E142 Danny Posey

This week's guest is Danny Post, who joins us from Fayetteville, Arkansas. Danny has over 16 years in the industry as he's worked as a server, bartender, corporate trader, and general manager. After several years in managerial role, working 80 to 90 hour weeks in a corporate restaurant environment, Danny simplified his life and got back to bartending. Currently, Danny is the bar manager at the embedment in Fayetteville.

Over the course of the last several years, Danny's been spending more time traveling to various industry events and trade shows, such as Tales of the Cocktail, Barre Conk, then Brooklyn, Behind the Barrel, Barre Conk, Berlin, and Portland Cocktail Week. As a side project, Danny is also helping smaller brands with little to no footprint in Arkansas raise awareness of their brands and host tastings and cocktail classes for the public. Make sure you check out Danny's Instagram profile at drinkwithdanny.com. Enjoy the show.

Okay, we are back with another episode of the industry podcast. My name is Kip. I'm the host of the show, the producer, engineer, extraordinaire. To my right is Dan Soretta.

How are you? I'm awesome. No complaints. Yeah, I just got back from a trip out west.

Yeah, we did some snowboarding for a couple of days. So when hit the Rocky Mountains, I had a beautiful sun peace. I was expecting to show up here and find you in like a full length like cast. So I'm pleasantly surprised.

I just get feeling in my arm earlier today back. So that's the side of my knee is kind of working. One of them. That's a great time.

Luckily you're working a chair. Yes, thankfully. Yeah, because we're getting up from the show. The bathroom's a chore right now.

I'll put it on as a video. Okay, well, we've had a bit of a break. I think we'll be back to a relatively regular Monday schedule weekly in case you've been missing us as I'm sure you have. If you are enjoying what we're doing here on the industry podcast, what you want to do is subscribe, rate, and review the show.

That helps a great deal with our analytics and the algorithms as it were. Does that can? I'm just the man behind the artwork on our Instagram page at zackanna.co. So you're going to want to check out all of his stuff.

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There's Sugar Run downtown Kitchener to speak easy where we have a weekly comedy night and that right going on right now, Wednesday night with Olivia Stadler, who is one of the head writers on the letter Kenny. Oh, yes. So you want to check that out. That's every Wednesday.

And then of course, great cocktails there all weekend long. We actually just released a new cocktail list. So you're going to want to come check that out if you haven't been in recently. Up down Babylon Sisters wine bar.

That is the spot to be in uptown Waterloo, winding cocktails and DJ Bane every Friday night, DJ Nana last Saturday of every month. And we're also doing some art shows in there now as well with MK visuals. So check out all of that stuff. If you're in the kitchen, Waterloo area, please come by.

Say hi. I'm almost always at one of the spots drunk. Every time you leave your house pretty much. Yeah, exactly.

Okay. I think that's all we really need to chat about. Let's bring in this week's guest coming to us from Fayetteville, Arkansas, a man that I met at tells of the cocktail in New Orleans. And he was on our tells of the cocktail show.

So you should check that out in the archives if you haven't listened to that one yet. Danny Posey is joining us last time I saw you was at pay shows. Yeah, we never showed. Yeah, it was quite an experience.

The guy I don't know if they just didn't realize that it's a pretty well known cocktail bar in New Orleans and it was during tales of the cocktails. There might be a few fucking bartenders there. The drinks were good, but there was one guy working and he was very overwhelmed. So Danny and I did our whole interview there at the table without getting a drink and we had to take our drinks to go, which luckily you can't do in New Orleans.

Yeah, but the drinks were good. Absolutely. Yeah, they did it right. So shout out to pay shows if you're ever in New Orleans.

I'm sure they're normally regularly staffed. The question was what do we put them in? Classic up. And like a laden stuff or just not like this walk out?

No, and it was raining. We got about that. Okay. So you rained every day?

I feel like? Yeah, I did. That was weird. Like, but it was always in like spurts.

Like it was almost like you were in the Caribbean where like you it would like rain pretty hard for like 30 minutes and then it would be fine and then hours go by and then it would rain again for like 30 minutes pretty hard. But anyway, that was a fun time and it's good to see you again Danny. How was things been since I last saw you? And then there's more traveling.

