E137 Alie Kudoba Returns

This week, Ally Cudoba returns to join us for her second appearance on the show. Ally joins us while vacationing in the Dominican Republic. We start off talking about Ally's side hustle, her bartending and cot-telling business. We also cover the work that goes into crafting a cocktail list for a corporate large-capacity bar, and the many different factors that influence the final outcome, and how you draw that fine line between creativity and the corporate reality that relies on cost and efficiency.

If you're interested in booking Ally for your next private or corporate event, you can find her on Instagram at alchemist.ally, and that is spelled A-L-C-H-E-M-I-S-T-D-A-L-I-E. Or check the show notes for the links. Enjoy the show. Okay, welcome to another episode of the industry podcast.

My name is Kip, with me as always as Dan. What's going on, buddy? Not too much. So at the microphone's probably this time, she'll be able to hear me when I talk.

Oh, well, that's a shame. Yes. A lot of people say that actually. Some of it.

Yeah, well, do you want to talk about your weekend? This weekend. This weekend was a lot different from last week. Oh, yeah, I guess that would be last week.

Yeah, I didn't get blackout drunk, and I wasn't really drunk as person in town. Well, second drunk as person. Oh, I'm like, you know, I'm a sussan. You're all grown up.

Yep, yep. I'm almost 50. Well, we have a great guest as always this week. The wonderful Alchemist, Ali, is going to be joining us in just a second.

Do you remember from her previous episodes? And she's bailed us out because our guest that was supposed to be on the show today told, we record the show on Monday. She told me on Friday that she had a cold, so she wouldn't be able to record on Monday. That was a new one.

Yeah, well, super cold service industry. So Ali is nice enough to join us directly from the Dominican Republic, which is on vacation, so that was super nice. So we'll be bringing her in in a second. Before we get to that, we should mention that if you like what we're doing here on the show, subscribe, rate review.

It helps tremendously. The artwork, Zacana. That's Zacana.co. He does the artwork for the Instagram page, so you should be checking him out.

And if you want to be a guest on the show, you can either DM us at the industry podcast on Instagram or email us directly info at theindustrypodcast.club. That's also where you can connect to us for potential sponsorship. If you're in the case or want to lose area, you're going to want to hit up Sugar Run, downtown Kitchener. Lots of big events coming up, big new years happening.

So with the Brown man, Ali, so you want to check that out, you can find out what's going on there at Sugar Run Bar on Instagram. Uptown Waterloo, Babylon Sisters, at Babylon Sisters Bar on Instagram. We also have a great New Year's Playing For You. One season with Mary Catherine Palazzo.

So amazing jazz vocalist and piano player. And then the late night gets turned up by the return of DJ Mittens and Larry Word. That's going to be sick in Al Capello. Yeah, that'd be great.

Yeah, so you'll want to check that out. So that's check out both those bars if you're in the kitchen, Waterloo area or if you're visiting. And also check out the Bauer Kitchen home to the lovely and talented Alchemist Ali. How are you, Ali?

I'm good. I mean, I'm on vacation, so I'm better than you guys. Yeah, I'm sure. Thanks very much for having us.

Yeah, yeah, thanks for doing it on your game. Very nice. Getting into the game. Good.

Good. So yeah, you just arrived in Dominican Republic today and you still are doing our show. So we appreciate that. Oh, I'm happy to talk about myself whenever you want me.

Yeah. Perfect. OK. So we're going to take ourselves in very humble, you know.

Well, so what's going on? Tell us about the happenings of the Bauer Kitchen these days. There's always seems to be some shake up and management or on the floor. You got lots of moving parts there.

Yeah. Oh, which you've seen? I think it's better for sure because those taps are out of the way. Thanks.

Yeah. Better. First. Sure.

I mean, you don't have that chicken bar anymore. No, really nice. Honestly, we've been open for almost 15 years. I could be wrong.

Like, give or take. But I think it's almost 15 years. I've been there 10 years next year will be my 10 years, which is crazy. So I think 15 years is the first right.

Oh, we've done. Well, it was a bad time. Yeah. What is there a lot of other staff that have been there that long as well?

