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Show up for CAMH and rise up for mental health. Register today at sunrischallenge.ca. That's sunrischallenge.ca. This Sunday, tariff turbulence.
This is liberation day. President Trump ramps up his trade fight, expanding steeper tariffs on almost all of America's trading partners. Our country and its taxpayers have been ripped off for more than 50 years, but it is not going to happen anymore. This is not liberation day.
It's recession day. Will the tariffs trigger a global recession? The markets are going to boom. The stock is going to boom.
The country is going to boom. My guests this morning, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessen, Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma, and Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. Plus, X Factor. I feel like this is one of those things that may not seem that it's going to affect the entire destiny of humanity, but I think it will.
Elon Musk's candidate loses in a Wisconsin Supreme Court race he spent millions on. I never could have imagined that I'd be taking on the richest man in the world. And we won! Has Musk become more of a liability than an asset?
And political endurance. I confess that the Democratic Party has made terrible mistakes. It gave a lane to this demagogue. Senator Cory Booker breaks the record for the longest Senate floor speech.
Where does the Constitution live? On paper or in our hearts? What will Democrats learn from his 25-hour protest? Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News Senior White House Correspondent Garrett Haake, Leigh Ann Caldwell, Chief Washington Correspondent for PAC, Neera Tanden, President for the Center for American Progress, and Lanny Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution.
Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press. From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker. Good Sunday morning.
The global fallout is intensifying after President Trump imposed the highest tariff levels against nearly every country in a century. Many economists are now warning President Trump's tariff plan could push the nation closer to a recession, while he insists it will bring the country to a new golden age. It's our declaration of economic independence. For years, hardworking American citizens were forced to sit on the sidelines as other nations got rich and powerful, much of it at our expense.
But now it's our turn to prosper. The risks and uncertainty of this new trade war are causing serious jitters from Wall Street to Main Street, where American businesses and consumers are likely to bear the burden of higher costs. Stocks nosedive in the biggest losses since the COVID pandemic, wiping out a record $6 trillion in value in just two days. World leaders responding, suggesting the Trump tariffs will fundamentally change the global economic order.
The 80-year period when the United States embraced the mantle of global economic leadership, when it forged alliances rooted in trust and mutual respect, and championed the free and open exchange of goods and services is over. The White House's message is to be patient and don't focus on the short-term impact. The markets are going to boom. The stock is going to boom.
The country is going to boom. Come on, let's get the American economy where you would like to see it. Let's say it's a two-year process. What I'd ask folks to appreciate here is that we are not going to fix things overnight.
On Saturday, protesters took to the streets in cities all across the country, speaking out against the Trump administration's moves to fire federal workers, immigration crackdowns, and new tariff policies. The White House has insisted the tariffs are not a negotiating tactic, but President Trump contradicted that message, saying there is room for negotiation. The president made it clear yesterday, this is not a negotiation. The tariffs give us great power to negotiate.
And just hours later, President Trump insisted, quote, my policies will never change. Meanwhile, former Vice President Mike Pence is calling Trump's tariffs the largest peacetime tax hike in U.S. history and warns they could cost American families over $3,500 per year. And on Capitol Hill, there's growing concerns, even among some Republicans, about the president's actions.
Well, there could be short-term pain. It's going to be consumers who bear the cost. Tariffs are a terrible mistake. They don't work.
They will lead to higher prices. Remember what Mama Gump said. Stupid is as stupid does. Let's don't be stupid.
Let's don't have a trade war. And joining me now is Treasury Secretary Scott Bessen. Secretary Bessen, welcome back to Meet the Press. It's good to see you.
It's great to have you back after a very big week. Let's start with the market reaction to President Trump's announcement of his tariffs, as I just laid out at the top of the program. The markets lost more than $6 trillion in value. Was this disruption always part of the plan, Mr.
Secretary? Look, Kristen, markets are organic animals. And you never know what the reaction is going to be. One thing that I can tell you is the Treasury Secretary, what I've been very impressed with is the market infrastructure, that we had record volume on Friday and everything is working very smoothly.
