E157 Keely Rollheiser and Yelena Anter

This week we have another two-part episode. In the main part of the show, our first guest is Kili Rolheiser. Kili is originally from Chilliwack, BC, but recently moved to Providence, Rhode Island. Kili got her start in the industry after high school when she led in her first job at a corporate restaurant.

Kili quickly rose up the ranks and became bar manager within six months after starting the job. Kili eventually moved on to working in non-corporate private owned establishments and recently spent over a year working and living in Cork, Ireland. For the second part of the episode, Yelena Enter, from cocktail vision returns to join the show. We talk with Yelena about the difference and impact of working smaller and larger trade shows.

We discuss the challenges of pairing cocktails with trade show dinners, and we finish off talking about the exposure of appearing at Tales of the Cocktail in New Orleans. Enjoy the show! Okay, we're back with another episode of the industry podcast. My name is Kip, with me as always, is Dan.

What is happening? Just being awesome is always no real change there. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, you're still awesome.

Oh, yeah, keep on telling myself that. What about yourself? What are those days where I wish I'd gotten into real estate? But apparently that's what everybody does when they leave their career in the service industry now.

So it's still doors to open for me. Yeah, it's really curious how much real estate is there to sell? Like I was driving behind another fucking bus the other day with another ad for another realtor in town. Like, do we really have this much property to sell?

I think so. It's all those condos. All the one bedroom condos are that more. There could be enough money in it for all these people.

I think it's only the top couple that make a lot of cash. Right. And so I get a lot of ex-realtors passing for jobs. Pretty much.

Okay. All right. Well, we have another great episode for you here today. Keeley Dawson is going to be joining us in just a minute followed by Yelena Enter making a return to the show.

Before we get to that, we should mention that if you're in the kitchen or Waterloo area, kitchen or a Lou Cambridge, sorry, Tri-City area, you're going to want to come check out Sugar Run and Downtown Kitchener. It's a speak easy. You can check out at Sugar Run bar to find out locations, passwords, and what's going on in our event calendar. We have burlesque DJs live music all the time.

So check that out. Up on Waterloo, it's Babylon Sisters wine and spirits bar. Also often have live music there and DJs on the weekend. So you want to check that out at Babylon Sisters bar on Instagram.

And then finally in Preston Cambridge area, it's the Argyle Arms. Constantly new menu changes. That's the Scottish pub there in Cambridge live music every weekend. Open mic night every Wednesday, wing specials, happy hour, the whole thing.

That's at Argyle underscore arms underscore 2023 on Instagram. It's a mouthful. Yeah. It used to be a pub and then we had to take it over the Instagram account and there was a lot left.

Yeah, I could look at that one. If you like what we're doing here on the industry podcast show as we know you do, you should like subscribe, rate, review, all of that good stuff helps us out a great deal. If you want to be a guest on the show, it's info at theindustrypodcast.club or you can DM us at the industry podcast on Instagram where you will find the magnificent artwork from as that can add that can at that's the O that's at a K H a double and a H dot CO. Hit him up for all your graphic arts needs and always a big, thank you.

You Zach for all the great work you do for us. Anything else you want to talk about it? Should we just get to Kelly? I think he's usually have nothing intelligence today.

So okay. Keely, how are you? I'm doing well. Thanks for you guys.

Thanks very much. Keely is coming to us from Providence, Rhode Island. So let's start there. Talk to us about now.

Are you still currently in the service industry? Are you taking a break? I am still currently in the service industry. I did take a little bit of a break just because I was in Ireland for the past year and a half.

And my husband and I just relocated to Providence, Rhode Island. So taking a break, kind of seeing what's out there here in Providence. I definitely want like a good fit. I'm used to dining.

I did some of the nightclub scene in Ireland. Don't want to do that again. So I'd like to see kind of what's what the vibe is of the city in Providence, what the people like and see where I fit in that. What's the night club scene like in Ireland?

That sounds like a nightmare. It's bananas. Like it's very interesting. I worked at a brand new bar like a downtown Quark.

And Quark is a really cool city. It's like a small but big feel and lots of partying. People are going down every single night of the week. It's a lot of the liver, but it's a lot of fun.

It's totally their culture there to just go to the bar with your friends. That's what you do seven days a week. So I worked at a really cool place called the PAV. But the downstairs is a speakeasy, which is more my speed.

