Hello, I'm. Hey. Dominiac, Editorial director of Promax and this is the not so Daily Brief podcast. Today I am super happy to be chatting with Emily and Justin Nardone, who are executive producer and creative director respectively at their own agency.
Fellow Luca. Welcome you guys. Thank you so much for being here. So I'm start with Justin and why don't you run me through what your background is as a designer and motion graphics artist and then talk me into how you launched Beluca.
I moved out to Los Angeles in 94, went to architecture school, got my bachelor's of architecture degree and right while I was in architecture, I was realizing that I wasn't going to do architecture. But I love. Wait, why, why did you decide not to go to architecture? Well, it was a very design oriented school, it's called Zyric and Southern California to do architecture.
And so they didn't even teach AutoCAD. So it was like really like more design oriented. So we started, you know, back then they started using 3D and you know, getting into Photoshop and stuff like that. So I just got drawn to that.
But I love architecture and I love, you know, just the workflow of it. And also it like taught me how to look at things visually, compositions, lighting and shading. So I really got drawn to like visual effects and motion graphics. So I got into a couple of VFX jobs when I graduated, but then I realized this was too technical, so I then immediately went into motion graphics and 3D.
So. So I was doing a lot of After Effects and a lot of 3D and so just was contracting back then and was working with all the big shops like Drika, Branding school startups, Trail Park Transistor, Logan, Ant Farm. So I was doing like Oak show opens, broadcast packages and then got into art direction for these companies too. Hold on one second.
Did you learn how to use like not autocad but all the programs you need to know for motion graphics in architecture school or did you sort of self teach? I actually self taught. So I got a computer while I was in architecture school. And it was really tricky back then too because now it's easy to go online.
But back then you had to either know someone or you had to have access to the software. And you know, there's nothing, no tutorials, expensive and it was slow and yeah, very expensive. And so yeah, so I basically did my thesis in Maya, which is the 3D program, basically taught myself how to do it. And then same with After Effects, I just started picking it up and then after Effects existed back then.
Yeah, I know this is like the 2000. Yeah, 2000. Early 2000. Because I feel like desktop publishing and that all that didn't really happen until what, like the mid-90s?
Yeah, so. So right around the time you were in school. Yeah. And you know, back then, like three programs weren't.
They were on machines called SoftMaje, which were $200,000 plus machines. And so it was just only the big studios had, you know, like the Pixar, DreamWorks and there was no classes. So there was. It was really a tricky field to get into.
But I, you know, it was persistent and got into it. Yeah, that was basically it. And then, so I was from 2000 2010, I was working for a lot of those, you know, boutique shops. And then I then had to go back to where I grew up in Connecticut for family reasons.
And then while I was there, I didn't think I was gonna be there that long. But when I was there, I was like, what am I gonna do? So I knew someone over at ESPN that I used to work with from la and they realized I was back there and asked that I would be an architecture. So I became an art director in Bristol, Connecticut and didn't think I was gonna be there that long, but I was there until 2015, throughout that process.
At first it was a little frustrating because very corporate and wasn't from that background or used to it, but it was a great learning experience because I could see, you know, I had the boutique side and the background of that, but then I could see the corporate side, how the two like were so different and how they had to relate with each other. So for me, it was a great experience. And so I learned so much throughout that time. I actually became the person that they would have in between with the vendors out in LA and bring all the projects into ESPN creative sources.
So it was great knowing both sides of that. So after five years, I decided to leave ESPN and do anything. That's when I started building. Wait, hold on one second.
What's the different. Like when you became an art director, how did that differ from what you were previously doing? Well, before, when I was art directing in Los Angeles, I was actually doing the 3D, the design animation, you know, with the teams of animators and designers. When I was in bsdn, it was, it was more of like overseeing working with outside vendors on the creative working.
You know, I was actually pretty hands on at ESPN because I wanted to, but there's a lot of, you know, creative directors that actually don't do any 3D or motion graphics over there. So they just work with the vendors who actually do all the work. So that was a big difference. But I was persistent and was like, no, I'm always going to be on machines and doing it.
I think that's hard because I think this happens to a lot of people. When you move up in your career, you actually move out of what you. What it is you actually like to do. Yes, exactly.
