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Conditions apply. Offer includes 1% loyalty rate reduction for qualifying customers. Visit hyundaicand.com or your local deal for details. This Sunday, the abortion legal wars.
A Texas federal judge suspends FDA approval for the abortion pill Mipa Pristo. Another in Washington state directly contradicts them, setting up a likely Supreme Court standoff on the abortion bill. The FDA went beyond their legislative authority. The contents of this judge's ruling is frankly shocking, as the abortion issue gives liberals their first majority on the Wisconsin Supreme Court in 15 years.
Everything we care about Wisconsin. Just the latest in a string of statewide defeats on the abortion issue for the gop. Is anyone in the party going to listen to voters? Plus, lawmakers expelled Two black lawmakers are ousted by the Tennessee legislature after protesting on the House floor for stricter gun laws.
We called for you all to ban assault weapons and you respond with an assault on democracy. They had a protest against House policy. The effort to expel a third Democrat failed. I'll talk to the two ousted lawmakers, Justin Jones and Justin Pearson and Trump charged.
These are felony crimes in New York State, no matter who you are. As the New York case progresses, it's the pro into his mishandling of classified documents that may put Trump in greater legal jeopardy. I'll talk to one of Trump's attorneys in that case, James Trustee. And finally, defying China.
My exclusive interview with House Foreign affairs chairman Mike McCall as he wraps up his own trip to the island of Taiwan. Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett Aminaz, co anchor of PBS NewsHour Republican strategist Brendan Buck and Simone Sanders Townsend, former chief spokesperson for Vice President Kamala Harris. Welcome to Sunday. It's MEET THE press.
Meet from NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history. This is MEET the PRESS with Chuck Todd. And a good Sunday morning. Happy Easter, Passover and Ramadan.
The spring holidays are here. Pope Francis presided over a crowded mass this morning in Vatican City, St. Peter's Square. He's, of course, in a wheelchair right now.
He was released from the hospital a week ago. But he did ride through the crowd on this Easter Sunday morning to the cheers of many. But despite the celebrations this morning, let's be honest, this was no ordinary holiday week. In fact, come November 2024, we look back at this week as one of the most consequential to the future of the Republican Party into our overall electoral politics.
From the duelling abortion rulings Friday night to avert partisan warfare in Tennessee, ironically, the least consequential event may very well be the former president's legal troubles, at least the Manhattan case, though it's still important, obviously. But what's happened this week in Texas, in that courtroom, in Wisconsin, at that ballot box and in Tennessee, in that state house may reverberate the most in our political culture as a widening divide corrodes our institutions from our state houses to the courts. The national divide was crystallized on Friday night and those dueling abortion rules less than an hour apart on specifically the abortion pill over in federal judges. These are legal efforts that are pushed by political activists seeking a decision by the Supreme Court.
There was no actual medical event, no misuse of this pill to trigger this look at the drug. It was simply political activism. This was a drug that was approved at the end of Bill Clinton's presidency four presidencies ago. In Texas, a federal judge invalidated the FDA approval for the abortion pill mifepristone, which in combination with another drug does account for more than 50% of all abortions in this country.
An hour later, it was a judge in Washington state that contradicted the decision and he called the drug safe and effective and ordered the FDA to make no changes. Obviously, the Supreme Court has to weigh in on this one. But the political divided judiciary, which looks very undemocratic these days, is also getting worse on the state level. On Thursday night, in a scene that had echoes of the ugly politics of the 60s, Southern lawmakers in Tennessee did something unprecedented.
They expelled two black Democratic legislators for taking a gun violence protest over the recent national school shooting to the House floor itself. It was a violation of House rules The third legislator, Gloria Johnson, who was white, survived the expulsion vote. Let's be honest, 30 years of aggressive gerrymandering have likely brought us to this moment. In Tennessee, Trump won over 60% of the vote, but Republicans make up more than 75% of the state House.
Half of those Republicans didn't face any opposition in 2022, not even from their own party. The Tennessee legislature has also changed the rules on the House floor that essentially stifles and limits dissent until this weekly. Two lawmakers in Tennessee have been expelled from the House of representatives since the 19th century, one for allegations of sexual misconduct and a second was because somebody was convicted of soliciting a bribe. I'm joined now by the two lawmakers who ousted by the Tennessee House this week, Justin Jones and Justin Pearson.
Gentlemen, welcome to MEET the press. I'm sure this was not the way you thought you'd be appearing on this program or other national programs. Justin Jones, let me start with you. I know you met with Vice President Harris, you met with President Biden.
What was their message to you and what did you hear from them? Well, thank you so much for having us on today. I think the most resounding message we're hearing from the White House across the world and people across this nation is that this attack on democracy will not go on unchallenged. That the Tennessee House Republicans attempt to crucify democracy has instead resurrected a movement led by young people to restore an amarcrase, to build a multi racial coalition.
