E170 Louise Wilson Cormier

This week's guest is Louise Wilson-Cormier, who is the owner of Wilco Fine Beverage, an Ontario-based beverage alcohol agency. Louise is also an accredited Master of Wine, of which there are only 10 in Canada. We have a terrific interview with Louise where we talk about how Louise got her start in the industry. We discuss the path and steps required to become a member of the Institute of Master of Wine, and we cover the process of getting a product into the LCBO.

Make sure you check out Louise's portfolio of products at WilcoFine Beverage.com and check the show notes for all the links. Enjoy the show. Okay, we're back with another episode of the industry podcast. I'm Kip, this is Dan.

What's going on? It's another week back at work as usual, so make it a world go round as I always do. Make yourself how things go with you. Everything's good, Oktoberfest is finally over, so hopefully we can get some business again up in the stall.

I guess we're moving into the Christmas season actually. Like Halloween, Christmas parties should be good. Yeah, nice. How's things going on?

Three bars. Well, we just went off Oktoberfest, so that was not great. But like you said, it's good things to come, and if you wanted to book a Christmas party, let's do that. You should reach out.

You can reach us directly by email info at sugarrun.ca or at sugarrunbar on Instagram for the Speakeasian Kitchener at Babylon Sisters Bar or Janine at Babylon Sisters.ca. If you want to book at the Babylon Sisters Bar in Uptown Waterloo or at Argyll Arms and Preston, it's hello at argyllarms.ca or on Instagram at Argyll Arms underscore 2023. Check out a couple of our underscores in the know right now. Maybe a few more numbers.

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Louise Wilson-Cormier is joining us. How are you? I'm doing good, Kim. Thanks very much for having me.

Well, thanks for doing this. We met a few weeks ago when you reached out and offered to taste wine for your wine portfolio, your own company, Wilco, W-I-L-C-O. Let's just start right now and tell people where they can find out on the internet or on Instagram. Yeah, so my agency is Wilco Find Beverage, and it's WilcoFindBeverage.com, or we're also on Instagram under Wilco Find Beverage.

So we got talking and I learned a lot about you during the time we were just drinking wine together. I can highly recommend Louise's Wine Agency. It's an amazing wine there. She also reps for a couple of good spots in Niagara on the lake, divergence and good earth.

Correct? Yeah, that's right. Thanks so much, Kim. No worries.

And so how did you decide on the name Wilco, by the way? Well, my last name is Wilson-Cormier. Oh, I thought you said that. That seems to make sense.

Now that I think about it, I was thinking about the bandwidth. That's not like a two-hour-old right here. I do get asked that. Yeah.

So I wanted to get into talking about how you make the leap to start your own agency. But before that, let's talk a little bit about what we were kind of discussing when we were drinking together, which was how you're one of 10 Masters of Wine in Canada. Yeah, that's right. I am very happy to say I am a Master of Wine.

It's been an exciting journey. And I'm happy to talk a little bit about how that went for me. So I'm just going to give a little primer to listeners who don't know. There are two different programs you can take.

There's the Master of Somalia program or there's the Master of Wine program. They're completely separate. Totally different. Obviously both Wine Education programs, but they're not affiliated in any way.

So you did the Master of Wine side. We took the W-SAT courses, which I guess is on the Somalia side. So I'm sort of interested in knowing the differences, but we're not going to get into that specifically. But let's talk about how you got into Wine originally and how you decided to do this program because it's like a massive undertaking.

Yeah, I'd love to talk a little bit about that. So quite a few years ago, I found myself working in Wine Retail. I lived in Victoria in British Columbia and was working in a really nice wine shop. And I realized my wine knowledge was less than it needed to be.

So I just started with the wine courses, thinking I'll just learn a little bit more to add to my knowledge here for work. And I started with the International Somalia Guild. So there's course wine, introductory course and took that, finished, realized, hey, I have a lot of questions. There's still a lot more to learn.

So I just kept going. You know, course two and course three. And at the end of that, you graduate as a certified Somalia. And still I still felt there's so much more to learn in the world of wine.

So I went on to WSTT and wrote the diploma exams. And during that time, I was working for Andrew Peller Limited. And we had a presentation by a master of wine called Barbara Phillip. And I was so impressed with her presentation.

And she really got me interested in the master of wine program. So that evening after dinner, I asked her all the questions I possibly could. And I decided, even though I still hadn't finished the WSTT diploma, I thought, that's definitely what I want to do. And so once I finished my WSTT diploma, I applied to become a master one candidate and went through the program.

