E209 Alyson Tuner

This week's guest is Alison Turner, who joins us remotely from Kansas. Ally is the co-founder of 1620 Distilling, a thriving distillery she launched in 2021 alongside her husband and in-laws. Beyond the world of spirits, Ally is a serial entrepreneur, owning and operating several businesses within the real estate industry. In our interview with Ally, several of the topics we cover include 1620 Distilling's marketing strategy, the importance of having a unique story behind your brand, the challenges of product distribution plus growing a distillery business.

We also talk about the composition of the mash bill of the Bourbon Whiskey and the importance of making it a versatile mix that appeals to a wider audience and lends itself to cocktails. We had a great time interviewing Ally and make sure you check out Ally's profile on Instagram at drinkingwithalison and Allison is spelled A-L-Y-S-O-N at the distillery at 1620 Distilling or check the show notes for all the links. Enjoy the show. We are back with another episode of the industry podcast.

My name is Kip. This is Dan. How is it going? I'm doing all right.

Thanks. It's a lovely Monday here in town. What about yourself? How was the weekend?

Good. Yeah. And Waterloo Homecoming in town this weekend as we're recording today. And it was even nice and busy done in the night beforehand.

So the weather was great too. It was nice and dry and very warm here. So it's about two seasons winter and summers. Yes.

Enjoy the waiting days of summer while we can. It was good for business. So I'm not complaining. I get apparently a slurry at homecoming this weekend.

So hopefully even more of the same. And if you are coming to, well, actually you'll be hearing this after that. So I can't even promote it. Yeah.

Sometimes I get screwed up with that. But if you are in the KW area, you should come to one of my bars. Downtown Kitchener, it is shoulda run. At Shoulda Run Bar on Instagram to check out all the things that are going on there.

So if you're in the uptown Waterloo area, it's Babylon Sisters at Babylon Sisters Bar on Instagram to find out what's going on there. And if you'd like our interest in what we're doing here on the show, the best way to support us is to follow or subscribe on your platform, whichever one you're using, rate and review the shows even better or as Dan always says, just tell one person. Yeah, it's all it takes to tell one other person's the least amount of work and it's the easiest way to spread the word of the show. Exactly.

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It's Ali Turner. How are you? Good, how are you guys? We're doing well doing well.

Thanks again for joining us on this lovely Monday evening. Yes. So Ali is one of the founders and co-owners of, I'm going to get a right 1620 distilling. So tell us a little bit about that, how that all came to be, where the name came from and what you distill.

So my husband and I co-own it along with my in-laws. We got a distillery in Eastern Kentucky, some of the mountains, place of Preston'sburg. So significance of 1620, my husband's seventh great grandfather. His name is George Thorpe.

1620, he came over to America from England. He was supposed to start a college. Instead of starting a college, he met the Indians. Indians showed him how to distill corn into whiskey.

And that is the story. That is the 1620 came from. And my mother and I found it doing like the ancestry, the type of thing. Found out all about the background.

And then that was kind of where the idea was born. My husband is from Kentucky, born raised with a law school up there and then ended up in Kansas for work. So we're kind of in between. That's kind of, he's always suburban.

Been found out yet, ancestors that literally had started distilling corn into whiskey. So that is where it came from. Yeah, amazing. So you both have obviously, your husband has a job independent of distillery.

That's not your only source of income. And you as well, you own several businesses, is that right? Yes, or several businesses in the real estate world in addition to 1620. Hopefully one day that will be the full time gig, but startups are hard.

I'm starting to distillry from scratches. Very, very difficult. And it's not exactly a money maker up front. So yeah, we have our day jobs for now, but I own a property management company.

So I've got a little bit more of a flexible schedule. It helps to be able to travel like back and forth. So this open facility in 2021, that's correct, right? Yes.

So yeah, so it's really quite brand new. So it takes, like what is the, it probably takes an average of like 10 plus years to get a brand. They either fail or they succeed after around 10 plus years, would you say? Yes, like it's pretty accurate.

And this industry is hard. I mean, you have a lot up front and it takes a long time for it to come back around and really start to be profitable. So when it comes to like, I mean, you whiskey for the barrels for how long before you're really able to, you know, bottle and sell it. So it's, it's, it takes a lot.

