Episode 24 | Welfare Fraud and the Constitution

In this episode, our hosts — Kathryn Johnson and law professors Ilan Wurman and Joshua Kleinfeld — take on a topic that has taken the country by storm over the last several months: welfare fraud. They go over some legal developments involving the Trump Administration's efforts to stem the fraud, including intricate administrative law questions involving "final agency action" and whether agencies may act on political pretexts. They touch, as always, on activist judges seeking to thwart the administration's efforts. They also go deeper and debate the constitutional roots of the welfare system. Ilan argues in his new book that Congress does not have an independent power to spend for the general welfare — and that social security and most other federal welfare systems are probably unconstitutional. Josh thinks Ilan's argument is crazy. Whos' right? And Ilan, Josh, and Kathryn debate whether welfare saps the foundations of a free society. Join our hosts as they engage in an unusually robust debate among themselves about these topics fundamental to the future of America. And don't forget to buy Ilan's book, The Constitution of 1789: A New Introduction, which is now available online or in bookstores near you.Be sure to LIKE, SHARE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE to rationally BASED!Subscribe to our Substack!New Podcast Episodes every Thursday morning, find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or on YouTube!Follow us on social media on Instagram, X, Facebook, and TikTok!