EPISODE · Oct 9, 2025 · 51 MIN
EP 3: Playing the Wrong Game
from The Last Invention · host Longview
What if the path to a true thinking machine was found not just in a lab… but in a game? For decades, AI’s greatest triumphs came from games: checkers, chess, Jeopardy. But no matter how many trophies it took from humans, it still couldn’t think. In this episode, we follow the contrarian scientists who refused to give up on a radical idea, one that would ultimately change how machines learn. But their breakthrough came with a cost: incredible performance, at the expense of understanding how it actually works. THIS EPISODE FEATURES: Yoshua Bengio, Liv Boeree, Geoffrey Hinton, Karen Hao, Keach Hagey, Jasmine Sun LINKS: Karen Hao’s book: Empire of AI Keach Hagey's book: The Optimist Liv Boeree's podcast: Win Win CREDITS: This episode of The Last Invention was reported and produced by Andy Mills, Gregory Warner, Andrew Parsons, Megan Phelps-Roper, Matthew Boll, Seth Temple Andrews, and Ethan Mannello. It is hosted by Gregory Warner Music for this episode was composed by Scott Devendorf, Ben Lanz, Cobey Bienert, and Matthew Boll The Last Invention artwork by Jacob Boll To become a Longview subscriber you can visit us here Thank you to our sponsors Ground News and FIRE GROUND NEWS : Go to groundnews.com/invent to get 40% off unlimited access to global coverage of the stories shaping our world. FIRE This is a paid sponsorship link. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
What this episode covers
What if the path to a true thinking machine was found not just in a lab… but in a game? For decades, AI’s greatest triumphs came from games: checkers, chess, Jeopardy. But no matter how many trophies it took from humans, it still couldn’t think. In this episode, we follow the contrarian scientists who refused to give up on a radical idea, one that would ultimately change how machines learn. But their breakthrough came with a cost: incredible performance, at the expense of understanding how it actually works. THIS EPISODE FEATURES: Yoshua Bengio, Liv Boeree, Geoffrey Hinton, Karen Hao, Keach Hagey, Jasmine Sun LINKS: Karen Hao’s book: Empire of AI Keach Hagey's book: The Optimist Liv Boeree's podcast: Win Win CREDITS: This episode of The Last Invention was reported and produced by Andy Mills, Gregory Warner, Andrew Parsons, Megan Phelps-Roper, Matthew Boll, Seth Temple Andrews, and Ethan Mannello. It is hosted by Gregory Warner Music for this episode was composed by Scott Devendorf, Ben Lanz, Cobey Bienert, and Matthew Boll The Last Invention artwork by Jacob Boll To become a Longview subscriber you can visit us here Thank you to our sponsors Ground News and FIRE GROUND NEWS : Go to groundnews.com/invent to get 40% off unlimited access to global coverage of the stories shaping our world. FIRE This is a paid sponsorship link. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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EP 3: Playing the Wrong Game
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