All right, here we go. Quiet! Roll up! Happy Holidays, everyone, from The Big Picture Podcast, where we take a look at the latest movie news, the films of today and yesterday, and we put them all into some sort of context.
Seated across the microphone from me is our Santa Claus, giving every bit of news on the airwaves. It's Rich Treves! And seated across the microphone from me is our contributing elf, Natasha Boguski. How you doing?
Have you recovered from your holiday party this past weekend? No. Okay. I'm still knackered from it.
I'm exhausted. I know, you took the day off today. And yesterday as well, and as we are sitting here on a brisk, cool December Monday evening. And yeah, it was a great time.
That was a wonderful party. Thank you. Yes, and a lot of fun things happening. You just came from the movies.
You were very excited about something I've been telling you to go see. Wonka? Yeah. No, no, no.
Wonka still opens in a couple of days. It's already out. Oh, that's right. I'm sorry.
I've lost track of so many release dates right now because I just spent like the last three weeks not only cramming for what's gonna be our main review discussion, Netflix's The Crown, but I also had the Philadelphia Film Critics Circle voting for Best of the Year, which we just, you know, we did our nominations and then we did our final voting. And we announced them just yesterday, this past Sunday. So what you're saying is, most of January, you're in a coma. I'm hoping.
Yes. Yeah, because I'm pretty much caught up. There's like one or two things that I knew weren't going to be vital to see for voting. Looking at you, Aquaman.
Sorry. That I'll go out and catch. No, I'm right there with you. And I'll probably go out and see a few things again on a big screen versus seeing them, you know, at home on my, you know, admittedly 40-inch TV.
But, you know, going to see something like Poor Things or going, I definitely want to try to get to see Godzilla again. I want to see Poor Things on the big screen so bad. I think the surrealistic aspect of what we've been seeing in the trailers is gonna look visually stunning on a big screen. Well, Poor Things was the Philadelphia Film Critics Circle's choice for best film of 2023.
I told people, keep your eye on this one. And Yorgos Lanthimos got our best director award. Emma Stone. Best actress.
Best actress. And I believe it was Best Script, also. So, it took home four awards. Oppenheimer took home four or five, including Best Actor for Cillian Murphy, runner-up for director Chris Nolan, and a few other things, Best Cinematography as well.
And, surprisingly, we had an overlap with one movie in two categories that kind of surprised me, but I was very happy about. The Boy and the Heron? The Boy and the Heron took Best Animated Film and Best Foreign Language Film. It's Hayao Miyazaki's latest film.
It is a masterpiece because it's a Miyazaki film. The guy has not produced a dud yet. Yes, he... Yeah, he did.
What? The one that we saw down near Philly. Was it Mary and the Witch's Broom or something? No, that was...
I think that was Studio Ghibli, but he didn't direct that. That was somebody else at Studio Ghibli. Okay. Oh, God, I forgot about that movie.
Right there is your proof. Fair enough. But, yeah, I mean, he keeps saying, this is going to be my last film. He said that about The Wind Rises, which came out before this.
I made a joke with love in my heart that Miyazaki, you know, has more last films than the Rolling Stone had farewell tours. So... So he's... Yeah, he's going to keep making movies until probably he drops over on top of his drafting board.
And that will make me very sad. I will probably cry my eyes out. But I will be very happy about all of the wonderful stuff he gave us. Yeah, I mean, I feel that he looks at filmmaking as a duty, a duty to other people to deliver these wonderful stories.
And kind of in the way that our main topic, The Queen, sees her lifelong... Interesting way to look there. I wasn't looping, but... We're not quite segwaying yet.
Not yet, but that was a good one. I liked it. Yeah, very much so. Light news week.
We're going into the holidays. A lot of productions have shut down, like, this past week as they go off on their mandated breaks, you know, so soon after they started back up, which is kind of weird. But, you know, at least they got a couple of weeks of shooting, hopefully, after all the strikes ended. I saw that the final season of Stranger Things is getting ready to start production in January.
There was actually a list of character names that was released the other day. And I was very interested to see that one was blacked out. It's always fun when they do that, isn't it? Well, the name that wasn't on the list was Max, the redheaded girl played by the awesome, and I say this wholeheartedly, awesome Sadie Sink in the show.
So everyone is probably guessing that's what it is. And I'm over here going, yeah, no, that doesn't seem right. They probably just didn't put her name on the list in order to make it look like that's the one that's blacked out. That sounds like a plot within a plot.
Well, her character is kind of in a coma right now and on the brink of death to begin with. So I wouldn't be surprised if she, maybe attached to something else, was not able to make it back and they decided, okay, well, we can wrap up the storyline. We need you for one day. Guaranteed not much dialogue to learn either.