I'm really getting so in. So not sure what this week is going to bring. You're getting snowed in. Well, it's like the same.

It's like a seven to eight inches of uglation overnight. No shit. Do you guys even have snow services? Not really.

It's hard to hold your own tree. That's about it. No, this should work out well. We're supposed to get a massive storm here tonight, but we're used to it.

Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, let's let's start right there. You have been doing a lot of traveling around.

Obviously, and you mentioned your bio when you send it over as well, but I noticed from your Instagram page. Oh, let's just start right there. Tell people where to follow you on Instagram. I had a drink with Danny.

I had a drink with Danny and I follow you. So I was checking. I've noticed a lot of you've been doing hitting up a lot of the cocktail and bartender shows all over the country. Yeah, man.

It started with the Las Vegas Expo last year. And then did that had a hell of a time just meeting people trying to do spirits out. Actually, that's something we brought back to my bar, which was kind of cool. But actually, I guess connect with Elaine, answer that on the show.

And she told me that's on the cocktail. In researching that, I discovered bar content Brooklyn, which is a smaller two day trade show, but longer hours. Yeah. Yeah.

So I was trying to hit that one up as well, but it didn't end up working out. How is that one? It's so fun. It's so much of the Vegas one just kind of dialed down a little bit.

A little more educational opportunities in there, which was one day I was over the four children's excited to be able to sit in on. That's a part of two different app or two classes, which was something my knowledge base was next and nothing on. So at what point did you decide that this was like, so you went to the Vegas show and it was that sort of, okay, this is a cool thing. You can learn a lot.

You can try a bunch of different drinks. It's a fun time. It's also gonna be educational. And then that was sort of what got you into maybe hitting up a bunch of these other shows that were different reasons why you decided to dedicate yourself to some of these things.

I've always had a passion for traveling and not being home. Right. But just had the opportunity to do some of these jobs. I was down to being in the restaurant.

It was a person we got two weeks vacation per year. So just my boss allows me to play some of these travel. I mean, some of my dollars, but I get the money in the time. Yeah.

Yeah. And those shows are fun, but they can also be educational as well. The one thing I just discovered is you just got to take it easy during the day at somebody's trade show. Yeah.

Yeah. You don't necessarily tell me it's okay to throw drinks away. It's okay to just have a couple of sips, but it's a side. Yeah.

So I was like, I'm not sure doing 20, 30 drinks a day. There's no way. So I learned the hard way at the Vegas show. I remember coming out the first day of the convention center and it was like, I was just absolutely wasted.

And I'm like, what time is it? It was like 2 p.m. I'm like, Oh my God. It's like blazing hot outside.

Oh, yeah. That was definitely a big thing. I did my last day of Vegas taking shots at Polsok. You've been trying just one after the other day.

I'm very sure you're done with the product. So I'm interested in the scene in Fayetteville. I've never been to Arkansas. I know nothing about it.

The bar that you work at now is called the amendment. Correct. Yeah. So that's the sort of the craft I've seen at all in Fayetteville.

So my bar's kind of a weird hybrid. We're in a university town. So the downtown area does cater mostly to the college clientele. I'm just, I mean, that's what the money is.

It's a little different. We got a rooftop patio. So that's very popular with the kids. But I also have probably one of the better with these lessons of town.

These are content in you, but also, you know, $2.50. Well specials. Oh, yeah. Right.

So that's going to bring in the student crowd for sure. Yeah. In the last year and a half, I've kind of redone the cocktail program. It was kind of non-existent when I started there.

I remember when I first started there. I know that's the biggest thing. I don't even worry about, you know, learning these recipes. No, I don't know.

I don't know if he's in the shit anyway. Yeah. When you got to do 50 wells, yes, because why would they? Yeah.

No, I suppose you know I wanted to push a heater. Right. What's the school that's at Fayetteville? The university department is off.

Oh, okay. So it's the Razorback. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

That's a big one. Yeah. Massive kind of college football town. And I guess college basketball as well.

