Hello and welcome to the not so daily daily brief podcast by Pro Max, I am Paige Albaniak, editorial director. And today I have the honor and the pleasure of being joined by Heng Li, he is creative director and inclusive agency Bien, and David Jeffers, sound designer and founder of Quadraphonix. Hello, gentlemen, and welcome both of you to the pod. Hey, let's jump right in.
So, Heng, why don't you tell me about Bien, what it delivers to its clients, sort of what its unique selling proposition is, and what it means to be an inclusive studio? Yeah, for sure. So Bien is an inclusive motion design studio. And what we do is we focus a lot on motion design and animation projects.
We also do some live action projects and, you know, crossover everywhere in between as well. Well, we typically focus on is basically storytelling through the, you know, lens of motion design and animation. And for us, being an inclusive studio really goes back to the founding of the company. When Ricardo Roberts, my business partner, and I formed Bien in 2017, we were looking around and saying to ourselves, you know, yeah, we can create another motion design studio.
We can do great work, but what else? And that what else is what led us to form Bien is based on the concept that diversity is much needed in the animation and motion design industry and broadcast design period. So we wanted to find out, found a company on the concept of uplifting diverse voices behind the scenes and using the company as a place to do so. And that's, that's, that's who we are.
Yeah. Can you elaborate on how you do that? What kinds of things you do behind the scenes at the end to uplift diverse voices? Yeah, for sure.
So the four principle of what we do is what we call inclusive motion design or in mode for short. And what that means is that we, that's for us, that's a methodology where we champions diversity behind the scenes to create more accessible content on screen. And there are two main pillars, representation and accessibility. And for representation, you know, we know that there's on-screen content, which pretty much everyone tries to do, right?
Making sure that on screen, what if we put on screen on TV, on social would be inclusive and diverse. That's the mission everyone can, can agree on. But what we focus on is behind the scenes, the team making a work, because our top level claim is that VN creates really high quality work with a super diverse team behind the scenes. And that's very hard to do if you know that that's in the industry, right?
So that's what we really focus on. And there are many different initiatives that we, that we do. We call it an I have been teaching hyper island in Stockholm, inclusive motion design for the past two years or so. And what that does is basically to teach the next generation of designers, animators coming into an industry, the inclusive principles that we practice so that they can change the industry wherever they go.
We also have many different initiatives within the company. Like right now, we, you know, teaming up with another online school to give our scholarships. We have an initiative within the company. We call it make it be in where everyone can be creative.
So that includes producers, for example, I think that in our industry, there's a tendency to box people in what creativity is owned by creatives only. And we want to, you know, make our company a space where that can be broken down a bit, right? Remove some of the barriers and allow more people to be creative. We also have different initiatives to uplift juniors.
So either in stock with us or as a freelancer coming through the studio, what we really want to do is give, remove all the barriers, all of the gatekeepers and show them what's possible with their career path along the way. So many of those things that we do, but one key thing that we do claim is that we are a rich network studio. And what that means is basically we should act as a space where people can gain experience for their long term career, whether they're in house with us right now or freelancing or whatever that is, our studio space should be that bridge that helped them gain the experience that we can offer them and take it elsewhere. So those are just some of the things that we do.
listeners cannot see me because it's about audio podcasts, but also neither can David nor Hong. So I'm just nodding a lot. Um, it's interesting because also I think that just reminds us that the concept of inclusivity is not just about diversity, but it's about inclusivity of position or inclusivity of talent or, you know, mean, the fact that you're saying whoever comes to the table can have can bring ideas, not just the designer. Yeah.
Yeah, for example, I think a lot of times when we hear the terms diversity and inclusion in our space, a lot of people think of it as our youth focus on race and ethnicity. I think that's kind of what our minds have been trained by external forces like a culture at large to think that way. We immediately link diversity to ethnicity, but it's so much more than that, right? We consider other attributes as well, like age, gender, you know, that our industry is like 78.4% male, for example, you know, so gender plays a big role.
And when think of genders, are we thinking of LGBTQ+, you know, we think about people with disabilities. We think about ageism in industry. What happens to designers and animators when they pass their 45, ever, you know, we don't talk about it. So there are a lot more diverse attributes that we should consider as an industry for us to survive in the future, right?
I feel like I want, well, I'm leaving David hanging a little bit, but I want to dive into it just a little bit more. Do you find that it's how hard is it to go to use these principles? Meaning it's I think it's the one thing to say. It's what we're trying to do.
