Ann Gutlib

Hi, I'm Holly and I'm Hailey. Welcome to Mountain Mysteries, Tales from Appalachia. Okay, we are live. Hello.

Hello. What? It sounded so... I don't know.

Springy? Springy? Boppy? Well, if you hear a weird buzzing in the background, it's the frickin' cicadas.

I am here at Hailey's house. Oh. Yeah, I thought when I drove up, I thought somebody had water on because it just sounds like a shhh noise. You know what I mean?

There's water gushing. Should she check something? Does she have a backdoor pool for me? We can like, you know, a little k-pool we'll sit in or something and record.

But alas, no, she said it was the cicadas. Is the cicadas? I was not prepared. So you don't have that many?

No. No. You know what? We get around like a later summer is those jumpy...

What are those? Oh, okay. It's like jumpy. Crickets.

Crickets. Remember because you would be in my basement and it'd be like a random cricket. Yes. And they're always...

Oh my gosh, they drive me crazy. Well, this is that 17-year brood of cicadas. You know, they like come out of the ground every 17 years. I did not know that.

You do not been keeping up with cicada lore? No. Just working, trying to raise my kid. I had a high time.

I've had time for the cicadas. No, they... So this is the 17-year brood. And so the last time they were this bad was...

I was in elementary school. Wow. So... But there are thousands of them.

And when they first started coming out of the ground, like you could look like hear them like coming out of the ground. So what they do is they come out of the ground. They climb the trees. They lay their eggs in a tree.

Like they burrow in and lay their eggs. And then the larvae fall out of the tree and go back into the ground where they live for like 17 years. So it kind of takes them 17 years to grow in mature. Yeah.

Well, this brood. Some birds don't. Like it's shorter time frames. But these are like...

I mean, they're about yay long with beady red eyes. Yay long. Yeah. Wow.

They're... I've had like... they keep getting in my house. I'm either coming in through our...

We have a chimney, but it's gaslog. But there's something not sealed up at the top, I guess. So they're getting in. Does it drive your pets crazy?

No. Well, the cat tried to bat it one and then it screamed. The skater, because they make this crazy noise. And he was like, never mind.

I saw your cat today for the first time in years. Yeah. He emerged. He accidentally.

Yeah. I just like, well, I'm minding his own business and he sees me in instantly freezes. In like absolute terror, you know, as most people do when they see me. And then he runs and tries to get underneath the couch.

And he's like... He's too fat. He's too fat. He is.

Yeah. And you just see like this leg trying to like get him to thump. And the couch literally like he can pick it up. Yeah.

Like it, you know, thump. He went underneath it. It was very funny though. And the dog just watched.

Yeah. Oh, there he goes. Yeah. It was...

It's a miracle. It's a... We're actually recording this on Memorial Day. Yeah.

So it is a Memorial Day miracle. Memorial Day miracle. Yeah. When you're sitting on the couch with the cat is in the couch, he cannot get out because like he has to like kind of lift the couch with his body.

Thankfully it's a light couch. Okay. Yeah. But he just is so fat.

He's so fat. And I don't know how to fix it because like I feed him the recommended amount. Well, actually more close feeds him. He's taking the repeating the cat.

So... Yeah. It's just cats. They just hold on to it.

I guess so. They're not as active. Like they're not outside as much running and that kind of thing. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, my son loves cats.

He's obsessed. He wants a cat so bad he can't stand it. He actually recently built a... He called it a kitty fort.

Oh my parents. Oh my parents have five cats. Wow. And he had this box and he called it his kitty fort and he cut it out so they could get into it to lure them in.

He put kitty treats in there. It was so sweet. And he had a little light that he put in there. He was like, they've got to be able to see.

It was so cool. And sure enough, one of the cats get in there and he was like, yes. They got in my fort. That's awesome.

Yeah. That's really cute. One day. One day.

One day. Mine's a demon. So you cut it up with a demon. I think you have to choose wisely.

Especially with a child. Like I... But my thing is I cannot handle messing up my furniture. I am...

Yeah. You got to get like covers and stuff. Yeah. And I don't want to do that.

Like I like my furniture. Yeah. Scratching pads and that kind of stuff. That's why there's a cover on this ottoman because they've ripped the corner.

Yeah. This corner is like completely ripped. I see. I hate that.