Oh, yeah. basketball, basketball and baseball are kind of our two big draws. Oh, really? More than football.

I mean, it's like party is actually really good to basketball in baseball. Yeah, yeah. We've all seen her miss. Gotcha.

Okay, so in the city in general, it's mostly like college down, lots of cheap drinks. So what is, what are some of the challenges of trying to introduce like a higher end cocktail program and in like basically a grip and rip college? Really that price, I mean, you know, these kids are always looking for Jill. They're coming in, you know, midnight on Saturday, like, Hey, what's your special?

What do you have on deal tonight? Right. Just, you know, for us, it's making sure we have those meetings out at all times, like their friends sitting around the bar. So when you approach, we don't have a lot of sales, we don't have cocktail servers.

It's complete bar search. You go up, you order from us, we make your drinks and walk away. We're in one of those weird states where we don't have to serve food to have like an on purpose license. Oh, is that right?

Yeah, that's my dream. I would do this. Nice. I just do service for the bulk of my career.

Sorry about kitchens and cooks and, you know, food. It's just so nice. Yeah, you kind of grew up in the sort of corporate world of bars and restaurants, right? So talk to us a little bit about like, well, we've obviously talked to a million people who've done that on this show, well, a million 140, whatever.

But one thing we always get from most of those people who started and sort of that corporate version of the bar service, the service industry is that like it's great for learning a bunch of services and teaching your organization and all of that. But then there's challenges with it as well. It'd be like a lack of ability to do any creative et cetera. Would you find the same thing?

Oh yeah. I mean, like I think for the experience I can have, like to definitely give you structure, which I bars really need to be able to have to have background. Yeah, like you said, I mean, it's like I knew they wanted you know, this is more to me if it wasn't on me, you know, I'm sorry. I'm not making it for you.

Yes, I have an espresso machine. Yes, I have vodka. Oh, really? And then you and I don't have a way to bring it in properly.

It's because there's so focused on like property and it's all good. It's like, well, it has to be exact. interesting to talk about the service industry. Let's just talk and flesh that out a little bit, because in bars like mine, you obviously have to still do inventory and you have to keep track of where the booth is, because we all know it's very easy for some employees to steal from you.

But in a craft cocktail style bar, there's going to be tons of stuff that's not going to get accounted for, even if everyone's doing everything on the level, whereas in the corporate structure, they're looking for everything to be accounted for at all times. What are your feelings of what the differences between those two sort of organizational structures? I think the way our system works is we have two or three up-charge buttons, so it's just a miscellaneous spirit category. So you'll say this is what you want us to do, it's two else for it, and it'll fast-versing, you'll say, do one of add-ups for it.

We'll just say that I'm charged by more. If we're doing a multi-spirit thing, then we'll charge for it. One of the most expensive bases, and then just add that up-charge, and then we'll get reported just as a note, like, 120-ounce-sulter, whatever it is. Right, which is, I think there's no way, there's no way to do it at a cocktail bar, but like, clean from an artist perspective as well, I just know that that's shit that's not really accounted for.

I don't know if I can booz or use it in that situation, right? It's just like, any booze, up-truch. So I think that's what makes this one of the most unique sort of businesses around, because you can't, like, I remember I went to the place where all of a sudden the GM changed, and they had like an ownership group, and one of the minority owners was a GM, and then all of a sudden her brother was, and her brother came from the propane industry, where everything is very exactly accounted for, right? And coming to the bar, he was just baffled by how the numbers didn't align every single fucking time and didn't understand spillage, didn't understand, like, overpour or foaming up of draft, and all of the things that you can't account for.

Yeah, you brought up spillage, like, one of the records I worked in, we didn't have a spill tap. Let's say that, you know, I'm halfway through pouring a beer, and the keg blows, or, you know, a server accidentally knocks over the martini. Yeah, that's just, I mean, that's two ounces of alcohol just lost right there. There's no way to account for it.

Right, and like, he would try and charge us back for it, which was fucked, man. I used to come in, like, I would work Wednesday to Saturday, and I'd come in on Wednesday, and I'd, like, before I'd started my shift, I already owed $150. Like, what was fucking nuts? I know, right?