It's another thing to incorporate it. It's another thing to get like the 23 year old intern to actually contribute, you know, I mean, how do you how do you work at the end so that it makes some of these principles actually come to fruition and that people actually take you up on it? Yeah, great question. And David works closely with us.
So he can even attest to this. So we consider ourselves boots on the ground. That means that if it's not tactical, we're not interested. It has to be very practical, very tactical.
And we call it tactical in Moody, you know, very tactical ways that we can apply this. And a lot of times the assumption with DEI work is that it's complicated. It is politically correct. There's too much PC involved.
The way we do it is at boots on the ground, where we focus on is very tactical, simple things. I will give you an example. One of the things that we do is we apply the ICP concept of double the line into motion design and animation, basically post production. Double the line is basically you take a budget line item in your budget and you double it so you can bring on a junior with little to no experience and give them the experience they need in a big high profile project so that they now have something on the portfolio or at least they can have all the soft skills and learning from working directly with the team and take on with them to the next thing that they want to do, right?
So something simple as that and to make it even more tactical, I would say you can make that double the line as little as long as you are able to. So that's a big difference, right? We're not talking about a huge commitment here. We're talking about a very small effort to a large effort, which makes you feel comfortable.
How easy is it to are you saying double the line, right? So I mean, that's a budget question. So if you're working with a client and I mean, you can't just run around doubling things, right? Like, so how do you manage that within your budget?
Well, I would have to admit that because of our studios unique position going in and people know that exactly who we are. But I would say that the conversation with clients would be very easy. We just bring it up for an on a project when the budget comes up and we say, you know what, we can do it for X amount. But with an extra something, something, something, what you are doing is joining us in the social impact effort of changing the industry one person at a time.
Now, when that conversation fails page and the client said, my budget is my budget, we simply absorb it. And when you absorb this, I would say that it's very tactical and easy. We could have looked at this as like, Oh, you know what, we could have booked this junior for three weeks. But now because we have to absorb it, maybe a week or less would give them some experience that they can take with them.
And it doesn't make a huge hit on our bottom line. So this is what I mean by being very tactical, removing a lot of the PC and trying to make it as easy as possible to practice this. OK, thank you for giving that specific example. All right, David, I will, I want you to speak to some of that.
But later, I want you to start now. If you don't mind telling us your story and what led you, how you were led to launch Quatifonic. OK, well, I guess we'll kind of just start with my accident. I'll give you a brief rundown on that.
I decided to take like my first big, big person family vacation. You know, I had a real job. My first son was two years old and my wife was three months pregnant. And we took a trip to Curry Beach and we rented a beach house.
So other family members could come throughout the week. And on the first day of vacation, we had went out to the beach, you know, like all morning and then at the end of the day, my son is like, Hey, you know, can we go back out to the beach this evening? And I'm like, of course, it's vacation. Why not?
So we go out to the beach and I'm kind of like hanging out, planning the water and I see a decent sized wave coming in. And you know how like you can dive through a wave so you don't get knocked over? Well, that's what I was trying to do. So I dove through this wave and I didn't realize I was like kind of in a hole and I dove into a sandbar where I was standing.
It was like waist deep and what I dove into probably was like a foot deep. And that's when I broke my neck. I pretty much knew instantly I was sitting there kind of just floating in the water, just thinking to myself, please don't drown. It seemed like such a horrible way to go, you know, but luckily my nephew, he was 16 at the time, he was there and he was able to pull me out of the water to safety.
And from then on, I was in the helicopter headed to the hospital. So that's kind of the quick thing as far as what happened and how it became a quadriplegic and kind of fast forwarding through like, you know, a lot of rough times, a lot of rehab, all types of stuff. Quadriphonic came about because Ricardo, the other owner of the end, he's actually been my friend for like 33 years. We met in seventh grade and he knows like my work ethic.
We've actually worked on some other stuff before and he really just wanted to give me an opportunity to get back to work and do some things. And, you know, he talked to hung about me and me being a quadriplegic, it was kind of a perfect fit to kind of do something with the BN. And they just offered me the idea and said, Hey, David, you're good at doing music because I do like music production on the side. Why don't you give sound design a shot?
So they gave me a shot at a couple of projects, coached me along, found me a great mentor to teach me some things. And then they brought up the idea of doing a project to help brand and develop my company. And here we are today. OK, that's well, first of all, the startup accident is very rocky here.
And I'm so sorry that happened to you. And so crazy. You think you're just on vacation. Right.
