EPISODE · Feb 5, 2020
Cypherpunk Bitstream 0x05: Security I
from Cypherpunk Bitstream · host TAZ 0
We talk about security and the current state of the security system (police, intelligence services, and the military). Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Show Notes What is security 00:02:05 What is security: Security VS Safety. Security: unexpected events that go back to an actor, Safety: maintaining a status. 00:07:20 Entropy: things decay. Security is not a natural state, but must be maintained. 00:09:10 Evil people: psychpaths, predators. 00:09:50 Circumstances: acting irrationally. 00:10:25 Hackers: Red Hats, joy of overcoming security systems. 00:11:11 WASP Privilege: no exposure to threats, stuff works most of the time, no incentive to learn about security. Systems 00:12:29 High trust society VS low trust society: Low trust comes with high cost and less functional societies. 00:16:16 Symptoms of societies with low trust: different environments are what make them. 00:16:50 Universal core values of humans: self-preservation, protecting family and friends, private zones, no drama. 00:18:05 High trust society needs maintenance, will get eroded quickly by few “bad actors”. 00:19:05 How can you turn a low security, low trust environment into a high security, high trust environment? Parallel developments also possible: high security, low trust societies. 00:19:40 Trust builds from history of interactions. 00:20:13 To change, bad memories must die (social memory). See Thomas Kuhn (1962): The Structure of Scientific Revolutions 00:22:10 Western states want to make people dependent on security (stateism) and increase state control. Thus, individuals externalize security, and state is presented as the White Knight. 00:25:15 Are we being played/gamed/manipulated by the state and state actors? 00:27:38 Just doing our jobs. 00:29:50 Machiavellianism: concepts how states can work. 00:31:20 Hegelian concepts: totalist and collectivist states and politics. 00:33:20 Look at systemic issues. Institutions 00:33:30 Inspecting institutions: 1) Police. 00:39:00 Policemen’s selection bias: everyone is a potential criminal or at least a suspect. 00:40:20 Documentation work of police activity by example of firing weapons. 00:42:30 Bureaucracy can work. 00:47:30 Police in uniform VS civilian police: both are for peace preservation. 00:48:00 Military is directed outwards. 00:49:00 Carl von Clausewitz: war is the extension of politics [original: war is the continuation of politics by other means]. 00:49:39 Border guards are the middle layer between military and police (control of territorial boundaries VS maintaining territorial integrity VS maintain security within the borders). Intelligence services 00:50:00 Intelligence services: Classification: Intelligence service for proper and covert action 00:51:00 Similarities and differences to Journalism: Are intelligence services also ad-driven? 00:51:48 Intelligence Agencies report only news that can be actionable. 00:53:40 Domestic and Foreign Intelligence Services. 00:54:20 Objective reporting: Not mission driven, but report driven. 00:54:41 Two classes of intelligence services: Report requests coming out of intelligence circle, or mission driven services (Bundesverfassungsschutz, for example). 00:56:30 FBI: police organization plus intelligence aspect. 00:57:05 Intelligence services are about information, other services are about action. 00:57:40 Staatsschutz and German Intelligence: police is for prevent and investigate crimes. 00:59:05 Forensics is for police, subversive or maybe illegal actions are for intelligence work. In Germany, it’s clearly seperated; in USA, not so much. 01:02:15 CIA: Considered as Intelligence Agency. Gather information is their mandate, not catch criminals. 01:05:10 Sending in intelligence to change things: huge toolkit to act available. 01:05:50 Intelligence and Military Covert Actions are not Security, but political action. However, it‘s a security issue for the other side. International organisations 01:06:47 International Security Organizations (Europol, Interpol). No police powers, limited investigation powers. 01:08:45 Working groups: example SIS (communicating warrants in EU). 01:09:58 Organizations: example Le Circle (high-ranking intelligence chiefs), Munich Security Forum (conference with high-level security chiefs). 01:15:00 Why is their image so skewed in the public? (The „Spy Story“) 01:18:00 Rubicon Series (2010) 01:19:25 CSI Series (2000) - all about forensic analysis of crime scenes, but in reality it‘s not the dominant part, only few questions can be answered. 