So the American people need to take great comfort in that. And in terms of the market reaction, look, we get these short-term market reactions from time to time. The market consistently underestimates Donald Trump. I remember in 2016, the night President Trump won, the market crashed.
The market crashed. And it turned out he was going to be the most pro-business president in over a century, maybe in the history of the country. And we went on to very high after inflation returns for the next four years. Well, but this was the biggest two-day crash since the pandemic.
And the president on Saturday urging people, quote, to hang tough, saying it won't be easy. And I guess the big question on people's minds, Mr. Secretary, how difficult is it going to be and how long are Americans going to have to hang tough? Well, again, I reject that assumption that there doesn't have to be a recession.
Who knows how the market is going to react in a day, in a week? What we are looking at is building the long-term economic fundamentals for prosperity that I think the previous administration had put us on a course toward financial calamity. But just in terms of the uncertainty, I think, that people are feeling and seeing, and President Trump saying he wants people to hang tough, acknowledging there's going to be what he has described as a short period of pain. Can you help provide some clarity for folks?
How long will this period of uncertainty be? Are we talking about weeks? Are we talking about months? Are we talking about years?
Again, this is an adjustment process. We saw with President Reagan when he brought down the great inflation and we got past the Carter malaise that there was some choppiness at that time. But he held the course. And we're going to hold the course.
And this has been years in the building, years in the making. This unsustainable system, our trading partners have taken advantage of us. We can see that through the large surpluses. We can see this through the large budget deficits.
And also, Kristen, this is a national security problem, which we saw during COVID. We saw during COVID that optimal supply chains are not resilient. And what I could say is the only good outcome from COVID is it was a beta test for what would happen if our supply chains got broken. And President Trump has decided that we cannot be at risk like that for our crucial medicines, for semiconductors, for shipping.
And we are going to move forward. So the American people can know that they are going to have a more secure future. And yet, President Trump promised that he was going to improve the economy starting on day one. He said prices are going to come down.
More than 160 million Americans, Mr. Secretary, as you know, are invested in the market. Many of them have spent their lives saving for their retirement. What is your message to Americans who want to retire right now and who've just seen their lifetime savings drop significantly?
Kristen, I think that's a false narrative. Americans who want to retire right now, Americans who have put away for years in their savings account, I think don't look at the day-to-day fluctuations of what's happening. And, in fact, most Americans don't have everything in the market. Most Americans in a 401K have what's called a 60-40 account.
60 of 40 accounts are down 5 or 6 percent on the year. People have a long-term view. They have a program. The reason the stock market is considered a good investment is because it's a long-term investment.
If you look day-to-day, week-to-week, it's very risky. Over the long term, it's a good investment. President Trump's tariffs are being described as the biggest tax hike on Americans in decades. They could cost the average household thousands of dollars.
Republican Senator Ted Cruz had this to say. I'm going to play it, get your reaction on the other side. Tariffs are a tax on consumers, and I'm not a fan of jacking up taxes on American consumers. Do you acknowledge that President Trump's tariffs will cause prices to go up on a range of goods?
Well, Kristen, what I like is data. And if we look at data from President Trump's first term, and there's a big study that just came out from a group of economists, mostly at MIT, that showed that a 20 percent, 20 percent It's open to it, is what I hear you saying. No, no, no, no, no, is I think that we are going to have to see the path forward, because, you know, after 20, 30, 40, 50 years of bad behavior, you can't just wipe the slate clean. All right, let me ask you about one of the big questions.
Recession. As you know, analysts say the chances of a recession are rising in the wake of the tariffs announced this week. Do you believe that President Trump's tariffs are risking the chances of a recession? I don't.
I think we could see from the jobs number on Friday that was well above expectations that we are moving forward. So I see no reason that we have to price in a recession. OK, before I let you go, I know you've been one of the officials spearheading the efforts to get President Trump's budget bill passed on Capitol Hill. It includes the president's plans for tax cuts, extending the 2017 tax cuts, for example.
