Do red Muscle Cars go faster?

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening to wherever you are. You are listening to the All Talk Car Podcast, episode number two. We've got a debut run on co-host Roscoe Lettuce joining us tonight. How are we doing?

Paul Hallill is six tonight, so he couldn't make it. But our first guest is Harry Christian from Muscle Cars, sales as well as Muscle Car Radio. G'day Harry. How may I land?

Good to be here. I'm really good, really good. Harry Christian is the guru of Muscle Cars in Australia. It's a bit of a proper donut about guru, but I'll take it.

We'll go with guru. It's a bit of a stretch. That's okay, well, the guru can come see us there. There's a little bit of out there.

Harry, how did you get? I mean, to the niche of the Muscle Cars. And look, Muscle Cars, when I was thinking, if I wind right back, I was born Westie, right? Westie, when I was sitting, I was born in and around the Canterbury Bank scenario in a place called Build Build, right?

We didn't surf much. We didn't surf much. So what do you do? We would buy all the EH hold and HRs and the old XP thousands.

Back in the day you could buy for $100 or $50. We talked to them. We just had a lot of fun doing it. And that was how we passed the time and weren't doing that.

And of course, when we could, we go out of the racetrack and watch the now information of the likes of the rocks and the moffards and whatever, and you just grew to love these things. And so we were just kind of in the mind and sort of culminated with the establishment of a business in 2003, where I started selling Muscle Cars. So the X3 just goes back to the, I think it's more southwest, you know. It's sort of the inner citizen.

Like that was at the 70s, the 80s when we got started. So I'm 52 years away. Now I was, we're talking, we're talking 80s. Late 70s, early 80s.

I got my glasses from the mid 80s, you know, 16 to 9 months. Well, 16 years of age and 9 months was the time you could get your own plates. And of course, the day I became 16 to 9 months old. There we were at Chavora down there at the RTA, waiting in line because you couldn't wait any longer and of course you got your glasses off your wink.

So that was the era. And I was at this kind of the wrong time. I was right on the fuel crisis, but he was part of that. And his work, I guess, in our passion for cars is sort of awesome.

But my first car was a wagon. It was an EH-hole, 64 EH wagon. I remember it was burgundy with a white roof. And it had retrofitted, what would you believe it, 202 B-block in it?

Did it have special badges on its side? It had, it was a special. They had a 179 badge on it, but we had a 202 A-block in it. So it was a sleeper, mate.

That was the first car. Of course, $19. Literally. And you sold it for how much?

Not much more than that. But back in the day, you know, when I sold it a few years later, they weren't as popular. And I was like, well, I was like, oh, listen, I think, if you had some sort of basic idea. I had a mechanic back in it.

He had a basic idea. It wasn't like cars today. There was one big guy. It was a classic camera.

He was like, you had to have a feel for them. But what would go? I mean, they are simple cars. And what would go?

Generally, the clutch was used to all the burnouts and the car parts. I literally did. I literally did. I was actually a good teenager.

I was asking for it, you know. But look, I think what would go with them. As long as you got the point set, right? And you got the car between the fuel mixture correct.

There wasn't too much of it went wrong. They either worked with it. And I was like, well, I'm not going to trick with those old buses because the way they were built was to just regular all changes. And off you went to TLC and they went wrong with them to be honest.

So basically, when you started out, were you working in the game? I did my time as a makeup mechanic at all things. I first started as a mechanic for corners, which was great. Now, of course, I did my four or five years and I moved on.

But my love for mechanical things just got me into apprenticeship at corners. And we used to go to foreign orders back then. I should say to me, foreign orders were about taking all your parts into the corners engineering area and getting all the bits chromed and getting them cleaned. And you did it after hours.

Of course. It's had a lot of money doing it that way. So this is what we used to do. And I thought that it was terrific.

And one thing we had to do another was a bit more money. We got into then the Brock cars came along. That was the year of the early eighties, which would be going quite popular now, right? Big time.

So you know, you had that run of early seventies cars that are now through the status fee, the likes of the GTHOs and the menaras and stuff like that and the charges with the fortune. When I first started selling them when I set up, you know, muscle car sales, we were selling in exchange back in 2003. We were exchanging GTHOs for 50 to 60 grand. And now they're selling for anything up to a million dollars.

It's better than property by the right. So it's not going to continue forever. But the GTHO, there's an aura about that car. Whenever some of the things of muscle cars are Australian muscle cars, it's the GTHO phase three, the XYO.

That's like the halo car. Is it that good? Look, the GTHO was probably the pinnacle of Australian muscle cars, apart from the racing heritage and the success of having the racetrack. The car was pretty much waterproof.