And that was it too. You know, like, the only path I could see staying there would be becoming more of a management position. That's the last thing we want to do. And then when you decided to leave and start by luca, which was very brave, did you also move back to LA at that time?
No, we. I was still back east for a little bit and then so it was like I was contracted doing stuff for people that I knew out in LA and people that I knew in New York. It was like doing, you know, jobs for Arizona ic It was doing jobs for. I was still contracting with ESPN but at the vendor.
So it was. It was nice. And, you know, at first it was pretty scary, but then Emily and I met and she can tell you a little bit about her best. And then did you start at like, event in Connecticut and then you guys moved it out to la?
Yeah. Let's talk Emily. So when did you come into the picture here enters Emily. Yeah, so I had just started.
I had left New York. I'd also just left my job because I was kind of in the same boat and wanted to do my own thing. So I had started contracting on my end too and started working a strategy agency. And that's when Justin and I had met.
So I was in New York, he was in Connecticut based. And we just started being like, oh, well, my clients need video work and your clients need strategy work. And so it just kind of was serendipitous that those two work out together. So.
And then during COVID we decided to just move our business out to LA. Oh. When Covid started. So in 2020.
Oh, okay. Okay. Crazy people. Why did you decide to do that?
Well, my dozen was always going to move back here. Sorry. Okay. Yeah.
The plan was for me to always move back. Being back in Connecticut, I was there because my mother wasn't doing well. So I kind of, you know, she passed. And so there was actually, when she passed, you know, there wasn't very much reason to be in Connecticut.
And when we met, we were basically like working remotely prior to Covid. But then when Covid hit. We were like, okay, this is. We could literally be anywhere now.
And so we then decided, hey, let's get out of here. Decided to move to Beth, California. Emily didn't have huge experience with Emily late, and I knew it very well. So it was a big step for, for her to move out here.
But it's been pretty fun since. So was it hard to move in? Like, was it hard to do the things you needed to do to move? Oh, yeah, definitely.
And you know, we drove cross country and you know, every state that went through was a bit different. Yeah, I did a cross country trip during COVID and it was very strange. We went through Vegas and it was so strange. So it was strange.
But I would say it was also, I don't know, it was fun. Like, it was like, oh, it was great. Yeah, it was fun. It was just weird.
Like Vegas, for example, we weren't on the trip or anything, but it was just kind of deserted and weird and like hard to get food and just. It was weird. Well, yeah, when we moved out to last, when we moved here, you know, we had a boat and we were in LA was pretty serious lockdown mode. You couldn't even like, you could barely pick up food places.
And so which was drastically different than some of the places that we drove through. So it was. That was a little difficult. And also Emily's first experience in la, if you'd be driving through Venice and it'd be like auntie or Santa Monica, I'm like, yes, it's weird because it's not how you remember things and so.
But yeah, it's very similar. Like, it was just so quiet and it was, you know, you know when things are gonna pick up. So. Yeah.
And like, how do you like LA now? I love it. I think I got. I got really lucky with.
I would have never had an opportunity be in this industry, in the entertainment industry. So I think I'm just loving that so much and like everyone in it and the opportunities that come with that, it's has been really, really. I don't think we would not because we didn't make the transition to move after necessarily. So I'm really glad we did.
But then did you. When you decided to move out, when did you decide, okay, I'm gonna join forces with Justin and we'll be by Luca together? I mean, it was pretty much as soon as we met each other, honestly. But yeah, it's working.
But yeah, our skill sets are. Our mindsets are very similar, but our perspectives are very different. And so we look at the world in very different ways, but very similar, if that makes sense. And so it just.
It was just like two creatives meeting each other. And, yeah, I think it was just. It was very natural that those two things came together. You, creative meeting each other and deciding that you should spend 24 hours a day, seven days a week with each other, doing everything.
Yeah, super normal. When you say you see the world similarly, but differently, do you want to elaborate that on that a little bit? Justin, speak to this too. I think I'm a lot more critical and he's.
Justin, what would you say you are? Ellie's definitely more strategic and, you know, really thinks about the, you know, the needs of the client and the aspects of what they're looking for. Meanwhile, I'm the same side. I'm looking creatively, like, in my head, visually, what they're looking for.
So. And then we sort of talk about each one and we're like, okay, this is her take on it. This is my take on it. And then we start looking at weaving things together and how to.
