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Conditions apply. Offering is 1% loyalty rate reduction for qualifying customers. Visit hyundaicanda.com or your local deal for details. This Sunday, wartime support.
The bill is passed after months of delays. Republican Speaker Mike Johnson moves forward with a historic vote on military aid to Ukraine despite threats to oust him. He's serving Ukraine first in America. Last I've done here what I believe to be the right thing.
Will weapons make it to the front lines in time? For months and months we have been fiddling around where people are dying and is it enough for Ukraine to win the war? I'll speak with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Plus on the defensive, anybody?
That's fair. As Donald Trump's first criminal trial begins, President Biden's approval rating rises in our latest NBC News poll under my predecessor who's busy right now, but enthusiasm for the 2024 election is still the lowest in decades. Steve Bernanki will break down the latest numbers and history lessons. Presidential historian Doris Kearns Goodwin joins me for a Meet the Moment conversation reflecting on the resilience of America even in turbulent times.
I always feel so, so positive about what history can teach us because we lived a really hard times before. Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News chief Washington correspondent Andrea Mitchell, Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher and Republican strategist Matt Gorman. Welcome to Sunday Meet the PRESS from NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history. This is Meet the PRESS with Kristen Walker.
Good Sunday morning. We begin with our brand new NBC News poll and the headline, president Biden is closing the gap with former President Trump. Trump leads Biden by two points in a head to head match up 46 to 44%. Biden has narrowed that deficit against Trump from five points in January.
And when third party candidates including Robert F. Kennedy are included, Biden leads by 2 points 39 to 37%. The President's job approval has also ticked up to 42% of 5 points from January. The last time we've seen a 5 point increase for an incumbent president in their re election year was Bill Clinton in 1996.
There are still troubling numbers in the poll for Biden. He trails Trump by 22 points on dealing with inflation and the cost of living. All of it comes amid a major foreign policy development. Six months after the president delivered an Oval Office speech pledging wartime aid for Ukraine, $61 billion in new funding finally passed on Saturday, 311 to 112.
The bill was passed. A moment of bipartisanship in a Congress primarily defined by its dysfunction. 101 Republicans and 210 Democrats voted in favor, but more Republicans 112 opposed it. Congress also passed away for Israel and Taiwan, along with a measure to force TikTok's parent company Bike Dance to sell the app.
New aid for Ukraine came only after Republican singer Mike Johnson, who once opposed it, didn't about face and put his job on the line to get it through amid threats from free far right Republicans to oust him. If we turn our backs right now, the consequences could be devastating. No, listen, as I said many times, I don't walk around this building being worried about a motion to vacate. I have to do my job.
We did. I've done here what I believe to be the right thing and that this will allow the House to work its will. And as I said, you do the right thing and you let the ships fall in. Now, the Pentagon has said it has a massive infusion of military aid for Ukraine ready to go.
It comes as Ukrainian President Zelensky said that without this support, we will have no chance of winning. Ukraine's top military commander issued a bleak assessment of the army's positions on the Eastern front, saying they have worsened significantly in recent days. And the top American military commander in Europe told members of Congress Russia will soon be able to fire 10 shells for every Ukrainian shell. If one side can shoot and the other side can't shoot back, the side that can't shoot back loses.
Joining me now is the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. President Zelensky, welcome back to Meet the press. Good morning. Well, President Zelensky, it is an historic morning.
I want to get your reaction to this major news. The House approving $61 billion in aid to Ukraine. It's expected to pass through the Senate. But you have been asking for this aid for six months.
In that time, you have run out of ammunition, you've suffered setbacks on the battlefield. Will you get this aid in time to make a difference? Yeah, it's so important. Let me say thanks to the Congress for the Magetan support.
And let me say thanks to Speaker Johnson and President Biden. Indeed, it is so important, the support from the United States of America and of course the support of the American people because of course, the political decisions depend on the republic opinion. And this aid will strengthen Ukraine and send a powerful signal that it will not be the second Afghanistan. The United States will stay with Ukraine, will protect the Ukrainians and they will protect democracy in the world.