But when I would have to work the upstairs, full on nightclub, couldn't understand a word anyone was saying because it was loud. And the Quark accent is not, it doesn't sound like English. So it was really interesting. It's a lot more open minded than I thought it would be.

I thought it was going to be a really conservative country. But you know, there's LGBTQ plus nights going on. There's lots of live music. It was a lot of fun, but it was as a time in my life that I will not be way back to anytime soon working in a nightclub.

So yeah. Okay, let's back it up a little bit. And like, how did you first get into the service industry and where are you living at that time? Yeah.

So I'm originally from about an hour east from Vancouver, British Columbia in a town called Chilliwack. It's up and coming now, but when I started in the industry seven years ago now, it mostly pubs or chain restaurants. So I started at Earls, which is a fuller group restaurant for people who aren't familiar. And it was a corporate restaurant.

It's a lot like cactus club, modern food, kind of fusion stuff going on. And I actually got hired as a server, but my training shift, I went into the dish pit and I thought, wow, do you have any bar positions open? And they said, yes. So then I started bartending.

Yeah, I was 19 at the time. I had no experience in the service industry, obviously because I was just at that point. And then six months into it, I was loving it so much. And I got offered the bar management position and just kind of went from there.

My love for cocktails, wine, beer, just kind of came alive. And it was a lot of fun. It was really different than anything I'd done before. But I love the social aspect.

I love the creative aspect. I love the food pairing aspect. Everything was just kind of clicking for me. So yeah, that's how I started.

And so that's pretty young to already be put into a management role at a bar. How did you think of that? And how did your coworkers take to being boss around by a 19 year old girl? Not well.

On either front. I've always had just kind of allowed personality. I'm very direct. I can take criticism well.

And I think that's good in a leadership position like that. Looking back, I think if I had gotten defensive or had pride, it would have been something that I wouldn't have enjoyed as much. But because I had no experience, there was nothing I could really be prideful about. And so I think I was moldable.

And I still had that kind of loud direct personality. So it was a nice fit for a corporate place because I didn't have that defensiveness for criticism. I was just like taking it all and striding. Give me anything.

Any kind of feedback is going to feed back from me at this point. It's just going to make me better because I really had no foundation in the first place. So yeah, it was interesting. I was nervous.

You know, lost my coworkers were 10, 15 years older than me. But it was also a lot of girls my age serving. Just not really behind the bar, more on the floor. But yeah, like once they understood that I wasn't there to just be an asshole and boss them around, we really got into the group of things.

I was open to ideas and I think they liked that kind of leadership my bar team. They weren't used to that. So it was actually like, it started off a little rocky, but kind of came into it. And yeah, I mean, I still want to talk kind of fondly.

But I think it was a good thing. I was so young just because I learned so much. Nice. Did you find, because I also was putting to a supervisory role very young in my career.

And I'm sort of like you as well. I don't mind if people tell me what's up. Like, but sometimes when you're the type of person who doesn't mind that kind of feedback and constructive criticism, it's harder. Like you kind of expected one else to be the same way as you.

Yes. Did you find any struggles with that? Absolutely. Just, I mean, I think also the age was a big thing.

And like you said, like I like being communicated that way. So when I started to communicate that way, I noticed a lot of pushback. And at first it hurt my feelings because I was like, it's just because I'm young. But I learned it was a really good learning opportunity that people want to be communicated too differently.

And they need to softer approach. They need encouragement. And I think those are good things. And I think it actually builds better relationships with your team when it's not just like, because if I was doing something wrong and someone was like, hey, you're doing that wrong, you're like, oh shit, let me do it right.

Like, should we have to do it? Whereas I'm being really directly to that wrong. They're like, oh, she hates me. When that's not the case, it's just the industry.

It's fast paced. I don't always have the time to sit you down and sandwich encouragement, whatever that model is that people tell you is. I was having a hard time balancing people's feelings. But once I kind of understood that's really important and people are different and people thrive on connection.

I think it gives you a way better leadership style. It gives you a way safer space in your team. And I think people get along better just when they feel valued. I also think that maybe that model doesn't really apply so much to the service industry.

