This week we are joined by Chef Nui Regular and Jeff Regular, and this merry dynamic duo of behind the pie series of Northern Thai restaurants in Toronto, as well as Keem, Sukutai and Chef Nui is also an executive chef of Celoba. We discuss Chef and Jeff's journey from their first restaurant in Thailand, named the Currichek, to their current and multiple endeavors in Canada. We talk about the difference in opening a restaurant in Thailand versus Toronto, the value of having a loyal staff by treating them well, and Chef Nui discusses her style and philosophy on cooking and the importance of staying true to your identity. It's another terrific interview, and make sure you check out the restaurants if you're in Toronto.
Enjoy the show. Okay, welcome back to the Industry Podcast. I'm your host Kip Sonos with me, producer extraordinaire Dan Soretta. How's it going?
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We got some great guests. Chef Nui, regular, and our husband Jeff are joining us right now. So, thanks for doing the show guys. How are you?
Thanks so much. Thanks so much. Amazing. Hi, thank you for having us.
Oh, for sure. We're honored. So, I think a lot of our listeners will already know about the two of you, but for those of us who don't, maybe describe to us how you got your start in the business, first restaurant, et cetera, and how you ended up in Toronto. Hi, yes.
My back I was a nurse. So, I actually working as a nurse in Thailand almost 10 years, but growing up in a family that's my mother, also cook for a living and I going out to the work as a kitchen helper. So, I just like learned how to cook along growing up and moving into Canada 2006 and opened the first restaurant in 2008, where I opened with my husband Jeff and his father. The first restaurant name is Sakotai.
And now, we have three locations after that opening restaurant and staying in the street until today. So, probably going to be almost like 15 years coming in New Year. Wow, it's crazy. And did you guys meet in Thailand or did you meet when you went to Toronto?
We met in Thailand. Yeah, we met in Thailand. That was 2001 and I was backpacking. And that was my first time backpacking and someone in Bangkok, I was like, where should I go in Thailand?
And they said, everywhere is amazing, but Pi is the best. So, I'm like, right, I'm going to hit it up. So, I went down south first and eventually I went up north and I went to Pi and fell in love with the town and bumped into Nui. Wow.
That made us excited. So, I'm sorry, we obviously want to talk a lot about certainly in philosophy behind cooking, but Jeff, just because this is the story, so you're just backpacking with it. Was there any thing at one point that you're also going to be in the restaurant business? Like, do you have any background in that?
No, not at all. I just love to eat, but I never come about it. I took graphic design and a bit of marketing in school. So, eventually I was able to use that, but no, I had no intention on getting into the restaurant business.
Right. And so, your first restaurant was in Thailand. And at some point, obviously, you decided that you were going to give up the nursing and maybe move more into the cooking. Like, that was a very difficult decision.
What did your family think about that? Oh, it's a very hard decision for my family, especially my step back then. He didn't even talk to me for a year. Oh, really?
What are you doing? He said, you went to school to be a nurse. You was a nurse. So, you can be a nurse in Canada already.
I asked the exam, but don't you go back to do nursing. Why would you stay in the kitchen? That is not a job. He said it to me.
And I was like, well, you know, nothing I love at heart, but cooking I also love as well. And how much people appreciate Thai food and the cooking that I cook and bring it out to the dining room. So, it just makes so much difference. And I'm very enjoying and loved to do that as well.
So, it is very hard at the beginning because they're not accepted that become a chef is a career here in Canada, because, you know, like everyone can cook back home, right? But then to run a business at the beginning, also, it's very tough and it's a very hard industry to enter in. So, I wasn't able to buy my step back. But my mother, however, she's very supportive.
She said, what do you love to do? You know, you can do it. And she's my full support. Well, it seems like seeing how this all worked out, she was right.
So, when you're opening your first restaurant is in Thailand, I'm always interested in this because you're doing Thai food in Thailand, right? And so, just like everybody else, like you said, everybody knows how to cook there, whatever. How do you get your restaurant to stand out in that situation? So, this is kind of where my marketing background kind of came in.