This is the gel of leadership and strength of the United States. And I think indeed now we've reached this important moment. Half a year been waiting and I'd like to say thanks to all the team on my side and on the yes side, the team who did everything so that we will get this positive vote. And today we definitely need this aid.
And Kristen, you know, we really need to get this to the final point. We need to get approved by the Senate and then we want to get things as fast as possible so that we get some tangible assistance for the soldiers on the front line as soon as possible, not in another six months, so that they will be able to move ahead. You know, you said this week, President Zelenskyy, that Ukraine would have no chance of winning without more US Support. And I guess the question is, can Ukraine now win this war or is the United States merely giving you enough aid to prolong this war?
Thank you. I think this support will really strengthen the armed forces of Ukraine and we will have a chance for victory if Ukraine really gets the weapon system which we need so much. Thousands of soldiers need so much. And this aid should not be just spreading thin layer all over, but it has to end up in tangible weapon systems, some really crucial weapon system which you have to get the long range artillery.
And I really appreciate that it mentions at the camps of long range weapons. And it's important because we need long range weapons to not lose people on the front line because we have, we have casualties because we cannot reach that far. Our weapons are not that long range, so we need it. And air defense.
This is crucial. These are the priorities Now, President Zelensky, as you know, this aid was held up for half a year because there is fierce opposition to sending war aid to Ukraine, particularly amongst some Republicans. How long should Americans be expected to fund the war in Ukraine? Americans are not funding in Ukraine.
They first and foremost protect freedom and democracy all over Europe. And Ukraine is fighting and Ukraine is sending its best sons and daughters to the frontline. And it reduces the price for all Europe, for all NATO. It reduces the price for everyone, including the US as the leaders in NATO.
US army now does not have to fight protecting NATO Countries, Ukrainians are doing that, and it's only the ammo that the civilized world is providing. And I think it's a good decision. That is why you do need to keep supporting. Well, Ukraine stands.
There's no direct war between us or NATO and Russia aggression. So Ukraine is still fighting, and Ukraine is protecting all the others. President Zelensky, can you give Americans a sense of the timeline? Will you still need as much aid this time next year, or do you think you can turn the corner on Russia?
What's the timeline? Well, it depends on when we actually get weapons on the ground. As you said, if we get it in half a year. But we've had the process stalled for half a year, and we had losses in several directions.
The losses in men, in equipment in the east. It was very difficult, and we did lose the initiative there. Now we have all the chance to stabilize the situation and to overtake the initiative. And that's why we've been.
We need to actually have the weapon systems. When we get it, when we have it in our arms, then we do have the chance to take this initiative and to move ahead and to protect Ukraine. But giving you a specific timeline of the war. Well, it depends on how soon we get this aid.
There are so many variables, so many factors. And sometimes when we protect the important line, you retreat because you don't have enough forces and equipment, and then retaking the client would take two or three times more. I'm not saying that this is how it's going to end up, but things are possible. And I can give you an example with F16.
It's a great example. The decision to supply F16 fighter jets to Ukraine. We had it a year ago. One year ago, we got the positive response.
Should receive these fighter jets so that not only air defense protects the sky, but we also have modern jets. A year has passed. We still don't have jets in Ukraine. So it's very difficult to do any forecast.
I would like us to be open and very, very specific from the moment we get our hands on these weapons systems. Well, from that moment, we can talk about the timeline. President Zelensky, Ukrainian intelligence suggests that the Kremlin is preparing for a major offensive in the coming months. You have said by your own account that they are prepared to outgun you 10 to 1 in firepower, by some estimations.
Will you be ready for that offensive? We are preparing. The personnel is preparing. The soldiers are engaged in training.
And I don't want to repeat myself, but we are waiting for the weapon systems because we want to have the brigades full equipped. Some of them are exhausted. We need to replace them. But these new brigades, they have to have equipment.
Russia wants to mobilize 300,000 people by June 1. We are getting ready for this by May 9. Russia expects that in the east of Ukraine they will take Chasiv Yar city. I visited the region recently.