Yes. But another Netflix show that is actually in the news today is Wednesday, which started up its production and just kind of shut down again. There's news coming out that Netflix is developing a spinoff show featuring Fred Armisen as Uncle Fester. I'm down for that.
100%. Oh, me too. I absolutely seal of approval right now. Give it to me.
I want it. It's Fred Armisen. And he was fantastic as Fester. He was only in one episode for like probably a third of the episode.
Like 15, 20 minutes and he stole it. Yeah. Which is why I'm like, give me, give me, give me, give me. Give me straight into the vein.
Which, honestly, it makes complete sense that the second season of Wednesday is starting up as production on Beetlejuice 2 under Tim Burton. It's winding down. No, it. Yeah.
Production ended a couple of weeks ago. So now that's in post and now you can turn, he can turn his attentions and grab Jenna and say, okay, so yeah, you finished Beetlejuice. Now here we go. Let's go.
Wednesday again. Exactly. Oh, my poor girl. Working herself silly, but.
Well, she's out of screen, so she's got a little more time on her hands. Unfortunate. You're true, yes. Yeah.
Honestly, I don't think, it doesn't need another film. I thoroughly enjoyed the last two Scream films with her and Melissa Barrera. I am sorry to see that because of politics and schedules and such, both of those lovely actresses will not be returning to the next Scream film, which probably means that it's either going to be postponed for a very long time or they're just going to say, oh, this is the, we're done with this iteration. We'll put it on hold for another few years and then reboot it again some way, shape, or form.
Almost likely. Yeah. And that's probably for the best. I mean, they were trying to make a trilogy of films focusing on those two characters, you know, the sisters.
And you can't do it without the sisters. Yeah. It doesn't make sense to suddenly kind of pivot at this point. I think they do kind of have a good ending where it ends.
And You caught Scream? Yes. Yeah. I finally did.
Oh, why didn't you tell me? I've seen a lot of stuff recently and I, you know, I can't, I apologize for not talking to you about that so much. Okay. I wasn't going to talk to you about that.
I didn't even know that you'd seen it. Yeah. It was good. 20, 30 movies ago.
So it's a little lazy and a 50 hour TV series that I just binged over the last two weeks. Honest. I give you a lot of credit on that because, honest, it didn't seem you were going to make it. You did not.
You did not expect me to get all of my film critic circle screening done as well as watching all of five seasons of The Crown. You couldn't get through Mrs. Maisel in time. And Mrs.
Maisel was actually, I think, shorter. It may have been, but yeah. But I learned from that lesson and I was, it was just, you know, plowing. I finished work at five o'clock.
And since if I was working at home, my computer desk is a three foot walk to the couch and I would pop on the couch by 5 15 and I would watch like a half a season's worth of The Crown and then go, oh, it's midnight. I'm going to bed. So, well, actually, before we even get into that, it feels like we keep naturally segueing into it No idea if they're going to continue it or not. This episode, episode eight, was the last that they had produced and shot and had all ready to go before the strike actions happened this summer.
They had actually started production on season two back on Valentine's Day. Because NBC gave them an early pickup and had them start work already. So they had something for the fall because we probably knew things were going to go sideways. So I've been enjoying that.
And I've also been enjoying Monarch Legacy of Monsters on Apple Plus. And we're back to Godzilla. Back to Godzilla, yeah. Kurt Russell and Wyatt Russell playing the same character in two different time periods, and they're really good.
Well, I would hope so. They're father and son, so you know the visual, the facial look is going to be similar. Well, the visual, but you know, you grow up with the person, you know how to emulate their tics and quirks really easily. Well, I mean, they're acting a different character.
They're not playing Kurt Russell at two different times in his life. Well, of course, but I mean, you can still look at someone and say, so what are you going to carry? Well, I was thinking of doing this. Oh, I've seen you do that before.
Okay, piece of cake. Also on Apple Plus, For All Mankind, season four, they've got the Mars colony. There's some politics going on, asteroid capture, which could bring mineral wealth to the world in the terms of trillions of dollars. And it's just fun alternate history and speculative science fiction, which always has a core grain of hope in the middle of it that says, you know, we can get our shit together.
We can establish a colony on the moon. We can establish a colony on Mars. We can do these things. And really, in the timeline of the show, they're only in 2004.
So they're like 19 years behind us, and they've got a Mars colony. And at best we had Appy on Mars, you know, the Mars rover Opportunity. And it kind of bums me out when I think about it. I mean, I watched the show and I'm like, this is so good.
It's so well written. It's so smart. It's, you know, Ronald D. Moore is the executive producer, who also did Outlander.
Oh, we're not talking Outlander right now because I'll start crying. Oh, OK. Never mind. Also Battlestar Galactica.
