E200 Jill Sadler and Aaron Hatchell

who this week's guests are Jill Sappler, owner and operator of SNV Uptown and Aaron Hatchell, head bartender at SNV Uptown. Jill and Aaron joined us for our 200th episode for an in-person interview. We discuss how the industry has changed since the pandemic, the challenges of hiring staff, and the difficulty of establishing a consistent business through the week. We also talk about the unique Subber Club nights hosted by SNV and the bar program that Aaron developed.

The magazine created by both Jill and Aaron, that is named Lush, and doubles as their cocktail menu, plus a host of other topics. Check out SNV Uptown online on Instagram at SV Uptown and on the web at SV Uptown.ca. Make sure you support your local small business and enjoy the show. Thanks for coming out.

Thanks for making fun. Thanks again, Zach, for joining us today. We're coming to you through COVID, bed of COVID, car accidents, car accidents, bar floods, and the weather. We're coming to you through COVID, bed of COVID, car accidents, car accidents, and the weather.

And somehow we made it to 200. Congratulations. So we'll bring on our guests who will be familiar with the long time listeners of the podcast. You should check out all 200 episodes available in our archives.

Dan, can you list all 200 guests right now, please? No? I can be surprised by the list last week. But yes, we'll be joined in just a second by our old friends.

They're not old, but they're old friends to us. Aaron Hassel and Jill Sadler will be joining us in just a second before we get to them. We can't get through episode 200 without begging people to follow, rate, review the show. That helps a great deal.

And reminding you that if you want to be a guest on the podcast, it's info at the industrypodcast.club or at the industry podcast on Instagram. And yeah, if you're in the kitchen and waterloo area, you should come visit some of the great spots we have here. Two of my bars, Sugar Run, that Sugar Run bar on Instagram. Battle on Sisters.

Not Battle on Sisters bar on Instagram to check out where things are going on there. And of course, SMV Uptown, our neighbors up at that one. So if you come to both of us at the same time, it's the best way to handle that. Go to SMV for dinner, come to Battle on for drinks after.

What's the Instagram handle for? SV Uptown. SV Uptown. I was going to add a .ca for some reason.

Well, actually, why don't we get that out of the way right now? Like if they want to check out your website or yeah. Yeah, that would be SV Uptown.ca. Instagram is a good one.

We're very active on Instagram. So if you're looking to check out things that are going on and what's happening, those are the best, I would say, two places. Perfect. And all those links in the show notes as well as we do say all the time.

So you can always check that out there. Make it easy. And that was the voice of Jill Sadler who is the owner, operator of SV Uptown. And also joining us is Aaron Hatchell.

Head bartender, is that how we describe you? Yes? Yeah. Okay.

SV Uptown. And both of these are people who are previous guests on the show. Some of our earliest guests actually. Like in the first, what, 20 or so ever?

First, 20 or so ever. Yeah, first, 20 or 30 for sure. Yeah, first, 10. Yeah, so 10.

Yeah, so 10 or 14. And we talked about the first time recording at the time and I realized we got friends. We didn't know each other that well. Yeah, and now we're all friends.

So that's great. Yeah. It's your podcast, Bringing People Together. Really?

Yeah. I will say that. Now there were enough, so 200, so many cool people I met through doing this show. That's been the best part of it.

Not just locally, but I tell people all the time. I was like I go traveling now and I know Bartenders and every city is fucking awesome, but you know about that area from doing all your different bartending competitions, and you did Runamuck and now programming. You're well, you're well, you're well, you're well. We just have the architecture and camp right now.

A couple of episodes ago was pretty cool. Yeah, it was actually that was cool because we I can't tell you how many people we've had on the show who have been to camp Run them up and then to have the person I realized when we reached out to her that she was the one who created it and organized it And then it showed up in her bio and she was like, you know, it was something you have to be kidding Like we've done that and everybody loves it, right? It's not for me, I don't like camping but Which one is that? I feel like that's amazing They got hotels Yeah, oh yes But yeah, so we had the two of you on separately, even though you're both local obviously to us both of your episodes were over zoom Because we were in the height of the pandemic and we couldn't see each other face to face I do remember the first time that we were allowed to get back on patios we your was one of the first one That was a year old location.