I talked to the soldiers. The soldiers say that they lack equipment. They need to fight Russian reconnaissance drones, which are essentially guided, and we need artillery shells. I hope we'll be able to stay and the weapons will come on time and we will repel the enemy and then we'll break the plans of the Russian Federation with regards to this full scale offensive.
I want to ask you, President Zelensky, about reports of a lack of morale. Some 650,000 men who are eligible to fight, we are told, have fled Ukraine. You have lowered the draft eligible age, but you've resisted a full call up of all Ukrainian men. What do you say to young men who don't want to fight, who don't want to risk their lives in this war for their country?
This war is the war for the sake of all of us. This is our land. We don't have another place to go. And citizens of Ukraine understand that.
Of course there are people who don't want, who are not ready. But we do have this mobilization campaign. We do have a draft, we do have strong army and we can be shrank. In Russia, of course, they have more people and people are forced there.
So, for example, if someone in Russia is deserting battlefield, they just shoot them on site. We cannot do that because we have democratic values. We're living in the democratic country. So to be frank, on Ukraine we have a lot of people who are ready to protect the motherland.
But of course, the motivation, the morale can go down, especially when they go to the front line and they see the felt. There are no shells, there are no equipment. That's why the aid from the States is so important. And people who are trained, they need to be trained by professional people and they need to have the equipment to be used so that they have this equipment not only on the training field, but also on the actual battlefield.
And then indeed they can show the performance on the frontline. This is very important. And then they will indeed defend the motherland. The Washington Post is reporting that Donald Trump has privately said he could end Russia's war in Ukraine by pressuring Ukraine to give up some territory like Crimea, like the Donbas region.
What is your reaction? And realistically, Speaking. Do you see this war ending in a negotiation with Russia? I'm a president of a country at war and rumors and different hearsay.
I don't believe that when Trump comes here and would tell me their formula of peace, then I would be able to provide a response. At the moment, I know that, well, things Putin wants for sure, they cannot happen. And I'm sure that people who know him well, they know that you can never trust Putin. It's impossible.
So the strategy of ending the war should be based not on the words which Putin says or some other people from his entourage say, but on something very specific, something very tangible. And Ukraine, that is independent and democratic. And I'm confident that everyone is interested in that. All the political leaders in the US Also are interested to have Ukraine independent and sovereign and democratic.
It's from both Republicans and the Democrats. President Zelensky, back in February, Donald Trump encouraged Putin to invade NATO countries that he doesn't believe are contributing enough to defense spending. What kind of a message do you think that sends to the world? I don't know the details of that speech.
I know for sure. If Ukraine fails, then Putin definitely will invade the Baltic countries. Why? Not because there's some interesting idea strategy, but because Putin wants to return the influence of the Soviet Union and he really wants to retake to force the war.
He wants to retake all former Soviet republics and now independent states, whether they are Indo or not. He doesn't care. That is why this is his strategy. Of course, after the Baltic states, also Poland and part of Germany would still be big picture.
Germany's top military official has warned that Putin could be ready to attack NATO countries in as soon as five years. Following up on what you are saying, how big of a threat do you see Putin to the West? I think he does want to go further. As I said, he wants to reinstate Soviet Union and the Soviet and Soviet bloc.
And they do that in terms of information misinformation. They just drive different political groups and democracies, not only in Europe, in Latin America, in Africa. They have the influence everywhere. And they do this to split the world.
So the risk is high. I think this German said that it's not about the wish of Putin, but it's that if Putin is not stopped, then Putin is ready to attack, to attack NATO, even if you look at the sheer size of the army and weapons that they have. So we have to be ready to stop him now because of frozen conflicts. Well, we've seen that in Georgia.
We've seen that in other countries. So if we give the big pause to Putin, if he frees the war right where we are, this will enable him because all his industry will start working not for the warning, but he will start working for the war against later. President Zelensky, you are not just a president, you are also a father. You have survived multiple assassination attempts.
