This week's guest is Raven Dale, so join us from beautiful Shawn again awake on Vancouver Island. Raven got her start in the industry over a decade ago while studying culinary arts and working at restaurants in Vancouver and Victoria. At the same time, Raven also studied through the W-set program to get a better understanding of the relationship between food, parings, and beverages. After spending several years in the back of the house environment, Raven eventually transitioned to the front of the house and bartending.
Raven has competed in several bartending competitions such as the IGL World Class, Speed Rack, Made With Love, and the Growny Week, just to name a few. Raven has developed a bar program at numerous bars and she is now currently the bar manager at the Lake House in Shawn again. Enjoy the show. Welcome to another episode of the industry podcast.
My name is Kip, with me as always as Dan. How's it going buddy? Still awesome, no real good points. That's not a good pile of bullshit, but no good.
How's things going with you? Things are good, no complaints? Busy? That was the month of January business wise.
January was surprisingly good. I am shocked. It's probably the best January on I can remember, which is amazing. I don't know if it's just that people are finally happy to be out again or whatever, but yeah.
It's pretty mild to January too, which makes it easier to go out. Because we only had two cold days and I was just past Friday Saturday. Right, and we were busy those days too though. I can't explain it, but I'm not complaining.
That's good. Aside from that, things are solid. Getting into February, we'll see how that goes now. But at least once solid month already, we will take it.
Recording's been all sporadically because you've been jet setting. We had the holidays. And then we had a couple of one or two cancellations. One or two cancellations?
Yeah, okay. Well, first of all, problems. Yeah, things happen. But I think we should be back mostly on schedule.
We've got a couple weeks off coming up. But generally, as always, we'll be in your feed Monday for a piano center time. Is when it drops to make sure you don't miss any. You should subscribe to the show, the industry podcast, wherever you find your podcasts.
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And he spells his name is that AK or Zac? Yeah, not that he's the H. That's right. And also, you can just find the link in our show notes as well.
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That's another great way to get a hold of us. If you're in Kitchener and Waterloo, let me tell you about a couple of cool spots to go. I own a couple bars in Kitchener and Waterloo area. One is Sugar Run, Downtown Kitchener.
That's the speakeasy. So I should run bar on Instagram to check out what's going on there at all times. We also have Babylon, Sisters, Wine Bar and Spirits, Uptown Waterloo. Babylon Sisters bar on Instagram to find what we're doing there.
We are flipping our kitchens by both spots coming up starting in March. Former guest on the show James Franco's will be taking over at Babylon Sisters. So check out what he also does a pop-up kitchen there during the days that now. It's Tuesday to Saturday, 11-3, Harper's Delly for awesome sandwiches.
And now he'll be taking over the kitchen at night as well and we're excited to see what the menu puts together. Downtown, where people familiar with the area, former Rainbow Caribbean restaurant in Downtown Kitchener, unfortunately was a COVID victim. That was one of my favorite restaurants for the last two decades. Well, let me tell you something.
Clue, who was the proprietor and the head chef at Rainbow, is now taking over the kitchen at Sugar Run. So you can come there for all the amazing shit he was doing at Rainbow is now being transferred to Sugar Run. So those are things to look out for. DJ Bain every Friday night at Babylon Sisters as well.
I don't know, anything else I need to plug? I think you covered it all. Thank you, playboarders. That's it.
The show's over, folks. I hope you enjoyed it. No, of course, we have an awesome guest as usual. Raven Dale's is joining us from under the fucking Shinnegan in British Columbia, which is just a little bit north, I guess, of Victoria.
I'm Vancouver Island. I'm Vancouver Island. Right. So Raven, how are you?
I'm doing pretty well. How are you guys doing? Doing well, doing well. Thank you.
You're doing well. You're doing well. You're doing well. So you are actually recording right in the restaurant at the work, which is the Lakeshore in Shinnegan and Raven just gave us a lake house.
A lake house, sorry. That was my house. So yeah, people should be checking out. She just gave us a little virtual tour and it is stunning.
So definitely go if you're in the Shinnegan area or just on the back of the round at all, maybe go check her out. Yeah, that's the weather like this time of the year, generally out there. Because obviously, you know, snow in the background. There's some just curious.
Well, it's kind of been all over the place today. It's been sunny and then it's rain and then it's not rain and then it's been sunny. So it's been a mix of that we did have some snow in December and then it was for about a week. Or so and then we had a little bit more snow.