I just... It's like if I spend so much money on furniture, which I haven't spent a bunch of money on furniture, but still, like when I have, I want to keep it. That's hard enough with a, you know, a five year old. So, boy.

Yeah. You know. It's crazy. Yeah.

Well, what you got for us today? Well... We're going to talk about a case out of Louisville, Kentucky. Louisville.

Louisville. Louisville. Louisville. Louisville.

There you go. How do you say it? Louisville. Louisville.

Louisville. Louisville. Louisville. Louisville.

Louisville. Listen. Louisville. My grandmother's from up north would have been like...

My one grandmother used to say, when I moved out south, I lost like a few points. That's what she said. That is not accurate. Because we were very mean.

It was very mean. But she was very resentful because my grandfather had told her when they were up in New York and they got married. Oh, we're just in San New York. And then, oh, fun fact, after they said I do, he was like, actually, no, we're moving back down south.

Wow. And so I think that was why she had a lot of resentment. She was your family in a way. Oh, yeah.

That's funny, though. Yeah. Louisville. Louisville.

Okay. All right. So we're going to talk about Ann Gottlieb. So here's the thing that's about to happen in the story.

Oh, that's what we're doing. So we're going to talk about a lot of like Eastern European folks that have some wild names. Love it. And I'm just going to try.

Listen, try as well. You can. I'm sure we will get emails and messages telling us how we said it. It's going to be bad.

Okay. So Ann Gottlieb, she was born on May 5th of 1971. She was a Soviet Jewish immigrant to the United States and she disappeared to the age of 12 from the premises of the Louisville, Kentucky Mall. Oh, gosh.

So scary. Super scary. Okay. So she vanished actually on her first day of summer vacation in 1983.

They found her bicycle leaning against the wall of the Bacon's department store, which was part of the whatever mall it was in Louisville. She has remained a missing person. There was no body ever found. No one was ever charged with her abduction.

And this has become like Louisville's greatest mystery of what happened with this girl. So this is the 80s. So her disappearance was actually one of the first ones to put kind of a national spotlight on missing children. The FBI and the old Jefferson County Police Department checks sightings and reports all the way from Oregon to Florida.

This case is the one that actually helped prompt Congress to pass the Missing Children's Assistance Act, which in part helped establish the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. I believe the other was John Walsh's son. Yeah. And kind of I think around the same time.

Adam Walsh was around. I think Adam Walsh was actually 1981 and the same thing he disappeared from like a mall. Yeah. Just I mean, I will say growing up for me in the 80s, that was a massive fear of my members because it was it was a little bit common.

At least you heard about it. Right. And like the strain that's kind of a stranger danger when that kind of started. Yeah.

They had little like tags that they would put on your shoes and yeah. Ever went missing. Do you ever do that? I think it's called like identity kid or whatever.

Where they would come into your elementary schools or they came into my elementary school and they did our fingerprints and are like there were these cards and they were like these are the cards that you give the place if you go missing. Oh, wow. Like for our parents like your parents got one. You had one to put in like your backpack.

No. And then so like if your stuff was ever found or whatever. So like it was very dark. Yeah.

But this was like I mean that was in the 2000s. Wow. Because I was, gosh, probably first or second grade. That was probably early 2000s.

Probably their finger printing you. Yeah. So my fingerprints have been in the system since I was in like second grade. And what she's not telling you was why.

Yeah. She's saying that it was because of that. She's like, oh, it was an identical kid. Like, okay, sure.

But yeah, I took your picture and they had like you were supposed to do it like every year, but we never did it. Yeah, we just did it once. But yeah, I took your picture and so you had a picture on it. It was like a driver's license would look like and it had like, you know, your height, your weight, eye color, hair color.

So who's holding on to this info? I have no idea. I guess that they had like a database or something. Or I don't know if my fingerprints were entered into like the state database at seven years old.

But my fingerprints were on file somewhere. Oh my god. Like I we did the whole like. Yeah.

And it would do like DNA or anything, obviously, but because it was so early. I don't know about that. That I don't remember that part. But I do remember being fingerprinted.

Like in school. That would never happen nowadays. Like they would never get away with that. No.

My parents signed me up for it. They were like, yeah, you will be doing that. You will be doing that. You will be doing that.

Get used to this. I mean, like we all thought it was cool. I mean, yeah, because if you got like this little card that like had all your info on it, and it was like, you know, you get now. So that's like what your parents would give the cops if you were a kid now.