Because yes, maybe after work or during a staff meeting or an off day, you have the time to give that sandwich approach or whatever. But when you're in the, when you're a feeder in the fire in the middle of service, you don't have time to get them down for encouragement. You just need them to do the job properly at that time. And so I think it's created this weird thing in our industry now where it's like, we're all supposed to be so cognizant of everyone's feelings and emotions.

But we also just need to get the job done in the time that needs to be done when you're in the service. So what do you think? Like, how do we balance that? That's a really good question.

That's something I'm really trying to figure out. I think my approach now is when I see someone doing something awesome or in the weeds together, and I'm just always giving encouragement. So it's like, you know, we're the weeds together. I'm on the well, they're kicking ass porn pines or making high balls.

I make a note of that. And while it's happening, I want to say like, hey, you're killing it right now. Hey, just want to take a moment and tell you like you're doing a fantastic job. Like let's keep working hard so that when something arises, they've already had that kind of encouragement all night and they know what they're doing right already.

So then when I have to give them some direction, it feels a little less harsh. It's like, oh, well, she has been really affirming to me already, really encouraging. And maybe they're more receptive to that criticism at that point. Yeah.

And like the error that I came up with too is like very much very harsh, like all the time. Like we had time for any bullshit and you'd say it just how you like, we just didn't talk to each other appropriately, right? Yeah. It was very easy for people to who didn't want very thick skin to choose a different industry.

And we need people from all with all different like emotional levels working in the industry. So it's good to figure out. It's just very hard to at the beginning specifically, excuse me to like figure out which ones need to care it and which ones like the stick and. Absolutely.

Yeah. It's definitely just a bunch of personalities doing the same job, which is interesting because it's like, you never know what's going to trigger someone to have a bad night and also they're grumpy on the floor and they're affecting everyone. How do you navigate that? How do you get them out of that mood?

It's definitely very interesting. But because I think I'm young and also a woman, people are expecting me to be kind of a pushover and I'm not. And so I think that's really helped me in this industry just kind of have a backbone and continue to get leadership roles and have my voice be heard. And I think that's nice because I think it allows young women to get in this industry as well and not be pushed around by old men essentially.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And like, so talk to us a little bit about that. Like some of your struggles coming up as a younger woman who was thrust into these roles very early. Like, how talk to us about some of the pushback you got and how you had to fight to get the respect that you deserved?

Yeah, absolutely. Like, I'm lucky enough that where I'm from, lots of the men are in trades. So it's actually not really male dominated in the town that I grew up in. So it's very female dominated industry.

However, you're serving mostly tradesmen. And so that's really different too because you don't have a lot of respect from your guests. And I'm young. I'm a woman.

And so it's like, oh, like I'll have an old fashioned. Do you know how to make that? It's like literally my fucking job. So yeah, I don't make it.

Like it's what I do for a living. So I've got a lot of pushback there. And then I worked at a franchise restaurant. However, it was privately owned, the one location that I worked out was privately owned.

And it's different when it's privately owned. There's a little bit, there's a little bit of leeway on how to do things. It's not complete corporate structure. You have a bit of freedom.

So being told, hey, you need to do this and this, but it's like that person was never there. That's hard too. Because it's like, well, this is my restaurant. But I'm like, hey, but I know how it works.

I'm here every day on the floor in the weeds, talking to the guests, talking to your staff, making things work. So I think that was hard just trying to find my footing on respecting my boss and the owner of the restaurant, but also having my voice heard like, hey, these things don't work. And just because I'm young and just because I'm new doesn't mean like I am naive on how to make it work. And so I think that was a learning curve for me, just really trying to still be direct, still be respectful.

But again, having my voice heard being a young woman in this industry. So just lots of being polite, but still being direct, lots of not being too pushy, but hey, you didn't follow up my email two weeks ago. So I don't want to be annoying or naggy. These words that women often are told that they are unlabeled as, trying to figure out how to do those things well.

And that's a hard thing that I continue to do. It's like a man could email me 40 times and it's not naggy for him. It's he's professional and he wants it done. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. And for me, she's annoying and she's bitchy and she's naggy. And so trying to break those stereotypes and still be professional, still being good at my job. Yeah, that's I think my biggest struggle that I found anyway is the respect from your guests.

Sometimes you hire a guy and he thinks he knows more than you and because he was a bartender at Boston Pizza. And then like he bought a box wine and I know a lot more than you do. So like... Or where's it they fucking went to bartender school?

