This week's guest is Esther Dawson who joins us for an in-person interview. Esther currently works as the Somalia, Silerly and Food and Beverage Content creator at Langdon Hall, Royal A. and Shetto in Cambridge, Ontario. Growing up in Uxbridge, Ontario, Esther moved to Waterloo Region for college where she studied music and theology.
Upon graduation, Esther landed a job at Langdon Hall's hostess and her career rapidly ascended from that point. We talk with Esther about how her degree helped her in her current career. Esther talks about her career progression at Langdon Hall. We discuss several of the different wine and spirit certification programs currently available and the similarities and differences between them.
We talk about the process of going through a blind tasting. Esther talks about some of the more unique wines that she's had a chance to drink. Plus, we also cover a host of other topics. We want to thank Esther once again for coming over for an in-person interview.
Make sure you check out the show notes for all the links. And as always, enjoy the show. Okay, we're back with another episode of the industry podcast. I'm Kip, this is Dan.
How's it going? Hey, it's still awesome. Yeah, no change there. Yeah, yourself.
Pretty good. Just recovering from the last weekend of Babylon Sisters. That was a fun time. Yeah.
Two in a row. Yeah. I'm gonna maybe wrap it up in one night instead of four. Yeah.
Yeah, but I want to say this is no more. So, you can pour one out for that bar. Yeah, that's unfortunate. There's an end of the narrow.
That was a lot of fun. Thanks for hosting the bar and hosting all your friends there all the time for the last couple of years. It was good. Yeah.
Good times. And now quite relieved to have it off my plate. I also heard this crazy story that I wanted to tell you about. That's I'm not going to tell you, as you know, in my side gigs selling booze and wine.
I'm traveling all over the province. So, I won't tell you where this occurred. But I'm talking about Bartender, who's a bar. It does the living wage thing.
Oh, yeah. Which is great. And they guess and like I've gone in there several times and tips. Yeah.
And they keep the tips. The owners keep the tips and tell the servers that they use those tips to support their living wage. Which is about the shadiest fucking thing I've ever heard. Wow.
And really, it's the whole purpose of that is obviously those servers and bartenders will be making more of it. They just got the tips and we're paid the regular minimum wage. So is the order told you this? No, the bartender.
Bartender. Yeah. Hi. I don't know what this outfit thought out.
Not so entertaining. And funny because we've had several conversations on the show. But for the whole living wage versus tip thing, we even had a round table with a couple of gentlemen from. Pro more is it?
Yeah. Pro more set. And what's the other D starts with the. Anyway, I'm back to our archives and check it out.
We had a round table on the merits of the living wage versus the tip method. Our friends, Wes and John, who have been on the show before, used the living wage method at Odd Duck. So, but just to hearing that and knowing that how shady, first of all, I'm pretty sure that's illegal. But because I guarantee they're also not claiming these tips.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. For tax purposes. So like, yeah, the whole thing is shady as fuck.
I couldn't believe that like, but again, I'm not going to say where the place was, but that is just that's how you do it. Folks know it that way. That's like living wage or the tip method. Both work and both have their pros and cons, but one is not ripping off your guests and your staff.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know like I'll talk to pretty upfront about it.
We're going to start with the start, which is great. So you find out and they go, yeah, if you do tip, they'll, they donate that to Chirri. That's correct. Yeah.
And that's that's how you do it properly. Yeah. That's a nice way to do it. So shout out to our friends at Odd Duck and fuck these guys.
Yeah. I'm not going to tell you. But that was just a little story. I thought it's okay.
And if you're in Ontario and in the kitchen, what a blue area. I've only got one bar left for you to come visit. It's called Sugar Run. It's downtown Kitchener at Sugar Run Bar on Instagram.
It's the best way to find out what's going on there. We have Burlesque. We have live comedy. We have live music.
We have karaoke everything. You can't just open the doors anymore. We got to entertain you. We got a lot of music.
A lot of live music now and Sunday night. The queer karaoke is really taken off. So that's been great. And if you are in need of wine or spirits, then you should email me at kippadablonesisters.ca.kypp.
That email will still be good. That's for production of Lord of the Stilary. We all are looking to buy Canadian spirits these days, support Canada with liquor and then Malabar Winery out of Beamsville and Terwar Wine imports for all your Spanish Portuguese, Argentinian wine. Check, yeah, hit me up and we'll sort you out for that.
