Dirty deals with demagogues: ANNE APPLEBAUM on democracy’s betrayers

Why do former democrats and intellectuals so often make the squalid journey from liberalism to hardline nationalism? Historian ANNE APPLEBAUM’s new book Twilight Of Democracy: The Failure Of Politics And The Parting Of Friends describes why once-liberal people make deals with devils of demagoguery. She talks to Nina Schick about the revenge of the second-raters, the lure of performative rage, how toxic nostalgia feeds authoritarianism and worse… and what we can do about it. “If you despair that your society is coming to an end, you will embrace desperate measures.”“When Trump tweets ‘LAW AND ORDER’ what he’s saying is, I can shut these people up.”“Brexit was a coup carried out by one part of the elite against another part of the elite.”“The defeat of Donald Trump is absolutely the most important thing that needs to happen for the world to move forward.”Presented by Nina Schick. Produced by Andrew Harrison. Assistant producer Jacob Archbold. Music by Kenny Dickinson. Audio production by Alex Rees. THE BUNKER is a Podmasters Production. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.