We're in the midst of a third reconstruction here, beginning here in Nashville. And I think what the message is that we will continue to resist, that this is not the end, their decision to expel us, it's not the ultimate authority, but that the people will hold them accountable both at the county level and in the special election and going forward there are through our legal processes. Justin Pearson, have you talked to any of your colleagues or now former colleagues since this vote? Have any of them explained why you were ousted and Laurie Johnson was not?
It's Justin J. Pearson, and no, I haven't talked to our former colleagues. I have to tell you, the reality is an institution filled with people who are more concerned about supporting the NRA and supporting the Second Amendment than it is protecting the First Amendment rights of children and teenagers. To be able to come to the Capitol and advocate for gun violence prevention laws is not the type of legislation that we deserve and need to have in the state of Tennessee.
The reality is Cameron Sexton, the speaker of the House, called those children and Teenagers insurrectionist. And it's the type of language, it's the type of political ideology that is destructive to our democracy. And what ends up happening is the perpetuation of systems of injustice like patriarchy, like white supremacy that lead to the expulsion of two of the youngest black lawmakers in Tennessee. Representative Pearson, do you feel like you've been just elected to the state House?
Did you ever feel welcome or did you feel unwelcome when you got there? No. It has always been a toxic work environment to work in the Tennessee State Capitol where you have people who make comments about hanging you on a tree and hanging black people on a tree as a form of capital punishment. When you wear a dashiki on the House floor and a member gets up and they talk about your dashiki, saying it's unprofessional, they're really sending signals that you don't belong here.
And that is what the underlying and underground comments and responses that we heard on the House floor and the comments to myself and my brother, Representative Jones is really loud. It's about us not belonging in the institution because they are afraid of the changes that are happening in our society and voices that are being elevated. In fact, Representative Jones, I can't help but wonder, look, you've been, you're a well known political activist to many of these state lawmakers. You had been there for a sit in having to do with Confederate monuments.
There had been some run ins that some lawmakers brought charges against you. They were eventually ended up being dropped. Do you think that history of activism made you a target on the House floor to make you got elected? I think our presence as young black voices for our constituencies, people who will not bow down, those who will not be conformed, that's what made it put hard on us the day we walked into Tennessee General Assembly.
I mean this is the first time Tennessee history we had completely partisan expulsion by predominantly white caucus. All but one member of their caucuses. White have 75 members and we the two youngest black lawmakers in Tennessee. And so what we saw was a system of political hubris.
This was not just a silence of our district, a predominantly black and brown district who no longer have representations. 78,000 people in each of our districts and not have a voice and have someone to deal with. Relations are silent and that's what the saddles are. The people whose voice has been taken on Capitol Hill.
And Representative Jones Scrooge Johnson was telling us, I think you were on with me earlier week how they changed the rules even since you got Elected. And even since Representative Pearson got elected of like just on the House floor, explain some of the rule changes that were made just in the last few years on expressing dissent on the House floor. Well, they've limited debate to what they say. It's five minutes.
But in reality, you ask one question, they'll spend five minutes answering it. And your time is up. You can't reclaim your time. Or the Speaker, Cameron Sexton, an autocrat we're not even calling.
You will call the question and we'll cut off all debate. When we went outside to put the protest, myself, my brother Pierce, our voting machine, we turned off. We couldn't vote on House floor. The speaker, you know, I mean, he runs the Capitol like it's his private palace.
And so there is no democracy, since he tends to the most undemocratic state in the nation. Even a committee of silence when talking about the issues. We try to talk about the issue of mass shootings that plagued our community. We were silenced.
And all they offered our community were moments of silence, in fact, and empty thoughts and prayers. And our community deserves more than that. But instead, responding to the grief and charm of our community, the House speaker came and sex and once again silenced us even the day of our protest. And that's what led us to the.
Well, Representative Pearson, when you look at the maps, right, you see this. Definitely. You can see there's an attempt to limit the political power of Nashville and Memphis, particularly in African American communities. Is there any recourse that you have here?
I mean, this feels like a very aggressive gerrymander that was beyond just protecting incumbents. Yes. What we are seeing is the intentional political dilution of the votes of people who are progressive, of communities that are filled with African Americans and people of color. And that is an intentional and systematic effort of people in the majority party to retain as much power as they can in order to be able to dictate and control what it is that the majority of black populations and progressive populations do.
In fact, the Speaker, Cameron Sexton, called himself a one pointed overseer. This is the type of legislation people of power in addition to government elite, who we are dealing with. And so we realize what's going on in the south, which is you have politicians choosing who to vote, who will vote for them, rather than the people who are supposed to be choosing their elected officials. These are the situations that we get in.
And in the south in particular, we need to pay attention to what's happening with state legislatures. This is a battleground, because if it's gun violence, abortion, there's education, it's health care. The south is continuing to lag behind. The people in power are hurting us.