So it is a very unique business in that, in that specific sense, in many senses, but that one specific thing, and that's why I always find, like, people who don't know anything about the service industry have never worked in, and they're like, fuck it, I'm gonna open a bar. I drink it, bars. I know what it is. And I always find those people.

It's not like every other business. If you have never done it, then at least hire someone who has, it's crazy. You also like, ran a bunch of these places as a GM, right? Yeah.

So what made you decide to give up on that, and then kind of take a step back and go back into like, your roots of being a bartender? Honestly, it was the stress and lack of freedom. Right. Like, yeah, you know, I'm working 80, 90 hours a week.

I'm doing too much off. You're all those open to closes without getting compensated for it. Right. Yeah.

My life was working. It was, I mean, it was starting to wear on me. Like, my middle health suffered like physically. I was just terrible.

You know, I'm eating it's 1 a.m. That's my middle day, because I just worked 15 hours and I was the manager on duty and also being like cashier and maybe a food runner as well. And I kind of took it. It was just too much.

Yeah. You could kind of have to know how to do all the jobs and you're going to be pressed to do them at all points, right? Yeah. Yeah.

And honestly, I just want to go in and cluck in my money and plug out of here at the end of it. And you now we're in a place where you have a little bit of creativity as well, right? Yeah. So I ended up better for you.

Honestly, I'm making about 25% more than I was a salary GM. So right. Yeah. You want to know.

Middle management sucks, man. Like I would say, like, I would say, like, because I've done that job. I've done all the jobs, like, but the best jobs are either like just you own the spot or you are the bartender there. Like, all the other jobs got stuck.

Yeah. Right. So when you, at what point did you start thinking that you wanted to try your competitions? It actually started last year.

Oh, really? So very recently. Yeah. So I think my first one I did, everything I've done so far has been online.

Okay. A huge, like cocktail scene or bartender community. So most of it have been through like Instagram or with like the children 100 that they've sponsored by brands. First one I did was with Ryan fruit snacks.

They were trying to get their snacks like, you know, it's what brought audience, right? Because they're dehydrated fruits. Yeah. So the only situation was you had a feature, they're product of your drink.

Right. So that's pretty open. Yeah. That's pretty open.

Yeah. I mean, it'll be great learning specifically. I just use their dry teaches and make a fan and use the garnish and then you know, you know, when the competition, they were infusing their spirits with these things. One of them took it and ran it through a food processor and use it as a rim.

Oh, wow. So all this competition for you did more learning experience. Like, yeah, you know, the $100 or $500 worth of cash prize would be nice, but just being able to develop my skill set. Right.

And so do you take some of these concepts and bring it back to your own bar and try some of them out or like, we all borrow, right? So yeah. Yeah. And so you were mentioning that you, your bar in Fayetteville has an amazing whiskey selection.

Is that because of you? Have you stocked that up? No, no, that was well before me. My bar's been around, I think, 14 years now.

Oh, okay. There's always been kind of their focus. When you walk in, it's wood paneling, almost like library style shelves, huge ladder. Oh, nice.

Program called the whiskey club. So we selected a 56 of our whiskey's off there. I kind of, you know, try the hard of you and then once you complete that list that we keep, you get your apply on the wall with your name. Okay.

Cool. I have worked kind of updates, you know, post-COVID distribution list up everywhere, especially in the burden category for somebody's like, didn't get anything really kind of about half of our burdens out as a replaceable kind of like newer training burdens. What are some of the newer training ones? I'm like, I used to be very involved in the whiskey scene, especially in my first bar, but I've kind of, I've discovered that whiskey in me don't mix that well.

So I was also at home, but I can't drink it when I'm out. So, like what is my little bit of the scene? Like the last whiskey, the first one was the last bourbon that was sort of new when I was getting into it, what I was really into it, sorry, that I still take as one of the top ones ever, so I was Angel's envy. But I have not like, I basically out of the same sense.

So what are some of the hot new Bourbons or any kind of whiskey that you're bringing into the bar? Well, my first favorite is Rannibal. My favorite is still right now. So we got into their expressions with most of our students being from most of the Dallas, over there and then various other parts of Texas, we had an TX.