It was one of the first ones that I remember being open and I was like excited So and I think you were there that day, too. Yeah, so yeah, I'll have back up into the wild Yeah, let's talk a little bit about the changes that have been sent So since then we can start by saying Aaron you were working at the Langdon Hall when we first when we first interviewed you Now you work with Jill at S&B up town and that's probably a positive change for you. Yeah Yeah, it's cool. So you guys are like best buds So and it's how is that within a working relationship because I can go either way like did you were you confident that when you started working together It was gonna go smoothly or were you worried that it might affect the friendship in any way?

I don't know that we gave it that much thoughts I don't know It sort of just organically happened because and like now I feel like we've become even closer friends because we work together And he works all well together which has been very like rare to find the fact that we sort of work like exactly the same is very nice Otherwise if there were like we don't really have conflicts at all and sort of it's nice Or because I know Aaron sort of running or can run things the same way I would and I feel very confident that in my absence He would be making the same judgment calls that would be yeah So that's been nice, but something that I guess going into it We didn't necessarily know it was going to play out that way I just was opening a new location. It was coming out of one of the lockdowns and Yeah And just you know staffing is always hard to find but it seemed like at that time a lot of people a lot of good people had moved on and done different Career choices and stability in the industry So it was more about I need a good solid bartender and person to like help me move it to the next step I think it's a slim too because like I'm a while when we all went through you and I used to pitch it together But like the quality of the people we were getting off into these people It's just they had no experience and those are the people we had the higher at the time and neither of our spots Between the three of them are like places that you can have like someone it's their first I'm sort of fucking experience Yeah, you're just kind of setting them up for failure to be honest because they need a little more ground work Yeah, so that was a good score that Aaron was willing to make the jump and was that a hard decision for you because I was probably a pretty decent gig It's like yeah, like I know it was weird cuz during like that lockdown. I was laid off So I just helped her clean right from your spot and she's slowly convinced One day we just like the late is open seven days a week So I could just like book off one day help train and do menus and things like that And then it's exciting when you're opening a new spot like it really is so when you're doing all of that together Yeah, I just kept saying well, you know, like could come do it and be paid Because he had time on his hands basically for being laid off and then I think he put back into like two shifts I'm like then and he called me he's like, okay, maybe let's just write something on Well, that's great. We're doing great And now because you're constantly still working on the floor and as well, right?

So so you're kind of working together and do you find it's mostly just the two of you or on the majority? Yeah, yeah on the weekends, maybe yeah Yeah, yeah, but like for sure we're just be like us basically. Yeah, that's all right. You get to work with your best friend And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah the problems that we have sometimes we're like, okay, maybe we gotta check our stuff Yeah, I've worked with some news ease So one of the things we were gonna talk about is the change like how the industry has changed since the pandemic and like Because the last time we talked to you and at the start of the spot gets 200 episodes ago We were in the throes of it and now coming out of it I feel like a lot of people feel like oh having back to normal but clearly not if you're in the industry and the one thing that I discovered is you really have to give people a reason to come out now and I noticed that you guys have been very creative with like how you're doing special nights to try and get the business back in So let's talk a little bit about like how you're doing that and the challenges of constantly coming up with new shit Like yeah, well, you can like it can be a little bit of like burn out for sure because you're trying to creatively Find ways to and to reach like new people in the community So we've been open up the new uptown location for three years same as you guys you basically have in the same time yeah, and Yeah, it's just like all run into people in the community and they're like oh I've either never heard of it Or I've walked by it 500 times and we've like never stopped in so I you're always trying to find ways to like either reach some new demographic Or I just get them in the door so they can experience what you're doing in there I would feel like that's sort of like the big challenge and to will run certain events or nights that like all of a sudden The tickets all out in like a day and then there's other times We'll do things and like they won't sell out or they're slow and you're so you're always trying to think is it You know the time of the year is it the theme is it like what is it?

