E259 Vanessa Gouachi

On this next episode of the podcast, Vanessa Guacini joins us for an in-person interview. Vanessa is currently the beverage manager for the charcoal legacy group Complex in Kitchener that contains the charcoal steakhouse, Thel's Italian Kitchen, and Martini's bar and patio. Vanessa is an industry veteran with over two decades of experience. In our conversation with Vanessa, she talks about her role at charcoal and the transformation of the business into a multi-concept complex.

Vanessa talks about her start in the industry from her first job as a dishwasher and prep cook to eventually bartending. We talk about her move from working in corporate restaurants to hotels and the unique experience that comes from working in the hotel environment. Vanessa discusses the importance of hospitality and the value of making a personal connection with guests. We also discuss the importance of community in the hospitality sector.

Vanessa shares her passion for creating memorable guest experiences. Plus we cover a number of other topics as always. We want to thank Vanessa once again for taking the time out of her sketch with the come by record this episode as we had a great time and enjoy the show. For more information, visit www.mw.mw.com or check the show notes for all the links.

There's an explosive ad read. Don't make up a read. I got to do that. And now that we've got that out of the way, and once again thanks to Nbidlia for supporting the show, I'll check it out.

Let's get to our explosive interview with Vanessa Glucci. Gluang is here in person. Who's the chair? Let's go over.

Thank you. Did I pronounce your name right? Good night. I love to do it.

No, let's do it right. I know I fucked it up as soon as I said it. Vanessa Glucci is joining us. Pardon me.

Okay. Well, thanks for coming Vanessa and taking some time out. Thank you. So you are currently working at charcoal complex and describe your role there.

I'm with the charcoal legacy group. I am the beverage manager for the whole complex. So I will be taking over the beverage program for Dell's Martines and charcoal. Martines and charcoal has been, I guess, renovated about five or six years ago.

So when I was one open space where they share a menu. So Martines is more of our launch site, a little more casual to a steakhouse on the charcoal side. It's interesting because I've been there for just under two months now. I'm talking to me in like six months now and I've actually gotten my hands dirty and gone in there.

But so far so good. Like the people are wonderful. They've been around for some years. So obviously they're doing something right and it's neat to be a part of KW's history now.

That long. That long. Oh, it's crazy. Yeah.

And so it was very formal, like sort of old school steakhouse for a very long time. Not so much that way anymore. Right. You still have to offer the quality high end steaks and whatever.

But like you said, it's sort of more than with the lounge at the same time now. And how would you describe, I know you weren't working at them, but like how would you describe the artworks, like sort of what that change is from like sort of an old school steak joint to. And now it's like more open when you walk in, you don't have to divide anymore. So you feel like the comfortableness and the catamos of the lounge is very like you see it.

It's I mean, it's still beautiful and they're both sides are beautiful. But you can see the warmth in the steakhouse where you larger boost more space. The one thing I can say that I actually really love about the complex is when you go to sit down and die in there, you're not elbow to elbow with a person beside you or the table beside you. There's space.

Like you can tell they took the time to look and go, okay, our plates are huge. Like, you know, if someone orders a time of hot that takes up the whole table, you can't put that on a little two-seater. Now the lounge is a little tighter in space, but lounge are meant to be like, yeah, right? They're meant to be a little cozier, a little chit chatier.

You want to be up close and personal with a person with a lounge versus a steakhouse where you want that room to breathe to eat. I think that's the biggest difference. And like we have fireplaces everywhere. We also have two private rooms and even the private rooms have a very different feel than like the cellar or Angus, which is like our open rooms, but they're older restaurants, which still some divisions, they call them different areas.

But you see that. Like every space has its own feel to the point where regulars will be like, I want to be in the Angus or I want my event in the estate room because it has the feel and the want that I want to be a part of, which is really cool because a lot of concepts are very trendy. They're not timeless. The steakhouse is timeless.

Martini's is still timeless, even though it's a lounge. Dells, the Italian family eatery. Again, timeless with how it looks. It doesn't look tacky.

It's just this really fun and inviting space for people to be in. Yeah. And how, like if you don't know someone who's in focus here in the new room there, just tell me your shot. But do you, like, how often could they turn over to menus now?

Like I'm sure there was a stretch where they hardly ever did. So there's core items that will never leave and they are time-cherished family recipes that like I think people would riot for the S-Pargot being one of them, which is insane to me because I'm an everyday S-Pargot but people love it and they love the way it is and you're not to mess with it. But we do do like a menu flip-twicier and then we have six weeks, like interval, like seasonal menus. So there's constant innovation, there's constant change, which is really nice.

So it keeps the creative part for the chefs and even for me and for my bar team. But at the same time it's not like we switch menus every too much. Right. Well, and I think that in a place like that you can't really switch that off.

People want to, like, you go there and then you expect to get the same thing next time it comes. You've got to be a little bit more scared with your approach. So we had Josh Quayler on here a few months ago now who had your job before. And he was very involved in the cocktail creation.