Yeah, there's a dramatic political lines here that have been drawn that we're going to show graphically in a few minutes. But I want to get to last few questions for both of you. Representative Jones, do you plan to accept a reappointment if it is indeed the case? And if not, do you plan to run any special election to come back?
Yes and yes. You know, we'll continue to fight for our constituents. And what I want to say is that this attack against us, it's hurting all people on our site, even though it's disproportionately impacting black brown communities. This is hurting poor white people.
Their attack on the Marxist hurt of us. I just want to emphasize that because I want to just speak about race, but this is about attack on black, brown and poor white communities, silencing them. These lawmakers behold nra, their own people in their own district, people like Cameron Sexton. And Representative, question for you.
I know that you may get reappointed. Will you accept the appointment and you plan on running the special election? Yes, I would honor the appointment of the Shelby County Commission and to run in a special election. And I've already heard that people in the state legislature in Nashville are actually threatening our Shelby county commissioners to not reappoint me or they're going to take away funding that's in the government's budget for projects that the mayor and others have asked for.
And this is what folks really have to realize. The power structure in the state of Tennessee is always wielding against the minority party and people. And there may very well be some constitutional rights that have been violated here and that could be significant. Courts could be looking at.
Justin Jones, Justin J. Pearson, thank you both for spending a few minutes and sharing your views with us. Thank you so much. Turning out of the unprecedented scene that played out in New York City on Tuesday as Donald Trump became the first former president charged with the crime 34 felony council false flying business records stemming from alleged hush money payoffs he made to adult film star Stormy Daniels at the time that it's alleged to avoid a scandal ahead of the 2016 election, Trump's route to the courthouse to be fingerprinted in a reign was tracked in a OJ like style, overhead that you might expect from the New York City media and on the ground.
He pleaded not guilty. But it is just the first chapter of what's likely to be a very Busy spring of legal developments. You have the civil trial for battery and defamation that begins in just over two weeks in one of two cases New York author E. G Carroll has brought against the former president.
There's the criminal case in Georgia that's focused on the former president's efforts to overturn his 2020 election defeat there. And of course, there's a special counsel pro. I'm into the former president's pot understanding the classified documents where the special counsel, Jack Smith is looking into possible obstruction. The former president addressed that probe at Mar A Lago on Tuesday night.
You have a radical left lunatic known as a bomb thrower who is harassing hundreds of my people day after day over the boxes hoax. You know, the boxes hoax, as we call it. They like to say that I'm obstructing, which I'm not because I was working with NARA very nicely until the raid on my home. Joining me now is James Trusty.
He is one of the former president's attorneys in the classified documents case. Welcome to the Press. Morning. Thank you for giving me a few minutes.
I want to start with that Washington Post report this week. Let me read an excerpt from it. That there's a. They believe the special counsel is looking at obstruction of justice as a crime in the situation.
Investigators now suspect, based on weather statements, security camera footage and other documentary evidence, that boxes, including classified material, removed from a Mar A Lago storage area after the subpoena was served in and that Trump personally examined at least some of those boxes. What's your client's response to this? Well, there's nonsense. I mean, look, there's been a campaign of leaks from DOJ unlike anything I've ever seen.
I was prosecutor for 27 years. I spent 17th as Department of Justice. I don't recognize it anymore. They are consistently leaking.
The angle they're pushing on the obstruction is to try to create some sort of daylight between Joe Biden's possession of documents and President Trump's. And it's not going to work. I mean, they have literally put in everybody a grand jury. You can imagine.
They don't respect any privilege that President Trump holds. And it's desperately trying to find an obstruction angle that just isn't there. Former president himself, though, basically admitted to the crime. This had a place of Shannon, I can't imagine you ever saying, bring me some of the boxes that we brought back in the White House.
I'd like to look at them. Did you ever do that? I would have the right to do that. There's nothing wrong with it.
I know you. I don't think you would do it. I don't have a lot of time, but I would have the right. Right to do that.
I would do that. Where the law does have a right to declassify documents, Presidential Record Acts is clear. There's no, there's no bag right here. No.
Well, you're right, but I think you're misinterpreting the Presidential Records Act. You notice he didn't say I did this. I possessed it. He said I would have the right.
He's correct. Under the Presidential Records act, which is a non criminal statute. That's the key. DOJ and political bureaucrats at NARA criminalize something using criminal tools.
Grand jury, Spanish search warrants for a statute that says, look, ex presidents. Work with nara, work with them for years, figure out what stuff they get. It took 18 years, I think, for Nixon's tapes to finally get to nara. So there's a delay built into the process as they negotiate in good faith.
In this case, NARA was hypersensitive immediately trying to pounce on President Trump to say he's holding on to things he's not entitled to. But the remedy for all of that, if you have that fight between the archivist and the former president, is civil litigation. They jumped right past that with a very happy and willing DOJ when you say that. But they actually spent over 18 months before asking for a subpoena.