We also mentioned our friend Alkamist Ali at Alkamist.allee. That's correct. That's correct. I'm fine.
I know that. Fifteen times a charm. Yeah. She must be so thrilled that she has this one.
Time Kipps gonna get this right. It's A-L-I-E. It's how he's about Ali. But yes, check out her stuff.
She is here. It's consult with Kato consultant. She'll come post a party at her house. She will.
What else will she do for her? She'll do for a bartender for an event so you're having a good springtime. So it's like a game party's weddings, baby showers, anniversaries, perhaps they're on a backyard barbecue. Correct.
Because the summertime's coming up. If you want someone to host your event, she can definitely help you out if you want help with a bar program or perhaps even just a cocktail class. Ali's your girl for that. I would also be remiss if I didn't mention the Allure Distilling Golden Shaker bartender competition that's coming up on June 1st.
So if you're a bartender in Ontario, basically, we had last year that we had people from Concordon, from Toronto, all over the province. So June 1st will be the date for that. It's a sunday for your bartenders. It's a similar cocktail competition to last year.
You can follow Alluredistilling.com to, Alluredistillingcompany.com. If you want to find out what feels on that, they're going to post about it very soon. But I want to get the word out to be a fun event. And our presenting sponsor, you might even say, of the industry podcast is in Biblioth.
Tell us about it in Biblioth. Well, and Biblioth is your one-stop shop app for all your cocktail needs. Whether you want to just look up a cocktail while you're working for a bartender as a bartender, or if you happen to be a cocktail lover working at home, and you want to just figure out the rule of cocktails. That's the up for you to try out.
A big flavor profile wheel, which is super handy. You can actually even share recipes as there is a subscription model with a free version of the app as more features than you can possibly ever use. And it is built by Jean-Marc Dyches, who graciously is helping us with their website, which means he did the website. So, yeah.
And that's the industrypodcast.club.info. The industrypodcast.club is where you can email us to provide support for the show or to be a guest on the show, or you can DM us directly at the industry podcast on Instagram, where our good friends at Canada does all the artwork for us. A big shout out to Zach. He came by on Saturday night for the last night of Babylon.
He also helped us out with a lot of the design work there. So, huge shout out to my buddies at Canada.zak, a double N-H-dot-C-O at zakana.co for all your graphic arts and needs. Well, it's really bad about sisters. What do you have to do with that big emblem inside the head of the corks?
I have an idea for it that I can't disclose at this point. But it's going to go to a good home. That's good. Yeah.
So, I think that that is all the pream that we need to get through. Once again, the presenting sponsor isn't bibliothic, check it out in bibliothic. And I think that's about it. We should just get to our guest, correct?
Yeah, yeah. That was a long intro. It just gets longer every week. If more people want to give us money, then it'll get even longer.
We're down for it. Our guest this week is Esther Dawson, who's right here in Dan's living room, and she has already won guest of the year for bringing champagne, which most people know is the champagne of drinks. That's the way. That's the way.
That's the idea. Thank you. Cheers. Yeah, well, that's nice to talk it up.
We're already. Thanks for joining us, Esther. Thanks for coming over. The person was always fine, especially when the guest brings balloons to the sound.
Yeah, that's a nice and good move. So I get invited parties. Cheers to you. All right.
So, we just don't know anything about you. So, we're just going to get started at the beginning. Where did you grow up? I grew up in Oxbridge, which is a really small town in the other side of Toronto.
I think you've heard of that. There's a lot of people there. A lot to do there. I grew up in Oshawa.
Okay, yeah, there you go. Yeah. I'm going to have to do that. Yeah.
So, left, fast. Oh, yeah. Like right after high school. Yeah.
To go where? So, I went to what university at Heritage College, which is in Cambridge, where I studied music and theology. Yeah. You're a musician.
Surprise, I know. The whole interview was surprised. That's it. There's going to be a lot of other facts coming through.
Full disclosure, Esther said, we usually, this is a little behind the scenes thing. We usually ask our guests to send us a brief bio and to apply a little bit of knowledge about the person before we start recording. Esther did. Grace just sent us that.