Tens of thousands of your fellow citizens have been killed and injured. Millions have left their homes. Have you ever lost hope? You can never lose hope.
You can never lose freedom. You can never lose independence. Otherwise you just lose everything. You lose your state, you lose your security for your children, like all the children you train are my children.
I will lose everything. And I had to show the example. If I lose hope, my children would lose their future in an independent country and then we would lose Ukraine as the nation. It's not only about the territory, it's about ourselves, our identity.
So we cannot lose hope. We've had different moments. Some were very cruel. There were moments of challenge.
And I'm sure in the history of the next days they also had many moments when the people of the US had to fight for their independence. We remember the period of Franklin when many people lost hope. Some people migrated to France, but some people raised the banner the other states banner of independence. And some people were skeptical on both sides of the ocean in Europe too.
But people didn't give up. And I think, well, you got the independent country and the world got this great democracy. So we cannot lose hope either. President Zelenskyy, thank you for being here on this monumental morning.
We really appreciate your perspective and having a chance to talk to you when we come back. Steve Kornacki is here with the results of our latest NBC News poll. Drop off in a new Hyundai laundry today with $0 down during the Hyundai Advantage sales event. Take advantage of the $1,000 Spring Drive bonus and lease the 2026 else to purchase $73 weekly at 4.99% for 60 months and you're covered by a laundry's best in class 5 year new car warranty.
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Expinity Imagine that subscription automatically here at 65.99 plus tax freeze until canceled on the rants May 20, 2026 prices subject to change. Visit today.comxfinity for full on returns and details. Welcome back. For more on the NBC News poll, I'm joined by national political correspondent Steve.
We're not going to break down the numbers. A lot of headlines here, Steve. Absolutely, Chris. I think the biggest headline this let's give you the bottom line.
Donald Trump does lead Joe Biden 46 to 44% in our poll. But this is a tightening from our last poll. You can see three months ago Donald Trump had a five point lead against the current president at five point lead now down to two points. So there's progress here for Biden in the last three months coming after the state of anti side of the campaign blitz.
Yeah, he's in the Democratic primary such as they were coming to an end. Perhaps there's Democrats rallying around Biden too. Also, I think not coincidentally this slight improvement here for Biden tracks with a slight improvement in his job approval rating. It now sits at 42%.
Again, go back to our last poll. Look at this. He was an all time low for him territory last time around. Now back over 40% is the highest.
Biden's job approval has been in our poll since last spring. So again, they're encouraging signs for Joe Biden. Although broader picture here, this 42% approval rating history says probably by itself not enough. He's probably going to need more because put this in some context here, these are other recent presidents at this point in their reelection campaigns, where were their approval ratings?
Again you see Biden's 42%. One thing that jumps out, they were all higher than Joe Biden. The other thing, the two presidents on this list who did not win re election, of course, Donald Trump four years ago he was at 46%. And back in 1992, George H.W.
bush, he was at 43%. Biden below both of those. The last time Biden's been at this level, 46%. You gotta go back to the start of 2023, the last time he was higher than that.
You gotta go back to the summer of 2021, his first year as president. So Biden has some work to do on that front. Also troubling for the Biden campaign, the erosion of public confidence on a number of critical fronts. We asked voters in this poll a number of leadership characteristics here.
Which candidate would be better? There are two, only two where Biden has the edge over Trump. Abortion. We've talked about this one, seen this for a long time.
Here it is. Certainly that's the biggest Biden advantage in this poll. And then bringing the country together. Biden, you see, performing better than Trump.
I think the headline here, you add those two numbers together, you're not even close to 100. That means a lot of voters think neither candidate is better on that and on every other front. Here we talk about the erosion for Biden and now to see it. Look at these numbers.
Trump advantages on all of these traits. And I stop here because competent and effective, that was President Biden's the crux of his campaign pitch back in 2020. And we actually pulled this question in 2020 and it was basically the exact opposite. It was Biden with about a 10 point advantage over Trump.
Again, same with handling a crisis. Biden had the edge over Trump. How about this? It's the former president, the current president.
