This week's guest is Kathleen Benning, who currently resides in Jaleela Switzerland. Originally hailed from Hungary, Kathleen grew up in the picturesque region of Transylvania. We talked with Kathleen about how she got her start in hospitality industry when she landed her first job at a bar, earned some extra cash while still in school. Kathleen soon fell in love with the bar industry and cocktails and spirits.
Kathleen excelled at her chosen profession and quickly rose to the ranks of the bartending world after making a neighbor herself as the bar manager of the Gibson Bar in London, England. Kathleen has won numerous awards in Europe and has currently organized a bar manager of the newly opened Live Bar M3 Group in Geneva, Switzerland. Enjoy the show. Alright, we are finally back with another episode of the industry podcast after a brief hiatus.
My name is Kip, this is Dan. That's me. What's happening, man? Just enjoying the summer.
Yeah. That kind of stuff. Well, I guess we were technically on last week, but it feels like this is the first one we've done in person for a while because Dan got the rona. Yeah, I decided to get a nice solid boat of COVID just to see what it was all about.
Yeah. Gotta say it and enjoy it. I felt like you were missing out on something. Yeah, I missed out on that.
Actually, it's a couple of weeks to get rid of. Yeah. And we don't, not so well. First in person podcast since I was in New Orleans, you were in Amsterdam and then you got COVID.
Yeah. Yeah. I thought I'd, you know, finish off the rest of August, but I'd be able to do much better than fun. Perfect.
Yes. A lot of shit going on. Well, we have a great guest that's always kind of lean. Benet is going to be joining us in just a second.
Before we get to that, a few things to talk about. Let's start by saying that the industry podcast is supported by the case for wine. Your local agent for the southwestern Ontario region is Rick Berencelli. Rick Lipsenwater Loon is happy to take care of all of your wine needs, whether you are a wine buyer, food and beverage manager, Somelier or private individual.
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We have DJ Nana doing a monthly the last Saturday of every month. You'll want to check that out. You should also check out DJ Nana's music on SoundCloud and Spotify. How does Bligobot find information about Babylon Sisters Bar?
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That's at Sugar Run Bar on Instagram. You want to follow us there to get the password and to also see what's going on. The other thing we should mention is as dedicated as we are to this show, we try and get one to you every week, there might be some hiccups in the situation as Dan's getting very busy at work and it might be... Learn something's going on with you as well.
Yes, you might be moving to Western Europe. I don't know what's happening there. Also, yes, I am currently in the process of running for the mayor of the city of Waterloo. That's going to take some time up.
I'm going to try and not let it affect these podcasts. But if you live in the city of Waterloo, you should come out and vote October 22nd, his voting date for mayor of Waterloo. Do I get that wrong? I think.
October 24th. It's a Monday. I should probably figure that out. October 24th.
But there's early voting as well. I know why it says August 22nd. That's why I got it next to August 22nd. October 24th.
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And I think that that's enough talking about us. And maybe we should talk about our guest, Kathleen. How are you? Hi guys.
I'm great. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for doing this. So, Kathleen is joining us from Geneva.
And it's about midnight her time right now when we're recording. So, we thank her for hanging out and sticking with us and doing a late recording. Thanks very much for coming on the show. We definitely appreciate it.
Thank you so much for inviting me. Actually, I'm not in Geneva. I just arrived to Transylvania. So, it's one hour later.
Oh, okay. So, and you're a recently from Transylvania, correct? Yes, exactly. That's right.
Go up. Right. So, talk to, I don't know anything about Transylvania except for the vampires. So, tell us a little bit about the area that you grew up in and how you got started in the service industry.
Well, actually, it's a very tiny village in the mountain region, in the carpets and mountains, just like 72 meters from drug locusts. So, what's out guys? And then I ended up in the service industry because I'm a vampire. And I have to work in the night.
That's right. And it does suck your soul. Yeah, definitely. Well, I grew up here and putting the joke aside.