He signed, he had a lawyer sign that he had returned all classified documents. So the problem is he actively misled nara. So it forced a situation where they didn't know where else to turn other than the law. I mean, he himself lied via a lawyer, which has gotten that lawyer in trial.
You're putting together a whole bunch of hoops that don't actually connect. Look, Nara had 15 boxes given to them in January of 2022. 15 boxes. Just.
Here it is. Take it. Use these for archives. I've looked through those records.
There's documents. And you have a process. This is what every other president in history has gone through, is a process of communicating and resolving issues as to what stuff he wants to keep and what stuff he wants to give. None of the placehold belongs to him.
He has this mistaken feeling that anything class, and none of it belongs to him, belongs to the presidency. Read the Personal Records act, the Presidential Records Act. There is the ability of any president to deem things as personal, to say, I'm going to keep these as personal. Sure.
If NERA disagrees, they can sue in D.C. that's not what I understand that he seems to. You seem to be, I think, maybe unintentionally misrepresenting the law. When you talk about Nixon.
The law was passed after Nixon. Nixon had a case because the law wasn't in place. The law was effective with the Reagan presidency in 1981. Does Donald Trump think he should get paid?
Is that what's going on? Because Nixon got paid $18 million he wants. Is he just holding these documents for some sort of financial stuff? Ah, that's a cheap shot.
He's writing up this Nixon. Let's go more modern day because you're right about the time he presents the Records Act. Bill Clinton had multiple recordings he kept in a sock drawer of his presidency while in the Oval Office talking to foreign leaders, talking to advisors. He basically said, hey, that stays in my sock drawers.
Personal narrow, didn't blink. Obama foundation had millions of documents in a former, I think, furniture store out in Illinois. Arguable whether it was ever really truly secure. They acknowledged that they had classified documents probably to the tune of thousands.
And there was never any blank by Nara. They in fact said, we're gonna give Nara $3.3 million to help move these documents back eventually when we have a digitized library. That's never happened. Now, the payments may have happened, but that's never happened.
NARA was perfectly comfortable accepting money for a move that won't happen for thousands of classified documents in some place near McDonald's in Illinois and never blinked, never any criminal tools, never any criminal referrals. So look, this has a rotten underpinning in terms of bureaucrats being politicized, followed up by all too eager do to criminalize something that's not a crime, that's a point of president's government. He has done with classified documents, but no former president has ever done. I mean, you keep trying to say all of the situations you represent, there was actual cooperation by those former presidents to deal with the dispute.
In this case, not only is he not cooperating, he is actively not cooperating. And again, he did not comply with a subpoena. That's the end of the day. That's the instruction charge.
Why didn't he comply with the subpoena? There was a subpoena for all classified documents. He did not comply with the subpoena. He was caught not complying with the subpoena because of the search warrant, ended up turning on more classified mechanism.
How do you explain him defying a subpoena? Chuck? The Democratic narrative which you're touting right now, to try to draw a distinction. It's basically the set of facts.
I call it a democratic narrative. It's a set of facts. You're ignoring a set of facts. Let's talk about Delaware.
You've got a vice president that has documents for decades in these, in this Chinese funded Pan Biden Center. Right. You've got absolute obstruction there because we don't even have that obstruction because he had no right to have those documents. Well, I don't know.
It was hidden for so many months. Did he turn it over? Did his lawyers turn that over without any sense of chain of custody or any sort of has the flares that turn this over. We don't have the leaks coming from Rob hers investigation.
To know the details of exactly how's your defense that you know, hey, we think other people broke the laws on the last part. Of course not. Of course not. It doesn't seem to be a good pass.
The point of it is not to say that somebody else broke the law and we did too. It's okay. It's to point out that the common denominator, whether you're talking about New York, Georgia or doj, is differential treatment for President Trump than anybody in history. And to sit there and whitewash Delaware and to Wonder aloud about 1800 boxes into Delaware University that Biden went there.
I mean, we are shut out from information about a much more egregious and intentional violation of the Presidential Records act by Joe Biden and perhaps even having documents relate to Ukraine of all places. That's pretty scary stuff. Now I'm not saying anybody should be criminally prosecuted. If you're a president or vice president for having some of these documents in your possession or having people transport them to your home.
Let me ask you this. There's some reports that this, you know, some classified documents are found on a laptop. They turn over a thumb drive. Can you guarantee that no copies of these classified documents are still remaining in Mar a Lago?
Do you know this for a fact, that right now there are no more classified documents? Yeah, sure. And I can tell you the leak about what happened with this additional document or several documents that were found in the thumb drive is absurd. We actually have a federal prosecutor that was in court that completely mischaracterized that been the same mischaracterization that the media has run with to suggest that President Trump is just sitting on a mountain of documents.