And in the eighties, we were just putting tags on our toes. Like, the more like in the more exactly on your shoe, like inside of your shoe was a little like identification thing. Seriously. I know it sounds weird.

But you know, like you got a Kmart. I love to Kmart. I got a missing mark. I know.

Um, no, the, um, so the thing is now that people are doing us are getting like the air tags and like attaching them like if they're getting a field trip or something, like attaching them, like putting them in their like hair ties or something. I've seen that before. And I'm like, I don't hate this idea. I don't hate it either, especially as a parent.

I want to know what my kid is up to. Yeah. Like where they're at. Well, you know, most of my like teenagers that I work with have that life 360 thing on their phone or live or life.

I don't know what it is. I think it's life life 360. I don't know. Um, I don't have, I don't.

You're really keeping up with the youth. I appreciate it. I know. I really don't know how it works.

All I just think it like it tracks people, but like, like my kids will track their parents. Like it goes both ways. My son thinks I'm at work today. So he thinks you're at work.

Yes. That's funny. He does. So we don't want him to know the truth.

But you're with me. If he knew that I was here, he'd be like, that's not fair. I want to go. One day your mother's got to stop working.

I know. It's crazy. She used to watch him while we were. I know.

And now she like works every frickin day. She works all the way in. She's got to retire. I know.

That's crazy. And just hang out with us. All the time. Yeah.

Would be great. She would love that. I know. Yeah.

She got nothing else to do. Just hang out with us. Yeah. We're fun.

So when you're, he gets older, like an in school school. Um, I'll have to get the life 360. Oh my gosh. I know.

Track is location. I'm just scared of everything. Like a friend of mine, sorry, because I know you're right. Mine was telling me about her seven year old who deals with this bully and I was like, I can't stand.

I don't want my kid to be bullied. You know, like all those things, which part of it's just part for the course, right? You know, that mama bear comes out in you and you're like, my child is perfect. You know, how dare you say anything bad about my child.

So, okay. Yeah. So let's talk about the kid who's missing. Yeah.

Let's talk about the kids missing. Yeah. Let's talk about the kids missing. Yeah.

I apologize. You know how we do things around here. Yeah. I'm fine with her.

Okay. So, Anne's father and a totally, I love it. I don't, that's like, and a totally, he was born in Kyiv, Ukraine in 1938. And his family actually fled to Siberia.

Oh, that's cold for several months in 1941 when the Nazis invaded. He studied engineering at Kyiv Polytechnic and then married Ludmila in 1970. And they had Anne the next year, 1971. So in 1980, they actually immigrated to the United States and settled in Lule because there was a lot of, you know, repression going on in the Soviet Union at that time, they were Jewish, you know, they made it through, you know, the Nazi era because they were in Siberia at the time, but they were like, yeah, no, we got to talk about the wall, you know, about all the things happening in the 80s with the Soviet Union.

Yeah. So they were like, we got to, we got to roll. So they left and somehow ended up in Luleville, Kentucky, which is interesting to me. It's always interesting to me how people end up where they end up.

Yeah. It's like, how did you end up in a random town in Kansas? So like, what, how did that happen? You just like throw a dart at a map and was like, that works.

Perfect. Yeah. I don't know. Crazy.

Okay. So they had come to the United States. All right. Back to your disappearance here.

So they have and they're living their life. And then Anna's 12, first day of summer vacation goes missing. But her bike's there. Her bike is still there.

Okay. So they found her bike, but no, am. So the FBI actually headed the investigation. They got them involved like really quickly with missing children, which is good.

They followed up on thousands of leads and questioned between 30 and 40 different people over the years. Three days after her disappearance, a police dog actually traced her sent to the apartment of Esther Ochomensky. Okay. Yep.

Who was the grandmother of the last person to see Anna live? Ochomensky said that, you know, Anne had never visited the apartment, though, and after a thorough investigation of her family, police decided the dog had been wrong. Weird to me. That whole situation.

But it's also weird to me that is it was this like a school friend kind of thing? Like the grandmother of a school friend? I guess though I couldn't find exactly like who was related. And don't you think it's ironic that the last person to see her alive and her scent is brought back to the island?

I don't know. Something's weird to me. Yeah, it's strange. Okay.

So they investigated, you know, a whole bunch of people. One of them was a sex offender who had been at the mall within an hour of Anne's disappearance and a serial sex offender who had an alibi though. Like, so they both had alibis. I don't like that they're all hanging out of this mall.

