E163 Denis Hernandez

This week's guest is Dennis Hernandez, who joins us for an in-person interview. Riddly-born in Woodstock, Ontario, Dennis is of El Salvadorian background where cooking, eating, and sharing food plays a prominent role in life. Dennis is a celebrated chef and entrepreneur who currently runs his own food and catering business, named H86, which is based out of Argyle Arms in Cambridge, Ontario. We had a terrific conversation with Dennis as we talked about his start in the culinary world, Dennis's dedication to using local, fresh, and sustainable products, thoughts and trends on the current culinary scene, plus to host them on the topics.

We had a terrific time hosting Dennis and talking with him, and make sure you check out his business on Instagram at h86.co or check the links in the show notes. Enjoy the show. Okay, we're back with another episode of the industry podcast. My name is Kip.

This is Dan. What's going on? I don't want you to let us go. Last couple weeks of the summer.

Have a good time yourself. Yeah, same. Can't wait for it to be over. Oh, yeah.

What? Summer sucks at the bar industry and says Western Ontario. Gotcha. Yeah, I'm looking forward to the fall.

We got out of town for a couple days, so that was good. All right. Nice. We're just going to run around in Chicago.

So, yeah. So, some of the people that we've had on the show, actually. So, it was good. Cool.

And maybe some future guests as well. Perfect. Yeah, but Chicago is still awesome for bars and restaurants in case anyone's in that neighborhood. I strongly recommend going to COVID distillery.

The bartender there is unbelievable. Can you spell that? COVID K O V A L. So, they make amazing whiskey, but now they're doing gin and vodka as well.

Bar tenders name that. I was going to get it right here. He made one of the best cocktails I've ever had. So, I just wanted to give him a quick shout out.

His name is JP. JP from COVID distillery. So, you want to check that out if you're in the Chicago area. If you're in the kitchen and water, blue area.

Cambridge, Preston. Then check out Sugar Run Downtown Kitchener. That's the speak easy. We're less coming up at the last Friday of every month.

So, by the time I was in this, I think it might be this coming Friday. Or maybe the following Friday. I get this mixed up. I won't be doing it, but.

Yeah, this will be out. You'll have 21st. Yeah, so will be the next Friday. But anyway, you want to check that out?

We're less. We also have D.J. Der Bigler every Sunday night. Stand up.

Glide stand up. We'll be a Stadler every Wednesday night. There's a lot going on there. Babylon Sisters is the bar.

Uptown Waterloo. That Babylon Sisters bar on Instagram. D.J. Payne every Friday night.

D.J. and Anna last Saturday of every month. And also starting in a couple weeks we will have, well a week. Probably, how many years into this?

We will have D.J. Penny every Thursday night doing an awesome lounge night for us. It'll be also $20 pictures of Sangria on Thursday nights. And then of course, the new spot.

Our Got Arms and Preston Ontario. That's at our Got Other Score Arms, Underscore 2023 on Instagram. You want to check that place out? We have Tridia starting shortly on Wednesday nights.

We have, we have, we have, we have Live Music Thursday Friday Saturday. And stay tuned for potentially a big announcement for Sundays coming up as well. FoodbyatH86.co. And what's that?

Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. It's at www.tacana.co for all of your graphic arts needs. He does an amazing job.

He does the artwork for the Instagram page for the industry podcast. And he also needs to talk about? No. Okay.

That covers the lines. That's it. That's it. That's it.

That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it.

That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it.

That's it. That's it. That's it. Okay.

So let's just dive right into it. We just want to talk a little bit about your career at the beginning. Talk to me about how you got into being a chef. What prompted it?

Did you always know you wanted to be in the service industry? No. Like for me, how it all started was just, I remember I was 17 or 18. I was graduating high school.

I was 19. And I'm like, okay, I need to move from my house. What am I going to get accepted to in school and college? Like, great.

We're the best. But they were good enough to get into the hospitality class or the course. So I moved to St. Catherine's because I got accepted.

Right? So I was like, okay. I was like, I'm not going to get from home. You know, what do those things?