No, we can talk about Battlestar Galactica. Two really well-written shows. And for him to be overseeing this as well, you know, you know it's quality. Oh, yeah, absolutely.
And it just kind of bums me out that I'm like, this is really good, but dammit, we could be doing this in real life. You know, it would have been possible if, you know, different choices were made. And we could still make better choices towards that. Well, speaking of time travel and Outlander.
Outlander, yes. I just saw the other day that the final season is getting ready to go into production as Sam Heughan posted a photo. Was it a photo or a video? I think it might have been a little video on Instagram where he was taking us to the costume closet as they prep.
And it's lined wall to wall with uniforms. Oh, I imagine so. So we're both, we're heading towards the revolutionary war now. Oh, cool.
Before it's all season. I am mean. You know me. I'm very behind on that show.
I actually did get caught up. Again, you know, I don't respond well to sexual violence. Which one was it? That season ender.
Oh, with Claire. Yeah. And I just I'm like, I know I can go back to this and it's they'll probably have to reference it. But I and I'm just kind of like, that's it.
That's rough for a lot of people. I thought it was I thought it was handled very well by the idea of going inside of her head as she was disassociating from everything. And she was creating this alternate world. And to be honest, I mean, this is the discussion we had when we reviewed that one season of Highlander several years back.
Highlander? Outlander, sorry. Sorry, wrong Scottish. Yes, we've done that before.
Wrong Scotsman. Whoops. Well, there can only be one. One Outlander and, of course, one Highlander because there were no Highlander sequels.
There were no Highlander spinoffs. It was only that one movie because that's all you need. And everything else would have been superfluous and dumb. I like that one.
Thank you. But no, we're heading into that. So that's something I'm gonna have to mentally prepare for next year as an ending. Yeah, you know how that'll be on that.
Speaking of time travel, speaking of Outlander, speaking of a character named Jamie, and a show that will never end, we had the 60th anniversary of Doctor Who too, you know, over this past couple of weeks where we watched three wonderful specials of that with David Tennant, excuse me. And you're looking at me like, what, Jamie? Remember, Jamie on Outlander is named after the second Doctor's companion, Jamie. Oh yeah, yeah, Fraser.
Yes, that's right. Forgot about that. That's it. I have to cut a corner off your nerd membership card.
Well, I could still walk through fire on some things that you wouldn't touch. That's true. That is true. Okay, then.
But yeah, no, you're right. And oh my God, what a few couple of episodes that we got for the 60th. I've always said the biggest tragedy in the new Who era has been what happens to Donna Noble. She starts off brash and abrasive and just kind of not a great person.
And that's because she doesn't have confidence in herself. And through her travels with the Doctor, she learns things. She learns compassion. She gets confidence in herself.
She opens herself up to the world that she's kind of closed off from. And she becomes just an amazing person. And that's even before we get into the whole Doctor Donna thing in the final episode of that season. But that's what triggers the Doctor having to basically wipe her mind, which, you know, you are the sum of your experiences.
So if he makes her forget all of that, then that kind of undoes that kind of undoes, excuse me, all of that growth she had. And you kind of see that at the end. And it's heartbreaking of that episode. Yeah, it was absolutely heartbreaking.
And I was like, oh, my God. So it was nice to get redemption. Yeah, it was nice to give her a happier ending. But I do like that they imply that through through that time before she meets up with the doctor again, that she was trying to do good.
She won all that money in the lottery ticket that he gave her for her wedding gift. Millions of pounds. She gave it off the charity. Everything except enough to buy a house.
Yes. And so subconsciously, things are still rattling around in there. Yeah. And I liked that idea.
And, you know, so for that, that made me very happy. And that was just in the first episode. Then we had Wild Blue Yonder, which everybody was expecting to be all sorts of crazy. And it was, but kind of in a different way.
Yeah. They were expecting lots of guest stars and stuff like that, I think. And we didn't get that. We kind of got a multiple doctor story in that in that in the way you would never expect.
And if you want to be technical, every single episode of the 60th was a multiple doctor story because you had Doctor Donna. Yeah. You had Doctor versus alien doctor, different type of alien doctor. And then you had Doctor Doctor.
Yes. At the end of the third episode there. The giggle. The giggle.
But just one thing about Wild Blue Yonder. Outside of like maybe like the Cybermen. I'm really having a tough time thinking when Doctor Who kind of dipped into some body horror the way they did in that episode. That was kind of creepy.
Was it creepy? Slightly comical at times, but weird as hell. And I really liked it. There was a lot of things going on in that thing.
Well, you got to appreciate the mavity of the situation. Yes. I want to keep up with mavity, by the way. I like the idea that not many people know what the hell we're talking about.
