This week's guest is Kim Hasaru, who joins us from Phoenix, Arizona. Kim has starred in the industry bartending in New York City in the 90s and has had a very successful career. Kim is a recognized mixologist and beverage consultant. Kim has appeared as a judge on Iron Chef America and made appearances on The Today Show, CBS's Early Morning Show, and she's the author of the best-selling 101 Cocktail Series of Books.
This includes such titles as 101 Margaritas, 101 Martinez, 101 Blended Drinks, and many more titles in the series. Recently, Kim has opened up a U-Bar in downtown Phoenix named Garden Bar Phoenix. And go ahead and show. Okay, we're back with another episode of the industry podcast.
My name is Kip. This is Dan. What is going on? Not too much.
Just hanging out with another fun day at work. As usual, just watching the Leafs turn color and fall off everywhere and creating more work. Yourself? How do you guys come with us?
Well, anyone's listening to this one. I'm either mayor or not. So we'll find out. We're recording as a week left in the campaign.
So one more debate to go, a lot of canvassing to go. And home stretch. Nice. I'm Kip.
Any of you using stories from canvassing to go? Nothing. Two knots, actually. I was expecting a little bit of some more pushback and stuff.
More pushback, a little bit more insane reaction and some crazy people. But I think most people are pretty nice. And then I'm pretty clear if they don't want to talk to you. No, I've done that before.
I'll stand it. When you go canvassing door to door to door to door to day time, we're going to eat things. It depends on what you're trying to accomplish. If I have more time during the day, I'm mostly just dropping off door hangers with my platform on it.
And if I get to go on evening, usually if you go around six o'clock, then it's more like knocking on the doors and talking to the people individually. Okay. I was curious about that. Yeah.
Some people are happy to see you. Not as much. Not as much. But anyway, it's been a lot of fun and we're winding it down.
Perfect. Well, good luck. Yeah, thanks. Okay.
Well, this show is not about that. It's about the industry. So we should have zero on that. We have a great guest joining us in just a minute.
Kim Hasler-Rood will be joining us from Phoenix. And before we get to that, we should mention if you like what we're doing here on the show, you should subscribe, you should rate, you should review. If you'd like to be a guest on the show, you can DM us at the industry podcast on Instagram or you can email us directly info with theindustrypodcast.club. That's also where you could reach out regarding sponsorship.
Sakhana at Sakhana.co. He does the art work for the Instagram page. He's amazing. He does the stuff he does at his own website.
Anything else before we get to our guy? Your own bars? Oh, yeah. I should plug those bars.
So, Kitchener and Waterloo should run. We'll be featuring on October 29th at our Halloween party that's going to be the Brown Man Electric Tree doing the entire thriller record. So that'll be exciting. Brown Man is the touring trumpeter for the Missy Elliott others and he was featured on all the jazz and the tas records in the 90s.
So you know what, check that out. If you're in Kitchener and Tree Eptown Waterloo, we'll have DJ Nana, that same night DJ Nana. Urging artists in the Toronto, Ontario area. So that'll be DJ Nana Saturday the 29th in Babylon, this was Wine Bar.
And Brown Man Electric Tree Eel should've run Speakeasy, downtown Kitchener. Wonderful. Yeah, it's pretty good. Okay, so nothing about that.
Tim Hasler, how are you? I'm great. How are you? We're all right.
Thanks for joining us. Thanks very much. How's the other? The Air Yeah, so I lived in New York, totally going to be dating myself in the 90s is where I bartended first.
So I lived there for 10 years, also worked a little bit in the entertainment industry. From there, I moved to Los Angeles, so I was there for about another 10 years and then here in Phoenix for the last 11 years. Oh, well, so let's talk a little bit maybe just about the differences that you found bartending or I guess you're not still currently bartending, you're more doing writing and shows and well, you know, I was I had a consultancy for almost 20 years called Liquid Architecture. So I've been open a lot of bars in this country and even outside this country right for the pandemic.
We did a cool project in India, but I was saying my bread and butter has has like for the past 10 years been in like the national accounts world. So doing a beverage program and bartender training and drink development, also drink development for like your brands and serve up in puree companies. So I've been kind of what I spent kind of the bulk of the last 20 years doing, but I just opened up my own craft cocktail bar in downtown Phoenix. Oh, yeah, this past December called Garden Bar.