It was basically a family sedan for the one of a better explanation than what they did was. They went in shoehorned F100 truck running during the day. They're basically a waterproof top load of gearbox, a waterproof nine inch diff. They got the basic 351 Cleveland engine and got the big heads on with the carber and all the Dofas, which were off the shelf out of the US, you know, the U.S.

division and Ford. And they built this thing called the GTHO. That was the third generation, the X-Y, the first generation was the X-W-N-A, which went from Windsor to Cleveland engine and accommodated in the Cleveland phase three. The mistake was the phase three, of course, with the whole X-Y range was the shaker.

On the one side, the other one. So you said there were lights and you'd be idling anything, and they'd be bubbling along at the top of the bonnet. And that's just what took everybody. It had appeal.

And then you had of course, Salim offered on the likes of Randy Stings and one of Bathurst. But then he met 300 of them, which is, and all 3000 of them still exist. Well, funny joke was when I was growing up, they met 300 and they had about 2000 in Marigold. But yeah, at the time I believe they were probably the world's fastest Ford was there.

They were a quick half. They were. And this was, so the only car that beat as far as Coron Marra was the then charger came along and the charger in the E49 was slightly faster. So that's where the E49 sort of got a bit of a puros, you know.

There was a big, the big end of town of Sadie's Benz back in the day, which would be, well, at the point it was the, I think it was the 6.9 liter equivalent. But you know, that wasn't an exotic car. It was a big guy. It was a big guy.

Yeah, compared to the Ford. It's probably the best of it today. But yeah, definitely the fastest Ford or sedan in its era was the, it was the Face Regi Kacho, Bookbrook. Yeah, 120 left of them.

Yeah. And then we're on Sunday, so on Sunday. Sorry, we're on Sunday, so on Monday. That was a big mantra in the 70s.

And even in the 80s when it came to Bathurst and things like that. So we said about the War of the G.H.A. and you mentioned the charges were a quick kind of time. Right.

You're the charger never one. Bathurst. And the charges you can pick up for the fraction of the G.H.A. Well, you say that.

Again, the charges, they have a bit of a cult following the monks that the Chrysler files were calling, you know, the Chrysler guys. The charges were divisional winds and you know, you go even earlier to the, the, the paces and the four barrel paces and the two barrel paces which were the predecessors to the charges. And they had divisional winds and they went to specific races. Charges were very big in New Zealand by the way and they won outright over there.

I mean, the G.H.A.A. just couldn't catch them over there. The charges were actually produced by kind of called Todd Motors. Once they produced, they were assembled in New Zealand, Australia, to send out the bits.

They would put them together over there and sold them as, as like all content. They were very successful. But the charger of course was a two doors. So it had that sexy peel with a two door, two door coop.

They were only a six-door, two six-five is compared to three fifty one cubic inch. Six-door versions of a eight. And as far as called Marlon's, you know, they beat these, they beat forward, right? But you've got to understand, I think it was quoted some of the, the forward works team of the day when they campaigned the phase three.

It had, sorry, the Chrysler team had the equivalent budget of Ford's brake budget. In other words, the money that's for Ford's, they're for its brake development, you know, is what Chrysler had for its entire racing development team. So really they were well punching above their weight. So for the most part, they were, they had an appeal.

You also pay three, four hundred grand for a really good, well, topping E-49. You don't know that. You still pay good money these days. So that's, E-49 is the pinnacle.

That's the equivalent of the phase three in the charge. That's as, as well as it got in the BH range. And with the success of the charger, all of that, all of that, all the way, ratio of the sixes. Is that, do you think we're holding the move to Toronto from the Monaro?

In the seven. Yeah. Or was it a marketing thing? Was it, was it was a Toronto better carbon Monaro?

Good question. So Monaro sort of kicked it all off, you know, in the early days when they came along in the sixty seven, sixty seven actually fought Camelot and did their thing with the XRG team, which was the first of the two eight nine sort of Mustang and then sixty seven you had the HK Monaro Camelot, the three twenty seven, and every year that up the anti. But the HDT, the whole and D the team back in the day and Harry Firth was charged with, you know, looking after all the development on behalf of the factory back teams. He went the other way when it came around about HT, HT, HT, and one, around that seventy two, seventy one, seventy two.

You know, we're going to move away from the big lumpy forwards and we're going to go to a slightly, a lot, a lot, a lot of car, with a very powerful shoe horn, six cylinder, with triple carb ridges, which was the XU1. And they had success in the rest of his feet. And of course that sort of developed for a few years and then they reverted back to almost a hybrid, you know, a lot, a still like vehicle in the form of the A9Xs and the all 34 Toronto's, which were still very light cars, but they then went to the V8, they shoe horned the five leader in them and they developed those cars. So you still had a very light car and but they still had a V8 on them.

So they weren't as as heavy and as brutal as the Ford cars, they were more refined a vehicle. And of course, a lot of people had great sets and young people have brought with these long curly hair and they're basically he then, I mean, do you remember during those days, I mean, I was sort of only six or something. You went for a week. So you were like, how are we doing?