It's always going to be an inside joke. Kind of just like your arms are too long. Yes. And then, of course, the big finale of the three part with Neil Patrick Harris, who is always just wonderful.
Even scene stealer. Yes. He was a perfect person to step in for Michael Goff as the toy maker. He played the toy maker a different way.
Deliciously devilishly evil. I don't know about evil. I would say entirely amoral, except for the fact he will play the game. He abides by a set of rules.
Yeah, he does have a code. But within that code, man, he can be chaotic in a way that I haven't seen since John Simm played the master. Yeah, he had that vibe, but a little more fun. And he also got, you know, a musical number.
Which has been living rent free in my head since that night. Every now and then I got to play the song just to get it out. But yeah, so Donna's growth back is amazing. There's a there's a wonderful moment where she's approached by the Unified Intelligence Task Force about joining them.
And Donna says to the leader, Kate Lethbridge-Stewart, what's it entail Yeah, I'm talking Captain Beefcake over here. Oh boy. No, I mean, Torchwood was under his command. Yeah.
I would love to know what Gwen and Owen are up to with their daughter, who's probably... Yeah, Rose Noble's age. Close to Rose Noble's age, yeah. Good Lord, can you see them together?
Well, yeah. Okay, our parents are off to save the universe. What do you want to do? Xbox?
Oh, let's party down the road. Actually, I was very interested in the fact that Rose Noble is a trans character. And obviously that upset idiots who felt that a trans character in a TV show about an alien who frequently changes their face and sometimes their sex would be a trans character in that show. That is, honestly, that's really funny to me because if you want to talk about the biggest advocate for trans rights, it's definitely The Doctor.
He doesn't really see gender. He himself changes. I love in the wonderful Children in Need special that we got prior to the 60th anniversary, the first thing that David Tennant says when he opens up the door is, oh, hello. Sorry, about 20 minutes ago, I was this really brilliant woman.
Still calibrating. What's interesting is, um, Rosa's grandmother is having, still having a little trouble with remembering the right terminology. You know, remembering to use the right pronouns and stuff, but she cares and she's asking and she checks in with Donna. She's like, am I doing this right?
Because I want to be doing this right. And I think that's very important. It's very empowering. And I have a question.
When we saw some regeneration energy flying around at the end and it was shared between Rose and Donna. Mm-hmm. Do you think it made her... It fully transitioned her into a woman?
Possibly. Okay. I had that thought at one point afterwards. I was like, oh, hmm, I like that idea.
I don't know if they'll ever touch on it or not. I kind of don't care if they don't touch on it or not, but there was one particular line where I think she said, I am finally me. And I think that was their way of maybe nodding to it. Okay, I would have to go back and watch that again then, I guess.
Yeah, there was one line. I can't remember verbatim what was said, but it was something along the lines of, it was either, I'm finally me or I am the most me I have ever felt or something like that. It was along those lines. Well, that's good then.
But I really like that because originally, Doctor Who didn't start off as like an alien who was going around battling monsters. It was supposed to be in a historical information show created by Verity Lambert and the BBC. And then it kind of evolved from there. So the idea that they're still trying to teach lessons along the way while still delivering a damn good entertaining story.
I would say Doctor Who over the years, basically because of the idea of equality, the Doctor's mutability and things like that, that this show has gathered a, I don't want to say it's like over 50% or predominantly, I don't want to put a percentage on it, but there is a very visible gay slash queer audience for this show. Not surprised. And when you look at the history of fandom, there are a lot of, you know, people in, you know, high profile fans who, you know, are gay and are out about it. And yeah, like you said, I'm not surprised about it at all.
Once I started to realize it, yeah. Once I started to realize it, I was like, oh yeah, that makes sense to me. One of my favorite moments on Doctor Who, um, interesting timing of when the episode was released, because obviously these things are shot months and months and months in advance. Um, but the Doctor's War speech done by Peter Capaldi, which is for me one of the greatest speeches ever on Doctor Who.
It's about 10 minutes long. He's trying to stop, uh, two sides from absolutely annihilating each other. And he says, you think you know what war is? You know, when are you going to just learn that you have to just sit down and talk?
You're all the same. No matter how right you feel when you fire that first shot, you have no idea who's going to die. It is a fantastic just piece of art. And, um, interestingly enough, coincided on its release date with the Paris bombings.
Yes. So it was all of a sudden this tragedy was echoing around the world. And interestingly enough, there was, it felt like there was a live response in order to help people to cope with what was going on. And we often find TV shows that try to be more than just flat out entertainment, that try to sometimes have messages, uh, and thematic weight to them.
