E225 Amy Probasco

This week's guest is Amy Probasco, who joins us from Chicago, Illinois. Amy has been a hospitality professional for nearly two decades. A native of Virginia, Amy has worked throughout the country in high-volume clubs, award-winning restaurants, and nationally recognized craft cocktail bars. Currently, Amy is the in-house mixologist for Beam Suntori, managing the bar at their North American headquarters in Chicago.

In our conversation with Amy, she talks about her personal journey from working in a chain restaurant to establishing the bar program at the James Beard Awarded Girl and the Goat Restaurant, the challenges faced when working in a different role in a different city and different part of the country, the importance of adaptability and networking. We talked about the evolution of drinking culture, the value of an arts background and hospitality, future aspirations within the industry, and as always, a bunch of other topics. Amy is a terrific guest. We had a great time talking with her.

As always, make sure you check out the show notes for all the links and enjoy the show. Okay, we are back with another episode of the industry podcast. My name is Kip. This is Dan.

How are things going? Hey, still awesome in my world. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, pretty much having a good time.

It was when we record this is just after Super Bowl weekend. So that was a Super Bowl weekend. I can't really remember. Yeah, another Super Bowl you won't remember.

That's correct. Congratulations. Yeah, thanks. How was your weekend?

I saw you most of the week. Yeah, I was right there with you. Yeah, sometimes. Yeah, so that's enough about that, I guess.

So, yeah. Not much more to talk about. Yeah. Okay, what we should talk about is when you're planning your next visit to the Kitchener and Waterloo area and how you should be checking out my bars.

Sugar Run, Downdown Kitchener at Sugar Run Bar on Instagram to find out what's going on there. And Babylon Sisters, Babylon Sisters Bar, that's an uptown Waterloo. Come check them out. Lots of events always happening as we're recording today, Valentine's coming up this weekend.

So this weekend. Yeah, but by time the steps don't come up really harsh. That'll be gone. Yeah.

But yeah, something to look forward to in February. Out of the dog days of the bar industry. Yeah, and if you're like what we're doing here on the show, it's the easiest way to help us out is to subscribe or follow the show, rate and review as helps tremendously. And yeah, maybe tell a friend or two.

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That's the easiest way to spread the word. Yeah, if you want to be a guest on the show, info at the industrypodcast.club is how you can get in touch with us. Also to provide support for the show, or you can DM us at the industry podcast on Instagram. And that is where the beautiful artwork from Zacana resides at Zacana dot co.

I should also mention that if you need wine or spirits, you can hit me up directly kypp at Babylon Sisters dot CA representing a Lord is stealing Malivoir winery and terroir wine imports. So hit me up for any of those. And we should mention our good friend Alchemists Ali at alchemist dot Ali for any bar consulting or party for you birthday anniversary wedding bridal shower or we'll have a couple of cocktail classes you can teach as well or just happen in night. Who's experienced?

That's right. So I was also brought to you by our good friends at in Biblioth where you want to check out the Biblioth app for all of your bartending recipes, your craft cocktail recipes. It's great if you're a bartender and you just need a resource for when you're behind the bar. It's way faster than looking at a bar book.

I'll tell you that. Yeah, and he's got this flavor profile visualizer, which is pretty fantastic. So he picked up a different flavors there and a nice little pie chart kind of style and goes back with any concoction you can dream of. And John Mark Dix is very responsive if you have any questions for it as well.

So he's always willing to help out if you have any questions, but so check these show notes for the links for the link for them. Biblioth, yeah, and that's great if you even if you just want to make drinks for yourself at home in Biblioth, the app available wherever you get your apps from. Yes. Yeah, that's that.

Okay, so enough pream, but let's get to our wonderful guests for today's show. Amy Probasco is joining us from Chicago. How are you Amy? Hi, I'm great.

How are you? We're doing all right. The hangover's finally wore off. I'm going to say we recovered.

Okay, good. How do we really recovered 100% but my wallet hasn't recovered. Yeah. But yeah, I think I mostly recovered.

So we're good to go. Yeah. And yeah, so thanks for joining us on the show today. Yeah, of course.

We'll be coming on. So I'm going to start and talk a little bit about how you got into the service industry to begin with. Yeah, absolutely. I am so as a dance major in college actually, but I feel like a lot of the service industry people have a music theater or some sort of artistic background going into it.

So you know, I'll pay the bills as a server at Applebee's in Virginia Beach, Virginia, is where I've found my love of hospitality and just interacting with people and creating experiences. And then I tore my ACL shortly like after college. I know and it was such a bummer and I got more into service industry and then bartending as like a way to pay bills because I wasn't doing what I had hoped I would be doing. And I just fell in love with it.

You know, it was so much fun and it was almost like choreography behind the bar and like interacting. It was, you know, energetic and exciting and kind of like being on stage in a way. So it kind of fit that me, sure. And I was like, no, I think this is what I want to do.

So that's when I really started to fall in love with it in Chicago. You know, I did my really well stint. I feel like a lot of bartenders, especially from my class, like my era, we have those kind of dive bar like really well, we're just pouring sour mix and like pop and beers and shots before we got into the craft cocktail of it all. And it was home and good on the go open in 2010.