So yeah, like the upper money for the all the distillium equipment, I can't even wrap my head around that must be insane. But then also, like you said, it's if you're making whiskey, it's not like, that's why I feel like a lot of distillaries will start with a gin or vodka for sale or whatever, because they can get that product out quickly. It doesn't have to be Asian or anything, right? And then they sort of try and sell that while they're aging their whiskey, but you guys just started with whiskey or?

Yeah, we did. So it's not like a secret. We source from barrels from NGP. Right now we're aging some of our own stuff for starting to, but right now what's on the shelf, we have two skis right now, we have a small batch of bourbon that's considered an idea proof and then we've got a full proof that just came out at 117.

And both of those are sourced from NGP. The 117 sounds like spicy, but it's actually a lot of good feedback on it. People really like it. It does not burn as much as you expect.

And so you're also in charge of all the marketing. So how do you like, I mean, well, we'll get into it because you're also a whiskey influencer, but so I'm sure that's very helpful when you're trying to get the word out about your product. But how else are you trying to get the word out of, like because it's a pretty saturated market to begin with for whiskey in the US, right? So how do you get the word out specifically about 1620 and how do you separate yourself from some of the, well, than many other distillies?

So try to use social media as much as possible. That's where my social media platform came from. We literally started my husband and Zane and account was like, we could do this. Like we could do drinking with Allison.

I was like, all right. And it was really to bring light to 1620. And then it kind of blew up, did not expect it to go as big as it has. But we always a lot of social media to get the word out a lot of social media advertising.

And then we try to do as many events as possible. So we are getting ready to actually do bourbon on the banks and Frankfurt, Kentucky. It's a pretty big event. They've done it the last.

Third year going into doing it. So we did do it like right off the bat, like right after we had started. We did it the first year, but it's a good, it's fun. But that gets a very large crowd out there.

And you've got a lot of the big guys that are out there. Think about the low trace, all of them are there. So you get a lot of people, a whole lot of people coming through. But I'd say like what distinguishes us a little bit different.

I guess 1620, like we literally have a relative who started, you know, the selling corn and whiskey. So that's kind of where we think it's a little bit different. So yeah, you can sort of lean into the story. And really, if you like as good as the juice itself might be, if you don't have a good story these days, you're kind of screwed.

Like, yeah, I completely agree. I think that's kind of what stands out. We have a story on the back of the bottle, just so people like, no, but I think that that helps because you, it is a rather saturated market and you do get very, pretty easy. So if you got to have something that stands out, even with, you know, a good product.

Well, even I'm sorry. Oh, I was just asked go back to the social media part, where you mentioned it kind of grew rather large, pretty quick. So any particular point during that growth that like a specific post or anything like that, or is it just kind of compounded on like week after week, month after month, just kind of grew that way. That's really what it was, is continuing to post.

I had a few reels with five or six million views, which, you know, my follower count flew up, but there's quite a few like the bourbon influencer thing is kind of not large. I mean, there's quite a few pretty good sized group and they're all really supportive. Each other really wants to share meals and stuff and people want to meet up and do things. So it's, it's been fun.

So I didn't realize that you had, yeah, just speaking about that specifically that I thought I was on the person that you had already developed this social media following before this story, but the story came first and then the social media following grew out of you posting about the disability mostly. Yeah, distillator anything bourbon related in general. We travel a lot. We're in a little business about any distillery we possibly can.

So posting reviews and stuff like that. No, it started, we started the distillery really the startup was in 21 and then I've had my page for just about two years now. And it really we started it as to try to like bring light to the distillery and work quite well. That's crazy.

How many followers you gained in such a short amount of time? Like, so we should let our listeners know exactly what the page is called. It's drinking without us and I'll lie us when I'm so and yeah, you have like a quarter of a million followers. Yeah.

Between Instagram and TikTok. Yeah, it's crazy. Like it just took off and you can you put your finger on what specifically was that like started like I mean, obviously you were diligent about posting often, but like, why do you think you're stood out more than any other like end groups? So quickly female in the urban world.

Yeah, maybe I think that's a lot of it. But there's not a lot of it's more than yeah, or man's name. I think there's more to be like female influencers, but apparently people must find the content entertaining because my watch, you know, my ridiculous reel is over and over again. So, but no, it's it's fun.