It's not true at all. It was a completely innocuous situation. 4,500 pages of documents with several mixed in that didn't stand out to a low level staffer, period. When we found out that you had it, we said, did you ever make copies of this?
Did they ever go anywhere? And we chased down the chain of custody in a professional manner and immediately turned that over to the FBI and doj. They tried to run with that as obstruction. It's the exact opposite.
You know for sure whether the former president got involved with the unpacking and moving the boxes around. Yeah, I mean, can you imagine? I mean, does anybody in their right mind really think that Donald Trump came down to Mar A Lago while still president, I guess, in January and said, hey, these are the boxes I packed. Let's be careful with those.
That goes in the dining room, that goes in the closet. He told Hannity, no, he's not denying anything. He said, I would have the right to. He didn't pack the boxes.
Come on. I mean, that's like absurd to think that President Trump or he didn't say, I want to keep certain. If you look at the boxes as I make this decision, like, it's hard to believe to anybody that has covered or spent time with the former president. I know you're new to him.
It's perfectly. This is who he is. So you're going to vouch for attacking the boxes. Like the idea that he wouldn't do this.
He himself just said it. This is the third time I correct you. It's. I would have the right.
That's what he said to him. If he didn't do it, he'd say he's going to do it. No, he's making the point that it's not illegal for a president to possess documents like this. But the bottom line is, I'll make it clear to you, since you seem to be struggling with it, President Trump didn't sit there with masking tape and Sharpies and say, hey, let's sit down Indian style and start packing these boxes and send them.
All right? The four presidents call Jack Smith a lunatic, a fully weaponized monster, a political hitman. You worked with Jackson at the Justice Department for quite a few years. Is that the Jack Smith you know?
Well, here's the point. I would say two things. One is the president has every right to be frustrated by being politically targeted. I mean, we are crossing a Rubicon where prosecutors can announce, and this is the New York case, specifically in Georgia, hey, I'm run for office on the idea of taking down Donald Trump.
That is flipping the whole idea. I'm not a prosecutor for 27 years. They are supposed to be the judge. Okay, it is.
You are supposed to be judicious. You're supposed to pursue the evidence where it takes you. You're use your discretion as a prosecutor to do what's right. You stand by the comments he's made by Jackson call monster.
I'm telling you there's reason to be frustrated and there's an unethical nature of this prosecution when the attorney general holds a press conference that not even a local DA in Butte would do because they know it's against the ethics of being a prosecutor. So you stand by the president politicizing these attacks on Jackson? Look, the president is, he's a very resilient guy. He is a very opinionated guy.
I'm not going to spend my time worrying about the politics, worrying about how his poll numbers are through the roof. I mean, I don't care about this stuff. I'm here in the legal lane. And he's got a right to be frustrated.
But he's not just frustrated for himself, he's frustrated for the country. All right, James Trustee, the attorney for former president when we come back. It has been a divisible between American politics with battles over abortion, guns and race. And this doesn't even count to the downfall of legal situation.
The panel will break all down next. Welcome back panelists here, NBC News senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett. I'm the Nawaz calling for PS News album Brent and Buck, former advisor to speakers Ryan and Boehner Republican side of Alan Simone Sanders Townsend host of Simone and msnbc. Laura, this is your first time at the table and my word, we have a lot to do.
There's a lot we can lose this week, thankfully. All right, let's, I want to start with these dueling briefs here. Look, we can get into the politics, how we got to this moment, but let's go with metalpristone. Is it going to be on the market this year or not?
So as of this moment, it is. Nothing has changed. But we could be entering into a period of significant legal uncertainty if that order in Texas is actually upheld within the next week, if another judge doesn't block it, another judge doesn't block it, then it is. If the drug was never approved in the first place because he has put the effective data of it on hold, which is not exactly what the plaintiffs in this case actually ask for.
But that's what he's done. And yet at the same time, you have another federal judge with the exact same level of authority and jurisdiction who has said the exact opposite and so that's why I think folks are likely predicting it could be headed to the Supreme Court. Will it go through the appeals each the two circuits first or does this get faster? Well, it depends on what the Justice Department does.
I think you're gonna see week with a strategic call. They've already filed a notice of appeal in the fifth Circuit but we know the fifth Circuit tends to lean conservative at the same time now that they have filed that notice, they could also decide to go straight to the Supreme Court and not wait for the fifth Circuit to act as a discretionary judgement call. The Supreme Court just step in and say no, no, we'll take this. Now we see this dispute or is it they wait for the and what's the like this is a conservative majority.
Is it in line with federal judge from Memorial Taxes? Well, it's interesting because the whole rationale for when they overturned Roe was to say let's leave this to the states. Let's let the states decide what to do. This judge in Amarillo has effectively set a national policy for the entire country and has decided the FDA simply didn't have the authority to do this for the entire country.