So you're just kind of always constantly like thinking because it is there's no real trend right now And I find that in this like post-COVID world There's different challenges and nothing year over year month to month even from Friday to Saturday is not the same Right, so you just kind of what like I'm not I don't know the answer why that is but just nothing really consistent and we'd like to shit I mean we were like young and obviously maybe a little more degenerate like we were out all the time didn't matter whether it was Friday Saturday Monday like yeah, we went out all the time, but it doesn't seem like that maybe we're like raising a more responsible next gen I mean I'm not kidding so it's not a fault Yeah So if you're regular is it just more like what else you see and a lot of these times like I mean we're a higher in place So what you do get a lot of like special occasion people or they'll be regular sort of that way where they're probably not coming We're one week to week. Yeah. Yeah, it's like every anniversary or birthday Yeah, I know for sure like a so the separate clubs have been a big one where it's because they're a lot of the same regular people Because they can come well They don't have to come every single month but they can we've been doing those for over two years now And it's a lot of a lot of the same yes that regularly come so that is a specific time that you guys must have because Being a fine dining sort of higher-end spot people don't have the money they used to have so have you noticed that specifically touching? I mean the two bars that I operate are definitely on the higher end pricing wise than like going to like a casey or some shit like that All right, but like it's not the same as like the bill price you're gonna see from going to a S and V But you get what you pay for there's an amazing experience But are you finding that it's even harder to operate a place that's with higher bill prices Yeah, well I'm questioning this too because I'm like then you'd have to do so much volume and everything's still the same cost wise Like and labor is the same so I always try to think of like a model where people are charging like a Chuck's Roadhouse or something like that Like that's obviously a stark contrast Yeah, but like minimum wage is still the same food well They're not buying the same sort of food that we would be but just like everything sort of going through the roof So I don't I don't know it's challenging for sure like we can I'm looking for him like how many times am I gonna be like in this economy?

Like it's true like it's a struggle You can tell that people all across the board not just in our industry are like really feeling how expensive everything is and so even if people are Regularly coming out there may be spending in a different sort of manner. They're maybe not like balling out like right they once had Well and for you specifically at your restaurant I know it's like you do like doing the supper clubs which isn't undertaken because you that's an overhead cost for you specifically like to Plan a course menu and what I wanted and not knowing for sure how many people are gonna come and like until the last second Kind of but you have to put up the the like the overhead assuming that it's gonna be busy right so Positive thing with the supper clubs is we've been able to get them to a point where they're popular enough that they sell out Okay, that's good. Yeah, let's let's talk about something about it. What it is So summer club will you hold it the first Thursday of every month?

We shut down the restaurant ticket at event we sell tickets and we'll do a different themed dinner We'll do start at six and then we hold a cocktail hour they get themed depending what the theme is like grease or like Greek islands We've done so they get like a themed welcome drink can I pay serve during cocktail hour? You guys can arrive anytime between then depending on how long they want to enjoy cocktail hour and then at seven o'clock We move into a five course theme tasting and they can optionally do wine pairings So the nice thing is is we've been able to offer this where it has been consistently been selling out like far enough in advance That we're able to do things like take dietary restrictions Which for a lot of tasting any restaurants is not a thing But it takes a lot of work organization planning to make sure the one don't kill anybody and like can do all of that and execute it Yeah, but that's a lot of work for like something to do once a month And it's just like you must spend the whole month planning up until the point of executing it while still trying to operate the restaurant And daily basically yeah, we do a lot and it's basically the two of us Yeah, yeah, it's like a lot of things and so this is kind of goes to what I'm talking about But this is been successful for you So that's great. Well, I think about all the work you've had to put into it And maybe pretty cool, but you wouldn't really have to do something like this You could just open the doors and know that you did good shit and people would come Yeah, yeah, yeah, like we have like same thing with yours But you know you're putting out properly made drinks and good food and you're like buying food from the proper suppliers Like we make everything from scratch and but it's not as easy as just like you will do good stuff and they will come No, and that used to be good. That used to be the thing right like in the I've got like that frustration isn't huge for me right now Back in the day if you open a cool spot and you did good things and it was reasonable Like you got what you paid for if you went there you felt like you did like the whole experience was good That was good enough.