That's not exactly exactly. No, I went to bartender school. I know Buffalo Trace is the best whiskey on the market. I'm like, no, actually they just sponsored your bartending school.

And it's good whiskey. Yeah, yeah. It's not the best. Yeah, yeah.

That's funny. So are there any specific examples from like when you're actually bartending as well that you've noticed from either guests or coworkers that some sort of misogynistic sexist sort of undertones to doing your job? Because I've been stunned since we started doing this show and we're a few episodes in now that like how many women I've talked to who still are getting me from like a guest. Oh, I want the guy to make my drink.

Like I can believe that. Like I can't believe that still happens. Everybody goes right? Yeah.

And I think it's interesting because the statistic is something like 70% of bartenders are women. So it's not even like a male dominated industry anymore. No, it's a female dominated industry. Exactly.

And so I'll give you an example. I was in Ireland is progressive in a lot of ways, but at the same time it's very much, it can be very misogynistic, the tone to things. And bartending is not really a career job there. It's mostly like a transitional job or it's like you've been a barkeep for 80 years and you're you know, 77 years old boring Guinness.

Like it's very much either your college student or your halfway in the grave. So it's interesting because I'm neither. So yeah, so I had a gentleman come in with a girl and he's trying to impress her and he's like, Oh, like, are you the host? I'm like, Oh, no, I'm the bartender.

He's like, Oh, like, do you any user manager here? I'm like, Oh, I'm in charge right now. Oh, okay. Do you know how to make an emeritus hour?

And like, first of all, why are you drinking an emeritus hour? You're a 50 year old man. I'm going to impress your friend. And yeah, so I absolutely do know how to make an emeritus hour.

And he was like, okay, well, can I try it? And like, if I don't like it, can I send it back? And I was like, sure, like I don't give a fuck. I really amirite or connoisseur.

Yeah, exactly. And so just things like that. And I could tell that his date was very embarrassed. And I was embarrassed for him because he just drank an emeritus hour and he was being a satch-and-a-s.

So I was like, that's kind of how you got to look at it, right? Like, I'm just embarrassed for you. Like, yeah. Absolutely.

And so I'm not new to that kind of experience with men. Just because, like I said, I grew up and started in the industry in a very like trade dominated city. And so, you know, lots of men that are either going to sexually harass you while you're serving them or will men slain the logger to you. And I just, yeah, it's just something that I've continued to experience.

When I first started working, I would always kind of let it roll off my shoulder now that I've been in the industry for a while. I'll ask them to leave or tell them to shut the fuck up. And I think that's good because I think younger women that work with me or for me see that and they understand like, oh, hey, like, I actually don't have to be treated like that. Because I think for a long time, it's just like, oh, well, if the guest says, you know.

The customer's always right that boat isn't happening. Yeah, it's like, well, actually, like, you have rights here. And they're coming into your space and obviously treat them with respect until they don't treat you with respect. And then, you know, deserve that regardless if they're the customer and you're here to serve them.

There has to be that mutual respect. So yeah. And it's probably even worse for you too, because you also look very young, right? So having a youthful, what's the word?

I'm like, thank you. Useful appearance is like great for you in regular life, but not maybe always with your job, right? Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, do you? Yeah. Again, like, do you know how to make an hour out of sour?

It's like, yeah, like I'm not 12. I do. Yeah. So I, yeah, I agree.

It was a silly trick. I remember about 25 years ago. You know when it came back a little bit when like the whole cocktail culture came back as we were doing it properly again with the egg most do like that shitty version in the 80s and 90s. Yeah.

So I was just like, some like lime juice from a gun. Yeah. Yeah. A little bit of club stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. Just. Yeah.

Yeah. Proper drink, Megan. Yeah. Okay.

So let's talk a little bit more about it. So you start off in BC and then how did you like give it, talk just a little bit how you ended up in Ireland and then now in Rhode Island and what you were doing in the like work was. Yeah. So I had just started at a, it was a helping opening a restaurant.

It was privately owned. So a bit more of my speed. I had a lot more freedom here in BC to make my own menus, create my own like kind of training system, make the bar my own, which was really nice coming from that corporate structure. I obviously had some nice foundation and I learned a lot, but now I kind of wanted, you know, step, I was kind of getting bored of that.