So I was on the opening bar staff for good on the go with Stephanie Isard just off of her top chef when and it was insane and busy and incredible. And I learned so much about flavors and layering. And that's when I was like, this is my career, like this is what I'm going to do forever. Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned that about how many hospitality people tend to have some sort of a background in like the performing arts and how similar it is when you are behind the bar because you actually are sort of on display and acting at all times, right?

There it sort of makes sense. Very similar. 100%. I think honestly that people with those types of personalities tend to gravitate to those front of house positions more than back of house.

You know, I in talking to back of house. They love the excitement, you know, because they have real high energy, like high pressure jobs as well, but they don't have to deal with the people while doing those high pressure jobs quite as much. And I think that's the big difference is those front of house employees really do thrive in that interaction with people and that kind of all eyes on you put on your face, tatara, show pony, like here I go situation. So I think those dramatic arts backgrounds really do lend themselves to that type of career choice.

Yeah, and it's it's funny because like it's a similar effect to like when you're shifted over, you just have that sort of drainage of like you spent all your social energy for the evening, which I imagine is very similar to like finishing like a night. Like if you're acting at a play or something like that, 100% it was finishing, you know, I was a dancer, but I can imagine probably like Broadway or plays. It's like you just have to like be quiet for a little while and kind of wind down. And it's been interesting because I always assumed that everyone in this field was like an extrovert, especially for an outside they put that outfit on and it's been so funny.

I think during COVID, really a lot of people realized that like we're kind of introverted extroverts where we do need that recharge time afterwards to like gear up for, you know, your next day kind of in battle. Yeah, for sure. So you mentioned that you were working in Regglevo for, you know, you were you're not from Chicago originally, you were from Virginia. No, Virginia, Virginia.

And I got my start at Applebee's and then the cheesecake factory, which was very fancy for Virginia. And I was able to transfer to the Chicago location. Those chain restaurants have the most amazing and like regimented training programs and systems and operations. And so you can really take it to any location.

It's just a matter of like learning table numbers and, you know, server stations and then you're off and running. So I transferred to Chicago through the cheesecake factory thinking that I was like so high end. Like I was like, I'm going to work at like the premier restaurant in Chicago. I mean, I got there and I was like, Oh, like there's a whole other world of, you know, cuisine and food and beverage and I had no idea.

So, you know, I did really was fun because, you know, I'm like in my early 20s, like we're partying and we're hanging out and it's like, Oh, do you want to be a beer temp girl? Two dollar early lights and making the most money you've ever made in your life in your early twenties. And I'm like, Yeah, I definitely do that. Yeah, it's funny.

Those bars I I've been to Chicago multiple times and like gone to Cubs games as well. And like that whole area of Chicago is so different than like if you go to. So what's the what's the area now where there's all those sort of higher end cocktail bars? Like the West Loop has some low school.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I was saying. I feel like they're everywhere now, but the hustle for sure has a lot of the hotels and the higher end.

Right. And just like, I mean, all big cities are like to say different areas, but just like the difference between going from that regular bill area to like going to the cocktail bars on the West Loop. That was a very loud opener for you as well. Oh, it was such a culture shock.

I mean, you are used to this even now, I think Chicago is so separated by neighborhoods. And when we talk about like regional drinking patterns in the country, I feel like even in the neighborhoods in the city, it's so different. Like the way that people drink in really really really can park is, you know, more sports bars and kind of college focused and then when you get into Logan Square or river nor that's just it's such a different experience and environment. So learning craft cocktails, going to like the West Loop, I think, go only go.

It's one of the first kind of hiring, like I remember getting off work. It's one of the hiring restaurants. We would get off work and have like nowhere to go. We'd have to like, you know, take a cab.

Uber wasn't even, I was like 2010, like Uber just come out. So we had to walk or take the bus to go to drink afterward because there hadn't all these bars out of there now weren't there when we opened. So it was cool to get that shift and also to be such an integral part of like building that neighborhood up and like seeing the change from what was essentially a meatpacking district, you know, like there was all of those like big trucks and like people in like the white kind of lab coats walking around and you'd hear these announcements. And now it's just like insane hotels and nice stores and like, you know, super high in restaurants and bars and it's like spin such a shift.

So that was sort of one of the first like high in restaurants in that area. And so you and you were part of the opening team. How did you make that connection from like working in Reggleville to getting that gig opening that restaurant? I did have one in between there.

I worked at the Blackstone Hotel and they opened a restaurant called Mercat Alaplancha. I believe it's still there and it was a Jose Garces restaurant. So he was like a really well-known chef in Philadelphia. He was coming to do his like Chicago outpost and that was kind of like bridge the gap for me between like sour mix and fresh juice and you know, it's ready to do syrups and making your own.

So that was, but it was still, we weren't like quite in craft yet. Like that hotel bar experience, I feel like it's kind of that bridge between like super high craft versus like kind of dive bar college bar. So I had that at least a little under my belt, but I remember interviewing, I feel like I read about it on a website. Like we'd all seen Stephanie on TV and we're like, she's that girl.