Or is it kind of just like a handful of you? They're the one with a handful of us. But there's me and Tika have been there. We got hard at the same time.

That's almost 10 years. And then above us is Danielle and Reba and Riva worked at our and charcoal takeout. So if you are a regular, either you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. You know, we miss it.

I don't know if I know her. Like I probably know where to see her. Yeah. You would be here at four o'clock if she's leaving.

I got to. Got you. All right. You see bartender or server?

A server. Oh, OK. Well, then I'm sure I do know her. But yeah, it was probably not by name.

So what? Yeah. What, how are things going in general there? Like, you guys get a lot of Christmas parties this time of year or have you found it slower, busier?

We typically get a lot of Christmas parties. I think this week that I'm away, it's a wrap up. But November and December have always been really, really busy. And it's not been that way.

Like, leaving up to my vacation, it's been pretty dead. I work Monday through Friday. So like that could be why I know on Saturdays, like Friday nights and Saturdays, it's pretty busy. But I also am off most Fridays and Saturdays for my side hustle.

I don't see it. But we can see it's like dead city. And I was saying this before we started recording, I'm like, is this a recession? Like, is this happening?

I wonder. I think it's a, I think it might be a combo because like I also noticed that since we've come back from like the lockdowns on the pandemic, people just got used to being at home. And so they're really only going out on the weekends, right? Like the week nights are just dead.

No, absolutely. Even on the bus ride to my resort, I met a couple from Toronto. Like I used to live in Waterloo briefly for work. He worked at Sunlight and he's like, it's so weird.

No one does anything there. Like during the week, he's like, it was 10 o'clock on Thursday. And he was like, what's going on? Like, what are we doing?

And everyone's going to bed? Like, you can't sit on Toronto. And I'm like, yeah, this is so good. So when you have someone from out of town come in and you're bartending and they're like, hey, what's like cool to do around here?

And they're like, holding, holding to the movies. I'm like, I don't want to answer that question. Yeah. So I'm asking it.

I know it is a bit of an issue in kitchen and water, Lou in general. There's not a whole ton of cool spots to go to yet. And so we definitely need to change some of that. We need more.

Like when I think about going out, if I'm going out on like one of my nights off and it's, I'm not going to one of my bars and like, it's really hard to think where to go to. I'm not going to one of my bars. I don't know. Exactly.

Exactly. That's a plug. It's really nice to do it. That's a plug.

But it is a bit of an issue in control. Like in Toronto, like you definitely, like we're getting to a big enough size of the city that there should be more places to go to that are cool if you ask me. But like if you're in Toronto, like any night of the week, there's a million choices. Yeah, absolutely.

You could go to the theater. I don't know. I don't know what people do. I'm actually one of those home bodies.

That same guy was telling you about on the bus. He was like, so Ryan for days, he found out. He was Ryan Burley's like, oh, I'm going to go to this club. There's like 4,000 people.

And I was straight up was like, oh, no, thank you. You got your resort or end of end again. It's like, if everyone goes to a couple of bongos you don't go there. I think you said it was a magic or something like that.

You get to 4,000 people and we'll get bottles. And I was like, that was a good nightmare. Yeah, it does sound like a nightmare. I don't want to make friends.

I hate it. You get to a resort, everyone's like, where are you from? And if you're like, oh, Waterloo, have you heard of it? Or do you say Waterloo or do you lie there?

Toronto? Yeah. cousin losing water loom and they're like you know where you can know I think the pandemic for a man on a line well it's hard to it's like we got used to being home more often and then like like your job is so social that when when you do have your nights off to ask the fucking thing you want to do is go out and meet more people yet is the last thing I want to do I think I've talked about that before too I've been like I'm just I don't know it's so bad I feel like either it's made for the pandemic but I'm like my social battery has a limit and then it runs out and I just want I just want to go home and watch my dog. I know.

Basically, because I'm usually Wednesday to Saturday at the bars and then Sunday I often take it off and then by Monday I'm like, okay, now I can talk to people on the podcast again. We always record on Monday nights and then Tuesday. I don't want to see anyone. It's funny.