How they connect. So, yeah, I think we're both hyperintuitive. We just look at projects from completely different perspectives, which I think makes for great storytelling. We can say, but why this and why that throughout the process?
And because we are with each other 24 7. Like, we do that all the time. I just think it's interesting. And I really think of Justin's creative aspect as, you know, something that I have.
And so I really look up to that. So that's a good transition into. Let's talk about that. How you do work, like the project comes in, and how do you guys work together through the project to sort of decide how to approach it, what's the strategy, what's execution, etc.
Just sort of walk me through what that looks like. I think it depends on our client. One thing we pride ourselves on is not being a typical agency. When I was on the strictly corporate side, I would get really frustrated that agencies had a template and tried to fit you into a box.
With our. With our team at Bella, we explore our clients and are wide open to where that may lead. We're heavy on strategy at the start to get the story right. I also come from a tech background, so there's this quote I love.
It's fixing a problem in development costs 10 times as much as fixing it in design, and 100 times as much if you're not trying to fix the problem in a product that's already been released. So upfront Strategy is super important for our work and for our clients budgets too. Obviously you need to be agile through the process going forward though. But we always start with the strategy, figuring out the why, what are we doing, what are we doing this for, what's the big picture and how it can stand out, what's the new story we can tell, how can we get buy in.
And then once we get that strategy down, which is a lot of my part and process, then it moves over to the creative process where Justin does his magic and Justin become. Yeah, and then it's, you know, it's basically like throughout the strategy process and figuring out the needs of the client, as it should be and you know, coming up with solutions and creative solutions and looking at the bigger picture of, you know, why they, why they need certain things or what's their issues that they're having and then coming up with creative solutions to that, which a lot of times they don't even have to think about those things. So it's kind of nice to sort of bring up ideas, whether it's new technologies that working with that they didn't know about, whether it's that type of video to get their feeling across animations. That's when we sort of dig deep and look at the bigger picture and then figure out, you know, how we can sort of.
Yeah, and that, that goes back to, to how Justin and I work together also. Is that a lot of times like how, how we came to be, where it made sense for us to work together was I think we're both always looking for like, what is the bigger picture for this client and what can we do for them. So it just naturally leads to like, oh, well, we know technology and here's where we could. This or this could be a good storytelling moment.
So even though we're just doing a marketing package, it would make sense to do a video package with it. So that's kind of where those things intertwine, overlap. Yeah, that's a bigger, you know, another reason why we sort of join forces was, you know, she was working with clients that didn't realize, you know, oh, you can actually do AR missions and then vice versa. I was working with clients that didn't realize we could do like strategy or, you know, sort of tech work.
And so that's when we started overlapping and then it was like, hey, you know, like, let's just join, collaborate with joint forces. So, which is nice because a lot of the clients will come to us just for one thing and realize, oh, you can do. There's so much more you guys can do. And then it kind of creates this great relationship.
So. Yeah, and one thing I want to touch on too, that Justin brought up earlier was where he, when he was getting to be at a high level at espn where he was kind of getting bored and wanted to do more of the creative again. I think we're both like that as well, where we're front facing and talking to our clients every day, but we're also working on the projects as well. So I think that that's something that kind of differentiates us too, is that we're talking to the client, but also creating the work and going back and forth in a very agile way with them, which actually creates a pretty quick timeline because we're, we're not going between, you know, eight different people.
Yeah, it's nice like once because we're the ones actually doing work. And when products get bigger, we bring in people that we know and work with so we can. So it's. But we're always sort of like the people that are directly in contact with our clients and which is great.
We have the final touch on it. Yeah. And it's like, you know, there's no like male people, which is nice. And so the, the creation creative is always like dead on with what we're talking about.
So there's no loss of, you know, communication. Yeah. So that's one of the benefits. And we're kind of like a lean team, but we can work on larger projects and bring people in.
We have shoots we have to work on. We have groups of people that we work and trust to do shoots. And you know, I also have a background in video as well, so I know how to work cameras and also so I can relay that stuff and be able to communicate what we're doing as opposed to just sending a group off to shoot something, which is really nice too, for doing anything video wise. We'll shoot it, I'll bring it in and then actually go on doing all the editing or bringing into after effects or doing whatever we need.