We only see matchups like this. Well, now we can measure who has the strong record as president. And again, Trump outpacing Biden on that front. And again, you got to mention this one too necessary mental and physical health.
We asked this four years ago. It was a wash. It's now a clear liability for Joe Biden. So these are all troubling numbers for Biden.
It's not to say there aren't warning signs for Donald Trump in this poll either. Well, Trump and his campaign are hoping a third party candidate might give them a little bit of a boost. But our poll shows it's a little bit murkier than that. That's the thing because again, we show a 46, 44 race here for Donald Trump.
Again, all those liabilities for ahead too. Trump folks have been hoping is rfk. Third party candidates, they gobble up some votes and Trump doesn't need to get the 50%. But look what happens when we add RFK's name to the mix.
Suddenly we have a new leader. Joe Biden 39%, Donald Trump 37%. There's Kennedy getting 13%. In other words, we're seeing by better than 2 to 1 margin it's Trump voters who are flipping over to Canadian scenario, not Biden voters.
You see right here, 15% of Trump voters. When we add RFK's name to the mix, they go to RFK. Only 7% of Biden voters. There's a big change right there.
Defy conventional wisdom, there's no doubt about that. Absolutely. I think we haven't seen this in other polls. And one final note, Christian as well.
Is this the question of enthusiasm I thought this really jumped out here. The most engaged voters, those who voted in 2020, voted in the midterm elections. Those folks are voting for Biden by nine points. Where Trump's strength is why he leads Biden.
It's voters who don't typically turn out in many elections didn't vote in 20, didn't vot they are with Trump and win 20 points. And the warning sign for Trump in relying on this kind of voter is this. We are seeing the lowest level of interest since we started asking this question back in 2008. Are you very interested in the election?
64%. That's lower than any other time at this point where we have polled this before. So again, lower interest. Maybe those voters who are the polls are saying before Trump, are we sure they're actually going to vote in November?
Trump can't be better. We'll have to see if that ticks up as we get closer to election Day. Steve Kornacki, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it.
When we come back, the jury will hear opening statements in Donald Trump's first criminal trial. What impact will it have on voters? The panel is next. Welcome back.
The panel is here, NBC News chief Washington correspondent Andrea Mitchell, Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher and Matt Gorman, former senior communications advisor for Tinska for America. Andrea, I have to start with you. There's a lot to unpack. Let's start with President Zelensky.
What were your key takeaways from our conversation that he's really worried about the surge, the Russian surge and what we expect to be major in July. This six months was critical. They had a really good chance of winning before the sixth month of no aid from the US the weapons that only the US can provide. And after six months they can lose.
They can lose if the weapons don't get there soon enough. So now it's supply chain. He pointed out that the F16s are still not there and they were approved a year ago. And talking to Ukraine officials, as you heard him today, they need the long range weapons.
They still don't have the atacms, those long range missiles supposedly in the package. The administration is deciding. Ukraine officials say they've got to get them because of Russian launches, the artillery launches. Not only do they have the ammo, they don't have the ammo.
They don't have the manpower. Ukraine doesn't have anymore. But Russia has that huge advantage, 10 to 1 in artillery, but they can't take that artillery out because they don't have long range missiles. US has been really worried about not letting them fire into Russian terrorists territory.
The Ukrainians tell me they really want to, but they do have that restriction. They have restrictions that frankly that are not placed on Israel and they're watching Israel getting, you know, despite all the controversy for Gaza, Israel has the support that Ukraine doesn't have. And I also think that it's really interesting that he jumped up the two questions you asked about Donald Trump. He knows this is a close election and the bottom line is he knows that Donald Trump has said that Ukraine can be forced to the negotiating table to give territory up to Russia by next November if Donald Trump is elected.
I think it's all possible that Ukraine can still lose this war despite their great spirit. Well, I'm so glad that you bring up two points. One, that he did choose his words very carefully on Donald Trump and the factor of Israel, the fact that Ukraine is so concerned Matt Gorman that the world has forgotten about them as attention has turned to the Middle east, to what's happening in G. And of course House Speaker Mike Johnson really at the center of the battles for more aid for Ukraine and Israel.