Oh, my Sundays are my write off. I do not make plans on Sunday. I hate Sundays. I'm at home alone.

I would say meditating. I don't meditate. I just watch my coach live and some chip. I keep that day myself.

Saturday I work typically not at power but doing private and bartending things and then Sundays are typically my only day off and I keep it alone to myself. So when I get a chance to go away, I'm like, okay, I'm now I'm the person going to do the came out with so much random people. I don't know. Yeah.

I think that's something that people don't realize about the whole service industry gig is like they expect you to be on all the time and you are expected to be on all the time. It's like it is exhausting. People who work in a cubicle all week or like work from home, it's not the same situation. They're not out forced socialization as part of their job.

Well, they probably crave it, right? Because you're there alone. Right. It's like my job is, first of all, you have a bad day.

You have to be on happy in a good mood. I mean, you could have a bad day, but that's just going to reflect negatively on your income. Yep. So you're always like, even no matter what you're going through, you have to put that aside and like almost be on stage.

Five nights a week. That's exhausting. It is. And it is like being on stage.

I know like it's that's become like cliché to talk about, but it is. We're putting on an acting performance every night that we're out there. And I do think that's why, like for a long time, nobody ever talked about this, but now people are talking a lot more about the mental health issues and the service industry because it's like it is mentally exhausting. No, it literally sent me to therapy.

Years ago, because I was like, I don't know what else to do. And then I talked to her about it and she's like, it's funny. Sometimes I feel like I've verified my therapist. I'll work out later in therapy.

So you're talking about your side hustle business, the Alkamats Ali business. How's that going? Are you booking lots of parties now that business is ripping up? Yeah, absolutely.

I've been busy up until obviously going away and then I get back a day off and then I ramp right back into it. I have a couple of events like corporate mixology classes. And then I have a couple of days off and then it's Christmas season, like at hours. And I purposely didn't book anything like near the past and super, I can't believe it.

I can't believe it's still going on. I think I have a little bit of imposter syndrome. I don't think I really really just like, how is it still a thing? How is it still reaching out?

Still wanting to book me? I don't know. It's crazy. That's great.

I was saying it the other day, like you really turned yourself into like one of the most sought after bartenders in the city. So you should be proud of that. I got that techno almost right. I think it's a good thing.

It's a good thing. It's a good compliment. It's really sweet. So I don't think I feel like there's so many bigger and better people.

But I think that's a thing too. Yeah, it's good to say hello. But no, it is the truth. We can brag for you.

And you are now doing a cocktail list for two different restaurants. So talk a little bit about how that came together. Is it the same list for both spots or two separate lists? No, they're separate.

So if you've seen, we've been popping up your town like left, right and center. And Jen is she's great. And she's so intelligent to know everything about beer. And she has been so busy with beer.

And it would be your town's been popping up. So it came time for a new cocktail list. And they were like, Jen's like crazy to me. We need someone to do these cocktails and they seen what I was doing without Vitality.

So it was kind of natural that it was me who was going to create our list. And I started doing it. I started thinking about it. Maybe like, I need to start kind of, I don't know.

Like, can you reach out to me? And she was like, okay, I really need to start thinking about like the fall winter list. Like, can you help us? Because you guys are creative too, right?

So it's like, when you are forced to be creative, it doesn't come. So it took me time to really inspiration from what I would see on social media, but also like what is coming. Like, in order to work with your money, because there's always mods, right? Yeah.

And so I was like seeing things and like pulling trends from that, pulling trends from what I see on social media. And so I created a cocktail list from the interesting to do a cocktail list for a restaurant of that side because I have all these creative thoughts. But then it's like, how do you apply that to a restaurant that has like over time? I think I talked about this in the last five, three minutes.

So I might come up with a cocktail and they're like, that's amazing. This tastes great. I think you can put that together in three minutes. I wanted to make a list.

So I had to go to cocktails places in Toronto, one of my favorite places in Seattle, Canada, six to 15 minutes to get to your table, right? And I was kind of emulating that. And it's just not expected in a in my backstage restaurant. So I had to learn, which is really cool and humbling too.