Are you confident that the president's budget bill will pass before the August recess? We are shooting for even a much earlier date. And Kristen, I can tell you the underreported story in D.C. is, you know, it's fun from our side of the aisle to watch the Democratic chaos, but the underreported story is the Republican unity.
And Speaker Johnson has done an incredible job with a small minority. He got reconciliation instructions out on the first try. He got a clean continuing resolution. Speaker Thune, the Senate, issued the reconciliation instructions.
So things are moving very quickly, very quickly. President Trump called on the Fed chair to lower interest rates. Do you think that Fed chair Jerome Powell should lower interest rates? I think that when we see inflation dropping, that the Fed will do what it always does and lower rates.
But in the meantime, what we can control is the longer term rate, the 10 year rate, which hit a new low on Friday. That's where mortgages are priced. That's where long term capital formation is priced. And you know, back to the tax deal.
When we can pass that, we will have economic certainty. OK, we'll be watching for that timeline. You just laid out very closely. Secretary Scott Besson, thank you so much for being here.
We appreciate it. Thank you. All right. And when we come back, Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma joins me next.
Welcome back. And joining me now is Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma, who is out with a new book, Turnaround America's Revival. Senator Lankford, welcome back to Meet the Press. Thank you.
It's great to have you here. Let's start off by talking about President Trump's tariffs. He calls this an economic revolution. He says that these tariffs are necessary to reset the global economic order and so that the United States is treated fairly on the world stage.
How do you respond to that? Do you agree with any part of that? I don't agree with any part of that. And unfortunately, he's wrecking our economy.
I think people have seen their retirement savings on fire. And there he is out on the golf course. That may end up being the most enduring image of the Trump presidency. That is the president out on a golf cart while people's retirement is in flames.
The Treasury secretary saying that people aren't looking at where the retirement savings are. Maybe he doesn't have to. He's got the wealth. He doesn't have to.
Maybe the president with his wealth doesn't have to. But what I'm hearing from Californians is those that have just retired, those are on the eve of retiring, they're terrified of this. And I hope and pray we stay out of recession. But if we head into a recession, it will be the Trump recession.
He will completely own it. This is a completely self-destructive economic act that he's engaged in. And it's not just the tariffs. It's also the freezing of funds, the firing of people, the alienation of our allies.
In California, I'm hearing from farmers who still haven't recovered market share from the tariffs during the first Trump administration. I'm hearing from people in the tourist industry. You have people in other countries now who don't want to come here. Most particularly Canadians are hearing from others, small business people who are telling me that Canadians are saying, don't send us any more products.
In fact, we're going to send you back what you've already sent us. It's the whole range of Trump economic policies that are really hurting people. And speaking of what you are hearing from Californians, the governor of your state, Gavin Newsom, actually says he's pursuing agreements with other countries to try to exempt California from retaliatory tariffs. Do you think that's appropriate?
Do you support California striking unilateral deals with foreign countries? Oh, absolutely. I applaud the governor for doing this. And what's more, I want to encourage people from other countries, if they're considering canceling their vacation plans somewhere else, then come to California.
We will welcome you in California. And I know I speak for a lot of my constituents who are desperately concerned about how we are alienating some of our closest friends and allies, picking unnecessary fights. That is going to be bad for business. Small business people in particular.
OK, well, we have to leave it there. But I want to get your reaction to that. The American workers and the American companies pay the brunt of all those. So far, Americans have paid 12 billion dollars in tariffs.
It's not punishing the Chinese. It's punishing us. Senator, how long are you willing to give President Trump to see if these tariffs, in fact, are working and making the economy better? So that's reshifting the economy back to getting more manufacturing back to the United States.
That's good for us long term. There's no question short term tariffs do cause an increase in price. As Secretary Besson just said, it's a one time increase that happens. I want to get that down.
And when we see some of the rates in some of the other countries that are very, very high, we've got to be able to work those down because our economy is very intertwined globally on this. I want to make sure it's all fair and it works. And one of the clearest examples is Israel has a 17 percent rate. Lebanon, Turkey, Yemen, Saudi Arabia have a 10 percent rate.