Right. We're all hanging out at the mall the first day of summer vacation. Yeah, being all creepy. Don't love that.

Nope. Okay. So one thing that's like, talk about a lot in this case is a conspiracy theory that Anne had been abducted by the Soviet government to force her parents to return to the Soviet Union. So what would be the point of them returning to the Soviet Union?

So there is this, you know, thought that because her father was like, did all this those parts Polytechnic Institute and did whatever they do with that or whatever, that he had like Soviet secrets, like he knew things. Okay. And it comes to the United States. And so they were trying to like get him back as a defector.

Yeah. And you know, he actually made a statement and another article that I found that was like, we never would have been allowed to immigrate here if they had any like thought that we were involved with the Soviet government. Right. So that was, they've vehemently denied having anything to do with the Soviet government, which I would believe, I mean, like sounds like he would have been long dead before.

Right. I don't know. Yeah, it's just weird. Yeah.

So yeah, they were like, that's not accurate. So there's another theory that she had left voluntarily after having trouble adapting to life in the US. But investigators and family said, no, probably not because she had no like signs of anxiety prior to disappearance. And if she had like run away voluntarily, then they figured she would have taken like money or some of her stuff.

Right. Like she literally had nothing on her. Like she had just gone to them all. Right.

And nothing. And she wouldn't leave her bike. I mean, you know, right. Like that's what you're using for transportation if you're running away.

Right. Yeah. So another reason why people thought that she might have run away is because she was actually reading a novel at the time about another person of young boy's disappearance called Still Missing. So she was like reading this book.

And so people were like, Oh, well, maybe she like got inspired by this book and decided to run away. That's terrifying. Yeah. But her parents said that, you know, she'd never run away before.

And detectives even said that it was pretty like implausible that a 12 year old girl could have covered a track so well. Covered a track so well, wouldn't have told somebody, you know, at that age, you're like, Oh, jay, Haley, guess what? You're going away. You know, like she, I don't know.

And she would have popped up somewhere. Right. You would have seen something. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So in 1993, and had been missing 10 years, police opened up their file to like a, like an online journal type place, the courier journal, and just showed that at first the investigation focused on the wrong person, a 42 year old Nicholsville resident who had been treated for quote, sexual impulse disorder, gross five years earlier, who was charged with abducting and molesting a 15 year old girl the same day that Anna disappeared. So they thought, Oh, maybe this guy, but turns out he had to like, there's no way he had an airtight all the way to like when she went missing, apparently, I don't know.

Okay. So the other main suspect in this is a guy named Gregory Oakley. He's 41. He lived a block north of Anne's apartment.

He had lost his veterinarians license in Alabama when he was convicted of a salting two girls 12, who are 12 and 14 years old and injecting them with powerful narcotics, which I'm assuming he got from his veterinary practice. Yes. Yeah. Well, yeah, pretty crazy.

So one of the girls of the wall survived, but one like had a really hard time, like nearly died because of the probably almost overdose. So the US Department of Agriculture in Louisville didn't know about his record and they hired him in 1982 to inspect meat and poultry. Oh, dear Lord. So I mean, I don't know.

I don't want him anywhere near my meat. No. Oh, sorry. That's no.

I actually mean meat and poultry. Poultry that's, yeah. Anywhere near your poultry. Never mind.

Okay. Moving on. Okay. Okay.

But like, I guess I was gonna mix it. That would be a felony. So I guess yeah, you probably can't work for the US Department of Agriculture with the public. I'm gonna assume not unless their HR is just not really bad.

I mean, I guess unless you're the president of the United States, then you can have a felony. Oh, like a skin. Yeah. Yeah.

Just peeling off anyway. Okay. So as a USCA inspector, he had a badge that let him access like all kinds of different slaughterhouses, which would have been a great place to dispose of a body. It's true.

Yeah. Because they just incinerate the carcass, right? Usually, yeah, that's, you know, or like they have an incinerator for whatever they don't use, right? You know, when they've processed all the meat and stuff, because you're not trying to bury all that.

So yeah. So bank records, when they looked at his bank records, it showed that he had actually been at the Liberty National Bank branch in that same mall, the Bashford Manor Mall, a couple of hours before it disappeared. Okay. So we at least within a time period can trace into that area.