And how long did that take? Well, it's individual for everyone. The master of wine is an institute that started in London, England in the fifties. And basically, if you want to become a member of the master of wine, you need to pass a theory exam, a practical exam, and then finally write your own original research.

So really how long that takes is depending on the individual. And for me, it took quite a while. It took 10 years for me to finish that to get through and become finally a master of wine. So it's theory, practical, and then research portion.

What did you focus on? So my research was studying Canadian consumers' attitudes towards vegan and vegetarian wine. Oh, wow. Yeah, so it was really interesting to me, especially because I did the research in 2019 and 20.

And so this is even a few years ago now. And I think the awareness of vegan and vegetarian wine has even increased since then. So I found that would be interesting. Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that there's such a thing as vegan wine or that there needs to be, right?

So yeah, because most people wouldn't even consider that wine is not vegan. Yeah, that was one of the starting points of my early research was just realizing that quite a few people didn't realize that it might not be. And so, and then once we talked about, okay, what it is, sometimes mining agents might be based on animal products. And then we tested, so their attitudes towards vegan and vegetarian wine.

Do you feel positive? Do you feel neutral? Do you feel negative? And that was the basis of the research.

So it's basically polling certain amount of people. Like how many people did you question? Oh, okay, this is a few years ago, but I would say at least a thousand. Oh, wow.

And you know what's interesting is all of the research papers that are done by Masters of Wine in the recent years are posted on the Masters of Wine website. So if you're interested in reading my actual paper or there's so many fascinating topics on the website, those research papers are available to access. And the address is masters of wine.org. If learning about those kinds of things is of interest.

Well, I don't want to give away the ending or anything, but like what did you, like I'm just sort of, this is what you got you want to show here. What did you find? What was your hypothesis at the end of your paper? Well, what I found was that there were a percentage of Canadian consumers that were, that had positive attitudes towards vegan and vegetarian wine, but then there was another subset of consumers that had negative attitudes toward vegan and vegetarian wine.

So it wasn't, you know, necessarily one way or the other. So I think my final conclusion at the time, if you had a portfolio that you have some vegan and vegetarian wine, but not necessarily all. So that was sort of the conclusion I came to based on that research. And what do you think the negative attitudes would be as like sort of like a stigma against vegan and vegetarian?

Yeah, it could be or just, I'm trying to think, you know, just, just maybe a stigma against that or, you know, could be sort of questioning, you know, is this a marketing, is this marketing information? There's maybe just not understanding it. Maybe being concerned about, would it cost more? You know, does it even pertain to me?

Right. You said that some of the reasons why. Interesting. And so when you like, when you present this paper, you just have to present it like in thesis format, you actually have to present it like you just handed the paper and you have to actually present makeup presentation.

No, it's written. Thank you. And how long was it? So are these are some technical questions.

I just find it interesting. Do you remember how long? The paper needs to be between 6,000 and 10,000 words. And I think my issue was getting under 10,000 words.

I think mine might have been 9,990 or something like that. It's crazy. Crazy undertaking. So then for the theory and the practice, I assume that's just like, well, I'm telling me if I'm wrong, but like that's more just furthering wine education and doing writing some exams, like some of this would be tasting, wine tasting, some of it would be just written exams.

Yeah, absolutely. So the exam is held once a year. So you get a chance to write and pass the exam once a year. And when you first attempt it, you start by writing the practical, which is the tasting exam and the theory exam together.

Currently the theory exam, it's a five day exam. No, wow. The practical or the tasting part is three of those days. So I think it goes you taste in the morning and then you write the theory in the afternoon.

So it's a pretty intensive week. The practical or the tasting basically for each day, there's 12 wines in front of you. You don't know what they are and you need to identify them based on possibly great variety, region, quality, commercial positioning, winemaking, those kind of things. So it could be any wine.

And then the questions could be any of those things I discuss and you need to not just answer what it is, but answer your logic behind what it is. So it's actually a really fun exercise. I really enjoy doing that sort of logical deduction of figuring out what's in the glass. Right.

I'm fascinated by that too. And so it's kind of like showing your work in a way. Like you can't just say, oh, this is what I think it is. You ought to show why you think it's that way, why you think that's what it is.