So we throw Wisconsin with this and now we have a full fledged. It is hard for me to imagine and I say this shrek with some trepidation, but it certainly looks like 2024. I think that's right. I mean I think it's anything we saw from Wisconsin from the last year of special elections and certainly from the November midterms.
Abortion remains a politically potent issue. We saw that all the way back to Kansas last August. Michigan and Minnesota earning trifectas in the in the midterms as well. And last week as you mentioned in Wisconsin.
But I think that the context here that Laura is hitting on it is particularly important because the unprecedented nature of what we're seeing is what's mobilizing people to turn up on this issue. Right. You've never had a court, correct me if I'm wrong, weigh in and overturn an FDA approval in this way. And now we're seeing that uncertainty Laura was mentioning as well.
That's what's guiding people to come up because they don't know what their future is. Where do you live increasingly determines how you live and your rights. As a woman running the Wall Street Journal editorial board who would like to see Republicans get some power again politically warned them Republicans had better get their worship positions straight and warn line of where their voters are or they will face another disappointment in 2024. They say total banners, lose losers and swing states.
I think total banners, loser in every state. I don't think this is just about the swing states anymore. Kansas, Michigan, Wisconsin. There's a pattern.
Yeah. I don't have any more warning signs. We need that. This is a political problem for us, and yet we keep going deeper and deeper into consideration.
It is. I have a theory that it's the infrastructure of the party has relied upon the pro life community for so long for money and organizing that they don't know how to quit it. Yeah, We've made a deal with this part of the party for a very long time. We made a lot of promises, and I think a lot of people look at it in a political sense.
There are people who firmly believe that this is the right moral position to happen. So you can't just walk away from that. But take a bigger picture. Look at the politics of it are devastating for us.
We can't. We can't win without them. Obviously, winning with them is becoming cost. Simone Physical long way away.
Job Biden supportively mayor. Yes. We're a long way from that. Very long way away.
Chuck. Look, I think what Brendan said should be underscored here, because for a very long time, this is what the Republic Party uprise organized around. They did not organize around jailing women, forcing. Jailing women for getting an abortion, finding and jailing, potentially jailing doctors.
Did not organize around forcing girls to have babies by their rapist. That is exactly what's happening because of the positions they advocate for. When the Wall Street Journal says they gotta get their position straight to the voters, I'm confused and don't understand because I think they've been quite clear on the position. I think that's a problem, though, isn't it?
Yeah. We said that we were gonna send this back to the state because we're gonna have some reasonable limitations on abortion. And now state by state does look very reasonable. And we are at the mercy of state legislators, and that's not everybody around our party.
Speaking of being at the mercy of the local state legislatures, this situation in Tennessee, some other. Look, it is loud echoes from. From our recent past in the south and in the 60s. But this also feels like the inevitable moment that you have when you have these gerrymandered supermajorities that have become calcified.
Absolutely. This is what it felt like. A whole bunch of people who just don't deal with dissent. Absolutely.
I mean, look, I was down in Nashville, I spoke to Tennessee and saying, legislators, legislators there. What is happening in Tennessee and frankly across the south is in fact Jim Crow. What Jim Crow was, was blocking black people from the ability to have participation in their government, disenfranchising lawmakers. And it's again, it's not just gonna see, look what's happening in Pacific coming in to Jackson and state legislature stepping in.
Look at what Governor Abbott in Texas, look at what's happening in Florida. This is an all out assault. Governor Abbott, the story you're glossing, I know we wanted to be quick. I appreciate you doing the time that he said looks like he's okay.
If there's a pardon of a Travis County, a blue county prosecution, a murder conviction of a Black Lives Matter, people had a statement and said I welcome the pardon on my desk so I can sign it. And so it is an assault. And I think these young people, young state legislators who stood up, they have galvanized them. Brendan Not a single national Republican leader has supported what Tennessee is.
It is no doubt in my mind the silence is at least sending a message. Oh my God, that looks terrible. But I don't think it's helping the party's image. No.
I mean, what do they do? This happened in Congress in 2016. We had a sit in where Democrats took over the House floor and man members wanted us to arrest them, want us to arrest John Lewis on the House floor. But you realize that's a bad look.
Here's another situation where you have a state legislature who's defining the party. No one is in charge. There's no consequences for any of these legislatures. As you said, their districts are such they're not going to be voted out.
Half of them didn't face any point. Yeah. Brendan. Half of them didn't face any opponent at all.
It's stunning. Yeah. Well, this is again the situation where there's no infrastructure, there's nobody calling the shots. We're being defined as extreme and it's why Republicans are on the run in just about everywhere across the country.
When we come back, despite the widening parts of divide, there is one area this week where you saw lawmakers reunify and intentionally so define China's display of military force in Taiwan. Like exclusive interview House War Affairs Chairman Michael from Taiwan. Thanks. Welcome back.