So, we first both worked at her aunt's restaurant. So, when I was going back and forth, I went back and I was working at her aunt's restaurant. And then, you know, the food was amazing because I knew it was cooking. But I was like, doesn't just kind of come together.
So, when we finally decided to open our own, I'm like, let me come up with the concept and, you know, the atmosphere. And so, what I did was kind of pull back from, you know, the cooler we're trying to attract, we're trying to attract me, basically, like, people who are walking around with a backpack looking for certain dishes or whatever. So, I kind of catered like the whole atmosphere to attract someone like myself. So, we called it the curry shack.
At that point, most of the backpackers were from, you know, England. So, I was like, again, you know, to go for a curry was a very common thing. So, I was like, let's just get straight to the point called the curry shack. Her curry is where the best I've ever had.
Oh, thank you. It all kind of made sense. And then, you know, like, I was thinking of music wise, like, you know, there's classic rock all over the place, which I love. There's reggae all over the place, like, you know, Bob Marley, Peter Todchansa, which I love.
But there's no hip hop. So, I'm like, if I can maybe play my 90s hip hop and see, like, if there's people like me who are like, I want to hear something else, that's kind of what we did. So, we kind of created this atmosphere that was more catered to, you know, that was very specific. Right.
Yeah. Well, that's a great way to stand out. And it sounds like obviously your marketing background did come into play there because you were very targeted to like thinking about, okay, who was mostly traveling here? Those are the people we need to attract.
When you decide to move to Canada, like, obviously, you had been thinking about that before, because you were talking about doing maybe moving here to be a nurse, right? So, like, so was that always in the back of your mind that Canada was the place to come? And once you got here, how difficult was it to get your own business open again? Oh, it's so different.
I have no idea how Canada going to be because I'm never thought I'm going to leave Thailand. So, dating with Jeff for four years, and then we got married after that and taking a year before I move over here, you know, like, I never thought I'm going to run a restaurant and become successful with a chef because I always know that I want to become a nurse and I still make a rehab opportunity to get in that and Jeff have pieces that we as a family have to work together. So, then I said, I created my own job, I was studying to do my nursing exams, so then I started to enter to do the restaurant. And then after that, that back then was like 23 seed restaurants and I take out, but you know, the first year and half is very, very hard because there's not much of the people knowing us, we opened a restaurant in a recent park where there's very little people walking on the streets, you know, back then, it's still lots of like area that people don't want to enter to that area because of, you know, like a different part of Toronto.
So, having very little about business, but because we have a great product, so we never give up and push through the year and a half in the second year. So, after that, I remember we I entered to a commission and a food, why and I chef of 2009, I won the competitions and over the now magazine and now people start to know there is some Thai food that's very delicious in recent park. So, then it set us to have a long live outdoor and from that time on nonstop. Yeah, well, I think for those of you listening who aren't Canadian, then don't earn up from the late with Toronto now magazine is kind of a big deal in Toronto, like it's like a free paper essentially that gives concert listings and talks about local restaurants and bars, etc.
So, yeah, that would be a big award to win, obviously. I'm curious about because I've obviously opened a couple of a few places in Kitchenerwater, Lu area and it can be a real pain in the ass, frankly, with dealing with the city, etc. So, I'm sort of interested in the differences between opening a place in Thailand and opening a place in Toronto. Harder, easier, how would you?
Oh, it's very easy in Thailand, you know, you can check, yeah, it's just like you have a table, you have a gas stove, therefore you can just apply to open a restaurant. So, I have to worry about it. So, food can be that we have to check, there's no lots of different rules, which is like we have a minimum standard where you have to meet the requirement for all the handwasting or washroom and etc. I mean, all with the, you know, the cook have to learn and have to pass the test, how to cook, and it means like the hygiene, that's what it is in Thailand.