I'm super excited about because I've helped open up so many bars and this is the first time like I get to have my own brick and mortar space, which is pretty cool. It's pretty exciting. Yeah, it's a lot of work though. I got to say like I've been in operations hell for like it is hard.
I mean, like, you know, you wear all the different hats, you know, and you got to be, you know, you got to be the boss, you got to be the marketing director, you got to be the manager. I mean, it's, you know, HR, you got to be all those things. I know, especially when it's a smaller business, right? Like you're not you can do on the dough at the beginning to like hire a team to do this stuff for you.
So you're kind of doing it all yourself. That's exactly right. Our space was in 1914 bungalow and it's actually in a neighborhood. And so and it's a mixed use neighborhood, but if you were to let go and drive on our street, you would probably think you're being dropped off in the wrong place because it feels very residential.
I mean, trees and lots of other like historic houses, but it's a mixed use neighborhood, lots of other like attorneys and so forth. But because of that, we when we, you know, going through this whole process has also been a huge lesson in civics for us. You realize how much the left hand of the city's not talking to the right hand and we're going to jump through a lot of a lot of hoops, but we did have to sign some stipulations. So we have limited like seating and hours and operations.
So that's also been a little challenging, but we're going in front of the city like in another month to get the stipulations removed. So so yeah, so being a small business to your point is like you do have kind of like limited funds that you can play with to like go hire, you know, someone like a marketing director or whatever, but how do you so hopefully that will shift into another gear here like in the next four or five weeks. Yeah. And it's funny that you mentioned that too because like mentioning all those sort of restrictions that got put on your place, like that's the kind of stuff that you don't find out about until you're already committed.
It's like it's not like you can research that in advance and be like, okay, maybe this spot isn't for us. It's like you have found the location you think works. It's owned properly. You know, you can get a license there.
And then the city comes and it's like, oh, by the way, yeah. And you know what? Ironically, it actually wasn't the city. It was just some of the neighbors who ironically don't even live in the neighborhood that push point.
But when, you know, sometimes when people think bar, their mind immediately goes to fooders and people and it's not that kind of place. But you know, but I got to say, like even I think one of the big advantages is having limited hours of operation that allowed us to come slow grow. Like we didn't feel all of this pressure to like, you know, you go, oh my God, we got to make this nut. We got to make, you know, this we, so we were able to kind of plan that a little bit more and like kind of figure out, you know what, that doesn't work.
It allows us more time and flexibility to kind of tweak. Right. Yeah, that does have us an engine for sure. So what made you decide to move from like consultancy, like mostly consulting to just going and diving into your own spot?
You know, I always eventually had wanted to open up my own bar, but I think I kind of did it backwards because most people get out, you know, they go out to consultancy and did the opposite. Right. And I've just learned a lot, you know, and consulting and seeing kind of what works and what doesn't work. And I've always been a really creative person and then not being able to kind of like really do or what I want.
So for me, it's this huge creative outlet as well. And also with our staff, we have a really small bartender staff, which are all women and it kind of just worked out that way. But it's been awesome to kind of mentor them along the way and like the process, which has been great. So yeah, I think something I always wanted to do and I think it's a great little and I got to say to the space is, it's amazing.
It's one of the spaces that you walk into the bar, you walk in, as soon as we bought it, we walked into the house and it just feels good. You know, space just the energy and the light. It just feels good. Like the windows and the lighting.
And I always wanted to do a space that was kind of the antithesis of most craft cocktail bars. Most craft cocktail bars are a little dark, kind of like thinly lit. This is the complete opposite of that. I mean, it feels like you're going to someone's house.
So like it's a lot of light, a lot of gardening, a lot of growth, even like the bar top feels like a kitchen counter. It's, yeah, and you know, we don't have like your typical two top four top seating. It's more like, you know, the different living rooms with leather couches and coffee tables and it's just, yeah, it's just literally kind of set up like a house. Yes.
Yeah. Cool. That's a good idea. Yeah.
Okay. So let's go backwards a little bit. So this is sort of where you've ended up, but you've done a whole shit ton of stuff before that. And we'll try to get to most of it.
But see, start out in New York and you're bartending there and then you make them move out out. At what point do you start doing sort of more of the consulting and getting into writing the books? You know, it's kind of an interesting story. So I was, I worked at, I moved to New York City to like work in the entertainment industry.