Yeah, now you have to have something to draw them in yeah Yeah, yeah, and that to me is eminently frustrating Well, yeah, people just need a reason to go out now I think COVID maybe put them in a routine where they stay home and entertain themselves at home and from different routines that way And so it's not necessarily just like, okay, let's go meet at a restaurant Let's go meet at a bar and grab a cocktail grab a drink grab whatever. Yeah, it's LCBO Netflix and Yeah, yeah, that's like kind of pattern that people put in and that's just killing week nights I think I think yeah, yeah, specifically that and then exactly that they need like either an occasion or something to like you like Like oh this events going on. Let's make plans and go out It's not just like oh where's where we needing and like we'll just walk top like from place to place uptown Like doesn't seem like that happens very much anymore right? Well, I want to talk about the cocktail program specifically and lush before we get to that We should mention that maybe if you're making cocktails some of the spirits you would like to use would be from our good friends at Allure the stilling Sounds like a good idea.

We've tried these before they're pretty solid. Yeah, the royal rum is unbelievable sipping rum from allure the stilling and the great Expectations gin is truly homegrown Ontario craft gin They have notes of Juniper sumac sweet gale and burdock and are distilled separately. It's a balanced herbal gin and it's available now for wholesale For restaurant to bars, but it's also available in the LCBO So that's great expectations Ontario terroir gin the royal rum spice black is currently only available for wholesale into restaurants and bars But it is coming to the LCBO in the summer 24. That's we're in it Perfect should be there any second look out for it.

Yeah, I should have a door distilling is a grain to grass distillery If using locally sourced grain of greens from Waterloo and Wellington County farms that is correct You can follow them at allure distilling co on Instagram or check out allure distilling company calm to see all the products They have they are just released in Italian secrecy and bitter aperitivo and in 2024 have several seasonal whiskies Lecures and gyms coming out They actually have a shit on a product to be honest with you They came by into the tasting at Babylon and they have a bunch of different about goes a bunch of different whiskies But specifically this great expectations is a great gin for your rail at a bar or for your home bar or for your back bar The Royal Rama like I said, it's more of a zipper, but great for home or at your bar. So reach out to them It's allure distilling company calm at allure distilling co on Instagram and that check out all the great things happening from allure distillery And the products are available for wholesale for bars restaurants like you mentioned available for personal purchase at the LCBO Allure distilling perfect Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the cocktail program there because obviously you guys will focus a lot on that You can tell if the following guys on Instagram the cocktail programs amazing is that combined everywhere? Is that mostly you wearing or how does that work? I think mostly me, but I'm like I always shoot at you It's back and forth off Jill.

So I'm just putting some bad champagne in the middle everyone just get at it I was drinking wedding wine last night. So that's right It's also LCBO product right now Yeah, I'm an earring being modest I'd say the cocktail program is for sure all year and I need to say like oh I've been drinking this lately or like drink stuff together and then maybe bank that for the next like list But that's what I used to be like best friends is we travel right Die like we went to Paris this year and like went to a bunch of places and it was like insane So for that to be like a best friend and like we still talk about work all the time right? So it's like research but not we can't help it too, right? It's like people like us when we go traveling so we do we go to bars and that's You know like my wife didn't always notice like when I walk in when we're traveling anywhere I walk into a bar restaurant and I just so They spent this Like Well, yeah, but then certainly certainly I'm checking out the cocktail programs and the food as well Like what they're doing with different exciting dishes like you can't help it by the influence by bring some of that back with you Right?

Yeah, so talk to us and so when how did the idea for the lunch magnet? So actually it's a lunch magazine also Double serves as your cocktail menu. Yeah, that's how we're so yeah So cool idea and how did that come about and I'm sorry It just seems like another thing where the overhead on that has got to be not cheap as well, right? So you're trying to do something cool, but it's also it's not fucking cheap, right?

No, and like we're a lot of time and effort to do the magazine I like lush came to be because when we first opened every menu that we were doing we were trying to just present it in a different unique way and We did when we first opened out of the pandemic We did like open into a map and we wanted to highlight all these different businesses that have been affected by Covid and shut down so we did there was retail there was candles there were all different sorts of businesses and essentially we took that business and Aaron made a cocktail from that and so you could then it was a good way that you could order a drink follow the business Maybe find some local establishments that you didn't know about and and support them because that was like the biggest thing at the time And then we're like, okay, we did that then we did Terrell cards where you got like I know that Yeah, we had one of our servers at the time she designed like all the fronts front of the cards We had positive affirmations on the bag and all the drinks and that's how you got that less was the third one and Yeah, we just thought why don't we do like a full spread magazine? Some people that's all they do I for it. They loved it. We loved it.