It is kind of a math problem at the end of the day, right? Like if you know, like obviously you're using your senses to figure out the, the, what what you're getting on the nose and then your palate and your finish or whatever is going to give you a roadmap to where you think, what kind of, what you think that wine is. So how first do you develop your senses and palate to just to start with that? Well, I think it's a lot of this is just experience, you know, whether it's industry experience or you filled in your gaps with studying, but basically you have to be familiar with what different types of wine are expected, you know, to smell and taste like and structure is a big part of, you know, detecting what's in the glass.

I mean, tannic structure, acid structure, alcohol, body, those kinds of things. Those are all clues, right? And they all add up pointing to a certain direction and give you the answer to what the wine is. So it's really a fun process to do it that way.

Yeah. So it's, it's one of the cooler things, because it is like detective work and a math problem, but it's also you have to use your senses. There aren't many things like that in the world, really. And you're kind of, so you have to fall back on the knowledge that you've studied and learned, but it is also so co-joined with your palate and your sensory experience.

Yeah, you're right, Kevin. It's really interesting being that the exam is partly physical, right? To smell and taste. It's partly your theory or your knowledge of what you're tasting.

What does that mean? So there's really the two sides to it. So yeah, it's really quite interactive. It's crazy.

And like to undertake something like that, you want to do the amount of work that goes into achieving that designation that you have is like, you really have to be passionate about wine. You do have to be passionate about wine, but really I'm passionate about continuing to learn. And still at this point, there's things that I learn every single day and things are always evolving and changing the wine world. So there's always more to learn.

So I would say my first passion is wanting to continue to learn and stay in that mode of learning and also of sharing my knowledge. That's a big part of the philosophy of Master of Wine is also to share our knowledge with other people and make it accessible. And that's really important to me as well. I also like a good challenge.

So it sounded like a great challenge and that really attracted me to it. So there's also, I know you mentioned in your bio that there's a sort of code of etiquette that goes with being a Master of Wine as well. Can you explain that to us? Yeah, a code of ethics.

Sure. Yeah. So once you pass, once your research paper is accepted, then the final thing before, you know, your ceremony is signing the code of ethics. And it is really a big part of being a Master of Wine is because we do represent the Institute.

So we want to make sure that we're acting ethically as we move through our wine business and represent the Institute properly. Interesting. So the other thing I was going to ask you about this program, I don't know if this is even a situation anymore, but like I know certainly quite a few years ago, there weren't a lot of women who were going out to these types of designations who were the were prominent women, suballiers, women, masters of wine. Did you find any Roblox in that scenario or does that just change now?

In my personal experience, I haven't had any issues like that, although I'm aware maybe in different circumstances, there might be, but the Institute very much is about diversity and inclusion. And that's an important part of who we are as well. That's good. Because I know that like what back in the day was sort of an old boys club, the whole wine experience, right?

Like, so it's good to know that that. Well, again, in my opinion, I haven't faced that personally. So I can't personally speak to it. I've had a, you know, I felt fairly treated in my experience in the wine business.

That's good. And so at what point did you decide that you wanted to start your own agency? Because that's a big undertaking as well. Yeah.

Well, you know, I saw a course online by Charles Stephen Trinholm and it's called Importing Wines, Beers, and Spirits for Pleasure and Profit. You know, and I had seen that advertised on the internet, on Facebook or whatever, for a few years. And I thought, that's interesting. Again, I'm always wanting to learn, right?

I'm like, well, I decided the business that I don't know. So I finally ended up taking his course and it just sparked a bigger interest in me. And I thought, yeah, I'm really interested in starting my own business. So what, like, how do you, like, it seems like I'm actually undertaking to me.

Like I've opened bars, but like starting an agency, like you have to acquire a product and you have to, like, you personally have to seek out the wineries that you want to deal with. Like, talk to us a little bit about how you started that all process. Yeah, there's different ways to go about it. But certainly you do need suppliers that want to work with you.

So for me personally, I ended up going to VNExpo in Paris and there's, you know, thousands of suppliers there. And so you can set meetings that we can meet with suppliers from regions that you're interested in or that have wines that you're interested in and taste their wines and meet them directly, talk about business, talk about the opportunity in Ontario. And for me, I found that to be a really efficient way of meeting with suppliers. And I thought it was a great show.

So I ended up doing that and started working with some suppliers. And then everything in Ontario is done through the LCBO. So no agents are actually importing wine. We simply represent those producers that are producing wine outside of Ontario or outside of Canada.