But here it's so different, it's like, it took us six months before we opened our first restaurant and, you know, like the latest restaurant that we opened, it took us two years to build because it happened to land in between of a pandemic as well and the high-decadalocation that we opened at Young Eglingsen where it take like a 13,000 square feet and that is like, the kitchen is like a take a mile of like all the system and everything we have to just like I myself is like, if you're talking about the difference between open a restaurant here in Canada and in Thailand, definitely Thailand is the best place to open a restaurant. Yeah, I think it's time for me to move. So Jeff again, like now you're, you sort of move into, now you're opening restaurants, you thought maybe we're going to do something in marketing, obviously that very much can transfer to helping to promote your spots in Toronto. Now you got to now magazine thing, how do you use your marketing sort of resources to promote the restaurant source as it sort of happened organically?
I say it's kind of organic, like we kind of, just kind of stumbled upon things that kind of work. Basically when we've done from the start, it's just everything's been genuine. Yeah. You know, like it's more of, and that's the kind of lesson I learned in Thailand is just cater to something 100%, you know, and then if people like it, they'll love it rather than trying to make something that's good for everybody where everyone just likes it.
Right. So we really tried to stick to what we believed in like truly and what we, you know, we're experts in and what we loved and we just stuck to that the entire time and you know, obviously the food is what people came but they, you know, just the entire experience is what they really talked to be genuine. Yeah. Yeah.
It's super important. I had to learn that lesson a hard way to do like the first place that I opened, I found that like I was trying to cater to so many different groups of people and you find yourself doing too much and then it's like, well, you're not really doing anything very well, right? So if you focus on what you like the group of people you're trying to bring to your establishment and just be like, okay, this is what we do well. People will find out about it and they will like it, right?
But you got to target a smaller community because you can't please everybody. Yes. And then eventually like what, you know, we were very lucky and you know, blessed that once we targeted that small community, that small community started doing all the talking, right? I've been seeing everyone that this is a fun place and you know, it really worked out.
Yeah. And so now you guys are up to three spots. We have a first of all time it has three locations in Toronto and then we open Pyres Ron where I will back ship right now. So in downtown Toronto at Duncan and other street, which is a 350C restaurant.
It's yeah, it's also like, you know, a place where me and Jeff were thinking how to bring Py Thailand to Py Toronto where we bring the wife of like a very layback atmosphere to food is more specific to not in Thai cuisine where I came from. So I have a lot of many items that from the not in Thailand and then we still be true. I genuinely enjoy ourselves, you know, like with a recipe that not compromise or I import lots of spices and like a train my team in the kitchen. And yeah, from that time on, it's been eight years and we have the second location at Young Eggington and we do take our location three locations in one in Etobicoke, one in Casapil and the other one at the King West area.
Oh, well, that's crazy. Congratulations. Thank you. So and then now you are in addition to doing all of this.
You're an executive chef at somebody else's restaurant. Yes, like a partnership with my business partner, that is really from Py where they opened they have a business where like I do a club in Greenville Friday and Saturday and then they're restaurant that they have to post out because of all the pandemic and all the team that left. So then they opened their party also then they ordered food from Py and after that they was like, well, we have the empty kitchen here. But don't you come into cooking as a processor to serve to the party also at the time I thought that's well, it's going to be easier for us because the food is safe fresh and very nice.
So I came in to cook in the bring some of my team to cook at the kitchen. And you know, because back then when during pandemic, we need to do like a six-year part. So have extra kitchen, it helps for the team. So after that, then when they take out, patio is into the winters and then they move into the indoors.
So they ask me like they are interested to cut it up and they transform the whole restaurant to be immersive with the art. So at the time, and I felt very strong to bring in the new like food that I create. So it took me a week also to come up with all the new menu items and I trained my team and we put it up in a restaurant named Sauva, where it's immersive of the not Latin American style of the food. You know, I get to create and I get to enjoy a different part of my chef career where I growing up on a Thai restaurant, Thai chef, most of the time, even though I cook food for my kids at home, but you know to be able to create something for a restaurant, it just like it has a lot of challenge and I enjoy doing it.