01:21:28 Playbook crime following the standard model VS outliers. 01:22:55 Being secretive about methods means keeping the advantage from opponents: intelligence agencies VS intelligence agencies from other countries; police VS criminals. 01:23:40 Sources 1) Scientific Fields: Criminalistics, Criminology. (Education Material for people that train police, manuals and coursework can be brought on Amazon, also check out libraries). 01:25:34 Sources 2) Reports: Indictments, Warrants (a lot are public, depending on country). Caveat: contains successes and legal processes only. 01:27:08 Sources 3) Private Conversation with Policemen, Investigators, Intelligence People to get a more accurate picture about their work. Public private partnerships 01:29:39 Private Security Services. 01:30:45 Cybercrime Investigations: Takedown of Cyberpunker 2 (200 servers in a German bunker). 01:32:25 Private Companies helping the police in Cybercrime Investigation. 01:32:40 Analyzing digital evidence: Given to a lab from a private company. (Cyberforensics, not done by police) 01:34:18 White-Collar Crime: Fraud, Commercial Fraud cases etc. Corporate Investigators for hire: Forensic Accountants, etc. (Police work only for special investigator power, or force powers.) 01:37:10 Corporations can use private security services when police are bound legally (for example, in bribing), then sanatize the data and give it to the police. 01:41:28 Informal communication lines… like in every other industry. (But with special privileges: Police, Military, Intelligence) 01:43:04 Presumably Cardinal Richelieu: „If you give me (three, or two) six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find (seven reasons) something in them which will hang him.“, this quote might be originated by memorialist Françoise Bertraut de Motteville (1723), and was later paraphrased. 01:44:46 Real-life cases have a lot of ambiguity going on. It‘s a work of probabilities, not a binary process. 01:45:45 Can you cover up a crime as a non-corrupt policeman? 01:46:50 Private Security Services exploit the ambiguity of policework (someone bringing you from outside a full case, only verification needed, negative evidence often gets lost). 01:48:21 Political Aspect: which crimes are deemed important? 01:49:20 Lobbying and capital power: Intellectual Property Crimes. 01:50:44 Industry identifies perpretators and delivers them to police. 01:50:58 Filesharing: Machine investigating and filing reports, backchanneling, automated sting operation (example, IP-Echelon). 01:56:08 Private Agencies provide: Analysis of evidence, production of leads, investigation. 01:56:26 Money Laundering: not based on investigative results, but on information provided by for example NGOs (example, Transparency International). 01:59:28 Chain Analysis Companies produce risk scores for Cryptocurrency Adresses (public keys). 02:01:05 Face recognition to identify suspects: example, Clearview AI (finding people software) 02:02:20 Police relies on outside, unchecked influence: Private Actors (non-illegmitate). Private Intelligence 02:03:25 Recap of Episode: What outside input is influencing the police Policy definition Intelligence field 02:04:22 Tax crimes: special investigators who actively try to find criminals. 02:04:39 Organized Crime: preventitive task of police (dismantling organizations, Staatsschutz). 02:05:35 Civil Disobedience: infiltration by police and private companies. 02:07:00 Private Security: 3 categories private intelligence services private security services private military contractors. 02:09:38 Private Intelligence is information gathering. 02:09:53 Private Intelligence VS corporate espionage. 02:11:11 First example. 02:15:00 Why is there so much cheap spy tech for sale? 02:19:53 Second example: credit suisse incident. 02:21:12 Some serious health concerns for the operators and middlemen (in-betweens). 02:24:05 Birds of a feather flock together: blurry lines of corporate, state, and private decision makers (different sides of the law). 02:26:29 Book/Thesis: Stephan Blancke (2011): Geheimdienstliche Aktivitäten nicht-staatlicher Akteure (private intelligence activities by non-state actors) 02:27:11 Private inflitrators, informants and agent provocateurs. 02:28:10 Extinction rebellion and very active activists. 02:30:30 Capture bounties. 02:32:45 A quiet business: private infiltration intelligence services (IMSI-catchers) are often ex police, ex military etc. 02:34:40 Sharing information services between intelligence: 4 eyes, 14 eyes. 02:38:05 HCPP and game theory: will the cryptoanarchists ever get something done? 02:39:00 Today’s security system is like antique byzantine, easy to understand from outside, inside not easy to understand- even for the players themselves. 