It's like a lot of rocks. It's like a lot of rocks. We know rocks. Like that had a 480.

Four days down the mountain. It was just like 50 miles an hour. Was he popular then in the late 70s? Was the aura with the Peter Brock holding connection?

Or was he just the young guy that was pretty good? In the 70s he was a young guy coming through. He was a young guy coming through and he joined the team and Peter, you know, the first took him under his wing and you know, he had this natural ability. And natural ability turned into racers and the racers wings and the more racers wings of course became turning the legendary status.

And so it went. Brock had a thing where he could actually, he had this thing about being able to have a real sense of feel for a car. Whatever you're putting behind the wheel, it was really at one of them for the most part. So he could actually nurse the car around without carrying it too hard in order to get the result.

He could nurse the car around to a wing. And he's natural ability to be the sort of... A question is for a little bit of an ask. If Brock was a behind a falcon, would he have been just a successful?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's a natural. Look, in those days of course, in the way it worked and today it's all very controlled. We said it later is bad stuff and you know, you see the champions are controlled so much capacity.

You can now use these brakes and everything's controlled. And those days it was all out. The cars you drove to work in. Literally they would have them rigid with the plates and take the brakes off the wing.

And every year the company's up the ante so they would develop a little bit of a bit of a breaker. A bit of a engine, a bit of a gearbox and so it went. And a lot of it really came down to at the end of the day, driver ability and Brock was just one of those guys. And then of course you had Al Mothan and the likes, you know, the Colin Bonds of the world on the forward side of things.

The Colin Bonds was actually the holding camp. He was actually the chap and change. That's guys are equally as talented. So the right time with the right talent, did the trick.

And then moving to the 80s and the Commodore came out for the forward-stilt race Falcons of course. And then so muscle cars evolved. Which of the difference between the late CC 70s and say the 80s, your fuel injection technology. It's just a technology technology.

I mean the appeal of the early cars is still most revealed to this day. When you look at the brutality of those early cars, that's the thing is air conditioning. That was an option. That's the thing is power steering.

It was a muscle car because you literally grew muscles. And so it was something like that. You needed muscles in order to get these things around the track and maneuver them around the streets. They were definitely not lecturing vehicles.

So, and they were brutal. They just sounded like it was gutter-able. It was something almost caveman like when you turned that engine on, you had that big vagal walk in the background. And then of course you dropped the clutch and that was a business in it.

You know, and it smelled the whole thing was a... Oh, look at the muscle car. Oh, look at the my guy. He just walked.

Yeah, you look at them in. Prong. Yeah, that's the way it gets to the group. And then of course you had the stripes.

Or they all had go-fast color. The reds. The stripes. The stripes.

The reds. The reds. The reds. And the rear car.

Even faster. What about the super rooster? Well, he had super rooving. He had the GTS.

The grandsaurus. He had the super roo. They came on off and went. Yeah, and then of course you talk about the Brock cars in the 80s.

They became more refined. You know, they were refined. And then the light on got obvious braking. They got air conditioning.

And so it went. But the real muscle car we were for the sake of the better explanation is probably that late 60s through to early 70s. It was probably a window of about 5 to 6 years. But here in the US where the Trudihard...

if you're like Purus... ...we would consider the car from the radio muscle cars. The Brock Staff still has a pre-all these days on account of the big rock, the legend and the success he heads and the Brock cars are on one. But they still do to this.

You look at Mikey's 11, he loves his cars. They look at muscle cars and they go, they're the 60s and the 70s. They go, late late early 90s, cold or today was not a muscle car. So they definitely did do fine with it.

But then if you look at Fast forward 21st century, you've got A&G, you've got these massive power V8 cars coming out of Europe. And even the Hellcat and America are sort of relieving that period. But I'm in touch with the US, for all our listeners in the US, the US were more a coop type. They're muscle cars with all the barracuda, the plinths, the mustangs, the Chevy knives.

They have more coops. They won't really need four-door sedans. We're Australia has more love for the sedan. I mean, you've got the Monares, the Suspot and the Falcon Coops.

But that's the other unique thing I find. I mean, the Formula is the same up front, but at the back, in Australia, even to the state, I want to put the family in the car and go for that drive in the sports sedan if you want to use it a more modern term. I think America was more a coops. I think they don't regard four-door cars as muscle cars in the same way.

If you talk to an American purist, then you tell them we have four-door muscle cars out. Most revered muscle car in Australia is a four-door waffle car. It's not a coop, it's not a two-door waffle car. So for them, a muscle car, and as it's defined in their ticks, a muscle car is a two-door high-performance vehicle based on an upgraded factory car or factory-type motor vehicle.

So for them, the XY's and the Toronto four-doors, you simply wouldn't cut it for them. A muscle car is definitely a two-door. So the boss mustangs, the Camaros of the early days, they had the Nescar formula, of course, then they had the Trans Amformers, two different formulas, and the cars that were developed and have mitigated for those. So the car is very, very useful to a four-door high-performance car.