Both were approved yesterday. But there's so much opposition within his own party. Three conservative Republicans threatening to oust him over this. But it seemed like the temperature was turned down a little bit yesterday.
What is your assessment? How in jeopardy is his job in the short term? Not as much as I think people think. The real threat to Mike Johnson isn't now.
It's November. It's post election. Republicans choose their leaders for the next Congress. They'll already choose a Senate leader.
I think until then Democrats and Republicans will call together a majority on a motion to vacate if it comes up. And I think Republicans will hold on until then. Let's face it also too no one wants to speak right now other than Mike Johnson. I thought it was notable that speech and timer voted with Johnson.
Notable who didn't at least define if a successful move is to be made. It's not deliver the only member of elite Republican leadership who did not vote for it. Cornell, let's talk this poll. President Biden narrowing the gap with former President Trump.
Not a big surprise. But what stood out to you in the crosstabs? What stands out to me is, well first of all, great interview by the way. Groundbreaking interview.
Spot on. What's the price prize? Polls are closing and polling continue shrinking. Get tired and tighter because that's what happens in this country.
And if you go back to our polling, go back to our polling back in October of last year, Donald Trump was at 46%. What is he throughout all RNBC polling, he got 46%. What is he right now at 46%. Donald Trump, what did he get last election?
He got 46%. His support stays solid. Where I'm worried about or where I even see growth here is I think Donald Trump is at his is at a ceiling and Biden is close to his floor. Where he's off most.
He's off most among young folks. He is if you. And the other part about this is enthusiasm, which I think is really the headline, is if these young voters aren't enthusiastic and they don't show up and break for Biden big. That's how Trump went.
Andrew, pick up on that point because this is all going on against the backdrop of Donald Trump in court for his first criminal trial this week. The fact is we don't know how that is going to play. Up until now, these legal cases have only helped him fundraising, made him, you know, tell people he's the victim, energized his base. And so he's risen in the polls with every indictment.
Now we're going to see him really powerless. The judge has been very effective. And how they handle the gag orders yet to be seen while Joe Biden is campaigning. The problem for Joe Biden and the Democrats is it's Trump is crowding out the trial, is crowding out everything else.
So Joe Biden goes out and does major policy things. The steel towers in Pennsylvania, everything else that he's doing, student loans break into a little bit, but everything else is crowded out. And it's the trumpet story. And that's what happened in 2016 to Hillary Clinton and that could be replicated this year.
I think it's really, I think the enthusiasm issue with the young voter issue is critical. And as long as this war in Gaza goes on, this is going to be a problem with young voters because they have an offer. That offer is RFK Jr. And I know your poll shows that RFK Jr.
Would hurt Trump more than Biden hypothetically. And it's very early in polling, you know, to say he would. But I think the White House, I know the White House is more afraid of it, his family certainly is, because it was very hard for those siblings to come out and do that. They all did it because they think he really hurts them, Joe Biden, more than Donald McCormick.
What about all of that? Yeah, look, I was encouraged because when I was going into the trial, I was nervous that all the talk was going to be simply coming from Trump, his message was about himself and the trial. I was surprised when going to vote day got a smart lean into issues like immigration, the migrant crisis and crime. There are weighing issues, as we saw in the poll for Republicans and Trump.
He needs to continue to do that, get a message about himself while he's sitting in the courtroom. How does the courtroom optics play? I do think about him dominating the news, but it's negative news. This is different.
He doesn't look strong. He looks weak there. And to a certain extent, I don't mind if he's, if he's being, if he's in court every day dominating news because it's negative news. Okay.
All right. Great conversation. We covered a lot of ground. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you all. When we come back, as the athletes prepare for the Summer Olympics in Paris, we look back on the US Decision to boycott the Games after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Army president is next.
Welcome back. We have officially crossed the 100 day mark to the 2024 Olympics as Paris prepares to host the competition this summer. But the Olympics are not just about sports. They've also made history.