So is that sort of your role as well? Yeah. And you sort of come from that. I do.

Like I said in the last 10 years of helping menu. So I'm very much looking forward to come springtime when we do do a menu flip, like really getting in there and putting fresh spin on things. But at the same time, again, the history of 70 years, there's certain cocktails that still get ordered. And like they might not be cocktails that mean you would drink now.

It might have been something I would have drank back then. So I'm actually looking forward to like going through that history and seeing one inspiration I can pull from it because I always want to make sure that I'm like pulling some of that history, some of that familiarity towards like the people who come all the time and people who may not know us, but may not know why to come in dying with us. Right. Like there's so many options now and sometimes when you see something really large, it's a little overwhelming to go to.

Yeah. And for a place like that to where a lot of people are probably ordering wine and like classic cocktails anyway, like how big a list do you think you really mean? I don't like I think we're past the days of like having, you know, 20-page cocktails. I'll fuck you.

But I think like the way I always look at it when it comes to the world of cocktailing, I can't reinvent the wheel. That's been done. I can put new threads on it. So it's taking some of the classics that you really know, putting a new spin on it that makes you go, okay, you know what I'm going to try that.

Oh man, depending on whatever other sour you make one of those and like triggering triggering sorry that feeling that nostalgia whatever it is that you want or used to drink that makes you want to drink it again. So maybe having eight cocktails, but out of those eight cocktails, you have now drank three different cocktails because one was a riff off of a Negroni and you've never had a Negroni before. Or one was nostalgic and made you want to go and have an emirons that are like sour like you used to when you were 19. Like those kind of feels and vibes.

I think that's like the direction I want to go into and I think that's the best way to go is something like that that has so much history. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I don't know if we've had anyone describe it quite like that before. Yeah, but that totally makes sense.

Like yeah, it opens your world to maybe nostalgia or trying a cocktail maybe you hadn't even thought of before which is kind of cool. And again, it's like you're totally right. We're getting overwhelmed with the amount of like I mean I've done it in my birth before too but we're just like 15 fucking cocktails on there and it's like what if like it's too much for the guests. Like especially when you also have like a wide selection of beer or wine or whatever right and it's like after a while you just get this massive list and it's just like I'll just take a muckin' something.

And it's like even proved in like marketing and sales where they'll tell you like everyone stops at a certain point and then they don't look anymore. So you could have three or four amazing cocktails that never move because they're you know six, seven, eight, nine. Well everyone stopped at six. Yeah, that makes sense too.

Yeah, yeah well it's only so much people are willing to read before they just like I just want to drink it this way. Exactly. And it's the same with the food then you too really. So to keep that tighter is important as well.

Okay so let's back it up a little bit. So when did you first get involved in the search industry? Like any true blue person that was 14 years old and a dishwasher. Yeah there you go.

But it's funny because like I grew up in the industry without growing up in the industry. So my father is a talented cook and as a chef and my uncle's owned Hockley Valley in the late 70s, early 80s. But then I was like another uncle's a restaurant. My uncle's a major D.

My father bartended it. We all played a role in it but it wasn't until I was a teenager where we like directly involved in it. Like my parents bought H&M catering when I was 16 and I was like I'm not working for mom and dad. No, not doing it, not doing it.

And then I gave in and I was like I'm not working for a person. Nope, nope, I'll do the dishes. I'll be a prep cook. It's fine.

And then I turned 18 and I'm like I'm gonna be a bartender. Sure. I'm gonna be a bartender. And the first one I'm gonna be a bartender.

The one was like kind of a seasoned. I'm like what's the scisser? I grew up where we drank the cow, parmour, wine, kon yak and then if my dad's friends came over they had beer. We weren't spirit people.

We weren't cocktail people. So it was so funny to like ask like ask that question and then I was like I made it my mission that I can make the best scissor. And then I moved to the Caribbean and I'm like alright well it's Canada Day. We're having a Canada Day brunch.

We're having a scissor bar. I'm running it and I need XYZ to make it as Canadian as possible. So it's my evolution has like taken me everywhere but from being involved without being involved to like eat, breathe, sleep, hospitality. Yeah.

So from there from catering I got into corporate restaurants right when like I think corporate restaurants were like you know your shit didn't stink. My tat is Kelsey's, check asters, Alsies, they were all on top of their game. I remember you wanted to be a jackasster bartender because they flared and they did the competitions and it was so cool. And the industry wasn't what it is now and I didn't have the community it has now.

So if you met a club bartender they'd be like you don't bartend you work at a restaurant. Right. And I'm like hello have you seen what I had to do with? I'm like I just made 12 milkshakes, 15 blender, dakri, 12 different flavors, poured, six schooners, two pitchers made xyz cocktails and you know kept so and so away from xyz like me and not a bartender.

But yeah I did that. I moved out west. I moved home and when I came home I had a hard time getting back into the industry. Why did you have a hard time getting back into it?