Obviously it was it came out really well And then so like Aaron would do all the cocktails all the presentation all that we work with Amber from Spark side She does all the photos and her food and drink photography is insane And then I did all the formatting for the menu and then essentially we just sent it off to print and we're like, okay fingers crossed let's see how we do here and Now we've done five yeah Five and like it's interesting to look back at the first copy of Lush and then you're just getting better at it matching colors and the articles and like the photos and how to lay everything out and how it reads and so It we just kept fine tuning it. I guess like every yeah everything Because it's not just drinks and it's like we've got ad space for like brands right everything And then we do at least usually like eight to ten articles that we write put together to so seeing like all those things come together And then now the fifth one is like the most advanced and I'm glad it's done enough And either you have any experience doing like that before no, no, so that makes it that's I mean like that's incredible Of course you're gonna get better to go right yeah, but like to have it to know that well for Something you've neither of you hadn't experienced in publishing or writing or whatever like that's pretty cool And but I honestly am overwhelmed by them like thinking about the amount of work that goes and all the shit You guys are trying to pull off all the time like I don't know how you had time for this, but I guess maybe we'd like you with booze So specifically Aaron like talking about the cocktail creation these days because I'm very curious we talked a lot of people on the show about Stuff like this is how far can we push this because like when are we like eventually we're gonna run out of ideas for Talk with you like that's it, but I'm just like well I guess let's talk about at least there Do you think that there's like a time where we're just gonna be like fuck that's it we've done everything now no at least for a while Mmm, I think I don't know because I think we're behind on like some cooking techniques or like other aspects of hospitality that you might not attribute to it So then you can just like pull from bits and pieces and I think we're always constantly doing that Mmm, so I think it's gonna take some time and everyone is always evolving like regardless like to like survive basically true But I feel like it'll come to a point where it plateaus definitely a bit But it'll be like peaks for sure I think well the good thing about cocktails or I guess food as well is that there's several different aspects Because like you might have hit the peak of like the flavor browsing put together, but you can still do something cool with presentation right or vice versa Or whatever right thing so that helps but yeah, I always will I don't know I just don't think this shit But I'm just like when are we gonna get to the end like you think it's not a shit that you're doing is incredible And I'm like oh fuck like like the presentation alone. Yeah is insane And I was like okay, so how much more can how much further do you ever go? Challenging that way because then you're like okay Wow we did this X Y and Z and it was really awesome And now you're like how do I want up?

Yeah, that sort of a thing so it can be tiring But it like obviously you obviously have to love what you're doing There's no way that you'll be able to creatively do all of those things I'm not have a passion for it and a love for it to like be constantly researching reading learning from other people like Aaron's basically gonna be gone the majority of the summer because he'll be in different places attending conferences and talking to different people Yeah, so that's gonna be inspiring for you, but that's also like you're gone Yeah, so I'm gone, but then I'm also still like working when I'm gone Right, right, sweet vacation. No, no, yeah, so like I'm arrested up She's got like more work put on her when I'm gone to so And tails is coming up soon, right? Yeah, yeah I think I think I'm on the 72 and you are a Red great coach a second time great go for the second. I don't explain that to people who don't know what that means Yeah, so it turns out the cocktail does cocktail apprenticeship program So you apply to go and basically help run all the seven hours to make all the drinks everything organized already I started doing stuff like months ago talking to presenters and getting everything together organized So we go and they're for like 10 days And yeah, just batch everything like I can talk to you for hours about everything we do It's like the most insane thing So there's 40 red coats that could select in the world 20 great coats And then there's five black coats and five white coats as well and it's kind of like a tiered system And it's a crazy amount of work But like the amount of people that you get it's like the top people in the industry that all go to New Orleans and just run a million seminars Talk about all the things and then also enjoy good brand parties.