I just wanted to move. I was home at that point. So I grew up in Woodstock. Oh, I don't.

I worked in Woodstock for seven years. Yeah. Years. None of the one on that.

No. I would see a wise. I would have to hear the whole time. And food.

Then there was nothing. Just chain restaurants and a couple of pubs. That was it. Yeah.

So it wasn't like anything in that area inspired me to cook. Not at all. Right? But obviously my parents and my aunt's and uncles all that.

I'm just, food's always been a huge part of the family. Because you were actually the rubber, you're El Salvador. Yeah. I was like, I'm a kid.

Right? Always going to my aunt's house, seeing them around the table all prepping and everything like that. Growing up, I didn't care. Right?

But as I noticed, I realized now that that was always somehow included. Right? So yeah, I remember I got accepted and I'm like, okay, like, you know, I'm going to college. I'm a big shot.

I go there. I don't know anything. I'm like the worst fucking student out of all of them. You know, like I'm seeing these guys are grabbing rags or grabbing bowls.

I'm like, what are we doing? Right? Because I have no idea. Yeah, you're like zero trading.

Zero trading. Yeah. Nothing going into this. No.

I worked at factories. I worked at doors for cars. It was like industrial, right? Yeah.

There's nothing going on at all. Maybe today is right, but they're not just not price appliances for the two. Okay. Yeah.

Well, there's at least, Tom's build buses used to be out there for a long time. And they used to have a lot of supplies for that to use. They kind of worked over to the toilet when they left. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. No, there was a place. Okay. Yeah.

I can't see anything nice. Don't see anything at all. You know why it's not that bad. Growing up there, I loved it.

Growing up as a kid. You know what I mean? Just they don't know any better. I've learned that now.

I didn't know. I didn't care because I always grew up here in Cambridge. Every weekend we were in Kitchener, Cambridge. Every weekend we were never there.

So that's why around the area I've always come back here because this is where all my family is. I was born in Cambridge but then I moved there, lived there for like 17 years and then I moved all over. So I get into college. I don't know anything.

I'm so intimidated by everything. I always bullshit it. I remember kitchen every worked and I remember hearing someone talking about some more key work. So I was like oh yeah I'll just say that so I don't look.

So all I ended up doing from there was just like when we got done class. I got home and I actually started practicing. I remember I got my first job at OAS bar in St. Catharines called players.

I think it's still there. It's still there. So I have to get my foot in somewhere. So I go to this bar and it is just shit.

I'm sorry. It is free from the front end. Basically cabbage, lettuce is all come cut in. Mushrooms are already pretty sliced.

Garlic butter already made for you. All the shit that I would never do today. So then I'm like okay this is cool. And then I think that's where I fell in love with the industry.

It was just the environment. You know what I mean? That's the inner rush that. And then it's the lifestyle.

Being out till three, four in the morning. Doing it again the next day. When you're in 1920. And you're in the bill for it or you're not.

People figure it out pretty quick. And the people who don't. People will figure it out for you. And that's where that happened.

I remember being there and I'm like okay. Back then I was like oh man to have the manager tell me I'm doing a great job. It was a big thing. As I look at it today.

I would not take a compliment from these. On a disrespectful way. It's just that it's a lot different cooking of what I like to do today. But at least you knew you could handle the fucking weight.

It was insane. It was like a crime of doughs on a week night. Every day though. Right but it wasn't a wing night.

It was just a two man line. And we do like two, three hundred people. At least like yeah maybe you didn't learn the fucking intricacies of fine dining cooking. But you learned how to work the line.

So that's a valuable later on. It was huge. Today what we try to push is that you do quality as quality. As those places it's just quality.

Sorry. You do learn that. You definitely do in a place like that. Which is good to learn today.

What really happened was I remember after that I moved back here. Because I got into of course here at Conestoga. And then I started working at Caesar Martinis. Everybody should know.

Everybody university. Everybody was around there. Right? Yeah.

Fubar I think was around the corner. And I remember actually, I'll give him a shout out because I remember him being a part of my beginning. It was like Bruce. And then I just started seeing a little bit more elevated.