It's when the industry changed and it went to miniskirts, halter tops. It wasn't about hospitality it was about how you looked. I remember going in for a job interview with the public doesn't exist anymore and having the general manager look me up and down after doing my first interview and then just not acknowledge me for the rest of the interview. And I was like why are we wasting our time?

You don't think I'm going to look in your skirt? I don't want to be in a short skirt. Right. So let's move on.

So then I did a little stint in working security and working in student bars. I mean thank you for the memories. Was that here in town as well? Yeah I worked in that at Trappers Alley in Guelph.

So party town. Oh yeah I did there. Everyone has a story and a lot of people I know and I've run into in different parts of the country that I've lived in have been like I know you, you kicked out my friend. I watch you fireman this girl.

I'm like, hey, please don't hold that against me. I'm going to tell you what helps. And it was a game changer. I found my people.

Like it was I worked for an independent. I worked for the Marriott. I worked for the Fairmont. Highly highly recommend the Fairmont to anyone and everyone.

If you're looking to get into hospitality, phenomenal company to work for. Which other response did you work at? For the Marriott I worked in the Sculka and the Grand Cayman. For the Fairmont I worked for Lake Louise.

And then I worked at an independent place called Poets Cove in Pender Island BC. Wow. So it is very much a different life. It's probably where I learned to eat, sleep, breathe, hospitality.

It's a combination. One of the main reasons. But they just, you do hospitality different. You build regular clientele differently.

I was mind blown when I had a job offer because she was amazed by my skill set and my memory. I had a woman be like, look, this is what you can be doing. Instead of being talked down to or believe that my job wasn't of value. She was telling her daughter, no, go do what she does.

Go travel. Go work. Go make new friends. Go see different people.

And that was so refreshing. I've had a couple be like, let us know when you're in this part of the world. You can stay with us. If you want to try working here, we will help you out.

Like, just you're amazing. Come stay with us. Another couple messaging me and be like, hey, we're thinking of coming back here. Do you still work there?

We notice you took a break. We're not going to go there if you're not working. I'm like, you're deciding your vacation by where? What hotel I'm working at?

That's insane. Yeah, that's cool though. But that's insane. So how would you describe the training scenario and working for hotels that led you to this situation where you felt differently about how you provided service and hospitality?

It was about making someone feel at home. And I know we're always taught that. And how many times have you worked in a place where they say, treat this place like your home, treat the bar like your living room. You want to create that invitation.

And hotels, it's different because they are living there. They are living there. They really are. You're going to have people come in good, the bad.

How many times did I get? Oh, we just got engaged on the lake. Okay, let's celebrate. But you have no one else to celebrate because you're on a run.

I have to get away. You're calling your friends. You're calling your parents. But I'm here.

So let's celebrate. Let's celebrate you. In restaurants, they're like, here's a complimentary piece of cake. Or not.

Let's get you involved. Yeah. And hotels is one thing that's great. I really learned how to get Joe and Mo to become friends because you might have a two-day regular.

Ten days of the same conversation, not going to get you very far, right? But Mo over here, he's traveling for insurance. And you said you're doing taxes and whatever. I remember having one gentleman from the state who came to see his estranged son and was going through a really messy divorce.

And I had another man from England who had gone through a similar situation. The only reason why they knew that is because I was talking to both of them and you correlated something for them to talk to a church or you could go make cocktails. They just, they really taught you how to celebrate people and how to make people feel welcome and loved and lack of a transaction even though their whole stay is one more transition. Restaurants, some really great places know how to do that.

And other places think they know how to do that. And it's a shorter period of time. So you don't have the same amount of time to put into it, right? Yeah.

Like your time with that guess is a lot shorter than if they're like you said, maybe they're on a ten-day stay at your resort or hotel or whatever, right? You can really get to know the people and also kind of figure out exactly what they're looking for from when you're in the restaurant or like working at a restaurant or a bar, you have a very small window to try and figure out what the fuck these people are wanting out of their visit, right? Because at the hotel or resort you've got however long they're there for. And you would see people in, like when I worked in an area in Scocca, there was people that I would see every long weekend or because of the way the resort worked, you could be in a cottage and buy a day pass into their spa and pool area and whatnot.

So then you would get to know these people. And you do get regular to the restaurant obviously. And I mean I've been very lucky. I've had regular to where we're like, you know, we don't like going to someone's hope place anymore because you're not there.

You made the difference. You made that place. And that is so warming because I don't know how many times that I've had a bad day. And I'm like, how am I going to get through to work?

And I see my regular and I'm like, oh my God, it's you guys. All right, who did my days going to be phenomenal because I get to start my day with you guys. Like you made my day. And I think that's a piece of hospitality that the newer generation has lost completely.

And it's sad because like, I don't think that's something you can teach per se. Is there something you want to do and you love? Which makes you a career server or bartender? Or you just don't?

Yeah, I do think there's a difference. Like, I mean, it doesn't have to necessarily be someone younger because there are certainly people who are older who don't give a fuck either. But like the, but the real thing is, are like, do you enjoy meeting people and providing good service or are you just like, you know, just like a job? Like, why are you doing this, right?

