Do Better Pod Live - July 2025 - Interview with Jerrod Zertuche on Kind Extinction

In this episode, Dr. Megan and Joe interview Jerrod Zertuche about Kind Extinction and the upcoming webinar he is conducting on August 27th. Check it out to learn more! AI SUMMARY FROM FATHOM:Meeting PurposeLive recording of the Do Better Podcast featuring guest Jerrod Zertuche discussing kind extinction and his unique experience in behavior analysis.Key Takeaways - Kind extinction incorporates validation and co-regulation into behavioral interventions, avoiding traditional extinction bursts - Mental rehearsal and somatic awareness can help practitioners become more comfortable with empathetic, validating approaches - There's a need to shift ABA culture away from "enforcer" mentality toward more compassionate, connection-based practices - Jared will be conducting a webinar on kind extinction for Do Better Collective on August 27thIntroduction to Kind Extinction - Developed by Tarbox & Tarbox (2023) to incorporate validation of emotional experiences without reinforcing problem behaviors - Allows practitioners to provide emotional support during challenging moments, rather than ignoring clients - Shown to produce gradual behavior reduction without extinction bursts in initial researchCognitive Dissonance in Shifting ABA Practices - Many practitioners experience discomfort transitioning from "enforcer" role to more empathetic approaches - Mental rehearsal and somatic awareness exercises can help build comfort with new techniques - Shift requires vulnerability and relinquishing some control, which can feel uncomfortable initiallyBenefits of Kind Extinction - Improves social validity - feels better for clients, families, and practitioners - Promotes faster de-escalation of challenging behaviors - Aligns with modern neuroscience on co-regulation and emotional support - Cultivates safety and connection, enhancing learning potentialChallenges in ABA Culture Shift - Many practitioners conditioned to value data/procedures over empathy - Discomfort with vulnerability required for validation/empathy - Easier to fall back on traditional extinction despite limited evidence base - Need for patience and understanding during transition periodMental Rehearsal Training - Jared plans to incorporate guided meditations and mental rehearsal in upcoming webinar - Evidence shows mental practice improves skill acquisition (e.g. musicians, nurses) - Can help practitioners become more fluent in kind extinction techniques