And all the wine flows through the LCBO, but we can promote and represent the wines on their behalf. And when you say that you, he sort of went to the sex well and you set meetings with some of the producers that you were interested in. So are these wines you had already tried previously to go into Paris? Or was it like you went there to try the wines and then send me?

Yeah, no, the mind suppliers are really, they're small family producers. And so it was definitely not wine that I had specifically tasted or come across before. But just reading their profiles, knowing the kinds of wines they were making, the fact that it was small, personal wine, that it was a family business, those were the kinds of meetings that I wanted to take when I was at VNExpo. And so, yeah, I signed up for meetings and likewise, if they were interested in exporting to Ontario, then we had the mutual interest and got together and went from there.

What I was looking for really are wines with a point of difference. So I like, you know, you've tasted some of the wines and there's some really rare and unique grape varieties. And I think one of the most exciting things for me is introducing people to something different. So whether it's some of my wines that I've got with grape varieties like Rucay or Green Yolino or Dogli, adult shadow, those kind of grape varieties, I think I like to share those with people.

And I've also got producers that are producing biodynamic wine or organic wine. So really something different. And I really like to be able to share those unique wines with consumers in Ontario. Yeah.

And that's why I started tasting with you, this is like a match made between your agency and my bar because that's exactly what we try and do at Babylon Sisters, which is to offer some grape varieties that people are not used to and sort of do a little education with the wine sale. And I know a fair amount of wine, I've taken some courses and stuff, but it was amazing. You're the first person who showed up to taste with me who had multiple wines based on grape varieties I had never heard of. And with someone who asked them wine education, so you really do focus on that.

And would you say that that's kind of like the focus of the agency is to sort of some out of the ordinary varietals? Yeah, definitely out of the ordinary varietals or something special about how the wine is made or where it's made, something like I said with a point of difference. And yeah, I think you and I do have that in common one different to consumers. And so yeah, that was a great tasting.

I also really like wines that have a sense of place. So they taste and they feel like they come from somewhere specific. Like that wine you just wouldn't find anywhere else. You know, and I really like that about wine.

I feel like wine, it's not just delicious and enjoyable. It's also intellectual. So I really like thinking about what was behind this wine or what was behind this grape variety like the the UK that we talked about, for example, that grape variety, you know, it's got quite a long history, but it was almost lost, you know, in the vines there in Piedmont, but but one priest decided to resurrect it and bring it back. And now it's the pride and joy of Montferrato.

So, you know, even though it's still a relatively rare grape variety there, you know, it's something that they're very proud of and they saved from becoming extinct. And I think that's a great story and I want to share it with people. Yes. And that bouquet is available at Babylon Sisters right now.

If anyone is listening and wants to come try it, it is an outstanding one. Yeah. It's also kind of a good approach from a business standpoint. I know you're maybe I don't know if that's a factor and you're thinking about this, but like obviously you are interested in the education and you have a love for wine, but it also does make your agency stand out in that you're doing something different.

And there are so many agencies now and a lot of them are bringing like the same types of wine because they know that's what sells in like the chain restaurants or whatever, right? But your approach is actually going to make your agency stand out a little bit. That's something different because you are bringing in these varietals that many people haven't heard from. Yeah.

I think there's a lot of great agencies out there and a lot of great wine at all different price points. And I think there's a place for all of it, you know, even even more mainstream varieties of varieties that were more familiar with. I think there's definitely a place for those obviously. But for me, this portfolio reflects what I like.

Yeah. And so I guess at this point in my career, it's a reflection of what I personally would want to offer my friends and family. And it's a reflection of what I wanted to build. So I'm glad that I found people like yourself that share that similar interest.

I'm glad there's a market for it, but really it just came from my experience and my passion as to why I wanted to bring forward. So not so much a conscious desire to make your agency a little bit different, but it just sort of happens to end in a workout. Honestly, I know that sounds like the world's worst business plan, but I was really just following my heart and I ended up with an amazing group of producers and some fantastic wines. And so I feel really thankful that it worked out.

But yeah, it wasn't actually a hard plan. It's just the way it naturally happened. And how many suppliers do you deal with? Right now I have 14.

Right. And so me as a wine purchaser for a bar of restaurant, I really appreciate that because sometimes there are these massive agencies that have so much. And then I find a lot of the times the reps will come and I can't even remember what they brought me to taste last time because the portfolio is so large. And then oftentimes they're bringing the same wines that we tried the last time that I didn't buy then.