I moved to the city. The second biggest city in Romania, Koglucz. And I was studying there. And as any student, I was just looking for like a side job and just to get some extra cash.
And I just fell in love with the bar, varsity and cocktails and the bartender in general. So, yeah. And like were your first jobs in Transylvania? Yes, exactly.
I started working in Koglucz. I didn't actually speak Romanian at the time because I'm from a Hungarian region and I'm nationally, my national team is also Hungarian. So it wasn't very hard to get any job. And I ended up working in a bar just like cleaning tables, ashtrays, the time you could smoke inside.
So that was my own duty pretty much. Right. And so when you first broke in, what sort of jobs were you doing? Did you start serving right away?
Or were you doing like bar packing? So I was helping a lot behind the bar and learning the language. But in like three, four months, I was actually already able to make some like basic dreams. And one time a bartender asked me to cover him in the morning shift, which was like an easy shift.
And it was a Friday night and he never showed up again. So I just stopped the eyes of our... That's perfect. So that was like my trial day basically that showed me the water and I'm going to learn to swim.
Yeah, well I think it was what Alan said, 90% of success was just showing up. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay, so you were working in a bunch of bars in that area and then like what prompted your move to go to Switzerland?
Well, actually I was super curious and I always wanted to try new things and in Transylvania you get a very limited selection of spirits, beater or anything or fruits. Especially I grew up in the mountain region. We were just growing everything ourselves. So I actually didn't even know a lot of normal things that I know now.
I haven't seen ginger in my life or bananas. I just had like when I was at 14 the first time. So I just got curious and I wanted to travel a bit more. And first I actually moved to London and work there and then I moved to Geneva just to explore more the world.
Right. Were you specifically attracted to like the sort of like what you thought the difference in the bar industry might be in like Geneva or Switzerland compared to Romania or was it just like oh I just want to see different parts of Europe? It was kind of both but also like when I moved from London to Geneva like I was a little bit getting tired of like a big city life especially I grew up in a tiny village and I was always close to nature. So I guess Geneva was very like this decision was very influenced by like how beautiful it is and you have nature right next to you a lot of farms, local farms, fantastic produce and it just felt more closer to, more close to my hometown and just imagine myself better there.
But the bar is definitely different and compared to Romania it's almost the same level but compared to London is like back in time like 50 years at least. Right. So let's talk a little bit about your time in London. Like that's a pretty big move going from Transylvania to London where London is like sort of the birthplace of craft cocktailing like where everyone all over the world learned how to do it properly right.
So that's and you were at that Gibson's? Yes. Yes. So that's like a massive very famous craft cocktail bar.
Like worldwide and with a lot of history too. So talk to us a little bit about that move how you made it from Transylvania to start working in a place like that. Yeah. Well, yes, it was a very, very bold move.
I actually met Marianne's owner before and he offered me a job and I mean he offered me a job. He just told me like, yeah, I like part of this like you. So if you ever think about moving to London, I got a job for you. And then I guess I just decided to move there and try it and I was super excited to see how the London scene is.
Obviously I knew a lot about it but I never had the chance to travel there. So I was like super curious and I just moved there, packed everything in a suitcase and I didn't know what's my salary where I'm going to leave, what I'm going to do exactly. I just moved to London to work in the Gibson bar and the second day we opened the bar basically I was already at work. Right.
It was again, swimming, learning to stream. Just like that. And so that's got to be a big eye opener going from like you said, like in Romania, they don't even have a lot of the different spirits and bidders and what have you. So now you're just like swimming in like you said in the deep end like jumping right in.
Talk to us a little bit about your learning curve for moving to a bar like that and like how fast you had to catch up. Well, there was actually no time to learn much because we've been just like working and like yeah, that's what I'm going to do and that's why we do it. This is what we got. So obviously I researched a lot before and I've been working already for 10 years in bars and I knew a lot of spirits from like online media and a lot of ingredients from the online media.