I mean, like it's all about me because I don't put just out like anything about just the distillery on there. Like we buy. I mean, we've probably got 400 bottles of bourbon and so it's just constantly just trying new things and putting it out there and telling people about it and things like that. So people like hearing about things that they're like, okay, I should try that.

So you're obviously a bourbon connoisseur. Are you were you before you met your husband? No, no. The family story helped and then you got into whiskey at some point, obviously.

What all these facilities that you visited, what are some of your favorites? We just went to this little one. It's called Hock to Town distillery down Oklahoma. That's a cool little area, but like in Kentucky, what rivers are of is beautiful and for anybody who's not been out that way.

That's a great one of it. And then like we'll watch the unbelievable for a couple days after bourbon on the bank. So that's in Frankfurt on a Saturday and we're spending a couple days in Louisville and we're handling the distilleries like on Whiskey Road there because that's just a lot of fun. Yeah, I gotta do that.

So I'm gonna keep telling myself. I'm gonna get that done. That's good. You have to.

It's I mean, there's used to be that like there's like eight or nine distilleries at one point on the bourbon trail. And now it's I mean, it's massive. So you can't really do anything in a weekend, but you can go Louisville and hit everything on Whiskey Road there. And then you can do another weekend where you're hitting some of the other really big ones.

So really like we take one weekend just to do the Louisville part. Yeah, and you've got to play not in advance because there could be I guess maybe rumors and walk-ins, but like every time we're there and we want to go like we have to make sure we book tours in advance because there's only so many. I think I feel like maybe it's starting to cool down a little bit, but because we were able to find some just two weeks out and play very well. And we didn't know initially we were gonna be staying there as long as we are.

So but I went ahead and booked a couple of things. We were we had the Undistributor in Kentucky. And so they're having an event like we have bourbon on the banks on Saturday and then Sunday we're just gonna be wondering up and down, you know, Whiskey Road drinking and distiller hopping. And on Monday we have something planned and then Monday night we have an event with our new distributor there.

So we just didn't really we didn't tend on being there. We were gonna come on Sunday after bourbon on the banks. But since we landed that new distributor, which is super exciting, we'll have one distributor, Statewide for Kentucky, which is a big deal. So we're excited about working with them.

That's huge. Talking about the whole distribution part of it. When you when you sign up with a distributor, they're obviously going to they're moving your product, but they're also promoting and marketing it for you. And they have their own sales reps, correct?

To an extent, I think they do still kind of rely a little bit. I think it depends on who you go with. Some of the smaller ones like we're in Kansas, we distribute in Kansas. A lot of the marketing like the tastings that we've done it like liquor stores, like I was going into doing those.

Like I was promoting it and doing that. So I think it just kind of depends. But they still do rely on the company to kind of do some marketing as well. But yeah, we've got distribution is literally the I'd say it's the hardest part of this.

And every state has a set of rules and laws, hoops to jump through some states, you can have multiple distributors, some of you get one, some are controlled states, but it's a lot. So we just landed a new one Kentucky. We landed statewide distribution in Tennessee back in July. So that should be a little here pretty soon on the shelves for folks in Tennessee.

And then we do have online sales that hits about every state in the United States. That's those are two big whiskey drinking states from what I understand. So that's good to have distribution. Yes.

Yeah. That was a huge deal. We've had well, we had Kentucky. We've had distribution there since the beginning, but we just recently switched to a different one.

And then yeah, Tennessee was like number two on the list. Well, I'd say Kansas was we got Kansas. That's because we live here. And so of course, all our friends and everybody wants to get it.

So we had to have it here. But Tennessee was like the top of the list. So we're it was very, because we are on national in July for a week. And it was it was exciting that we got to add Tennessee to the list.

So how do you like a big part of this process will be getting your product into bars and restaurants as opposed to just the liquor stores? What's your strategy for that? In Kentucky, like where we're located at, it isn't some of the restaurants around there. They'll advertise it for us, use it in certain breaks, cocktails, getting it in bars and restaurants is not as easy as it sounds.

And you've got to get it into like the right bars too, like in Wichita, you know, most of the bars here, they're not like any type of like a whiskey bar. And so they're not wanting it's not people coming in and asking for a two ounce for something, you know, they're using it for cocktail and stuff like that. So that's not like our primary focus right now, is it is just getting more distribution of our states. Yeah, and it's like pounding the pavement work, right?

