This week's guest is Josh Quayon, who joins us for an in-person interview. Josh is currently running the cocktail program at Charcoal Steakhouse and Dells Italian Kitchen, which is part of the charcoal group of restaurants located here in Waterloo Region and surrounding areas. In our conversation with Josh, we talk about his current role managing the cocktail programs and the thought process and work involved in creating new beverage offerings, and the often discussed topic of garnishes. We discuss the increase in sales in the non-alcoholic beverage sector.
Josh talks about his experiences in cocktail competitions. We then discuss how Josh got his start in the industry when he enrolled in a bartending course after finishing high school and how it was at that point in time that Josh realized that a career in the industry was for him, as allowed him to explore his creativity. We also cover some of Josh's early experiences working in the industry and how a temp agency placement eventually led to a full-time career, and as always we cover a lot of other topics as well. You can find Josh on Instagram at theartofspiritandmixology, and the way that is spelled out is with a period between each word.
So it'll be at the.art.of.spirit.and.mixology, or check the show notes as always for the links. We want to thank Josh again for coming over and enjoy listening to the show. We'll have another episode of the industry podcast. My name is Kip.
This is Dan. What is going on? Hey man, you know, same stuff. I was always exciting.
Starting to the work week? Yes. And you? Well, it's the first Monday of the month.
So, yeah, it's brutal for small bar owners. I was thinking, I'm always getting people talking to me about, like, oh, my goal is to open a bar. My dream is to open a bar. We've had to talk to several people on the show who have said the same thing, and I'm just like, just kind of be with advice.
Hit me up and just ask me about the first Monday of every month and then tell me if you still want to open a bar. Yeah, it's a stressful fucking day. Yeah, trying to figure out if you've got enough money to make all of the money over the weekend to make for all the money that's about to come up your account. But, you know, tomorrow will be Tuesday and then we just move on.
Yeah, good point. Yeah, that's about all I got going on. Yeah, if you're in town in the kitchen and want to do an area or a surrounding area of visiting, you should come check out my bar, that Sugar Run in Downtown Kitchener, at Sugar Run Bar on Instagram to figure out everything that's going on there. And if you're interested in Wine and Spirits, you can email me at kipsonthesatgmail.com kyppsasayuendrs at gmail.com for wine from Malabar Winery in Beamsville, wine from Terwar in Ports, that's a lot of Portuguese, Spanish, Argentinian, that's some French stuff, all good stuff there.
And then of course, all the great spirits from all the Lord's Distillery. So if you're looking for any of that for your home or for your business, shoot me an email. What else? We should talk about our friend James Prangos who is back in business now that Babylon is closed, Harper's Deli has found a new location.
It's on Davenport Road in Waterloo, so if you are looking for the best subs in town, check out our buddy, James Prangos, Harper's Deli. Yeah, local land right by that is the Lee Valley that's right there, and he's right beside the F-45 fitness. Right, so if you're interested in working out, you want to eat a 12-foot sub? He's your guy for that.
That's correct. Great stuff. Harper's Deli, I'll put a link to that in the show notes. Great.
What else? We should mention our friend Alchemists.ali at alchemists.alie on Instagram. She is your go-to source for cocktail training classes in home functions. If you want someone to host your bridal shower birthday party wedding summer barbecue, or any event, alleys are girl, you can reach her at alchemists.ali.
And on Instagram, I'll put a link to that in the show notes as well as always. Everything we talk about actually will be able to find the show notes. It's great. If you are looking to help us out with everything we're doing here on the show, if you like what you listen to every week, then the best thing you can do to support us is subscribe, rate, review.
That helps out tremendously. Tell a friend, as Dan always likes to say. Tell a friend, that's the easiest thing to do. Spread the word.
It takes about a minute. Say, Matt, check out this podcast. Send them a link. We're available on all your major podcast platforms.
Apple, Spotify, iHeartHeartRadio. Yeah, so that's all. Everyone's go-to so I'll say that. Yeah, if you're listening to us on iHeartRadio, show that.
Yeah, it might be two of you. Yeah, if you're interested in being a guest on the show or to provide support for the show, you can email us directly in voteinusrepodcast.club, or you can DM us at the industry podcast on Instagram, where you will find the tremendous artwork from our good friends, at zakana.co for all your graphic arts needs. And yes, the presenting sponsor of the presenting sponsor- I'll try that. Nope, not yet.
The presenting sponsor of the industry podcast is of course our good friends at Inbibleia. I'll talk about Inbibleia now. Sure, Inbibleia is a cocktail app for bartenders, restaurants, and drink nerds. Built by a bartender with more than a decade of experience behind the bar, are fairly researched historical variations of classics, included with extensive notes on history and methods.