02:40:25 Ross Ulbricht and Silk Road made agents run with money—is it the only case, only in this direction? 02:42:00 State systems’ marketing: “protect and serve” by angels? But, ACAB is also wrong. 02:45:55 Take personal responsibility for own security. Outlook 02:48:40 Developments/outlook: technologies that make globalization possible, organizational technologies, reporting and communication. 02:50:25 Old days: reporting was sampling (today: big data, AI). 02:51:00 New incentive structures: financial markets. Old: financial markets were not global, slow. Today: Global financial markets mean indirect profit from activities like war, markets can be complex, distributed, longer reach. 02:52:50 Even dumb criminals can use smart technologies (Dropgangs). 02:54:00 The mastermind/ intelligent criminals VS random criminals: attribution becomes problematic (witness problem, no review pointers). 02:57:24 Book: Evan Ratliff (2019): The Mastermind. Drugs. Empire. Murder. Betrayal. (Paul LeRoux) Wrap up 03:00:59 Donation Report Reading Recommendations Thomas Kuhn (1962): The Structure of Scientific Revolutions Machiavelli Hegel Carl von Clausewitz Rubicon Series (2010) Stephan Blancke (2011): Geheimdienstliche Aktivitäten nicht-staatlicher Akteure (private intelligence activities by non-state actors) Evan Ratliff (2019): The Mastermind. Drugs. Empire. Murder. Betrayal. (Paul LeRoux) Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: [email protected] PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Snail mail Bitstream Scanbox #06965 Ehrenbergstr. 16a 10245 Berlin Germany Please send us feedback letters, postcards, and interesting books. You can also send us your dirty fiat by cash in the mail! We take all currencies. Support Please support Cypherpunk Bitstream by donating to: Bitcoin: 38mzCtXHjgq6RusYQsFy2TQiLvLK7vN5JF (also via lightning network) Bitcoin Cash: qrpwhtsag0u4rnuam9a5vwmqnly96znas5f5txjc35 Decred: Dsi9j7SdwZrHtCfUmxTNgpVGx2YAboZc7ve Monero: 87UPx5sBS6g6wTvyRqqSMfFM6DzfHCPtFE25VC62vfohZVv4RRNcwif1XAPWTF27U1BKZEsrEXzDr6bMnGoTcThATvamE73 NEAR: bitstream.near Zcash: t1ewcXqQ9Uog5gMYjeeV46WiWB5j2SwD9Sv
What this episode covers
We talk about security and the current state of the security system (police, intelligence services, and the military). Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Show Notes What is security 00:02:05 What is security: Security VS Safety. Security: unexpected events that go back to an actor, Safety: maintaining a status. 00:07:20 Entropy: things decay. Security is not a natural state, but must be maintained. 00:09:10 Evil people: psychpaths, predators. 00:09:50 Circumstances: acting irrationally. 00:10:25 Hackers: Red Hats, joy of overcoming security systems. 00:11:11 WASP Privilege: no exposure to threats, stuff works most of the time, no incentive to learn about security. Systems 00:12:29 High trust society VS low trust society: Low trust comes with high cost and less functional societies. 00:16:16 Symptoms of societies with low trust: different environments are what make them. 00:16:50 Universal core values of humans: self-preservation, protecting family and friends, private zones, no drama. 00:18:05 High trust society needs maintenance, will get eroded quickly by few “bad actors”. 00:19:05 How can you turn a low security, low trust environment into a high security, high trust environment? Parallel developments also possible: high security, low trust societies. 00:19:40 Trust builds from history of interactions. 00:20:13 To change, bad memories must die (social memory). See Thomas Kuhn (1962): The Structure of Scientific Revolutions 00:22:10 Western states want to make people dependent on security (stateism) and increase state control. Thus, individuals externalize security, and state is presented as the White Knight. 00:25:15 Are we being played/gamed/manipulated by the state and state actors? 00:27:38 Just doing our jobs. 00:29:50 Machiavellianism: concepts how states can work. 00:31:20 Hegelian concepts: totalist and collectivist states and politics. 00:33:20 Look at systemic issues. Institutions 00:33:30 Inspecting institutions: 1) Police. 00:39:00 Policemen’s selection bias: everyone is a potential criminal or at least a suspect. 00:40:20 Documentation work of police activity by example of firing weapons. 00:42:30 Bureaucracy can work. 00:47:30 Police in uniform VS civilian police: both are for peace preservation. 00:48:00 Military is directed outwards. 