Yeah. A polygraph, he took a polygraph and it concluded that he was lying when he denied responsibility for his disappearance. So interesting. Now, obviously polygraphs can't be used in court.

And everything like from all the lawyers I've ever talked to and people in this realm that are like, never take a polygraph. Yeah. If I just don't do it, even if you're like, even if you're innocent, just don't do it. Yeah.

Because definitely you're guilty. But they're just so they can be so misleading. Absolutely. So never take a polygraph is the moral mystery.

Okay. So he was actually convicted of attacking a 13 year old girl who was a police officer's daughter during which the girl was stabbed. He was convicted of attempted rape and burglary and sentenced to 50 years in prison. This is after, you know, everything.

So they had the polygraph, but they didn't have enough, you know, the charge them with Anne's disappearance because there's no there's nothing. Nothing. Nothing. So later, this is when he attacked this 13 year old girl, sentenced to 50 years in prison, police questioned him again about Anne's disappearance, but he couldn't, but they couldn't get enough evidence out of him to charge.

So he actually wrote a letter to the Courier Journal and said that he was innocent and his disappearance. He said, quote, I've never seen Anne bought live in my life. So it must be fact because he wrote it down. Oh, yeah.

Although, I mean, what, so these other crimes, were they able to just, I mean, because there wasn't really DNA back then, but were they able to say, yes, he was the perpetrator of this? Did he say, yes, I was the perpetrator of this? I mean, I think because like this girl lived, you know, he's gonna make them attempted rape and so yeah, I think that's kind of how that all came out. Yeah.

And you know, you do wonder like, you know, there's there's rape, which is horrible in itself, but also murder, which are two different things. Right. He let the other girls live. Maybe he didn't.

I don't know. Yeah, I don't know much about that other case. So I don't know if like, we would like escalate to murder. Yeah.

Unless she would say something like, I'm gonna tell, I'm gonna, you know, yeah. So in that same letter, he said that he had, quote, no reason to lie about this matter, because I'm dealing with terminal lung cancer, which is already metastasized, which like, so he's saying I've got nothing to lose by saying this, but I still don't believe it. Okay. So he died in October 2002.

He was actually released for about three months for medical parole. So I guess they let him die, like not in prison. So I bet he was released to like a hospice house or something like that. Probably.

Because he was actively dying. Okay. So fast forward into 2008, 25 years after Ann's disappeared, the Louisville Metro Police Department, which is what the original police department had kind of merged into after so many years, they announced that Oakley was the guy who did it. How do they know?

I've heard about now. So official cited new evidence, including a statement from a former cellmate who said he had confessed. They did a polygraph of that cellmate, which showed that he was being truthful. So the Commonwealth attorney, David Stenville, said, you know, I, we believe that this is correct, that, you know, police got it right.

This is the guy close the case. But he denied the God lives request to charge Oakley because he was already dead and he couldn't defend himself. And it's kind of circumstantial still, you know, right? Like you've got this cellmate that's confessing, but I mean, I get it.

Like he's not there to defend himself. Right. So I don't know. Well, and you're not able to get any kind of justice really, the guy's dead.

So yeah, but maybe that gives you somewhat of peace and would have an answer. Yeah. Yeah, he probably was all along. And also there's never been a body.

Never been a body. Yeah. So in 1990, so back in a little bit, there was actually a death in made in Texas named Michael Lockhart. And he claimed that he killed Kotlin and buried her at Fort Knox.

And actually provided a map to where he said he buried her. But there was no, like, you ever heard the saying locked up like Fort Knox? Yeah. You're gonna bury a body for an ox?

Okay. Yeah. No, and I'd like, I mean, they did their due diligence and investigated and it wasn't true. People with their claims just get me.

So in like, this guy's on death row. So what's like, why are you? Not arrived. You guys want notoriety, you know?

So yeah, um, so 2008, you know, that's kind of when they were like, okay, this is we've got the guy that's definitely this guy. However, they still have it listed still listed as an open case because there was no conviction. Obviously, it's still technically open. It's considered a cold case due to the amount of time that's passed and the investigation documents fill four filing cabinets.

Wow. That's how much work they've done. Wow. Yeah.

So I think though that the police, like, I think they have, they've kind of, I mean, I guess, unofficially closed the case, right? Because they've got this confession from the cellmate. You know, it's everything lines up. It makes the most sense.