Now, in this latest version that came out of this share, this version introduces professional profiles featuring showcased recipes, flavor profiles for all recipes and ingredients, search by flavor, list creation, and curation, feature requests, and most importantly, the recipe builder. Our unique and comprehensive interface for creating recipe cards for drinks. The builder features hundreds of icon options for methods, garnishes, and glasses. The builder also features a constantly growing selection of ingredients, which can be selected using all popular forms of measurements, including more nuanced cases, specific cocktails, notably, float, rinse, mist, dash, and smoke.
Ingridient info cards now also feature suggested substitutes based on flavor profiles. This database of flavor profiles is the first of its kind, enabling search by flavor and a custom recommendation algorithm. And John Rijekdikus, who's behind the Inbibleia platform and our website, is very quick to respond to any questions you ever have about the app or any changes you want to see. So, definitely a big thank you to John Rijdikus and Inbibleia platform.
It's a tremendous tool to be honest with you. If you're a bartender, it's way easier than trying to Google a cocktail. If you remember something in the weeds, just call up your Inbibleia app. Or let's say you're inspiring or present-day alcoholic and you just would prefer to drink fancier rather than just chugging straight out of the vodka bottle.
Why not class up your alcoholism with making some fresh cocktails provided by the great menu at Inbibleia? Good point. Okay. Well, that's about all I got to say.
What about you? I'm going to punch some pretty good OK shows over. We have a guest. We did have a guest.
John Squaylars joining us today. How are you, Josh? Fantastic. Thanks for coming in.
Josh is in person. We like to cheers. Cheers. What is this?
A Mascala? A maras? Mm-hmm. Repicato is delicious.
Yeah. So, yeah. Josh, thanks for coming by. Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. So, we got to know each other sort of recently when, because Josh is the beverage manager at Charcoal Complex. There's a for the whole complex.
Yeah, yeah. For the whole complex. So, we should just say for those of us that you're not in the city, anyone who lives in in the water, who knows Charcoal Complex, but if you don't, it's basically three restaurants in one building, which is why you call it the complex. So, you have martinis, del d'aldantes, and then charcoal stickers.
That's right. Yeah. The main offices are kind of located somewhere in the vicinity. I know they're kind of somewhere down the street in a building.
So, not exactly the same building. We do have some offices kicking around in there, but yeah, it's mostly restaurant. Yeah, it's time I go in the any of the charcoal restaurants. There's always like these, like my wife actually works in one now, and it's like, there's clearly some passageway that goes for miles where all these offices, like any time I'm in the power for instance, I'm sitting at the bar and then someone peers off into that area where the offices and they just keep going.
It's like, how far back do those things go? Yeah, it gets kind of amazing there. Usually when we bring people on board and we kind of give them the tour and they're, you know, you can tell they're a little overwhelmed with where everything is and how big the place is and like all the little passageways through the service areas. But yeah, it is funny because my business card says complex mixologist, which is referring to the entire building.
Yeah. But most people's impression is that the complex part has something to do with the type of mix That's true. Yeah. When you read that way, I guess that's true.
Yeah. You're the complex mixologist. Yeah. I mean, it's not like just like run the copa.
Yeah. Exactly. What's the capacity like of that location with the Delta days and charcoal and right? Yeah.
There's a, it's quite a big of a big capacity. I would say like. Do they get to treat them separately? Like like do you have one liquor license for the whole building or is it three liquor laces?
No, it's one. Yeah. It's one. So basically.
There's only a couple hundred in there. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Downstairs is kind of like, I don't know, around a little bit over here 200, almost 300 seats, I believe upstairs as well, two, three hundred. And then with the patio even more now, right?
Yeah. Yeah. In the whole swing or sort of every other day. Yeah.
Depends. It's kind of a really weird spring, but that's a lot. So when you're a complex mixologist, so does that mean that you're responsible for menu development for all three spots? Yes.
Yeah. I hesitate it there because the top floor, the bar menu is the same. Oh, okay. Right.
Yeah. Because I take the plate the same. Yeah. And the food menu is the same for both?
Mm-hmm. It's just what really separates it is kind of like the vibe and ambiance. Yeah. So like if you're walking in through the front doors, the left side of the restaurant is like the steakhouse.
And so you have this really like kind of a rustic steakhouse vibe where you know, you got like the really comfortable leather chairs and you know, the dim lighting and it's very more of an intimate ambiance. And so we have a lot of business people coming in and kind of facilitating that side of the restaurant for their business meetings or whatever, same with a lot of special occasions happen on that side as well because it's just a little bit more intimate, a little bit more like up scale fancy. And then we have the martinis side which is more of a cocktail lounge that attaches into the patio. So that's more of apps and cocktails and you know, little parties that happen and other different types of special occasion.