I wanted to be creative. And then my now husband, I met, he's also from BC, but he was going to school in Ireland. And so we did the long distance thing for just over a year. And then I was really over the long distance thing.

And so was he. So I moved to Ireland where he was finishing his degree. And like I said, I was into dining before working at restaurants. And then I went to this more speakeasy downstairs.

Nightclub upstairs was a really big transition for me. On top of that culture is different, humor is different. I really felt foreign, like very foreign. And it was interesting.

Like I'd never worked, I worked fast pace and I can make a drink in a minute. But I'm not making like vodka crayons and shots. I'm not used to the shot bar kind of vibe. And so it was hard and it was different and it was loud.

And I'll never do it again, but it was a great experience. But that's why I ended up in Ireland. Yeah, my husband was finishing up his schooling. And now that he's done, he was in med school.

So he matched to a residency program in Providence, Rhode Island. And so that's what brought us there. So we're here in the US for the next four years. And so yeah, that's it.

We're just kind of keeping moving around different countries. And it's interesting. And I think it's really awesome how much you can learn, even though it's the same industry in different parts of the world. It's just so much different.

And I learned a lot in Ireland. And it was a really great experience overall. Nice. How long were you in Ireland again for?

I was in Ireland for a year and a half. OK. So how does that work as a Canadian? Like do you have to get like a visa to stay that longer?

Yeah. So it's nice because Ireland isn't part of the UK, but they still have a really close connection to Canada. And so you can apply for working visa there. And you get like a two-day or sorry, not two-day, two-year working holiday visa.

So you're allowed to stay and you're allowed to work for two years. So it was really easy. And that's what I did. Oh, OK.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a great experience for you. Like it's kind of weird how you, like most people start off in sort of a, I know you started in like a corporate style restaurant, but then you very quickly were like, management and working in like fine dining. And then to go back to nightclubs after that must have been quite a fucking eye opener.

Yeah, absolutely. It goes the other way around, right? Yeah. Like you got kind of tired and burnt out and men.

My first night in Ireland, like it's very different. Even the working structure in Ireland, like in Canada, you saw these luxuries all called them now like, over time. And like, how about in your hours? And that's just not a thing in Ireland.

So, you know, my first shift, we had just opened the bar. And my first shift, I worked 13 hours. And I was like, holy shit, like my overtime is going to be awesome. Like that was so much fun, but man, I'm burnt out.

You know, I'm used to getting home at midnight from work at the latest. And then I'm getting home at five in the morning, right? So it was really different, but I'm like, oh, my paycheck's going to pay off. Then I found my paycheck and there's no over time hours in Ireland.

So you work 13 hours, you're going to pay the same wage the whole time. And it's just shocking to me because it's not a tipping culture either. So it's 100% just your wage and your wage is not very high and there's no overtime. So every time you're working, you're working 12, 13 hours, just for your regular wage.

But is it like above minimum wage at all? Or is it like literally? Oh, yeah. Like I got above minimum wage only because of my experience.

Yeah. But like I said, yeah, 100%. So like I said, it's very much like kids in college or old men. Oh, yeah.

And so yeah, like, but man, they're really hard workers. And I will take that away from it because, you know, in Canada, I'm so used to my staff saying like being lazy, if they're not making tips or having a negative attitude about it. And I understand that absolutely like, I think you should get paid what you're worth. But watching these people and working with these people who are just like, no, this is my job regardless of, you know, if I'm taking home 200 euros at the end of the night or just my wage, their work didn't change.

It was very much hardworking, very friendly, great people. And there was no attitude about having this complex of how much it deserves, which is you should get paid what you deserve. I absolutely believe that. But it wasn't like, oh, this table like sift me.

So now I'm going to have that attitude for the rest of the night, which I can understand. But I think I have a new perspective now coming out of that. Like, is it just an understanding? I'm sorry, I'm interrupting you.

But give you a different understanding of how you feel about tip culture versus non-tip culture? Yeah, kind of. I still am very much poor tipping culture. I think that we shouldn't really be dependent on it, but I think it's a nice incentive.

And I think, you know, if you were giving service and you're doing a good job, that you should get tipped. Do I agree with, you know, basically the customer, paying you, not your employer? No. But I think there needs to be a happy medium.