So that's what I was doing initially. So I worked in like casting and did a, did a little stint on like a couple of soap operas with, with the, you know, behind the scenes production. Really loved it. But I was always a bartender to supplement my income.
And I loved bartending. I mean, the money was great. I love the, you know, creating cocktails and I loved hospitality. You know, we've, but, but at the time it was just kind of, you know, kind of a means to an end.
You know, you never really thought about pursuing that as a career. And then I had an opportunity come up and I worked for, I actually, I worked for one restaurant group that gave me a lot of creative freedom. I said, Hey, if you want to go and like the walk in and, and, you know, experiment. And so they allowed me to do that.
So I kind of nerd it out a little bit. You know, people would come into the bar and say, you know, make me, make me a, you know, a New York summer day cocktail. And I'm like, okay. And I go raid the walk in and like, you know, come up with something.
I mean, at the same time, when I worked in the entertainment industry, I was fortunate enough to go to like some movie premieres and the Sundance Film Festival. And it was always really blown away when I would go to those events because it was so much money put towards those events. I mean, this is in the nineties. They would spend a million dollars, you know, a couple million dollars on, on a movie premiere, but so much focus was put on the food and the entertainment and the decor.
But the drinks were always an afterthought. And they never really matched the greatness of the event. And I looked around the room, every single person had some kind of drink in their hands. And I was like, you know, if you just put a little more effort into the drinks, you could really enhance someone's experience tenfold.
So kind of coming from a background of using a lot of fresh ingredients. That's initially how I started my consultancy was in the entertainment industry. So I had a lot of friends that were producers and, you know, I said, Hey, why don't you let me like do do the bar? And they were like, Oh, say, you know, would come over and I would do creative drinks.
So kind of got on the radar of that and started doing some movie premieres and I would hire an art director to come and prop out the bar like the Batman caves, which was cool because, you know, a lot of the liquor brands were used to just dropping off products and not really nothing was really done creatively with their brands, but I made them look really good. And so from that, I started getting some more gigs of Max and magazine is actually one of my first big clients actually I traveled the country with them and did like their big Super Bowl parties and had blast started working directly with a lot of the liquor brands and that kind of a morphed eventually into them. A lot of the liquor brands hiring me for national accounts and doing bartender training. So that's kind of what it's evolved into.
Yeah, so I've been doing that for like 20 years. So I've worked with tons of accounts ranging from, you know, cheesecake factory to Darden to Marriott hotel. I mean, you know, the Aladdin out the same time I've written a few cocktail books and gotten to do some cool media stuff and travel, which has just been great. It's been awesome.
So like when you're, would you say to basically sort of the secret to your career here that you sort of kind of almost fell into is not what you really expected to do. It's just kind of not saying no to anything and I guess something comes up. You're just kind of like, Oh, sure, I could probably do that. And then next thing, you know, you're working for a liquor company or you're working in this party or traveling with Maxim.
You know, I would say it's a little bit of that. And then I was kind of on the front end of that curve when Exology was really starting to take off and I was really creative. You know, when it comes to something like the books, it's not something like you necessarily fell into. One of my, one of my, one of my sayings that I live by is, you know, luck is when like opportunity meets preparedness.
So I worked really hard, you know, and I wrote some book proposals for a different book, but I definitely put in a lot of time, probably a hundred hours, you know, like doing all the research and figuring out, you know, literary agents and how that whole process works. And then I was, when I was presented with another opportunity, then I was ready to take that opportunity. Right. Yeah.
So I didn't even do it by that. You know, by luck, I just meant like that, like for doing the parties and stuff, it's like, you know, you're reasoning why to have to New York to work in the entertainment industry. And next thing, you know, you're sort of our tenor to all the parties. Yeah.
But I do want to talk about the books. So what gave you the idea to do the books? And so we did, we're having conversation before we started recording is the, like, is the book like Margarita 101, like introduction to Margarita or is it a hundred one margaritas? People make that mistake.
Yeah. And so we did that with like a hundred one margaritas, 101 martinis, 101 tropical drinks, 101 blender drinks. I did like a whole series of eight different books. Oh, that's actually that kind of cross-marketing, right?
Yes. Yeah. Those guys know what they're doing. And like, you know, I'm a huge proponent of like fresh ingredients.
