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Get it? Join the 15,000 companies using Vanta to prove trust. Go to vanta.com slash com. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from the Vox Media podcast network.
I'm Cara Swisher. And Cara, this is Scott Callaway, Equinox member. Our first topic. No, we have to talk about that.
I'm very depressed. Why? We'll get to that first. First, we're going to talk about the most depressing story, obviously, which was a man shot and killed 22 people in a shopping center in El Paso, Texas, at a Walmart.
In fact, and it was one of the several shootings this week. There were others in Gilroy, California, and Dayton, Ohio. We're talking about this awful topic. There's a tech angle, the police say about half an hour before the El Paso shooter opened fire.
He posted an anti-immigrant, anti-Hispanic manifesto on Achan, Scott, have you ever been on 4chan, or Achan, or any of these sites? You know, I haven't care. And I barely, I don't really even know what they are. Can you give it a brief overview of what they are?
Yeah, what happens is these sites, a lot of people have been sort of shoved off of other sites. And so they coalesce around a couple of these sites, one of which was started by someone who wanted a full freeze, but 4chan was not free speech enough, and so they went to Achan. And the guy who actually found it once it closed down is he thinks it's negative for the world and negative for the people who use it. But it's a place where they can post these manifestos and trade and hate, and so you can say anything you want.
And so it's used for these killers, as havens for killers, to post their opinions about what they're about to do. Anything they should be shut down? Yes they do, yes they do. I think they're just havens for killers and racists and everything else.
And I don't know how you can shut them down, but I don't think that other companies should be supporting them. There's a lot of companies that support them, essentially. One of them, which was CloudFlare, which is an internet infrastructure company, is really a security company. On Sunday the company cut off serviced Achan, a move that was only done once before for white supremacist site, the Daily Stormer, if you remember.
At first, CloudFlare was saying it wouldn't do anything this time. The guy who runs at Matthew Prince was a very staunch free speech advocate, but then it changed its mind and critics have been asking why is it so different than Christchurch or any of the other awful things Achan has hosted in the past. So it's a really bad situation. It's a really problematic one.
Let me just play this. I loved to get your thoughts two years ago on my old podcast, Tomb Bear's Ask. I interviewed the CEO of CloudFlare, Matthew Prince, who has done the shutdown. This was after they pulled the plug on the Daily Stormer, and even then he was deeply conflicted.
Here's what he said. You know, I analogized to a pre-internet world where if you imagine that Ma Bell is listening in on your phone calls and decides at some point you're talking about something that doesn't serve either their political, moral, or economic interests, and they unplug you from the phone network, that doesn't feel right. I think we need to have a conversation about if we're going to regulate content online, where is the right place to regulate it. And on the son of a journalist, I believe deeply in free speech.
That's what we talked about around the dinner table. I think it's one of the things that makes this country so powerful, but it doesn't have the same force around the rest of the world. What does, on the other hand, is an idea of due process, an idea that there are a set of rules that you should follow, and you should be able to know going into that. And I don't think that the tech industry has that set of due process.
And we didn't follow principles of due process in this case. Yeah, so look, I have a backstory here. A few years ago, 10 years ago, I was put on the board of Eddy Bauer by the debt holders, or some of the equity holders, and it was about to go in a reorganization. Eddy Bauer, bad merchandise, dusty brands, poor execution, the thing was going into bankruptcy, but there was still value there.
So we went through this auction retry and get a stocking horse bidder, and then find someone to buy the firm. And at that time, the highest bidder was a firm that just does licensing, meaning that they would fire everybody, and then just license the brand and produce goods overseas and... Crappy goods, right. Well, not always, but typically not of the same quality as a vertical manufacturer.
And 1,200 people are gonna lose their jobs. And we decided to reopen the bidding process to see if we could find someone to buy the company and hold on to most of the employees. And the hedge fund manager, a 24-year-old, gave me a great lecture about the invisible hand, called and said, you're not doing your job. You have a fiduciary obligation to shareholders full stop.
And so you're not there to pretend you're a social engineer. And I called a guy named Stuart Stein, and I think it's important that young people always have a kitchen cabinet of people on their shoulder when they're trying to deal with business or personal issues and this guy was part of my kitchen cabinet. He said, well, actually Scott, when a company goes towards bankruptcy, it enters what's called the zone of insolvency, where your fiduciary obligations aren't just the shareholders, but they're to the debt holders, and to the community and the employees. And I think slowly but surely companies have moved towards this notion that their board of directors is fiduciaries for stakeholders, not just shareholders.