I'm not sure what that looks like yet. But going from one extreme to the other was really an interesting transition for me. And I think I've taken a lot away from just seeing how hard people still work and how an employer is responsible for your wages. And it's not the people who are dining at your restaurant.

So yeah, like, I'll definitely take that away. I don't think tipping culture should not be a thing. I'm very poor to be in culture because I make a lot of money from tips. So obviously I'm a bit biased, but I don't think the guests should be paying your wage.

I think your employer should be paying you a fair wage. Yeah. I honestly can't imagine a worse job than nightclub in a non-tip culture. Oh, God.

I guess we both done a night club. 50 wage. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, like, we've both done night clubs before. And it's like, I used to always call it death by a million quarters, but at least you got the million fucking quarters. Yeah. 100% yeah.

I didn't get the quarters. Yeah. We make sure it was a million quarters too. That's a thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. That's a rough thing. Yeah, that's tough. Wait, let's stick it out.

Yeah. I mean, it was every day like, and I love the people I worked for. I love the bar I worked at. But every day I was like, God, I can't wait for this to be over.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That my nightclub experience was like about a four hours shift or it's like a roulette machine that always hit jackpots all the time.

So quite different. Quite different. Yeah. Yeah.

I got it at an nightclub. Really? That's all I'm worth? Yeah, exactly.

I just need to have another shower. Like, yeah. But did you know how? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Well, it's getting based on it, I guess. It has a taste. Yeah.

Yeah. That's funny. So, OK. So when you move back to Providence and you were thinking about it.

So where are you working now? Let's start there. So I only moved to Providence last week. Oh, shit.

Yeah. I'm not working at the moment. I just I really want to see what's out there before I commit to something. Right.

For sure. I'm not exactly sure if I want to stay in dining or I want to move into kind of distilling or wine. I really love wine. I'm doing my quartermaster's smallet right now.

So, yeah, I really enjoy the wine process, the pairing, everything about it. So I'm not sure if I want to get more into that side of things or continue with the restaurant. I don't think I'll do a bar again if I'm going to be doing something in that field. But yes, it's really between dining and wine or distilleries at this point.

So I'm just trying to find my footing. I'm going to explore the city, see what the vibe is, see what they have to offer and see where I have it best. And have you spent much time in that area of the world before you move there? No.

Oh my word. No, I've actually been to the East Coast in North America once. It was last year my husband was doing a placement in New York for two weeks. And so that was the first time I'd ever been to the East Coast in Canada or the US.

And I like the rough people. They're very rough, but you can tell they got big hearts and it's really genuine. And I like that it's a little bit different from the West Coast where you get this, you know, a little bit, it can be a little fake sometimes. Like, oh, I really care about you, but I'm going to talk much shit about you.

It's a different kind of vibe. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like on the East Coast so far anyway, everyone's been so great, so friendly. It's only been a week.

And I'm really enjoying the culture so far. So yeah, I'm pretty good to get to know better. Yeah. I'd always rather be called an asshole to my face than behind my bag.

Oh my God, too. I just want to. Yeah. I'll probably agree with you.

Well, you are an asshole. There you go. You're a lovely English. No problem.

No problem. No problem. No, you think I'm joking. Okay.

So when did your love for Wines start? Was this working in finding an BBC or? Yeah, like part of the role that I took on at my first job being the bar manager was it was very heavily. There was a lot of training in this program.

So if you get hired, you have to go through a bunch of very intense training before you're on the floor, which I like, I think that's a really good system to have because then people are prepared to do their job well. Right. So part of my role was training on Wines. So I had to learn a lot about Wines and obviously being 19, my family didn't really drink wine either.

They're more like if they drink bodacious, they call it like booty lishes because they don't know what it's called even. It's like, it's actually neither of those things. It's gasoline. Yeah.

So it was interesting getting into that role and not knowing anything about Wines, but once I started learning about it, I started loving it and I loved talking about it. And that's what I actually really missed that working in a nightclub. I really love talking about what I serve. Are they weren't interested in the terroir of the wine?

No, they're like, you have red or white. I don't want either of them. I want to rumble vodka. So can you mix them together to make a roselight?

Exactly. So yeah, like I just kind of fell in love, like talking about it, pairing it with food, how different each region is and you can have the same grade from two different places, completely different wine. I thought that was so cool. And I love that there's like a story about each vineyard.