But what's really separating the two sides is the vibe. So and but then you also do the drinks for del tante which is in the basement. Yes. And that's more like what we just got is like an Italian style restaurant.
Is the vibe there? Yeah, absolutely. So that's more of a Italian restaurant. So they're making fresh pastas every day.
They have a pizza and they make their own dough. So it's a little bit more family oriented. So the price range is a little bit different. It's obviously a little bit more easier on the wallet, right?
Right. You know, bring your whole family there and have a really good time. Everything value for what you get. Like portions are gigantic.
Right. So you'll never leave hungry there. One thing I will say about both restaurants is that our gluten free menus as well as our like plant based menus are really extensive and inclusive. Yeah.
So I don't even need and I got to say that the one thing that charcoal the charcoal, all of the charcoal restaurants, not just charcoal complex, but if you add in like anything charcoal really power, well craft, beer town, they have corn in the market on plant based menu. Like they were smart to do it too because like people who don't eat meat, no, you can get like a much better class of vegetarian, especially if you don't like the fake meat. Like you guys are really the only people doing it at a decent level, you know? Yeah, with a lot of options.
Yeah. It makes a huge difference because most places like, hey, here's your one option. Yes. And then two is the apopter.
So our executive chef, he's excellent at sourcing stuff and he just knows who to go to, where to get really good quality things. And so I feel like he's really spearheaded that direction with the menu where it's like, you know, he's really given us the opportunity to have such an extensive menu and on that direction, right? Like plant based and gluten friendly options and all of that. Within the past couple of years, they've noticed that the non-alcoholic market is just booming right now.
And a couple of years ago when I first started, I was like, hey, we need to really beef up the non-alcoholic options on our menu. And they're like, okay, and so I got the opportunity to kind of, you know, start expanding that. My original idea was just a whole separate menu. It's like, here's seven, eight cocktails, non-alcoholic, right?
Elevated and really push it. But it took a little bit of time for that to gain a little bit of traction. But the non-alcoholic cocktails that I did put on the menu just blew up. And they just started really selling this upcoming summer menu flip.
I'm actually doing a really extensive overhaul of our non-alcoholic selection. So that as well is going to be another extensive option for our group. I think it's smart because, like I said, for a myriad of different reasons now, there are people who go out and don't want to drink, whether they just don't drink at all or they're certainly the younger generation drinks less than my generation. Everyone makes mistakes.
But then, like, maybe you're pregnant. Maybe you're driving, maybe there's a million reasons why people, maybe it's just you have to go back to work. There's a million reasons why people are, but they're tired of just getting water or, like, you want for a nice meal. Or juice.
You want for a nice meal, you want to get the experience of going up for a nice meal. And that is often, like the beverage portion of that is an underrated part of the fine dining or nice meal experience, right? So having, and now people are even getting into non-alcoholic beer is being made at a much higher level. And even, well, non-alcoholic wine, they got a lot of work to do.
That's absolutely 100% true. Because during our whole overhaul of all of this non-alcoholic menu stuff, our Somolier also was kind of like, yeah, let's expand our non-alcoholic selections, right? And so she got like tons of samples from tons of different places. And she was like, no, this is not happening.
So it takes too much like, well, just grape juice. Yeah. It's just fucking really bad. I don't even know what they're trying to do.
Like, we had a couple. We had one from, I can't even remember what the, the agency that was repping it. I can't remember what I knew the rep and I trusted her. So she gave us like, it was one, it was like a Spanish non-alcoholic red and it was like passable.
And because this was a bad one, it was a wine bar we feel like we need. And a sparkling that was passable. But that was the only, like, I remember this one company came and they pitched us all of their wines and they had like probably 10, right? Which is a lot for a non-alcoholic brand.
And 70% of these wines tasted like tomato juice. Yeah. What are we doing? Yeah.
So our Somolier, she's incredible. Like she's really, really good. Just to get you a listening, like I would like to give a big shout out to Robbie as well. Awesome.
And we're trying to get her and Mike, her husband on the show at the same time. I'm just waiting for her to get back to me. So if you're listening, Robbie, now you know you got to get back to me. Yeah, I'll let her know too.
Yeah. You know, right? But yeah, we talked about it briefly because I did a tasting with her. I talked about a woman who really knows her shit.
As does her husband, who is the song at Wildcraft, which is ironic. But they, both incredible, incredibly nice people and she really knows her shit. So when you tell me that she would bring in, not now I'll call her and I'll go back to that shit. I'm like, yeah, I'll be like, oh, she hated it.