Like, is it cheap, quick cash? Great. Because that's fine meeting those people too. But like for the people who stick with it, it tends to be because you like the connections you make with your guests.

And also because you like have committed yourself to giving good service to people. No, it's true. And I think people forget lost in what good service can be different things. And you could do every step of service, correct, and give good service.

And then you just know how to be a good human and create a connection and give good service. That's a little bit more unique. And I think that component is what is missing today in a lot of places that you don't see anymore. But hotels still, they hold on to that because they're so picky about who they hire and how they hire them because that means the world.

And they know that's what's going to give their return to their business. And some restaurants hold the same value and other restaurants. Not so much. Yeah.

So when you were working in all of these different hotels where you basically bartending or bar managing or like do a bunch of different jobs? It's bartending. Like it was when I was at Poets, I worked in a mass petition by trade as well. So I worked in a spot in the day and I worked in a restaurant at night.

Oh, really? That's good. That's good. I'm sure they wrap it up.

My back didn't love me, but that's okay. So how does that work though? Just like as a technical question. So you got paid both ways.

Like a different rate of pay, obviously, for when you were in an institution and then a different rate of pay for when you're bar taking plus tips or whatever. It belonged to us. It is. And it was great.

It helped me decide that I want to continue my career in hospitality as a bartender and as a server and not in the aesthetics. It was just like I enjoyed it. I just, you do three pedicures in a row and you can't get up. And you're like, and I'm done.

Oh, yeah. I have no idea about that. That's a lot of sitting and like hunched over. Yeah, I have to be angle.

I'd rather run up and down stairs and across. You know, like. We just get different physical. Yeah.

And it's more than more than more than the knees than the back. So, but yeah, like I'm probably some of the bartender in a server and I loved it. I was actually probably the only place that I ever had true work life balance. But when you live in an island with 2,000 people and there is no major anything if forces you to have work life balance because only what you're going to say is if you find things to keep you entertained.

So it was great. I would get up. And then you would be amazing. Get up.

Do yoga. Go to magic, like go swimming, read my book and then like go to work. And you know, you may obviously be your friends with your co-workers. But again, because you had no movie theater.

There was no nightclubs or nothing to go to. You had to have dinner parties or house parties. So there's not even like a real bar that you would come to get at? Well, I worked at it.

Because there was the only one. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

I don't know if I could deal with that list. Obviously. There was no more. But it just made you stop and thank you.

You didn't care to like, I mean like yes, to be sit at home, watch movies, play the game. See, trims. Sure. Yeah.

You know what I mean? But like you had to be social and it wasn't, it was intentional and it was kind, it was like summer camp. That's the best I can describe my time there. It was like summer camp.

But as an adult. So how long did you stay at some of those places? So I was, panders there for just under six months. I did a season and then I went to Lake Louise and I was there for three years.

I left Lake Louise for the Grand Cayman. I gave up the winter for permanent summer. And I wanted to change in lifestyle. I was, I'm not a winter person.

Like I can handle a snow. But I don't ski. I don't snowboard. I tried.

I failed. I'm a dude. This whole situation I learned right now is complete horse. How did you were like, why is it winter?

I'm like, because it's December. We used to get snow in October guys. I don't remember. I hope it was snowboarding Friday.

So it's good for you. But yeah, I moved to Grand Cayman because I wanted, I wanted, like, I wanted sun. I wanted warmth. I wanted to live my life at a beach bomb.

I was wrong. I think if I would have moved further east or further west, I would have had that lifestyle. Because I lived off the set of miles. It was all about being a socialite.

Everyone, like I remember my roommate would be like, this is Vanessa. She worked for lobby bar at the Marriott. That was your introduction. It was your name, your job title.

Because it was who did I know? How did I know them? What could I get at them? No.

And I mean, it's fair because when you think about it, your drink came in. It is an expensive place. If you didn't have the money to do the things you wanted to do, you had to know the people who had the things you could do it. Because all the sports and all the fun things involved the water.

So if you want to go scuba diving, you want to send a day on the boat, you have to know the right people. And it was, you would go out. Like, I joked around and I was like, I'm 30 and I'm pretending I'm 19. I had to drink a bottle of Jack or Jim and finish my own off for the bottle for a second on the beach.

And I would do that three, four times a week. And I was like, what am I doing with my life? And I've never been a big, big drinker. Like I've had my obviously college experience.

But it was just, I was like, this is not what I wanted. I wanted to come and snorkel and scuba dive and have bonfire on the beach and not work 12 hours a week. I have to be doing a fucking book. But I was like, I'm working 12 hours a week, six days a week.

And I mean, peak season, obviously that's what you're going to do. And then on shoulder season, you take advantage of everything. So was this all working for Fairmont or Marriott? Marriott's when I was drinking.