But it went to our junk folder and we didn't mean to tell about two minutes before we started recording. So, this is all going to be very authentic. Yeah. Heritage College.
Is that about holiday and drive? Yeah. That's exactly where it is. I cannot believe you know where that is.
Everyone always looks like a three heads when I say that. Well, this is just down the street from there. Oh, no way. Yeah.
So, I went across from Jacob Passver. Okay. So, in those nice early 90s, green, office buildings are terrible. Yeah.
Oh, it passes many days. Oh, they just did an expansion on that place. Yeah, they did. Yeah.
I haven't seen it, but they did. They built it pretty fast. And what instrument did you play? It's a typical music.
Oh, really? You're singing? Oh, amazing. No desire?
No. I don't like singing in front of people. So, it wasn't really... You don't like singing in front of people.
You went to school for a second. I know. I know. It's like, I was a lot of anxiety.
I like stage fright. Really? Yeah. You perform as you have to do.
I was always a mess during them. I'd be like, totally fine during all my practices. I could sing in front of my friends fine and go on stage and it would just be a disaster. Really?
So, what about that? You probably had to do an audition to get in front of you. I sure did. I sure did.
I'm pretty sure I messed that up too. Oh, you got it. Stage friends are not great, but you must have the pipes. I don't get it.
I made it through. I graduated. That's right. So, that was just like a total bundle of anxiety for you the whole fucking time you were in school?
Anytime we had to perform. Yeah. Like, I would spend hours practicing days on days on days, which was totally fine. I remember, like, set up videos and record myself and do all the things you need to do.
But as soon as I'd stand on stage, it was like, yeah. And then you'd be in the service industry where you're always on stage. Yeah, but you'd be in my fake environment, you know. That's not as vulnerable for some reason.
What was that program? Like, three years? Four years. Yeah.
Is there residence that I saw? There is a residence. So I lived on residence for two years, I think, and then it's like student housing for the other two years. So that's crazy.
That's crazy to begin with. And then did you start, like, were you working in the service industry while you were in school? No. So as soon as I graduated, actually I had one of my close friends worked at Langdon, where I am now.
And she told me, so I never worked at like, Tim Hortons in high school. I don't know if that doesn't have his industry, but it's not restaurant, kind of level industry. So I never really worked in anything kind of like that. And so she wanted me to come work at Langdon with her.
And so she got me a job as a hostess. And so I just started there as a hostess and very quickly was like, oh, I'm actually very good at this. I kind of like this. I'm making people happy.
Did you feel like any part of your schooling kind of training for it? Probably. I always tell people that your dinner service or whatever is kind of like a show that you're putting on. You know, and so you're acting because that's not true.
You're putting on a performance for sure. I was here because I was a lot of podcasts and I listened to some podcasts with actors and or even professional wrestlers. And I always just say like it's like there's personas just to turn that version of themselves. Exactly.
The same thing we're doing. I don't think you can like fake that hospitality gene that's inside of you. I think you either have it or you don't to be in it as a career. But yeah, it's definitely a turned up version of yourself.
Yeah. Like performance side of it. Like having to turn yourself on and push whatever else is going on and you're like down to focus on that performance for sure. Yeah.
I mentioned before the previous podcast where I worked out a Kelsey's, that was during the training. The girl did the training. She was going to choose your attitude. Absolutely.
And it's going to turn it and because she pointed out it. And you told the shitty one. Oh, yeah. That's right.
I'm over one. I'm going to sing another birthday song. Oh, yeah. I skipped that stage of hospitality.
Yeah. It is true though. Like that is what we do. And it's funny too.
It also leads to the sort of same. And we've had like people who have been on the show who are actors and working with the service industry at the same time or maybe consecutively or concurrently. And they have often said it's the same thing. It's like when you're done.
Like when you're done your weekend, you're so fucking exhausted. And I always tell them like how to absorb the exhausted physically and emotionally are such different things. Oh, it's a hundred percent. Yeah.
You're tired from like moving around the whole time. Especially if you were busy and you had to hustle. But like more so than you just don't want to talk to anyone. Like it's amazing that you can still even go out for a drink after.
You know? I don't usually. I can't find myself. I think the best thing you do is just get a dog.
You can talk to them if you choose to. So I just got a dog. I'm feeling a dog last week. So he's my new therapist.