She was like, absolutely not. I would rather not have this as an option. Yeah, because I do think it makes a difference, right? Like you're pushing this shit.
Like you have set a certain standard at your restaurant and now you're going to push stuff that like, you're going to push it just because it's non-alcoholic, even though it tastes like shit. Like that's not living up to the standard that you've set. Yeah. Like they need to find non-alcoholic wine that brings itself up to the level that people expect when they go to a nice restaurant.
Yes, that's right. Yeah. And it's funny that you do mention Robbie and her husband because he was actually there for the wine taste for that non-alcoholic wine tasting. And well, it was kind of like, you know, like a joint one?
Yeah, I was kind of a joint one because getting two birds stoned at once. Because he's doing the program at Wildcraft. And so he's like, all right, let's bring all these wines and I'll try them and you try them and we'll pick the good ones. And they were both absolutely not.
But that day, as they were doing their non-alcoholic tasting of the wine, I was actually at the bar making the non-alcoholic cocktail menu, right? And so a lot of that stuff we had ordered in came in like that day. And so a lot of the non-alcoholic cocktails that I was kind of just pushing out and being like, hey, what do you think of this for the menu, right? I was kind of winging on the spot because that was the first time I was trying them.
Right. Right. And so Robbie's husband, he's kind of, well, at that time kind of overseeing the cocktail program at Wildcraft as well. And he's had quite a bit of experience with the whole cocktail developing and stuff there.
So he's done that as well in his career. And so at the time came where I started feeding him these non-alcoholic cocktails that I was kind of just throwing out. And he was giving me some pointers. He's like, OK, yeah, this one could use a little more this or a little more that.
And he was very much like, hey, I hope you don't feel a certain way about me giving you some input on your cocktails. And I don't want to step on your toes. And I was like, no, I actually really appreciate your feedback right now because most of these drinks that I'm giving you right now are the first time I've ever made them. Right.
And when you agree that I mix all of this, how it feels about that turn, that is what you are. Yeah. Most people I know who are really good at that and you're really good at it are very open to feedback as long as the person who's giving the feedback knows what the fuck they're talking about. Yeah.
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm not looking for feedback from fucking Barry from Windsor who's sitting on your bar that night.
Yeah. Like, oh, you know what? This is a question of course. Yeah.
Well, it's not salty enough. Like, you know, like, great. Thanks for the feedback. But if someone like Michael, you know, has an excellent palate, has trained his palate.
That's what he's done for his career, is trained his palate. Absolutely. Like, yeah, you want feedback from someone like that. Oh, yeah.
Thank you so much for telling me this stuff, right? And, but when I told him like, hey, a lot of this non-alcoholic stuff I got today and I'm trying it for the first time, he was like, oh shit. Like, okay, never mind. You're actually doing really good.
And I'm like, yeah, that was my first wing at it. So I'm taking your feedback and then I'm, you know, gonna dial that in and produce something better. Yeah. But the quick question about non-alcoholic drinks, how important is the garnish on that?
Because is it more important than an alcoholic drink? Because of the appearance, obviously, it's non-boozy or is that just like not, not a factor so much? I think, I think it, it depends, right? It seems as a cocktail, right?
When some mixologists or bartenders or, you know, whatever, when they're making a cocktail, how much does the garnish actually contribute to the cocktail is a big part of it, right? And so there's a lot of, you know, a lot of bartenders are like, you know what, if it's not adding anything to the cocktail, leave it out. So that is the, I'm glad you brought this up, Dan. The first time I've ever said that in the history of the show.
But no, the, because we talked about this several times on the show and like I think I maybe have gotten a rep as the guy who's anti-garness, I'm not. I just think, I, like what you just said is the point, what is it adding to the cocktail and for what reason? Like I love a beautiful garnish if it's also adding some sort of essence to the cocktail at the same time. That is like when you fucking nailed it, right?
But like making an elaborate garnish that maybe, and I always have to speak as a bar owner, like that adds a lot to prep time and you're shopping list and all the stuff that matters for the dollar and cents side of it, that, like, just to make it look a little bit prettier. I'm here, and I'm not, like, for me, I just want to drink the taste good. Now I know other people are different than like a lot of people are mesmerized by, like, the level of attraction, like attractiveness of the cocktail. And that's fine too.
I just, like, I struggle with this all the time. The garnish thing is like my Achilles heel. Like I can't get over, like, what is it doing to add the drink? But I do think that if you can make a beautiful garnish that also adds to the cocktail in some way, that's when you nail it.