So I've been like a walking Wikipedia already before but I never had the chance to try a lot of things. So I was like, yeah, I know that sprits all right. So let's see how it tastes and it was just like quick learning and one week I found myself responsible for all the shopping, all the prep and it was like huge because we had almost like 40, 45 drinks on a menu. Everything was homemade, very complex garnishes that were homemade also.
So it was like a very quick learning and just grinding fruits and three months later I was already making drinks and eventually become the bar manager super quickly. So it was everything just super quick but I always say a one week in London, one week at work is like almost like three months in Romania. So it seems like this. Yeah.
So that's like Crash Course Learning now is that would you recommend that to people or do you think it's like it takes a certain kind of person to like kind of get that Crash Course that quickly? Well, I definitely think not everyone could handle it. I could also see that because we were sometimes like looking for stuff and we had great bartenders coming in and they just couldn't handle it. They just quit in one week.
Some people say a little bit like longer, three weeks but they just quit. They were not able to catch up because it was so complex and the level is very, very high in the bar. Yeah. So is that sort of where you feel like you got your feet wet and like obviously a very Crash Course but like that's where you really started to gain the craft of Craft Hotel bartending?
I can see myself, like looking back, I can see myself learning certain things, especially details, like temperature or like very like ice and things that I always thought they are important but there I learned actually they are even more important than I think. I also understood that and learned that many, many simple brings like a martini could be messed up in so many ways even though it has just two ingredients but mostly I learned a lot about hospitality. So it's not even learning. I said I learned a lot, I studied a lot before.
It was more like learning like flavors or also my senses to open up even more and know what's happening not just behind the bar but in all the room and like from the temperature to the guest to enter the door to control absolutely everything and that's what I learned actually there to just not think as a bartender. I think as like someone who takes care of everyone who is in that room and just are like I am responsible for them as well and the vibes as well so I can't be just stirring and not talking and making drinks quietly. I really need to entertain people and make sure they get like the best service and the right drinks and make some jokes and make some feel good and I think that's what I learned in London compared to Romania. Right and I'm glad you brought that up because we've had a few conversations about this exact topic recently on the show where it's like I think sometimes people can get their so focused on like whatever their skill is whether it's like flare bartending or craft cocktailing or whatever it is and forget that really the job at the end of the day is giving the guests an amazing experience.
Exactly. I agree with you and I have to say I was also one of those bartenders back in the days who just focused more about the perfect drink and the right drink for the right person but obviously I always took care of the people sitting in front but it's just more to be a bartender is just more than the person right in front of you. It's like everything you just need to be everywhere and I learned that maybe you make a less good drink but if you just control the ambience and everything right the people still would choose your bar compared to any bar like top bar who is making the best drinks but maybe they are not very hospitable. Yeah.
It's like and I think that like especially during the pandemic when there was so much Instagram bartending right because people can be out in bars that we almost got our heads up our own asses a little bit about like what we could do making drinks and garnishes and all this shit and then at the end of the day it still comes back to like like we were just talking about like the guests have an unbelievable experience and that's whether you're just pouring beer off a tap or whether you're making the most delicious cocktail in the world like that's still the most important part of the job. Definitely. I agree more with you. Yeah.
I just mentioned as a side there are only a few more weeks left of barbecue season in here in in Canada where we're from so what should you be drinking? I don't think it's a nice wine to do with this. I think so. Rick Berencellia the case for wine has many options whether whatever the budget he can help with modesty price cavity so you know working in a wire from California if that's your jam or heavy hitting reds from Barolo that's my jam produced by Bobi or Luciano Santorone whatever the event whatever the meal call Rick and say $25 off your first case just mentioned that you've heard about it here on the industry podcast and Rick's going to take care of you.