So when you're with Marriott or Fairmont, whatever, can you just say, I want to try a different location or do you just wait for specific job postings to come up and apply for it? After six months, you can change departments, at least for the Fairmont. After a year, you could transfer to another location. Obviously, when transferring, you would wait for a position to open up.

So if I was like, okay, I want to go work at Fairmont, Vancouver. And I see people are hiring a head bar tender. Then I would put in my application. I'm actually going on top of the list because I would be a transfer.

Obviously, have that conversation with management. And then there's always the behind the scenes conversations of is this person of value? Are they worth taking and all that kind of stuff? And then you go for the interview process?

But do you ever have any on the back end where they're like, we don't want this person to go? So we're going to like sort of ex-name that? I mean, I've heard stories go either way. I guess you wouldn't really know, right?

I've heard stories where someone's been promoted or too different one because they just wanted them out. Because you do technically go under probation again. And then I've heard otherwise where it's been like, we really don't want you to leave. So it's not like we're going to trash talk to you into staying, but we might sweeten something in our way to keep you here.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. And again, I guess you wouldn't really know. But I wonder like there's some sort of diabolical machinations behind the scene where they're just like, we do not want Vanessa to go to the Cayman Islands.

So we're just going to say she's got a shitty other job. And I hope not. I'm sure someone has pulled something along the way somewhere in one place or another. And I guess they could, right?

Yeah, I really could. Yeah, because it is simply small. Even though it's quite large, it is small. It's so small.

Like when I lived in a scoka, I remember like I was on the lake and I was just like reading my book and I heard these people talk about this female bouncer at Trappers and what she did and I'm like, please don't turn your head and look down. Please don't turn your head and look down because I'm that girl. When I moved to BC and I like went and moved into like my house, my flatmates like, I know you and I was like, I don't know you. And he was like, you kicked out my friend last week.

I'm like going white party. Last week. Wow. Well, I was doing my job.

Hey, we're doing my job. Now you know what I can do is don't be an asshole. I'll take a trash. Trash.

It checks the break in the back. So like, really, in that sense, it is small. Yeah, it's so, especially because I actually do think that like I'm holding you obviously. So like in my generation, we didn't really realize that this or some people did, but not as many realize that this was sort of the bartending lifestyle you could lead where you could travel all over the place.

So I think it's become so we, it was small, but we would stay in the same community for the most part. But now globally it's become a small community because so many people have figured out that not only can this be your career, but it can also be a lifestyle where you travel all over the fucking world. And then now all of a sudden the entire globe has become smaller for this industry in a way that is not for other industries, right? Yeah.

And then social media plays a huge role. Yeah, especially post-COVID. Oh yeah. Like I went to tail.

It was not this year or the year before. And it was hilarious because we saw Caitlin like a bull cocktails. And when the girls that I was with, she was like, oh my god, I need to go meet her. My sister's a huge fan of hers.

And it's just like, you're like, well, not only is this something to look up to because she is my age, she has one world and she's doing something phenomenal. But like I feel like industry wise, I know you. Yeah, and you do. And I also think that as well, like most of those people are pretty open to you like coming up and talking to them as well, right?

Like it's not like it used to be either. And we had like a little stretch where the whole star tender thing was really a big thing. And this was a little bit maybe even before COVID where that was really starting to explode. But then I think the one thing about us all being trapped in our homes and trying to figure out another something, A something to do and B maybe another way to make income is that it sort of put everybody, all this is like everybody on the equal playing field because now you might be a star tender at whatever spot.

But now like Joe Schmau has fucking 100,000 Instagram followers and it's just is more well known than you are. Right? So yeah, just because they started doing stuff on social media. So it's kind of leveled that playing field a little bit and the whole star tender thing was getting out of control anyway.

It was. It really was. Yeah, we're not going to miss that. I used to like at the end of the day, I always used to tell my staff this too.

It was like, we're not like just chill out. Like we're not we're not splitting the atom here. What we do is we take orders and then we bring those orders to people. That's what we do at the end of the day.

Now there's different levels of doing that and we can all take pride in the way we do that and like the connection you make with your fellow staff members and your guests. But let's not let's not think that we're solving world peace. It's true and even the world of cocktailing is getting a little out of hand. Like don't you wrong, the cocktail nerd of me is loving it.

And it's funny because I say to people like never in a million years I think I become a chemist. Like you know, if someone would ask me like, what's great in chemistry when I was like, what's great in chemistry when I was like, what's great in chemistry? I don't need to ask great and I'm not doing anything with it. Well, I was wrong.

Never thought I'd be chemistry at the bartender, but obviously I do. When you started getting into like the craft cocktailing and like got really involved in that and obviously that's been a huge development in your career and like probably your whole personality. Yeah. Yeah.

So you learned from someone hands on, did you read a bunch of books? Did you do both? A little bit of everything. Like I think where I got really lucky is that I didn't get trapped in that world of like, I only know this way and that way only.

And I based my whole career, even though I was a servant of art, just that. I was just like, I am your chameleon. I'm going to come in and fill in the gap. Whatever you need, I can do and learn how to work in that.