Like you got to kind of have someone on the ground going to different bars and restaurants that fit your product and fighting. And that's that's something maybe more down the line when you guys are becoming bigger and you can afford to hire sales reps for different areas. Yeah, yes. Yeah, that's exactly it.

It's just it's getting to that point where we can pull that trigger to do that. So right now it's just like really the four of us and then we've got a we've got someone else in Kentucky and then we've got a person here that also helps go to some of the liquor stores and stuff of that nature. But yeah, it's just it's time. It's time to try money.

Well, I like as a small business owner myself, like there's a certain period like you say it costs a certain amount of money to get the business up and running and then you're playing catch up on that money for a while before before you feel like, okay, now I can spend more money on some of these other things that will definitely grow the brand. But people just think like I had a million people just say, you know what you should do? You should spend money on this. So that'll grow your brand.

I'm like, if I had that money, I would have already spent it. I'm like, I'm not an idiot. I know I believe we get friends who say that too. And I'm like, you just don't have any idea and like we're trying to do this with as little debt as possible because like, you don't, I mean, that just sucks.

Like, I'm gonna take money out right now. But that's what that's always what anybody who has no idea how like running a business works. They're just like, you should do this. That's great.

Are you going to give me money for that? So I had a bold business partner. He's a couple of people that should do. You know what you should do?

I know, tell me. And it's always something that, of course, you thought of a million times in which you could just afford to do. Like, so I can't even imagine like again, a small business owner opening a bar is a lot way different. I mean, I still can't even imagine what must have gone into that.

I talked to a little bit of the process of the whole decision to do it. And then like, what are the craziest things you learned about that process? Like, try to open the facility. All of the red tape that's around it, it's a lot.

So a lot of it stemmed from my in-laws retired. And I think my father-in-law really needed something to do. And so him and my husband had, I think it was a conversation over Christmas. I never thought it would go anywhere.

And then it did. It was like, oh, we can do this. Like, we can do this. Like, let's see what happens.

So yeah, that's kind of where that stemmed from. Because there was a lot of brainstorming talking about it. Like during like when COVID hit, I'd say 2020 was more of a brainstorming type of year of how can we do it learning about it. And then once we really got it going was just like the process to get like the distance, like through the state and then a federal distiller license.

Like, it's a lot of work. There's a lot of paperwork. Fortunately, my husband is an attorney if I traded. So he was able to navigate that probably a lot better.

I think if we not been in that position to have him be able to help with things like that, I'm pretty sure that we were able to do it. I would have hired a attorney hired someone to help with that whole process. So yeah, it helped a lot that he was able to do those parts. But it was a lot of so many rules.

It's a lot of waiting and a lot of money. It's like from start to end, you're just getting the licenses in place is crazy. And it's the same way with distribution in each state. It's just it's this waiting game and it's a concept.

Okay, we got this now we need to get there. And it just in every state, you know, I guess it is different. So yeah, we learned anything. It's just it's a lot of rules, a lot of red tape.

And a lot of patience. And a lot of patience. Like a lot of it is which is waiting. We're waiting.

It's not very similar in that respect to it. It's just on a grander scale to like what I do opening the bars because there's so much I take you to jump through every time I've done it. Like even though I've done I've done four spots in like the same tricity area and every time I've done one, the rules have changed a little bit. I'm based on the last time I've done it.

Yeah. And so and there's so much of what you're talking about where it's like money being spent and not like this great great period of time where all this money is going out the door and nothing's coming in like nothing and waiting is what kills it. Yeah. No, it's the same.

That's how like we feel with the distribution thing is like, you know, you get one state and you're like, oh, we got this and then we get to the next one. It's like, now, like whatever you thought you knew you don't know. Yeah. Again, it was similar here with the provincial versus states, but like, yeah, we have completely different rules than you know, Ontario that we do in Quebec or Calgary or Edmonton and even like say trying to get one of your products into Ontario, like you could easily get your whiskey into Alberta as a province because they don't have the same rules as they could.

They have like private liquor stores that can bring him whatever they want. We have to run everything through something called the liquor control board of Ontario and they basically pick and choose what they allow to run through. So they tell us what we're allowed to drink here. And that's how a lot of states in the US that are the same way where they are controlled by the stage.