But you, prior to becoming a sound designer, you were somebody that was interested in sound and did a lot of sound, but you were actually an engineer, correct? Yeah, I was a mechanical engineer. And like I said, on the side, you know, I produced hip-hop music. And Ricardo and I had like a little record label, you know, years before.
I didn't know. I thought that you got with the end because somehow client brought you together on a project and then the end said, Oh, we think what you're doing, we'll do this branding project with you. I didn't realize you had this long history with Ricardo, who unfortunately cannot be here today. Yeah.
So after your accident, what, I mean, you couldn't go back into becoming a mechanical engineer or you were just more attracted to sound or what led you to change career? Well, I've always been like a hands-on type of person. So at my previous job, I was doing a lot of hands-on stuff and I just couldn't see trying to go back just doing a desk job, you know, every day, all day. It just, this is just not in my nature, to be honest.
And I actually did some engineering consultant from home, which was just a total drag, but I would do it because I had experience. It was a way to make money. But as far as getting into sound design, it's perfect because I love Dylan music. I love Dylan with sound.
So it's kind of like the perfect connection. So when I was writing about this a bit ago, I wondered why didn't just pursue sound design from the beginning. Like, why did you go into mechanical engineering instead of going ahead and pursuing your love of sound, especially somebody who had a record label when you were very young? So what may do, why did you make that one career decision in the first place?
Society put in pressure on me to do the thing that would, you know, be a definite instead of a if because, you know, I looked at going to school as like full sale and some other music related schools, but then I decided, let me try to do the certain thing. Let me do mechanical engineering. Okay. The same shop we all follow through, I understand pretty much.
Okay. And then I got into sound design, what kinds of things have you needed to do to adapt so that so that it can accommodate your specific skills and, you know, how you need to function after your accident? And has it adapted pretty well or have you found that that's been? Yeah, it's adapted pretty well.
It's taken like several iterations to get to the setup that I have now. I actually started doing all this on iPad, which is great because it's touch green, but most of the programs are very limited to how many tracks and such that you can have. So I really worked with iPad to start and just maximize that to its fullest. And I actually ended up winning sound design of a year award for a project we did with the Paralympics.
And then once that happened, I was like, okay, this is a real thing. So I invested in getting a computer and trying to work that set up. The main thing is like how I use a mouse in the keyboard. I had developed a system where it sits on my lap.
So, you know, I would do things like find stuff on Amazon and modify it. Like my particular setup now is actually like a book table that sits on somebody's lap that I had my neighbor modify, put some extra holes in it, you know, for handles so I could pick it up. Then once I got that, you know, I had my kids help me put a velcro on it so I could place my keyboard in my mouse and my trackball on it. And I've probably gone through like three or four different iterations of what kind of trackpad or mouse that I would use.
So it's ever evolving, you know what I mean? So and then so David is on video so I can see him, but you can use your arms. Can you use your mouse and your keyboard and all that kind of thing or is that sort of modified? They're normal.
I use a trackpad and you can see it. But basically I use a stylus that goes into a brace. So I can use the trackpad. I can unpack on the keys and I can scroll with the trackball.
As far as my movement goes, you know, my hands and fingers don't really work. I don't have triceps. So the forward and back movement, you see, is really just all shoulders. All right.
And then I wanted to also one of the things that's in the brand video talks about your musical influences. And I just wanted to talk a little bit about that one of the one of the musical influences today, Dola, but yeah, just talk about your musical influences and how you're using that in your. Okay. Yeah.
Um, so basically I'm a big 90s hip hop fan. You know, that's when I was in high school, that's the music I fell in love with. And it's also the music that I would produce. So I look at sound design almost as hip hop production, whereas, you know, a hip hop producer will dig in the crates, find a record, find a sample, rework it, layer it, do whatever he needs to do to make the sound that they want.
And essentially what sound is on, that's what I'm doing. You know, I'm finding these sound effects from various sound banks, which would be like digging in the crates, putting them together how I want to create a scene. So just the way I do it is very much like hip hop production. And then, you know, talking about Jay Dilla, you know, I really love him because he had a way of sampling and setting up his drums with like almost this like offbeat unexpected abstract way, um, where it's like he's not triggering a sound based off, you know, the metronome, he's doing it based off what he thinks it should sound like, or what's going to make the imagery and the music come out.
And that's the way I like to do my sound design. So then what was the first project that you worked on with the end? It was the Paralympics project. Okay.