She's so nice. She's so energetic. And there was like a posting on it wasn't culinary agents, but like an adjacent website that's like, come, you know, interview to be in Stephanie guys or dress around staff. So I went and I told her straight up, I was like, I don't have the experience to work here, but I'm really fun and I'm really nice and I will study my ass off.

And she was like, honestly sold. Because her home mentality was like, I can train anybody to bartender cook, but I can't train the personality. I can't train that, you know, ability to be under pressure and still be nice to people. Right.

And just like hard working and like dedicated, because that's the, I often find like just in hiring my own staff, that's sometimes the hardest, those are the hardest qualities to get in a new employee is like the people who are just going to be dedicated, work hard, loyal to you and are able to like sort of leave their personal life at the door when they come in and you're right, you can train everything else. Right. Like even now that I've kind of come through the ranks and I've trained barbacks who now own their own bars or like are doing really great things. It's you look for that, that excitement, right?

You know, I don't know that stuff interviewed anyone more excited than me that day. No amp to be there. It's just like, I can teach you how to hold a bar spoon or a jigger or what the build for, you know, a lot of Louisiana is, but I can't teach you how to be kind or engaging or be excited about like the product that I'm trying to sell. So she did, like that was her whole hiring mantra was like, I'm hiring people that create a vibe and energy that I want.

And then the rest of it is kind of my job. Like if I have a train to them properly, that's where I fail, but like they need to bring who there is people, you know, in here, I don't think we have very much turnover there for the first like two and a half, three years, because she did that so well. We really were like so cohesive as a staff. And we all just wanted to stay there.

Like it was such a crazy chaotic party and we all had the best time. And so that was kind of trial by fire for you then, right? Like you said, you had a brief experience at the other restaurant, but you're kind of learning. This is where you sort of learn how to become a craft cocktail.

Oh, yeah, I was by far the youngest bartender that they hired. And I think I was one of two women at the time, you know, very, very of that era. And there was a gentleman named Ben Schiller, who's like, he was my bar mentor and he's gone and opened some amazing bars in Chicago. And you know, he's just like very tall.

I want to say he's like six foot five, like just like broad-shouldered dude. And Baldwin, he's like, okay, no, we're going to do this. And he's showing you these buildings and we're going to build this and stir this. I don't think I'd ever stirred a cocktail like in a mixing glass and straighten it.

And you've got to hold the spoons while I'm watching it and do it. And I'm nodding again, the theater background, we're like, mmm, mmm. Oh, totally, I get that. And I like stole, I brought it back.

I guess they borrowed a mixing glass and a spoon and brought it home that night to like practice because he said the next day we were all going to make cocktails together. And I was like, I have to look like, I know how to do this in front of these bartenders and I was like, I didn't want the other bartenders to know. I just, it was so much winging it. And honestly, thank goodness for that audition experience as a dancer, just to be like, well, I guess I'm going to go.

Yeah, do you find that that sort of background helped you in that area where you're kind of like, because a job of that is an audition in many ways, but you've already gone through the experience of like, and those auditions, like you can either just like say, go with it or you can be scared, let's say you're going to fail and see it kind of teaches you how to like get over that fear and just be like, well, what's the worst thing? Like it happens, you don't get it, right? Right. And it's like that fake it till you make it.

I remember being 16 and I'm at an audition in front of like Joffrey ballet and you know, all these incredible colleges and summer programs. And I forgot the dance combination in the middle of it. Like it's a series of songs that we do it and go but I fully forgot. I was like, well, I can't stop jumping.

Right. So I just made up the steps and I did it so confidently that half the girls behind me like copied what I was doing because they were wrong. And I've just like embraced that through so many parts of my career, even now, like I did sales for a while and no one tells you how to be a brand ambassador. You just have to kind of go in there and hope for the best.

No one tells you how to transfer to corporate now that I'm like corporate mixologist. So I feel like that like screw it, you know, like with that, like we're doing a live. Like that's really followed me through my whole career. And like honestly, thank goodness.

Cause I feel like it's brought so much success of just being able to like, I might suck, but at least I'm going to do this with enthusiasm and like hope for the best. Well, and the thing is about that too is like it's easier said and done obviously, but that once you get that mindset, it's like when you really start thinking about like what is the worst that can happen? Like they just say, no, you don't get the job or you don't get the audition or whatever it is. Right.

The role of the like who cares? Who cares if you're making drinks, right? Like this is rain surgery. It's like go have fun.

You might not people have called drinks I've never heard of. And it's like, I don't, I can't get my head about it. I'm just like, Oh, like tell me about it. Or what's in it?

Or you know, I'm working with more experienced bartenders, like some icons that I've had growing up that you get to work with. And you're just like, I'm just going to have to go and like, what's the worst that happens? Right? Like I do it wrong.

And they tell me how to fix it or like, you know, if I lose this job, I'm sure I could get a new like, take a look and get something new. So I really feel like that audition experience that, you know, arts and drama and theater experience is really, really helpful for a lot. I think that's why those people are so successful in this field honestly. Yeah, maybe.

Yeah. I wonder. Well, now you don't even need the fake it to make it. And now we have in Bibliothe.