So they're ABC States and like it's literally the state does the like they allocate the liquor and you go through them and there's no other type of distributor or anything like that. Those are at the bottom of our list. We can ship to those states like online sales, but we want to get there obviously, but not prioritizing those because they do get to determine who gets what. So this must have been quite an eye-opening experience for you because like you said, it's sort of birthed out of you and your husband and your in-laws sitting around saying, oh, this is something we should do.

And then all of a sudden you're just doing it. And so you're and you come from the real estate world or whatever, right? And your husband is a lawyer. So finding out, learning all these fucking rules on the fly must have been really eye-opening.

Oh, it is. It's it's something frustrating. Like I don't know how often we both deserve mentee because we're all like, hey, where are we at with this? He's like, don't want to talk about it.

Yeah. And so many of the rules don't seem to make any logical sense, especially if you were to apply them to any other form of business, right? Yes. Completely accurate.

That is so accurate. Yeah. So that's got to be frustrating as hell. But like, could this be for you guys to still pull it off?

Like, wanted a massive undertaking. I'm sure a massive amount of money that went into the development of this whole project. But so you must have been pretty passionate about the idea, passionate about whiskey, passionate about the story of the family. Yeah.

Like my husband, like he introduced me to whiskey. Like I didn't, I wasn't really much of a whiskey drinker. Interesting enough, my father is actually from Kentucky. So it's kind of funny that I ended up meeting somebody in Kansas that's also from Kentucky.

So like, I had, you know, a little bit of bourbon background for that reason. But like my dad was not exactly like a bourbon con sore. My husband on the other hand really began to it, you know, and he used to me to it. I loved it.

I thought it was great. We had a great time exploring and trying all kinds of different things. And then so any idea did come up, even though I wasn't sure. It would move a lot or not, just because we didn't know like how hard or is it possible.

But we got to that point. It was exciting. Yeah. Well, and whiskey is like, I mean, I'm a whiskey lever and wine lever.

So I always look at those two expressions of alcohol as like the two most fascinating kinds. Like there's just a little tweak here and there in the development of the product can make the flavor so different. The owner on your palate on your nose, like, and the way you, especially with whiskey and wine, the way you age it can have such an effect on it. How you choose to age it.

Like it's really a fascinating process. Oh, really, there's like, there's a lot of whiskey out there with like our mash bill and it's interesting how different they can be. Like, even though we literally put the same thing in the barrel. So it's crazy.

What, how did you guys decide on your mash bill? That was a lot of my husband. We did more of a, we did. So it's 75, 24, 75% corn.

It's a little bit sweeter. I think it appeals to more people. I say it even appeals to people who are not necessarily like whiskey drinkers. Another is not a whiskey drinker, but she likes it.

She likes to drink it. So it does appeal to a wider audience, I think. Women even like it, which, you know, more women are into bourbon now, but I just feel like it's not. It's more of a man's thing in general.

So we have to kind of where we went with it. It's seemed pretty, you're trying to make it appeal to a large audience. And I think we hit that. When we do the events with the tastings, everybody loves it.

We usually people coming back for more. And the other thing about having a sweeter mash bill like that where you're using so much corn is that it really lends itself all the cocktails. Yes, it makes an excellent, like drinking it all the passion. It is like my favorite cocktail, like all drink bourbon.

So it makes a really good cocktail about anything. That's one thing we kind of gotten into in like last year. So we've been bigger on trying to make our own cocktails come up with our own signature cocktails for 1620. And then, which I didn't continue my real series.

Like I should have, but like we got into taking cocktails that are like normally with, I don't know, vodka, Jan, tequila and swapping out that, you know, make a very good bourbon. And so like we make a bourbon margarita all the time. That's one of our signature drinks that we have when we do our events. People love it.

And like you should try that. I promise you would like it is bullet makes a really good bourbon margarita as well. We got a same mash bill as us. So it's a sweeter bourbon and it makes it.

So you it's really good and cocktails. You literally just swap the bourbon for the tequila. Like everything else is the same. Yeah.

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Never tried it.

And we've done it with we've done it with a we swap out rum in a hurricane. So we did like a bourbon hurricane and then we've done. We've done a gimlet. We've done a mojito.

I don't think I've done anything yet that wasn't good. I feel like I can't think of it for every bourbon because not all of them you can swap out. I don't think that. Well, definitely not ones with like a high rye mash right because those are like very spicy and it's not going to work in everything.