Yeah. And I agree. I will admit that my garnish game is kind of not where it should be in terms of, yeah, like that's one of my things where I'm like, what is this adding to the cocktail? If it's not, you know, elevating it, if it, you know, if I'm not getting an extra sensory thing, aside from visual, right, like, I want an olfactory component, right?
Or, you know, that's something that adds a little bit to the palette, right? Sure. The Caesar cocktail. That's the one for a garnish.
Yeah. The Caesar, yeah, that's where it's more of a... It's totally different. Like, you're going to eat the garnish.
It's more of a meal than it is a cocktail. Right. If you soak up a hangover. That's the original question.
I think that, like, it's kind of, they're equally important whether it has booze or not, right? Like, it doesn't make sense in the cocktail? In the cocktail? Yeah.
Well, it makes sense whether you have booze or not, right? Like, that's kind of what you're saying, right? Right. Yeah.
And I think at the end of the day, we are living in a virtual world where social media plays such a large part in our lives. Right. Where it's like, you know, if this cocktail, like, if you don't want to post it on your social media, if you don't want to, like, make people aware that you're having this extravagant-looking thing and then people being like, what are you drinking, right? Or whatever, right?
And you, and you know, comes down to if a server is walking by with a tray of cocktails and tables that are on the way aren't like, hey, what was that cocktail that's sitting on that tray? I want to know what that is. I want to order that. That also plays such a big part in the cocktail itself, right?
Well, and you're right too that like, the, the omnipotence of social media right now is that like, this is how we advertise our bars. That was almost the only way to advertise your bar anymore. Like, it's not like we're taking out an ad on the fucking radio anymore. Right.
So like, reading magazines or so. Yeah. And as a result, you almost need to, like, the look of the cocktails almost as important as whether it tastes good anymore, which I struggle with, but I also understand that's the world we live in now. Yeah.
That's right. And yeah, I agree. Like, that is something I struggle with because I'm like, you know what, if it's not adding extra sensory things to your cocktail experience, then maybe you know, you don't need it. Yeah.
And you kind of see it on my, on my Instagram page or where, you know, the, because I post cocktails there and I'm just in my kitchen at home making cocktails. You know, a lot of the time the garnishes, you know, the old school, cherry on a skewer, like, you know, appeal. And sometimes I don't even leave it in the cocktail. It's throw it over my shoulder.
It's like, you know, that's just oil. Right. And so at home, my cocktails are like very under garnished. Right.
And, and I kind of like to keep it a little bit simple, unless, you know, there's a purpose behind it, then I'll go a little extra mile to really achieve what I am looking for in terms of a sensory experience. But aside from that, I keep it pretty basic and simple. So like, this is a good time to bring this up, I think. Your Instagram, so people could follow it because I love following your feeds with making drinks.
Wait, it is what? Thank you so much. Yeah. It's the art of spirit and mixology.
Right. And spelled out the whole way. Yeah. spelled out the whole way, period in between every word, like the most annoying scandal.
Well, yeah, the good news now is you get prompted. So just start the process and you'll find out. But, and I'll put it to that in the show notes and everything else. But one thing I did when I first started talking to you was like, I was like, Oh, yeah, I saw your video, blah, blah.
And I was like, what bar is that you're doing? And you're like, Oh, that's my home bar. Like your home back bar is impressive. So that's a lot of collecting of booze over the years.
Thank you. Yeah. I'm known to be three weeks. Yeah, it took a little bit.
It's hard when you're drinking all of it all the time. Yeah. And a lot of people ask me that too. They're like, how do you keep so much booze?
Like how do you not drink all of it or whatever? And I'm like, well, first off, don't have a social life or friends. Right. You know, not friends, nobody's drinking your booze.
Yeah. It's all like kind of really weird stuff, right? Right. It's all like, like, cassisse.
Like, odd ingredients that are for very specific. You're drinking on its own. No, you're not drinking on its own, right? So that's the other part of it, right?
It's like I'm not going to kill a bottle of apricot liqueur over the weekend. Right. Well, sometimes you make a cocktail that's a banger and you're like, okay, I'm making this all week. And then you'll run through your weird ingredients.
But most of the time, it's like, yeah, nobody's, you know, shooting the, well, that's like gin. Yeah, yeah, the slow gin or, you know, it's gente and liqueur or whatever. It's like, or whatever the fuck, right? Yeah.
Mainly because it's way too expensive in a commodity. Yeah. And who knows when you're going to find it again? Well, the shirt truces off limits.
I only got probably half an ounce of that left. So it's so crazy. It's like mix all over the world holding onto this, like the last two ounces of their shirt truces, like a little baby. It's like, don't let it out into the world.