That's Rick Berencellia Rick at the case for wine.com. So getting back to you Kelly let's talk about you. You had this like sort of crash course in craft cocktailing and working in a crazy busy bar with so many drinks on the menu then like you say you end up moving to Geneva for just like a lifestyle choice and now you're working in bars in Geneva and like you say it's almost like moving back in time they're a little bit behind London for obvious reasons so talk a little bit about that like you kind of must have been a bit of a big deal. Well actually first I felt super calm like everything happens slower like what could happen in two days in London they take two weeks so everyone is like taking their breaks midday then just coming back in one hour they just had dinner a lunch a story and maybe one big drink that's like not very normal like compared to London where everyone is just like grinding running everything happens so quick and so it was definitely a shock but also like the bar scene like there are lots of great partners none of them is Swiss actually.
Oh really? Yeah. No one is Swiss I haven't met once with Spartan during five years. That's interesting.
That's interesting to me too because I've been to Switzerland and why was just shocked by and a lot of this has to do with because it's a social democracy there and there's like very high taxes but you get free education you get free healthcare etc etc great community living but as a result it's kind of expensive to go out and eat and drink. Yeah it's super expensive it's definitely expensive as everything else in Switzerland but I think it has more to do with the like the hospitality industry and the agriculture industry are the two lowest states domains in Switzerland so obviously the Swiss people who got a perfect a wonderful education they just choose better jobs like better paying jobs and they're not gonna just mix drinks in the bar or stir drinks in the bar when they can get a double salary maybe in the bank. Right so I started what I mean just because you've bartended in like three very different areas of the world even though it's all Europe it's still like I mean the difference between Romania and Great Britain and then Switzerland like how would you describe the difference in the kind of guests you're getting at these bars? That's a good question.
Well Romania is very different because here bars open actually in the morning and you start with coffee service fresh lemonade special season then just improves and in the evening you mix drinks you pour beers wine and actually it just has a great vibe the bars have always wonderful design the bar community is very very strong and and they are very very passionate so they are happy to even pay for seminars just to be able to learn from someone abroad they are like really really cool guys and London scene is super intense and the people are more like either coming for just a quick gin and tonic and the in the paleo or lager beer or they just want to experiment try experimenter cocktails most of them actually bottomless from from around the world so if you work in London chances are high that maybe 70 percent of your guests are actually especially if you are from over being about 70 percent of your guests are industry so they are very different guests they want different type of drinks the beer there is no for sure they're gonna order it it's very different and people like to drink a lot in London I I thought it remained a people like to party and drink a lot but moving to London was very shocking because then you could see ladies coming in sitting at the bar talking very British English and they're very polite and then suddenly I end up eating falling down the chair it was very funny they're dancing and like they think they're weird at one point in London and then you go home with the night bus and then the ladies are like it's freezing cold outside and you're in your jacket and like oh I just can't wait to get home and then you see a lady popping on the bus choosing the in the hand just a small top and a short skirt and they are just fine well and part of that too is like if you're working at like a high end cocktail bar in London well the people are coming there coming there to drink the cocktails right like they're not coming there for a beer or a glass of wine and cocktails tend to be like two three ounces of liquor in the right so that's got to be part of it as well I do want to talk a little bit about your achievements in the bar industry are quite impressive like talk to me a little bit about how you get named false F magazines bar woman of the year that's the 2019 that's what that seems like a big deal yeah well it was a big deal for me because I just made a big step back and I just moved to Geneva from London where I visited the bars and not the same at the same level and I just we just opened a new bar I just did a competition and not because I wanted to win but I just wanted to meet people know what the level of the