victims who hadn't been identified were encouraged to submit DNA profiles. So if any remains were found, they would be able to identify them and subsequently bury them or whatever they plan to do.

So the son confirms that he knew of a cousin named Patricia McClone, but he hasn't heard from her in years. He was living in Florida and he was contacted by the police and really confused. He thought, you know, oh, maybe they're calling about a match for my sister. So police start looking into Patricia's background and they learn that she was born April 20th, 1953 in Brooklyn.

So not in the Midwest at all. Wow. She was born prior to that 1958 and she was born in New York City. So not anywhere they were searching.

Wow. The fact that she was a local was surprising because they were like, she's kind of been right under our nose this entire time. Yeah. So police do more digging and find that her father Bernard McClone has been married twice and is actually still married to his second wife when he runs off to Virginia to marry Patricia's mother.

Oh, so he's a victimist. Yeah. Her name was also Patricia. So for our purposes, I'm going to call the mom Patty and the daughter Patricia.

So at the time of their illegal marriage on June 23, 1952, Bernard, a long haul trucker, was 50 and his bride Patty was 20. Hmm, fun. Though on their marriage certificate Bernard put his age as 45 and Patty claimed that she was 21. So he went back five years and she jumped a year.

What's the key? What's that? I mean, yeah, I don't know why that makes a difference because that still feels inky to me, but that's true. That's true.

That's true. So what, like, I wonder if he changed his age so he wouldn't get caught on like the enemy charges. I do wonder that that could have been more. Yeah.

So like Patty really think like, oh yeah, did she know this religion? I don't know. So at this point Bernard had several children, all of whom were adults and older, older than his new bride, except for his third child, a son named Bernard Judonier, who was six years old when they got married. And we'll talk about Bernard later.

But a month after their wedding, the couple gets pregnant with their first and only child together, their daughter, Patricia, who was born the following April. So in July of 1953, Patricia's baptized at St. Patrick's Church in Bay Ridge, New York. So the cops were able to find her baptismal records, she was three months old when she was baptized.

And it should be noted here that Bernard kept playing husband and father to his other family as well. Like, he still lived with his second wife Helen and their son Bernard Judonier. Yeah. But he was a long-haul trucker, so his extended absences to go play husband and daddy were probably easily explainable to like both parties.

Right. Well, just going to work and having another family. So in 1957, he decides to end his marriage to his second wife. At this point, his son's 11, and apparently he stays in touch with him, but lives primarily now with Patty and Patricia.

So he's like, okay, let's go ahead and divorce. It's the right thing to do. Right time. It's the right time.

I've got a whole other family. Yeah, I'm just hopping for here. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy. So in 1960, Bernard's second wife, Helen dies of cancer.

Their son was 14 and moved in with his dad to step on and little sister Patricia, who had just born to seven. Three years later, in 1963, Bernard's senior dies. In his will, he lives to leave $1,700 a feet to Bernard and Patricia. So in today's money, that's about 17,000.

It's a pretty sizable amount of money to leave to your kids. I mean, good amount. Yeah. So the money is put into a trust with Patty as the executive trip.

Who would dolt the money in increments until each turn 21. At that point, they would have full access to the money. So going back to Patricia, the deceased girl, the main hat and Jane dogere. So she had a lot of change in the last few years.

She's had her step-brother move in, her dad dies. She's left this sum of money, like everything in her life has changed. Not to mention, she had faithfully attended the same public school from kindergarten to fourth grade. But after her father's death, she was pulled out of her school to attend private Catholic school.

This was found in her school records that police were researching. So she attended our lady of Perpetual Health Academy from 1963 to 1966. She had her first communion at 13 at the church nearby. So like overall, she was really good student, but she was forced to repeat the sixth grade at a new Catholic school, St.

Michael's, and her grades began to slip. She wasn't attending school as regularly as she had been and eventually became truant. Funny enough though, Patricia was never in any school yearbook photos. Yeah, like not a one.

Like it appeared like every time of a school photo day, she was conveniently absent. Interesting. Yeah, like why don't you want your school picture day? No.

So Patricia enrolls at her last school in the fall of 1968. So at this point, she's the team. This time she goes back into the public school at PS136. Out of the 70 days of school that term, she attends eight.

Wow. Yeah. Staff noticed that Patricia seems unwell and notes that like teachers wrote like she is never going to be able to learn anything if she doesn't come to school. So Trent officers come to the home to check on Patricia.

And her mother tells the officers that her daughter has become a drug addict and that she's hanging out with the wrong crowd. And there's like no talking to her. She goes, you know, I don't know where she is. I tried to get her back on the right path.

I really, I don't know what to do. So the truancy officers felt like Patty wasn't totally telling them the whole truth, but like what can they do? Like they can't press her. So they just leave.

Yeah. Patricia's last day of school was noted as early May 1969 when Patricia announced that she had gotten married the day before and would be withdrawing from school. She is now 16. On her school records.

It also indicates that she was withdrawing from school due to a quote medical event. And he guesses what her medical event was? That is correct. She was pregnant.

This is 60s code for she's written it. So just how things were worded back then, but police pull the marriage certificate. Um, and they see the name Patrick Kathleen McClellan and her groom 32 year old Donald G. Grant.

She is 16 barely and he is 32. Yeah, I like that. The marriage certificate is very interesting for a number of reasons. So first it says the marriage took place May 7th, 1969 at the Church of all Nations located on Second Avenue in Manhattan.

Also notable is that Patty, the mom, was one of the witnesses. So this whole story about I don't know where she is. She's just on drugs. So she knew where she was and she knew and gave permission for her daughter at 16 to Mary and Anne twice her age.