So a TX based whiskey, we got a head and store, Penelope trying to focus more on those kind of mid range, some not necessarily your brown form of products or your, your product, or anything like that. But I'm not trying to push, you know, happy and bluntons and all these complicated things. Yeah, they don't need your help. You're kind of in the middle, I think, you know, 10 to 20 dollar force of whiskey.

Yeah, and it's good to like support those sort of independence distilleries, right? Like, because like you meant like talking about brown form and energy or whatever, again, they don't really need your help pushing those but like do you smaller distilleries? They do need the help. Yeah, I mean, nothing.

I mean, I'm really one of the major brown form like Woodford I daily, you know, poor. Yeah, they've got the infrastructure to support themselves. Right, exactly. That's a major classroom billboards and magazines and what have you.

I should have a question about how do you take your liquor down in Arkansas? Like various American guests, it's always like state by state laws. So down in Arkansas, is it state-owned liquor stores? Is it private liquor stores or a combination of both?

It's private owned liquor stores and it's depending and you've got two different license type from Curtis. Oh, so if you're a restaurant with food service, you know, one license, if you have no food service like my business, I was like, my business, you have a set of license. So with mine, I actually cannot legally go through a distributor. I have to purchase from a liquor store.

Oh, weird. With a food service license, you have to go through a distributor and cannot purchase from a liquor store. That sounds like a law from the 1945. Yeah, one of the South bandits, you're not being sucked.

Oh, we have like some of these as well, like we only were allowed to do off sales this when the pandemic is because they were thrown us a bone. So there was no selling booze at the door for the entire time. Yeah. And plus we have all of our stores, our company, our government, our hours were crapped through the longest time.

They're in the 1800s. But it's interesting talking like Dan mentioned, talking to people from all over the US now because it's weird. It's totally state by state about what you can do. But that law specifically, you're talking about seems so antiquated.

Yeah, it kind of has been a bit of a say, so we're not going to get retail prices with a little bit of price break. But also, I'm not tied down to one establishment. Right. Okay.

If you're sales rep from XYZ distributor, because you still have to deal with it. Well, whereas now you always because that's the only place that you get like a traveling in that area. Right. Right.

Like a store guy because I'll just go down the street to the next one and pick it up. Right. Fair enough. There's going to be a dollar or two differences across the board.

So it's not costing that much money. Right. So like going forward, are you looking to do more competitions? Are you still are you looking to do more traveling around to go to more of these sort of conferences and shows?

Or are you just pretty much like, how are you going to use your free time going forward now? What's your main concentration? Because like you mentioned that you're happy right now, just making your money and going home and using it to do all this sort of self education, all the above. Yeah.

Okay. Very nice. I just received the model of gin and I'm starting to do a competition for it with still a Sire's Gig. I'm going to be working on that for the next couple weeks.

If that's submitted, I've got five to six industry related things on my calendar already. It's more trips. Yeah, you got more trips weekend in San Diego, followed by the Vegas Expo and then Brooklyn and the Tails again and the Portland Cottoey trying to just never put people through starting a Canadian whiskey certification with a David and Gina Vosset from Iron marker. That's a kind of intense today, week for a four week program.

And it'll kind of concern my own side gig with trying to help smaller brands. Things that don't have quite as a brand or even it exists in the state to get some recognition whether it's taking liquor stores or hosting it at my bar or things like that. Right. Yeah.

I was a, every time I go to these sort of conferences, bartending conferences, whatever you like, I always find like, you meet so many amazing people who are like promoting so many amazing brands that you've never heard of before. And I'm always like, well, let me see if I can help bring you into Ontario. And it's just like, every time I try that, because I get so excited about the brands. And then, but then every time I try and bring them in, just like for Ontario, it's such a roadblock because you have to go through the local control board of Ontario.

And it's almost like a fucking stop sign at all times. So I get frustrated and then I'm like, oh, I got to stop going to these conferences. I mean, I felt so amazing for other last year. And you talked to the brand, talked to the owner, whoever's there to do their stuff, the other whole thing.