So that's right. Yeah. So so you worked at the girl and go for how long? So I was there for four and a half years.

Yeah. There's a lot of time. And I honestly, I remember leaving the first time I left. I was like, why did I ever leave?

I love this place. But I was hungry for something else. Like a different style of bartending. I wanted to learn, you know, girl, I got was busy from 4.30 in the afternoon until 12.30 at night.

We had people waiting outside to get in. I was serving people sitting at the bar full dinners while I had five deep behind them and I'm making drinks for them while I'm like clearing plates. And all of our cocktails had to be like low touch, you know, not crazy garnishes because we just couldn't keep up with the volume otherwise. And I feel like craft cocktails.

It's like 2014 now. Crafts are really starting to leave those big city markets from like the early 2007s like in New York and, you know, milk and honey and we're starting to kind of ease into the rest of the country. And it was like, OK, now I'm ready to kind of step this up. And what is this double straining and what are all these secondary spirits that like I don't get to really play with as often?

So I went to so how Chicago was opening right next door to go and I don't know if you've done a website, but it is so slick. And I was like, oh, that looks so sexy. Like I'm going to do that. So I was there.

And within the first month of being there, they made me the assistant bar manager, which was insane because I had never done anything like that. But I was like crazy. I've always been kind of bar mom adjacent. So I was the crazy person that was like organizing the coolers on my downtime because all the labels weren't facing the right way.

And I was like, honestly, this girl will probably work for cheaper and she's working really hard. So I don't know where to go. Right. They nailed it.

Like they locked me. They saw it coming and I did it for about a year. And it was the opening of that, there was like five outlets in one building. So they have a members level and then there's other outlets that are open to the public.

And that was maybe the most chaotic here in my life. But I learned so much working there, like try by fire again. So things failed so miserly. But it was like, well, I guess we can't close the entire building.

So like, how do we fix it? So is that you starting to at this point come up with your own cocktails? Yeah. And I was where that started.

So how has yeah, really? So grown ago, Stephanie was really great at letting us be creative. So Ben Schiller was the opening like bar manager, like he did the cocktail for the bokeh group. Chicago's really known for having like restaurant groups that own places that you probably don't even know are owned by the same people because they're also different.

And Bokeh joined with Stephanie and they helped open that space and then she was he didn't talk just for all of Bokeh at the time. So he didn't work at Girl in the Go Full Time. So eventually the bartenders, we started being like, well, we want to be creative. We want to come up with stuff.

And Stephanie was really collaborative in that. So everything had to go through her before it was put on the menu. And she really brought up an amazing culinary perspective to it where it's like, oh, it's rhubarb season. Here's like fresh rhubarb because she was very kind of farmed to table in that way too.

And she's like, here's this local produce that I got. I'm going to teach you how to clean it and like puree it and we're going to make serves with it. And then we're going to see how we can do that. Here's the stuff in the kitchen that we couldn't use.

So I dipped my toe into it. I could only go and I started being like invited to meetings with buyers and like tasting and like learning. They had an incredible bourbon program. So then by the time I got to Soahouse, I was like, OK, I'm ready.

Like you can take the training meals off. You know, I don't have a chef that's like helping mentor and guide me, but like I think I'm ready to like do this on my own. So there was always what they call like how special that like all the Soahouses had. And then you were allowed each location is like regional cocktails on their own.

And that's when I really got to like put cocktails on menu and decide which base spirits I wanted in those cocktails and like work with, you know, the bar manager and be like, this is the best cow we should carry. And this is the bourbon that I want. So that was a really fun experience as well. So a lot of the people we've talked to over the years have had sort of a culinary background and moved into craft cocktailing and obviously the craft cocktail world has so much moved in that direction of like sort of the culinary approach to cocktails.

But you sort of got yours almost like through the back door because without having to work in the back of the house, you got that sort of influence from step. Yeah, absolutely. I got really lucky. I know I feel like especially now because there's social media and TikTok and I wasn't, you know, watching videos of other countries and other bartenders the way that younger bartenders are now.

So it's funny to me bartenders in the 20s who've only ever worked in craft cocktails bars and have only ever like owned a flavor by the whole like made their own tinctures. I'm just like, you guys don't even know. It happens in 2000. So I think having that experience is so funny to me, but I'm kind of jealous of like they've always just had those tools at their hand, like at their fingertips to just know like, Oh, strawberry and balsamic go together.

Whereas like I was stealing kind of from stuff, but even like desserts have always been really big where it's like, why would you put those flavors together? And like, oh, that's really cool. So it was really fun to have a chef that was so hands on, but it's also been neat to see bartenders now who don't have that culinary, but are still gaining that same knowledge through different outlets, right? Yeah, it's interesting.

Because it's definitely moved very much in that direction. You could argue maybe almost too much now. But yeah, so you at so house for a while. And then what point do you start making move into like selling spirits?

It was actually at so house I was I really fell in love with a brand called Comia. It's a triple sec. They have a whole line of the course and I put it in a couple of different cocktails and the gentleman that owned the company was here in Chicago, his name, Scott Goldman. And he came to an event that I was doing where I was talking about the product like, completely on my own accord, right?