They talk to them in bottom-time. Yeah, they're the nine-tours, SHOs, and things like that. The Yamaha V8s and the like, what about a sleeper car? Is that a muscle car, do you think?

A sleeper car is a sleeper car. When you say a sleeper car, you talk about that. It's not a five-door standard. It looks standard.

I believe the body is something crazy. Look, the boring? I said that to be individual. You know, if the muscle car is all about the noise, the presence, the hand, the arm, the stripes, the arm out, the window, the main strip, and we're talking about Ross earlier, we're talking about the maroon-brinsing.

And the kids will all be packed in the car pack. One of them's lights up. It's scary. The all the crime on the bono.

The kids with the old point-and-range, you know, you go down there on the Saturday and they'll all be lined up. And it's all about the visual as much as it is the whole feel of it. The sleepers are all very well. And I do have a place where guys are going to be understated, but the real purest out there, as much noise as you can be.

That's bright as you can be. But yeah, so speaking of the GTHO and the Auro of that vehicle, a lot of these cars have hit million dollar prices in options and they're hovering over the half a million. Do you see that when the economy is good? Is there a cycle with these muscle cars?

Is the GTHO like the Ferrari GTO or Australia? Very good question. I think, and just for our listeners, we're not financial planners, please. I'm not talking about that as well.

In 2007, I sold in what was in the record transaction for 750 grand. We then went into the 2008 and 2009, you know, down to any of the GTHO's you can record. Castles sold and Cast continues to sell. The general populace, the run of the mill stuff, definitely was impacted.

But the hiring stuff that goes to the guys that are calling the 5% is, they still cast out people and they will always purchase those equals. So, you know, the way it works in an economy, you have the top 5%. And they're not a session per effect. They will buy that car.

And they'll buy these cars to take out on the Sunday with the family or are they just... A lot of them are hosting the sec in the garage and that's pretty much it. Cool question. So a lot of those collectors that we sell these cars to buy them because they couldn't afford them.

They grew up watching the restaurant on the track. They've now made a lot of money because they've built a lot of units and cashed in or they've, you know, equity made or whatever you want to call it. And of course what happens is they'll pay a million dollars or $500 or $600 grand for one of these cars, whatever they choose. And they'll put away and they'll collect it and they'll look at it.

They'll take it to a show over and down in and the boys will come around in the shit and they'll sit around and drink bees around it and off they go. But these are very generational and there are cars that will always transcend the generation. Cars like the GD-H-O. If you look at the older generation, the silver spur and the silver...

you know, the rose losses. You look at the D-type jags. The guys that sort these cars are all left this morning, will go away. But the cars will be with any value.

Because there are specific cars that will always be worth money like the GD-H-O, like the charger, like the hang on extra run up the round. I think it would be impacted by generations definitely. With prices are pretty high at the moment. A lot of cars have gone skyrocking, 90 lemons come to mind.

That creates a vacuum effect. So you find Falcon Coops have bolted in guys. Some of these cars worth the money, like the second T30 type cars. You see Falcon XD GLS, 351s or an X-Chaser, 2040, 50 grand.

If you're starting out, if you're starting out, if you're starting out, V-O, turbo, calories, if you're starting out as a collector, do you go, do you spit that sort of mind on those cars or not? It's all wealthy, right? And again, I know you've made any questions, but there's a cost of vacuum of six-stream. It does.

So when a GD-H-O goes from 90 grand to 200 to 300, when they hit 200, we thought the world's gone out. When they're within started exchanging for 400, we thought the world is definitely mad. Now we're exchanging to close to a million dollars, hands for about a million dollars. And we thought the world has definitely officially gone out.

It definitely has an effect. So we talked about the top 2% of the 5%. And you've got the 30%, then you've got the other 40% of the rest. So it's all about affordability.

If I can't afford the- It's a barrier. If I can't afford the $1 million car, then what do I do? Buy a replica. I buy something that's genuine, but not as valuable with the hope of it being worth something for.

I just buy it because I love it and I just want to drive it around. So that's where the values of these ESP Falcons are. The lesser rock comedos, the entry-level Holden comedos, and even, you know, you talk about Falcon G-O's. The XD Falcon G-O's and stuff like that, which will stay in the factory together and thanks a lot.

It's all about affordability and definitely there's been a slip-stream thing for sure. You're talking about cars. You know about these cars. What's in your stable?

Has anything slipped out of the stable that you shouldn't have? Is it something that came into the stable and you didn't feed enough? I should have kept it. Yeah.

You want to give her a story? No, I've been waiting for the cold sweat of night and I think the most of what I did. But because I've been trading for a minute, and I've pretty much owned hundreds and bought and sold hundreds of them, and they've had pretty much most examples of most of the models. I can't think that way, because I'm not that way inclined and I've never had been a real hoarder or collector.