I think it was last week, but it's hard. Yeah, winter normally in BC in general is just rain. A lot of rain. Yeah, that's I was we were sort of chatting before we started recording that I was up there not too long ago, visiting a friend of mine, John Goldsmith.
It was also a former guest in the show. You can check out all that stuff in our archives and we went to a bar that used to work at the wind prize. Mary. Yeah, yeah, it was a great spot.
Yeah, it was amazing. One day I did notice that when I was in on the Kewehr Island, just, you know, I guess it was back in October. It's almost like the pandemic never happened there. It definitely happened there.
It's just that everybody is so happy to be able to go out and socialize and, you know, just be around people that it does feel like it has happened. But it definitely happened in Victoria. Quite a few places shut down unfortunately and where victims to COVID and but at the same time, there were a lot of new restaurants that came out of it. A lot of people, you know, ended up leaving the hospitality industry and finding jobs elsewhere, which again didn't really help with restaurant closures and the like, but somehow we all stuck together and really pulled through.
And I would say in many ways, it's made the people in the Vancouver Island hospitality industry, especially in the bar community a lot closer and it's really awesome to see that. Mm hmm. And did you grow up on the island? I didn't.
I was born in Calgary and then I was about seven. I moved to BC and I've lived over all over, basically the lower mainland and then I moved to Vancouver Island in 2014. Okay. And so you started your career more back of house, right?
Doing the cooking side of it, right? So what was your first job? My first job cooking was actually before I went to culinary school. There used to be this little cafe in downtown Vancouver called Bonjaz.
And basically it was a cafe where their thing was basically doing like steam buns, but also they were all filled with like matcha custards and like chocolate and all these different flavors. And so I started there learning about making food and learning how to be a cashier. And then I, yeah, from there, I basically decided that I wanted to continue, seriously, with culinary arts. And I went to Vancouver Community College.
They have a great culinary program there. And I finished my education in culinary at Como San Guirome Island and I'm a very good saleser by chef. Well, well, well, so yeah, I mean, that's a lot of school and takes a doing to do that. So having done that for a while, what made you decide that you wanted to move then to the front of the house?
Well, when I was in culinary school, I was also taking the W-set program and went all the way up to level three. I do have to retake level three. I will get to it. I swear I will get to it.
It's a lot of work. And I found it really interesting just how in depth wine is. And so I also thought it was really integral to have that knowledge when going into culinary. So I had a better understanding of the relationship between wine and food and just flavors and how wine both enhances food and is also enhanced by the food.
And yeah, like all that is just so important. So having that background knowledge while going through being a chef and being a cook, I basically ended up hitting a roadblock in the last year that I was cooking where I was not doing very well mentally. The long hours, you know, I worked with some people who were doing necessarily treat everybody very well. And so I finally made it this way.
And you know, I just I can't do this anymore. If I'm going to continue on with this, it might very well be the end of me. And so I decided to make the switch single into front of house. I ended up working at Paliachi's at my first bar turning job.
I worked with Sean Sewell and Sal to do a lot of work. I was a little too difficult in terms of learning the different sets of social skills as a bartender and having to greet people and be the host basically to be in time that you're on the floor. I mean, in the beginning, I would say it was a little bit difficult only because it was new and something fun and challenging to learn. But I mean, I love hosting people anyway.
I've always loved having people over to my house and making instant amounts of food for them and making sure they're well taken care of. So yes and no long story short. When you were talking about sort of having a negative experience in some of these kitchens is kind of like just old fucking boys network of kitchens where people like Gordon Ramsay style, shelling out you for no reason, throwing shit as that we're talking about or can you be more specific? I have worked in kitchens where I've worked with somebody who had an anger problem and they would throw things.
That wasn't necessarily the case in this particular kitchen. It was more this like, yeah, bit of a boys club, the gaslighting, the, through my entire career, I've had all different sorts of experiences in kitchens. Sexual abuse, bullying, harassment, gaslighting, as I said, you know, you name the issue, it probably happened to me. That's crazy.
Like if you don't mind me asking, how old are you? I am. How old am I? So for like someone at your age, that's still going through that shit is mind blowing to me because I'm a lot older.