Congratulations. What are you doing? He's a toy poodle. He's super cute.
He just turned five months yesterday. Oh my god, good luck. So toy poodle. How big do they get?
He's allegedly supposed to get ten pounds. Sure. Do you live alone? No, I live with my boyfriend.
Okay. So at least you have someone else to help you with taking a dog because... Honestly, I work so much and he's an angel because he didn't even want the dog to start with. And he is mostly taking care of him because he's home more than I am.
What does he do? So he's in that industry so he's a lot more at Spencer's. Oh, okay. I'm more friend for LinkedIn.
All right. Well, he is the same because I have a dog as well. But my second dog was a rescue dog. My first dog I got from Puppy and looking at the puppy is a fuck.
Puppy is so tough. Oh my god. I wouldn't do it again. He's just starting to figure out the body training.
So what am I? You're my friend or the dog. Okay, so you let's get this back on course. Is it a podcast about dogs?
I don't know. Who cares? So you finished college. What point do you actually get your first...
Not to tell more about when you got your host or your job at LinkedIn. And then did you start looking at the rights at LinkedIn? Yeah, so I remember at LinkedIn I became support staff. Like I was the host for the summer and then said, actually I want to keep doing this.
This is kind of a fun gig. So I became support staff, worked that role, became server for a while. And then as I was serving, realized I knew absolutely nothing about wine and felt stupid as I was talking to tables who did know about wine. Because at Langen you like to get that.
So like that one for instance is where we were a wine bar. But it's like so many of the customers didn't know shit about the wine. So you could so many of my guests or my staff could fake it. But like at Langen, you do not fake it.
And I just can't do it. Don't fucking fake it because you're going to run into the guests that does know. And then it's going to be bad. I mean a lot don't know very much for sure but you have enough that you know that.
You can't fake it. You can't fake it. You can fake it a little bit but not that much. Actually for anyone who's listening from out of province to describe Langen Hall in general to our listeners.
Yeah so Langen is a fine dining restaurant. I think we're currently rated fourth or fifth best restaurant in Canada. It's a hotel as well. But yeah, just fine dining restaurant.
The service is exceptional. I won't say it's prestigious but it's not. It's like more, it's not stuffier. I hope that we're making sure that we're more.
It's funny because I was telling you that I stopped in there last week and it's like it still holds up. You can tell it's aged a little bit. For sure. It's like a whole country house.
But it's still beautiful. It's like yeah. That's the time. That still has a helicopter landing pad.
At least I have a helicopter landing pad that gets used a lot. Yeah. That's how we got there. I'll take it for Ryan.
That's nice. I remember DJed Vinnie and Stacy's wedding there. And I was already playing so I showed up where they carried all my equipment in. Like the speakers.
This is something nice. This is okay. We got it. We got it.
Perfect. Thank you very much. Nice level of service. Yeah.
So beautiful space and like very serious. Very nice. But you left there at some point and then you went to work. So I actually I've never left but I have a good history of going down to part time and then going somewhere else and doing multiple things at the same time because I'm a crazy person and like to be ridiculously busy.
I feel like you all are in this industry. Yeah. Yeah. So you were working at Allora Mill as well.
Yeah. Worked at Allora as one of these small days there. Kendra there had some all year right now was one of my best friends. And so she's been like a huge mentor for me in my career and was like awesome working with her and for her figuring things out there.
And then kind of be the transition. I was there for two or three years and then be the transition to go back to like in full time. Actually just as past fall. So I do want to talk to you about the whole Wine program thing because you have you're one of the most of the people I talk to or know frankly go one way or the other.
Either go W set or they go the other song program and like and they're just like okay I'm chosen that one. And there's certainly like three demos done like every course that there's available to a human being to do. Yeah. She's very smart about Wine.
I decided to write it randomly on a bar the other weekend. She's got the best gig now because she's honestly she does. Yeah. She was literally buying auction wines for the conglomerate that she works for now.
So it's like spending she had like a I'm not going to say because it's not like yeah but she had like an insane budget to buy these like super rare auction wines. I'm like this is here. Now like what the hell? I'm like she figured it out.
But she also like I remember going to her apartment and like seeing like just her whole floor would be covered by paperwork and maps and like studying different regions. Like that's what she was doing forever. So you obviously. I did that.