I was going to say that the case of an enough room. But I might need it for two clicks or not enough money. It's cool. What would be your favourite 16th car?

For me, it's about the experience. I'm not into one of these guys. I'm not one of these guys. And there are other guys that exist.

One of my business partners has 40 cars sitting inside. That's constant, constant looking after watering feeding in the maintainer. That's the way he collects them. He has the capacity and the resources to do it.

I have a car. I'll drive it for six months and you two years. Move on. I don't have any regrets.

But there were definitely been cars that had kept them, would have been worth a lot more money. But then I had to pay those along the way. Is there a unicorn? Is there one that you haven't got?

Or is there something out there? There are definitely cars that are one of the ones that you will never come to. Most of them will never have a bridge. The one that comes to mind, even for those that have all the money, the one that is in the face for, GDHO, after the face.

That's up to a three. What I made was that I was a fish. So, officially only one was produced from factory with a standard GDHO. The skunk works, if you like, or the Ford Racing team made another Ford on.

I think it was a Ford. Is that a Ford? Is that a Ford? Is that a Ford?

Is that a Ford? Is that a Ford? Is that a Ford? A Ford?

A Ford? A Ford? A Ford? A Ford?

A Ford, a Ford? A Ford? A Ford? A Ford?

A Ford? A Ford? A Ford? A Ford?

A Ford? A Ford? What a Ford? It's been transverse now, or not more.

Now, I was cut out in front of the phone, about 3200 MaryHey's, George, and I was a big Howard. GTHO which was going to be the next of kin to the to the face three and it stopped of course the what they call the V8 RT charges that we're going to build without V8 and of course the GFO then was they made the one factory one which belongs to a guy so it still does a circuit in the green car It's an exact body shape and they then made a handful of others but they were never compliant and they had the face for GTH But they had a group of bits in it but the one pure car that unicorn the one is that green car belongs to we call it the dentist Really nice guy, a really nice guy but I'm a person he's a nice chap and it's not that your office has he? I mean he could have sold the car 100 times over and the people lining up for him it's not about the money He's like yeah I think for him we run that he'll pass it on to to the next to the next generation So he's aim someone whatever he's going to do So should I look you up for the Brock Falcon? Or the Brock Falcon?

Well they actually take him and I remember to pick him and I said he just said he just said he's a super car No more marketing gimmicks mate, if you couldn't afford it, if you couldn't afford it through Brock you wouldn't want the gym now Do you ever want to ask you? You're beating the game for decades you know these cars Can you spot a fake? Yeah. When I say fake, we know this and I'll talk about fake and replicas and trivia cars.

I'm talking about more than someone purported to sell and there's been cases where they've sold a GTHA for 300 gram and it wasn't how it was. Those fakes. I've talked about fraudsters. Yes.

Or can you spot them? Yeah, look, you can go through them. There are many things. There are chassis numbers.

There are actual, you know, the difference between a GT-HO body and a standard body. I mean, there are some 100 plus differences that if you don't know, they're very, very subtle between a normal Falcon and a GT-HO modified body, in phase three. So you've got to go through that and understand all that. Then there's a compliance blights and there's the actual stamped chassis numbers.

And so much so now that they become so expensive, when people go through the process, they actually go through and have shock towers, X-rayed, shock towers where really chassis numbers spot have an X-rayed to see whether they've been manipulated or taken off. Because and in some very famous cases, they've been found out through X-raying because they already bring the defonpanes, a million dollars for a car. I want to make sure that's the right thing. That's why cars that have the right providence, that have the right log books and known history are worth more than a car that you know, you're going to do.

You've got to do it. You've got to do it. You've got to do it. You've got to do it.

Well, no, no, no. Someone's cab back in there. Yeah, they're all cars. It's taxi.

It's taxi. It's taxi from America. Well, I forget, one of my mates used to call bathers, the taxi race. But that's the up change.

Moving on to it, then you've got the ones that are fake. Then they call them replicas, but they call them tribute cars. Do they have a place? Absolutely.

Trippie cars are great. Don't forget, you know, going back to the other thing. These cars are worth nothing in the same race. They were on a little car.

No, we're not going to give you spare round with them. They said, dodge them up and do what have you. Say they're worth nothing. Even the facer.

Yeah, I mean, facer is always worth money, but really not to the extent that we've seen. Now, facer is never back in back. My uncle got into car. My parents went into car with my uncle.

He was in the race's meeting. He had a facer. He tells the story about swapping it out for one. I think it was a feeling that had a digital back.

Oh, yeah. He swapped it with the mate. To this day, the mason still has the facer. Yeah.

And it's this conversation that every time he has the facer, he's a place. And on a block. I know it appeared. Times.