Like not sponsored. This is just the thing I love. And he reached out to me afterwards and he asked if I would ever be interested in selling the keys that you have a natural energy and you obviously have enthusiasm for this. Have you ever thought about sales?

And I was like, no, like that never crossed my mind. I just assumed I would bar manage and be like director of ops or like a, you know, beverage manager. But it sounded really fun. I had a lot of friends who were brand ambassadors.

This was when brand ambassadors were starting to really become like the stars, the like movie stars. And we've got social media really kind of, you know, coming on its own and I'm watching all these videos and photos and like, you know what? Yeah, let's do that. Like let's have fun with it.

So I left so home house and got into sales with Comie, see, and I brands as what they're called now, cauldron, no, because they have a whole portfolio now. So in addition to Comie, it was such an eclectic portfolio. It was like, Chile and Pisco, Mezcal, like we had a French cider. It was crazy.

But I was like, yeah, let's go. Like let's sell it. So I did that in Chicago for about a year and a half. And then they promoted me and I moved to New York City when sales and I was in New York for a year.

I was like 27, a teenish. And so you're so pretty young when this is all happening, huh? Yeah, yeah, definitely. But I didn't, I feel like bartending ages.

You're like, you've been so much. Yeah. And you, but I, that energy that it took to be to do sales, because what like we were talking about earlier, when you're done with your bar shift or your front of house shift, you kind of can go home and just like be quiet and you have, or you can go to a bar and be invisible. Yeah.

And once you become a brand ambassador specifically, you're kind of on all the time. Yeah. Like, because people start to know your face, you represent a brand. And so no matter where you go, people are saying, hi, you have to be like, oh, hey, what's up?

It's great to see you. Like, you're constantly networking. So there's, it was so much more exhausting because you don't get that break. Like you're just like, you're so turned to 100.

It's so hard to find those moments to like recharge and rest. And you can't like go to the end to the bar and like get blackout drunk either. Like that's the only thing you're going to make you ask yourself. And that like, that's fine when you're just a bartender somewhere.

100%. But like it's different when you're representing a brand. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, that call me a girl or like that.

That being that Jim being bourbon girl was in here. Like, you're like, oh God. Yeah. It's a real classy, classy spirit.

They're hocking there. Exactly. Exactly. It's funny, but like, then it's not.

You know what I mean? Like, they're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, when you was it hard to like, okay, obviously you had been in Chicago for some time at this point and like doing, moving from bartending to sort of high octane bars where you're meeting a lot of people all the time. It's kind of easy to transition to sales and stay in the same city because you already know so many people. 100% When you moved to New York, now you probably don't know anybody.

So talk about that transition of like trying to do a sales job in a completely foreign city, do you? It's the hardest thing. I'm like, in one of the hardest things I've ever done. The transitional one was hard.

Chicago is one of those incredible, like big small cities where the bartending community specifically is so close knit and we, six degrees of separation know each other. And we, you know, there's a little bit of competition. Like, oh, did they get this award or did they get that job? But by and large, we really are each other's biggest fans.

And we feel like Chicago goes harder. And I'm not supporting the system that I had built for the last, you know, six, seven years was already really hard. And then I'm trying to hawk these products and feel like, I don't know you. I don't care who you are.

I don't need a $40 triple sec. Yeah. Exactly. When you're trying to sell high end brands too.

It's hard to explain to anybody why they would need like a nicer triple sec on their back bar, right? Yeah, like New York, everything is already so expensive. Like it's why I need this. And so it was really, and I'm not an aggressive person and also in sales.

I'm more of like a soft sell. So like I might one of the biggest accounts I landed, I went into this account every week during their manager meeting, but I said nothing. I just was like eating at the bar, like eating breakfast at the bar. I guess it was kind of lunchtime at for three months.

And finally after three months, the bar manager is like, okay, what do you want? You know, that's my kind of sales tactic is like, I don't want to, I'm not going to come in super hot, but I believe in what I'm selling. So but New York is not that New York is like, come in, it's aggressive. It's let me know what you want.

So even that I felt like I got swallowed whole, but I mean, honestly, I don't even know I did it. I was successful, but also at the end of that contract, I was like, no, thank you. I'm done with sales. Yeah.

And it was at that point, were you missing bartending too? Because I think it's such a different, it seems like it's the same thing because you're selling booze at the bar when you're bartending, but the sales job, because I have transitioned to doing some of this as well, the sales stuff. And it's not, it's similar, but it's definitely not the same. It's like, no, it's not the same.

Yeah, like when you're bartending, they're coming to you, they already want what you have. I want to, okay, this is where I feel like the huge disconnect is because people who run these brands like, oh, I've seen you behind the bar, you're still charismatic. Everybody's buying stuff from you. And I'm like, yeah, but that's the difference between someone coming in and I'm deciding that they want to upscale like, you know, upcharge a margarita, like instead of the well we're going to do is back bar versus me walking down the street of Chicago in 20 degree, I'm like, who wants a margarita?

Yeah, exactly. That's it. Yeah. So, you know, and then doing it in New York where people don't know me, you don't care.

