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It's coming right up on this week's Telecast. So on this week's show, we have a double header from BBC Studios, two guests who are at the very top of BBC Studios' digital efforts. We have Jasmine Dawson, SVP of Digital Consumer Engagement and we have Nat Paul to VP of Digital Commercial. At BBC Studios, guys, welcome to Telecast.
Great to be here, Justin. Thank you for having us. Not at all, not at all. Great to have you both on the show.
It was great to see you at the Telecast Digital Content Forum last week, of which you obviously both did a keynote, which is fantastic. And we'll come on to talk a little bit about that later in the show. We always kick off the show, or usually kick off the show, talking about people's careers, which I think is always really helpful to get a sense of how executives have got to the roles that they have. Jasmine, starting with you, can you give us a bit of a background to your career and how you ended up as SVP Digital Consumer Engagement at BBC Studios?
Sure. So I started in Creative Agencies and then moved into Media Agencies. So I really used to say that I have honed my craft in the agency world, both in London and in New York. I enjoyed and still enjoy that pace and the creativity that is driven by the pace of the agency world.
And I also worked for so many brands and several industries. So from Revlon to the Bev, to the Shareways, to the New York Times, within agency roles, I also went in-house at several of these as well. But it really allowed me to understand the difference between that response driven environment for brands such as the New York Times and Hulu, and also sort of branded models such as Revlon and Mars. I worked on Scaled Digital Products where these brands were trying to become creators as well as drive their own revenues.
And I thoroughly enjoyed working across these, my work won awards and recognitions through ad week, the Shorty Awards and at Count Lyon, as well as sort of leading bigger and bigger teams. I think the difference between sort of working in London, Asian cities in New York, and Asian cities was striking and having spent six years in New York at what's now called Essence MediaCon. Back then it was just MediaCon. I decided to return home for family reasons, but also because I had just found that I really wanted to move towards a values driven business.
And that's not to say that agencies aren't balance driven, but I do think that ultimately they are not in charge of their own destiny. And I wanted to be somewhere which was solving plenty of problems like I was doing for all of the brands I'm working on, but I wanted to do it at a place where I felt that had a values driven business. And I also wanted to move closer to the content. Throughout my career, I've worked with in digital, I've always been in digital, and it's always close to the content business.
But it's what really inspired me and it's what I wanted to be able to make sort of the second part of my career about. Right, okay, that's really interesting because coming from that brand focused digital media agency side and having experienced work and culture and approached the digital and approach to marketing both in the States and in the UK, you're obviously pretty well placed to understand how the whole digital content model is moving. So in terms of New York and in London then, which centre do you think is more advanced in terms and more sophisticated if you like? When it comes to brands investing into content and building their engagement with consumers through digital content, which side of the pond is more sophisticated?
I think they're trying to solve different problems. We've got a smaller market in London and we've got smaller budgets, but I think there is potentially more innovation this side of the pond because you need to do more with less. And I think when you're looking at smaller budgets and making it work harder for you, you're forced into greater thinking, you're forced into deeper partnerships to be able to get the reach that you need. Whereas in New York, I think it's a different set of challenges.
I think you've got a huge market but made up of very different territories who need different types of messaging and one campaign can't solve for the entire territory and therefore localisation and really clear state by state content strategy is really cool to all. So I think in terms of who's more advanced, I would say there are advanced and different things. I think technology and innovation is advancing faster. This side of the pond, bigger creative campaigns and the ability to join up with fantastic talent and do things such as with the Singapore or other impressive landmarks is really where it's at when you think about the other side of the pond.
So I think they both do very well in different lanes. I think it was really helpful to get an understanding of how to innovate with smaller budgets because then when you're in London and then you go to walk and have 10 times the budget. But the expectations of cut through and reach were really, really high. So how long have you been at BBC Studios now, Jasmine?
Been here a couple of years or a little bit longer? I started in 2018 so I've been here five years. Right, okay. And obviously seen a huge amount of change in that period including the dreaded pandemic and all the changes that brought upon us.
Now, Matt, welcome to the show. Great to have you on. And you're a much more recent addition to the senior team at BBC Studios. Tell us a little bit about your background.