We've got to be able to figure out why that's so and be able to bring it down. You know, even some of your Senate colleagues have expressed concern and say, look, if it goes past 90 days, that's going to be a problem. Senator Ted Cruz, for example. Is that the time frame that you're looking at?
90 days? I actually don't have a counter date on it. I think there's more than anything else. This needs to be a short term issue while negotiations are actually happening.
I think once the president starts announcing some negotiations in some different countries, we'll start to see the market calm and we'll start to see the rates come down pretty quickly. Senators Grassley and Cantwell, as you know, have proposed a bipartisan bill. It would basically allow Congress to play a larger role in tariff policy. Senator, will you support this legislation?
I have not gone through that one completely. Let me tell you why on this. Congress already has a role in most tariffs. Many tariffs come in for a couple of months.
The president can impose it. Then it has to be able to come to Congress. The president's using a different authority this time that doesn't have that same trigger that comes to Congress. And I think what Chuck Grassley is saying is, hey, Congress has a role.
Quite frankly, constitutionally, Congress has a key role in any kind of tax policy tariffs, any kind of revenue issues. So it is right for the legislative branch to engage and say, hey, we have a role in all revenue issues and always have for that long term. So we're going to the courts step in on this. Congress will step in on this.
But obviously, the president's also trying to fix a major issue that's been in the country for a very long time. And that's manufacturing leaving the country. OK, I do want to talk about your book. It's called Turnaround America's Revival.
One of the things that strikes me in reading this is your optimism, Senator. You have this rallying cry basically for people to get engaged, for people to get involved. You talk about the fact that right now America is drifting instead of intentionally sailing. What do you say to those people who have just given up on American politics?
Yeah, reengage locally. America is not about our politics. It's about our people. It's about each other.
It's about our families. And the book itself is a focus on faith and politics. And some people say you can't do both. That's not true.
Our faith drives everything that we do. Our faith drives how we affect our families, how we affect our neighbors. But we sometimes disengage our faith from our politics. And we suddenly say, why don't we live my faith consistently with my family, with my politics?
I'm going to scream and yell and be angry. I think, OK, let's let's engage both of those and the core values of who we are to be able to live those principles. We are a nation, ultimately, that is about what's happening locally. And what happens locally affects the nation.
As I say in the book, Washington doesn't change the country. The country changes Washington. And so what changes the country? It's us.
Well, you also write about the fact that you're one of the people spearheading this effort to get this bipartisan border bill passed. It was opposed by some Democrats. It was opposed by some folks in your own party. And a theme in your book overall is doing something is so much better than doing nothing.
As you stand back, do you believe that your party is following that principle right now? We are. We're We are hurting right now, and anything we can do, anything the governor can do, anything I can do to improve the business climate, we're going to do. I want to talk to you about Congress's role, because you just heard me talking to Senator Lankford about that bill that's being proposed in the Senate that would essentially limit the president's power in terms of imposing tariffs.
GOP Congressman Don Bacon plans to introduce the same piece of legislation in the House. Do you think there is enough bipartisan support to move that legislation forward and to effectively block President Trump's ability to impose tariffs? I think so. We saw an early indication of this when my colleagues, Senator Tim Kaine, offered a resolution on the floor to end this so-called emergency with Canada.
That would allow us to essentially curtail at least some of the tariffs. That passed with Republican support. Now, it still would have to get through the House, but there is bipartisan concern with this Trump tax, with this tariff tax, the fact that it is going to push up prices on consumers and already is. So, yes, I think given time, we can get that done, but we don't have time right now.
This economy is in a tailspin, and we need to be arresting that now. I do want to ask you about the Democratic Party. There's a new book out by Chris Whipple who reports that in the days before President Biden's devastating debate performance with President Trump, his first chief of staff, Ron Klain, returned to help him prep. Klain reports that he was surprised by the fact that he thought that President Biden was struggling to focus.