We turn to them at times because they do help us. Yeah, because we're like, oh, they're telling us we get better. Original Star Trek is like that. Um, and especially like during the Vietnam War and the race riots of the late sixties and the civil rights movement and everything else, you know, to just turn on a show and see a multinational crew, uh, you know, all officers, you know, technically remember Ohura was the fourth in command.
Mm-hmm. You know, that meant a lot to a lot of people. You see this again, you know, all the time in Doctor Who with fans who turned to that show and go, there is a message that kindness and intelligence and emotional intelligence will always prevail. And that can be very comforting.
The doctor, whilst not being afraid to stand up and fight, he's always fighting for the belief in humanity and in hope and that we as a species will evolve and will always want to be better than where we came from. And that is the message that we should always take forward. Oh yes. To be dutiful in that.
And speaking of duty. Ah, okay. Eventually at last, because literally in the last 5-6 minutes there was like 3 times I thought, okay, she's ramping up to go to the crown now, but this is for real. This is the for real we're going to the crown now.
But we are also talking about characters who are willing to stand up for their beliefs, whether that be the belief in humanity or the belief in perseverance of tradition. Yes. And that gets us to The Crown. Yes.
The wonderful Netflix TV show that has lasted for the past 6 years surrounding the royal family from 1952, I believe it was. The British royal family. Yes, the British royal family from 1952, I believe, until almost 2004. 2004, 2005, something like that.
Yeah, and it's an amazing show. And there are a lot of things I like about it. There are some things, and I've been kind of mentioning these as I've been going along through it, that I had troubles with. You had trouble with writing.
I don't say troubles as in the IRA and what happened in Ireland. You mean what happened to Dickie? Yeah. Lord Mountbatten.
Okay, well, first of all... That was a rough scene to see, I think. I liked how they did it. And I thought it was really well done.
Well, first off, a couple of observations. Yes. Avalanches are a big thing on this show. Two avalanches?
If it weren't based on actual events that happened both times... You'd be like, oh, come on. I'd be like, that's just lazy. That's just where you're recycling ideas.
You're out of ideas or whatever. But then you Google. But yeah. And as somebody who...
You were fact-checking everything, weren't you? Not fact-checking, but Googling certain things. Because as I got older, I've gotten a little bit more of an interest in history because I've started to, you know, understand the arc of history, which I don't think you really get to understand until you're like in your mid-30s at least. Ouch.
No, it's just the fact that you don't get to see how things change until you're like, oh, yeah, cable was 13 channels, and now there's the internet and streaming. You know, once you really see, like, kind of an arc of progress over 25, you know, a quarter of a century, basically, because you're not paying attention to shit until you're at least 10 years older, so really. Okay, you may be the outlier on that. You're looking at me like, what do you mean?
Well, I was actually, as you were mentioning all of that, my first instinct was I went to the history of the phone. And I remember using, like, landline phones at home, like rotary. And then I went to press button. And then years later, I was cordless.
Then I had my first flip phone. Actually, I got my first flip phone when I was 14, which was a little late. Everyone by then already had the first iPhone. Which I didn't join the smartphone community until I was about 18.
Here I am 28. Yes, I've joined the 21st century, ladies and gentlemen. But interestingly enough, maybe because retro is back in, Y2K is everywhere, I'm starting to see certain things popping up, like the Motorola Razr is back and everyone wants one. It was like, no, no one liked that thing back then.
It just looked iconic. That's all. Well, it was a pain in the ass. To be fair, I've seen apps that display on your smartphone screen a rotary dial, and that's how you dial.
Yes, I've seen those apps. But what I'm trying to say is I biopics anyways. So you have to remember to go into this with that mindset because, for example, the one thing that I remember standing out to me when Margaret Thatcher's son was lost in the road rally race in Africa, that did not coincide with the Falklands War. No, but this show kind of made the argument that she was distracted by that and the Falklands were starting to get a little out of hand and that's why they had to send the army in.
And I was like, that's not quite right and I don't think that's fair to Margaret Thatcher. And this might be the only time I'm saying that's not fair to Margaret Thatcher because she was a terrible, terrible person. And you could see that with a lot of her very dismissive views about anybody who wasn't upper class and white. There was one or two moments where she's talking to the queen and I thought the queen was gonna be like, you racist bitch, because she was awful.
And that's pretty much... I mean, she called the iron lady for a reason. But I think what the show tries to do in that episode, drama or not, is slightly humanize someone who is a terrible person historically. Because if you cannot feel anything for this character at all, but they're playing a large part of your show because they have to, then you're gonna have people going, I love Gillian Anderson.
I think she's a fantastic actress. She did a great job in that role in making me hate Margaret Thatcher. Well, okay, I already hated Margaret Thatcher. But it makes me hate her.
And you're coming in in a biased standpoint to begin with. And then she gives you even more of that. So if that is the case, no matter how good the actress is, it's like watching Umbridge. You just want to skip past every scene that she is in on screen.