Yeah, I know. I know. It's funny that you say that there was actually a cocktail competition that I did last, like just this past winter. And it was a speed comp.
But I did not do very well in reading the rules. And so I missed the, this is a speed comp section of the review rules. And all I read is additional ingredients is an option. Yeah.
And so all I read was additional ingredients. So I'm like, fuck yeah, I'm going to make super cool stuff. And there was, one of the challenges was an espresso martini. And so I like fat washed some chartreuse with cacao butter for an espresso martini.
And so obviously I was the slowest one in the entire speed comp because I brought 10 extra ingredients. Yeah. I'm still closely behind too. That's impressive.
I got second place. Oh, wow. Yeah. We're talking about that before we start recording though.
It's a prize name. Yeah, always. But I guess I, at least I set the bar. But I was the slowest one with the most ingredients.
But that espresso martini that I pumped out. It was funny because it was like out of dive bar. So they had no glassware. And so the glassware that they had for the comp, I think.
Of course, like, plastic cups? That's what I was using outside of the glassware that was provided. And I think because they literally bought that glassware for that comp. And so I'm making my espresso martini with 10 extra ingredients.
And I go to pour it out into the martini glass. And obviously I have the jitters because it's like a speed comp. And a lot of eyes on you at the moment. And my shaker chin just smashes the martini glass.
And so I'm like, oh, that's not good. And so I'm looking around and all I see is plastic solo cups. So I'm like, OK, it's like just dump the rest of it. And I was like, here you go.
And I actually won that round. That's awesome. Because the judges were like, this is the best espresso martini I've ever had. Oh, that's great.
And it fucked me up. It sounds delicious. Like just describing what you did. And then I was like, I don't know.
I think in that situation if someone's watching you go to work there and they know the limitations you're working with, the fact that you just poured into a solo cup. Awesome. And the other thing is there wasn't ever a time where I could talk about my cocktail. Oh, so they had no idea what was in it.
Oh, right. So they just got a espresso martini solo cup and they taste it. And they're like, this one tastes the best out of the three. So they're just.
I think that's actually better because it's like if you had like so much of it is like fucking mixologist masturbation where it's like, oh, this is what I did. I did all these steps and that can't help but sleep into the judges minds. There's like, oh, he did this, this and this. And therefore, this one probably should be better.
But like they didn't even know what you did. So they're just that's just like literal sensory judging. You know what I mean? Like, no, that one just fucking smells and tastes the best.
Yeah. And that's essentially why I got second place was because even though I finished last time wise for every single cocktail, they were like every single cocktail that you presented tasted what it was supposed to be like. Like your, you know, your Tom Collins tasted like a Tom Collins, your espresso martini tasted like an espresso martini, right? And your balance was on point, which in terms of like balance for the other competitors right, left left left.
Yeah, especially in the speed competition too. I was like, that's tough. But yeah, I don't know. The speed competitions, they are what they are, but like it's a fun, it's a fun night out.
But this is not bartending. Yeah. And it has its own art, right? Like it's its own category because you can really dial in speed and kind of really, you know, figure out how to be insanely efficient and accurate and right.
And so that's a whole different ballpark. You know what? But the only purpose of the speed part of bartending is when you're like legitimately in the fucking weeds at a high volume bar. So you know what the speed bartending competition should be?
Pop and bottles, crack and cans and making rail drinks. How fast can you do that? That's the speed competition. Exactly.
And shots. Yeah, good shots. Yeah, that's the speed competition. Okay, I'm going to switch focus for a second because we just started talking.
This has been great. But how did you get into bartending? Well, they talked about the start of your career. All right.
So I guess originally how it started was we were in high school and a friend of mine was like, Hey, I'm going to take a bartending course at Conestoga College next year. You should do it with me. And I was like, okay, I'll do it. But like in high school, I was such a flake and had a lot of stuff going on.
And so she went to do it and she got a couple of jobs at some surrounding clubs. And I think... Is this what you're going to want to look? Yeah.
Yeah. So she got a job at the flying dog for a while. And so she was bartending there after she went to school. What year I worked there for a while.
Yeah. Yeah. I was living in 2011. I was going to buy that.
I got caught. I don't know. I'm 32. Oh, I thought you were younger than that.
Like the fact that even you know, flying dog era, that's a long time ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Right. So she did it. She got, you know, she got the job. She started bartending and I was like, fuck, that's so cool.
And like, I didn't do it. I was like, I should have done it with her. And so the following year, I was like, you know what, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do what I said I would and go and bartend.