I had to go to each bartender because there's bartenders like me or Danielle, who I've wanted to get at 15 years, hours and opens. But then she worked for me. And then she was like, I mean, I've been bartending and I was like, when I was just walking in and they had no experience, so they need to make these cocktails too. I just feel like that was the biggest challenge because you have a creative side to you and really want to push like to make cocktails better, but that's appeal to and that's how it goes to spots like both wild craft and bar kitchen like appeal to a wide array of different guests, right?

So it's like, so that is something you probably have to think about when you're putting together your list, you really kind of need to have something for everybody. And then also trying to figure out stuff that you can like put out in the three minute chip time thing. Like, are you do you find it? Have you found you using batching yourself at all or?

Oh, yeah, I was doing that. I came out a pretty good job and how many cocktails I had and how the hell would you execute that? And just if we back till then, it's like it's so funny. So long, you almost get bigger, right?

Like you can only you can only teach yourself so much. But I did not know about that. You best for things on the fly. And I'm wow, we're having it.

And I think that's cool too. It's like people come in and they still teaching me, you know, like under head bartender, so learning from everyone else all the time. I think I know it all like someone will say something that I didn't even think about. Well, the people who are best at their jobs, like whether it's like doing what I do, which is an ownership now or doing head bartender, whatever, like the worst thing you can do is think that you've got all the answers.

Like when you stop learning from people, especially the older you get to, like people younger come in and have fresh ideas or have worked somewhere that they're doing some crazy stuff like you just can't be stuck in your ways. No, no, I mean, I think I'm never going to be always going to keep learning to do whatever. And it's like, there doesn't even have to be a like, they're better than you. It just could be they had a different experience than you, right?

Like, so they learned they picked up something that you wouldn't have picked up in your own experiences. So do you find that that's hard working so long in the same spot? Because there's got to be a situation after a while, like you said, I guess a little bit stagnant where there's like, there's not a lot of fresh ideas after a while you're kind of doing the same thing over and over again, I mean, I know you're always updating the list and stuff, but does it help that there's a lot of turnover at the restaurant? Yeah, absolutely hard.

But I don't think I would ever leave. I think I'm leaving the hour I'm leaving me at the show. Really? It's such a bold statement.

And then I think that I don't know if I'm going to like, I'm just saying that but that place and it's like home to me and it's so comfortable. And I know that like getting out of your punch on is good. That having those new people should go in is getting you out of my comfort zone. Like I'm learning.

I mean, I'm a millennial, right? There's Gen B getting hired in here, keeping me so much. And it's like, Oh my gosh, I was always the youngest in the room. And now I'm like, well, I'm like, I'm like, I'm But I like the charcoal group a lot.

And it just I don't know. I'm gonna turn opportunities to come like my probably could be someone in the city who could create pop killer. It's not only with the charcoal group but other like more of a consulting Yeah, train shaft. I could train people three per se.

But I would need the industry at a bartender. But I leave it in the night shift because I've taken a salary position for, you know, Yeah, do you find that there are any constraints on your ability to be creative working in like a more of a corporate style setup? Is it like the charcoal is? Or do they give you free range or whatever you want They get to be found in meeting with doing the two lips.

And I come up with all my ideas and I'm all excited and it's kind of like, no, we don't want to use these garnishes or no, that's not going to work or this flavor is polarizing. And you're kind of like taking it back, your ego gets kind of shut down. You're like, wait, but I just spent my last four months putting my heart and soul into this list. But I'll have you through their thoughts, right?

And then you see corporate side things. So I'm just going to, and then I learned so much about like, no, you have to think about everyone who's sitting down or the costing of things. Like I'll come up with you to learn with garnishes. And they're like, well, why would we put a garnish on something that someone's just going to throw in a plate and we're going to throw it out at 15 feet cocktail lounge like I left to go to in Seattle.

But it wouldn't make sense for the kind of turnover we're doing or the amount of seats we're filling. Right? It's just like wasted money. Like they put a trigger rosemary on something that someone's just going to take out of their drink and throw away.

