Death Row Granny

Hi, I'm Holly and I'm Hailey. Welcome to Mountain Mysteries, Tales from Appalachia. Hi. Feels like we just met in a bar or something.

Hi. Hi. Would you like a drink? I might have one already thinks.

Oh, wow. That feels so like here you encourage me and say hi and then when I offered you the drink you're like, how did it happen? The thing. That felt like you put a wall up quickly.

Yeah, it did. I don't think this relationship's going to work. Okay, I'll just go there. This is, this mirrors your text messaging.

You will text message me something. I've applied to you and nothing. It's just like dead. It's like what is happening?

Yeah, no, I'm a really bad text. It's terrible at that. It's not really thing. Even if she initiates.

Yeah, it's just the problem is here's the problem. It's like I'll text somebody and then read what they've responded to and like, oh yeah, I'll respond to that in a minute. It doesn't respond. It just doesn't happen.

So if there's an emergency and I'm like, I actively need your help, please help me. You better call me. You're just not going to respond to me. Yeah, you better call because sometimes I text as much as it opened for hours.

And by that point, I have passed. Holly's passed on. Yes, so bad. Too bad.

Hayley didn't read that text. She could have saved a life tonight. Yeah, if I don't read my text. That's all right.

You know, my people are good at things. No, but you know, it's so funny. You're good at many other things. I actually was thinking about, so my son's getting ready to have his birthday and I was thinking about when he was born.

It was so sweet. Hayley came to the hospital and she held him. He cute little pictures and then we were home from the hospital about, I don't know, about a week. Yeah.

And you and another friend of ours came over and Hayley was like, I got a couple things for the baby. You know, and I was like, oh, great. It wasn't a couple things. She had like, she got all these diapers and all these little outfits and it was so cute.

And I was like, oh my gosh. It was so extra. It was amazing. And we still have all of the clothes.

No. She had a little St. Patrick's Day shirt with that lucky laugh. Yeah, so cute.

It was so tiny. She had a little, what was it? Oh, I'm sorry. Everything that was in that.

It's a cute little animal and it was like hanging on. It was really cute. It was, I can't remember what type of animal it was. And a lot of that was like my mother.

It was so cute. Yeah. I know everybody was so excited. I was excited too, but I was also barely functioned.

Yeah, very so freaking tired. Yeah, overwhelmed. Yeah, overwhelmed tired. All the things.

But yeah, there's this picture of Hayley holding my son when she came and he looked so tiny, like just so little. And I think you just kind of forget it. Except for just like how little they actually are. He's like, I have like one hand on him, like halfway on my chest.

And he's just like snuggled in. He's so tiny, a little seed underneath him, like just itty bitty. And I have a picture of her holding him on her birthday. A little over a year later.

And he's like ginormous. The same way he's going to sleep on you. And I'm like, oh my gosh. So much bigger.

Yeah. He was a little guy though. He was so tight. He was about three weeks early.

So he was like six poundish. But yeah, he was a little surprised. Coming into the hospital. It was like right as COVID was kind of starting.

We didn't know a whole lot. Yeah. And they were getting stricter on who could come in. They were.

We still weren't in masks. Not yet. We weren't in masks. And they were like, kind of weird about who could come in.

And like how to be family. Yeah. So I was your sister for a minute. But I had a lot of people who ended up being my sister.

So I myself don't have any sisters. But every time, I knew you guys were coming out. And we were like, oh, so another one of my sisters is coming. And they were probably like, what's this?

We have a Mormon. Like what happened? And it was so funny because my sisters all looked very different. When I was a brunette with glasses.

One was a really tall blonde. One was a red head. The other were married to each other. Yeah.

They were married to each other. Yeah. That one was the one that I think really got them. That had some confusion there.

Yeah. But I was like, yeah. You know, you're a very open family. We married.

We have the South. We married each other. We married each other. Don't worry about it.

It's fine. It's fine. So when my mother eventually came to visit, she got some dirty looks. I'm going to say, because she was kind of the war.