Yeah, again, thanks for having us. I was thinking about this as Jasmine was running through her career. And to be fair, it's very much more by luck than design that I'm kind of sitting here talking to you today. I mean, I come from a long line of biochemists.
My grandparents were biochemists and went to the university, not to be my parents were biochemists and went to university and not to women. Weirdly, I was a biochemist and went to the university of Nottingham. And I guess that kind of talks to you only know what you know, really. And I went there.
I absolutely loved it. All the way up until my third year where I ended up doing placement and having sort of pipette into test tubes day in day out. And realized that actually I wanted to work around people. And so I kind of fell out of that degree applied for graduate programs, which is kind of what you did back then, I guess.
And I ended up joining the John Lewis partnership leadership program and thought, you know, what will be more access to people than being at the cutting edge of retail. And it certainly did that. I lasted about 11 months there before I quit in a ball of flames because I realized that actually retail teaches you a lot of lessons and I couldn't quite keep up with the pace. I think it was the honest truth of it.
Yeah, came out of that and ultimately needed to pay my rent and managed to fall in a job at DMGT as an analyst. And so DMGT back then was a malformation of some of the biggest websites and publishing sites in the world. They had Mail Online, Eden Standard, Metro, Pissenheads, AutoTrader, amongst others. And my responsibility was essentially evaluating how they were selling their inventory in sort of the local markets.
At that point, they had a US and a UK sales team and where they were selling direct to advertisers. But outside of those cool markets, really, they were working with sales houses. And it was my job to try and optimize yields outside of the UK and US. Yes, it was a very lucky point, I think, in reality.
Back then, majority people consuming their new and same content through websites and apps. Very different nowadays where the majority of people consume their new and same content through social platforms. But as a result, these online publications were delivering incredible organic growth. Yeah, my job was ultimately to maximize yields.
And I was there kind of around the advent of programmatic technology where I was working with the likes of Now, Magnites, What Exchange, Telaria, etc. to bring those technologies on board and monetize our audiences. And yeah, over time, through that, to the single biggest revenue line across our business, it was $50 million or so sitting day in, day out with some of the leaders of those publications and publishers, which was a very exciting time at the age of 23, 24. But towards my end of the six years there, I saw that actually organic growth was starting to tail off.
And the reason for that was ultimately, social platforms were ceiling audience. And I was very lucky to be able to meet. I then found a John Grecrations, Jane Bolding and Mel Chapman, who was at that point, I think, chief content officer. And joined John Grecrations as a COO.
And we were about 50 people. We had a bunch of big Facebook pages. And we were pushing people off of those Facebook pages on top websites where we were monetizing. And we were monetizing them, and that's where the meeting lines happened.
And yeah, we grew that business over the course of five, six years. And it was very much a really exciting story, a roller coaster, probably a better phrase, of building a modern, diversified digital publisher. So by the end of it, we had a portfolio of vertical social first media brands, twisted and food drink through to VT and entertainment, graph, and crafting. And we built a diversified model that underpin that, touching on advertising, brand content, brand partnerships, fit of econ.
And then also marking services or agency business, which we called the Wild by Jungle. And we built that business about 30 million for revenue and sold it, sort of 60 million or so EV in 2021 to a private business. And by then, I'm of exit from that business and started to have a bit of time on my hands to think about what's next. And it became super clear that the world had changed.
We are in a world filled with a fair amount of economic uncertainty and industry that's facing serious disruption. And I think the playbook has changed a little bit. Where so many publishers have been focused on maximizing the Google search algorithm or Facebook and social algorithms to deliver reach. Actually, the pendulum is swinging more to sort of verticalize, specialized media brands and IP that's sitting in the heart of it.
And yeah, it was very lucky to be able to meet Jasmine and the team and sort of see where studios vision was and where they wanted to go. And I really think they're very well placed to build that sort of cross-platform digital consumer proposition with some fantastic IP as it's hard. And so yeah, four months in now at VC studios. And yeah, very much got the bit between my teeth.
We've got some fantastic people, brings some fantastic content across the brain IP and very well placed to hopefully ride a fantastic wave as we go forward. It's really interesting because obviously we have Mel on last week's show and she talked us through the development of jungle creation. So that's sort of very neatly takes us up to date now in terms of your career and also where we're going next. So we'll touch on that in a second.