00:49:00 Carl von Clausewitz: war is the extension of politics [original: war is the continuation of politics by other means]. 00:49:39 Border guards are the middle layer between military and police (control of territorial boundaries VS maintaining territorial integrity VS maintain security within the borders). Intelligence services 00:50:00 Intelligence services: Classification: Intelligence service for proper and covert action 00:51:00 Similarities and differences to Journalism: Are intelligence services also ad-driven? 00:51:48 Intelligence Agencies report only news that can be actionable. 00:53:40 Domestic and Foreign Intelligence Services. 00:54:20 Objective reporting: Not mission driven, but report driven. 00:54:41 Two classes of intelligence services: Report requests coming out of intelligence circle, or mission driven services (Bundesverfassungsschutz, for example). 00:56:30 FBI: police organization plus intelligence aspect. 00:57:05 Intelligence services are about information, other services are about action. 00:57:40 Staatsschutz and German Intelligence: police is for prevent and investigate crimes. 00:59:05 Forensics is for police, subversive or maybe illegal actions are for intelligence work. In Germany, it’s clearly seperated; in USA, not so much. 01:02:15 CIA: Considered as Intelligence Agency. Gather information is their mandate, not catch criminals. 01:05:10 Sending in intelligence to change things: huge toolkit to act available. 01:05:50 Intelligence and Military Covert Actions are not Security, but political action. However, it‘s a security issue for the other side. International organisations 01:06:47 International Security Organizations (Europol, Interpol). No police powers, limited investigation powers. 01:08:45 Working groups: example SIS (communicating warrants in EU). 01:09:58 Organizations: example Le Circle (high-ranking intelligence chiefs), Munich Security Forum (conference with high-level security chiefs). 01:15:00 Why is their image so skewed in the public? (The „Spy Story“) 01:18:00 Rubicon Series (2010) 01:19:25 CSI Series (2000) - all about forensic analysis of crime scenes, but in reality it‘s not the dominant part, only few questions can be answered. 01:21:28 Playbook crime following the standard model VS outliers. 01:22:55 Being secretive about methods means keeping the advantage from opponents: intelligence agencies VS intelligence agencies from other countries; police VS criminals. 01:23:40 Sources 1) Scientific Fields: Criminalistics, Criminology. (Education Material for people that train police, manuals and coursework can be brought on Amazon, also check out libraries). 01:25:34 Sources 2) Reports: Indictments, Warrants (a lot are public, depending on country). Caveat: contains successes and legal processes only. 01:27:08 Sources 3) Private Conversation with Policemen, Investigators, Intelligence People to get a more accurate picture about their work. Public private partnerships 01:29:39 Private Security Services. 01:30:45 Cybercrime Investigations: Takedown of Cyberpunker 2 (200 servers in a German bunker). 01:32:25 Private Companies helping the police in Cybercrime Investigation. 01:32:40 Analyzing digital evidence: Given to a lab from a private company. (Cyberforensics, not done by police) 01:34:18 White-Collar Crime: Fraud, Commercial Fraud cases etc. Corporate Investigators for hire: Forensic Accountants, etc. (Police work only for special investigator power, or force powers.) 01:37:10 Corporations can use private security services when police are bound legally (for example, in bribing), then sanatize the data and give it to the police. 01:41:28 Informal communication lines… like in every other industry. (But with special privileges: Police, Military, Intelligence) 01:43:04 Presumably Cardinal Richelieu: „If you give me (three, or two) six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find (seven reasons) something in them which will hang him.“, this quote might be originated by memorialist Françoise Bertraut de Motteville (1723), and was later paraphrased. 01:44:46 Real-life cases have a lot of ambiguity going on. It‘s a work of probabilities, not a binary process. 01:45:45 Can you cover up a crime as a non-corrupt policeman? 01:46:50 Private Security Services exploit the ambiguity of policework (someone bringing you from outside a full case, only verification needed, negative evidence often gets lost). 01:48:21 Political Aspect: which crimes are deemed important? 01:49:20 Lobbying and capital power: Intellectual Property Crimes. 01:50:44 Industry identifies perpretators and delivers them to police. 01:50:58 Filesharing: Machine investigating and filing reports, backchanneling, automated sting operation (example, IP-Echelon). 