Like, oh my gosh. Yeah. Well, and it was funny because I remember getting to the hospital. And like you said, three weeks early, it was kind of a surprise.

And like, whoa. So we didn't know. Like a lot of us, we didn't know what name you had picked. Right.

So because that was kind of like why else. Didn't know if he was a boy or a girl. Right. Yeah.

We didn't know. It was just so much was going on. So I remember getting to the hospital. And I hadn't asked for his like, I had your name.

And they're like, oh, who are you here to see? And I gave him your name. And they're like, oh, what's baby's name? I was like, um, baby.

Holly's baby. Baby. And they looked at me like I was weird. And I was like, oh, there's a lot going on.

Like, you know, I don't really know. And they were like, OK, so they like walked away for a minute and then they let me come back. And I was like, I'm not going to go back. They're like, I don't know.

They're like, I don't know. All she had to say was I'm Holly's sister, Bann. I know what I got in it. Or I was like, I don't actually know.

Like, I don't know my nephew's name. Sorry. Well, I actually didn't either. I mean, you know, tried to figure out.

I had in my head so many girl names, it was ridiculous. And I was like, OK, if this is a girl, BAM, this is it. Not a problem. Point names are hard.

Well, my younger, my little brother, I know my parents had a hard time with his name. Like, I think he was he was baby boy, their last name for like a good minute. Was he really? I thought they had a name picked out.

They did. They had picked one name out. And then my both my parents are paramedics. Yeah.

And my mom worked a fatality of the kid who had that name that she had picked out. And so that she didn't keep that name. He says. So then she was like, I can't use that name now because now I'm going to see as this other parents deceased child, like really bad accident.

And as a having been a teacher and as a therapist working with kids, I really noticed that in my classroom, those boys with those like hardcore biblical names were like hell on wheels. And sees that I don't mean to be disrespectful if you have a really solid biblical name. But those like Zachary's and Jeremiah's and Jacob's were like awful. The Zadans and the Bradens and the Aiden's and the Cadans.

I have a multitude of those. They're the great kids. I love them. But they are hell on wheels.

Yes. I love those kids. They're my favorite kids in the building have those names. But I'm like, oh my god.

I know. It's been so good. So in picking like my son's name, I was like, I can't do this. Like, try a biblical name.

So well, so Zachary I was out. Well, the name you picked was great. I love it. It's good.

I love it. Yeah. He looks like his name. I think he does.

Awesome. Thank you. Good job. Yay.

Yeah. All right. So let's get into talking about something with kind of a unique name. Oh, Velma Margie Barfield.

Velma. Velma. You know, I can't say I know any Velmas. I can't either.

The only one I know is from Scimmy. It just strikes me as such an old name. Yeah, for sure. So we're going to talk about her because she made international headlines.

Uh oh, what'd you do? She became the first woman to be executed in America since 1962. Hell. And first since the reintroduction of the death penalty in 1976.

She was also the first woman to be executed by lethal injection, which is seemingly more humane way to die. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So she was put to death at 2 AM on the second of November in 1984 at the Central Prison in Raleigh, North Carolina. Oh. She was a somewhat plump 52-year-old grandmother. Somewhat plump.

Who had murdered four people? Oh. That's not cool, Granny. Yeah.

Why? Wait a minute. She was a 52-year-old grandma. Well, people had to do that.

Yeah. Yeah. Velma was addicted to drugs. Prescription drugs, such as tranquilizers, sleeping pills, incense, presense, and barbiturates.

You know, first of all, my image of Granny, when you say her name and all the things, I think 80-year-old gray-haired all the stuff. So that's first what I pictured. And then you told me she was a 50-year-old. You pictured my Granny.

Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, a little different. And then you said she was 52. And I'm like, good lord, I'll be 52 in like a decade.

Like it's not coming to you. My mom will be 50 this year. Yeah. Yeah.

Like it's coming soon. So that doesn't make sense. And then she's addicted to drugs? Yeah.