And you know what I mean? So it's nice to have, to me, I really appreciate the agencies like yours that have like a smaller portfolio, really concentrated on really good stuff, but not like this overwhelming list of wine where it's just like, I mean, I don't even, sometimes I get like a 20 page portfolio is like, I'm not even going to read through it. Yeah, I mean, my portfolio is small, which is, you know, definitely a result of being a new agency. I mean, as a new agent, you are limited, you know, through the LCBO consignment program as to how much wine you can bring in anything for our own good, you know, they've got enough history with how the agencies work, like to allow us to grow gradually, right?

And so in time, I imagine, I imagine I will expand, but never beyond being able to do the kind of job that I want to do for my producers and never beyond being able to provide the service level that I want for my customers and my consumers. So that's the, that'll be the max size as long as I can do the job, you know, to the extent that I want to, that'll be as big as I go. And I don't know if you want to talk about this, if you don't, we don't have to because I know they're your working partnership with them, but do you want to talk a little bit about the challenges of having the LCBO is sort of a third party intermediary between everything you do? Well, you know, I mean, I don't see it that way, to be honest, I do think that there's definitely rules in place.

And I think it's necessary because it's a big operation. I think these people have been thought out and it's just trying to make everything work, right? So as long as you know what the rules are and work within them, I think I think it's, it's necessary when you're working with an organization of that size. So, Right.

But as opposed to like being say in Calgary, ABC, where you don't have to deal with that. Definitely there's, you know, every market is, is got its differences. You know, you compared to Alberta, maybe that, you know, it's different having the LCBO place where you wouldn't have a corresponding body like that in, you know, Britain necessarily, but the market would be different too. Right.

So I think there's always, there's always classes in mind, it's about any given market. And I think it's just about understanding the market that you're in and making the most of that situation. That makes sense. When you're starting out the agency and you're trying, so you said you went to this Expo, your meeting was producers.

And I know you have a focus on like we've already discussed like sort of what you're focusing on to what kind of ones you're trying to bring in. But this is an ever evolving process. Right. So like, talk to us a little bit about your day to day or I don't know month to month or however it is when you're thinking about meeting with producers or going to wine shows or whatever.

Like, talk to us a little bit about that whole process of how you go about fine tuning the list for your agency. Yeah. Well, there's just a backup for a moment. There's basically three sort of avenues of doing business as an agent in Ontario.

And one, obviously that we're working in together is the agent promoting wines to licensees, such as yourself, Babylon sisters. So that's one main channel. Another channel to work in is to be able to present the wines of your suppliers to the LCBO for tenders that they have. So to fill the LCBO retail shelves, they will put out periodic tenders saying what they're looking for.

And if you've got those corresponding wines with your suppliers, you can fill out the application and submit your wines to those tenders. So that's a whole another piece of the business. And then as an agent in Ontario, you can also promote your producers wines to individuals. So individual consumers can purchase wines from willcofine beverage.com.

So there's sort of those three channels to work in. And there's a lot to do. One of those channels could be a full time job, right? So for me, I want to work in all three and I like all three parts of that business.

So it's a balance between going back and forth between the different channels there. And at this point, it's just you. It is just you. Yeah.

So that is a lot of work. So definitely a full time gig. And do you anticipate growing to the point where you would hire some additional help in the form of like another rep to maybe handle one of those branches? Yeah, absolutely.

I've thought about it because the opportunity is there. So yeah, if I met the right person and it was a fit and we shared sort of the same philosophy about wine and work and I just think that I definitely would expand the way. Yeah, because that's a lot for one person. Do you find it's an even playing field for like a small even see like yourself is just sort of a newer one, like getting the wines into the LCDO or is it like you fill out the application and everybody gets treated equally?

Yeah, I do. I think that is a good system the way the LCDO tenders are organized because you get to present your wine the same way everybody else does. So it is one of the things that I really do like about the system is any agent has access to participating in the tenders and we all present our wines the same way. And really it's about is the wine the right fit for what they're looking for.

And then the wines some of the wines do end up getting selected for tasting. So the wines have to stand up in the tasting and deliver a great value. So yeah, I think that process is really good and it works for small agencies as well as for large agencies. Yeah, it's kind of it's almost like designed so that it helps everyone equally.