And it's like, oh, we're not in Arkansas yet. Right. Yeah. It's just a constant thing for us is, yeah, I can imagine what can I do to help get into Arkansas?

Right. And like, I feel for these distillaries too, because if you kind of sell out to a distribution company, then, and you're not like one of their big, like, if it's like, say you got bought it by a day actually or whatever, right? Well, you're gonna be so low on their list of shit to push. Like, you almost need to be with like a boutique style distributor so that they actually focus on what you had to offer as a smaller distillery.

And it's the same in the wine business, right? That's a really easy wine. Okay. Wine selection at my bar is photobots.

I have a variety of other products. All of the box. Well, there's nothing wrong with box lines, especially when you're camping. Makes my life easy.

Yeah. But but you would be the situation with like a small distillery. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And like, I don't know, it's like, I'm frustrated just watching it. Like as a consumer. So I can't even imagine how frustrating it must be for like the actual distillers.

Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, it's pretty much money trying to get out there. And then, you know, they've got an amazing product. They just don't have a way to do people's hands.

Exactly. So one of the things we've been discussing more recently on the show is like, because I've just been trying to get my head around like, what is the ceiling for the craft cocktail game? Like how far do we've gone too far or are we, there's no, there's no further to go? You know, I've had John knows the philosophy, which is listen to your episodes.

I don't know where it is. I feel like right now it's taking a very culinary approach. Yeah. It's something I have absolutely no experience in.

And again, being more than that's a food. I don't even have access to that. You know, burners and blenders and what have you to do these. But it's almost like the after all two or about the showmanship and the appearance and the actual ingredients.

Yeah, I agree. And I think I take, you know, water in the shittiest fucking spirit, makes it together. But as long as it's pretty, it has this nice foam on top and you know, this beautifully crafted tin-scent edible garnish. Yeah.

No, you're kind of making my point because I'm just like, feel as much as that stuff looks great on Instagram and it looks great on the TV or whatever. Like, at what point are the guests going to be like, you know what, I just want a well-crafted cocktail that doesn't take 45 minutes to mate. Right. Like, I'm drinking, I'm not trying to take pictures of this isn't, it's a word of art a different way.

Yes. And then the pain as well as it's meant to be consumed and enjoy that way, not visually. Right. But part of the problem too is so many people now, like even my wife, like we can't go out to dinner before, I'm not allowed to eat anything until pictures have been taken of all the food for Instagram.

And it's the same with, so I think that that has kind of become the situation in the cocktail game as well where people are snapping photos of it for Instagram and they care less about what the fucking drink tastes like than what it looks like. Yeah. I don't know what you're doing that too, but mine is worth it on. Like, I'll just eat ingredients when I'm at another bar.

Like, you know, I'll see my guy here at XYZ bar, like, you can make this amazing cocktail. This is what's in it. Yeah. So, it's a bit of memory and not it's, ooh, look, it's pretty.

Right. Yeah, you are good at that. I noticed that on your account and I, like, I always appreciate that as like someone who owns bars and whatever. Like, you're very supportive of going to other places, wherever you are, wherever you have, wherever you have your traveling or even if it's in your hometown there.

And like, saying I had this cocktail, this is what's in it's amazing. Here's the bartender in maybe. I, I, more people need to be doing so like that. So thank you.

I guess, I mean, I, I don't know what's competing with me. Right. There are like nearby bars that would be somewhat competition, but those bars aren't competition with me. It's business or business.

That's not over. It's the financials. Like, I want you to do well, but you'll be able, right? Right.

And, and honestly, as a bar owner, like that's to be the situation with the owners as well, because the more bars in a certain area, specific area in the city that are good, the better for everybody, because nobody hangs out in the same bar all night anymore. Yeah, if you know your bars packed, I'm not waiting 20 minutes to go drink. I'm just supposed to extort. Yeah.

And that's a good thing. I would, you just want people to, you want people to come down to my thing about this too, is like, is there going to be a, a guest backlash at some point, where they're just like, fucking just make me a well-crafted cocktail, do it in a reasonable amount of time. I don't really care what it looks like. Or are we now stuck in this realm where there's so much about like, for anyone, like, I got, and not to diverse too much.