I go to my farmer's markets, I go to my produce markets. And really, my process was like, I would just go find like fresh seasonal ingredients and then build a margarita around them. If you start with like really good ingredients like that, it becomes easy. Right.
And it's an interesting way to attack the drink too, because I think a lot of people start when they say, okay, I'm going to make a margarita or a new style of margarita, play on margarita, however you want to say it. Like they start with like, okay, I'm going to have tequila, I'm going to have quantru, like start that way. But you're more like coming at it from, let's get the fresh ingredients first and then somehow make that into a margarita. Right.
Right. I'll figure out the stuff that goes best for those ingredients, right? I like that. So when you've done a lot of TV appearances you were mentioning previously, like what, so which part because your career has spanned so many different kind of cool areas?
Like what part of your career was it the book writing or the consulting or like how did you get on these shows? You know, I got to say like writing a book. Even the book writing, at least the books that I did, it's not a huge profit center. It's not like you can make a living off that.
It's a nice little chunk of change. But I think, and a lot of people's minds that it gives you, that's a great tool to use for media. It's a great tool to use to get on to different shows or do different appearances or different radios or different podcasts. Right.
It's a great tool to get your name out there. So I would say, you know, I think, I mean, I would give that advice to anybody. Like if you can kind of create something that can be shared, I think that is a great branding tool and it's a great tool to get you out there. And that's sort of the whole name of the game these days, right?
Like you mentioned with all these different avenues of potential promotion for you, whether it's podcast or TV or radio or whatever the hell it is. Like basically, if you have all these different things that you're doing, the consultancy, the book authoring, the training sessions, whatever it is, you can kind of plug them all if you can just get on and outlet to plug them, right? Right. Right.
No, I think that's exactly right. And I think that really did a lot of wonders for definitely help my career long as far as like getting noticed and getting contacted and led to other jobs too. So I'm assuming you've done lots of traveling through this consultancy and you're mentioning that you were doing the, do you just end up by India? So when you're out there, talk to us a little bit about some of the coolest spots you've been to and maybe some of the more challenging spots when it comes to opening a bar for whatever reason.
Yeah. I've really been fortunate in my career to have been able to kind of travel and actually judge a lot of competitions. I judged, you know, D'Oggio world class and D'Oggio have been a judge for the Bombay Sapphire most imaginative competition, which took me to places like London. And I got, you know, what's fascinating to me about London is when, you know, this kind of in the early 2000s, oh my God, London was terrible for cocktails.
I mean, it was just, it was like they had great pubs, but the cocktails was not at all, you know, very, very, very behind the US. But I would say it took about maybe seven to 10 years and now they are way too fascinating to the things that they can do and what they're doing. I think they're given a lot of resources and, you know, here in the US with a lot of the restrictions with liquor brands, it doesn't, you know, you're, it's just harder to do on what they can do there. So I think that's a super exciting spot to be.
I would love to go to like Singapore, which I haven't been to. But you know, I, as far as like difficulties of opening a bar, I think the language barrier and really understanding their culture, you know, we did in working with national accounts with like P.F. James, for example, we looked at, you know, a while ago doing some cocktails for Brazil and their cocktails are pallet, people like drinks to be a lot sweeter. So I was coming up with something that was about, I would consider to be a balanced cocktail and you know, they're, they're global persons like, no, no, no, no, it needs to be a lot sweeter than that.
It needs to be like strong and sweet. And he made me some of their like classic cocktails. And I'm like, wow, they would never like this here. But you had to understand like the culture and their palette, how different it is in the U.S.
and I think so that's something that you kind of have to really consider and going there and really understanding what people are drinking and why. So I think that's an important factor. But also, you know, we take for granted here in the U.S. how easy it is for us to get ingredients.
And we have just a world of global ingredients in our fingertips. I mean, I can go on Amazon or to Blue Algae, you know, I can do all of these great things and you cannot do things like that in India. So we, you know, one thing I really took for granted was even just citrus, like lemon and lime juice is very expensive there. So we really had to look at, you know, maybe doing some acids instead, you know, as another way to get to get that.
So, you know, understanding like what's available there was not available and really kind of working within the toolbox that you have. Like you should never go to a country thinking like, okay, here's the menu that I'm going to bring to them because it's never going to work out. Right. And it's interesting.