It was really, really hard. And it was just also exhausting because New York is not like Chicago where I can like go out, catch a quick Uber to my house for two hours and then go back out. Once you're out, you know, you're in Harlem, you're in Long Island, you're in Brooklyn, you're out for the day and those are like 12, 13 hour days, but you're not getting the joy being behind a bar with the music and the energy and the people, you're just like, schlepping your samples on the train. Yeah.

And then you're like, oh, a full fucking day and don't sell anything. Or even get anyone to talk to you. No, yeah. Like get out of here.

Like absolutely not. And just like, please take my card. Yeah. Like we don't have to talk for like, let me email you.

And it's so much following up with it. I think like, yeah, like that's not the admin. They don't tell you about the admin. It looks really good.

You're seeing these like events and parties, but they don't tell you about the 13 emails that you got that morning or people not answering or also bartenders and a tourist. I'm also the worst at not answering or following up or being last minute and then you're a sales person who all of a sudden has to keep a schedule and you're like, this person hasn't gotten back to me. Like, do we have a class where so many things kind of out once and there's no playbook for brand jobs. Like there are bartending books that you can buy and read.

There are classes you can watch online. You can kind of get an idea of like how to do that job. Brand ambassador is like, every brand is different. Every person's idea of what they want from you as an ambassador is different.

And then they're just like, go get them kid. You know, figure it out. And it's like so overwhelming. Like the number of times that I was just like in tears and my roommate, he was like one of my good friends and he was like, God, this, he's like sending me like clips of like Martin Sheen, you know, in some movie where he's like talking sales and he's like, go get them do this anymore.

So it was nice. I had a small support group in New York, but I did miss bartending. And after that, I was like, okay, I've grown enough. Really?

I want to be kind of just comfortable. And I got back into bartending in New York and I actually helped open a bar in Midtown called Vida Verde. And it started as like a very serious agave bar, but like most bars, you think you know what the program is, but then the people in the clientele tell you what it's going to be. So we have this insane back bar, all these beautiful agave spirits, crazy cocktails.

Like they had hired some of the guys from dead rabbit to come in and do our opening cocktail menu and consult into trainings, which I will never give those train materials away as long as I live. Like my prize position is no great. And then it's Midtown. So we have our first day and people like, you make like spicy margaritas.

Yeah. I'm going to get a old fashioned but with tequila and you're like, yes. So I did that for a few months and then I had an old friend in Chicago call me and say like I'm opening a bar. I've been interviewing people but nobody has your like, I need a personality hire basically that no drinks but can be that person.

Would you come back and all I needed was like one excuse to get back to Chicago. And I was like, bet I'll be out here in four weeks. I'm gonna stop at my apartment. I'll be, I can't wait to go home.

And I was like back in Chicago, you know, 11 and a half months after I moved. But that's good because it speaks to like the reputation you had built for yourself before you left, right? For someone to know that you had already moved to like what some people would consider a snap up in your career to a bigger city and like they would even reach out to you and be like, would you come back? Like that says a lot to about you.

Thank you. I'm, that's very flattering. I was super flattered but that's also one of the things I love about Chicago. Again, with that like big small city is like when you are kind and people know that you work hard, it really is like we take care of each other.

It's like, oh, I trust this person. I know like we will help each other out. We need to, whether it's like events or seasonal work, it's like, you know, we're going to make sure that the homies are taken care of. And Chicago is also like a nonsense that if you don't kind of pull your weight, if you don't show up and get a better video, like that also travels.

Right. Yeah. But I was really nervous about coming home because you know, you feel kind of this huge deal about moving goodbye forever. Yeah.

It's almost embarrassing, right? But it's like, I was so nervous like people are going to think I'm a failure or that I could make it in the big city. Yeah. And I was really kind of trepidatious about coming back.

But again, with Chicago, it wasn't, it was almost like Narnia. Like I left and had this incredible growth experience with sales and people I didn't know and doing, and then I came back through the closet and it was just like, oh, hey girl, do you want to go to our favorite bar again after work today? Yeah. And I was like, oh, right.

Like this is fine. No one cares. Right. Anything back?

You care more than anyone else does. Right. And now I feel like I tell people all the time when they want to make big moves whether nervous, I'm like, you can just come back. That's right.

Or just pick a new city. Like if you go to LA and it doesn't work out then like pick a new city, maybe you go to Denver, maybe you go to Boston, like who cares? Yeah. And it's funny.

And like when I was coming up in the industry, that would be, even though I love traveling, I would have been a terrifying proposition to be picked up and moved like to a massive city, like, and start over. But now, I feel like the younger generation of people they just do that all the time, now we talked to so many people who were just like, Oh yeah, it was in New York when I was in LA. I was in Chicago, like it's like, Jesus Christ, I've been sleeping my wares in the same fucking small town for a third year now. That was like my favorite life lessons.

Like, oh, it doesn't really matter. Like go to a city, if it doesn't stick, if it's not for you and I'm like, who cares, pick a city. Especially when you do our job, like that could be one of the features of this job is that you can do it everywhere. And like when I was traveling, when I was younger, that was certainly a feature I could like work when I traveled.