So I kind of feel like I grew up in that era of like that shit happening all the time. But you're kind of hoping that every generation that goes by, it sort of stops. But I guess just because you're young working in a kitchen doesn't mean that people you're working with are. Exactly.
And I mean, I am starting to see a bit more of an attitude change in kitchens. That sort of behavior isn't tolerated as much anymore. You know, working in places where you have an HR department is really amazing because they have your back and they make sure that you're taking care of as well. But yeah, just in general, I'm seeing a change of thought process happening in hospitality in general.
Yeah, like I said, that sort of behavior isn't tolerated and never should be tolerated. And I think now there's actual change to make sure people are okay and want to come to work and are safe physically and mentally and emotionally. Yeah, I feel like it's getting better. Again, like every generation that goes by, it's like people are a little bit more cognizant of those types of things.
I think it's just the way we're taught now as opposed to years ago, not that it was ever okay, obviously, but just ignorance a lot of the times as well. Like you would watch people would watch like I remember chef like this place that I work in is almost like that was a culture like that's how you treated people, right? And it trickles down. So then your shoes, chef like that.
Well, then the shoes, chef's going to be the chef at the next spot. Right. So, you find out. Now, when you decide to come out to the bartending side of things, how did you find the culture there significantly different or any crossover with regards to abuse.
I think that because we're being a bartender, you're in the public eye all the time that, you know, I've definitely had situations where people were still inappropriate or were not being very supportive. But on the whole, I would say that it has been a lot more positive. The people that I've worked with, the people that I've met in this industry, they're all generally pretty happy and enjoy what they do. And so not to say that the people that I worked with before in kitchens weren't happy and didn't enjoy what they do, but I think because bartending can be so fun, it's kind of difficult to have a shit attitude about things.
You know, whereas when you're cooking in a kitchen, it's hot, you're sweaty, you're tired, you're working like 12 to 16 hours in some places and the pressure can be a lot. And so it just ends up happening more because people are on their last rope, they snap, it happens. And I mean, not to say that it doesn't happen in front of house and bartending, but I don't see it happen as much. I think.
Well, I think maybe you were going here with it as well. Like when you're on display all the time, when you're in the front of the house, you're behind the bar, you're at the tables, whatever. It's a lot harder for someone to freak out on you because the guests are always around, right? So maybe that's what stopped a lot of it, which is great, but whatever the reason is, it's fine.
It's basically the culture needs to change as well. And bringing back to what you're talking about, like those long hours that you're working in shitty conditions, like, I'm curious, like, what do you think we can do about that? Because like, I don't see an easy solution. I mean, I guess you could force people to not work overtime, but mostly people want to work overtime.
Yeah. And like, if you're working in a busy restaurant where there's lunch service and there's dinner service, how do you avoid working these long shifts? Like he said, it's not a very easy answer to come by. I mean, I think that's all situational and it depends on what type of restaurant you're working at.
So like, if you're working at like a, say, a Michelin level restaurant, it's almost expected that you need to be working long hours in order to achieve perfection or as close to perfection as what your chef is looking for. And what the restaurant stands for, right? Whereas, you know, there are some restaurants that are like home and pot restaurants or smaller restaurants and, you know, they might not be necessarily be open as long of hours. And so there isn't necessarily as much to do.
And so the shift ends up being shorter. I mean, hiring appropriately and being able to keep your employees happy and again, healthy, like, mentally, emotionally, and are taken care of in the restaurant, I think, is it speaks volumes in order to make the restaurant function properly and also maintain the balance of someone being able to have a life and not work 12 hours, six days a week, right? So like you said, it's a difficult question to ask or to answer, but I think the most important thing is making sure that the work environment is healthy for the people working there. And, you know, everybody's taking care of each other.
And ownership or management is making sure that the employees are well taken care of. And therefore, the employees will also take care of this. Right. We also come from the culture of the service industry as well, especially the back of the house.
Like, as long as I've been involved in it, there's like these, that's almost where the badge of honor of how many hours they worked in a week. Like, it's like, oh, I worked in a week. I was like, well, that sounds fucking awful. Why would you want to do that?
It's almost like a Trump used to brag about how he only sleeps three hours a night. I'm like, yeah, buddy, it shows. Like, yeah. So yeah, it's something to think about and work on.
But in the future is like, try to cut back something. Because I was maybe it's hiring more people in the shortest shifts or whatever. But we also need to change the mentality where it's like not something you brag about anymore. Right?