And what I find in business and our society is that we have these kind of comfort absolutes, where when we're faced with difficult decisions, we just go, oh, first amendment, or oh, just represent shareholders. And the reality is the world's not that simple, and you have to take into mind other stakeholders. So I find that when people wrap themselves in a first amendment blanket or a censorship blanket, what they're really saying is, I don't want to have to think about nor defend this really hard decision. And I think in the case of these organizations, especially something like H&F, it's what you say it is, unless it's a trap, unless it's a venous fly trap for domestic terrorists or pedophiles, I say that companies have a responsibility to have a thoughtful conversation around whether they want to engage in supporting that organization.
So I like the fact that we're moving away from what I'll call these comfort absolutes. Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's a really difficult problem. I mean, what's interesting about Matthew Princess, he just told me, he's an interesting man, and I had a very good interview with him, but he's very typical of these Silicon Valley types, where they don't want to take any responsibility for anything and they want all the benefit.
And they don't want to make any hard decisions. And one of the things that he said in this quote just irks me, and in fact, I wrote a New York Times column about it, was that he goes, finally, enough is enough. And I was like, hey, dude, enough has been enough for a very long time. And they said, we need to start a conversation about online, and I'm like, we've been having it.
It's just that you refuse to do anything about it and you're in a position of power here. And so it was sort of the whole encounter that irritated me. And it's so typical of these tech companies, which are just literally aggregating responsibility at every step of the game and benefiting from them at every step of the game. And these things have impact.
And the other thing is, why do Daily Stormer, and not this one, why do this and not this one? And so they really have to have some rules that they keep in place where these sites are, either they're toxic or they're not, and they're going to support them or they're not. And that's, I don't know. It just seems, and they make it needlessly difficult.
We're going to, as consumers, is going to have to recognize that occasionally they got it wrong. And your time's got their headline wrong. Because they have to make discretionary calls around this stuff. And discretionary calls means that you have to say, all right, if they're making discretionary calls, they're occasionally going to get it wrong.
I know Matthew, he came and spoke to my class. He struck me as a pretty nice, thoughtful guy. And by the way, just purely distinctive, the ethics here. It was a brilliant move from a branding standpoint.
I mean, he's got, he is now, or Cloudflare, is now seen as this kind of righteous, starts your household name. It was a brilliant move strictly from a PR standpoint. But going back to the gun issue, and I promise myself, we keep promising each other, we're not going to delve into politics. Go right ahead.
I mean, obviously, you hear these just these gripping stories about a woman who's bleeding out of her head because she's just shot in the head. Face time, your husband, and the only in her last words I need to get to my kids. I mean, the unimaginable horror on this kind of first circle of victims. But I mean, you'd want to somehow figure out a way for Mitch McConnell to feel the disaster, the empathy, and the stress that it literally creates across all parents.
My kid's school now has a guy, as of six months ago, on campus, sitting around, looking at his phone, that has a sidearm. And he just sits on campus, hoping, and waiting. And I call him, okay, you're the first guy to get shot. That's what you are, if something terrible happens here.
But it's really, it's not to protect the kids. It's to protect the parents who are in a state of hysteria right now, and the amount of stress. It's like, I'm going to nantucket this weekend. Of course, the moment I decide to go to nantucket, the beaches are cleared because there's a great white.
My son. Yeah, my son in his wetsuit literally looks like a dinner bell for Shark Week. And all I can think about is, okay, how do I not let my kid into the water? And I'm just totally stressed out.
The amount of stress that guns cause his parents across this land is extraordinary. And obviously, the victims, those people's lives in the lives of the families in the room, but the amount of stress and heartache this is causing across America is sort of a, it's just incalculable, it's just so strange. And I'm curious, I don't see a lot on, okay, well, what can be done? We're sort of all outraged.
But what, if you today decided, I mean, other than registering to vote or making a donation to the service member who's running against Mitch McConnell, it's like, what do you do? I think if I was doing it, you'd ban assault weapons. Well, okay, but how do we get there? You and I are all right.
How do we get there? They did it in the Clinton administration. They did it, they did it, they did it. They just let it lapse.
And then the shootings went down considerably. Like, no doubt, it works. More guns, more deaths, less guns, less deaths. It's pretty straightforward.
We don't have a monopoly on mental illness or video games. We have a monopoly on mentally ill people with access to weapons of war. I mean, it's a straight fucking math. Well, to anybody with them, honestly, it's just ban us all weapons to start with.
You know, we're able to, I mean, Trump was able to ban bump stocks, you know, executive order. You know, I don't know. It's just, the whole thing is just, what happens is they rely on our ability to get exhausted by it and not like be so exhausted that we don't just, and that's the issue. And they're right.