Nice. That's amazing. I don't know how you handle all doing all this stuff. I'm trying to run two spots and then I feel exhausted all the time.
So when did you start getting all the work on the sort of these reality shows? Like how did that come to be? Well, I actually started to enter to like a 2013, you know, one of the guests, Chef on Massa Chef Canada and then after that, you know, like I become like a with the Thai chef that I very stay true to my like it was cuisine, you know, like a lot of something that people don't really understand how to cook Thai food. So I have all the answers.
That is why I be part of the WAP Chef season one in season two and then we mean, Jeff were on our top chef Canada last season for one of the episodes that we will get a judge for that and they did a takeout war. Yeah, that's perfect. We brought this to judge their takeout concept. Yeah, during the pandemic, lots of takeout Thai food is very great in the stand right because we able to stay now to food through our kitchen, even though the dining cross so that allow us to keep our team intact together and opening up after the pandemic.
So I opening up our fighting, not fighting, it's more like a refi food, which is the car, royal type of thing, inspiration, keen restaurant by doing a COVID be closed for almost two years. And that one is sickest restaurant. So I need about eight to 10 of my kitchen team, but I always have three. So that's why I just like, you know, having them working at a sauwa or a Thai to keep them alive with the team.
And before I can expand more of my team to train and we just opened like four months ago. Oh wow. With the chasing menu. That's crazy.
Yeah. When do you sleep? And she dreams about work when she sleeps. As long as your team did with you for a number of years, the oil.
That's the only way we can do this is we these with people. And I'm sure you guys know that too is we never be able to do it with good people. So we are kitchen manager at Thai. The original by is has been with us for 14 years.
So is that open the first restaurant? Our general manager has been with us for about 11 or 12. Oh wow. Yeah.
So we we have a lot of great people. That's the reason why we have a lot of great people. That's impressive too. Because I find specifically in my experience that people who work in kitchen tend to be more transient, that people work in the work in the front of house.
So it's very difficult to keep like a good team of back of house people together. So that speaks a lot to you guys, obviously, as the people are that loyal. So we always kind of it's always been like a family atmosphere from the from the first restaurant. We've you know, it wasn't a plan or nothing.
It's just our personality. So we always at the end of the night, when we've done, you know, the first restaurant, we've done cooking and posting the restaurant, we just take our car and drop everyone off at the subway station. Some of them at the house, you know, and then we grow our family that way. So like a along the way.
So we always get together. We have stop meal together. We have the, you know, the month we party together until like a late night, you know, it's just like throwing up on that time until now, you know, like it's not, you know, we didn't get to party every month like before, because everyone has their own family and all that. Yeah.
I know. I remember my days departing with the staffer behind me. Okay. So maybe we talk a little bit about the sort of year philosophy about cooking, Chef.
And like you say that you're sort of influenced obviously about the Northern Thai style of cooking. So how is that different than sort of other Thai cooking that maybe explain to our listeners? Well, not in Thai, it's a have a very similar to regular Thai scene where we focus on our flavors, which is a very complex. So like many of us probably know that Thai food is looking at the like a, like a hot, you know, like a spicy, sour, sweet, salty, and umami.
So the Thai regular Thai restaurant, we serve a lot of puree that contain lots of coconut milk, but not in Thai, we have less coconut milk using in our good scene. So we focus on vegetable and meat and lots of steam or stew. So we have the upscale stew, we have a stir fry, we have a vegetable wrap and things like that. And also the flavor, it's a, it's a very less sweet, even talking about like compared to different part of Thailand.
And with the spice level, it just depends how people like it because some people like spicy, we have like an extreme spicy, we have Thai spicy or we have no spice at all for our Thai, let's say, by example, like that. So the philosophy is like, I will cook whatever I would cook in Thailand or people who eat in Thailand. But for the spice level, I will allow people to shoot their own spice because that is what my mom would do with. But I was young, like, if I don't like to spice it or dish that she put, she separated out and then she add on extra spice for her.