And just before we move on now, I've got to ask you, how did it go down at home when you decided to be not being biochemist? The family still speaking to you? To be fair, they were very understanding. They realized that I needed to go and do something with a bit more energy and dynamism.
I think the bigger issue was when I quit that graduate program. There were a lot of tears. I mean, I can still remember my mum, you know, how are you going to pay your rent? You just applied for one of the most competitive graduate programs and you left within a month.
What are you doing? That was the bigger issue. But we got over that. I'm excited for the wonderful thing.
There's lots of examples of people who have been really successful, particularly in the media industry of coming through lots of different interesting, very backgrounds and making that leap to a parent doesn't make any sense at all. But you're a living proof that it does. So that's great. Just bring us up to date.
We've just had the telecast digital content forum of which obviously BBC Studios was Headline sponsored. So thank you for that. But when it came to your keynotes, which was one of the key highlights of the day, you both presented your vision in terms of the state and the future of BBC Studios. Jasmine, take us through that presentation and give us some of the key takeaways for people that weren't at the event.
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I think what we're really trying to communicate with is three key things. So first of tonight's the point. We are set up with success because we are sitting with Fandoms the Law who are passionate about our amazing IP and knowing that we have brands across a diverse portfolio, we need to be able to harness these audiences, we have to deliver some multi-platform approach to go to digital. And by that, I mean, we shouldn't care about having the drive into one place.
We should know that our fans are passionate about our content, but they're going to prefer one place or one day to another place next the next day, if they believe on robots on one day and on TikTok on Wednesday. And therefore, we shouldn't have that hierarchy. And that's the second point on being really clear with ourselves that it shouldn't matter to us where we're talking to the audiences and that we want to create a universe in which every platform is equal to us and we are therefore adaptive and we go where all the audiences are. And that is something that is really defining our commercial strategy that we're sure that we'll come on to.
I think that third point is then being able to go deep with those audiences. We're lucky enough that we've got a global audience for all of our IPs and that we can entertain them like no other because we have the ability to create our own universes. So whether it be Ruby, whether it be Doctor Who, whether it be BBC Earth, you know, we're in control of that and we are able to be able to sort of create something new on Instagram within a day. And therefore, what we really love to do is to be able to go further and think about what the audience is going to want from us in a world where we create new, themed subscriptions for the audiences.
So if they want to go further into the same ability and they want to be able to understand what they can personally do to drive change, BBC Earth is well set up to do that. If you're a Blu-E fan, and I've got a lot about Blu-E in my section, and you want to understand Muckerman and Fox, which is a fabulous account on Blu-E, all these cousins who have the energy that none of us have anymore, but ultimately have created stories for themselves. If you want to know more about them, can we create a new universe on a platform for these audiences? So I think those three key things of understanding that we have these fans that empower our business, that we don't necessarily care about our hierarchy, we want to be where those audiences are, we want to create fantastic experiences for them wherever they go.
And also, we see new commercial opportunities for these audiences and fandoms that can take us into a new area as well as the descriptions, whether that be a promise or whether that be something that we haven't thought of yet. It's really fascinating the new opportunities and these almost content universes that are starting to be built across different platforms. And something you just said there is central to the approach is basically going to where the audiences are. That must have been quite a fundamental change in terms of BBC Studios for a business that has become so successful on some of the world's biggest brands, but at the end of the day, you know, born in TV essentially.
And that model to a certain extent hasn't changed a great deal over the last of the 20, 30, 40 years. But what we're talking about now is something much different. And essentially it's working with all these social media platforms and going to where the audiences are. Can you talk us through that digital journey then for BBC Studios?
How did the business first start to get involved with digital content and where we are now and where the business is going in the future? Yeah, I can take that. So I think when I started in 2018, digital was very much seen as a marketing endeavor. And I was a significant shift in the type of people they had hired for.