So in 1985, if you looked at these early seventies, Falcons, is it me now looking at the classifieds for a VZ Commodore? With 180,000 clicks on it for two rounds? Yeah. That era of car is very different.

The cars that came through the seventies and early sixties, the cars are actually race. That's the difference. And that's why I don't believe modern classic will have a place. A very limited walk-in-show Commodore that we saw in the windhole and shut shop.

They're very limited supercharged, you know, Ford XR rates and stuff. They will always have a place always worth something. They're very limited runs of the Cobra cars that they brought out a few years back. Yeah.

Yeah. So those cars always worth something. But the reason that the seventies cars are so revealing is because what you drive on the street and what exists today in the form of restore and restore if you're lucky was actually right on the track. No.

It wasn't the case. They have a modified thing. It's a body shot. The rest of it is all being modified to a formula.

Back in the day though, you literally drive your Monaro out into a driveway, two-bath, and race or to worry about it. That's why they'll do it. They'll do it. So back to tributes.

I mean it's a place for them. Tributes are great because you can't afford the room coin. And these race cars too, by the way, the genuine ones, they are the ones that actually race back in the day with a small fortune. We've just seen the 83 Brock Commodore change hands for $2 million while the auction houses in recent times.

So they were the fortune. So you can't afford the race car. Yeah. And other Commodore's that collectible, that good a car.

Or is it because of the unfortunate event of Peter Brock, you know, in West 10 years ago today? These cars come past and I mean I know those cars definitely value after hearing, you know, when he said it in San Paso, they're not sure. But I think we're cars. There's definitely just associated with it.

But they were always in valuable cars. They weren't always in valuable cars. They were always limited run cars. And they were always through race spec built cars from factory.

They were the 80s cars. Don't forget, fall back to sleep in the 80s. They've been the most prestigious race ever. Yeah, so Brock used to, well they had the ESPs and went, but they weren't real hard core race cars like the Brock cars.

So Brock would go to Holman by standing by a standard Holman Commodore from them. He'd take it into the HD2 works and they outward pop this high performance in equal. So they were always worth money and they were always appreciating. He was the actress of the movie.

And he came up with the Walkings or stuff. But they always had their place. They were always valuable. And the best thing about that era, which is, and it's generational.

Because the kids are grabbing that Brock era. You and I are grabbing in the 70s and early 80s. The kids are grabbing the 80s and 90s. The Brock keeps a few like now in their late 30s and 40s.

Those kids there by this time had realized the value of the classic. And most of these cars are preserved in very low miles. Whereas now they're the alfalfans. They're driving them and enjoyed it.

Exactly. There are exceptions of course. I'm very good on restored cars. We've got people.

We've got Bronz thing at the moment, HD. Let's go 50,000 or even miles. You can see this thing. Definitely the rule of the Brock cars.

And then we're touching on HD2. They sort of come back a couple of years ago and they brought out some limited edition VE's with retro kits on them with the blue meany and the white one of them with bigger wheels. Yeah. Look, HDT has changed hands.

The company has changed since leaving Brock and his crew went to one organisation and the police he brother zoned it and then put it champ in most recently who was producing these cars and we were talking about the later model ones. They never had the aura and the collectability of the only Brock cars. Don't forget the Brock cars were designed, overseen and to the spec of the light created Brock and his crew. Yeah.

What did the polarizer? Was it a polarizer? One of my favourites. That was polarising in the end.

It was polarising in the end. The polarizer was a, he got involved and the polarizer was supposed to enhance the electrical current flow, basically a box of crystals that sat in the catalogue tray. That was the inside the plenum chamber of the vehicle. Look, it's still got a, it's a lot of money.

I've owned a tour and let me tell you, they made 173 of the 500 cars reduced, had the polarizer and they stopped making it and that was the year we had the fallout and they were walking shore in and fishing with the vehicle. That was a big blue. So 87 was about, yeah, sort of late 80s was about the time. It didn't Brock try to go out on his own.

He tried with the finance thing. He always had HDT but by that time the whole thing, and then of course refused to sell him cars and sell him through the old deal of Z and then that went up by the way. And Holden also felt, to be honest, that they were missing out because the hard performance cars that were being sold out of Holden dealers were all Brock's cars and he was getting the larger of a profit and Holden's a more missing out. So they employed walking shore producer, walking shore and off that way.

So do you think there's a conspiracy theory behind that? Look, I think if Brock, he had, if Brock, he had, he'd probably, he'd probably, he'd probably come around and played ball a little bit. They could have worked it out. He had pulling power but Brock wanted to do his own thing as he always wanted to do.

Is he a racer before marketing? Oh yeah, Brock, he was a businesswoman before he was everything. Brock was a racer first of almost ender and the best out of mine. I'm off at my ever.

I'm off at my ever. I'm off at my ever. But now he was first of almost a racer. And it's quite hard.