On the other hand, my parents are like, what do you want to do with your life? Go to school, you know, get your life together and start your career. Right. And so I'm like, yeah, but all of my friends, they're going to university and right, they're doing all this stuff.
You know, they're paying, they're paying a lot for school and then they're dropping out. They're not doing what they went to school for. I'm like, do I really want to be like $10,000 in debt, you know, for a career that I actually don't like? Where were you when I was going to university?
Right. And so that was my mentality was like, you know what, I don't want to do something like that and not actually go anywhere and spend money unnecessarily. So I'm like, okay, so I opened up the, you know, the programs that they had running and lo and behold, bartending was the cheapest program they had for the shortest amount of time. So I'm like, you know what, like, you know, this will shut my parents up, but also I'm doing something I said I would.
And I'm like, so you're going to school so that now you can tell your parents you went to school? Yes. But you're doing what you always wanted to do anyways. Yeah.
Right. And so I'm like, I can't lose in this, right? Yeah. And so, you know, first couple weeks of school, like I got so hyped about bartending and I'm like, fuck it, this is actually what I want to do with my life.
So you realize that early? Yeah. It's funny, I probably asked almost every guest on the show, like when did you, who's bar times we obviously have like chefs and influencers and everything. But like, but for like people who dedicated their life to bartending, I've almost probably asked every single one of them, what was the moment that you realized this is, this is like going to be my career and not just something I do on the side.
But you knew before you even really started doing the job. Yes. That's crazy. Yeah.
Yeah. I guess it was written in the start somewhere or something. Yeah. But yeah, literally like the first week I went to school, I was like, you know what, I'm going to do this, I'm going to jump with two feet in.
What was it that you, that hit you, that you liked about it, that you realized is like, like, do you remember like the situation where you're like, oh, this is like, was it like the making recipes or like the physical activity? Do you remember like a specific thing? I think it was the creativity, right? Because growing up in like and going through high school and everything, all of the career choices I thought I was going to make were all some kind of art, right?
Yeah. When I was really young and writing grade like six and seven, I was like drawing a lot and I was like, okay, I'm going to be like, you know, a comic book artist. I love comic books and I love superheroes and all that. And so that's what I'm going to do.
I'm just going to draw superheroes for the rest of my life. And then going into high school, I'm like, all right, that's kind of, you know, a little bit far-fetched. So let's think about other options. And then I was like, what high school were you at?
It used to be called Sir Johnny McDonald. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think I watched some of that stuff.
That's like what Laurel would. Laurel would heights or something like that. What just before we got off this topic, what was your favorite superhero when you were going up? Oh, thousand percent Spider-Man.
Yeah. Yeah. Spider-Man. I was just like creatively making up new superheroes to draw.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like one of my best friends, he was also super into art and we were like, yeah, we're trying comic books together. Oh, cool.
Yeah. His art style was super different than mine. And would you make the stories up as well? Oh, yeah.
So what was the superhero's name, Josh? Yeah. No, I didn't exactly love myself that much. It's kind of making me do it down.
Superjade. Yeah. What was, I want to keep going on this, but I'm just like, I love stuff like this and we're trying to get to know you. So like, what was your favorite superhero that you developed?
And I developed? It was probably like the more edgy or gothic anti-hero type characters because at the time I had a family friend that donated his entire like, spawn collection of comic books. And which was insane. Like he had an artist, Tugget Farley.
Yeah. And he's one of my favorite comic book artists of all time. So yeah, Tugget Farley, he was the guy who eventually took over some of those Marvel stuff and he started trying everybody with like 4,000 more muscles around the human body. Yes.
And as a maximalist, I like, I love that. And that's what really inspired me. And I'm like, that's why Spider-Man was one of my favorites. Like, the way he was drawn, it's so quirky and so like, right?
And he wasn't like super buff, like he was like lean. And so he was such an interesting visual character, right? Well, also one of the better backstories of a comic book character. Yeah, where it's like kind of like this nerdy, losery kid that is now has all of this power thrust of volume and right?
It's probably what appealed to so many people about that because like a lot of people who read comic books are probably nerdy, right? Like it's just like, so it's like appeals to us. I hate to break a deal. But yeah, so it's kind of like, it's not really comic books when I was growing up too.
And like, the one thing I never said about Superman is like, where does this go? He's the best at everything. Yeah. Like, you know, it's super impervious.
He's like one kind of. He said, well, one, so every, at the end of every story, I ended up with somebody going and getting kryptonite. Yeah, exactly. That's the one thing.
He might get a bad haircut or something like that. He's got super hair. He's got super hair. Yeah, he's got the super dog too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got the super dog. Anyway, this is a great thing about doing the in-person shows. I'm glad of you, of course.