So you did that as your first project and then you got a big award. Yeah, we did like some little practice things in between, but that was the first real project, yes. And can you talk, can you tell me about that a little bit? Like what that project was and how you designed the sound for it?
So that was for wheelchair basketball for the Paralympics. The way I did the sound design for it, the first thing I did was a lot of research and watching a wheelchair basketball because I really wanted to get the sounds right. You know, I didn't want to just think about basketball sounds and take dribbles from somewhere. I really wanted to make sure I got the cadence down, right?
You know, the different sounds of the wheelchairs on the court. But the most important thing is I wanted it to be like energetic and in your face, just like regular basketball, like you'd see a commercial on ESPN for NBA game, you know, they're pumped up and I didn't want it to be, I don't know. I feel like sometimes for disability things, things get like a little bit downplayed or slowed down. I wanted to make sure that thing had just as much energy as anybody else or any other sport.
All right. So then you guys decided to work together to do this brand identity. So let me go back to hung now. Can you talk about as you guys were digging into what David was doing and the company he was launching, how you went about doing the strategy and the branding and the branding.
I want to touch on what David just talked about for the Wheelchair Basketball Project too, is that David, for us, David does more than just sound design and, you know, and music sometimes too. But what he does also, he acts as our disabilities consultant. So on a project like that, wheelchair basketball, I think we all know what wheelchairs look like. We all know what basketball is.
We know we can put the two together. We can do something as visual storytellers and illustrators. But what David did when he came into that project is that he brought his lift experience with him. He's like, you don't just draw regular wheelchairs.
Wheelchairs, when you are in your home, it's different than when you go outside. When you go into court and play sports, it will be different. And these are the things that that we really value his input and on that project and many other projects and not just about wheelchair but about accessibility issues overall. So, you know, David is also a consultant on that front for us and hopefully for others, you know, because a lot of times what we believe in is if you don't have the lived experience, then you shouldn't be doing things and assume things.
You should do your due diligence, do the research or bring on a consultant. But when we talked about launching, it's really came down to what David wanted, right? We worked with David on many things before. So, we know him as a person and we know him what he wants to do.
So, we did all the research. We would apply all the brand strategies to a big corporation to stare it down to one person, but also not just any person, but David and what he's able to do. And then we just kind of lean into what we thought would be appropriate for David. You know, we know that David's background is not just an artist.
He's also, he was an engineer. So, we wanted to create a brand that balances the two of those. Well, also, I think a lot of David, your engineering expertise comes into play to some extent in the sound design, right? Because there is technology involved and I don't know.
I just think it's that kind of thinking that kind of fits together. Yeah, but with a creative side. Yeah, like the mechanical engineering part that I think really plugs in is like the ability to dissect things and take the individual components that make the whole. And that's how you can make a really good sound is if you take the individual pieces and kind of break them up and bring them back together.
So, that's what it's been a real benefit to. The interesting thing to me about sound design is that I think if it's really good, I don't want to say you don't notice it, but do you know what I mean? You kind of don't like you go, oh, there's that's about something and they should be making sounds and they are making sound so great. But you know, nobody thinks about what you got to put those back about sounds in there.
You're right. Yeah, I agree. One of the things that I really and I'll post this in the story that goes along with this, but one of the things I really liked about the brand is sign was that so in the word quadraphonics, which in this, in David's case, as well, QUADRI phonics and that dot on the eyes, a little off kilter. And then you guys tied that back to what you were just saying about.
It's not about being syncopated or being not necessarily on the beat. And then, and I think also just about what quadraphonics offers, it's not like your run of the middle production design. It has a certain flavor to it. But I thought that was an interesting piece to it.
And I just wondered if you could talk a little bit about coming up with that idea and just lending that into the spicing of the identity of that. And let's see, David, you can talk about it and I'll go to home. Actually, you know, hung came up with that idea to do that. And I was just blown away, you know that I think hung has a special magic of seeing the story that is within you or that is there and pulling it to the surface.
Because honestly, I never would have thought to do that. But it was, for me, it was just perfect. It's like, OK, he's listening, he gets my story, he gets my influences. And for him to pull that out, I thought it was really cool.
Yeah, for sure. I think when we thought about his identity, once David told us about the name, we did our research and we went to look to see what what does that mean? The quadraphonic, right? And we looked into quadraphonic, we're looking to quadriplegicic, we looked into J Dilla, we'd look at all the sources that David wanted to capture in his identity.