But like, if I'm looking around my bar on any given night, there's always somebody who's just taking pictures of themselves in the bar where they're at the fucking drink that they got, the food that they got. And it's like, I'm like, are you enjoying any of what's happening here? Or is it just to prove that you were there and this is what you drank and this is what you ate? Oh, yeah.

Thank you. Right. They're like, this younger generation, they've grown up with technology and social media in their hands. I mean, you know, they had an Instagram, a half in the time they were seven, they're on TikTok.

Like it's, for them, it's almost a secondary world they're living in, then matter of what they're doing, as long as it's cash on Instagram, right? Or, I mean, that's the first time it matters. Yeah. And like, so, and this is kind of what I've been struggling with, and like, maybe I'm using the show as therapy now, but like, but like, are we at the point where there's going to be a backlash where people eventually just like, I just want to drink again, or are we pass a point in no return where because of the younger generation, it's always going to be about the aesthetics and less about the quality of the product.

I don't know, man. Yeah. Maybe it's both. Maybe.

Or goes back around to where, you know, we're not worried about smoking years, but we're making more craft drinks. So using quality garnishes, so it looks nice. Right. But I'm not going to sound five minutes and not 45.

Right. Yeah. It's the taste of credit. Well, and that's the thing.

Like, I'm sure you've experienced it too, but I can't tell you how many times I've gone into a place over the last couple of years, whether it was at one of these conferences or just a cocktail bar in my area or in Toronto or wherever, where I've gotten one of these incredible looking drinks. And then I tasted it and it was just like, I'm not going to say it tasted like shit, but it just also didn't taste like. Yeah, exactly. You want you want the flavor to blow your mind, right?

Like, be like, wow, what an amazing, well, that was cocktail. Not just boy, did that look good. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Did you watch the different way? It's a test. So you're not like, you said joy or other things other than just visually. Right.

Yes, that's exactly it. Did you watch the drink master show? I did. Yeah.

So one thing I, and you're tired to tell because we, you can't taste the drink through the fucking screen, but like, I thought they did an okay job of saying like, when the judges were coming around to judge the cocktails, they did judge it on appearance, but like in the presentation, but they also did were like drinking them be like, that's well-balanced or this was not well-balanced. And there's like, you fucked up now, who's to say like, I can't, like we can, like, again, we couldn't taste it through the screen. So who knows if they actually taste it good or not? But it's kind of why we've been sort of promoting that show on our show is because I think that they've kind of pulled it off the idea that the drink has to look at it, but it also has to taste good.

Yeah. I mean, I love that. I'm actually friends with the few that's around the audience, meet them on my travels. But my biggest thing with that show was I felt like it was a very niche group of artists.

I mean, they have this like strong culinary background, right? I never got to make on the show. I'd be on the one. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't access to those techniques to work to videos. Right. No, you are right about that.

And like even the couple that we've had on the show here, both had strong culinary backgrounds, right? And like, yeah, now I don't know if that's because this is the trend in bartending or is that because that makes for a more visually interesting program? I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I just wonder if like a whole cooking aspect of it. I think I've learned more casual viewers, right?

Like other cooking shows, right? Yeah. And so like someone like you who's never really done that kind of salad bartending is that, is that like, do you find that like the whole back sort of cooking aspect of it? There's more entertaining?

Totally. It makes more relatable. Because you know, those flavors are like, right? Because if someone says, Hey, here's, you know, whatever some chin flavor, whatever the alcohol flavor is like, if you relate it to certain food items, stuff, you'll go, okay, and what that tastes like, right?

Because everybody eats every day, but not everyone drinks any day. What? I know. Like it almost gives a false sense of expectations.

Yes. Just seeing that there's what 12 bars across the country, they're all doing this. So if I walk into any bar in Idaho or Georgia or Montana, that's what I'm expecting. Right.

And that's what they're doing. People from across the country and they're all doing the same thing. So why aren't you doing this? Yeah, there's probably like 100 bars in the city, what reality is the item or?