Now it's because I'm a bit of a locker. And then he went to Ford and we had the, I brought up earlier the Brock Falcon and then, it was a body two. That was a body two. That was a, I think the suspension.

There was a bit of a feeling. I think it was a bit of a, it was Ford trying to cash you on the name but, you know, when you have a bit of a tiff with, with one of your partners, one of your, when you're going to to have a tiff and you're reacting by finding someone else to make the other one jealous and so when it was a bit of a love stick, I think that was a bit of a love stick. So anything in the performance stock will always be of some value. Cast a date that are up and coming.

You know, you look at the WB States and some of those sleeper statesmen, you know, the HJ mags, the HX, the next. You can survive for about 20, 30 grand decent car. I think they'll increase the value. The early feelings, they've gone through the roof, you know, like you said, the vacuum effect of the XY.

Anything valiant to be honest with. Valiance were like, they were the chariots, right? So who wanted a value? But now Valiance made a big dollars for a good value.

So I think anything of a bygone era that is true to its original form and is affordable, he's a formula. He might keep my mind. He might get a model of that particular model. They all seem to have the question.

So not the cars, it's some of that. Well, the Model 5T. Yeah. Yeah.

I like them too. I like them. OK, see what happens with those is they're an expression of their own. So if you build that modified car, and the next one comes along and has, well, they might not like it, so they won't pay what you have existed.

They don't have it, right? Yeah. But a numbers car that is true to which original. Will always be a numbers.

Of course. I'll just throw that. Yeah. I mean a lot of shakers.

And that's just down there and it's, yeah, it's a, yeah. trying to get out there, one time I've been there a couple of years ago, it was quite funny and quite interesting. But you think Ross, you've been stalling the muscle can you? I've been stalling the muscle can you?

I do want to ask though, hold completely coming out of the market in Australia. Are we going to say those cars? I mean, we talked about Monera before, they finished the Monera, I'm not sure what yours and they're not back. But we're going to say stuff that they've produced in the last two or three years, because it's the end of the line and it's because we're going to say those, get to that face three stage.

Or do you think, or I don't know if they're going to get to the face three stage, but certainly with something and already people are holding back some of the last additions of the VGB, the big GDS, really walk and join handscars. And they're worth all the money selling them more as second hand cars with zero kilometres than they're less priced, because of their limited numbers. How do you reckon not? Install some of their cars already with the plastic still on there?

I've got a friend who's a complete board nut and he's just gone out and bought three or four, couldn't afford it, but he's gone and bought three or four of the last line, high performance, just put them in the shape of the line. That's something I want to have for later on. But I suppose that's added in 20 year olds, so you're also now going, okay, what is, can they see what we're doing? Yeah, the other end, these guys are paying a million dollars in there.

40s, 50s and 60s, I want to be the guy selling that car. Look, I don't know if the 20 year olds are today going to the whole, the current ages of VGB and the same light all over there, all over the same status that the 55 or 60 year olds give the current phase three. I don't know if that's going to happen. Look, there's a lot of choice.

There's a lot of choice. There's choice. There's, who races GDS around the track in its current form? I always go back to that.

I'm a pretty much a very based, based, purest. If it raced, and it won, in that format, it's worth something. A GDS in its current form today has got a badge. It's limited in numbers, but you've never seen one on the track.

They don't race. The last race was a voxel built, a voxel built, nail combed with a hatchet and the machine horned with a new name. For me, I'm a bit of old school, I don't know if they can have the same bagel. In your day in the sales side of things, have you seen some really good cars and you just shook your head because the owner put a roof rack at the time of the car?

I think I would have. I think you said, I'm a bit of a horror story. I mean, the horror story is my childhood, right? I had a batheic she won, and LJ took on.

When you rip the standard interior out of it, we put the stupid rip back in the day, you put a car in the city. They didn't call it rip for a car in the city. They didn't call it rip for a car in the city. They didn't call it rip for a car in the city.

And we fled the guards. We actually ripped the guards. We lit the guards out. We took the standard wheels and put the big fat in it.

That's a car I buy that with the matching car. Yeah, but back in day. With the triple S use off this car and put the wheels off. We thought, I think these were the idiots.

Yes, many a time. We cut holes and put those pop-up roofs in them because we thought that was pretty cool. The movie with the driving, right? I mean, they said it's completely gone.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember the ladies are cutting charges with it. They make them into convert a lot.

They're the boat charges. They're not the bathers charges. They made it with some of the stuff. Those boats were cutting them into convertibles.

Yeah, they made it. I'm modifying it. I'm modifying it. I'm profiling it.

I'm modifying it. He's violating it. He's violating it. He's reviewing it.

He took the engine out. What do you really bring in it? He's panel man. This is what he did.

I mean, that's what he did. He's using these as a course. Ukraine, but that's what happened. What have you put on your side, Ross?