History. United States led an international boycott of the 1980 Games in Moscow to protest the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan. President Jimmy Carter announced his historic decision right here on the press. Neither I nor the American people would support the sending of an American team to Moscow with Soviet invasion troops in Afghanistan.
I've sent a message today to the United States Olympic Committee spelling out my own position that unless the Soviets withdraw their troops within a month from Afghanistan, that the Olympic aids be moved from Moscow to an alternate site or multiple sites or postponed or canceled if the service do not withdraw their troops immediately from Afghanistan. I would not support sending an American team to the Olympics. And you can watch the Paris Olympics this summer on NBC and streaming on Peacock. When we come back, Presidential historian Doris Burns Goodwin joins me for our Meet the Moment conversation with lessons from the past as America's democracy is being tested once again.
Welcome back. As she likes to say, Doris Kearns Goodwin has spent most of her career writing about dead presidents, immersing herself in their papers, diaries and letters in an attempt to bring them back to life. In a new book, an Unfinished Love Story, the presidential historian turns that same attention to her marriage. Before his death, she opened more than 300 documents and memorabilia with her husband, Richard Goodwin, who served as a speechwriter for President John F.
Kennedy, a time capsule of their life in the 1960s. In her 20s, Doris was chosen to be a White House Fellow for President Lyndon Johnson, one of only three women out of the 16 fellows selected and developed a loyalty and closeness to President Johnson which has lasted her entire life. I sat down with Doris for Meet the Moment conversation on her new book and the resilience of America. Even in turbulent times.
You have typically written presidential biographies. This is a biography to some extent, of your husband, and it is also a love story. What was the process like of writing this book as compared to all of your other incredible works? I'm so used to writing about presidents who had archives, and I would want to talk to them.
I knew them so well because it took me so long to write those books, longer to write the book about World War II than the war to be fought, longer the Civil War than twice the Civil War. And I would always ask them questions. They never answered me. So this time I had this guy, my guy, right across the hall from me in the same study, and I was able to talk to him and he'd answer my question.
And he had an archive that was a mini archive of what presidents have. Memos, diaries, letters. He just had saved everything in 300 boxes and finally decided when he turned 80, to open them. And what it really opened was a door to the 1960s, a decade that I'd lived in, but I was able to learn through him.
Starting at the beginning with John Kennedy, ending with Bobby Kennedy's death in the Democratic Convention. You talk about the fact that after your husband passed, it was a struggle for you to finish this project. That was a labor of love, you write. I found myself edging toward a commitment to finish the project influenced by headlines announcing divisions between black and white, old and young, rich and poor.
Divisions that made it increasingly evident that the momentous issues emanating from the 60s remain the unresolved stuff of our everyday lives. I think that's what really decided me. I knew if I were going to work on it, it was gonna take years. My book takes so long.
So it was a huge commitment, and I was gonna be writing it as an historian, not simply as somebody writing about my husband. And so once I realized that the 60s really had a message to the people today, and I believe that's so because we look at the 60s in a sad way, because it ended with the riots, ended with anti war violence. It ended with Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy being killed. But when you start at the beginning, it was a decade in which young people in particular were powered by the conviction they could make a difference, and they joined the Peace Corps.
The people who Were in the freedom rides, in the sit ins, in the marches against segregation, marches for the denial of all, the beginning of the women's movement there, the gay rights movement. It's a time when the air is filled with that belief that if you work together, you can change the government. When you look across the political spectrum, do you see leaders right now who are meeting this moment where so many people wonder if our democracy will stay intact? I mean, I don't know that we're fighting it the same way we need to be.
This is one of the most perilous moments. And there are people, obviously in local areas, there are people in states, there are some people in Washington. But the overall sense is sometimes we become too much of spectators watching what's happening to ourselves. And.
And you know, one of the things Dante said is that the lowest place in hell are for those people in a moral crisis who remain neutral or remain silent. We are in a moral crisis right now. And that's what history. I always feel so, so positive about what history can teach us because we lived through really hard times before.