Exactly. And that's something I remember hearing all the time. And also, like, you know, you were expected to come into work early and, you know, maybe not get paid for that time that you come in before your shift. And you also say later than your schedule of shift time.
And again, you might not necessarily be getting paid for that time. And I think you hit the nail on the head. It's a change of mentality in a way of thinking. And I think it's starting to change.
I'm seeing some changes in some more positivity in kitchens. And it's really, really good to see. Awesome. Well, that's good.
We need it. So when you decided to go out to the front of the house, you're now being mentored by Sean, trans a lovely dude. Like, I actually did go to what's this place called now that he works at? Clives.
Clives, yes. We went and hung out there when I was out there. So I'm briefly, and he seems to be doing well. You just gotten back from like cognac to these these two.
Like, special courses in there. So what do you feel like he taught you like you specifically learned from him when you were making your transition to bartending? You know, he, well, he basically taught me all the skills that I needed for bartending. I had also gone through a program called Nimble during the time that I was working there, but I had also started working on the bar already for about three months before doing that course.
And so it was like, this feels like a review. This is good. It's boosting my my reassurance in myself that I actually know what I'm doing. It was awesome.
But I also learned about, you know, ordering stock for the bar and organization and recipe building and learning about spirits in general. You know, Sean and Solomon both are both wells of knowledge. And so I was very thankful to be able to spend that time there and, you know, really get a kick in the ass into getting into bartending. The other fun thing about working at eggs is that it's this very small bar that really only fits one person and it was hilarious when Sean and I would work behind that bar together on a busy Friday or Saturday night and we're both just like trying to figure out how to move around each other.
So I would say that's also something else that he taught me is special awareness and learning how to, you know, move around each other. But I mean, that was also something that I had learned in the kitchen. And these were all skills and bartending that were quite relevant to some of the stuff that I had learned in the kitchen. It was just about, you know, how to place it elsewhere and how to make it fit into the bartending box.
Yeah. Well, I'm glad you brought that up because like so many people we've talked to and so many of the great bartenders that I personally know have a culinary background. Why do you think that is? Well, you make more money.
You work less. It's pretty awesome. I'm sorry. I meant more like, why do you think like what is it about like having the culinary background that leads to you to be a better bartender?
Well, definitely the ability to taste and pairing flavors, I would say is number one, as well as the ability to multitask and time management and prep. There's so many skills in culinary that all crossover to bartending that are so integral and, you know, absolutely nothing against any bartender who's never had a culinary background, but there are some bartenders out there where you watch them work and you watch how they do things and you're like, wow, it really shows that it's just like a different type of bartender. Like I pride myself and I know some bartenders as well who also have a culinary background and, you know, we pride ourselves on being able to manage our time well and to be able to do multiple things at a time and people are like, wow, it looks like you're doing a million things right now. It's like, yeah, but you know, I'm just managing my time and making sure that everything is happening.
So I'm using my time well, you know, and that means that I can do more in my day more in my service. I can do more for the restaurant, for a guest, for my coworkers because of that. And it just makes it more fun being able to be organized. So I think all the skills that you learn in a kitchen are like absolutely transferable to bartending.
And I think, you know, sometimes you just get tired of working the long hours and just being stressed all the time. And it's just time to make a change. I know that's how I thought when I made the change. I'm sure that's how a lot of former chefs now bartenders have thought as well.
Yeah, the flavor profile is a big deal too, right? Like you mentioned at the beginning there was like, I certainly feel like, well, I'm not just going to practice now, but like when I first started doing craft coctailing, I thought I was pretty good at it. But then you run into people who started in the kitchen and I didn't have that background training. And just like how much you're just like starting on third base almost because you have the whole idea of like how flavors go together from your work in the kitchen, right?
It's like, I really think it's a huge advantage. Absolutely. I like to think of making cocktails as like making a stock where you're using all these ingredients to make up your basis of where your flavors are going. And if you think what I find when I think about cocktails like that, it ends up adding more dimensions to the cocktail and you end up going through like different phases of different flavors.
And it just makes the cocktails so much better. That's really fun. Yeah, I do really think it is a big advantage when it comes to that when you start into the cocktail. And I've also noticed that the way we keep pushing this craft coctailing more and more forward, like the people who are doing it the best, almost all of what they're doing is like essentially cooking, right?