Right. There's probably 100 bars in the fucking world that actually do that style of a program, right? Like most, most bars that you can, like even like great cocktail bars are not doing that sort of culinary approach. No, I mean, it's inefficient.

Yeah. I mean, unless you're, unless you're prepping all day, but then that's like as a bar holder, I'm like, I'm not fucking paying for that. Yeah. Or less or charging $30 to $50 a cocktail.

Yeah, just account for, well, I'm only getting three out an hour, but I'm still making $150 per hour. It's just one person, you know, right? Yeah. Like, for instance, like I went to, like I've been to bar chef several times, who had the one judge on that show as the owner of bar chef in Toronto.

And that's the experience there. Quite frankly, it's like you come in, like don't come in there if you're looking to get drunk. That's for sure. Because you're going to pay $30 to $40 for a drink and you're probably going to wait 45 minutes to get it.

Like, yeah, and they're great when you get them. Like, visually amazing. And for sure, it's not points balanced wise, but it's also like, I don't know, like there's a time and a place for that. It's like going to a fine dining restaurant, but you're not doing it on a daily basis, right?

Right. You have to go in there too. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

I don't know. I just, I'm just like really trying to get my head around where we're going with this whole cocktail thing in the future. Like, what is the future of it? Because the future of it is just visually stunning cocktails that take a long time to make.

Then I don't think that's a feasible business proposition. What do we take completely different person? Like, you can get your fashion design majors in a program because they're all about visual remarketing, you can do the right cocktail program. That's right.

Yeah. You know, balancing your flavor profile, or anything as long as it looks good. Yeah. Like, I just think the amount of labor that goes into making some of these garnishes, to prepping the whole culinary side of it, like, it goes back to what you said.

You have to charge so much for the drink that like, we're getting to a point where how much is the guest willing to pay for a drink? Yeah. I don't pay any. Yeah.

20 bucks, sure. Yeah. You know, if it's a rare whiskey, it's keeling out, I'm going to say that to $40-50 on four of it. Yeah.

But again, I'm not waiting 45 minutes on a meat pour or something. No, exactly. Right. It's just an easy like, you know, I'm not paying $50 on a cocktail, but I'm waiting 45 minutes on.

What's the most you've spent on a whiskey in a bar? Or a 50? Yeah. I wish I could say that.

But I've been dumber than that. I remember going to like, well, there's this day. They had this one bar in Vegas. I think that was in the MGM that there's like a whiskey bar.

It might be pretty sure it's the MGM and they like, they had Pappy and it's like, oh, it was so hard to find Pappy and it's like, you're already drunk here in Vegas. I also, there's an amazing Scotch bar at the top of the W Hotel in Minneapolis that I spent way too much on a dram for sure. But again, at least you're getting it fast. Yeah.

I mean, for me, like, what's your $50 port? My house is fine. I'm not going to be able to tell you the difference, you know, you know, 14 year or 23, you're not taking the difference. I'm adding to the same at that point to me.

Sure. I think like when you like, for me, when I produce one of those crazy lists, it's like more about the rarity. Like that's what you're paying for. You're not paying for the difference between the 14 and the 23.

You're paying for when am I ever going to see the 23 again or whatever, right? Like, so it's like, you're that's what most of what drives out the cost of spirits or wine is rarity. Oh, no, for sure. But for me, like, it's $150 port.

Don't care how here it is. I'm not saying that's my tie nice bars have right there. Yeah. You can stay rare.

All of you who else is happy. Yeah. Exactly. Well, this is awesome, Danny.

It was great catching up again. And I appreciate you coming on the show. We'll have you back for sure. Because I want to know, I want to hear what we should do is maybe a show after you go to a couple more of these shows again.

Like you've obviously sort of got it started started to plan it out. And maybe we could do like even like a you reporting from some of these conferences. That'd be a kind of a part of the weekend since San Diego. That's the middle of March.

And then right after that is biggest expo. Awesome. All right. Well, thanks for coming on.

We appreciate it. I hope you don't get snowed in tomorrow because we know you can't fucking clean it if you do. All right. Appreciate you guys.

All right. Thanks again, man. Thanks.