01:56:08 Private Agencies provide: Analysis of evidence, production of leads, investigation. 01:56:26 Money Laundering: not based on investigative results, but on information provided by for example NGOs (example, Transparency International). 01:59:28 Chain Analysis Companies produce risk scores for Cryptocurrency Adresses (public keys). 02:01:05 Face recognition to identify suspects: example, Clearview AI (finding people software) 02:02:20 Police relies on outside, unchecked influence: Private Actors (non-illegmitate). Private Intelligence 02:03:25 Recap of Episode: What outside input is influencing the police Policy definition Intelligence field 02:04:22 Tax crimes: special investigators who actively try to find criminals. 02:04:39 Organized Crime: preventitive task of police (dismantling organizations, Staatsschutz). 02:05:35 Civil Disobedience: infiltration by police and private companies. 02:07:00 Private Security: 3 categories private intelligence services private security services private military contractors. 02:09:38 Private Intelligence is information gathering. 02:09:53 Private Intelligence VS corporate espionage. 02:11:11 First example. 02:15:00 Why is there so much cheap spy tech for sale? 02:19:53 Second example: credit suisse incident. 02:21:12 Some serious health concerns for the operators and middlemen (in-betweens). 02:24:05 Birds of a feather flock together: blurry lines of corporate, state, and private decision makers (different sides of the law). 02:26:29 Book/Thesis: Stephan Blancke (2011): Geheimdienstliche Aktivitäten nicht-staatlicher Akteure (private intelligence activities by non-state actors) 02:27:11 Private inflitrators, informants and agent provocateurs. 02:28:10 Extinction rebellion and very active activists. 02:30:30 Capture bounties. 02:32:45 A quiet business: private infiltration intelligence services (IMSI-catchers) are often ex police, ex military etc. 02:34:40 Sharing information services between intelligence: 4 eyes, 14 eyes. 02:38:05 HCPP and game theory: will the cryptoanarchists ever get something done? 02:39:00 Today’s security system is like antique byzantine, easy to understand from outside, inside not easy to understand- even for the players themselves. 02:40:25 Ross Ulbricht and Silk Road made agents run with money—is it the only case, only in this direction? 02:42:00 State systems’ marketing: “protect and serve” by angels? But, ACAB is also wrong. 02:45:55 Take personal responsibility for own security. Outlook 02:48:40 Developments/outlook: technologies that make globalization possible, organizational technologies, reporting and communication. 02:50:25 Old days: reporting was sampling (today: big data, AI). 02:51:00 New incentive structures: financial markets. Old: financial markets were not global, slow. Today: Global financial markets mean indirect profit from activities like war, markets can be complex, distributed, longer reach. 02:52:50 Even dumb criminals can use smart technologies (Dropgangs). 02:54:00 The mastermind/ intelligent criminals VS random criminals: attribution becomes problematic (witness problem, no review pointers). 02:57:24 Book: Evan Ratliff (2019): The Mastermind. Drugs. Empire. Murder. Betrayal. (Paul LeRoux) Wrap up 03:00:59 Donation Report Reading Recommendations Thomas Kuhn (1962): The Structure of Scientific Revolutions Machiavelli Hegel Carl von Clausewitz Rubicon Series (2010) Stephan Blancke (2011): Geheimdienstliche Aktivitäten nicht-staatlicher Akteure (private intelligence activities by non-state actors) Evan Ratliff (2019): The Mastermind. Drugs. Empire. Murder. Betrayal. (Paul LeRoux) Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: [email protected] PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Snail mail Bitstream Scanbox #06965 Ehrenbergstr. 16a 10245 Berlin Germany Please send us feedback letters, postcards, and interesting books. You can also send us your dirty fiat by cash in the mail! We take all currencies. Support Please support Cypherpunk Bitstream by donating to: Bitcoin: 38mzCtXHjgq6RusYQsFy2TQiLvLK7vN5JF (also via lightning network) Bitcoin Cash: qrpwhtsag0u4rnuam9a5vwmqnly96znas5f5txjc35 Decred: Dsi9j7SdwZrHtCfUmxTNgpVGx2YAboZc7ve Monero: 87UPx5sBS6g6wTvyRqqSMfFM6DzfHCPtFE25VC62vfohZVv4RRNcwif1XAPWTF27U1BKZEsrEXzDr6bMnGoTcThATvamE73 NEAR: bitstream.near Zcash: t1ewcXqQ9Uog5gMYjeeV46WiWB5j2SwD9Sv
NOW PLAYING
Cypherpunk Bitstream 0x05: Security I
No transcript for this episode yet
Similar Episodes
Jul 6, 2026 ·60m
Jun 30, 2026 ·58m
Jun 21, 2026 ·122m
Jun 15, 2026 ·95m
Jun 1, 2026 ·67m
May 28, 2026 ·57m