I mean, prescription nonetheless, but drugs. So drugs. Her addiction actually stemmed from a nervous breakdown. And she had a history of overdosing as subsequent hospital treatments with four admissions between 1972 and 1975.

So we were struggling with some mental health. Oh, yeah, for sure. OK. Well, let's get into who she was.

OK. Let's do it. Yeah. OK.

So she was born on the 23rd of October, 1932, in North Carolina, near the Raleigh area. She was the oldest girl in the second of a large family of nine children. So she's number two. So there's a boy.

Her first girl. Yeah. Her first girl. She claimed her father had beat and sexually assaulted her and her sisters, although this was disputed by many other relatives.

So you won't know if that's 100% accurate, but it could be. I mean, you never know. Well, sometimes you have relatives who are protecting the family. Yeah, they do.

And the image. Absolutely. She dropped out of school. And by age 19, she had two children.

Wow. Yeah, she did have them. She had a son named Ron and a daughter named Kim by her first husband, Thomas. OK.

So to begin with, their marriage was happy. And they seemed like a pretty normal family unit. All of that, though, began to deteriorate when Thomas suffered head injuries in a car crash in 1966 and became unable to work. Velma got a job in a store to make ends meet and support the family.

So she had been kind of a stay-at-home mom. Yeah. He gets in a car crash. She has to go to work.

She has to go to work. So there's some, you know, not outward towards him, but in a way there's some resentment to that's building because now her whole world is shaking out. Yeah. It means everything's changing.

Yeah. So Thomas rapidly became an alcoholic. And Velma began to take antidepressants and tranquilizers to get her through the daily stress of what was becoming a pretty miserable life. Ultimately, she had a breakdown and became addicted to the various drugs.

So she was really, really struggling. Yeah. In 1969, Thomas actually died in a house fire, which may or may not have been an accident. It's not really been proven.

So is it, is it? We're kind of leaning up here at that. She was kind of pushed to the edge. And she was like, we got to get rid of Tom, because I'm just kind of done with this.

Yeah. Yeah. Not a good idea, Velma. Not great.

No. No. No. Get a divorce.

Yeah. So that's not, you know, totally been proven. Velma remarried in 1972 at Jennings Barfield. So the next year.

He was dead within six months. Oh, that didn't go well. Wow. Cause of death was arsenic poisoning.

So yeah. Wow. Yeah. So Velma's limited employment at the store and some other employment opportunities that she had could not really support her drug habit.

Yeah, I couldn't see that. She took to forging checks. Wonderful. And then killing the people she had defrauded.

Well. That escalated quickly. Yeah, I did. I mean, at least they find out about it.

So you better off them too. And honestly, why stop now? Right. I mean, if you can kill someone as close to you as your spouse, why not?

Just take out a random person who's check you stolen. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

So we're going to get into some more crimes. Oh, God. There's more. Oh, yes.

Oh, yes. Oh, in 1977, she was in a relationship with Stuart Taylor. He was a widower and a tobacco farmer. And she was forging checks in his name from his account to pay for her addiction.

Right. She's doing this. The theory is that Taylor began to get suspicious because, you know, fearing that she had been found out, Velma mixed an arsenic based rat poison into his beer and tea. Taylor became very ill and Velma volunteered to nurse him back to health.

More back to the grave. As he is conditioned worse than she took him to the hospital where he died a few days later. Unfortunately for her, there was an autopsy, which found that the cause of Taylor's death was arsenic poisoning and Velma was arrested and charged with his murder. At the trial, her defense pleaded insanity, but this was not accepted and she was convicted.

The jury recommended the death sentence. Velma appeared very cold and uncaring on the stand and actually gave the district attorney a round of applause when he made his clothing speech. Oh, my gosh. So a lot going on with her.

She subsequently confessed to the murders of her own mother in 1974 and in whom name she had taken out a loan. And two elderly people, John Henry Lee, by whom she was being paid as a housekeeper and carer and Dolly Edwards, through she met through Stuart Taylor. So in grand total, she's killed Stuart, Dolly, her mother, and John Henry Lee. That we can prove.