And they're right. And they're right. Keeps happening, keep forgetting about it. So that's why I find these people ultimately so cynical about what's happening.
Now, the same thing is this, the thing we made a joke about Equinox, and it's got a weird pivot to make. But it's the same thing is that this guy who runs a Steve Ross, he owns Hudson Yards, which everyone pours in New York apparently. And he also owns a number of brands that are, you've talked about this issue. I was thinking about you a lot.
Blue Stone, I think it's Creamery, he owns a pure yoga, soul cycle. Yeah, pure yoga, soul cycle, Equinox. You use Equinox, I use soul cycle. And he is giving, after the week of the racist trans, tweets by Trump, he's still giving this giant Hampton's party, the most elite place on earth for President Trump.
And it set off a flurry on the internet yesterday among people who use these things. Because most of them are the elite, wealthy people who did not know this was going on. And then people did. Thoughts?
Well, so let me ask you, and I'll you go first and I'll go second, does it affect your affinity and likelihood to patronize soul cycle? I know you're so sorry. No, I'm not gonna use it anymore. You're done.
Really? Wow. It's a discretionary purchase. I know it's expensive, it's plenty of money.
And so it's like, I don't need to do it. And even though they tried very hard to see Meli Whelan, who I like quite a bit, had put out a statement that said, we don't agree with this, and none of the money goes to politicians. He's a passive investor. He's the owner.
He makes all the money. So it's kind of really hard. The same thing, equinoxity, equinox is used by crazy amount of gay people and stuff like that. The whole soul cycle is supposed to be for diversity in women.
And I put it akin to Rose Macquarie of Patagonia, which has been selling its environmental record and in turn they do lawsuits and stuff like that. And you buy into that brand because of what you like about it. Suddenly was an oil driller in Christine areas of the wilderness. You just don't have to, you don't have to buy that stuff.
I don't know. So I respect that. And I think you're walking the walk. I'm going to continue to go to Equinox.
My decision is going to be, I think, indicative of most consumers and that as I talk about the game. And then I want that little black dress for $999 from H&M, which means somebody in Bangladesh is working for poverty wages and the supply chain is just polluting like crazy. I do think there's a distinction between something like Equinox and SoulCycle and Patagonia, who rests its brand on being overtly socially conscious. I think Equinox and SoulCycle are trying to be progressive, but it's basically just a gem where there's more good looking people wearing more Lululemon so they charge of premium.
No, but seriously, it does bother me. I agree with you. It's just, it's like they sell and sell and sell. They have nions and they sell the idea of what they are.
And in fact, their runner is completely loose. I'll go in further than that. I find with progressives, I think that we're very good at accepting people who don't look like us. We're not very good accepting people who don't think like us.
And 49% of the nation voted for Trump. And if someone wants to host a fundraiser for him, I don't think we should be committing economic war against that person. I just don't, I'm going to work my ass off to get Trump out of office. I'm going to give him money.
I'm going to do my part. But I think bipartisanship has to go places. If you really think of it as a belief as opposed to just a word, I don't think you can commit economic war against people who happen to support the president. And I don't like them.
I think they're stupid. I don't understand them. But there were people who hated Obama and Hillary. And does that mean that they should not work with my companies?
Do they have a moral obligation? Boycodding is an age-old tradition. Everybody, it's been going on, you know, remember I need a Bryant and they weren't Jews with gays. And so this is not an unusual thing to do.
Like Chick-fil-a, for example, super anti-gay. My kids eat it all the time. I tell them what it is. They make a decision.
They think the chicken's the best chicken ever. So I don't eat it. So I think people can make individualized decisions without what I think the left does all the time as we constantly are the ones giving in and saying, we'll try to be bipartisan when the other side just never does. Look at the behavior of Mitch McConnell.
He's just not gonna pass it. So if he was feeling bipartisan, I think it's an important thing. He would do it. And so we get played constantly on the left by the right, constantly.
Now that I've outed myself as someone who's gonna continue to go to Equinox, I have to enter the fitness protection program. Get it, the fitness protection program. You go ahead. I just think everyone should be able to choose.
That's all. People can make their choices. And I think boycotts are an age-old tradition. The right does at the left does.
You know, when a lot of people didn't want to go to Disney because they had the gay days, fine. That's your choice. I think it's good. 100% get it.
So you, the apple card, I'm gonna pivot to something happier. The apple card. Can we talk about the apple card? Yes, please.
Because I've been using it for the past couple of days. Really? And what do you think? I haven't used it yet.
I've just downloaded it. Yes, they gave it to me early. Yeah. Did you get on the thing?