So when I grow up, my spice is going up more than I even add more extra spicy to the same dish that we cook and I eat, and I was young. So that's the way it is. And also with a lot of ingredients that I can find here, I can substitute them. I always like, try my way to import my products in from Thailand.
And if I don't have it, I'm not selling that dish. Like, for example, the pack of how a holy basil is so fried, you know, that one of them, very favorite dish eating in Thailand. So we have to use a special leaves, which is called holy basil. But most of the restaurants that sell before I opened the restaurant, they use a regular Thai basil, which is a different flavor, like a used like a coriander or pastelies or looks similar, but it's not the same.
So the flavor is totally different. So that for instance, I think the way that I try to keep very like a tradition of cooking into my Thai food that I serve at the restaurant, so that it makes it stand out from like, you know, like, sometime when I first got opened a restaurant, people talking about ketchup, katai. And I said, I never heard about that. And I use my semarine and I make everything from scratch.
But then people say, you call me out, you don't know how to cook katai. And I was like, no, I'm from Thailand. That's right. That's right.
That's not katai. It doesn't have kaschop. So therefore you don't even know how to cook it. Oh, yeah, they've been eating pad Thai from Kelsey's.
That's not the one I think. Yeah. And there was like, well, if you could catch up in your katai, so I will come to your restaurant and buy your katai now. And back then, you know, like you make 50 bucks a day, you know, you just like, in the bag of my mind was like, no, I'm not doing it.
And he added noises. But you don't make any money. So what are you going to do? But the answer to me was, no, I'm not doing that.
So I will like you to come and try my wish and apply it. Please enjoy. But I'm not going to share the way that they cook. So that's one of the philosophy for me that I say true to what tradition from like going up and a cook and what people in Thailand eat.
And that goes back to what we were talking about earlier, too, like that, like, if you stay true to what you're trying to do, then people will find you. And if you're doing it well, and you're saying true to that concept, then people, you're going to find your crowd. There's no point selling out and just trying to dumb everything down for like the grand audience, in my opinion. Is what you call the fusion of Thai food and sort of South American food?
Well, it's not a fusion of Thai food at all. It's the reason why I create this food because atmosphere itself is more like very beautiful, look like Amazon jungle that they create in here, you know, from the top to the bottom. And it's like very tropical, very, you know, like a jungle. So then I said, in Thailand, we have jungle too, you know, like the food that inspired from jungle.
And also with the beginning with like a, like a during the pandemic, I keep love to it, so like I'm cooking lots of utangos and you know, like something fun with South side with the oatmeal and all the deep that I creating and salad and grill. So that it was a starting of the restaurant and it's been a year and I was going to be like, you know, like I said, the food is just where our heart and our inspired from the art that we have in here. But now, you know, I actually came back from PI and they get a lot of seafood. And I said, you know what, it's just like, you know, some, this is a place where we do like a bring joy and bring happiness to the table.
So we have our regular in here and then many people love a vegetarian and our fish. So I said, I love it too. And I love to cook. So then I decided to do like our seafood platters and then, you know, like have some oyster in, have it fun, have people come in to have more drinks.
We have a wonderful dream in here. So that's that how the food that so is. Oh, it's amazing. Well, we thank you so much for giving us this much time.
I know you guys are super busy. So we really appreciate you coming on the show. And everyone should be checking out, give it the gift of those. There's one more time the restaurants in Toronto to check out and the locations.
Yes, we have high at 18 Duncan Street and high Yangdek Linksen. We have super Thai restaurant. We have Sawa, Richmond and Duncan. We have keen restaurant where Royal Thai in operations.
And yeah, so like, you know, come for Thai food, come for like a fun food at Sawa and like with the late light drinks. And yeah, well, thanks guys. I honestly don't know how you're pulling it off, but I'm very impressed and congratulations on all your success. And we really appreciate you giving us the time.
I get me know you're super busy. So thanks again. Thanks very much. Yeah, thanks so much.
Thank you. Thank you.