So it's really nice to have total control of that. Do you find that the clients that come to you, do they have a sense of how they want the project to be produced? Meaning do they know, okay, I want this in live action, or I know I want an animation package or do you find that they just are like, here's my goal or here's I want a thing to promote a thing. And then you guys come in and say, okay, actually, I mean, how much do you End up shaping with ask is.
Or do they come with a really specific ask? It goes. It goes both ways on. So certain things, like depending on the sports stuff.
If we're doing a bunch of sports designs and graphics and animations, it's pretty like, hey, come up with something super creative. But we really want 3D here. Or if it's something like show open, they're like, this is the idea we want. We don't know if we want to do it like live action.
We don't know if we want it like 3D or if we want all just, you know, editorial. So that's when we come up with solutions and say basically do like storyboards for some options and different styles and then be like, oh, this is cool. So that's. It goes hand in hand both ways.
Sometimes. Sometimes they're super specific. We don't want this 2D. We want a 3D.
We want really like X, Y and Z, make it look cool. And then there's other things where it's like, yeah, we're trying to tell this story, we don't know how to tell it. And so that's when we come up with different solutions with. So it's definitely paying on the client and who we're working with is always different, but so it's always fun to keep you on your toes.
Yeah. I think something that differentiates Belloc a little bit from other agencies out here in la. We definitely love working with networks and we also work with corporations. So I think that there's a big difference between a network coming to you and saying, hey, we need to do this open, and here's your parameters.
So obviously we follow those parameters for that. But with corporate, I think it tends to lean a little bit differently where they say, hey, here's our goal, here's what the board needs to can you help us tell the story? And so that it's a whole brand package you're kind of putting together for them. So those can be a little different.
And I would also say, Justin, you can talk to this too. But with the networks, while we love doing that pitch, one of our. One of our goals as a network is to really be a partner so that we can get in there and start telling a bigger story. So, you know, we did a pilot for a network and from that we ended up doing a bunch of the technology that was going to be on the full show, and then we started doing the next show after that.
So we really like to get in there and work with every single one of our clients. As a partner, that's really our goal. It's not just the one offs. When you say technology in that context, what do you mean?
Justin, do you want to talk about what you had worked on for the show? Yeah. So there's two things when technology is also like when we talk about that it's. Emily comes from a tech background as well.
So like backhands development for like website work for the show that we did, it was a dating show where they were, they would take like the biometrics of people that were on first dates and take like heart rate information, people dilation information. They had all this tech stuff and so they're taking all this data but they didn't want to visually show it. So when people were watching. So we came up with solutions to take the data into After Effects and actually have it be accurate.
So we're creating these like sort of biometric animations that could get triggered basically like real time. So we were trying to figure out how to do that. So you know, one solution was we could try and do it with Unreal. And then that got a little too tricky.
So then we started testing it in After Effects and it actually worked. But then the client then wanted and everything was changing literally online. They didn't know exactly how we could do this. So we had to always come up with solutions and ways how we could treat that.
And then they also wanted to have it almost be interactive with the viewer so the viewer could get information or go to the heartbreak or check different, you know, people's biometrics on the fly. So we then started figuring out how that happened. So we were working with some developers as well to do that for the show. Normally you wouldn't go to a motion graphics production company.
That is my thought. I'm like, how do you put this job? This seems not. This seems about right.
But okay. We first started, the whole start of that was just to create a really cool show open with footage of la and they have this almost like this sort of biometric guy who's floating around. And so we would track, we did like kind of like tracking stuff to like pretend like a woman was walking past another guy. And you know, for people dilation, like you can see things tracked to our eyes.
So it kind of like a Minority Report type feel to it. So there's all this tracking and so we did all that and then that's when the development of the show started looking like, oh, how do we now execute this and make it actually real? So we're working with a Group of advanced narrative at Warren Brothers for this. And they were really like people that were involved really into technology and using, almost using, not just like creating shows, but creating like shows based off of, you know, information that could be used.
Technical stuff. So it was like kind of like they were pioneering and trying to create their thing and they didn't know how to do it basically creatively. So we started coming up with solutions. So it was like a long process.
We really supposed to work for them just to get show open. But I mean, it was almost the whole year that we worked with them. And do you find like that happens? Well, this actually takes me sort of in to talk a little bit about what you guys did for Promax, because that was not a similar thing from a technology point of view.