And I think we're just more like going back to the drawing board, coming up with, I don't know, David, I think we looked at 12 or 14 different logo designs before we settled on one. And I think when when this logo or this identity was developed, it was mainly looking back at his background, like what makes David different than another, you know, sound designer out there, right? And we, I think we really lean into the methodical thinking, engineering, thinking that David had. So that's why we chose, you know, how about it, how about a good move as like the classic typeface also as a nod to accessibility, you know, it's new.
So by the way, it's like the standard to be useful for a lot of readable content. And that was at the base of our thinking. And then shifting the eye was just like, you know, this is a perfect like dot resembling a note. And then we thought about the solid O, which could be read as like a turntable because David, that was one of the big things that he really liked.
He said, you know, idea of like analogs and turntables. And wheelchair is also a circle, right? So we lean into all those aspects and try to simplify it in a graphic way to come up with the identity. And I think once we have the this down next to the other options, David, at that point, it was very clear.
I said, Oh, this, this is the one. And from there, we just looked at and say, what kind of assets when can we create for David so that he can use them in a day to day basis? So we started applying this mockup into various things. And what would this look on a, you know, T-shirt?
What would that look on Instagram if we were to scale down, especially for someone like David, we have to respect accessibility, right? If we are talking about someone like David and accessible content should be the key. So we went and developed, you know, other things like icons and things like that to go along with the brand and make it easy for him to use in the long run. David should not have to touch any of this, just kind of have it in his toolbox and just put it out there for the piece that he needs at any time.
Is that more about because David's not a designer per se, so it needed to be a little bit more turnkey than if you were doing it for, let's say, like some network client and they've got motion signers and houses. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that we design with his needs in mind first above all else, above aesthetics, above what would an awesome website look like or anything like that, right? It's more like how accessible, how easy is it for David to use this day to day?
If he decides to do something on his own, that was the baseline for us. OK, and then this is just a designer question. So now I've interviewed a fair amount of designers. But one thing I think is such a special skill that you guys have is so you get all this research and then I feel like designers also have to have the skill of listening, which isn't something you would necessarily apply to a designer and then take that and say, OK, now I'm going to put that in basically a dot being moved over an eye, you know, like you check all of that stuff at the top of the top of the this is not a marketing funnel.
But you know what I mean, like all that information is to tap and just build it down to this one tiny thing to get your idea across. I find that skill very impressive and amazing. Do you think that's something that is just innate to you or is that coming to you after working with many clients? I would be the first one to admit that I'm not the greatest identity designers out there.
But I think in this case, it's because we have been working with David from day one, knowing what he wants. And like you said, you know, listen intensely in terms of what the client would need. And we did many iterations. You know, this was like, I think the 13th, 15th, there were like four or five different versions of this that don't work as well.
And a lot of times, I think great design is supposed to be almost transparent. It should be almost like not there at all. And I think in particular case, we capture that middle ground where it's unique enough, easy to read enough. But you know, interestingly enough, I guess, to be something.
I think I'm a modest because it amazes me every time when I see a design coming from the group, like, wow, how did you boil all this down to this? You know, so I'm impressed. Yeah, I think it's I think it's very impressive too, because it's always it always comes down to just something very simple. But the amount of work that goes into coming up with that so called simple thing is always a ton of work.
So I think it's kind of an incredible skill. So my understanding is that you guys have some new projects in the work together. Is there anything there that you can talk about to use anything that you can mention? I think one thing in particular that we have been working together for the past six or seven months now is we've been working on a short documentary, actually about David.
So we just did principal photography. We shot in Charlotte in New York last month. We teamed up with a live action production company that we worked with many times before, only today. And we partnered up to produce this short documentary about David, because we think that his story is really unique, you know, and when we want the story to be out there.
So that's what we've been working on. So David, what do you think it's going to be like when you're famous, the famous star of the document? I don't know how famous, but I don't know. This whole experience has been crazy.
It's been cool. It's been like a big learning experience. And I think most importantly, like a great example for my kids, because they actually were involved in a lot of filming. So I really appreciate the opportunity.
I think it's teaching them to keep on pushing and realize there's so much out there. So And then David, beyond being in the documentary and working with the end, do you have any other sound design project you've been doing or are working on right now? Yeah, right now, I'm trying to just expand and work outside of being, bring on some new clients. I've done some small projects for other people.
But my next big push is composing. And now I'm just trying to learn that craft and get better at it so I can move into that space as well. All right, I think that will cover all of that. You guys, thank you both so much.
I appreciate your time. Thank you. OK, and I'll talk again soon. Have a wonderful day.
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