That's not good television. That's not a good movie. No, but she made it engaging, though. Exactly, by also trying to bring those moments of inner conflict of the idea of, I am a woman in the most powerful position in England whilst also still trying to be a wife and mother.
It makes for great television. It makes for great television. Sometimes, though, when they're using historical events as a catalyst to reveal things about the historical personages they're examining, they kind of don't give us a resolution to the actual historical incidents. Like in the last season with the fire at Windsor Castle, there's a fire.
The queen feels sad because some things are lost. And they don't mention Windsor Castle again. No one even has a passing line of, like, oh, I hear the restoration of Windsor is going along great. Yeah, thanks for asking.
You know, nothing like that. And so it stands out in a way that we're not accustomed to in this era of, I don't want to say serialized or continuity heavy storytelling. You would get, you know, little follow-ups like that an episode or two down the line in something else. I kind of like that, though.
And the reason why is not only you're having such a great passage of time between these episodes, sometimes you're going an entire... You do get some very awkward exposition lines, usually at the beginning of the season. Like, oh, yes, that's right. He was away for 10 years and he just got back.
Oh, thank you. Like a person having to tell the other person what the audience needs to know. And sometimes it's not handled as adroitly as it could be. A season encapsulates almost a full decade.
Yes. So you don't always have time to kind of fill in those gaps when you're jumping maybe three years or a year in each episode or something like that. But I also kind of like that because we see a changing world. We see how it's affecting the queen, but she still has to be above it all.
So even if she is sad in the beginning with, oh, Windsor Castle, this happened at Windsor Castle, it affects her and then she immediately has to switch off and go, what's next? Yeah, which is not emotionally healthy. It's not. I mean, we've seen how emotional stuff that the entire family is in a way.
And this is a thought I was having while watching it. I was like, is this show somewhat, maybe even passively aggressively, arguing against the idea of monarchy? Because it basically is wrecking this family and in so many ways and damaging these people. And, you know, people die because of choices and things that happen within that family because of they have certain duties.
They have certain responsibilities. They have certain expectations that, frankly, might be a little too high in terms of expectations for people to be able to fully fulfill. Well, I think there also has an argument to be made of the generational gaps and the idea of how they connect to the world differently. Yeah, because you can obviously see that Margaret and the queen and the Duke of Edinburgh and a lot of that old, old guard are raised with the idea that duty comes first.
Your duty to your country, your duty to each other, your duty to the institution. Whereas everyone else, as they are growing up, their duty is their family, their love, their emotions and the people. So they start to connect closer to the people while the older guard kind of keep their distance because they don't see themselves as people. They see themselves as figureheads of a greater being.
And I think that that's kind of sad in a way, though, because you have a duty to yourself to ensure your own health and happiness. And that oftentimes seemed to be very much at odds and in conflict with duty to crown and country and what's expected of them. And I think that's an interesting dynamic. And there are times when there are times when we see Elizabeth kind of happy or she makes a concession towards something or she seems to be, well, she's kind of fine with Diana now.
And then suddenly the next episode, she's like, ugh, Diana. And, you know, so it feels like she kind of waffled back and forth. You know, I'm not saying that it's inconsistent. Diana was seen as approachable by the people.
And I think that hurt the queen's image. Well, yeah. And it hurt Charles's image and it hurt everyone else because they appear so cold in comparison. Oh, absolutely.
Yes. She, in comparison, made them look terrible. That's not her fault, though. No, absolutely not.
But that is also a generational thing. That's a personality thing as well. Diana was at odds because it seems, from the aspect of how it's portrayed on the show, that she thought the best way that she could serve the crown and serve the family, serve the people, is by being closer to the people, to actually, I'm not afraid to walk into the crowd. And I think that also helps that she kind of, you know, she was babysitting and everything when Charles, she was working little odd jobs and such.
Like, whilst raised in a wealthy family, she also lived a normal life outside of it before marrying Charles. Yeah. And none of those kids can grow up with a normal upbringing because, you know, just by nature, they're in that spotlight. So they're running the risk of being damaged, you know, right from the start.
As we see with Harry later on in the final season. Yeah. Or you see when any of them go to school, college, they're, you know, constantly picked on and, you know, smacked in the back of the head and all sorts of stuff. And, you know, for both Charles and William and Harry, you know, had to put up with that kind of abuse just by nature of who they are.
So there's no way for them to kind of have any kind of anonymity to get to experience the things we see Kate and Diana grow up with. Would have been interesting to see Sarah Ferguson in that mix as well. Just didn't have time to squeeze that into the series, unfortunately. I would have liked to see.
That was Andrew, right? Yeah. That's probably why. Yeah.