Like that's why what I meant when I was saying when you like if you have that kind of a mash bill where it's like you're using a lot of corn then it's going to be sweeter and it just automatically lends itself better to cocktails. It does. It's going to look more versatile than I think a higher something with a higher like right Nashville. So you're right.

That is one thing we do want to get on the shelf. We're hoping to have that by the end of this year. So I was 1620 right out. That's amazing.

And the other thing about the the match bill that you have for your original product is that it does lend itself more to just sipping on its own too because you're not getting that burn that you get with like a high-rise. Mash bill. Yeah. You're completely right there.

And even our full proof one that's like 117 it's still rather smooth for as high as it is. It doesn't burn. It really doesn't burn that bad at all. It's really smooth.

I love it. I guess I'm probably a little biased but it's really good. So besides the ride that you are hoping to develop at some point what else do you have coming down the pipe for 1620? We're trying to do a like a honey barrel like release.

So we we actually have a bunch of beehives. So we took our honey, filled a bourbon barrel with it, let it sit and then emptied it and then you have bourbon honey which we sell in Artesillery. It's really it sounds like it's good. It just has like a bourbon note on the end of it.

It's really good. And then filling the barrels back up with bourbon. So then you get like a honey finished bourbon and we've experimented with it just in small barrels to try it out and it's really good. So that'll be something that'll be coming along as well.

And then doing some like distillery only releases for like single barrels. That's huge. Right? And the bourbon game is the distillery only relieves like the single barrels stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. It's. People love that.

And it's funny because like I understand how it started right? But now it's almost do you feel like it's almost become like sort of a gimmick that almost every small distillery has to have the single barrel. Not that it's not going to be a good product. But it's just like you almost need to have it because you know it's going to sell.

Yes. You have. Yeah. That's what people like.

That's what they want. You got to get the people what they want. And part of the reason that you do right? And then I mean part of the reason we were trying to get the full proof out is because we did was kind of the same reason.

That's a big thing right now. People like the higher proof bourbon, which you know, that's great. So that's what we did. I mean ours turned out great.

But I mean, there's some higher one about there than I got to go. I don't want to completely be on fire all the way. Oh my God. It's not for me.

Also, I drink too quickly. So I don't need it to be higher proof. That's not a calling card for me. That's a negative.

It's like, but also the burn too. It's like the other thing is like you get these super high proof products. You have to be adding a bunch of water to them to make them palatable. Like I don't care what people say.

You're not like with a match bill. Like yours. That's a little different. But like some of these that are like crazy high proof single barrel products.

It's like you're not going to be stepping on that on its own unless you're adding some water, which is fine. But if you're not looking at so much with water, just to avoid the heat on the back end, then you're kind of down looking at the product after a while. A little bit. No, I agree.

And a lot of those. I mean, there are some right out of the barrel. We took a few right out of the barrel when we were like in Colorado and they were civil. But I think they were like a finished type thing too.

So it was a little bit different. They were like amazing right out of the barrel. But that'll seek a fine. Yeah.

I proof that. Yeah. And that's a problem. The worst.

My worst nightmare is very delicious. I proof alcohol. Oh, nothing. Nothing.

Well, nothing you're going to remember anyway. So maybe that's that's the key. It's the next day. You were going to the next day.

You're poor decision. Not if you did it right, Ali. Apparently I don't know. I get the worst thing.

Well, it's been super awesome talking to you. This has been a really cool conversation and we wish you all the best with the 1620 brand. It sounds amazing. Hopefully eventually we'll be able to get it here where we live.

But let us know if there's anything we can ever do to help you with more. Marketing or distribution because you're awesome. Your products sounds awesome. And obviously you're doing something right because you're influencing people about drinking whiskey, which is great.

Thank you. I appreciate you guys having me. I probably will take you up on distribution talking things like that. Yeah.

But my handles are making my dollars in and then to stay up to date on 1620. It's 1620 to sit lane on Instagram and on Facebook. Awesome. So everyone to check those out, especially if you're living in the US and it's easier for you to get those these products.

Yeah, definitely follow everything Ali is doing on our own site and on 1620 as well. Thanks again for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. It's been a pleasure meeting you.

Yeah. Thank you guys. Yeah, thanks very much.