Do you mean more? Just more care? All of that. And then I worked for him for a year while at school.

And then what really really changed everything was I went back to Niagara. I was in St. Catharines and started working at Peler States. So Peler States.

Winery just took me from like I think I'm good to like I'm back. Like the first day of college. Yeah. I'm not doing them back.

Well the whole different style of college. It was insane. You know you walk through the door like night in the morning and you smell the bread being done. You see people making the butters.

You know what I mean? And I'm like what the fuck is going on? Right? And then it's just everything.

You smell all the pots of wine just reducing. And it's just it was insane. And I could still smell that. It's crazy.

Like some days they still have that smell of like the wine and then the bread. It's just it's crazy to still think about that because that would have been in 2008. So still like 15, 16 years later that that's so cool. And then I worked there.

I did a season. And then I was like, oh, I got fired. I was just for straight up, right? Because when you live in St.

Catharines it's a crazy scene. And when you work in a place like that, which is as great as it is, you don't show. Just don't come. You know what it means?

It was one of those. So that's what happened there. And then the Paler States to this day I think is what completely changed my whole view on what food is and what it should be. And I love it because back then I remember how much he was like if it's not Canadian we don't use it.

Right? So that whole local thing. Right? It's huge now.

It always has been. It's not everywhere now. And it was like if you were doing the local farm to table shit that was kind of like said you were parked from other places now it's almost like everyone's doing it. Yeah.

Right? And everyone says they're doing it. You know what I mean? But like I think there's nine, like I don't know what they're saying.

I'd say 40% of them are saying it. But are they actually doing it? Yeah. That's the thing too.

Like I can tell you I use T&JC food. I'm using local. Maybe I'm getting fucking money. Which is not local at all.

But I am using a local guy. Right? But it was just the way you don't make ice wine butter and things like that. It just things that.

Pretty fucking cool. Blue one. Yeah. I think it was like 20 or 21.

Right? So this is the point where you would say like your whole perspective on everything changed. Yeah. Like now like you went.

Well and it's like pretty grassy because you're coming from like you know Cisco bag food that you're just heating up basically to like now like little legit chef work. Yeah. And I remember too because they did a phone interview and they had the arrogance right of being a young guy and I remember on the phone again I'm pretty good at what I do. You know on the phone with them and he's like oh okay cool man you know we do okay you know.

The solution was very like you know like I think you're walking into a shit show buddy. Yeah. And then I get there and he was like okay Dennis. Break down that salmon.

Oh right away. And I was like okay go upstairs and like 300 plates clean for me. Oh wow. Oh wow.

It's interesting. And like okay so how do you feel about that style of training someone is that like the way to do it. I listen. But it's just unfortunate.

Not that it's unfortunate but you just can't really do that. You can. A place like that I think right that thrives and meets certain criterias. I don't think it has changed.

I really really don't. I just think now and I think you've experienced this is that the lack of people that we can get. We have to kind of tip toe now. Oh fuck.

Right. And that's what shitty like luckily for me well Josh. Yeah like the suit. Yeah Josh knows my way.

He knows my style so it's a lot easier right. And Josh and I have a good relationship where I can leave him there and not worry about it. But if you got somebody new to come in and they fuck up you got to be like hey man please do better next time. I know.

Before it wasn't that. You know. You know. You know.

You grew up in the same era of the service industry as me whereas I know I'm older than you but like the but the same style. I'll link back then. It's like we all know anyone who's been in the service industry and was listening to the show knows how it used to be compared to how it is now. And I'm not saying we need to go back to fucking Gordon Ramsay style.

Like I don't think there's a place for that anymore either. But I do think we have gone too far to the point where you can't say anything to anybody. Like I feel like I'm almost in a box in the corner now where I can't even just tell somebody they're doing a shitty job. And if you do like you're taking that massive risk of losing.

You're just so for sure. And we can't afford it because it's not enough people and they'll make a post on social media. Oh yeah. People just want to go into that.

Like just stop. It's almost not worth it. But if I think about the position we're being put in. But we're being put in a position where we have to accept lower quality than we want to expect.