I wanted if I chose to, right? But the idea of like moving back then was not. No, I felt so big. I get like, do anything to now, again, with like the internet and social media, you see all these other bars who are getting recognition in a way that like, I didn't have exposure to.

So it doesn't feel as weird. Like, oh, yeah, this bar that I've been watching on Instagram for months that I love, like maybe I should go try to work there. Right, yeah. We didn't have that.

That's right, yeah. Behind the scenes kind of exposure to it. And then we got to see the social media as made the world smaller in a way that you realize, oh, it's just another fucking bar. I know how to do that.

Exactly. Whereas like for us, when we were coming up through this industry, like we didn't have that resource. So any moves seemed massive. Like.

Yes. And it was so intimidating because you had no idea what you were getting into. And so I really do appreciate now that it's like, taking kind of the scary mystery away. And just like, yeah, like I could do that.

Why not? When you moved, I want to get into what you're doing now, but I just had one more question about New York. Like, did you find, and if you don't feel comfortable answering this, we'll just cut it out. But did you find that you were making enough money in that sales job to live in New York?

Will. You don't have to answer it. You don't want to. No, I did.

So I was really lucky. So the people that own cadre noir, they're based in Chicago and New York. So one of the two brothers and Kurt Goldman of New York, he had been living there. So they understood like what that cost of living was.

So they were really fair with compensation. But even then, what would have been so great in Chicago, I was like, I would have to really watch where I go out to eat, what I do. I was really lucky. Brand ambassadors, I think too.

Or if you work for a brand, you usually have an expense account to some extent where you can go out and spend money. So I did have that as well as kind of a cushion. I can't imagine anyone else going and working and making that much money. Just as a bartender with no expense account to kind of spend and being able to live.

Like the amount of money I was paying for rent was higher, but so are Uber, so are grocery. The more things out. So you don't really think about that. Like, oh, a cereal in Chicago is $3, but in New York, it's $5.50.

And like, all of that stuff kind of adds up. Especially if you're making like what would have been decent selling in Chicago. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And I, the New York bar seed really does take care of it. So in Chicago, if you go to see a home at the bar and they buy all your rounds, you're kind of expected to like tip a bunch. You know, like really hooking them up.

Whereas in New York, I found, at least for me, when I would go out, it was, they would hook you up, but they didn't expect a giant tip. They just expected you to return the favor. Right. When you're at there bar because that's the only way that we are going to afford drinking at each other's bars.

And like being able to experience some of these high end restaurants and crowd party bars. So it was more of like a barter like return versus a like, I'm expecting a monetary hookup. Right. That's really cool.

It is like the New York industry that I experienced. I got really lucky. And I'm my best friend now, her name is Kayla, but we met literally my first night that I was there and she'd been there for four years. And I also taught me a lot about that culture because I'm trying to like throw down dollar bills.

And she's like, no, no, just make sure you take care of them on the return. So having a good time. That's interesting. I never, we haven't talked to anyone who's sort of dropped that little bit of knowledge on this here.

It's like the difference in culture and how you take care of each other. And it is. It's different in different countries. It's different in different cities.

But generally the practice is, oh, here's a bunch of money. But that was just my experience. Like one thing that I really noted that I loved. And I don't know if that's for everybody or if it still is a thing, but I really enjoyed that where the bartenders were like, I can't give your money.

But when you put these in, you pick them up a little don't give me wrong, but if they didn't expect $100 they were just like, I'm going to come sit at your bar. And it would be cool if you also like, you know, help me get around or took an industry discount off of my food or whatever. And I really loved that closeness of the like New York bar scene. That's good.

So let's talk about what you're doing now. You are backing the brand ambassador game. So talk to us about your current role. Yeah, so I'm I was it's brand ambassador adjacent.

So what I love. I work for Centadori Global Spirits and there's other companies that have this role as well. But my official title which sounds, you know, kind of is corporate mixologist, which is like just so funny. Cause I feel like most people avoid the word mixologist.

Yeah, I was excited to get a bit of a heater back live. So they're about, yeah. It looks really good for corporate business on a card and stuff. I'm not going to push back on the title of it.

I, it's a multifaceted job. The primary focus that I really love is I do get to work with a lot of like national accounts. So if you think about like Landry's, Darden, Applebee's, Olive Garden, P.F. Chang's, as well as some of the more like regional accounts that maybe don't have maybe 25 locations instead of 250.

And I get to craft cocktails with our portfolio of spirits. So Santori Global was being Santori until recently. So all of Jim Beam brands, we also have like Makers, Mark, El Tasoro, you know, Sipsmith's, Jin, House of Santori, really beautiful Japanese whiskey is obviously the Jim Beam bourbon family. So I have this really incredible portfolio of base spirits that I get to work with to create cocktails to present to like larger, you know, regional and chain accounts as well as like locally.

So people in Chicago, like so, Fotel or, you know, Drake Hotel or even just like individual one-off accounts can come in. I have a beautiful bar in the office. They can do R&D sessions or I can create cocktails and present and we can do like a collaborative session. So that's like the external facing part of it.