I was someone that had been commercial and digital with all of my career. And I had been working on significant deals and trying to make brands, creators in themselves, and working with the likes of Twitter and Meta and YouTube to create revenue streams for brands. Coming into a world where digital was seen as marketing and that you had a fantastic team who their fans themselves, you've got massive fan bases within our team who know the audience as well, know our content like the back of their hand. And there was a directive to look at what the potential could be if we started looking at digital, not just as a marketing function, but as a potential profit center.
I took that as a sort of mandate to go, okay, you know, it shouldn't just be about the money, but it should be about unlocking the potential for our audiences can do. And if we start listening to them more and understanding how they want to engage with our content, then we can create a content driven business which was seen elsewhere within the organization, the BBC Studios production. We wanted to be able to show the scale that we could have and look at a business that could be driven by our talent, our audiences, but then also going out and finding new talent and new IP. The currency problem that the BBC studios are trying to solve is also one that's also a group sort of crunchy problem as well is sort of is that relevancy issue and making sure that we do say meaningful to consumers today.
And that is very much based in lots of different areas of the business, but I definitely see a healthy amount of that challenge being sat with me, because whilst not every part of the business can say, I don't have hierarchy and I need to go where the audiences are, we certainly can. And we can show that by doing that, we can be a standard in which we can test, we can test new formats, we can test new brands, and then we can understand what the potential is for the rest of our business to look at these and take them elsewhere. I think coming on five years now, we can see that marketing is essentially an upshot and a side benefit of what we do, which is looking at a content pipeline that can drive up what we know that can diversify across multiple revenue streams. But that is still very early doors and it's taken a lot for us to move where we were in 2018 to today because we are a big business, we are complex in how we run, but ultimately it has been about setting that mandate to top down and for us to be able to have the direction, but enough of a space to test and learn, because we can't do everything that, for example, Nat did at Jungle, because we have rules, we have rights, complexities, and things like that, so we need to operate in a very different way.
But it's exciting and for me, that crunchy problem of saying relevant with audiences, maintaining that's a meaningful space within our audiences, sort of hearts and minds, is something that is going to keep me here for a while, because it's not going to be sold overnight. But I think we've a long way in five years and I hope that in another five years we'll be sitting here talking with you about the amazing global content business that we have built with new talent, new brands, and we haven't had a new innovation talk lately. What I find really fascinating about this is that BBC's Judas is a legacy business, huge business as you say, lots of the world's biggest entertainment brands. But here you are being pretty entrepreneurial actually and taking a leadership role when it comes to monetizing content through digital and there aren't many other production businesses out there in the UK certainly not on the scale that you're doing it.
Now, Nat, obviously you've come from a very entrepreneurial background at Jungle. When we look to the future of BBC Studios and how you see the business moving, what is it from your time at Jungle that you're going to be applying to the future for BBC Studios when it comes to how you're going to do things differently and also we can talk a little bit about the commercial model. I think the first thing to note is that there is an appreciation across the board at all levels that the world is shifting at a million miles an hour and there is a need to innovate. You were saying before that these were brands that were born on TV and there's an appreciation of that.
There's a knowledge now that younger audiences are consuming the majority of their content across short form platforms and there's a need to innovate to reach those younger audiences. Interestingly, I spoke in the keynote a little bit about the advent of various technologies, be it the smartphone, 5G or indeed AI, accelerating those content consumption changes and they've happened at a real, real pace and the whole amalgamation of that theme means that we're in a world now where the ecosystem, the distribution ecosystem is just so, so fractured and there is now a requirement to tell really interesting companion stories about your brand IP across those different platforms. I think the other thing to take away from that is if technology comes to context consumption trends are now at a place where distribution is fractured. I guess the key thing that we've seen massively shift is that kind of reach to community piece and I think so many publishers, I said it right at the top, but so many publishers thought that they are in their audience, right?
Like you look at old school news publishers, they had X number of page views coming day in day out and then when Google changes its search algorithm, their page use of site drops or equally, you know, if you had digi publishers that were relying on Facebook traffic, you know, they change their algorithm and things shift. I think it's just been a realisation actually, X number of followers or X number of page views doesn't necessarily mean you own your audience, you're merely kind of renting it in this modern world and so that's the big theme, right? If we're moving from reach to community, the desire now is you really need to tell companion stories across these different platforms, publish with intent, right? So you're not cutting and copying a TV programme for YouTube or equally not taking a YouTube 30 minute episode and cutting it for instant, like fundamentally publishing the intent to tell the right story on those platforms to those audiences and build loyalty and then I think that is ultimately the point of uniqueness or the true sort of value that then fuels your commercial model.