He said he seemed confused about President Trump's policies and even fell asleep by the pool after cutting one debate prep session short. Do you think that former President Biden's advisors misled the American people about his capacities? You know, it's hard for me to gauge what their, the closest advisors of the president were seeing at the time. I can only speak to the interactions that I had with him, which were, you know, in the months leading up to his getting out of the race, largely ceremonial occasions.
But, you know, I will say this. He made the decision to get out of the race. I think that was the right decision. The vice president, as the vice president, I think ran a great campaign, but could not run away from being a representative of the status quo.
And the fact is that people are hurting and have been hurting for a long time. This is a, frankly, decades in the making problem where people are working harder than ever and still can't get by. What Donald Trump is doing right now is making that so much worse, but we have to address it. Both parties are going to need to address this.
Right now, this budget that you're talking about is going to give a massive tax cut for billionaires, and they're going to take it out of middle class families and they're going to explode the deficit and debt. That's just going to move us further in the wrong direction. So we're going to have to grapple with some of the central challenges, structural challenges in our economy. I think the failure of Democrats to do that in the past resulted in our losing the White House.
The catastrophic damage they're doing to the economy now is going to cause Trump and Republicans to lose Congress. But both parties are going to have to tackle this global challenge to our economy. And that takes me to my next question, which is Senator Cory Booker, his twenty five plus hour speech on the floor this week. You actually jumped in at one point to ask him a question to give him a little break from speaking.
I want to play part of his statement back to you and get your reaction on the other side. I confess that I have been imperfect. I confess that I've been inadequate to the moment. I confess that the Democratic Party has made terrible mistakes that have given way to this demagogue.
I confess we all must look in the mirror and say we will do better. Do you agree with Senator Booker that the Democratic Party in his words gave a lane to President Trump? Well, I definitely agree with him. I think we were guilty of not thinking big and not acting big.
One thing that we see, you know, with the Trump administration is you can move the country far and fast if you have the courage of your convictions, if you're willing to be bold. Now, they're being bold in a horribly dangerous, destructive direction, which is really hurting working families. But that's no excuse for Democrats not being bold in our own ideas and pushing the country forward. We're going to have to do that.
And there's nothing that succeeds like winning. We just won a big, important race in Wisconsin. That is a real shot in the arm. The energy you're seeing now manifest around the country in these mass demonstrations show that, you know, the Democratic Party is waking up.
And I think Cory Booker did a lot to help Democrats in Washington in particular wake up and see these are not normal times. We're not going to be able to fight what they're doing in a normal fashion. But in addition to pushing back aggressively and hard and hours in a row like Cory Booker, we're going to have to be pushing hard on our own big ideas. All right.
Well, I want to ask you about someone else who was in the Democratic Party. I guess Mayor Eric Adams now running as an independent in the New York mayor's race. But look, all of the corruption charges were dismissed against him. The judge said that the move, quote, smacks of a bargain trading illegal dismissal for concessions of New York's immigration policies.
You were, of course, a federal prosecutor. How do you see this? Well, this was a totally corrupt bargain between the Trump administration and the mayor of New York in which essentially a deal was struck. We'll make these charges against you.
These anti-corruption charges go away if you'll be a loyal soldier in Donald Trump's immigration army. That's the corrupt bargain that the judge was talking about. And tragically, we're seeing that bargain played out over and over and over again. We're seeing countless lawless actions by the administration going after universities, going after law firms, patently illegal action.
But we're also seeing a lot of surrender to this illegality. Law firms surrendering, universities surrendering. The only way we're going to get through this is if we stand up with courage and defend ourselves, our institution, defend working people, because ultimately the Americans are going to be hurt by this because to the degree that the Trump administration is fixated on rescuing corrupt allies or punishing law firms that stood up to him, they're doing nothing about the fentanyl crisis. They're doing nothing about attacking violent criminals.
They're spending all their time on petty retribution and abusing the Justice Department. I'm having a hearing tomorrow, as you know, on this at 3.30, along with Jamie Raskin. We're doing the oversight Republicans refuse to do of these corrupt acts going on in the Justice Department. All right, Senator Adam Schiff, thank you so much for coming back.
We really appreciate it. Good to have you here. When we come back, the U.S. once fought to remove tariffs to boost economic growth.