But like, you came in for one thing and you ended up doing many other things. So is that something that happens often? Yeah, and I think that's what we thrive on. Like, we want that you thrive on it instead of being annoyed by it.
No, we. In almost every single client, I think I could put on three fingers where it didn't happen. But with almost every single client, we are there for the long haul, kind of. So, yeah, Promax was fun in that.
Yeah. We were just coming in to do the events and then there was the ask to integrate both established members and the new members. And so we came up with this idea of connections. And especially in a time where we're coming out of COVID it made a lot of sense.
And then, yeah, as you know, that just. It kind of expanded into this whole narrative. And then we got super excited when India and Asia also wanted to harness into that, because what we were trying to do was connections and saying that you can have similarities. So our look and our whole vibe was one thing and holistic.
But then to acknowledge that different regions could also be different from each other. I just think during this time that's so important that everything can be holistic. We can all be one, but we can also be different and appreciate those things. So when India, Asia also wanted to start using our work, we were really excited about that.
Yeah. But, you know, to go back on, we started doing one thing. We were just basically supposed to do some designs and a video at the end, and it just. It turned into like, hey, you know, we can help you with this.
It was supposed to be in person too. We were designing like, like interiors for the walls. Yeah. And like, what can we put on this door?
Or what can we do down this hallway? And then even our Graphics that were in the beginning static. You know, we came up solutions like, hey, we can create like, almost like livable gifts with some of the stuff. So you can throw them in your newsletters and emails.
And they were, like, super excited. So then we started doing all that. And yeah, like I'm saying, then it turned into a much bigger need. And yeah, it ended up being globally.
Globally. That's not the word. Globally. Applied.
Yeah. And then, you know, then you incorporated that global feel into the. Into the whole package. Yeah, and it's interesting too, like what you're talking about with the biometrics and then the tech and how Destiny books have always been into the tech.
How have you found in the past couple of years? I mean, the industry's. Obviously tech is dramatically changing the industry, but in different ways than on the creative side. But how are you guys finding that, that the advancement of tech has changed what you do and how you work?
For us, it's been great. Even with AI, a lot of people are on the fence with it and its usage and how quickly it's getting developed. But we use it as almost like a tool. Like any one of our tools that we use, it's coming up with certain ideas.
And in the end, you're still gonna have to create naming things and bring them into 3D and make things happen. Yet at some point it will advance to that. But even if when it does, you're still gonna have to come up with ideas and solutions. It's not like you can just whip up something super cool creatively from an AI software and then have it make sense and have it have exactly what client needs.
So it's like for us, we use it just to maybe spark some ideas and to come up with things that maybe we didn't think about or that we were trying to think about, but visually, you know, we could shape it differently. To me, and also, like, there's the software. AI software has been around for years. I mean, it's been from here for over 10 years.
You know, in DaVinci, like, has, like, tracking information where you can do rotoscoping and, you know, take things out. That's been happening for a long time. People been using that and now Photoshop with Firefly and all those, like, tools that took so long to do, you know, paint things out. Now it can be quickly and create some ideas and spark more creative solutions.
So for us, we find it as, like, just some more tools that we can benefit from. Yeah, it's interesting how this is what I've heard from a lot of creatives about AI and it's interesting how like some people view it as such a threat. And I don't know, maybe that will play out at some point, but I wonder if it'll. I don't know.
I think it's like what we don't expect is more of the issue than what we're worried about. But Emily, do you use like, as a writer myself, I've messed around a little bit with some of it, but, you know, I feel like it all. It doesn't work as well for writers as it does for visualizing. I kind of use both.
But for writing, it's all very basic. And I'm like, this is not. I think here's my take on AI, where we are right now and who knows where it's going to go. Like you said, who.
But to Justin's point, I think ideation is a really good part of it. So if you're going to write, I think you already need to know what you're going to say and where it needs to go. And so if you can put that in and get more ideation off of it. But you still need to know what your end result needs to be.
And I'd be interested to hear what you think about that as well. And then the other thing I think about AI is I just think at the end of the day, and maybe I'm. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I think at the end of the day, people still do want human connections and it goes back to our promax thing. I think that that's what people need.