So hopefully that answers the first bit, the second question was kind of, yeah, what does this commercial model look like? Where are we going? And I think we're at a place now whereby, yeah, this sort of IP is going to be that golden thread that connects all of those different and disparate platforms, but if we can get to a point where we have meaningful audiences across these platforms and to jazz and points, we have relevancy and right to play on those platforms will be in a really like strong position. You know, the vision is we end up being able to like engage audiences across the various different social platforms, back of range from YouTube to Facebook to Instagram to TikTok.
Indeed, we recently launched a partnership with we are a sort of mindful social media app. It could be newsletters and podcasts, I think that's probably the other end of scale, right? That's more around a more sort of intimate experience, less passive, more sort of people searching you out, more appointed viewing, more sort of meaningful relationships. And that is kind of the whole circle as I see it.
And once you've got that loyalty and you've got that fandom, your job is then mobilising those fans for commercial endeavour and at the minute, and to jazz and point, every business is very different. And so you can't copy and paste a commercial model, but I think we are truly global and we have a whole host of different IP from BBC Earth through the top gear through to Doctor Who and the list goes on. It could vary significantly by brand by market, but the vision is in the world of BBC Earth, you're working either with brand advertisers and that could be talking to them, trying to understand how they want to build their brand in partnership with yours and delivering sort of an integrated content proposition. And the most obvious one could be for a BBC Earth for 30 minute long form, probably the longer 30 minute long form YouTube series where we discover really interesting things about the natural world and the fantastic ones of the human kind living on YouTube told through the lens of BBC Earth, but in concert with with the brand and aligning on values and then sort of cutting that down for different platforms and that so that could be a behind the scenes video of kind of the shoot that is on Instagram where people are discovering more and trying to understand more through to TikTok where we tell, sort of explain the videos around specific segments of that content and indeed that could then be amplified through adverts that sit across your website or there could be sponsorships on your podcast and your newsletter.
So the objective and I'm saying a lot of words here, but the objective is really to try and build this like cross platform story through your brand and then weave a brand really authentically through that. I think that's objective. It sounds like almost a mini universe per brand if you like and we talked a little bit about some of your brands and actually let's let's talk about that because you've got these worldwide recognized brands like Doctor Who and you know, okay so let's talk about Doctor Who. We've got you know it's amazing brands known around world.
I know there's a new deal just being done with Disney plus which is which is incredible. This is going to take the show wider and more international than ever has been before. But you've got all these cast of characters over the last however many years have Doctor Who's been going I should probably know this but I don't but it's been going a long time. So you've got all these iterations of the Doctor and all these periods of this show but also you've got all the villains and you've got all these amazing episodes.
So even each episode it has its own universe. So what you're talking about is putting all these characters out and building stories around them and taking those two audiences and the superfans will be you know monetizing it with them but also it has a brand building role as well doesn't it? Yeah sure I mean like we've definitely come a long way from cutting and comping our like library of long form programming down for social like this is very much about creating digital original content for these platforms. So absolutely we will have these sort of landmark TV programs that go out across our own and operating channels but equally third party institution channels as well to reach global audiences typically through TV or on demand but then the objective is to create digital original content to dive deeper into those stories and build that fandom.
But to the point that you were saying before right we've come a long way from just you know cutting on comping content and just selling ads against it right. There's a whole host of different skill sets capability experience that's required but you are truly building a universe and within each of these businesses and it does require different skill sets, different capabilities, different backgrounds and experience and it does take time to jazz and experience like to build that cast and that team to be able to deliver a really diversified profitable media business and that's the journey that we're on it's still you know fairly early days at least for me I'm four months in but the thing that I feel buoyed by is the fact that all of the ingredients are there it's now our job to kind of bring them together to make sure that you know fundamentally we can build relevancy build reach across these platforms and then bring brand advertisers on that journey with us but equally you know there is also quite exciting opportunity against some of the brands be it a top gear be it blue and perhaps further to build digital consumer revenue so that could be subscriptions or that could be clubs and it is just trying to work out when you're looking at brand matrix what does the commercial model look like by market by brand and like I said still still early days but it will be really to there. So just when we come to talking about you know the production process for all of these mega brands presumably you have digital content teams embedded almost in the wider production team or as part of the wider production team which is making content for these different platforms. Tell us a little bit about that.