Yeah. I don't know if this was allowed because Patricia was pregnant and they were Catholic and they felt like it was the right thing to do. I don't know. I mean, you know, that might have been 16.

Right. Very well could have been legal. Yeah, that's true. So maybe Patricia didn't want to get her baby up for adoption, you know, because back then you would go to like an unwed mother's home sort of thing.

So maybe she was like, okay, we'll get married. So back to the certificate, Donald Grant, the groom claimed his birthday was February 28th, 1937 and that his parents were named James Edward Grant and Kerry Elizabeth Johnson. That's very specific. He also noted that he was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and worked as a musician.

But just think about it for a second. He worked as a musician. That's an interesting tidbit. Certainly because in the late 60s, that basement was part of the scene.

Yeah. The fans would play. Yeah. So he also noted that his address was 301 West 46th Street, the same building where Patricia's body was.

Wow. And this kind of goes hand and hand. So Bingo, we have a solid connection here. So police look in the city directories from 1969 and they see that his address is listed as this building.

So he was living there. So this is where the marriage license was sent. So this would mean that she was then living there. So again, we have a connection.

So it seems likely that at least for some part of 1969, Patricia was living in this building with Donald. So police began looking into Donald's background because now Donald moves forward as a potential suspect. So right, we always look at the spouse first. So it appears that Donald Grant is not his real name.

And in February 28th, 1937 is not his real birthday. So a little digging and police find a match to that name and birthday. So it was actually the day before February 27th, but it's to a child who died as a baby in Ohio. So this man assumed the identity of a dead baby.

Why would someone do that unless they were involved in like some shady business? Yeah. Well, remember, I told you that Donald was listed in the city directory in 69? Well, he was never listed in their prior to that or after he disappeared, like just totally.

So police are like, who is this dude? In the meantime, there is one last thing tidbit I was curious about. Like, what happened to the baby? No, she clearly wasn't pregnant when she was killed.

The autopsy showed like she wasn't expecting, but like, you know, they couldn't really tell if she had just given birth. So if she had birthed the child, it was most likely born somewhere in like June or July of 69. So if you recall, she was found in a 32-abra, a woman who just gave birth in the last couple of months, you know, your breastfeeding or even if you just had a baby and you're not even nursing, you're not going to be that flat-chested unless your baby is a couple of months. You know what I mean?

Like, you're not just going to have just given birth. So the baby would probably be at least two months old at the time of her death. No. So there's one more bit of information that goes in this case.

In 1971, Patty, Patricia's mother petitioned the courts to release $200 from her daughter's trust fund. Remember the one their father left? So she couldn't access it until she was 21 without her mother's permission. So Patricia would have only been 18 at this time.

So her mother reported to the court that Patricia's Social Security payments were ending, that she was getting from her dad since he died. So she really needed the money to get by. I also saw another document that, you know, she needed to buy work clothes and she needed this money for that. Very strange.

The document produced by the mother had Patricia's handwriting, you know, where Patricia had signed to get the money. But funny enough, when they compared samples of Patricia's handwriting on her marriage certificate versus this document for 1971, it didn't seem to match. But they did look a lot like the mother's handwriting. So this begs the question, was the mother involved somehow?

I don't know. So one last piece here, because you know, why not? In May of 1970, police were investigating her brother for our junior who was quite the bad seed, had been in trouble a lot with the law. He was in and out of jail.

He blamed a lot of it on his stepmother Patty. He claimed that Patty and her new boyfriend were abusive and they kind of forced him into this life of crime. Police paid him a visit and you know, they talked to him, but then they also talked to his stepmom Patty. And in this 1970 interview, so this is a year after Patricia goes missing, the mother says that, you know, she has a daughter that ran away the year before.

Yeah, I had this daughter, Patricia. She ran away last year and just left her baby behind who was now 11 months old. So this confirms that the baby was born and is alive. So if this interview took place in May of 1970, that means that baby was born in June of 69.

So where's the baby? Was he or she adopted out? Was it a boy? Is that why she had the little army figure?

Was it raised by a dad? So I don't know. It's just like, oh, this doesn't make sense. So police are continuing to follow as many leads as possible.

There aren't any pictures of Patricia. Like there are none that exists that they have found. Like there are no school pictures, extended family don't have pictures of her. Her mother died in 1972 with the age of 40 and her stepbrother died in 2012.

So it's just strange. Like the stepbrother even wrote a book about his life and talked about how horrible his stepmother was. Yeah, but he never mentions Patricia. Heard.

Isn't that weird? So is he involved? Is it like a ring between the mother, the husband, and the brother? There was a hair found on the body that investigators are working to extract and match like DNA?

Like is that the killer? I don't know. I mean for Patricia's sake, I really hope that her killer is found in the case of Saul. So I'm curious, like who is this husband?

Is he still alive? Like time is ticking to find him. And where's this baby? This baby would be 56 years old.

Is he or she still alive? Anyway, y'all, this was 15 pages for me and you know that I make it big. And so this was a lot of research and time, but I will tell you this case like drew me in. I could not stop.

It's great. Yes. That was awesome. Thank you.

That was good. Yeah. All right. Well, Haley, how did they get in touch with us?

We can do that by emailing us at mountainistories.appolaccion at gmail.com. Find us on Facebook, Mountain Mysteries at Caelstrom at Bellatia. Check us out on Instagram at misteries.appolaccion. And by us on our patreon at patreon.com slash mountainistories.

Ooh, ooh, and I'm going to give a shout out to Akron, Ohio. Ooh, yes. Thank you for listening. So yes, we will be back next week with another exciting tale.

See you then. Bye.