And because we're afraid of losing people or afraid of that person saying something shitty about us online. And it's like what's the trade on? Because it's better to have some disgruntled former employee say something shitty about you or to be poor quality. Because they're static.

So if I had to answer. I'd rather have someone say something bad. I think so too. And we want you to get it.

But then you also have to worry about like labor-based compulsive. Like is there a hell of a fucking baby now. And I think the only thing that hasn't changed with me is that if you're really affecting quality or whatever. I think the old still comes out.

Like okay. I really don't fucking know. I think that still needs to stay under industry. Because there's so much food and network bullshit.

It's just so watered down. It's so sad to see how watered down it is. The one thing that pisses me off the most is like there's a three. And he's like yeah you know I'm a chef here.

I'm a chef there. And it's like I don't care about the title. That doesn't bother me. But I think to have that title.

You do have to do the work. And it's more than just how you manage and all that. The only reason I have the title of my position is because well I have to order and do schedules. Besides that I'm just a cook with you.

But I hate when I hear a cook. Just I'm a chef. I don't know why it just involves me. Maybe that's just because of the respect I've always shown chefs that I've worked for.

That I feel like these guys are so dope. You know what I mean? Like that title is something. It should be thrown around.

And people will give jobs out there hiring executive chef. And this is just from a recent situation. They're like hiring executive chef. But then you get in there and they're like no we want this.

Then you're looking for a fucking kitchen manager. What do you consider the difference between a chef and a kitchen manager? I think a kitchen manager, someone who can run a program really well like a crabby or any of those chain ones. They're all successful in a way that the upper people make it for them to be like this is how we want it.

Now you execute it. As if you like someone who takes more of a role as a head chef, whatever, has that freedom to create. There's a massive thing coming in with the recipes, with the menus. This doesn't work.

That doesn't work. That's to me the biggest difference. And there's no disrespect to any kitchen manager or whatever. And look how successful all these chains are.

There's a reason because the people up above make it foolproof. As for us, we're idiots and we make it harder on ourselves. All the time. Yeah.

So how would you describe your style cooking? Because obviously you have the influence of your background. And then you also have the influence under training. That's the hardest question ever.

I don't even know what I have an answer for it. I really like the French text niques to prep everything. So there's a certain way that you do that style. But I won't say that I have any certain...

It's really hard to say. Honestly, man, growing up, I've had so many jobs. I've learned so much. So back then growing up, yeah, that was bad.

But today I can take it as... Man, I got to work for so many. Wicked and shitty chefs. Or kitchen managers.

Whatever they work. And I've just been so blessed to be able to take that. Even working on... I've never worked in a chain.

I don't think I have... But you don't even get into that point. You don't really like how this guy sears up. So it's not that I have a certain style.

I just like to take... Just fucking make food taste good, man. I don't really know how to say a style. That's always the tough part because people ask me that.

But because it was almost like I was a foster kid of the industry. I worked everywhere. I don't have a style where I'll bring influence of Spanish, or bring it in from Asia, or bring it in from Gran Turkin, or whatever it is. So style.

Okay, so when you're putting that... Obviously you've had all these influences. And you've put together into what makes Chef Dennis Hernandez. So when you're planning a menu at a different place, and I know you do a lot of consulting work now.

And you also have your own business, A.J. 6, which runs out of my business, Argyle. And so that's like a pop style. And now that's probably not what you ever thought you were going to be doing at this stage in your career.

But it was an opportunity to run your own business. And you've also worked in ultra fine dining. Then I had Chef at like, hasn't been up to time, which is like ultra fine dining approach that you brought to that. And then you've had consulting gigs with bars.

When you've done the executive chef stuff in Stratford, you've done consulting work now with the Foundry, and what Farmly Brewing, it's all over the place. So I guess where I'm going with this is how do you take all of these influences and all of these styles you've learned about and then create a menu specific for the place? What's your approach? So it would be the demographics.

That's the main thing to me, right? It's like being impressive. We've gone back and forth quite a bit of this. Yeah.