Are they sort of a little settled within the team or are they part of the general production team because actually that's quite a fundamental fundamentally different approach that more traditional TV production companies smaller indies probably haven't done too much of that so far but going forward we see the direction of travel presumably that's going to be something that they need to take much more seriously so how do you create all this additional content within the actual production of the show? Yeah it's a good question and something that we have been trying in lots of different ways of achieving over the last few years so BBC studio's productions make amazing day in day out. We have tried embedding digital production teams within their teams but the structure differently they've got sort of different sort of pace and ultimately what we found works best for us is having our platform specialists that are digital natives all in one team they sit in a portion of the Twitter who's our VP of content and programming and they're there to be able to be that rich between our fantastic IP and the audience and what they bring to the table is they understand our audiences they understand the platforms they also have incredible relationships with the studio's production and for me it is less about how we are set up structurally and it's more about behaviors and understanding what everyone brings to the table so we work very closely with the production teams to make sure that we are capturing content on sets we are then taking the content that we have and adapting that for our platform but that we're also extending the story and that we have that trust from the production unit to be able to do that ourselves and we have that trust because we've worked with them for a long time they understand our expertise and they also understand that that's and they don't have that skillset they make amazing tv for whether it be channels with streaming services but they make high-end premium impactful content and we can take some of that and adapt it for our platforms but we also need to do what you said which is creating that unique digital first original content and we do that by being in charge of our own destiny and by having the relevant skill sets within our own team and we do that well we know we can do better in certain platforms and we are still we have a thriving youtuber's nest and we're working very hard on building the right skill sets in house to be able to really leverage our brands on other platforms that we are a partnership that we need and now's recently or to talk. Now it's time for Story of the Week where my guests get to highlight the tv or content industry story that's caught there i in the past seven days.
Matt what's your story of the week? So my story of the week would be about the wonderful betches being acquired by lab bible group Jasmine and I were out in New York for advertising week a few weeks back and we saw I think it's a cmo of betches presenting their business I've met the fans a few times they're a fantastic you know all female egypt team that have built an incredible digi publisher and very much focus on female lifestyle and humour and they've got fantastic business across social websites newsletters podcasting very very heavy on the newsletters podcasting piece and that talks to kind of the loyalty they have in their audience but yeah impressive business and lab bible group have gone and acquired them which obviously gives them a slightly more female skewing business but also accelerates their route into the US so definitely a story worth calling out and very interested to see how that partnership goes. Yeah well so it was an interesting development now not something that you would call as an obvious acquisition and obviously we haven't seen many acquisitions from lab bible for the last couple of years so it's good to see them obviously making you know what is what is as we say very interesting so we'll keep our eyes on that one sure yeah it'll be interesting to see how it plays out Jasmine what's your story of the week? So for me it's something that hasn't come from a sort of typical industry press it's in business fashion and this is Elle cosmetics they're viewing their robots thing they have done some amazing things recently whether it be so the brand content they've done whether it be their super bowl ads but they are really gearing themselves up to become a creative first and a sort of advertise a second and for me that is obviously the way things are not just without looking at sort of other board parts and other publishers but also working with brands whether they're working without or setting themselves up as greater in their own right I find it incredibly exciting and also incredibly innovative from the effort.