That we can prove because we also have the other husband, Jennings Barfield, who died from arsenic poisoning and the guy who died in the fire. Yeah, Thomas. Thomas. So six.

Could potentially be six. We got four confirmed. All right. So let's talk about her time on death row.

On death row in Raleigh, Velma, who was now off drugs, expressed remorse for the years that the pills had blurred her judgment and destroyed her moral compass. However, she could not really explain why she had killed. Crack is whack, grandma. Crack is whack.

Straight up. Yeah. Straight up. She became a born and Christian while awaiting trial.

And during the next six years that she put spit on death row, she actually did a lot to help and counsel other female inmates. She was able to save her drag-dawn through various courts and there were many representations on her behalf by religious leaders. So she really seemed to be really into the Christian faith. Either was just a really good actress or had found God and changed her life.

Yeah. Either too. Well, I mean, when you know that your time is coming very, very soon, I think that you have a need to make it right with God. A lot of people do.

Yeah. Yeah. Her final appeal was filed on October 30, 1984 in the North Carolina Supreme Court on the grounds that she was incompetent at her original trial by virtue of her drug addiction. This was rejected by the court, though.

There have been many appeals on her behalf. The Supreme Court was having rejected them on three different occasions. So the governor of Carolina, James B. Hunt, declined to grant clemency and was unimpressed by her religious conversion and good behavior on death row.

So it was claimed by Hunt by some. It was claimed by some that Hunt, who was the governor at the time, could not reprieve her without looking quote, soft on crime during the run up to the state elections in 1984. Just like a bad, like reasoning to not save someone's life, but you know, whatever. I'm going to prove it to them.

I'm going to let that old lady die. Yeah. So I'm not a softy. Try to give me milk and cookies.

Well, guess what? Grandma, electric chair or no. She's a little injection. Yeah.

So she really began at this point to accept her death, you know, that she was going to die and instructed her attorney, Jimmy Liddle, to drop all appeals the day before she was due to be executed, saying that she wanted to quote, die with dignity. She had little fear of what lay ahead and is quoted as saying, when I go into that chamber at 2 AM, it's my gateway to heaven. So she really, it sounds like felt like she'd found God and found forgiveness and, you know, she was ready. Repented and found salvation and like all of that stuff.

So and maybe that's good for her. Okay. So her execution, we're talking about that, just kind of sad and like a lot. Oh, no, if Caroline lost, she was allowed the choice of execution by lethal gas or lethal injection.

And she chose lethal injection, which yeah, I would too. You could not face having a last meal and just asked a guard to get her Coca-Cola and cheese duties. Where cheese duties, she's doodles, she's doodles. She's doodles.

They're like, um, it's like a little cracker. Cheetos kind of like Cheetos. Okay. So she just asked for that.

Wow. She just didn't want, you know, she dressed in her own pink pajamas for the execution and was made to wear like, depends like a diaper. Yeah, because you can't use yourself. Yeah, usually release everything.

A stethoscope and heart monitor were taped to her chest. They wheeled the gurney. The wheeled gurney was taken to herself and she was secured to it with straps over her body and legs. Ivy's run started into her arms and a saline drip started before she was wheeled into the execution chambers a few minutes before 2am.

Three syringes were attached to each Ivy line and those were operated by three volunteers because you can't be paid for that job. I did not know that. So apparently a thing. It's a volunteer thing.

So you would have like a nurse or CNA or something to volunteer their time? Volunteer and do that. Yeah, you don't do. I guess it's probably like, I'm sure there's a lot of like sticky stuff with paying somebody to do that.

And then they're being like, oh, we're going to have the Zebel executed to pay these people to do this. I guess so, but you're paying the rest of the staff. Yeah, but I think everybody involved in that execution is a volunteer. Nobody's paid for their time.

Really? I'm 90% sure. We're going to look at that. I know these people are volunteers.

That's not a dumb list. One of the Ivy lines was a dummy line so that none of the volunteers could be sure if they had actually been the ones. That's good because then you don't have the guilt. She was pronounced at 2.15 AM.