Right? And it has to be a certain price point. The main thing I want to really emphasize is you can prepare food, like you're going to charge $50 a plate, even if you're just doing a fucking fish and chip. You know what I mean?

There's no reason that you need to bring in a battery already pre-done. You don't have, no, just do it all in house. The first thing I'll look at is legitimately the demographics. What area are we in?

What are they looking for? But the one thing I do, no matter what, anywhere that I'm at, the main thing is just making sure that we're making as much as possible. So for me to be making it all in house as much as we can, we're doing our buns in house and all that there now, and even though we're just a pub, you can still do that kind of shit, right? You don't have to take a quality down just because you're a pub.

You really don't have to. Well, and I think one of the challenges that you and I had when we started this thing is we didn't really know what our demographic was going to be at, right? You knew the area better than I did because you were born there, right? And your family still lived there, but I didn't know it at all.

And we didn't know who was going to be coming. I thought it could be a pretty rough fucking crowd that was coming there, right? So like when I started with the beers, I was like, oh, let's just get some shitty Molson beer, right? And then when we found, I think we've sort of come to a level where it's like, well, it's a pub, but we're going to do a little bit more elevated, and your food is more elevated.

Now I'm like, well fuck all that Molson shit, let's just bring good local crap beers in. And it turns out it's kind of working like that's what people want, right? But we didn't know, right? And it's hard with a new spot.

And I think the first thing I put out there was maybe a little too adventurous for press, again, we talked about price point, right? And price point was something, right? And that's where I'm trying to again continue. Like how can we still do this quality stuff and charge the right price?

Right. That's fucking hard. That is so hard right now to charge the right price when everything's so expensive. Everything's so expensive plus the style that you, the quality that you want to maintain takes labor.

Like so you're going to pay fucking people to practice shit properly. And it's more difficult because we started with really nothing, right? We didn't have a base. Other places where I've helped or I've worked, right?

They've there's been something at least a kind of work off of. But doing our guy was a whole different fucking thing. Where? You know, it's like, oh shit, man, which way do we go here?

Where do we go here? I fucking, you know, fish chips forever took me to put on the menu. Yeah, and that's probably one of the best moving things on the right? But we do it really well.

That's the thing, right? Like the batter, obviously, and housing. You know, some people I've heard, like, I don't think that's a big thing, but maybe it is. And you know, doing like the nice, smash peas instead of your typical, what the fuck was on?

First piece, microwave, the cup, the cheese. Just keep it, it's just a mint and lemon. And that's just to keep it refreshing because everything's fucking deep right. So you've got to find that, but then we do the truffle rem a lot with it too instead of, you know, a tartar with, you know, gherkins and fucking whatever, whatever.

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, yeah, and I think that that's sort of where we've landed is like, well, we'll stick with sort of a pub style theme, but just elevate the concept a little bit. And I think it's catching on.

It's just, we'll just see. The summer's always tough, but like, because earlier you said, I can't wait for the summer to be over. So with you? No, I'm the way.

I love summer. But like you said, business is a little bit tough. It's not the summer, right? So I want summer to be done.

Well, the problem is like, and I turn you here all the time to it and be like, what summer? Like, should be awesome. Like, you know, Pat, you know, you don't understand. We live in the area of the world where it's shitty weather for so much of the year that when summer finally comes, everybody goes away from the weekend and unfortunately, since the pandemic, all the business is concentrated on the weekend.

People are going out on a weeknight so they used to do it anymore. So then you're like, okay, great. I got Friday and Saturday to make all my money. And then people go away on Friday Saturday because they live in the kitchen.

I want to live. And I was like, fuck this. That's, yes, it's almost. What are you looking to do with A.T.A.S.S.I.E.

now? I know you, when you first meet up to me, but potentially you look, you know, I was looking for a business partner to work with at the Argyll. And you want to start your own company. Where do you, where are you looking for this to grow in the future?

What are you hoping to do? My whole goal. And I think we just, I want to, I want to do our own thing. You know what I mean?

Like going Argyll, again, I'm happy we're there. I'm there and everything going on. But we were still restricted because of being what it was. So I'm still not doing what I want, but I can do whatever I want, which is pretty solid, right?