It's like how you're making cocktails now, like all the prep work you're doing before that you're doing a lot of the works in like a quote unquote lab, but it's like a kitchen basically. Exactly. So that's interesting. Sorry, I wasn't able to buy that you were the first bar you were to.
Yeah, she's it's a family owned restaurant in downtown Victoria. It's been around for like over four years. And how long did you buy down there? I think I was there for just over a year.
And then I decided to move on to a bar called Veneto, which I was really excited about working there. It's in the hotel. We also unfortunately, COVID claimed Veneto right when COVID happened. It got shut down and new management came in and leased the space and changed it into a different restaurant altogether.
I was very sad because I only got to work at Veneto full time for about a month and it broke my heart. That sucks. Yeah. And then you decide when you went to Wind Beer.
And so I felt that being at the liquor store and learning from Megan Marley's who is the guy running the store, I thought that was super important to me to make sure that, you know, I'm not just going to hang out and enjoy this on and go to the beach every day, even though that's exactly what I wanted to do. All my other friends, but I wanted to make sure that I was keeping my education up while all this stuff was happening. Right. Yeah.
I was mentioning before we started recording that I had in the Windcries Mary and I think that their cocktail program is amazing. How involved were you in cocktail creation there? Quite involved. At one point was, well, not at one point.
When I was there, I was one of the main bartenders. When I had first started there, it was Clayton and Sorin and I'm in jazz, but he ended up leaving. And it was the three of us at one point for months. And we ended up hiring a couple of the bartenders as well who are wonderful people.
We had a guy named Matt and we have Bronwyn on the bar. We also hired a guy named Alex. I'm all over the place. Anyways, I was equally involved in making the cocktails and helping make a program and recipes, everything.
I was also known as like the prep horse there. I love doing prep shifts there. It was great. That's got to be a dial back to your cooking.
Right? Like, this is sort of ingrained in you all that prep at this point. Yeah, exactly. And it was just so fun just being able to prep and know that everything was set for service, especially during the summer where you're just like all prepping because we were so busy all the time.
It was awesome. And it was kind of just every single service. And it was so much fun. Well, I don't feel like there's a whole lot of other bars like that.
At least, I mean, I kind of did the very quick tourist tour with my friend John. And but like, it's very unique in like the downtown Victoria area, that spot. It's like very sort of eclectic and kind of like a dark Toronto Montreal style vibe to it. Yeah, and like a straight cocktail lounge where a lot of like when I found specifically, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but in Victoria, it's so much about craft breweries and brew pubs.
Yeah, definitely. But it's also amazing because with the expansion of the Victoria Hospital, you see, especially after the weekend. There's been so much more. There's been like, there's always been craft cocktail bars, but now there's again, there's more.
We're also opening up wine bars and specific themed things. And it's just amazing that it isn't just like, oh, I'll come in and I'll help. And like, that's all those people are interested in trying new and different things. And so it's, yeah, it's super cool.
Not to say that the craft breweries, they aren't very good. They are very good. There's a great year in Victoria. But it's nice to see that there is some more variety.
Right. Yeah, I did take a lot of good beer when I was there. But it was nice that there were still like some cocktail lounges to go to as well. Since we're talking, Victoria, maybe you can explain to our listeners the overbearing prevalence of the chef.
I don't remember the specific details about how it came about, but I know that it was created in a bar in Calgary and then it got brought to Victoria and it ended up being a huge thing. I think the bar in Victoria that started out was huge. It's a place that is no longer open. I also, I'm not really sure why people love chefs so much, but it is what everybody drinks when they go out because they want to be awake and they want to get dressed high because they're espresso my teenies myself.
But yeah, I don't know. It's just, it's a whole, it almost feels like it's the very heartbeat of the drinking culture in Victoria sometimes just because of how often it is. Okay, so explain to our listeners the chef is. I think it was my daily job.
I got the chef. So now I heard the drinking chef is. So think of an espresso martini, but with the addition of cream liquor. So it's vodka, coffee liquor, cream liquor and usually like cold brew or espresso or something like that.
It's the early 2000s version of the bread bowl and yankers. And like every bar service. But the one thing I do like about it is that every bar sort of has their own unique play on it. Yes.