Well, it looks really nice and it's got a core photo. But what's the purpose of that? I'm learning those things, which I think is really important too. When it comes to that, like I did my podcast with you guys.

Like I don't know when was that a year ago? Probably at least made a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm not concerned about if you're in it into Alton and Dali.

Like I just did corporate events for 500 people at a venue. You should do the like wine and bar rail. But then me and my partner did like touch and cocktails. And when I was making that menu for these people, I took that into consideration.

I was like, okay, well, I need to make sure that my garnishes are something that are officially going to get thrown away. And I'm not going to waste my time like putting like seeds on like I had a pongerang. I was like, okay, I'm not going to waste my time putting pongerang at these onto this cocktail because this is like high volume. No one can be shitted but you're pongerang to like tweez, three pongerang at these onto a cocktail.

It looks definitely hard. But you go in with your heart into a list and then kind of get you down. But I try to work on my eat side and I was trying to get out of the learn experience. Yeah.

And I've like obviously more on that side now where I have to think about waste and like just those things you're talking about because at the end of the day, it's my money that's in the bar. But the corporate situation like that, are you ever sitting down with people? You feel like, okay, I get that you're looking at bottom line principles, but you also don't really know what you're talking about. Like the people like generally people high up in corporate are creative people.

I don't want to like I'm not trying to generalize but like they but they a lot of them, especially in a big, I mean, charcoal groups, a massive operation now. Like the people at the top of the ladder, a lot of them have never worked in a bar their entire lives. Yeah, no, no, they haven't really a challenge for feeling like you feel like I know more than them. But there's also a side of the business that they know more than me.

Right. Sure. I feel like you could talk about this too. If you've been both, you've been so sure there's things that you thought you knew all about as a bartender.

No, I don't know if you may talk to a list for your, do you make this? No, I'm not qualified anymore. It's like, I always say it's like, it's like fucking play in tennis or learning a language. Unless you're practicing those skills all the time, you lose it.

So I lost it. So you can go to the pre-roll in your the same way, like do they have the same knowledge? I'm like, you need to go to the side. Well, they all think they can.

I'll think they can. But I would tell you, like it was a massive eye opener for me. The first when I opened my first bar and I was like, I was the same as like, I bartend for years. I'm like, I could fucking do this.

Like it's not that hard to run a bar. And then you do it for the first time and you're like, holy shit, I had no fucking clue what I was doing. And then you gain, you definitely do get a gain a measure of respect for the people who used to criticize. Right.

Yeah, I've always been the kind of person who is the all side. Am I able to get checked out just a little bit, but I'm also like, show it in learning all of it. I almost don't take it up like the way that the one person said it to me. He was like, what if you had this like, which I put for only five minutes, you know, the fact so that I talked to you five minutes.

I get five words and someone behind them, right? They order two milshir again. And then I'm like, first and then make the cocktail. Yeah, you would.

So I'm like, my biggest worry that I was at the table who ordered two milshir organic waiting. I'm going to go there and I thought out and I think Matt is natural to you. Let's see that. He does.

He is so talented and he may talk to that like me as a bartender. I will speak out. I'm going to show the radio. I'm going to take a few minutes and sit down.

And I'm going to know that Matt's making a joint that he thought about and it's going to be like artistic and well done, whatever hours and I sit down and remind what you're putting for. It's really proud of it. And we really well in that scene like the we're putting forth really good cocktails. But I think those different then kind of ones have like, I think it's a pretty important point here.

And it's like, you really it really does depend what kind of establishment you're working in. And like, just like reading the room to the type of service that you're giving, like you wouldn't be super casual at a very fine dining restaurant showing up with wearing a t-shirt and jeans and and cussing to your table, but you might do that at like more of a dive style bar, right? So it's the same thing with the cocktail situation. Like you need to, you can have an awesome list at like a high end cocktail lounge or at a restaurant that wants to do cocktails as well.