I mean, he's, he's the spare at that point. He was what? Second or third in line. But considering his recent events.
Oh, yes. They probably didn't want to have to deal with his storyline any more than they absolutely had to. That's a possibility too. Which is why I love that you get the one episode where the queen has to confront the idea that it is possible to have a favorite child, even though parents say they don't.
And so she spends time with each and every single one of her kids to figure out, okay, do I have a favorite child? Yeah, I do. Yes. Okay, well, I was gonna ask this anyway, because this seems like a perfectly good time.
Do you have a favorite royal based on how they're portrayed on the show, not in real life? Do you have a favorite royal you think would be an interesting person to sit down and hang out with, have a beer and pizza with? You mean outside of Diana, because that was the obvious choice. Yeah, Diana seems to be obvious, but yeah.
Margaret. Margaret, really? I think she's very interesting, kind of in the way that we also have, like, Harry. Yeah, Harry is very much his aunt.
Both are kind of the spare. Yeah, they are the spare in the relationship, which means they kind of are all, as the queen says in one of her last lines of the show, the institution protects number one. It doesn't always look after number two. They need more care.
Yes. Which I thought that was a brilliant line, by the way. But Margaret, I feel, she understands the idea to duty, to queen, to country, history, the amount of history that she has gone through. But also, I think there's, she also had a life to her that keeps her somewhat in touch with the world.
Yes. In that He was on set when that happened, when the queen died. And she was off. She was actually scheduled off from the show for the next 10 days, which turned out to be the 10 days of mourning in England.
Oh, wow. So she kind of locked herself away and was mentally dealing with all of that. She watched the funeral, and then the next day had to go back to work, and it sent everyone into a shock when she walked on set in the outfit. Imagine so.
I can't begin to kind of understand all of that process, especially, you know, playing a real personage, and then that person dying. And I would think, if you didn't have it already, you suddenly get a very large sense of responsibility about that. Oh, I would too. Honestly, I'm not even sure how I would handle it as an actor, as a performer.
That would definitely fuck with my head. What was your favorite set of actors? As you have stated, we do a time shift and we do a cast change every two years. It's hard because I really like Matt Smith's Philip.
Olivia Colman's Elizabeth, I think, is probably the best. And when she's with... Tobias Menzies? No, Margaret.
Helena Bonham Carter? Helena Bonham Carter. Yes, thank you. When they're together, they sometimes have a little bit of lightness to their relationship, which I really enjoyed.
I said for that episode of Discovering About the Cousins with the developmental issues, when the two go off to find the peerage books in the library and one... It's actually kind of adorable. Yeah, it's cute. Helena Bonham Carter's up there and she pulls one of these heavy books down and she jokingly goes, catch!
It was just like a fun, silly moment. And in that moment, I was like, I want to see these two actresses playing matronly women living out in the countryside somewhere solving mysteries. I just want these dudes to stumble into mysteries once a week and they figure out who murdered Farmer Brown or whatever. They would have a great chemistry.
I think it would be a fun show to do. Somebody call the BBC. I've got a pitch. With me, Vanessa Kirby as Margaret.
Olivia Colman as Queen Elizabeth. I really think Jonathan Price for me is the best Duke of Edinburgh. Jonathan Price is just freaking wonderful in everything. I've been a fan of his since I first saw him in Brazil back in the 80s.
I was like, who's this guy? He's awesome. I've got to give it to... I love Elizabeth Debicki and Dominic West is...
He's not bad. He's not what I would have gone with, but I have to give it to Josh O'Connor and Emma Corrin as Charles and Diana. Oh God, yeah. They were just too good to be ignored.
My problem with Dominic West is he's good in the role, but visually, he's a bit of a jar. He doesn't quite look like Charles. He's the one who doesn't look like him the most. He didn't do anything with his ears.
Speaking of characters... When you see Elizabeth, when they recast and recast, it feels very... It works. It works very well.
There are some characters that they do great with the casting on. All of the Elizabeths. Anne and Margaret Thatcher. And then you get some things that are just like, did you just grab somebody off the street?
Like, I'm sorry, JFK. Michael C. Hall, don't want me tonight. He's fine.
He's a good actor, but he doesn't look like Kennedy. His accent wasn't there. Their Jackie, though, was... Their Jackie was a lot better on that.
And to be honest, I'm okay with that because Jackie is the more important character in that episode. And Johnson wasn't that great either, to be honest. Yeah. Oh, and Winston Churchill.
I was just going to say, my man, John Lithgow. Sorry, Gary Oldman. I love you, but I think John Lithgow out-Churchilled you. Oh, very much so.