So did you like when you go to the LCDO to present to them is it the same deal you're like tasting wines with what a matter of a given store is it like how does that work? No, the whole process is done online to start. So the LCDO would announce what what tenders are open what they're looking for in the deadlines. You would go through them as an agent and think, oh yeah, I have that wine and you talk to the producer and see if they wanted to participate in that tender then the first step is is that online with an application and you're basically just giving the information about the wine and the price and the volume available all those kind of things.

And the buying group for that particular segment of wine would look at all the applications and make a decision of these are the, you know, I don't know, 100 or so we want to taste and then they would let the agencies know, okay, we need a sample now and then they would go ahead and taste and then some of those wines will pass and get selected for being listed and someone not. So, But who's doing the tasting at the LCDO level like is it like it's not obviously store to store it's got to be higher up than that. The buying group there. Yeah.

So they have a group specifically that by and now I don't know if you know this but is that the same group that does spirits as well like there's just like one buying group that that's a position in the LCDO organization. There's definitely departments where they specialize whether it's spirits or wine or beer and then even by region. So there's somebody in charge and then you know, they would have a team of people that are tasting as well but it is broken down by beverage type and also by region. And so do you have a bunch of your selections available on the LCDO now?

No, as you know, that's a process that does take time. So you know, the LCDO is planning quite far out for what they're bringing on to their shelf. So there's some in the pipeline but nothing on shelves yet. We need to get somebody from that process.

Because that's pretty fascinating to figure out how they decide what they need quote unquote at the LCDO at a given time, right? Like who makes those decisions? How do they come to those conclusions? There's some sort of metric involved I'm sure.

Yeah, I agree. That would be a advantage. So as busy as you are trying to run this whole agency and all these different branches yourself, I know a big part of the Master of Wine certification is like you said earlier passing on to other people. So are you still involved in teaching courses or anything like that on the side as well?

Do you have time for that anymore? I'm not teaching at the moment but I do have four mentees who are Master of Wine candidates so that are working in the study program right now. So I really enjoy meeting with them and talking to them and I really do believe it. So I'm not teaching per se but I'm acting as a mentor.

But I have taught in the past and I really think teaching is one of the best things that I've taught in the best ways to stay on top of the subject matter and to stay current and involved. So yeah, if I had a bit more time, I certainly would be interested in doing some more teaching in the future. You're right though too because there's so much to know when it comes to wine. Like every time you think you've got to handle on it, you're learning like 15 new things.

I feel like and trying to retain all that knowledge is very difficult. So the only way to do it is to merge yourself into it all the time, right? Yeah, keep it current, keep it's a lot of information and if you're not using it, it tends to no longer be top of mind. So yeah, it's good to keep it fresh.

It's like learning a language, right? Not practicing it at all times and you kind of lose it. That's true. So but the mentoring program definitely keeps that fresh for you, I'm sure.

Absolutely. And I had a fantastic mentor when I was in the study program too that just really changed the whole experience for me. So I really want to be able to give that back to people as well. Well, I thought, so my love, your agency, I think it's super fascinating what you did.

Like the master of wine thing just seems overwhelming to me. So congratulations on even getting that certification. It's incredible accomplishment. It's been super enjoyable meeting you and getting to try wines with you and getting a little bit of the education even through wine tasting.

So it's, and we really appreciate you coming on and doing the show. So maybe you can just tell our listeners once again where to find your agency online and on Instagram so they can try all these delicious ones. Yeah, thank you so much, Kevin. Thank you, Dan.

It was a pleasure talking to you today and I appreciate the opportunity. So if you're looking for some of our unique varieties, we're at locofinebeverage.com. Also locofinebeverage.com on Instagram. We do have a portfolio tasting coming up with a group of five boutique agencies on November 4th that I think there'll be a few tickets left by the time this airs.

So if you're looking to taste some great wines, we've got Ranger Wine, the Living Vine, Vindusov and Emily Craig import agency as well as locofine beverage. And if you go under event bright and just search hidden gems wine, you'll find it November the 4th at the Art of Gallery from two to five. So that's when we interact with us if you're interested or look up tasteinbye.ca and you'll find all the details on our website. That's a good reminder because I need to come to that show.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I know you send me the email and it's like you get so many and I kind of forgot about it, but that's a good one to go through. So yes, I hope to see you there. And probably I'll see you before that because I'm always buying wines from you.

So thanks again, Louise. It was a super fun conversation and look forward to talking to you again soon. Great. Thanks, people.

Thanks, Louise.