So my whole goal with all of this is just, you know, to, to sooner than later get to my own operation where it is all me. And the only reason I'm buzzing my ass doing all these certain things is just because I don't want to borrow any money. I don't want to get any sort of debt. I don't want to have loans.

I don't want anyone being like, Hey man, I put in 10 grand. You, fuck off. You know what I mean? If not, then someone 5050 were like, and that's why I love the partnership we have.

You do you mean? I do mean? Yes. We talk once a week about certain things.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. Right. And that's the whole goal. And to be honest with you, man, like the company too is just, um, I think a lot of things are missing out again, right?

About the basics of food, right? Of how to certain things, I'm starting to see that more and more and more. And I think it's just good to be able to get out there and see young cooks, right? And get them ready for the future.

I think that's the job of anybody who runs a kitchen or whatever is for us to get the young ones ready for, you know what I mean? Like they're, they're time moving forward. Whether you're running a bar, whether you're running a kitchen, as long as we can lead and mentor well, right? I think we can set them up.

Yes. And what I like, kind of like I'm excited about about what you're doing at the Argonne going forward is that like, I feel like the whole service industry, like the restaurant styles, like, you know what's been squeezed out since the pandemic is like those sort of middle of the road places. They're either the fucking cheap ass, like, like, like, chain style restaurant, like a, what's that fucking place that does it, that tries to undercut everybody's pride. Oh, Chuck's roadhouse.

Yeah. Fuck. Yeah. So Chuck's roadhouse or you're doing like a ultra-pion.

And it's like the middle of the road places. But so what I kind of like about what we're doing at Argonne, like you're specifically doing with the food, is that we're trying to do that. So we bring back the sort of in between those two things. Like it's not ultra-fine dining, but it's not like the crap in a bag, right?

So it's like, so there is a place for that now. And I think that I really hope that the industry comes back to places. People need all kinds of different places, man. Like we can't just have fucking shitty fast food or shitty, like, like, lowest content on our other bars or ultra-fine.

There's gotta be another way out. But those quick service workers killed it for the pandemic. Well, you see what they ever right? Yes, I remember just seeing how it was just insane.

But what you said too, right? I kind of think that they're, yeah, bringing back that whole middle spot for everybody. Yeah. And I think that's like, my goal is that our place is for everybody.

It is. Whether, you know what I mean? You're a suit and tie guy or you're just fucking like me shorts and sandals and what I mean. Like, I love you too, because I've been you on its own, like, man, like, you want to come in and have fish and chips and notches?

Well, we have the Tunis and VJ with a barata or whatever. So there's always a bunch of different options on ours. And I think that's where we're doing well. And that's why I'm excited to hear that you're bringing all the craft now, right?

Yeah, well, that's the thing. Like, you just didn't know at the beginning. But now that we've sort of kind of figured, I think, I was very concerned at the beginning that we needed to keep the crowd that was already coming there because that was like, well, now we've got a base crowd that knows about the place. Yeah.

And, but they didn't really come back. So no matter what we did, so now it's just kind of like the idea as well. Let's just create our own new craft there. And like, we're doing it.

We're doing it. We're doing it. Like the area still the area, but we're doing it a little bit differently. And we're in there now three months, right?

So I think that best thing is now, I wouldn't, we were still new, but I think people now have come to expect what we're going to do, right? Which is kind of a nice feeling because, you know, at the beginning, like you said, man, I'm like, oh, my restaurant's fucking stuck. They really did it, right? Like, this is the first one of open, but it's the first one that's been a part of like this.

So it's a lot different where it's just reading out the crowd and I never thought it'd be so much. It's really hard. It's, it's fucking scary. Man, it's like you can go through these periods where it's like, holy fuck, how am I making no money?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard.

But it's like, you get to the point where like, I've done enough times now that I know, like, if we just stick to what, if we just figure out what we need to do and then stick to that, then the people will come. And but every time I do it, I still have the stress and the panic. I just have a little bit less every time. You start to gain confidence in the fact that you know what the fuck you're doing, right?