So it's kind of, so it's challenging in that respect because you can't just like have sort of your set menu of go to drinks that you can bring somewhere and be like, okay, you can use two, seven and eight and over here, so it's three, five and nine. But also it's kind of great for you as a creative person or like student creative things because you're kind of forced to be creative based on dealing with what's available to you. Right. And I think my experience with national accounts has really helped with that because I always have to play in their toolbox.
Right. You know, it's kind of like how creative, you know, here's our sandbox. Here's the tools that we have in our sandbox. Here's the type of sand that we have.
Be as creative as you can be within this sandbox. It's kind of the same, a little of the same mentality in that you have to kind of come to them and be creative in the little set world that you have. Right. Yeah.
It's funny because like I've had to do much smaller amount of that and I always get frustrated because I'm just like, I'm not as creative as you. So I'm just like, I'll get frustrated with having like being my handstied behind my back with what I can use. I can't do it. So it's kind of interesting for someone as creative as you are where you that kind of gets your juices flowing a little bit because it's like a challenge to overcome.
You know, it is. And I think it's also, is it like, you know, and you kind of have to hang your ego at the door, you know, like, is this a drink that I would drink not necessarily, but is it a drink that they would drink probably? And is it good enough? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm interested in doing the notion of like, obviously the restrictions of one green is you can get when you go to a certain spot. But I also, I never really thought before about the other part of this you mentioned where it's like, what do they actually like to drink there?
Because, you know, like we're all people, but people are different all over the world. No, it's never something I would have had to think about before. So what in all the places you've traveled, what was there specific country where it was like maybe most challenging or most you had even more creative to kind of meet the needs of the culture? You know, I would say, I mean, out of all places I've been to India was definitely the most challenging, both culturally and from an ingredient perspective.
I mean, there was so many things to to consider. I mean, even things like, you know, they all, you know, they have kind of big dreams and visions of what they wanted their programs to look like, but even something like ice. Yeah. Very hard, very good to do.
And so, you know, when we were like, you know, we were showing them how they could make like their own like large format ice in this ice chest. And, but the amount of time, but you know, labor is really, really cheap. So they didn't mind putting in six hours of prep time, you know, like that wasn't as big a deal as it is here. Right.
So there's something that went made a little bit easier. We had a lot of people at our fingertips to kind of help put the program together and do different roles. But yeah, ice was a big one. Citrus was a big one.
And I know, as far as like the spirits go, I thought it was kind of interesting, like Scott was really popular there too. And like I would see another thing that I thought was kind of funny was, you know, they had the botanist there, which was kind of new here at the top. And I'm like, wow, out of all the things that you don't have, you've got the botanist there. I mean, it's got to be influenced from Scotland, right?
Because like, yeah, actually, great point. Great point. But that's funny. I wouldn't guess that either.
But the only reason I know that he was like, Scott, just because of the damn root fusion, right? The which is like, who only became sort of known to us maybe like 10 years ago or something like that in North America, when like Jim Miller's award in his whiskey Bible or whatever. So yeah, I'm sure they paid for it. But I bought that.
I love that spirit. I think it's delicious. But that was my first introduction to fact at all. Like they like single malt whiskey in India.
Okay. I mean, other piece too, that is that, you know, because I'm a woman and kind of having to kind of go through that barrier too. We did a project in South America once to where, you know, like after a certain time, you know, it was like, you don't want to be by yourself. So having to have like an escort, you know, to take you back.
Oh, right. Just the culturally, culturally of having someone in the West, you know, come there at the same time, I think that, you know, on the one hand, I think they wanted someone from the West to come for that reason because the West brings kind of innovation. But at the same time, there's a lot of other hurdles and a lot of other. Yeah.
So who's this gringo show on the other? So when I come to the training aspect of it, talk to us a little bit about some of the challenges of like going to another country and like training their staff, especially if there's a language barrier. Well, here's the interesting thing about training. Every place that I've been to has embraced it.
No, it's way more than here in the US. I feel like here in the US, a lot of our tenders, you know, they kind of have a little more say and a little more freedom. Whereas there, they are jumping at that chance for education and mentorship and training in a way that I'd have an experience here. So they are like soaking up every word that you say and are putting into practice and want approval, which I think the training, even with the language barriers, them just watching you, I think is because it was really great.