Yeah. So like having done so well let's start by backing up and explaining a little bit the difference between like saying doing like all your certification like what are the differences and why are they different and what would be the what's the advantage of doing all of the different ones. So there are obviously all over the world but even in just an Ontario different bodies of education if that's the way to say it that not necessarily focus on different things but like approach their programs differently. So I'd say like the three most kind of common ones in Ontario at least is like said W said so the Wine and Spirit Education Trust, the Quartermaster Smolle A CMS and then CAB which is the Canadian Association of Professional Smolle A's and that one's taught out of George Brown.
Yeah I say those are the three most kind of popular ones. Like you said a lot of people kind of just go one route you can kind of become certified or qualified through any of them. And are they all like they're totally separate or is there like a total? Okay.
One hundred percent completely separate. And do some of them focus more on like the service side as well. Yeah. So W said for example is very widely recognized all around the world.
You can go literally anywhere and say this is kind of the certification that I have and it's taught the same all over the world. So that's kind of like why I started doing that route. So I have two and three. Yeah.
So but then I got to a point where I wasn't trying to be a smiley. So I was like I learned as much about wines I needed to make a cool wine list for the businesses. Totally. It was so much fucking work.
It's a lot. Yeah it's a lot of studying and it's like yeah but anyway sorry I continued. So that was W said and then how. Yeah and W said more focused on not necessarily the service aspect of it but like what happens in the vineyard what happens in the winery like focusing on what that is and translating that into each region specifically.
The terroir. Exactly. Exactly. The quartermaster smolle.
I would say it's a little bit more service focused. Obviously they care more they care about all of that other stuff too but they are more service oriented and like producer oriented so they're focused more on what the actual wines are versus the process of how they're made kind of. And then caps is does kind of both but it's a one year program and it's just like just a second level or fourth level it's just that level. But you've done all of these.
So I have not done caps. I've done the quartermaster smolle and W said. Okay and so I guess what I did is I was like why did you choose to do both? Yeah so I started doing my W sets because Rob Miller who you know very well was teaching it and he said you can come sit in on a class and say great.
So I came inside and I was like okay I'll sign up for these and Rob's a great teacher. Great guy. That's the best. Yeah and so kind of took those classes with him and then just kind of kept going as far as I wanted so I did level three and then I did a couple of them.
I'm just kind of kept going as far as I wanted so I did level three and at that point level three is kind of in between certified and introductory smolle level of the quartermaster smolle A's. So when you do your W sets you don't actually get like you're not actually a certified smolle A. You are a W set level three wine person. So they don't actually call you a certified smolle A's.
It doesn't sound nearly as cool. But then if you do your diploma your W set diploma like it's way harder than your certified level. Like it's more like advanced smolle A level. Right because that's where I thought crazy.
So like that's I don't have that yet. No but yeah. We'll see. So then you were like okay maybe I'll do this other part and it'll be a certified song.
Exactly. I see. Exactly. And like I said W set and CMS.
So CMS is they have the European branch of it let's say and then the American kind of branch and they focus things differently like they operate a separate bodies as well which is kind of interesting but anywhere you go like CMS is the most common one in North America I'd say. Interesting. So but there and how would you describe like you said like if you went past W set three into like what's the next level up to that. So there's the diploma.
The diploma right. So if you go to diploma as opposed to going through the certified song like you're basically learning the same shit no. So yes and no like you are learning the same stuff but it's like like we said like it's focusing on different areas. Yeah.
So like they highlight different aspects of the same like playing field that makes sense. Yeah. Well and again because we said one's a little bit more focused on service and like yeah because they like proper wine service. Exactly.
You don't learn any of that in W set they don't care because. That's even the master Somali exam versus the master of wine Somali exam. Master of wine is there's blind tastings for both of them but there isn't a service aspect for the master of wine. You're writing a thesis you're writing all this other stuff tasting infinitely more wines but you're focusing more on how you're deducting those tastings versus the quarter match.
It has that same structured blind tasting theory still as well but then you also have that service aspect. Interesting. Yeah. So I mean that's a shit ton of education for someone who's still quite young.
Thanks. It wasn't really got into it. Yeah. Yeah.