Yeah What two summers ago now, I think yeah, and we did some live interviews down from there, but yeah, I was like the I don't you can't keep up with all the fucking brand parties. No, it's insane. Like every day There's like I'm going in every day like from morning till late at night It's like I was going to an absence tasting at like a ten of them Yeah, it doesn't suck It's not constant. It's fine then like when you come back you're like Oh, I did this this this and like the amount of stuff you do and like the people that you mean it doesn't say like the people I worked with last year We all met in New York in February like I think there's 15 of us just like hang out and celebrate some of the birthday And then people from like all over the trail and like all over the states everywhere Oh, nice.

We just like cut it off for three days. That's great. Yeah, and that's the best word about it, right? Like and that goes to what we were saying earlier about doing the interviews It was like I was I tell people story all the time about I was in Chicago We're going to a show and I was meeting my friends to go to the concert It was a really field the next day But I'm like I've had too many bad experiences with like flying in to a spot the day of the event I want to go to having to play flights or get a flight So I just have learned if you go in the day before but nobody else I was going with wanted to do that So I was there by myself and I'm like, that's fine.

I know like five barteries now I'm just gonna bounce around and yeah, yeah They're the ones you want to talk to if you're going to a different city Like you want to ask them like where like honestly the best meal we had we went to Paris in January was because we went to this fucking outrageous Cocktail bar was so cool Danico if you're a Paris go so cool Like you think the magazine school they make like a fucking book based on the owners travels So we got there and it was based off Japan the dreams were insane the present like the book was crazy vibes awesome And you're only on the commande so that just doesn't exist here, but sadly anyway school dream And we were like literally walking out and these two people were sitting at the end of the bar and they stopped us and they're like You're working hot like hospitality where are you from and we're like over from Canada and and they were like we work at this They didn't it's only gonna tell you cafe cafe. It was so it sounded so understated like okay I'm gonna go get a song It's our past it comes to yeah, okay, so then we we got home And she had sent us like where was he looked it up and the food looked incredible And so I like message her I'm like okay We're we're like gonna come if you can hook us up with a rezzo She hooked us up with a fucking chef's table in the kitchen. Oh wow tasting menu and it was hands down one of the best He was like my life. It was so amazing Like they were awesome like it's just I don't know the culture is just different over there with dining I think it was crazy like awesome Like revolves around food for as fuel Yeah, and she was one of like the sous chefs Yeah, I mean the kitchen yeah, like right in front of them We just watch like literally sat there all night and just watch their entire service It was really cool great Well, and that's it's something you're gonna talk about as well like the difference between European and North America Because to dining because and bars as well like it's we just have Yeah, I don't want to I don't know how to say this properly But like the problem here is maybe people too concerned with you entertaining them and also doing it cheaply Yeah, if you're up, it's just like people are just experiencing awesome shit Yeah, and here's a question for both of you.

Do you think that was it ever like that here or am I romanticizing pre-covid times? Not to that extent better I don't know well, I'm like business-wise It's harder for me to even compare because we open the original location and we're only open a year and a half Before it happened yeah, so it was like no and I had not owned any sort of business in the industry before I was just working in it So you're like it's taking a lot of work to establish yourself your name like who the fuck are we and what are we doing? So I don't really have that much to compare it to only as a guest really but as you worked in like I had the perspective that like a business on People come in our place when it's busy and I'm like wow well you guys must be killing it like okay Well, you're like it's not always Yeah, I know you're a good night like or like a good like it's very seasonal and I know I was in a bar That was packed at local bar recently It was like over the last couple months and it was like a Saturday night and the bar was fucking packed in I ran into somebody who I hadn't seen in a long time and back from like when I was just a bartender At those and the I was like yeah, you know, you only place you into a great and I'm like well No, this business kind of fucking sucks right now to be honest with you And he's looking around the bar and he's like and I'm like yeah, you came on the night. Yeah busy Sometimes the frustrating thing is we find that SMV is super seasonal So it's like you're you're like hurting for this one season and then you go into your busy season And it's like you can't I can only fit so many people in for dinner at this time And you see like people have the perception that you're just crushing it all the time, but it's like okay Well, you didn't see us for our slow period or I know people will like come into Babylonish everyone We're just absolutely smashing busy and it's like wow you must be Yeah, and look I'm fucking understaffed Another thing actually that I was I'm curious about like with you guys So we would be more reservation based right so it's like I can look at the reservations for the day and sort of gauge like how to Staff it you guys have in the start we talk about this because in the summer It's more like oh people it's nice We'll pop in or last minute make plans and so it's not as easy to plan whereas in the winter I'm like people like don't have any to do it shitty out like we're going for dinner on Friday Make a rise though, and you know five days in advance But like how do you staff that flying blind?