bars and know what's happening in Switzerland and I'm an oldie person so I obviously did my homework and in the end I think I got lucky as well in the same time because you also need a bit of luck no and I just won the competition and things got like escalated from there because a lot of things happened to me and like a lot of opportunities were just knocking on my door and suddenly I just got a lot of attention from journalists from the industry and a lot of people from like Germany, Austria and also Switzerland like started to connect with me and as I said it was more the competition was more for meeting people and connecting with people so I just definitely used this and I guess people just noticed what I'm doing and I'm not like full of myself and they just nominated me to different awards and I believe that's why it happened not sure well I'm gonna just list them now if you don't mind but like I'm not trying to embarrass you but like we just mentioned the false that magazine you also have mixed-ology bar awards shortlisted in the top four bar tenders in 2019 is it brift bar best mixologist award 2018 world-class bartender of the year and global finalists in switzerland 2018 and winner of the international team competition I'm gonna mangle that word but bar fights yes yes bar fights bar fights so what what are bar fights so it was actually a competition for teams like people from different bars were competing against each other on national level and then on the international level and then I was part of the remaining team where we just represented remaining in the international finals and then just we just won there so the competition though and like I mean I'm not like I have no clue how old you are but I'm looking at you right now you're not that old so like to have all these sort of accomplishments at such a young age like it's pretty impressive so part of obviously part of the game now in bartending is sort of getting yourself out there but it sounds almost like this sort of happened to you just based on your own merit you went to competition and things started moving very quickly have you found that social media presence makes a big deal has made a big deal in your career or not so much not so much because I actually started using social media just since I'm in Geneva I was not very active before and I actually didn't use ever in my instagram the time I was in in the kitchen for example I was never posting almost anything so I was not really using that spotlight you know I was more focused on work and to be honest I it's nice to be acknowledged it's nice to win a competition but I don't really think someone is a great bartender because it's won an award or won a competition so I don't really believe in this so I'm more like you are a great bartender if you make good dreams you're good to the people but don't be full of yourself I really hate people who are just super full of themselves they forgot where they're coming from so that's why I just tried to keep it like lucky and just be myself and it is what it is you know yeah yeah let's take a little time out here Dan are you a Somalia or a wine bar? No I wish I could be though yeah well you buy wine are you looking for new wines to build your wine list? I always am okay well then looking further than Rick at the case for wine Rick and after several high volume wines there are the backbone into any wine list such as you know Grigio, Prosecco, Sauvignon, Blonde, Pinot Noir or Cavignon, you've heard of these? Sure have.
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So I'm working at the New Deal Open Bar, Good Life Bar because we got live performances, live music and DJs and it's a good way vibrant modern bar where we try to bring international level of dreams and hospitality and vibes to Geneva because we really believe that Geneva needs it especially there are so many experts working there a lot of people were there from like the United States, UK also a lot of people from all over Europe working there so we really need the bar which is a very different vibe. It's kind of like elegant and modern at the same time quite dark lots of lights and very very vibrant and we actually don't try to work in a tie and shirt we just work in like polishers very cool. I'm quite tattooed as you can see my hair cut is not not a normal haircut either so we believe you can be yourself and just be nice and I actually noticed that all those people coming in their suits and just being very posh in Switzerland they finish work and they come to our bar and they just lose an app because we are dressed at the way we are and we are looking at the way we are we just welcome them with a big smile and then the show goes on. Right it's interesting you brought that up because I do also believe that like sort of not having set uniforms for your staff like I don't have those in my bars and like just kind of letting people be themselves and like yeah dress nice don't like show up and like track the answer.