Tell you. And that's it. You cannot run a car without touching. It's sometimes a goes straight from the dealer, straight to the workshop and gets the suspension or the exhaust and it doesn't matter what it is.

You're a captain, yeah. You can't help yourself. You're always getting into this next car. I'm not modifying it.

If anyone knows me, my car is that last more than six months. Not because I brought the car. Because it's just kind of good. Okay, what's next?

If it's suspension, if it's engines, do whatever I can. But, you know, I'll come back on some of the cars on the water. Maybe I shouldn't have done that. I should not have done that.

If it's not for the money that I can do it. Maybe. Maybe it would have been okay if I kind of left it as it was. I say that every time this car is not being one of them even the daily drive that I've got now I was talking about before I had to order coilovers from Germany for it.

Yeah, it's a family there A whole lot of wholesome I don't believe in warranty bills got off I'm trending like style milk you only did drink in there any kind of I mean we do like the extended warranty in my head. I always think I should get the extended warranty But no the middle I drive out of the dealership. I'm gonna lose the one. Yeah, right I'm gonna get a tune or it's gonna get There's no warranty left on the suspension of the brakes But what you should have your daily driver and they just have your horse for the weekend It's what a lot of these guys do all these guys get around and you know they drive their carols They drive their standard whatever they have they have They have multi-passed their cameras all their money and then on the weekend they have their toy They have their GT with a have their minority child and they take it with that So that's one way to sort of overcome the bug the good thing about these all muscle cars too if you modify and understand You're generally not gonna lose too much money.

It's not you know, they're an appreciating call of an asset call of a collectible Whatever you want and and you should drive these all vehicles. You can't just I mean we talk to my from business like pain You hang up in the wall and they might look in and go so hard But with vehicles that they are sort of living things you need to start them the valves the rubbers that we need They need to get out there and whatever some good appreciation of old cars drive them I mean, I've eventually at the end of the day if you're gonna get a show coin and I'll drive some of the case Like well, good like you're very paint top dollar for you. You need buy from brand new especially if you're awesome But they should go out they should get driven and I think we've got that in Australia I mean, I know we've got people beach and where those munchways and those sort of classic shows in the US you cannot you want to trophy You have to drive your vehicle Yeah, what about the hang on thing you guys appreciate that guys that it's all it's all about hanging looking at right the guys The purists who would like to see with the cars and it's about driving the noise the smell all the way Right, right, right, so You go ahead and some of those coffee runs in the early hours of the morning I wish you got there in his 200, 300 cars and cars and cars and what are you driving? What have you got here today?

You look at that and that's kind of in Totally totally agree it's all about the experience and I reckon driving on the wheel's off Oh my God, muscle car Yeah, muscle car, muscle car, muscle car, muscle car, muscle car, muscle car, muscle car, muscle car, muscle car, muscle car, muscle car, muscle car And you look after you, look after you, look after you, look after you, look after you, look after you, look after your car, look after you. Just give me something that's not matching that, because I'm really cool Car clubs, do you join clubs, and other way they get into classic cars? Should you join a club and then ask, is it better to ask around members they may want to sell? Have you had the seats to stay?

Always be a good way to go. Are you a member of many of them all? I've been through the fourth clubs. The holding clubs of clubs have been a member of most of the clubs over the years Currently there are generic clubs that you know deal with generic If you're like enthusiasts that they're not fast about you know, brand, and the purist holding guys or purist for guys the New South Wales Muscle Car Association, run by a couple of boys actually down from Wungong.

Really, really a bunch of guys have got some people up here in Sydney as well. And they're a good bunch, they don't care what they've got a hole in their eyes. One of them's a muscle car as well, even if it's a modified car, you're out there having fun, we get a run on the weekend, we gotta get our fire shop off the road and go on a kilometer run and have a bit of a squirt with the family and come back. It's quite sure.

All the other columners in distance. Yeah, just, yeah, yeah. It's not going to be a lot of power. Officer, and then of course, there's the whole thing about advice.

If you're looking for something, you've got guys in there with decades of experience. And I've not been to a club with it, you get the cage on with the most part of it. Very, very, very often. Well, what's going to think?

Harry, do you want to plug anything? Oh, look, I'm really excited for you. I'm really excited for you. You're my first guest.

You're my first guest. I hope it all goes well. We're on iTunes, like us and on Facebook. It's all talk, car podcast, on Facebook and Instagram and I'll tell you a first story with liking on Facebook.

My dad's on Facebook. Yes. There was a running joke, and I will tell you for a couple of years. He's feeling out now, but instead of clicking like, he used to type like.

Yeah. And I'll tell him. I kept the guy because it was quite funny. So yeah, that was my dad.

And he wanted to be my friend on Facebook. He's my dad. There's no button in Greek Facebook. He's a part of the way.

They have a lot of the way we communicate. My mother calls in the bookface. He says, like, get on the bookface. And he says, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.