To cite the domestic political divisions on full display this week, the effort that the United States made this week to show a united front on Taiwan was extraordinary when you think about it. As lawmakers at home abroad met with Taiwan's president, promised a US Commitment to the island's security, it was bipartisan in Response China launched three days of military exercises in the Taiwan Straits, deploying at least 71 fighter jets into Taiwan's airspace and surrounding the island with warships, all in an attempt to simulate a naval blockade. On Saturday, I spoke exclusively to how warfare chairman calls at the end of his congressional publications visit to the end of Taiwan and began by asking him about whether the drills represented an escalation. We have a large number of sorties.
Those are Chinese aircraft fighter jets in the air right now as I speak from the island. And this is in response to President Tsai's trip to the United States, but also our delegation's visit to Taiwan and with President Tsai. This is an intimidation tactic that they're known for. The size of this one is quite large, one of the largest ones we've seen.
And but it's not going to, it's not going to intimidate us and we have every right to be here to meet with President Tsai and it actually strengthens our result. The Taiwanese themselves seem to be downplaying this look. You've got a firsthand look. How would you assess their defensive capabilities right now?
They're not where they need to be. If we're going to have deterrence for peace, we need to get these weapons into Taiwan. I sign off on all four military weapon sales, 22 weapon systems over three years ago, check that have yet to get into Taiwan onto the island. That will provide deterrence to chair and Chi to think twice about an invasion.
And secondly is the combat training that is occurring on the island. We need to ramp it up to a larger scale so they can provide that projection of strength and deterrence. They're not where they need to be right now. You have a sense of what the Taiwanese people want.
And I say that in that we know pre sort of what China did before it took over Hong Kong. There was always a sense that a lot of people in Taiwan wanted some sort of relationship with mainland China that was negotiated, that was sort of respectful. Is that what they still want or do they think some sort of military confrontation is now going to be inevitable? Well, they don't want a military confrontation.
We certainly don't want that. I think after Hong Kong it was a wake up call for the people of Taiwan. President Tsai, we spoke with her today that obviously helped her in a re election. But I also think Putin's invasion into Ukraine was an eye opener.
Right. It woke up the Taiwanese people that now you're seeing what we have seen since World War II and that is dictators invading sovereign territory and getting away with it. So Putin and Ukraine wake up call here. Chairman Xi and his addresses to his Congress about wanting reunification of Taiwan to China.
I think they're very nervous now. There's a political debate here, the two different parties, one party wants to talk to China. President Tsai's party does not want to be a part of China. And I think the next elections next January are going to be extremely important because I do believe with the former President Mao in China right now, China's going to try to influence this next election and take over the island without a shot fired.
I want to play something that Speaker McCarthy said because it seemed to at least shift a perception of where he is on the issue of Ukraine. I think what's happening in Ukraine is atrocity. And I think Ukraine, not just Ukraine, the world has to win there. What Russia has done is wrong in a phrase.
I use a blank check. I use that for anything. I look at every dollar of taxpayers that we would use. But the one thing I know that in Ukraine we have to win because it also would save Taiwan at the same time.
Are you reassured now and should the Ukrainians, should President Zelensky be reassured? The House Republicans are not going to stand in the way of more ad Ukraine. You know, I traveled with Kevin, Speaker McCarthy to Poland, Romania. He's always believed this felt this way.
When you're over here, check when you talk to I've talked to the prime ministers and the presidents of Japan, South Korea, Taiwan. What's happening in Ukraine will determine what happens in Taiwan in the Pacific. I think the prime minister of Japan going down to Ukraine to signal their support. And he said himself what happens in Ukraine today will happen in the Far east tomorrow.
I believe the best deterrence to Chairman Xi is a failure for Putin in Ukraine, as you might suspect. I have a fuller interview with the chairman with Michael Kaun. You can see the entire thing@the press.com when we come back. Wisconsin is not the only state where abortion was a losing issue for Republicans.
I'm gonna break down the lessons that a string of setbacks in some key states have for GOP ahead of 2024. Welcome back to downtown on time. By electing Janet Percaich to state supreme Court this week with none of voters handed liberals their first majority on the court in 15 years. And it gives them the power to decide the fate of many pivotal issues in the state of most central force to the campaign was abortion rights.
So how did this issue deliver the rare double digit victory for the left in A perpetual battleground state in the most polarized state of the union of Wisconsin. Let me show you because it's not a story that just stays in Wisconsin. Look at the 2020 presidential map there. Biden carried 14 counties.
Here's the Supreme Court map, Protestant, which carried 23 counties. And look where it is. Any urban area essentially became an abortion rights supporter here. Kenosha should carry.
This is where lacrosse is. This is where Green Bay is. These are areas where Biden couldn't carry. The old days.
Democrats used to carry those areas, but not anymore. But they did for this issue. Let me show you Kansas. We had five counties Biden carrying in Kansas.