Yeah, that's right. I haven't used it yet. But I got on it because I know Cara Swisher. That's right, exactly.
It's great. It's great. What do you like about it? And I tell you where I think it came up short.
Let me do the negative parts, which is apple pay is not available everywhere. So I don't have the physical card with me. Yeah. Because it hasn't been delivered.
It's a titanium card, which I love, because you can also kill people with it apparently. It's like a weapon. But it's this very sharp titanium card. I don't have it yet.
And so where it is not available, which is several places. I've noticed it's available in a lot of places, but not as many as I thought. And so that's a problem. Not being able to use it.
The thing I like about it is no numbers on it. I like the instant ability to see things and where I purchase them. I like the financial information they give in this app, which is really well done. I like the fact that they're not trading on your information, that they don't have it, that it's encrypted.
I like that their business isn't marketing on top of making money from interest rates and late fees and stuff like that, which exists on all credit cards obviously. And I just trust apple. I think that's what it is. I trust them more than other companies.
Yeah, I thought that was a great summary. Another incredible brand move is they're going after privacy. And the individual who helped me get signed up said were all about simplicity, transparency, and privacy. I thought it was interesting that they're incorporating privacy really deftly into their core identity.
The one feature you didn't mention that I really liked, or I really liked, is that when you get your bill, it uses artificial intelligence to badge the location. Instead of having some funky merchant code that you can't figure out where did I spend $200, it says I spent $200 at this gas station in Ontario, wherever. And as a map, however, I asked the individual, I said, okay, this morning I was literally looking at my Amex bill and I saw all these charges on iTunes and I wanted to know, are these legitimate, what was being purchased? Because I'd like to know it's my kids using my iTunes account, but I want to know A is a fraud and B I want to know what they're buying.
And I said, well, I haven't been able to use that given it's a closing network and you more than anybody know if they're downloading door, they explore something else. And she's like, oh, well, we haven't figured that out. But which I think is bullshit. In other words, my sense is transparency.
Transparency is great for them until it might reduce their revenues. And the thing that would be easiest for them to tell you what has actually been purchased, they've decided, oh, we can't figure that out. I agree. I had an issue with that too.
But go ahead. The other thing that's I think really interesting is the security features where your numbers is not a number can change because credit card fraud, I get contacted probably two or three times a month via text message saying was this charge yours. And if it's less than 20 or 30 bucks, I just say yes, because the idea of having my credit card shut down and then re-registering across all the different sites is such a pain in the ass that I've decided a tax worth paying is to have a little bit of fraud on my card. A little bit of fraud that doesn't say that's where they test it and then they buy a big thing, like a boat.
Yeah, but here's the thing. When they say they're calling you for your protection, no, they're not. They're calling you for their own protection because you are not liable for more than 50 dollars. You're not liable for any fraudulent charges on your card.
So when they call you and say we're going to shut it down and make it a pain in the ass for you to re-register everywhere for your protection, no, it's not. It's right there covering their own ass. You're not liable for any fraudulent charges. Perhaps.
It's really simple, which is what I really liked about it. When we get back, we will talk about Facebook, Scott. It's time to take a break, and we'll talk about wins and fails and our predictions for the week. We'll be back after this.
I'm Estelle Herndon, and this is America, actually. We're all talking to each other to see what we do wrong, what we do not see. I'm in Washington, DC this week to interview Ruben Geigo. He's a Democratic senator from Arizona, and he's been thinking openly about running for higher office, but he's recently running some hot water because of his connection to Congressman Eric Swalwell.
I have to learn from this, and I will learn from this. But for me, it's not a 20-28 question. It's about what it means to be a better first boss in my office and also a better senator to my constituents. This week on America Actually, we asked Geigo about predatory behavior in Washington, his plans for immigration reform, and more.
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So Scott, we're back. Are you there, Scott Galloway? I am. Are you working out at Equinox because you're a class trader?
We need class traders. They're calling according to non-gear to Dottis. I heard that. Yeah, I'm a class trader, I guess I am.
So, Facebook, we were due to discuss it earlier. They're rebranding its Whatsapp and Instagram to be Whatsapp by Facebook and Instagram by Facebook. Speaking of brands, I'm using the Apple Card because I trust Apple. Oh my God, now I wasn't using Instagram and Whatsapp.
No, I'm really not using Instagram and Whatsapp. This is it. I think it's a fail. What do you think?
Yeah, my mind was just blown. Because typically when you have brands with this type of equity, you don't want to pollute them and right now Facebook has some baggage. Instagram and Whatsapp are pretty clean brands. And Facebook's an amazing brand because of its ubiquity and it does have a lot of positive associations and people interact with it every day.