The execution went off without any complications. At 2.25 AM, her body was taken away by awaiting ambulance, passed the crowds of pro and anti-capital punishment demonstrators who had assembled outside the prison. She had requested that her organs be used for transplant purposes, which is why they moved her so quickly. However, this was not possible as her heart had not been beating for 10 minutes.

So if your heart stops and they can get it back to beating through CPR or life support or something, they can usually harvest organs. But hers had been, she'd been down for 10 minutes and that her heart cannot be restarted. Although there were many attempts made to do that by the transplant team. However, they were able to use her cornea, so part of her eye and skin tissue.

So they were able to take some of that to be part of the donation process. So the big question in all this is, was she a monster in a serial killer or was she just someone whose brain was so messed up by drugs and needed money to pay for them and made these choices that she wouldn't otherwise have made? If not for drugs, I mean, but then I guess the drug use was a choice to begin with. Yeah, but I mean, yes, it was a choice to get into it, but then once you're into it, you can't literally get out.

You can't literally get out. It's not like, you know what, I'm going to put my hair wind down and just stop. I think people very rarely do that. And I think for people who have never been drug users, and I've never been a drug user either, but I think that I've seen people who have had drug addictions, it's easier said than done.

So many people around them are like, just stop doing it. Well, it's like, just stop breathing too. Like it becomes part of your norm. And when you're addicted to something, you need more and more and more of it.

So yeah, she couldn't just stop and just say, you know what, I'm going to stop now. She needed more and more of it. And when you're that desperate, you will do anything. And so in this case, she was offing people and I don't know, she didn't have a history of it before.

Like before the drug use, she didn't have a history of it. So it very well could be attributed to that. But I also think murder is pretty hardcore. Stealing the checks, that makes complete sense.

Like stealing someone's jewelry, a pond, go by drugs, that's complete sense. But killing is, that's a big choice. We're listening, that's not a big scene. And that's premediting.

I could see it if it's like, you're not giving me what you want. I want and killing somebody. But like, this was very premediting for sure. So then it leads you to have some questions about.

Okay. So she was in her right mind enough to do this premeditated murder and multiple murders. Yeah. And if she had to make it so right with God.

Yeah. And there was a lot of guilt going on and a lot of shame going on. So I don't know. I don't know.

I don't think I could ever, I, you know, I don't know how I 100% feel the death penalty. But I don't think I could ever be the person on a jury or a judge or anywhere near that and make a decision like that. No, I don't either. Like if I ever call for a jury duty as a capital case, like I'll be dismissed because I won't be able to do it.

I had gone for one and it was a domestic violence case. And I was the alternate, 13 and they had me come up and you know, they asked you a plethora of questions, blah, blah, blah. And the last question was one of the last questions was what do you do for a living? And I said, I'm a therapist and they said, have you ever worked in DV cases?

Domestic violence cases? And I said, yes. And they instantly, the defense was like, that's a bias. Cinder out.

And I was like, ah damn, I get to leave. And even though it was a DV case and it wasn't like a big capital case or anything like that, I wanted to, like I still felt like, you know, so I got my $12. Yeah. I found my car and I went home.

Yeah. Parking validated. Parking was validated where, you know, parking is very expensive. So I was happy about that.

I got to meet on your $12. I got my $12. Didn't work that day, but I do get my $12. Yeah.

Yeah. So it was amazing. It ate at a really good Indian food restaurant. Nice.

Nice. Yeah. No, not been wood. I have not been called for jury.

Really? Yeah. My brother thinks we called at least once, maybe twice. Yeah.

I've been called twice and I had to go once because the first time they were like, oh no, jury or jury number one, two, five, seven, all dismissed. So I'm like, hot, diggity. Yeah. Yeah.

My mom actually had to go through the hole. She was selected for the jury. Wow. She would be good.

Week-long trial. And so she had to sit on the jury. Wow. It was case.

So she would be really good. Yeah. It was pretty crazy. She has such clarity and like, you know, just handles herself really well and like has good, I don't know.