However, we do want to get back into. So at this point, you're like, okay, I love you. You grew up as a creatively minded person. Yes.
And this is, you found something, like sort of this, this joining of the fact that you wanted, your parents wanted to get you, you wanted you to have some sort of education. You found the creative field to do it in. Worked that together. And then you got immediately into the creativity behind bartending and mixology before you even really got a bar job.
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And it never really stopped at school. Right?
So it was just the thing that got me excited about it and that really drove me to take it on as a career and a direction in my life. And so I have school to kind of thank for that. But then I would say now, in retrospect, most of the learning I've ever done is outside of school because I only went, it was like the shortest course. Sure.
And I only teach you this so much. Yeah. And they really crammed as much as they could into that semester. And the real thing it doesn't teach you is how to run a bar.
Yeah. And there's a course called Bar Calculations where it's like, well, it's that until, well, you know, spreadsheets. But that's not... I'm talking about when you're behind the wood in the weeds.
Yes. Yeah. Like, there's nothing they can do to teach you that. No.
That's experienced based only. Yes. And so part of the program was getting a volunteer position at a bar and putting some hours in. And luckily they kind of had a deal going with the Cambridge mill.
Oh, nice. That's a good split there. Yeah. And so that was my first...
You're actually making real cocktails there. Oh, yeah. And it's busy, but you're not probably getting so overwhelmed behind the bar at all. It's like, you're not working at a club where it's just like speed only matters.
Yeah. It's like, here's your running coke next, right? It was... Yeah, I was doing their like, catering stuff.
So like, they're wedding, you know, they're wedding events and stuff like that. So there was a little bit of an itinerary and a little bit of downtime here there. And right. And just kind of showing you the ins and outs.
But I remember my classmate. He was with me on that shift. And literally the first thing we ever did in our career is break glass into the ice well. Oh, okay.
That's a very first... It's like, it's like... It's like, you're not doing your business. Yeah.
It's literally nothing worse. And like for weddings, it's so our itinerary base where it's like... Sure, this happens at this time. This is called to allow her.
You have an hour to drink all of the booze you can possibly drink before you sit down for dinner and then... And then maybe the bar is closed during the fucking speeches. Right. So second we opened, we smashed glass into the ice well and we were like, all right, this is, you know, worst case scenario, right?
And so we, you know, melted the eye, you know, we burned the well and got back on track. And but I was like, okay, yeah. Well, at least we started the shift on hard mode. Yeah, it's kind of really...
It's going to look easier from there. Yeah, exactly. And then from there, you know, I had a really great time working there and really experiencing, you know, that service, that bar service. And yeah, it was kind of like, you know, speed was of the essence, right?
Because it's like everyone's up for their drinks. And then, right, so that was an incredible work experience. Unfortunately, that Cambridge Mill is in Cambridge. I live in Kitchener.
And so it was too much of a commune for me to actually work there full time. So although I did my hours there, when that position was done, I was like, okay, I have to look for work in KW. And that's when it got really difficult. Because on paper, nobody really seemed to care too much that I had an education in bartending.
Right. Well, I should be experiencing it. I'll be perfectly honest with you. Like, when people come and ask me for drugs and all the places that I've owned, it's like, I give zero shits about that.
And I think that I'm going to, like, I can probably train you better than something you learned in school, right? But you didn't know that going into like, you hadn't had, you haven't had a job yet, right? And a lot of people don't. And I'm not saying that there's not value to the schooling that you get.
There 100% is. But the, and maybe this will change over time. Like I'm an older dude. So like everything, like, keeps growing, right?
But like the older bar owners and bar managers are like, education, don't care. Where did you work? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, which is like, oh, you worked at the Cambridge mill for 24 hours.
So, um, so that was instantly an obstacle, right? And so yeah, it's, so I just started freelancing, right? I was like, all right, if you're not going to hire me, I'm going to work for enough friends up until the point where I can go up to an employer and be like, hey, I've bartended this amount, right? And even if it's not like, oh, I, it's good.
I'm glad that that's changing too. Cause normally you'd be like, oh, well, what are these holes in your resume? But now it's just like, oh, I worked here, I worked here, I worked here. And I, like, even if it's not for a long period of time, you worked in those spots.
So you learned some shit. You've been behind the wood, you've dealt with people know you can deal with speed and efficiency and people and doing it at a high level of cocktail. Right? Right.
And so what I did is I freelanced for a couple of years, whatever I could, you know, all my buddies are like, hey, I'm throwing a party at my place. Come and bartend for that. And I was like, yeah, cool. They're like, yeah, well, you know, we'll pay you a hundred bucks for the night.