But if you're dealing with 300 seats space, and like you said, not everyone, like you're right, people come to Sugar Run, they're coming for cocktails. Like so, whereas people come to Bauer, like some of them are certainly interested in the cocktails, but like I don't know, what would even the percentage be? Just as many people drink wine or beer or water, right? So like it is a restaurant, first and foremost.

Because the, like in like non-alcohol, what have you noticed that? Oh yeah. That is a thing right now, like so many men here. You used to really piss me off until I realized how much money I could make on alcoholic drinks.

Yeah. Like, first and first time, actually, it was the original head bartender who had out the Dan Collins that Sugar Run put together, we started getting like overrun with requests for non-alcoholic or low alcoholic cocktails. And we were like, fuck this, man, I'm gonna make any money off that. Like, and then he made one that was delicious that people loved and the cost on it was so low and the price of what we could charge for it was so high because it was well put together and delicious.

And we found that people didn't mind paying for it because they're at a high end cocktail house. They want to feel part of the experience of drinking cocktails but they just don't want to booze it. It was like, Jesus. So based on charity, I'm almost the same amount, but I'm eliminating the alcohol.

It was great. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

I feel like that's such a huge frame right now. Like, I'm always taking notes like mentally whenever I'm working or on social media. And I was noticing this summer, especially like, you have like maybe three mocktails on the menu and they were ordered all in there, were like really simple. Like a metal bearing lemonade, like a mocktail, a watermelon, no pita, like just basically juice and citrus and soda, but they were selling like crazy.

And it just proved to me. And I think that like Gen B is showing that I only did, because I work with a lot of them. And I'm always like kind of taking notes on what they're doing and they're like, they're not into getting as wasted as like maybe we used to. What?

Like what? Like what? Like blog saying that like, like, kind of like 2050, like that far in advance. Or into the future, sorry.

Alcohol will be kind of looked at like nicotine is looked at right now. So people definitely feel drained, like people feel snow, but you'll see such a cut and how many people are drinking. Thank God, I'll have drank myself to death by then. I'll give it next week.

Yeah. Never know. Christmas is rough. I would say I want to tap out at 65.

That's a good time. It's all downhill after that. So. Oh my God, it's seven.

You'll be fine. I'd say 65. Have you ever looked at his medicine cabinet though? Those things, it's a fucking horror show.

Oh, I'm terrified. I don't know if I've anything to get there. All right, well, we kept you long enough on your vacation. Thanks for bailing us out here, Al.

You're the best tellers. All our listeners where they can follow you and where they can get in touch with the Alchemist Alley. Yeah, you can just follow me on Instagram right now. Al can I start alley and you can see me at the bar, which I love when people come in and like show me out, but I get a little bit embarrassed.

So don't mind that. Again, I have been postured from so I'm like, oh my God. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm interested to guys and it was like a pleasure. You know, I love to talk about myself. We're going to do this more regularly. We've been sort of doing a new feature where we have some of our favorite bartenders around the world coming on more often.

So we've been talking about doing that with you as well. And so we're the Alchemist Alley. If they want to book you for a private event is the best way to Instagram or do you have an email? Yeah, because it's a feature on Instagram.

It takes you to email. Okay. And then that's how you can get to the end. Okay.

I mean, it's not very formal yet, but working five days a week and one time, I'm happy with the business I'm getting. I know. And it's also like the last thing you're fucking time for is the webs to put together a website and all this shit too. I like, yeah.

I need to do it. I love doing it. And it's so funny to bring it full circle. When I'm doing Al's own.

I have full creative control. I'm like the boss and the creative. So I love. Yeah.

And I like a lot. It's scary to be like, Oh, you're on business. You know, oh, you're fine. Oh, yeah.

I wake up on night sweats every night. Just screaming. I just wake up screaming. Just grandpa met.

All right. Well, thanks again for doing this. All right. It was great for you, especially in the scene of your own vacation.

Give Ryan a big kiss on the mouse for me. Okay. I was a happy birthday. Yeah.

It's a happy birthday from us at the industry. I will. All right. Okay.

I was happy birthday. Yeah. Happy birthday from us at the industry. I will.

All right. Okay. Thanks again. Thanks.

Okay.