And like do you like do you consider that this is something that you found early in life that just became like an absolute passion for you that you're going to continue for the rest of your life now? I think so. I mean I clearly love learning and I think this is a very unique feel that you can't ever really perfect it. You can kind of be just at the tip of the iceberg forever and constantly learning new things, constantly studying everything's changing and evolving too so things are like.
It never stops. It never stops. I did my course so long ago that I feel like I should probably do it all over again because even though I know more about wine than the average bear I just I feel still like when sometimes I sit down like you know you used to do blind tastings now I feel like I can't do a blind disc anymore. But it's just like it's stuff that needs constant practice right?
Like you constantly it's like putting a language where if you're not constantly practicing it and like speaking with other people then you're going to lose it and it's the same with the whole recognizing wine like it's it's there's so many fucking ones. So many and like I said like there's so many new ones popping up and places going out of business you can't get it in Ontario anymore the importers aren't importing it. The amount of influx and change that happens literally every single day is crazy. And it's also the other thing I think about this too is like there's so many like let's talk what like what is Italy have like anywhere from three thousand to six thousand varieties depending on who you talk to right?
For sure one of them. Yeah but so many of them are so fucking similar like you know what I mean like yeah they call just great this and this great this but they're almost identical right so like trying to like even parse out that difference is insane yeah like yeah that's where it really is like you're never like the greatest winers in the world is probably some out of the way there. Well exactly right like doesn't like you can never stop studying you can never stop learning or you just fall behind right yeah I'm not everyone loves that but I love that. It's great for your nerdiness.
Exactly. How does it take to do one of these programs like because it depends obviously I guess they're all different. So all different. W set does I mean W set level one you can do in a day.
Okay. W set level one I would describe as like if you like wine at all you should be able to pass that gross. Okay. Yeah fair it's like what a shard and a what a pin on a war pin on a war grows in France.
You know like a very very very basic. Yeah. And I also tell me if you disagree with this but I also think once you've done level two the amount that you jump in wine knowledge from just doing W set level two is like make you an expert among most men. 100% honestly I truly believe that every single person who works in a like any kind of fine dining restaurant but somewhere that like has any kind of wine focus in the restaurant should have minimum level two.
I agree. Yeah absolutely. If you're working in a place that sells wine seriously. Exactly.
Like if it's just like if you have a red and a white and a pink on the list and I think it's like who cares. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.
Continue the way you were saying. Oh yeah the duration of the progress. Yeah. So level one and literally in a day and then I think level two the programs like six weeks give or take level three I think is you can do like the normal version or condensed version I did it in a condensed version that was I think over two months I think the longer one must be four months and then diploma takes about two years.
Oh yeah. It's a diploma is crazy. That's one of the maps on your floor. That's a piece.
The maps are on your floor and on your walls and you're dreaming them and crying. It's fucking intense like yeah and like exams are not easy like like most people fail them before they pass them. Yeah. Yeah.
Like the LSAT. Yeah. That's crazy and so again for someone who's not even 30 years old yeah that's pretty impressive. Congratulations.
Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm going to do this series and I'll use the full name. Yeah.
So do you think you're going to keep going with some of these courses now? Yeah so I this January I was accepted into the advanced Somali a chorus so you have to take the with the court of master's molly is you have to take the chorus before you can take the exam. So I applied for that you have to take an exam for that pass it and then based on I don't know whatever the criteria is you got accepted for that it only happens once a year. So I was accepted to that but given everything that's kind of going on right now I turned down to my option of going this year.
I know. I know. You can go another year though or so I'm going to apply again next year but you have to like start from scratch you have to reapply everything. Oh good.
Yeah. Is that all is that online or in person or a combination of both? So that one it has to be in person it's only a weekend or like a week it's like five days four or five days or something and it's focusing more on like you meet I don't know how many people accept 200 people maybe every year and the last few years have been in Dallas and then it's a bunch of master's molly is come and they do kind of more of like a workshop I say rather than like they call it a chorus but we'll sit with you and get you to go through blind tastings and practice that with you and give you like an idea what the theory is going to be like and you know what the service is going to be like and kind of like a preparation to do the exam because so many people fail the exam. Oh no.
So they're like well let's put this in to help you out a little bit at least. How would you describe how to properly do a blind tasting? So I'll just start with like the basis which is kind of like it's sort of like I was describing a sort of like you're playing blind detective. Yeah.