She just really good at it. I was like, better you than me. Yeah. Like a black guy.

Yeah. So she had to do that whole trial and everything. But she said to testify before, you know, it was paramedic and stuff like that. So she's been, you know.

We've been in court. Yeah. We have court pants. We do have court pants.

We used to have a running joke all the time. I was actually just telling talking to my mother about an audit that we went through and our boss was like, well, get out of your court pants because you're going to be interviewed in this audit. Yeah. No, Haley came in and addressed.

I did. I had a cute little like red dress. It was like a little sweater dress type thing. It was super cute.

And I was like, you're wearing a dress? Wow. You really stepped in. I know.

More than my jeans and my ratty t-shirts. No, you really did. I was like, wow, I'm so impressed. Yeah.

Yeah. No, our court pants. I actually kept a pair of dress pants in our directors filing drawer. She had in her office.

She had this big filing cap at the bottom drawer. I had, I think, my court pants. I think both of the guys that worked in our office had court pants in there. There were some people who got their court pants in there.

You had to have court pants because you never knew. Most of the time, we were all wearing a decent enough shirt we could go to court in. But I wore jeans a lot because in the work that we did, I was with kids all the time. I'm running around.

I'm with kids. I'm doing things. I'm hopping over to meetings. I don't care what I look like.

So I'd be in like, I mean, usually I wear black jeans or really dark wash jeans or something like that. And it was casual. But it was casual. I never thought you looked front be.

From be. So usually I had on a shirt that I could wear if I got called to court. But I never was wearing court pants. And typically, too, it would be like, you've been served and there's your subpoena.

So you kind of knew ahead of time. But not always. Sometimes there would be situations where they were like, you know, we want to be a teenager. We want to be a teenager.

We want to be a teenager. Yeah. You know, whatever. It was a lot.

We were the ones that were typically in court. But like, sometimes, like you never knew. Or like if there was a kid that was on a case load that was going into court and I had to take them to court. You still have to look decent.

Like, especially some of those judges are real strict. They are really strict. There's one judge that I know of because, you know, I have been to court a few times. Not for crimes.

Right. Just to clarify as a professional, you know, for a client. Anyway, but there was one who was like, okay, had the bailiff come out and say if any woman is dressed inappropriately, if any man does not have a shirt tucked in and his pants pulled up, you can just get out now. Seriously.

And I was like, whoa, whoa. So quickly checking myself and make sure the boobs are in and like, we have all the things that have been tucked in. Yeah. Yeah.

So there's one, there's one judge who was very strict about blazers. Really? And I remember being in that hallway, I didn't have to go into court, but I was down through there and it was when all of the family court cases were being hurt. So there's a line of social workers like, oh, and everyone was passing a blazer back and forth.

Oh my gosh. It's like somebody did have a blazer. Like somebody laid her down the line, like passing blazer. You're a large trio.

Under medium. Okay. Okay. We'll make it work.

Yeah. It's fine. Just stuck in the little pan. Yeah.

So they all kept their blazers in their offices because they were usually wearing court pants all the time, whereas we were not fancy enough for blazers. We just kept our court pants in the drawer. I was not used to that. Yeah.

I just, where I had come from before, I always wore blazers. And one of my colleagues who ended up becoming a good friend of mine because I had that pattern. She always wore heels. And I remember it was so funny.

I told her recently. I was like, remember? Like I wore blazers all the time and you wore heels. And she was like, I know.

And now we're just much more casual, but I would say, you know, work casual. Yeah, you know, casual. I dress more professionally now to work in a school than I ever did when I worked in the field. Really?

Yeah. I had recently a new employee start and she was just so nice and very professional and I was was like, look at her with her court pants. That's instantly what I thought. I know, at any time I see dress pants, I'm like, oh man, the court pants.

Court pants. But there's something about, it's this particular type of pants. It is, and fun fact, I went today to the thrift store. There's one not too far away from here.