It's so fine at all times and it's that is that is And the time you cut then you get then every rushes in you get fucked and then they're pissed because it's slow If you're understaffed you will be busy and if you're overstaffed you'll be dead it's Yeah, it's always Murphy's live It's always been that way a little bit but that is definitely one thing that I've known so it's gotten much worse since the pandemic because Trying to predict when people are gonna go out now There's no there's no rhyme or reason it does not matter. No, it's raining to get you people are coming in It's what they bring that up. I've always had surprise like because it very much is but don't you find it so weird that this business is Weather dependent? Yes, like for me.

I don't know fuck like I'm not going out somewhere. Yeah Get an uber like now. It's just like what are you afraid to go inside? But part of it is like look at the weather and they're like now am I'm a little bit more alive than it's supposed to get real fuck later So I like help us either because like basically if you turn on any news on how you get your news They're basically warning you to never go out.

Yeah Yeah, it's like that is the media is definitely working against hospitality doesn't look like this. Yeah, everything's do do say Right like it's like hey, it's okay. You can leave your house even if it's raining like you're not the fucking wicked witch of the west You won't melt Full of sugar honey. Yeah, maybe that's what you're doing to you too Yeah To with the seasonality like fluctuations is it hard to keep like the top staff like chefs and what not?

Well last time I did it got me all the trouble but Oh my god chess room another like fall game. Yeah, but yes, like if you can't keep people's hours like then Yeah, you're gonna lose certain people but you're right. Just don't say that one Well, that's it like they're very transient Like we talk about all the time. It's always always better and I'm just like it's the same It's a different spot.

Oh, yeah, they're rude by who knows well There's a lot of ego stroking that goes on in the chef game to right? Oh, yeah Never seen how has been like how was your um retention them with back out since like what just in general But since then we can't be want to talk about it always it's always changing ever changing and even when you find people They leave though eventually leave friend of house is the same although I feel like our retention with front of house is a little bit better But but also you two are doing the lines are doing anyway, right? But you have managed to maintain an awesome menu to this whole thing so you something's going the right way like how much direction do you So we do have on like how the menus coming out because like fully right because you just had enough like a new chef I just don't like and there's another issue to is that cooks don't really cook around here Mm-hmm. There's not a lot of restaurants that really like make things from scratch I'm like should I say that probably no but like it's true I'm already a place is like aren't really cooking from scratch not everything is like not as a blanket I'm speaking in general But it's way harder like if you go to Europe obviously everything's from scratch you go to the fucking bread place the cheese place Like they're all doing things very specific and they're doing them properly and that is harder to find here Like even the pasta Italian restaurants in our city.

They're not making pasta from scratch Like so it's hard to find people that actually know how to cook and I don't know if like they're raised to really know How to cook anymore like I think that's like a maybe a generational thing what a James called cook by numbers Cook by numbers and you get it Yeah, but part which is bizarre because we have one of the best F schools in the world so close to us But I think that just like this generations these generations beneath us have like decided school is bullshit no matter what field you're in Right, so they would like you know what school is like at this point and this is one of the things we're actually gonna We're getting more involved with Conestoga Because chef Dan that's when you read house has just taken over the executive chef position there So we I'm like I haven't done anything yet But we're like just signed up to be on a few committees because they want to hear from restaurant Like what's actually happening in the industry So I think that'll be a nice partnership to kind of be able to yeah Sorry, I mean Yeah, she's there all the time. Yeah, a lot of the stuff you can learn on the job And I certainly never been a huge fan of the person who's got like oh I went to bartending school online I'd rather have someone who went through the like just But there is something to be said for especially if you're gonna be a chef taking some courses And this goes back to what we're saying like learning how to make shit by hand Yeah, there's fundamentals of cooking that you need to know for sure and you can like the problem is now too is like I've had so many work with so many chefs or like cooks is like it's I can easily suss out the fucking bullshit And so I don't have any tolerance for it and they just think that they can pull the wool over my eyes Well, that's what I asked I'm like what like what did you cook there actually like what are you actually making? Okay, so how did you make it? Yeah?