So like when I went to poet, so that was me getting back into the industry, I got to meet like some really talented people. I got to meet with this bartender from England, who was quite young and me, but just had an act for it. And he reunited my spark for bartending. I was just like, I just want to serve and I just wanted to change it.

And when it became a dreamer, this is why I ended up a poet. And then from there, you know, I went to a fair amount and I was working with, again, these great bartenders who wasn't in love with tequila and another one was in love with scotch and another one was in bourbon. And just because they were my friends and we would sit at the table and we would have drinks and we would talk, I got to learn something different and paid attention a bit more. Fell in love with old fashions.

Opened up my world to not just sex and city cosmos and whatever, you know, like fun, ridiculous cocktail from a poster that I, you know, we had when we were kids or a drink that someone told me to have. And then same thing, I moved to Grand Cayman when the bartenders were from the Philippines. Another one was from Venezuela, like Costa Rica. And again, these talented, beautiful people.

And I'm just like, I'll take it off. You have it to me. Let me absorb all this knowledge and this beauty and you know how they craft a garnish to how they flip a shaker, which don't ever ask me to flare. I will break things.

What do you mean? Like they're? I won't tell Jack answer. To even like my present day, well, not anymore, but Karina, my beverage director, you know, when I moved over to the Newell, I met this woman who obsessed about ice.

Like, ice is such a huge component and I never thought about before mainly because living in KW and we have garbage water. You just accept. I have a little ice obsession too, but it's just really hard to do anything about it where we are. Right.

So, you know, to me, this person who's like obsessive about ice but also obsessed with the clock tailing and like, you know, you, and then on that you add in all the little books like, you know, that we probably all own and we all read and it's awesome to have, but to be able to sit at a table and have a conversation with people who are just as nerdy or just as passionate or even more passionate about it kept me in this industry and pushes me to continue in this industry. So I am very thankful for all the mini mentors that I've had in my career. And so would you describe yourself as more of like a hands-on learner than like, like learning from reading a book or because you obviously did both, but like the way you're describing this experience is definitely way more of like learning hands-on. Oh yeah, I was for sure saying more hands-on.

I mean, now with the world of social media, how many times do I watch a YouTube video? Because I mean, nobody needs to read anymore. No, but because I'm curious or like, for example, Angel Reyes, we were using that for a cocktail and then El Cevo deals with it, we couldn't get anymore and I'm like, well, no, we're not having Angel Reyes. Yeah, yeah.

So I watched a video, learned how to make it and then made my own interest, obviously not the same, but so you know, do I have the recipe for yellow short roofs? Yes, will I ever make it? Probably not. What you mean, like you just...

I mean, I'm not going to be able to buy it, so... Yeah, so it's just, it comes down to like, I think it's a lot of hands-on, but then it's also a lot of visual learning in different aspects. It's being out of bar and watching the bartender while I have a cocktail or it's sitting with friends or taking a class. Like, I did my level two, so I mean, they're not offered their own version of the master class for all their bartenders.

So like, it was cool to jump into those, go to talk in Toronto, go to tales. Like, I think I've consumed my knowledge in every format possible. Yeah, it's like learning about most of these things, right? And like you're saying, every one of those steps that you're talking about is very important.

Like, you've done a lot of different jobs, even working, even being a bouncer, for real, that gives you some experience, you know, because I had to do that and like, it gives you a learning... you learn something about the body, you wouldn't have learned if you just stood by the way. Right. So, and like, how to deal with guests and customers, like, all of that experience is valuable, and it all just seeps in and sort of molds you into the type of service industry professionally meant that being, right?

Very true. Yeah, and you've done all the fucking jobs. That makes me laugh because my younger service, you're like, how many lives have you lived? I'm like, I don't know, one, two?

I don't know, some of them all kind of blended in together or something, like, do it at the same time. It's just different back then. You jumped into everything because you could. Yeah, I always laugh at this like how I got into bartending because I wanted to travel.

And so I did a lot of, I would bartend, travel, bartend travel and always be able to come back and find a job or bartend while I was traveling or whatever. And then I had to play an idea that opened my own bars and now I don't get to go anywhere. I love it right now. Yeah, so don't do that.

It's funny, everyone's like, well, I can open up your own place and I know because I want to leave one day. Yeah, it's a bit of an anchor. I mean, there's obviously perks of being owning your own business, but it's stressful as fuck and it's like, also, it is an anchor. You're not taking off and going away for months at a time, that's for sure.

So you're, I might talk to something not to you, but I think you said before we started recording that your family's out during it. Yeah, I'll tell you in an Algerian. Okay, well, I didn't talk about congratulations. I'm going to talk about that.

So do you find that upbringing, either those cultural sides of it have influenced you in the way you go about crafting cocktails? Like, did you bring any of the sort of cultural, like even from food or what you said that there was a lot of Pranoh and like cognac in your family? Like, has that influenced you in the guy? What have you got?