Like you are trying to source out based on smell and taste. What the great is and then through the knowledge you've already accumulated through your studies then you can figure out okay where is that great commonly grown. What's that? Where does how does the climate effect where that great growth like for instance like a peanut and a wire from burgundy tastes way different than a peanut and a wire from New Zealand.
Exactly. Just because of temperature and whatever right and so like how would you describe the whole process of like from the time you get like a wine blind tasting and trying to figure out what it is and then getting to the point where you can like maybe even figure out who the winemaker is. Yeah. So when tasting blind people think you're like tasting it and then you're like okay well this tastes like this so it has to be this more often than not you're like so it's called deductive tasting rather than I don't know figuring out what it is like you're going through everything and figuring out what it can't be and then what you're left with at the end that's probably what it's going to be you know so right now we are drinking a red wine because we're not drinking a few more.
We've done folks. So obviously it's not going to be champagne right you know this is a still red wine so that's where you start. So that's where you start you know like that is literally where you start you've just eliminated half the possibilities it can be right great so you're you're already in a certain spot. This is a lighter bodied red wine you can see through it pretty well it's not going to be again and you have the fuller body grapevitals you've narrowed it down again half to that.
Right so you get to the like the first part of it is the easy part because like you're saying you're like okay well it's putting on a board dough it's not a it's not a capsule it's like you know like so now you've already eliminated so many wines right. So many right and rather than being like okay well this what does this smell like what grapevrile could that's possible. You have everything in front of you if you just eliminate those few things okay well now I'm working with this small amount versus this massive list of things that I think. Yeah.
What is weight easier said than done. It's like what does this smell like must be this. Yeah. Don't do that.
But that's what you have to remind us of. We're not doing it that way we're not doing it that way we're eliminating first. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And then the biggest part of it like essentially blind tasting is a test of what your theory knowledge is. So if you're smelling bright red cherries and raspberries well that's not going to give you deep red fruit the way Merlot is going to so that's it's not going to be Merlot it's going to be a great variable that gives you those fruits if it's something that's really earthy and rustic it's probably going to be an older world wine versus something that's super fruity and fresh which is going to be a new world wine you know and as you're kind of working through some of those things it will they're essentially all little mini theory questions that you're working through with a physical aspect in front of you.
Yeah. That's what it was the perfect discussion of what you're doing. Test pass. Another test pass for us.
Yeah. So that's I thought it's interesting but then you watch these like movies like Sommer or whatever and it's and they're like literally identifying it down to the gear and the winemaker like how do you get to a point like that like you must have just tried so many wines. You've tried so many wines also I mean year winemaker is hard. Yeah.
Yeah. I think it's the possible. Kind of a great one. I'm definitely not my master slowly.
I'm a little bit wet. But I mean as you're figuring out year something that's going to be fresh and fruit is going to be younger if you have something that's like those fresh fruit flavors are starting to fall depending on where on that scale that falls I mean the older it is the more that's going to dissipate. That's right. And also like you're also deducing it from an area of the world where the wine is going to taste more like that plus if it's like a younger tasting wine for that region now.
Yeah. You would identify the region first and then think about the year after. Yeah, definitely think that I mean also vintage variation comes into play so if it's a year that's really really hard the wine's going to be a lot bigger and a lot juicier so it's going to fade differently than wine that has a really cold year and it's already kind of acidic and more crisp it's going to fade a little bit differently like those two years. So you kind of got to know your vintage too and how that will play into things.
That's crazy. It's fascinating. But yeah. I'm going to put it through an area there first.
Great question. Then it just opens up which like you can still tell but if you go to different day then that's going to throw you off. Is that the other thing too right? Like I think about like I've done blind tasting where they just pop up and then I'm going to pop the bottle right there and it's like that makes it even more difficult if it hasn't opened up a little bit to me.
It's like it's not even tasting the way it's supposed to be. Yeah the hardest thing for me when I find is when people pull them right out of the fridge and pour it right away. It's too cold and everything's kind of stuck because it's so cold so nothing's like you can't get anything out of it. So I always like my community's like leave it out for the day.
I'm just popping up on the microwave real quick. What is your all-time favorite one? Okay can I tell you something? This is my least favorite question.