And I've done a lot of traveling and tasting wine around the world. And I just, I'm really fascinated by it. I think it's a lot of fun. And I think I'd like it to be more approachable.

I think that for my whole time that I've been in the industry, it's very much like prestigious and exclusive. But I think everyone should drink it and everyone should enjoy it regardless of what usually drink. Oh, you like a sweeter wine? That doesn't mean you're a loser.

That just means you like a sweeter wine. You know, so yeah, it's like, if you, the other thing is the nerdiness of it, right? Like there's people like us who like really are into it and like to talk about wine and talk about all this. And like get really fascinated by all the things you just mentioned, like the great sort of different regions and how the terroir can affect the wine.

And then there's people who just do not give a shit. But most people who drink eventually get around to wine, right? And like it would like to know more about it. So how do you think we make it more accessible to people who might not have the same sort of nerdiness that we might have for it?

But like maybe with like a little bit of knowledge to drink a little bit better. Yeah, I think a lot of that, like especially with dining, like I'll take that kind of go with it. So in my experience with dining, someone's like, hey, like I usually don't drink a red. Or I noticed that they're like, I don't really know what I want on this menu.

I don't, you can tell that they're not familiar with wine. I love the tasting approach. Hey, can I give you a taste or something? Hey, what are you usually into having a conversation about it?

I think makes it less like I'm embarrassed because I don't know what to drink and more and go let me discover what I like. So I think it's really about investing in your guests and investing in your staff so that they can invest in your guests as well. I think that makes it a lot more approachable and less like shameful that I've never had, you know, a peanut and water from California. It's like, well, that's okay.

Like you want to try one? Hey, like do you think you'd like it? Hey, let me grab you a taste or and I think it's just being open to the fact that, you know, people are embarrassed about like, especially like, you know, I go out with my friends and I'm I love wine and I'm a bit of a steward. So, you know, I'll order the bottle and then it's like, well, I've never had a California capsule.

Was it taste like, well, let's just taste it. Like I don't have to describe it to you in these big words because our palettes are different anyway. So you're going to taste different things that I taste, right? And so it's just like, I think that tasting method is just the perfect way to make it more approachable.

Like just, hey, let's have a conversation and let's see if you like it. Yeah, what do you think about it? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I just want to get to I have like, I have the wine bar, the one wine bar and like trying to train my staff so that they can like sort of their like bring their knowledge forward to the guests who are there. I get frustrated sometimes.

It's like trying to find people who give a shit about it enough to learn the info, right? Absolutely. But that's a good tip as well. Just be like, tell me what you think.

Tell me what you like. And then maybe they just find the ones that they like and that's what they push. But yeah, exactly. Hopefully there's a pricey ones for your sake.

Yeah. Or at least the ones with the biggest markup. Yeah. Yeah.

I got it. Well, it's super fascinating talking to you. Kili, we really appreciate coming on the show and wish you all the best in Providence. We're interested to have you come on sometime later and tell us about the scene there once you're figured it out.

Yeah, absolutely. Because I spent a lot of time in New England, but I've never been to Providence. So I'm kind of interested. But I've always been fascinated by Rhode Island and what goes on.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited for it. It's going to be fun for you. Well, stay in touch and we'll let us know what you end up doing, whether it's back in dining or doing something with wind or distilling.

But yeah, maybe we'll get you back on in the future. Absolutely. Thank you so much guys. This is a nice chat with you.

Hey, don't worry. Say a quick question before you go. Well, I want to find you online. What's the best way to do that?

Yeah. So if you want to find me online, I post a lot of my recipes on actually LinkedIn, which is arising. But I feel like it's a nice little community on there and I meet a lot of people through it. So it's pretty awesome.

And so my LinkedIn is just Keeley-Rulheiser. Rulheiser is spelled hardly. So just try your best. And on Instagram, it's at Keeley-Rulheiser as well.

So I'll sell it for you this time. It's K-E-E-L-Y-R-O-L-L-H-E-S-E-R. And yeah, that's what I find me. My bartender's atlas is linked there as well.

So you can kind of see what city I'm in because I update that accordingly. And yeah. Awesome. Perfect.

Well, it was great. It was honestly a pleasure meeting you and great talking to you and we'll be all the best. Yeah. Thanks again.