But you still, like, you don't know why, right? And you don't have a body. I think why was you said he had, you know, this like impulse control, this like sexual impulse control. He probably she fit that age.

It was probably he saw her. He had an opportunity and he took it. Yeah. And if he was working at these slaughterhouses, you probably never gonna find a body.

If that's, if that's truly what he, how he disposed of a body. Right. So due to the startling way in which she vanished, which was in broad daylight without any trace, like I said earlier, it kind of helped lead to, you know, Congress creating the center for missing exploited children, not 84, and to coordinate with departments involved in missing person cases. The center actually credits the Gottlieb case with increasing national awareness of missing infected children and revolutionizing how missing children's cases are handled.

One of the new techniques that came out of this investigation was the use of billboards. So this is one of the first cases where billboards were used to try to find somebody. And there were some other like, you know, widespread awareness tactics that they used on this case. Yeah.

So unfortunately, though, there hasn't, you know, the bodies never been found. Her father actually passed away. I think pretty recently, maybe in somewhere, let me see where he passed away. I think he died maybe in 2023, but mom stole life.

I believe the mom stole it. Yeah, he died in 2023 about 40 years after he was 84 when he died. Wow. One thing I thought was interesting though, when I read that article was they said they never, they didn't do anything.

So like, they didn't talk about it. Like her disappearance, they didn't, you know, could you see some families that like, that becomes their whole identity, which is fine. I mean, just whatever way you cope. I mean, how you cope, but but they didn't.

They like, they never talked about it. They never did anything. Like they said something about, you know, they didn't celebrate her birthday more than just like counting the years of how long she'd been gone. And I guess that was their way of coping with everything.

I mean, obviously they still were, you know, very invested because they wanted this guy charged, right? But I don't think publicly. Well, and a lot of people are just very private. You know, they want to deal with it privately.

And sometimes it does just make it harder to, you know, dwell on it or talk about it. I think it's cultural too. I was going to say that. Yeah, because it's kind of like stiff upper lip.

Yeah, keep moving on that. And I think like just what I know about like, Jewish culture even, like you have your, like when someone dies, you have your seven days of whatever it's called morning morning, it's called something specifically, right? In that, you know, religion and culture, but like you do your seven days and then you, right, you uncover them yours and you move on. I mean, so I don't know.

Well, I mean, I, it kind of seems like there's the, this is the answer. I hope so. But you know, and I always think I said this before with, with someone's passing, you know, he was most likely reunited with her and now you know, all the answers, you know, you know, so. But yeah, I just, you know, wish that they had been able to like, truly tie him to it, maybe find a body.

Yeah, have that kind of closure. Absolutely. But, but you know, I mean, people are finding missing people and family members all the time, yeah, like they're finding bodies, bodies are being found, you know, they'll do construction in an area they'll find a body, you know, so you just never know. Yeah, you never know.

So, but I don't want to, like, it's almost one of those like you don't have a body, so you still have that, like what if she's still out there? Kind of, like that little piece in the back of your mind, I feel like I'll never go away. Like what if, you know, and this is kind of before like human trafficking and that kind of thing, but what if she was taken and taken to another country, you're taken by another family or, you know, she had amnesia and doesn't know who she, you know, I don't know. I mean, it's the unknown.

She would be 54 years old. Yeah. So, I don't know. Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

Yeah. But yeah, until you have that answer, I mean, you just don't know. You just always are left wondering. Yeah, just that.

That's very sad. Wow. Well, thank you for the story. Yeah, that's a nice story.

What an uplifting tale. That we always tend to serve. If you want to talk to Haley, please do. You can email her at mountain mysteries dot Appalachian at gmail.com.

You can find us on Facebook at mountain mysteries, tales from Appalachia, find us on Instagram at mountain mysteries dot Appalachia and or extra content, patreon patreon.com slash mountain mysteries. What was that? So who? No, no, it needs to be like, whoa, baby, patreon.

I don't like the whoa, well, I'm really super into the other trying to solve because I'm trying to log into this thing. Woo. Hi, I'm Haley. Listen, we balance each other out, right?

Because I'm like party over here. And Haley's like, whoa, who? You're like an old curmudgeon or something. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I am. Who would ever guess that I'm the older one.

Okay, here we go. Oh, good grief. All right, we're going to do Portland, Maine. Yay.

Thanks for listening. And me and the curmudgeon will see you next time. Bye. Bye.