Yeah yeah I mean they've been doing some amazing work in the digital space haven't they of cosmetics and they're probably they're probably the leader aren't they in terms of brands you know having a vision and really leaning into digital and being very brave and it seems to be paying off of them. Yeah it definitely is I think there are other beauty brands on the platform so Fenty's on the platform NARS is urban decay but I think all respect to those as they're dipping their toe in and to be trying to understand what they can do and they're experimenting whereas I feel that Elle really knows their audience and they're sort of understanding what they want to do there so if it's a new experience this elf up sort of game it allows players to become start up on for NARS and their virtual areas and their theme to the companies hero products and I think it's to the goes to that point of like no audience understand the kind of behaviors on the platform and adjust your content strategy in hand they've also brought some fantastic robots creators in as well as twitch and youtube and tick-tock creators in they just are so fantastic at understanding their audience but also understanding how they can adapt to each of those platforms they're definitely the leaders in innovating within digital it's one of those ones which I'm always keen to see where what you next. Now it's time for hero of the week Nat who's your hero of the week? My hero has to be the fantastic Jamie Bolding and I'll boss and founder of Jungle Creations he's been waiting in the wings I think for the last 12 months while he considers what to do and actually last week announced the launch of Hatchat his new venture which is a sort of mindful social media app that's focused on bringing friends and sort of your closest people together and I think there's definitely a space for it is Linkedin Post really spoke to the benefits that come from bringing people together in the real world and flies in the face of kind of what could be said you know a lot of those social media platforms are coming homogenous messes of short form algorithmically surfaced content from people maybe don't know don't care to know and yeah he's definitely he's he's flying in the face of that it's a big definitely a big swing this one but if anyone's gonna do it he is and so I'm very intrigued to see how he gets on he's just that close his and friends and family round so if anyone's excited or intrigued then please get in I'm very happy to see that and happy to support him as well so here's to that all right well we'll put a link in the episode description to to that story and who or what are you telling to get in the bin that I'm currently sitting here in my office looking out at a very rainy landscape and so I'm going to say British weather can get in the bin I struggle with the shortening days and the dark nights and the rainy rainy weather so yeah that can get in the bin happen yeah yeah it's kicking in now isn't it it's really it's really kicking in yeah we all need a bit of help from some sort of one of the one of the labs on your desk right that helps you with the sad indeed Christmas is on the horizon so perhaps all those bright lies with Christmas real people's going but then we'll have to make our way through January but so be it Christmas party season is upon us as well so we look forward to that and seeing seeing lots of friends and colleagues Jasmine who's your hero of the week so I was going to go with Point Mac Marshoot is a Chief Marketing Officer at Alputee and I think obviously sort of some crossover there between my sort of my choice of story of the week but I think someone that can take risks and isn't afraid to test and really think about their revenues and their sort of their commercial strategy second and think about sort of throwing their brand and their content out to creators and their all in to be able to define what's next to that I think they have had a a tremendous mandate to disrupt the norms and shape culture and they really are going community first they've got a positive and inclusive community and they're rebuilding upon that with their their motivations yeah fortune favors the brave with Elf absolutely and who or what are you telling to gain the bin Jasmine?
oh I struggled with this one because I don't like sort of like naming and shaming I feel like naming a hero is a great thing to do because there are so many people in the middle of the entire me whether I know them or not sort of putting something in the bin I would say rather than someone or something I would say the notion of presenteeism which possibly is not something that we wanted to get out of us but I think that there is the notion that you can now adapt to whatever you sort of need to in terms of work-life balance and I think that presenteeism that maybe shows up in other industries but I really want to get that in the bin because I think there is something to be said being in charge of your industry and you deciding where you need to be during the week so sorry that doesn't follow the exact mandate but that's what I will know that's that's that's fine for a minute I thought you were going to put going in the bin in the bin which would have been the first so Jasmine and that it's been brilliant to speak to thank you so much for joining me on telecast this week it was great to have you as part of the telecast digital content forum as well Fabius I wish you both all the very best of luck with all the changes and the developments and the future of BBC Studios it's really exciting to watch what you're doing this obviously Dr. New Doctor who coming up so we'll be really looking at all the digital extensions of that amazing series so Jasmine and that thank you so much for joining me thanks Jasmine thank you so much well that's it for this week's show if you came along to the digital content forum thanks for attending I really hope you enjoy it we have the key takeaways from the event as a feature article on telecast.com right now so please check that out and we'll be announcing the next telecast event very soon so please keep rise blue for that telecast was edited by Ian Chambers and recorded in London next week I guess our Yasmin high of red bicycle and Fraser airs of tri-force productions as we discuss Black History on TV until then stay safe