And you've obviously been part of opening a bunch of different restaurants, but never for yourself. Yeah, no, right. So the stress is a different level. It's all the worst, right?

Because it's all on me on this. But it's also that satisfaction, right? Of knowing that people are content coming. Right?

That's, well, there's a level satisfaction and like pride of like owning your own shit too, right? Like, it's not, it's like, it's way more stressful than working for somebody else, but it's way more satisfying. That's how I find it. Yeah.

Do you see any new trends in cooking coming down or have we kind of seen everything that's been done and it's just tweaking it? There's new trends always coming out. Like right now what I've noticed is huge is molds. Molds are coming out like molds like garnishing molds or you know what I mean?

Like there's these mold brothers. Molds are just coming out there fucking insane. It's like a lattice and shit and you build on. It's just getting insane.

So molds, Instagram worthy. That's right. 100% right? Yeah.

So I know exactly what you're talking about. All the new trend is just to make it look really good. Yeah. And the thing too, I've noticed is just, you know, I see some playthings and they're gorgeous, but then they put a mold on top of it.

And it's like, you just covered that plate, right? So why would you take all that time to make it look beautiful and put a mold on top and then build on that mold? And that's the, again, there's nothing against it, right? That's just what people do.

It's just, that is the biggest thing I've seen. What else is going out there, man? Like, this is inside how important do you find plaything is? Plaything is massive.

Yeah. I believe it. Yeah. Especially because of Instagram.

Right? Social media is really, it's insane to see people fuck this food and it looks fucking awesome. They really does. But like, how do you even know it tastes good?

You know what I mean? Playing is a huge thing today. So more important than ever. I'll be cutting Instagram.

I believe so. Yeah. That's what you think about it, right? First thing you see, when food comes to you, right?

And then also, the second thing you see is somebody taking their phone and taking their phone. I know I can't go to dinner with my wife without her taking a picture of everything. Everything on the table before I'm allowed to touch you. Yeah.

And yeah, no, playing playing is massive. It really is because, like you said, right? That's what comes to the table. And you want people to take photos.

Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah.

Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Sure. Yeah. So yeah, slight smell tastes right in terms of. But also it's free promotion for you.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like played has definitely...

The level has gone crazier. Yeah. Yeah. And it's called the gastronomy shit using powders and using you know what I mean?

I go, whatever, whatever. Whatever it is that you're using food is just going so fucking scientific. It's insane. Yes, the exact same thing as that and most popular.

And I tell you to wonder if we're going to come back around to the point where it's like, people are just going to start going back to the classics now because we've done almost everything there is to fucking do. And that's what I try to go with. Just bringing it back to more simplicity than anything. Right?

Yeah, I like using things like that. I'm not a big molecular kind of guy. You know what I mean? You don't see my kitchen with tabby-o-kim.

You don't want to be curious about some burgers? You know, all we have in ours is probably soy less than we have in Eggar egg. And that's all we really have. One is just to more create air.

And the other one is just to create a little, just more, just the way that your period turns out. So like your style is more traditional. 100%. So back to the question.

Yeah. So I like doing more of the classic shit. Just bringing it up with a little bit of a twist. That's what I like to do.

And that's all I can really do. We're not reinventing really not everything. Well, I'm thinking we get to the point where everything's been fucking done already. And this constant push to when I was doing the store in Chicago, just drinking all these cocktails, I went to somebody so they'd just fucking killed it.

Like I was mentioning on NJP at COVA, but also I went to another cocktail bar. And it was just fucking masturbatory, like what they were doing with the cocktails. Just putting a billion different garnishes on it, 17 different ingredients. And it's just like at the end of it, it's just like, there's nothing to this.

What you're saying time to is I think here in Waterloo region, like are we ready for it? You know what I mean? Go to a place like Chicago. There's a whole different scene.

So here in Waterloo, like are we ready for? You know, in the Arthas, it's going to be appreciated as it would in a city like Chicago or not. And that's what the tough part I think in the city is where we want to take this high as we can to do everything. But then it's just like are the people really ready to have that experience?