He got more room to play, though, as Churchill, to add a lot more layers. A lot more time. Yeah, so again, it's maybe not that fair a comparison. Oh, and speaking of Churchill, though, that does bring me up to one of the last two things that kind of got under my skin a little bit about...
If you see a common person and we spend more than 15 or 20 seconds with them, we get to know them. We get to, oh, this is a wonderful person. They have a life. They have dreams.
They have ambitions. We've learned a little bit about them. Oh, they're dead. They are on the chopping block.
And that started with the secretary and the fog. The secretary that Churchill had during the anti-cyclone. And, you know, she disappeared in the fog and died from the lung ailments because of that. And I recognize that as...
I don't want to call that character a plot device, but it does have a specific plot function. It is good for emotional tugging of the heartstrings. I think it also... Joss Whedon probably was very proud when he saw it happen over and over and over again going, I did that.
I'm okay with it because it shows that these people have a duty and a responsibility to those that they let down. Yeah, yeah. And they have to carry that with them. But I would have liked to have seen maybe, like, some characters who were, for lack of a better term, you know, downstairs and not upstairs.
Well, this isn't Downton Abbey, honey. I know. Or Victoria. I'm saying to throw some sharper leaf onto the big decisions and the big crises that they're facing.
I think would have been an interesting way to do that. Again, maybe I'm reviewing the show for what I would like out of it instead of what it is, which is unfair. But one thing that it does do every now and then, it starts off with a shocking scene and then we go three months earlier. And it's good for that trope at least once a season, if not twice a season.
We get, you know, something happening and then we go back for all the setup. And trust the audience, especially after the first or second season, once it became very popular, trust us to be able to start off slow. You don't have to do the big bang and then, you know, to catch us and then reel us in with the backstory of all of that for the next 30, 40 minutes. You know, start off small and let us, you know, build up to that.
Is, you know, is what I'm saying. When you have a downtime episode, because it's Netflix and you're not being given a, like, next time on trailers or whatever. It is a slow building show. After a while, it does become a case of, okay, I hit this one and I'm exhausted.
Maybe I'll come back to it in a couple days later and, oh, we have now skipped the credits. We're heading into the next episode. I don't know if I want to keep going. I'm really tired.
I got things I got to do. Oh, wait, what just happened there? I got to find out what happened. So you're saying doing that over and over is more of a...
A case to keep people watching. Yeah. It's a factor of the binge watching model. Yes.
Yeah. So would you then say maybe Netflix should have dropped it week by week by week? Netflix doesn't drop any show week by week. They've done it a couple of times, but generally...
Not really. Not really. So they'll drop half seasons with the exception of, like, the last season of Stranger Things. I think the last couple episodes were spaced out a little more, but overall, no, it's either you're getting half a season or you're getting the whole season.
And then it's on you as a viewer too. Yeah, but that's, like I said, that's an issue with the binge model and whether that's good for Netflix or not in terms of engagement in short term versus, well, everybody talked about the thing that dropped on Friday until Tuesday, as opposed to, hey, that show that Netflix keeps giving us one week every week for 10 weeks that everybody talks about for that whole week. Yeah, that's a bigger question than just outside of the crown involved. But it works for them.
They haven't seemed to have had an issue with viewership on this, but at the exact same time, I understand the need to constantly keep people involved. I want to really quickly give credit where credit's due. I believe that this is the first time majorly we've seen any sort of portrayal of William, Harry and Kate on screen. Okay.
Yeah. In terms of being a bigger role that is focused on, the actors don't really have any credits to their name. They are all newcomers. Specifically Ed McVay, who plays Prince William from the age of about 18 all the way through his mid-20s.
Yeah. Holy crap. These kids are going to hit the stratosphere. Stratosphere?
Stratosphere. Did they do, just based on the time frame in season six, did we have a different actor playing Harry for the first couple of episodes? Because it felt like there was a huge growth spurt between episode four and five. It felt like.
I can't remember. I've got to check that again. It just popped into my head now. I watched season four last month and I did notice.
Season six, I'm talking about though. Between episode four and five. That's what I meant. I'm sorry.
Season six. They dropped the first part. So all the way up to episode four last month. And I know that they had different actors switch playing William.
I don't, I think they may have had a different actors And I don't think, I'm not quite certain if that's been doffed yet. That would be something to look into at some point. But I think on that point, though. Like the queen exiting Westminster, we're gonna wrap this up.
Yes, exactly. The crown, all six episodes, all six seasons, all 60 hours of it are now available on Netflix. Remember, you can find us online at bigpicturepod.com and we are available on iTunes and Google Play. You know the spiel.
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You just took half of what I was going to say. Yes, I did. Please join us next time as we wrap up 2023 with a look at another film that's just celebrated its 20th anniversary. We are taking a trip to Middle Earth, ladies and gentlemen.