That was a long question. That's okay. I have longed answers to everything, so I got it. I think like, obviously when like it comes to like the new restaurants I'm working out with the charcoal complex of tells, you know, like having an Italian restaurant, I'd like to pull in some more like traditional Italian cocktails, but with a twist, right, to make them more either visually appealing or more comfortable to come, like to try.

I don't expect someone to have a charan soda or a charanade sprit anytime soon, but you know, they might have a variation of it. When it comes to home, we drink very like, I don't want to say clean, but very basic. You know what I mean? I think what the, especially the Italian side of my family really brought to me is the hospitality of it, the big, loud, families, you have to talk to the person beside you or across from you.

Like, there was no ways about it. Like, you had to socialize, which was phenomenal because really like, it taught me how to one read a room and two how to get the whole room connected because, you know, when you're a bartender, you own the stage. Yeah. Yeah.

So we have to talk about all the time, you're acting for the name. Yeah. And you have to know how to man that stage and you need to know how to bring those people in and keep those people interested and, you know, how to take that horrible day that person's having and have them leave feeling a little bit better about themselves. And also know when to shut up and listen when they just want to talk to you and to get, know when to get out of their face when they don't want to either.

Exactly. You know, and knowing all that and learning that and again, like how to get Joe Schmo to chat with, you know, Leanne over here and also how to protect yourself, right? Like, I think people forget how draining this industry is. And I realized that in COVID, I was nonstop and then COVID hit and I think I slept for a month.

I like got up and now I got up. I got up for the second round. But like I couldn't, it was so geared, I think probably by month three to be like, oh, this is what a normal like sleep cycle is like I go to bed at like 11 and I'm up by seven and I see daylight. Yeah, it's like it's like you're about right now.

And I was like, all right, I promise myself that like when I go back, I'm going to be applying to myself, I'm going to take time, like three months in, I'm back to exactly what I was going to say before. No, that's interesting that way you describe it. Like it's more sort of developed your career and the way that you deal with the guests that it has actually for like what you put into cocktails or whatever, right? That's pretty interesting.

Yeah, because like when it comes to the world of cocktails, there's always going to be something trendy, something classic. Yeah, usually based on whatever TV shows are right. Right. Like you look at the cosmos, that's the city like I don't think any of you.

Well fashion. Who was your good old fashioned before? I've been. Exactly.

Like, no, like so look at the world in the sky, look how popular in the sky, right now. And you know you're going to have to take those in and do something with them. If you ignore it, you're never going to succeed, especially if you want to grow a bar business. But then I think about when I worked at the uncle and we had 17 bottles of Vermont as a Spanish for me.

And I'm like, what am I going to do with 17 bottles? With some of that stuff still left over from when it was Berlin though, because like I remember when I was working there and the wine cellar was fucking insane because it was the Berlin which was like a fine dining restaurant with Johnson Gushu as their chef and Wes, class and as their song. And like he put together this unbelievable collection of bottles in the cellar. But we were never going to fucking sell it at this new whatever which uncle was a pub slash find out.

Like I don't think they knew what they were. So you know what I'm saying about that. I'll just say that. But you got the Leafs on the TV over here and you're serving fucking caviar over there.

Like I don't know what we're doing right now. But they had this crazy wine list. And then so Rick Banchelli was basically the song before he went to the mill. Shout out to Rick.

He still listens. But I kind of got that job after he left because nobody else knew anything about wine. And so I was like well let's just sell the shit that's in the basement. Like nobody knows what this stuff is.

You're never going to sell it next to the fucking rich uncle burger or whatever is on the menu this week. And so like let's just I'll just yeah like you know like oh advertise it. Put it on social media that we have like we're selling like a white burgundy for a discount of price this week coming to get it. Like is this just sitting there.

And they didn't want to get behind that. What they did it for like two weekends and then decided they want to do it anymore. And then I was like I actually when I went to open Babylon tried to buy the whole seller off the thing. It was just still sitting there.

I believe by the time I went in the Vermont I think was an accidental order by one of the beverage managers I know this prior to the beverage manager for me. I don't know what they did because at that point I didn't see the meal. Was it the black one? Yeah.

I still have quite a few bottles of that myself. I got delivered to me by accident. And I like it is delicious. It is delicious.

And I got really lucky. So Vanessa who owns all of that her and her husband again amazing people amazing restaurant I recommend going. But I was like this is a Spanish remit. What can you tell me about it?

She kind of guided me with it about like what it is from me then to cocktail then I joked around it. I went and I sold the last bottle. When I left they were down to a bottle and a half. So you lied.

I know. I know. But that's pretty good. Yeah.

There was a lot there. Even when I was looking at it. And one of the bartenders was like we actually had to go and buy more bottles because your cocktails have had it was so popular that we couldn't. I was like well I did something right.

But it's my like when you talk with the uncle they really I don't think they ever knew what they were doing with it. And by the time me and Julia got to take it over it was already too far gone but what we did with it is pretty special and like honestly like leaving that restaurant was like probably one of the worst breakups I've ever had. Really? But like me and Julia did.