And these are hard times, however, and it won't get better unless we act, unless we take seriously our citizen responsibilities and use the qualities of character that we need to bring into politics. How afraid, how concerned are you that January 6th could happen again? Again? Well, because we're not remembering it correctly.
That's. That's what history. I was so certain as an historian, I was on television saying this is going to change public sentiment. Just as certain things happened in the 50s that made people understand in the 60s that slavery had to be ended, public sentiment finally got changed.
I thought it had, but everything is so breaking news today. And one thing tops on another. I thought the summer after January 6, when the hearings took place, that would change public sentiment. But I still think in the end that the majority of the people understood what happened in that election.
I think the majority of people are for the basic values that we're talking about right now for democracy. And it's just a matter of them speaking out and recognizing that it is in danger. And it's up to us. It's not up to somebody else.
It's up to us to say that. And the Republican nominee has yet to accept the results of the last election. Within the context of this conversation and your concerns about the nation's democracy, how much of a threat do you think the democracy is facing right now? Do you think the country can survive this threat?
I think the real threat is when the Republican can. Former president says that if he doesn't win, he won't accept the results of this next election. Which means that we may have a recurring battle for who's really elected each time we do this. And that's a real problem.
I mean, all the candidates, when you look at the ones who lost, it's really hard to lose. And every single one was able to say, as Carter did, I promise I'd never tell you a lie. This hurts. It really hurts.
Or Al Gore working on that concession speech that my husband was honored enough to help him on, where he talks about the fact the law of the land has said that this election is lost. I don't agree with it, but I must do it. And Hillary Clinton said, we not only believe in the transition of power, we cherish it. I look at all those, and it just makes you so proud of each one of those candidates who'd been to an election, they'd lost it.
They let down their constituents and they were able to make that transfer of power. And it's an essential part of our democracy that has to happen this next November. As we sit here today, how concerned are you that it may not happen? I am concerned it may not happen, but I somehow think if the majority of the people come out who have different values from that and they vote, voting is absolutely essential.
It's the premium value. As Ellendon Johnson said, it's the one thing that all the rest of our democracy depends on. And what is democracy? You throw a candidate out or you call them in.
You either want to become in or you want to throw them out. We have to be able to do that. And I think if the majority comes out to vote, and the majority never comes out with enough numbers to vote, not only young people, they've made a big difference in 20, 20, 2018, 2022, and they're saying now that they may not vote if they're not happy with either candidate. Again, if they only could know what we felt like in the 60s when we felt we were making a difference.
You feel larger, you feel way, a certain sense of exhilaration, the words you used earlier. And I just hope they feel that this election could turn on them. And the uncommitted people and the undecided people have to come out and vote, and we have to just take the results of the election. That doesn't mean we know how it's going to happen.
But if the overwhelming majority vote, then somehow maybe it won't be as close as we think it's going to be, and then we'll have a clear cut choice. I hear so much optimism in your voice still. Yeah, I think I was born that way. And I think it's the only way we can live.
I mean, it sometimes may sound naive. I mean, I remember thinking what I was feeling when I was at the civil rights march, that we're going to change America. Maybe we didn't change America completely, but we made huge changes at that time. And if you have optimism, at least you have the confidence that if you act, something will happen.
And it may take a long time. As Martin Luther King talked about the ark of the universe, all that stuff takes a long time, but it moves toward justice. And I do believe that. Thank you, Doris Kernsgood, for this incredible conversation.
I'm so glad to have been with you. Well, that is all for today. Thank you for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's me.
Crass. Hey, it's Kate Snow, NBC News anchor and host of the Drink. This month, Demi Lovato is my guest. The global superstar tells me that she is the happiest she's ever been right now.
But getting there, it wasn't simple. Demi opens up about starting in Hollywood young and why she now thinks she may have started too soon. She talks about recovery, her new marriage, and the deeply personal reason behind her new cookbook. The Drink is always about the journey to the top, and this was an honest conversation about what that takes.
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