We look back more than 30 years. Our Meet the Press minute is next. Stay with us. Welcome back.
President Trump's tariffs marked what could be the end of an era for free trade in North America, one launched over 30 years ago by the North American Free Trade Agreement or NAFTA. President Bill Clinton signed the landmark deal with Mexico and Canada in 1993, though critics feared it would cost American jobs. President Clinton joined Meet the Press just one week before a major economic summit with NAFTA still hanging in the balance to make his case for the agreement on the world stage. If I go there and NAFTA passes in the House, it will be a clear statement to Asia, number one, that the United States is not withdrawing from the world.
We are determined to be the world's leading economic power by competing and winning, not from running away. Number two, I'll be able to say what I have been saying to the Asians. Asia is important to us, but we want free trade. We want access to your markets.
They will see us developing the NAFTA market, which is not just Mexico. It's Latin America, Canada, the whole nine yards. And that will be enormous pressure on them to conclude these world trade agreements, these GATT talks at the end of the year. It will also help us with Europe to do that.
So I can't tell you how important I think it will be. When we come back, is President Trump gambling with the global economy and his political future? The panel is next. Here after what has been a whirlwind week here, let me start with you.
You heard me talk to the Treasury Secretary to try to get some clarity around what they mean when they ask Americans to hang tough. Take me inside some of your conversations. What are your sources telling you about the time frame? What are they asking from Americans right now?
Look, it's very much a moving target. It depends on who you ask and when you ask them. But I will say you heard from the president of the open. He thinks this is a couple of years of progress here, process.
I think the president also has this political superpower where he can declare victory at any time. I expect to see some of those conversations that the Treasury Secretary was talking about turning into trade deals somewhere along the way with some of these perhaps smaller trading partners. Also, the White House is now heavily focused on getting Congress to step up and pass the tax bill. They are hoping that that would be sort of part two to their economic roadmap here.
And that will get some of the heat off them. But I think it's important to remember that this is a president who's not bogged down by a ton of, let's say, long held policy positions. But tariffs is different. This is something he has believed in for the But also, these are two men who have a long history of dramatic flaring outs with other people with whom they've shared power.
I mean, you can't discount that history when you look forward to how this all ends. Well, we are seeing former President Barack Obama come off of the sidelines for the first time in a long time, weighing in on this moment. I want to play that and get everyone's reaction on the other side. It is up to all of us to fix this.
It's not gonna be because somebody comes and saves you. Will that resonate and why now? Well, I think what's really remarkable is how early President Obama is speaking out. As you knew during the first term of Donald Trump, he didn't speak out really until the elections.
And now I think it's because you are seeing Democrats really scared and concerned, but also some of the institutions that were meant to guard, like law firms and lawyers, who are under attack and caving. And so I think what's really interesting about what the President said is, he said that just late in the week, and then you see these rallies. And again, these rallies are not just in New York. They're in Asheville.
They're in Idaho. They're in Utah. Hundreds, tens of thousands of people. And I'm just saying this is much bigger than the Tea Party was way back in 2009.
Well, politics abhors a vacuum, okay? And what you have is on the Democratic side a complete lack of leadership, arguably, over these last several months. And so it's not surprising that President Obama would try and pick up that mantle. It's not surprising that Cory Booker would have a 25-hour speech.
I think they sense political opportunity one way or another. Now, it's obviously more relevant, potentially, for Cory Booker, who might run for president. But nonetheless, I think this vacuum is very real. And so Democrats will need to start stepping in, in my view.
Yeah, so yes, there is a political vacuum. But the political fortunes can change immediately. And we saw that last week, between Donald Trump and Republicans. Democrats are now, or, and Democrats.
Democrats are now feeling a little pep in their step with the Cory Booker thing, with the protests, and these tariffs are really bad politically for the moment anyway. And so while there needs to be Democrats are searching for a leader, they are also aware that Donald Trump can give them momentum. All right, guys, thank you. Great panel, great discussion.
Thank you for being here. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We'll be back next week.
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