We put a lot of love in it and like by the time we left there was no sports on TV. We played the fireplace in the winter and we did the aquarium in the summer because we wanted you to talk to each other. We were a first eight hotspot. It didn't matter who your date was.

You know we obviously we were really big with the LGBTQ plus community. We did drag shows. We were tempting a lot of things to figure out what worked and what didn't. I think losing upstairs was the biggest mistake they ever did.

I like ripping up the staircase. It's so beautiful. I broke my heart. I don't know how many times people have been back upstairs.

I'm like if you can find a way up. Do you see the staircase? Because I don't. The problem I found too is that they never figured out they could never figure out what to do with that upstairs spot because it was so nice.

It was like this cute little library style bar and but they just didn't know what to do with it. So nobody ever went up there. Like if I remember I would specifically I was going to leave and the GM didn't want me to leave so he's like well what can I do to make a stay and I'm like well one thing is never sketching me upstairs again. Because if you would just stand up there all night and nobody would come up there.

I think they should have put live entertainment upstairs and then left the main floor is dining. And then turn the upstairs into a speakeasy. We have the back alley stairs. That's right.

And there's a Friday, Saturday nights. That's what it was open for. And then obviously you want to do weddings, you whatever because you have the board room on one side and then you have the library bar on the other. That had so much potential.

But whatever they did what they did and it's now an Indian restaurant that looks like it's doing well. I'm going to tell you something about that Indian restaurant. It's pretty fucking fun. I'm going to give it a shout out right now because it turns into like an Indian nightclub.

It looks stunning. It's stunning. I just don't have it in me to go in. Well, then I think that one day we should go have a drink there because it's pretty fucking funny.

It's like they have like a cocktail wheel. Oh, cool. No, none of it's cool. It's kitschy funny.

Yeah. You just got to embrace the vibe. But we've been there a couple of times and I got to tell you, we've never had a bad time there. Like their cocktail menu is like an Indian restaurant food menu.

So they have like 45 cocktails. They're all pretty stupid. But it's like a good, but they got like a DJ pumping club music in there. It's quite a vibe.

Like if you're if you are downtown and you're not spending your whole night at Sugar Girl and you should be, then you should at least check that. Yeah, pop in for a drink or two. Yeah. It's a good thing.

Even then like me and Julia, you know, we, you know, like we were trying to push to build the community in KW. We're really good at that. We wanted to try to do like some type of like bar hop or bar crawl. How many times would be like, we're busy, but you know what?

You know where you need to go? You need to go to Sugar Girl. Julia. Julia, Julia.

Julia, Julia. Someone she couldn't walk them over. She would give them the map to how to get to your place. I want to give a little shadow to Julia right now.

Sorry, I don't remember Julia's last name right. Barga. Julia Barga, that's right. I'm just going to say that I'm going to go to the first place where the, just the literal fact that like when Sugar Red opened, she would, people didn't know about it yet and she would literally walk your guests over to the back door of Sugar Run.

So shout out to Julia, I feel the same. I hope you'll sing. Yeah. Yeah.

That was amazing. And, and to both of you, because you did, and we, and we would do the same for rich uncles. Like, oh, if you're coming to come in to people, like where do we go when we come down down? We'd just come here and go to dinner at rich uncle, have some drinks there.

Like, that's a cool pub, even just for a few drinks as well. And then down's the round. Like, I said it a million times. And the reason why Home Depot is always across the street from Lowe's.

Like, you need a community. Yeah, it's true. You need a community. And when COVID hit and we lost so many bars down there, it really fucked us all up.

So we lost like three or four good spots down there. And no one in today's climate sits in one bar and drinks all night. Like, we, when we were in university, we would hang out in the same fucking pub all night and drink like a million pitchers and never leave. But now people want to bounce around.

You want to have dinner here, maybe dessert over here. Like, or just bounce for apps at different spots. And you, but you're definitely not sitting in the same spot. And if you make the commitment to go out for a night out, you want to experience.

You want to go into a few different spots, right? And so you need as many spots down there as possible. Yeah. And that was like the downfall.

Like when I worked in Cambridge, it was just people like, so where do I go after here? And I'm like, well, you look at the time and go, we're the last spot of the night story. You know, because like they were closed already too early or there was nothing to go to or you just went to Gaslight District and you did like the three places there. And then you went home because you didn't want to walk over the bridge to the new one 13.

Like it was very, it's true. Like you really do need your community to make not only use successful, but every accessible. That's right. And what I was saying that you ladies were doing that in a rich uncle that we always really appreciate is like, and we tried to return the favor is like promoting other fucking bars because if people realize that there's like six or seven spots in that little area that they can go to on a weekend, like I always used to say the competition for Sugar Run isn't rich uncle.

The competition for Sugar Run is uptown Waterloo. You know what I mean? We need them to come to downtown. We're a community down here.