Oh is it? Can I be honest? I don't really want to. I joke with my boyfriend all the time about this because people literally ask me every single day what my favorite one is.
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Like how do you think your favorite kid?
I don't know. You don't have a favorite like. Like why did I ever taste it? No I don't mean that.
Like for instance like there are certain wines that are my go-to ones to drink now as opposed to other. Like if I like they're you must have that. No. Not really.
But okay so do you have a better answer for your all-time favorite one you've ever tasted? I have like not necessarily favorite but like most unique coolest member of the world. Yeah sure that's cool. I had some like pretty old Madeira's like 1700s Madeira's and like yeah I've tasted DRC the main Rummy Concrete at times and I thought it was pretty iconic.
1700 Madeira I should still be able to smell it on you. That was one of the coolest ones for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Was that from like I liked it all or something else? It was yeah. Yeah we have big kinds of such an awesome program. People like bring really cool wines in and a lot of people are generous enough to share with us as we get to try something like pretty incredible wines.
Wow that's awesome. That's something else to be able to try something that's cool. That's cool. So that was like pretty incredible.
And when you go to like the help of the wrong crudetasting it's like oh it's the only chance you get to try these fucking wines right? Yeah. Or we're doing like that. Or yeah.
We did honestly like such an incredible aspect of that job is like I really got to interact with wines that so many similarly don't get to see on a daily basis. It's like honestly incredible. But do you have like a when you're like okay so maybe I asked the question wrong but like rather than saying like what is the wine that you like the most but like what is your go-to wine to drink now after all this studying and so again I have like different answers for this. Like I don't have necessarily a go-to.
I mean I kind of do and I kind of don't. Which is kind of what the problem with the question is. Okay. You know so I'm going to probably do my question so we can definitely.
That's a whole other show to fit in. We should have figured that out about two hundred episodes. Yeah there you go. I'm going to workshop your problems.
Don't worry. For myself like I really enjoy like obviously I really like wine so I want to drink more of it. So if I'm going to have a massive bottle of Cabernet I'm going to have one glass of it. If I'm going to drink a bottle of peanut water I'm going to drink a whole bottle.
You know. I tend to also I really like acidity in wine. I really enjoy the crisp light easy drinking bottles of wine because you can crush them pretty easily. That being said if it's the middle of the day in the summer and I buy a pool I'm going to want to drink something very different than if it's a snowstorm outside and I just got cut from work and I'm going to make something awesome for dinner.
So I think maybe what you're saying is your go-to wine is just on a cool young drive before. Honestly yeah. That's a pretty good one. I'm sure I have ones that I can fall back on and know that I like and will say I'm having this so I know this as well with it so I want this.
Yeah. As time goes by and you drink so I'm like you recognize why I really love that one. I would probably think that one again. And also you're probably someone who takes the food side of it seriously with it as well.
So it's like about needing this I'm maybe going to choose to drink this. How much do you think the food pairing and wine is maybe a little overrated? I think if you, so I say this to guests all the time. It was about leaving questions by the way.
It literally is. I think if you're someone who cares and that's important to you it matters a lot. Yeah. Okay.
So I'm like, I'm going to be probably talking about this on the show before. But it's like, just drink whatever the fuck you want to drink. Exactly. If you want to drink Bordeaux with a piece of white fish and that's something that they do in Bordeaux all the time.
Right. So go do it. No one's. I guess all the time say well I am having a white fish but I really only drink Cabernet exactly.
And like, right. Then if you have something that's going to pair perfectly with the fish you're not going to like it. So you're not going to want it. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, pair well and it will take well together but you're not going to like enjoy it.
Right. So I think that is my point about the over-rating of it. It's like I do think that there is a science to it. For a second.
Like the fact that the whole point of the meal is to have a good time experiencing your meal. And if you don't like white wine. Exactly. Then you're not going to enjoy it.
That's all. Yeah. That means that if you do care I think it matters a lot. Right.
Okay. And if I were to put in front of either of you, oh terrible pairing you'd be like I don't want this. Right. Like why would anyone have this?
Yeah. But that's because you know enough about wine and eat enough good food to know how they interact together and appreciate those things. Yeah. The two people that I've always told people when teaching courses on a wine or anything like that is like drink it's your experience.