Yeah flip flops like I had that issue at one of the bars that I owned I had to because it's like sometimes you get you let people take it too far and get too casual but I do as like basically when I tell my staff it's just like dress nice like dress like you would come up to a nice bar but you but be yourself at the same time and I do think that that sort of like you said it's sort of like loosens the vibe in the bar so people don't have to feel so like it's such a stuck up place right like if you want yeah if you want the black tie service there are places for you like you can go to a fine dining restaurant and have like a press shirt and a bow tie serve you and that's a certain kind of experience but do you find it in general in Europe certainly in North America I find it that's sort of loosening up where people are just like the staff just a little bit more casual but the level of service is still at that fine dining sort of level. Yes well actually what we are doing is just like we are like super relaxed and then very like choking and very cool with people but very respectful at the same time and I still can probably say that we're giving like a super five-star service to everyone at the same time so there is like a bit of contrast you know because in Geneva if you want this kind of service and quality you pay double triple price and you still don't get maybe the same quality of cocktail I'm talking about like hotel bars, five-star hotel bars, luxury hotels they do the same like service where you're attentive and so on but maybe drinks are warm and not a not the same presentation and I really know it's not the same thing like they just do very classics maybe not very well executed the bartenders have this very formal plastic training from the hotel schools because Switzerland has a lot of hotel management schools industry schools they are worldwide non for that but they just give the old school training to everyone so they just didn't change that and if you go to others you just have the same drinks and style of making drinks like 50 years ago maybe so things were changing meanwhile and they just don't notice it I think the trends are different the quality went like the competition is high so you need to keep improving doing better things people also learned what's a good drink and especially the pandemic everyone was mixing themselves drinks so they really started to know what they want and you can't just give them whatever because they're not gonna be happy you just need to give them your best and it's even harder than before to make them make them happy so I really say that we bring in the Pfizer hotels like what people could get almost in five-star hotels but not about quality about the service it's like they can get it easily they're just walking and they just really really take care of them but I have to say it's also genuine in hotels you do that because you have to talk and serve in a different way and all of our you get served and we really actually care about you so there is more personal connection and then we actually listen to people so they were coming back we remember details we asked questions so it's just it's like a nice whole picture that just makes everything easily accessible for everyone so it doesn't actually matter I was talking about guys in suits finishing the office but even if you're wearing flip-flops you can still come to our room you'll never kick you out so it's like very accessible to local people to experts to office people to superstars whoever want to come they just welcome you know but they still get a five-star service and then level of drinks so we're talking about like we're saying like the Switzerland's very well known for these part-time schools and would you ever consider doing something like that and sort of teaching this sort of new way to do it well I've been thinking a lot about this and once I actually almost got the opportunity to teach in one of the local schools in the hospital schools but then they just cancel parents for that just because of the pandemic right and I actually I think I would take it I would take the opportunity because my personalities like I want to say the things the way they are and I don't like to make like a glitter good glitter on things I just say the way it is and it would make it absolutely pleasure to just be there and tell everyone like this is prep so let's improve it and let's try to do it the right way the modern way and and just start moving things and I'm actually one of my goals moving in Switzerland is trying to make a change and and I really want to put Switzerland on the international mob because now if you talk about Switzerland you just know okay it's key chocolate the cheeses way but you can't name one bar well we have this new section of the podcast I call like Kip Saunders life advice to his guests I think you should do that I think you should get a type of person should be doing it anywhere in the world but definitely it sounds like they could use your help there in Switzerland we really appreciate you coming on the show and we really appreciate you coming on so late your time I know your vampire but still I got it but it's still it was nice of you it was nice of you to do this before we let you go tell our listeners where they can access your social media content or how they can keep up with what you're doing well I'm using Instagram and Facebook so you can just type in my name's Kathleen Ben and I'm usually popping up first right on top and yeah I'm happy to be here thanks again for inviting me it's an absolute pleasure I actually have no idea how you found me because you guys from from the other side of the phone but I'm actually very very happy to have the opportunity to be here well let me just say like I know one of generally books I guess there's a lot of reaching out to people based on stuff I see online and so you did pop up you're you're doing some great things that's how people find out about you I also like to thank you for answering and coming on and agreeing to come on but then actually showing up is that's a problem we have some business yeah I know how this is we work in a flaky industry yeah well thanks again honestly you're it's great to have people like you in the industry you're obviously super smart you know what you're doing you know what you want to do and industry's lucky to have you so think about getting into some teaching thank you so much thanks again thanks for staying with me we appreciate it was great meeting you yes thank you so much guys and the actors just to you with some why it's not from Reeba but it's still a bit right