And they had a little bin area for clothes that they marked down to a dollar. They had ton of pants. And like court pants, and I was like, scores, I bought some court pants. Yeah, it's one of those, like I have several pairs of dress pants in my closet, but not all of my dress pants are court pants.

More like church pants. Yeah, or like more comfy. Like it's got an elastic band. It's not a court pant.

Yeah, it's true, right? Dang, I love a good elastic band. Same. When you have like maternity jeans, and man, you just don't go back, Jack.

I mean, once you can just pull them up and once swipe you don't have to zip anything and button anything. Yep, it's great, it's a game changer. It's a ho. Yes, mom.

Mom pants are a game changer. I have several that have an elastic band. In the back, like the back of the melod, the front is very like neat and professional. Yes.

So you can do kind of the French tuck, where you just tuck in like the front part of your shirt and the back still out, so it covers the elastic. It's very cute, very trendy. Oh, it is. So I do that a lot with my elastic band.

So you know, trending is not the word that comes to mind when I think about my own tumbles. I mean, same. Like the kids don't make fun of me too bad. I'm probably gonna make it at school.

No, I mean, it's fine. I never feel like I dress badly. I always think I look good, nice, but. I don't understand the fashion of the children these days though, because they all roll in and like pajama pants.

Mom jeans. And what year is it? Like athletic wear. Yeah.

So I'm like, okay. Yeah. But I had one girl come up to me in tears the other day because her leggings were backy. And I was like, the first thing I've ever heard about in my life.

Okay. Okay. It's gonna be all right. And I was like, she's like, do you use the wet pants?

I'm like, no, no, I don't. So I've got about 8,000 pairs of jeans back there though. I'm probably fine to a pair. And we did.

It was all okay. She went to first period with sans baggy jeans or baggy leggings. Wow. I mean, I don't even know what to say.

I, I'm thrilled with my leggings or baggy. You could be like, wow, look how much weight I like. I know it's a bottle of suction to me. Yeah.

You know, I do have those days where I will put on something and we're totally off subject. That's fine. I will put on something. Yeah.

I'll put on something and I just, oh, I just don't like it, but I can't really come up with anything else. And I'm like, whatever. It just is what it is. And I will just go and sometimes I feel that way with my hair, because I try not to wash my hair often.

Like I, it's not helping me. Not at all of mine off. I wash it like twice a week. Yeah, I do too.

I do too. And so, um, leave in or like the hairspray that you, um, the hairspray shampoo. That's a big go to. Okay.

Where it's like, oh, I'm day five, but you can't tell. You know, so. Yeah. Well, this has been delightful.

Oh my gosh. She found out we're gross. We have to go style our leggings or tight as hell. They are.

We have big ziti tonight. We did have a ziti tonight. Sorry. I actually made it from Penne Postix and Hemsees, but tomato tomato.

One more last little off topic thing and then we'll tell you how to get in touch with this. Oh, we can't have the leggings. Um, there's apparently this like thing on TikTok that's like trend, not trend, but like new thing we're talking about legging legs. What are legging legs?

Like if you don't, like if you have legs like ours, you know, bigger thighs or so. The cellulite is on full display. I mean, I'm not sure about yours, but mine is all the time. Oh, that is.

Um, that we don't belong in leggings. Like we shouldn't wear leggings because that shows that off. We don't have legging legs. So who cares?

Right. And I will tell you, most of the women out there wearing leggings are moms who have had babies who are middle aged, all the things, I guess that I am. Um, they don't all the time. Oh, yeah.

It's enough. Yeah. I think it's mostly like obviously they're towards like younger people, but that's like that's sad. That is ridiculous.

It's like a teen or tweeing and I would be like, so am I not allowed to wear leggings now? I mean, it's just a way to, you know, make you feel that way. Make you feel really crappy. Yeah.

So you know what? Haley and I, we got the legging legs and we do two craps. I got big old legging legs. No, I only wear, I don't say I don't wear leggings to work.

Um, just because, you know, well, you can't. I can't really. Um, but I do like on work days. Like did your work days?