I had great experiences with the training. Oh, that's good. Yeah. I guess that makes sense, right?
Because they're not having you out there unless they want to learn like why pay for it, because here in the North America, it's like somebody gets a job at your spot and they're just like, you don't even know how seriously they're taking it. Maybe it's just something they want to do, whether they're putting themselves to their school or whatever, right? And those are the fucking challenging people to train. Yeah.
Yeah. Because they don't want the knowledge. I discovered that I recently opened this wine bar and like trying to get wine knowledge across to people who are only semi-interested in the wine, but mostly interested in having an employment. Oh, God.
It makes a huge difference when you have people that are there because they want to be there versus just, I'm just here for a job. I used to have such challenges with union properties for that reason. We did a project in New York City at a union property and even something like cracking an egg, I mean, it was just like, well, we need to get approval from union. I'm like, what are you talking about?
And they just wanted to push back on anything and they had the ability to do that and just makes it harder. Did you have any culinary training as well? Because it seems like just the way you describe how you go about making your cocktails from, we talked a lot of people who came from the back of the house first and ended up from the house and the way you describe how you do your sort of creative process reminds me of someone who came from the back of the house to the front of the house. You know, I didn't.
Yeah, but I just had a lot of people around me when I worked in New York City that kind of gave me a lot of leeway and showed me a lot of techniques. And also, this was at the same time when like the Eldegroft was coming into his own in the 90s, started to make a splash and also talked about using a lot of fresh ingredients. But you know, I didn't come up in the ranks with having to learn like these classic cocktail templates and wanting to do things the way they did in the 1800s. And I kind of like to kind of break those rules a little bit and just really focus on bringing the great ingredient to life.
And I think I've always kind of had that as my mantra. Yeah, keep it fresh, keep it simple. Are there any specific books that you that sort of helped you along your journey as well? Like we, I mean, there's a classic as well, but I don't know if there any of them that you specifically sort of read and learn from or do you just kind of figure it out on your own?
There's a little bit of both, but one, two books that I really loved was they were like the volumes, Mixology One and Mixology Two, but it had a lot of different essays in them from Audrey Saunders to Jared Brown about like how to open a bar, the importance of ice. Julie Reiner had one too, but those were really, really good books. The Joy of Mixology Two, as Regan such a good book. And I think that was really influential in really kind of thinking about different cocktails and different templates.
Yeah, the Journal of the American Cocktail, Volume One and Volume Two. Okay, cool. I don't think anyone's talked about those books on the show before. So everybody talks about the same lines.
I always, it's always like death and co and liquid intelligence. Yeah. I mean, I always think it was like a next generation. It has a lot of like really great cool techniques, which I love those books too.
Yeah, I was, yes, the Journal of the American Cocktail, Volume One and Volume Two. So this is, you know, this came out in like 2007. So, and it was really all about, you know, the importance of ice and, you know, the right height that a bar needs to be and the stools and how far away they need to be in the importance of like a foot rail and all of those things. If you're ever looking to like open up a bar, I would highly, highly recommend those to come out.
It's much better than the way I went about it, which was fuck a bunch of shit up and intro. Does everyone slightly better but still but constantly making mistakes. Okay. So, well, thanks a lot for giving us your time here.
This was super fascinating. Maybe tell our listeners where they can follow you and find out about what you're up to next and how to get to your bar when they're in Phoenix. Yeah. So you can go to, I recommend a couple of different handles.
I have my personal handle, which is at Kosserud. And I have two Asa, my name is K-H-A-S-A-R-U-D, or follow my bar at Garden Bar Phoenix, I'll spell about on Instagram. We are in downtown Phoenix. We're only like five minutes from the airport in the south of Roosevelt District on right on 6th Avenue.
So come check us out. We'd love to serve you a couple of great cocktails. Yeah. I hope you can deal with these neighbor issues and get to some regular hours.
It looks like it sounds like you're about ready for it now. Yeah. Anyway, thanks again, Kim. We really appreciate you giving us the time this evening and best of luck going forward with all.
I'm sure you're going to be up to some more exciting stuff soon. So we'll stay tuned and follow you. Well, thank you so much. And good luck to you too.
I'm Figur S. Kross that you're by the time people hear this that you are mayor. I am mayor, right? Thanks very much.
Thank you. Thanks again. Have a great night. Thanks.