Your scale of like classic cocktails seven eight people always come to the gate with seven or eight I'm making a hand cool. Tell me the ratios and how would you do it? Oh, he's wrong. Yeah, we used to We're all forced to hire just anyone because I've got so many 100% He's working with my rabbit Yeah, but we'll pre that time I should run we were hiring someone who should have bar 10 We would be like okay come in go behind the bar make these like just not tell them what they're gonna be like make man Hand make like whatever no fashion make this make a variety of classics and then now make us something using whatever you Yeah, that's a lot of pressure for someone but it does we have a lot of shit I'm gonna make it on a waste product Nice He came to a cocktail class that we Was in university and just like wanted to know more and more and more shut up James He was a best Books and you rather like a week and then would not just read it and this is what I've learned Probably Or but like I think you can tell those yeah, right?

Even when the pandemic and all these people started leaving I could peg the people who are gonna be looking for jobs later Yeah, totally one of them actually has already gotten back into business One of my former employees, I'm like there's no like equally because of the pandemic and like there's this guy Yeah, he's going to find fuck ever say he's a former guest on the show one of the first ones So I'm not gonna say his name, but he's listening. He knows who he is He's back in yeah, but that is like I think you guys would probably agree with this There's a certain type of person who was drawn to this industry and there are some people and you can peg him right away Who are just doing it as like like a part-time gig while they're going to school or whatever the fucking Right, I don't care They're waiting for their real estate license Yeah, like whatever it is but there are people and you know them when they start they're like I don't care what happens this person they're always gonna have a toe in this industry in some way yeah Yeah, yeah, but it's like I was like we worked both like we didn't know each other but went to school and like always We're in the industry. Yeah, and then finish school and we're just like a lot of it And you're just not stuck in it, but it's like you do it because you're free a lot of it and yeah It's funny to me a lot of people like it's just way just better and you just get passionate about the like like we're like So we bitch about all the fucking time now right but like at the end of the day There's some sort of patch that keeps us involved in it's not just because we can't figure anything else to do I think there's not enough love maybe that's a Canadian thing or like a North American thing that like there's not enough appreciation for What happens because it's a lot of fucking work. It's a lot of physical labor.

It's a lot of Mental like it's a lot of work and a lot of people cannot do it You would say are like super accomplished people not everybody can do this job. It is difficult You have to be so good at all of the like the mental the physical yeah like like oh my dog died well Who cares because you're not your anniversary. So let's fucking like light this up Like it doesn't matter like you want to be able to compartmentalize and just do your job And but that's also the really cool thing is that you're a part of so many memorable moments for other people That obviously that's why we love it is because the moments where people are very appreciative and they get it and they love it is is What makes it, you know the best well? That's like a perfect spot to end this conversation.

I'm going to total Like the what we think the future is but I think this is a perfect You know it's a 200 episode let's end it right there right there And then and it is how I feel as well. So guys it's so great for you guys to come on the 200 episode We want to have you guys specifically to get to our earliest guests and um And all the shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah and check out SMB uptown Yeah, we're sure like you're gonna get an amazing experience these guys know what they're doing And you can tell if anyone's listening to this episode too So you can tell if I should pull Jill and Aaron are for what they're doing. So yeah, Dan 200 buddy Not a 200 more.

Yeah Maybe that's our essence Yeah, well we'll go down the car and the pandemic Yeah, we're in our fault. So that's good. That's true. That's because we're awesome drivers.

This is the other people we have to worry about He got hit by a car. I got hit by a deer Hit by a one. I got a four one again smash my mind. Oh shit.

Yeah. I'm so anyway all happened in the last weekend Like yeah 72 hours for the first time. That was the last episode record. We were like trying to get back here in time for the episode Dan's like we call it messaging.

He's like yeah, just got re-rendered of the 401 might be a little late for this episode Yeah, no problem. Yeah, lots of problems. Yeah, exactly. That's all of perspective.

Well Dan. Thanks again for everything you do for the industry podcast This has been super fun for 200 episodes, and we'll see how many more we can churn out perfect Thank you. Thank you. This was you as well.

All right, cheers. Cheers. Cheers.