I think we saw that during COVID when we couldn't be together. I think that's what people need and they want human stories. And there's just a part of AI right now where it can't tell human stories. It can only tell refurbished stories or repurposed stories that, you know, it has an algorithm to produce.
I think that that humanity part of it is missing. And again, I don't know what will happen come one year, but that's what I feel from that. And like telling stories and using it for like content creation, I just think that there to even input what you need to get out of it, you have to, as a human know exactly what you want to get out of it. And I'd be interested in your thoughts on that.
No, I mean, I agree, like by the time you know that, you might as well just write it yourself. But I mean, at this point it doesn't have a personality. So if you have Any kind of personality you're imbuing, it's not helpful. But I do, from a visualization point of view, I do think it's interesting.
And there's been some ways for me as a person who's not a designer but sometimes needs to add a background or something, I've been like, this is awesome because I can do it myself and I don't need a. I don't need to like find a designer or I can just make a picture look better, you know. So that's very helpful. But the other thing I was going to say.
Oh, I think what my husband says the same thing, Justin, which is that there's been AI in these tools for a while. You know, like in terms of backgrounds or adding things and you know, in vfx, a lot of that is that. Yeah, I think we're going to get into a copywriting or you know. Yes.
Some legal stuff pretty quickly too. So we'll see what happens there. No, I think that's where we're at. And I mean I think the strikes have certainly highlighted those problems.
Okay, last question. And sometimes this is hard to answer because they're in the works and you can't talk about them yet. But are there any cool projects that we haven't mentioned yet that you've either recently worked on that you have coming up that you want to talk about? Yeah, so right now we're doing all the.
We work with a group in Washington D.C. and they do all their sports, you know, graphics packages. They just sold 9 mill sports and they acquired NBC Sports Washington. And so we are doing a show open with a woman who's work at ESPN.
It's kind of like a, like a E60 type show, like documentary and she's the host of it. So we're doing the whole package for that, like showbin, all the on air stuff, which is pretty cool. And again, this is some people that I work with at espn. So it's small industry in the sports world.
Kind everybody knows everybody. We're also doing all the, all the watching wizards like graphics too. So they have all these, they're called MIA days and they have, they bring in all the athletes and they have these massive LED walls. They're almost like a.
There's like five walls and they're. The players can walk down. And so we did all the visuals for the stuff that's on the walls. So they have a huge camera jib and they can, you know, shoot up, down, go across.
And so we're doing all that now. So that's always fun. And then we do. We do all the NHL stuff for them too, so the Washington Capitals as well.
So that's. I would like that on Sports Guy. It's fun doing that kind of stuff. And then we also are just starting a show up.
I won't technically talk too much about it, but it's for fx again. We're sort of up in the air. It's going to be all vfx stuff, compositing 3D mapping with green screen stuff, or just straight motion graphics after effects, but that'd be pretty fun too. Yeah, that's cool.
I forgot to ask you guys one question that I really wanted to know the answer to, which is, why did you name your agency Bella Luca? When I was out in la, right before I left Quebec, I had two English Bulldogs. One was Bella and one was Luca. When they passed, it was kind of like.
It was always like my password and it was always like, you know, certain things, like Justin does hold everyone who's password. I'm so the magic different now. Yeah, not bad. Anyway.
And Bella, you know, so Bella is beautiful and then Luca is bring her light. So it's like beautiful light. So it always made a nice connection. It always meant something to me.
Not just fancy dogs, but the meaning of it. I just thought it was. It was just fitting when I was trying to come up with. With ideas and I was like, well, Luca stuff.
So that's where it all came from. Oh, good. I'm glad I asked. That was a good answer.
All right, well, thank you guys so much. It was great talking to you. I'm very interesting. Yeah.
Thanks for having us. Thank you so much for all the work you've done for Promax. We really appreciated it. We had so much fun doing it.
And it was so much fun working with everyone from there too. Yeah, everyone was. Yeah, everyone was so great to work with. Well, and we're still using it, so it goes on and on.
All right, have a great day. Okay, bye, guys. Bye. Bye.
That's it for this episode of the Daily Breath podcast. If you don't already, please subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you have comments, questions, or ideas of conversations, please feel free to reach out to [email protected] and as always, thanks for listening.