The abortion referendum in August 22nd showed you other urban and suburban areas also supported abortion rights. Wichita, Topeka, Kansas City, suburbs. You can see Michigan had an abortion referendum along with the governor's race. Again, here's the map of Joe Biden.
And look at the map of the abortion referendum. Basically in each case, wherever there's a college town, wherever there's even a small size city, the abortion rights side seemed to do well. We see it in Michigan, we see in Wisconsin, we saw it in Kansas. Then there's the issue of turnout.
This is the Wisconsin Supreme Court election, 2019. They had one of these in the spring. 1.2 million votes, 2023, 1.8 million voters. The biggest difference, Dane county and the University of Wisconsin and Madison.
Young voters turned out in droves. That made the difference. When we come back, it was overshadowed by the spectacle of Donald Trump's surrender at New York City Courthouse. But President Biden may have shifted his re election timeline again.
How much longer does he play to wait before formally getting in? Man was back after the break. Welcome back. There's been a lot of political news this week.
I do want to get a little more politics out of the way here, Simone. President Biden's reaction was just not great. There are more Democrats who would like to see somebody else than Joe Biden. I know we just spent a lot of the show.
He's two different polls out this week again. And every week that goes by that he doesn't announce his reelection and you know, the whispers begin. What's going on? What are you hearing?
Is he going to announce sooner or is he just enjoying the amount of time he seems to have to do this? I'm hearing that they are, that there are contours of a re election campaign being put together. But it will be President Biden who will make his announcement. Obviously, I think he has a trip to Ireland coming up.
So anyone looking to see the announcement in the next two weeks? How you gonna announce presidential campaign and then have an international trip? Doesn't work like that. So my guess is something early.
Early May perhaps. I was being told legal problems that I'll make in the thing. Wait, let's wait. On being a political candidate, I don't think that the, I don't think that the Biden folks are concerned about or making decisions based on what Donald Trump is experiencing.
But I think the reality is that this week demonstrates that the President and Vice President actually are in a very strong position. It was Joe Biden, Kamala Harris who were down speaking with the state legislatures in Tennessee and they told me that that supports folk values. I want to do another story that broke this week. Propola had an extensive story about a long time relationship he's had with a billionaire donor, conservative donor to a lot of causes and kind.
Thomas took yachts, fighting planes, all sorts of trips. I think one of the more egregious elements of the story was funding an organization that Jenny Thomas ended up getting a six figure salary for. Here's Justice Thomas's response. Early My tenure at the Court, I was advised of this sort of personal hospitality for close personal friends who did not have business before the Court was not reportable.
Now how serious is this and is this going to put a spotlight on the Supreme Court that Justices are gonna feel uncomfortable about? I think it's definitely gonna increase the heat of the spotlight on the Supreme Court that's already been there. And to be clear, there had been some reporting around this for years. LA Times was reporting on this back in the early 2000s, certainly not to this extent and not to the degree that ProPublica dug into it.
Yeah, if you're the average American reading about this, this is going to feed into the perception that there are biases and there are problems within the Supreme Court institution that has been slowly losing trust in the American public has had all institutions of power in America more recently. I think the bigger question is what are the rules? What is the law? What is the policy around these rules For Supreme Court Justices?
The answer right now seems to be they don't really. Chief Justice John Roberts is the head of the judiciary branch, not just the chief Justice, Supreme Court. He's been very, he pushes back whenever Congress attempts to put some constraints on the judiciary here. But he also is well aware that he's on the Court's reputation.
Well, the fact of the matter is that unlike other federal judges, the Supreme Court justices are not subject to the same rules. There is no ethics code, despite protestations from Democratic members of Congress regularly trying to make sure that they get one. They don't have the votes in Congress to get that done right now. And so essentially, Robertson said, look, we look at the ethics code as guidance, but in reality they're policing themselves.
They're supposed to disclose gifts. But this whole issue of personal hospitality, which is what Clarence Ham is alluding to, it was a major loophole until last month. Brendan, the fact of the matter is Congress is most strict requirements than any of the judges. When I work on Hill, you could accept a coffee mug, maybe a T shirt.
There really are no rules. And I think there was a lot of interest recently in legislating congressional ethics. I could very easily see that Folk is shipping over into the Supreme Court. There has to be some level of accountability here and clearly doesn't exist.
All right. What a week. And it was supposed to be holiday week. That's all we have for today.
Enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, Disney. Hey, it's Kate Snow, NBC News anchor and host of the Drink. This month, Demi Lovato is my guest.
The global superstar tells me that she is the happiest she's ever been right now. But getting there, it wasn't simple. Demi opens up about starting in Hollywood young and why she now thinks she may have started too soon. She talks about recovery, her new marriage, and the deeply personal reason behind her new cookbook.
The Drink is always about the journey to the top, and this was an honest conversation about what that takes. Hope you listen and follow the Drink wherever you get your podcast.