Cool. Cheers guys. Enjoy this today. And now for the second part of the episode with the Elena Enter of Cocktail Vision.

And we are back again with our good friend Elena Enter. How are you Elena? I'm fantastic. Good to see you guys.

You're welcome. Good to see you guys. Good to hear you. Yeah.

So tell us what have you been up to? What's since last time we talked? Tell us about some of these events you've been involved in. Man, it's been nonstop.

Seriously, we've been home maybe two days in between each trip. So talk about burnout big time. But a lot of fun. A lot of fun.

We just came back from a new Mexico Cocktail Week. And it was in Sanofi, New Mexico. It was so much fun. It was small.

But a lot of bars, not a face pretty small to begin with. But a lot of bars, a lot of restaurants were participating. We had just a brutal couple of days of seminars and tastings. So talk about by 3 p.m.

You just wiped out. You need a nap and then you start over again. But it was super fun. And I'm definitely looking forward to doing it again next year and contributing one next year because it's just sometimes when you do a smaller event like that, you feel more impact and it just feels very rewarding.

Yeah, that makes sense. Like when you're in the big ones like the Vegas show or even Tesla Cocktail or whatever, there's so many other brands doing their thing. Right? So for a smaller one, do you feel like you get your products across a little bit better?

Well, yes and no. For the large ones like bar and restaurant show, it was just so intense. And it's just intense. A lot of people, just a lot of things to deal with.

And with a smaller event like that, it's a little more personal. It's a more intimate. And yes, you can bring your brand across more. But of course, the exposure is smaller as well, but more meaningful from my perspective.

And it was just different. It was a different vibe. It was a week long event. I was there only for four days, but it was plenty.

And a lot of really unique cocktail paired dinners. So I see it more and more in the menus where we used to pairing food with wine, but I see it more and more now to demand for cocktail pairings with food. And that's exciting. To me, that's very exciting.

And it's very challenging at the same time. You wouldn't think so, but Cocktail's usually, you know, most of it is on the sweeter side, right? And then if you serve in four cocktails with dinner, you have to be very, very careful, you know, serving four cocktails in two hours. That could be challenging.

You have to balance it a little bit different alcohol-wise too. Yeah. So yeah, tell us a little bit about your secret for pairing with different meals. Like what kind of flavors do you try and match together when it comes to cocktails?

Because wine is a little bit easier because, you know, it's like the flavors of the wine are already there. You don't have to create them, right? Right. And it usually, wine usually has a nice balance, acidity.

It's not too sweet unless you drink in court or something, but you wouldn't do that necessarily with your entree or your appetizer. So with cocktails, it's a lot more challenging. And that's actually what I'm working on now, specifically. I'm working at a couple of VIP dinners with Hails of the Cocktail that will be happening in July.

But I'm partnering up with Henry Price. He has just an incredible selection of very unique spirits, just brilliant, unique, small batch spirits. And we're doing two VIP dinners, and we're doing cocktail pairings for those dinners. So the cuisine will be Cajun for, you know, New Orleans, traditional.

And both dinners have a completely different variety of spirits. And each cocktail, so the challenge is not used as many modifiers and celebrate the spirit, but at the same time, to serve a full cocktail without overdoing the ABV. So, you know, I'm just, I'm still working on it. I'm still trying to make sure the presentation is, you know, me over the top.

So is that your talk? If you're responsible for coming up with the cocktails and the presentation as well? Oh, yeah. So all the recipes, all the recipes, you know, and the presentation.

I'll be doing cocktails like just me. Maybe Maddie will be helping me. Maddie's always helping him. If you don't like it, right?

Yeah. Henry Price, like, is that the guy that I knew? You may hear. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So they're doing something a little different this year. Last year was very casual, if you remember. You visit a couple of dinners, right?

Yeah. Just very, very casual and kind of one spirit per dinner. And then you can just try whatever you want out of this election. This time it will be really very much brand specific.

So four brands per dinner have to be featured one cocktail per brand, no mixing. They ask not to use other spirits besides the main spirit. So it's a challenge, which I embrace. But I have only a couple more days left because I'm going to Texas on Wednesday and two days.

And then when I come back, I have another trip and then a Texas restaurant association literally two days later and then straight after is New Orleans. So I have to go to this place. Yeah. I have to do it.