Well, it's funny that you say that because right now at the lake house, we have three different shafts on the menu. We have a regular chef, we have an old fashioned doughnut infused chef and we have a vegan chef. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, they're all brilliant.
Yeah. So, okay, yeah, so since you brought it up and again, we gave a sort of virtual tour of the restaurant there is beautiful. Talk to us about what you're doing at the lake house with the cocktail programs like and what you like about it. Well, the location is beautiful.
It's right on Shawn again, like at the end of the West arm. And, you know, it's been a long time since I've worked in a restaurant where everybody is just happy to be here and happy to be around each other and to, you know, work a busy shift where we're all running and we're all supporting each other. It's amazing. When Christ Mary was very much so like that, but being here at the lake house has been so positive for me and I feel like it's a very positive place for everybody else that I work with.
So, in terms of the cocktail program here, basically just trying to bring fun cocktails to the Cauchy Valley. There's not a lot of coffee bars up this way. And so, for me, it's really fun because I feel like I get to open everybody's but I feel like I get to open eyes to like what good cocktails can be and it's not just like, you know, lucky loggers, sour plus product, you know, like whatever. We definitely have lucky, we have a lot of people who drink like a lot of your in there is nothing wrong with a lucky, it is the champagne of beers other than the other highlights.
Yeah, so it's just really fun for me because, yeah, like I said, it feels like I get to open eyes up for the guests coming in and they get to experience something new when they come here. Yeah, in the summertime, we have a full margarita menu, all the control in it and we try to have five or six margaritas for the whole season. We have a few cocktails that have been on the list basically since they opened here and they will never change but we try to keep things interesting and different. We try to change the menu.
I would say probably three to four times in the year. That being said, I also only started here at the end of April last year. So still feeling out with the full time here with the full year looks like but getting a pretty good sense of it now. Yeah.
What would you describe like the shaggy guy in general? Like what's the what kind of a town is it? Smaller town? Like, are there lots of restaurants to go to?
What's the scene there? Shawn again is definitely a smaller town in this area. There is us and there's a dive bar called the Black Swan. And yeah, it's a Shawn again as it's little town.
That's pretty much it other than like us away and, you know, there's a city place. There's a couple of small restaurants but like that's it in terms of and Marydale on the lake. There is a secondary location. So there's three places that you can go and check out.
But there's also lots of smaller towns surrounding Shawn again. There's Cobble Hill, there's Mill Bay, there's a lot of places around in those smaller towns but they're a little bit better to get to. So it's kind of like going on an adventure wherever you end up going in this area. What was I called?
I didn't say Shawn again. Should we get in probably? I'll get it right about it. So people are mostly coming there for tourism, I guess.
Is it like? Yeah, it's just like beautiful nature. No, is it hard to find somewhere to live out there and like say if you're moving out that way to work? Well, it wasn't difficult for myself and my husband.
We basically were in the right place at the right time. We had been wanting to move out of downtown Victoria for a while. We just started looking in the area in the country quote unquote and found the place where we are living now. And yeah, like I said, it was right place right time.
We got in the market at the right time because everything absolutely skyrocketed in price. The housing market here is fucked. But in terms of, I don't know this. I always hear about people renting places in their houses or places going up for sale.
And I don't think it's difficult to find a place up here. It doesn't seem like it seems like there has been a good amount of vacancy and availability, whatever you want to call it. Yeah, it just depends on what area you want to live in and how hard you want to drive and what part of the country do you want to live in? Yeah, yeah.
How long, like how long a drive is it from Victoria proper like downtown Victoria? Depends on when you're leaving Victoria, but I would say from downtown Victoria to restaurant here, it's about 45 minutes. Okay, I wasn't sure. I mean, I guess the album is not that big in general, but yeah.
Okay, well, that is great. Raven. Tell us where they can follow you on Instagram to check out what you're up to and maybe where the restaurants with the lake house information is as well. So they can follow along and when they're in the area comes to you.
Yeah, so the restaurant is called the lake house. You can follow us on Facebook and on Instagram at the lake house at Shonigan. And my personal Instagram is rad hospitality Merc. Okay, well, thanks very much.
We really appreciate you coming on with us and especially when you're actually physically at work. So thank you very much. And best of luck. Enjoy a shaft tonight on us when you're done with it.
Good job. Yeah. Okay, thanks again. Thanks for talking.
Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much for having me on.