Episode 3: Opening Doors, Not Checking Boxes: Rethinking DEI Hiring Practices

In this episode of Belonging@Haas, Brittany Jacob has a conversation with MBA student Camila Duque about diversity hiring pipelines in MBA programs and at universities. Camila shares her journey through pre-MBA programs and her experience landing a position at McKinsey.Brittany then consults with Rachel Williams, a DEI executive, about her reactions to Camila’s segment, and on her perspective on diversity, equity, and inclusion in the workplace. The conversation aims to break down misconceptions and highlight the importance and benefits of fostering diversity in business environments.*Belonging at Haas Podcast is produced by University FM.*Show Producer: Ryan Jewe, Race Inclusion Initiative Developed in partnership with the Haas MBA Student Government AssociationShow Links:Brittany Jacob’s LinkedInBrittany Jacob’s InstagramCamila Duque’s LinkedInRachel Williams’s LinkedInPew Research: Americans and affirmative action: How the public sees the consideration of race in college admissions, hiringHow DEI Can Survive This Era of BacklashToppling the Myth of MeritocracyThe Myth of Meritocracy Runs Deep in American HistoryEpisode Quotes:Landing the job at McKinsey and overcoming self-doubt and imposter syndrome [Brittany] Did you experience any comments [or] negative sentiments from others about diversity recruiting programs when they found out that Cami got McKinsey?[Camila] I didn't really experience any negative comments or any comments at all that were top of mind. But that's also because I didn't tell a lot of people outside of my close friends and the people from the consortium that I had got in it. And I think one of the reasons why I didn't tell people was first, because I was afraid of negative backlash, and what you're alluding to that people would question the reason why I got into this was because I participated in this program and not because of merit and people would talk behind my back. And then this is a general sentiment from all MBAs and everyone that we feel a lot of imposter syndrome, and I do feel that, and I do struggle with that a lot and the self-doubt of do I belong here? Am I good enough? And I just wanted to tune that out because I knew that the reason why I got in is because I worked my butt off and not because there was any help that I received. It's just a different pipeline to get into the same type of job. And so that's how I reframed that for myself.Camila’s vision to break stereotypes in professional spaces[13:56] We need to start breaking stereotypes that have traditionally been placed upon people that are not from the U.S. and work on getting through to the fact that we are just as capable as everybody else. Do companies lower their hiring standards when recruiting candidates through DEI initiatives?[16:50 ] The companies are not going to lower their standards, and they're not going to lower their brand just to tick a box. If they were, then the company would not be the way that they are, and the success that they've achieved would not be because of that. When you think about lowering the bar, the thing that we're not seeing here is that the bar is already broken, in a sense. It's not even about raising the bar or lowering the bar; it's like you need to fix the bar, and that's where the pipeline issue comes in. When you address where all these people are coming from, where all the talent is coming from, you realize that it's not just Ivy League schools that have the best talent. Sure, they have some talent, but other people have that talent too. And so it's just like reframing where they get that from. The interviews are the same; they’re not telling managers, “oh, give them a break” or whoever partners are interviewing you– the cases are standardized across. It's not a matter of easy or difficult. It’s like, okay, you have an opportunity because we see something in you, and that’s how you are able to get in. Businesses that ignore diversity won’t last a decade.[26:35] Rachel Williams: What I try and tell leaders [is] that you should care about diversity because it is paramount to your business. If you make a product that you want everyone to buy and I don't know anyone who's like, Oh, I only want a small portion of the world to buy this. Most companies are building products that they would love for every single human on the planet to buy because that means more revenue. And if that is true, then you absolutely have to have a diverse workforce, a diverse team building your product so that you're making sure it is inclusive of all of the perspectives. And when you have a diverse team, you're going to come up with really innovative and creative ideas that are going to impact your product and impact your bottom line. So, I say, if you're not interested in diversity in this particular moment as a leader or as a company, then you're absolutely planning to be out of business in the next 10 to 15 years.