And then I do a lot of internal trainings, competitive tastings, working with brand teams who have people that are brilliant at marketing, but have never seen the back of our or know how it works. And like, does this make sense for bartenders? We want to roll this program out and I get to listen to me when I say like, absolutely not. That's the worst I've ever heard.

Here's why. And I really love that I work for a company that respects that opinion and wants someone that has like trade experience to be able to speak to, you know, what folks in the on-premise are looking for, which is really fun. And to see not just distributors, I know like Southern Glazers has mixologist on staff, break through beverage, or some distributors that have mixologist. And then, you know, now we have like Centric Global, I know, Compari has them.

So it's really fun to watch these bigger companies kind of bring people who probably just thought they were career behind the bar into that corporate world to like better connect with bartenders. Yeah. And that seems to be happening more often. Like you mentioned with all these companies doing that, it's obviously like it's when you think back about it on it now, it's almost ludicrous that they weren't doing that from the jump.

Like it's like, you know, when you go to a bar or a new bar that's opened and you can tell that they it was just some dudes who like to drink at bars or like I should open a bar and they know and you can tell me that just by the layout of like how everything is said, you're like, oh, they didn't consult anyone who knew what they were doing. No. Yeah. The struggle of opening a new because I love opening.

So like a lot of like girl in the go to the house, you know, where all those were brand new restaurants that I got to be in. And you see the struggle of like the bar manager and then the designer, like you have someone like this would be so pretty. And you're like, where's the trash can go, bro? Yeah.

I'm like, what are you talking about? It's so true. It's so true. But I have worked at some of those bars that like that were opened by people didn't know what the fuck they were doing.

And you get back there and like, why is the glass washer here? Like, you know, where is the glass washer? Like, what the glass is like, there's no where for dirty. Yeah.

Exactly. And like, where's my sink? Like, what are you talking about? I know.

And that's like something like you should that should just be like the base. Like, get someone else what they're doing. Like you would build a condo without talking without like checking with people and saying where they like their beds, you know, and where the plumbing should be. Yeah.

Like the toilet, but you would never do that. So like, why are you putting sinks in places behind the bar that like don't make any sense at all? It's so interesting to me. I believe this because I got into kind of consulting, you know, like in sales, you meet people that run programs and you help them kind of make like who knows what to do with chili and P.

So like here, I came up with some party ideas. So then those people will like reach back out to me even when I'm not with that company. Like, hey, can I pay you to help with them? And then you write and I'm always like, if I leave what I do now, I'm going to open and all like one stuff.

We're like, people will come to me to help you build your bar from scratch to finish because I just feel like so many of these designers are they have no idea what's going on. That's exactly what I want to do because I've just done so many of them now in so many weird spaces to do them that I'm like, I can do this anywhere now. Like, yeah, like I can do it in a small space. I can do it in a larger space.

I can do it doesn't seem like it's going to make sense. Like, you know, I can't bring this out. I need to tap into the market because social media creates such a bubble. So like, none of my friends or even because their members need that service because they all know it.

So how do we find those people that have never opened a bar that are like, we should open a bar, dude. And I'm like, call me. I'll tell you what, Amy, when we're done recording here, you and I can start our company and we'll just call it for finance, bros. I don't know exactly where to go.

The first thing that comes up, it'll be fine. So you like bars? Yeah. We got a deal for you.

Honestly, I'm in. Well, thanks so much for spending time with us tonight. Amy, that was super fun. And I'm excited for whatever comes next for you.

Obviously, you got a pretty good gig right now. So sounds awesome. Like, I like it. Yeah.

And like, you get to do so many different things too, which is nice. Like, it's often like you say you get in one of the sales jobs and that's all you do. You're just selling and doing the admin bullshit. That's so boring, right?

Whereas like, you have this, you've found this role for yourself where you get to do what you like to do, but also so many in so many different ways. No, it's the best. Yeah. I really want like, that's my like final message to Bartender.

So we're like, I don't want to brand a massive, like be a brand as a don't want to be a manager corporate life. Like, you could get into commercial marketing with brand chains, field marketing. They do events, brand education, project management. Like, I think Bartender's forget that our skill set actually makes us so ready for other jobs in the outside world.

And I'm just like, maybe that could be our second business. We will consult for people that want to get into corporate. There you go. Yeah.

And we'll help our tenders get into like other fields that they can do that are adjacent because it's been like the joy of my life working for this company. So I would love to see other bartenders kind of realize making those dreams come true. But thank you all so much for having me. This is great.

We haven't even been talking for now. We've already started two new businesses. Yeah. No, thanks again.

It was an absolute pleasure talking to you and best of luck with everything. And yeah, hopefully we'll see you down the line sometime. Perfect. Thank you.

All right. And before you go, though, if anyone wants to get in touch with you online or find out what you're up to next, what's the best way to do that? Yeah, I do Instagram. I'm not a TikTok girl.

It's that full millennial. We're keeping it on Instagram. But it's Aimsley P A M E S L Y underscore P send messages, talk, let's talk cocktails. Let's talk knock cocktails.

We can talk pop music, which is love. We can talk drag queens, whatever you want. Awesome. Wonderful.

I'll put a link to that in the show notes. Thanks again, Amy. Thank you so much. Okay.