But there's some baggage there, right? Facebook has been dented and banged up and creating sort of this master brand or sub-brands, turning Whatsapp and Instagram into sub-brands. It usually would go the other way. So, this doesn't make business sense except that what it does is it does two things.
One, it out. Smart Zuckerberg is clearly thinks Facebook is kind of the lead dog here and it's really all he cares about and he doesn't have nearly the affection for the other brands. He's willing to damage billions and brand equity. But two, I think there's more Machiavellian than that.
And that is, I think he's trying to again conjoin the triplets and make them one entity such that if and when the DTC and the DOJ get their act together and come and start talking about breaking them up, he can say, well, if you're trying to separate us now, you're going to kill the entire baby. So, they're trying to pull things together such that they can claim, well, the spaghetti can't be unwound otherwise you'd kill the entire company. So, I think this is a prophylactic move against antitrust. What about as a brand move?
What is your thoughts on the brand? Oh, stupid. It's really stupid. These are such powerful brands.
These are global brands. Each of these brands is probably one of the 20 or 30 strongest brands in the world right now. And the idea that you would make them less distinct and create that, do away with that diversity of asset base is just, it's just, it's heresy in the world of branding that you would take three amazing brands and motion together, which is just weird. It's like, I don't know what the equivalent would be.
It's like Lexus, or Toyota's saying, we're just going to call it the Toyota Lexus. I was like, well, this has a distinct identity and a ton of brand value. Why would you start polluting and confusing both brands? So, it makes no sense in a business standpoint.
I do think Mark Zuckerberg is a brilliant businessman. And I think he's decided that the brand equity that they will sacrifice is outweighed by his ability to claim that they're one company and you can't break us up. All right. So, I think it's a fail.
What is your fail the week? I agree with that. I know why he's doing it. I think it's a bad idea.
That's my fail. I think it was, you know, I think the Facebook brand, it's a lesson in really poorly managed brand architecture. It just doesn't make any sense. And I hope you have to see the DOJ send a letter going background saying, just because you've decided this is one brand doesn't mean we're not going to come and break it up.
Should we decide that's the right thing? Yeah, I think that was one of the things. Obviously, also this week, Facebook wrote to Congressman David Sizzling that TikTok is a serious competitor. And then in 2018, it was installed more times than either Facebook or Instagram.
And obviously, Sizzling who's going to be on the podcast soon is one of the Democrats who's thinking about whether Facebook should be broken up. So, they're now trying to make a competitor. Like, that's, again, that was a fail to me. Like, oh, Facebook, you really have to stop.
Like, I see what they're doing. But they're definitely making moves because, you know, the government is moving in on them. Yep, 100%. What's your fail this week?
Fail this week for me is the activity around Google, the accusation that Google's traders again, they continue by the Trump administration via Peter Thiel. And they were pushing the idea that they're investigating Google because they discriminate against right-wing employees. And they focused on a right-wing employee, Kevin Sernikke, who, of course, was on Fox News, which got Donald Trump's attention. You know, and then he started on the suppressing negative stories about Hillary Clinton and trying to undermine him.
And I just think this is just, I am not a defender of Google most of the time, but in this case, it's ridiculous. It's a ridiculous attempt to do business via politics. Well, and this got overshadowed again with all the mushroom clouds and dumpster fires everywhere. But supposedly, Trump is considering an executive order around these platforms an executive order to try and diminish or to try and reduce the amount of conservative bias.
It's like, okay, what's that going to look like? I mean, you want to talk about our head start spinning around First Amendment and censorship when the president's going to put out some sort of executive order. It's not going to work. Yeah, I can't imagine the mechanism.
I just don't see how on earth that would happen. Well, the fact that he's doing, it's like, between Fox News and Peter Thiel, this is just insanity. So, again, to defend a giant company like Google is not my easiest stance, but in this case, I think it's just that executive order to do that without any proof whatsoever, except for this idiot who worked at Google who, you know, whatever. I'm sure it's not great to be there at the kombucha social hours, if you happen to love Trump.
So what? So what? Work somewhere else or just say your piece and then argue with people, but this idea that he was discriminated against just because he doesn't, you know, there's such talk about like snowflakes. There's just snowflakes.
I don't know what else, but that's what they can use, the term snowflakes. So that was a fail for me. Got it. It's not going to happen, but it must be very concerning to Google.
It has to be very concerning. Do you have a win? A win. Yes.
Actually, it's something I tweeted about last night. The Beanie Friedman, did you see Booksmart? I love Booksmart so much. I'm so sorry.
It didn't do better. But she's an amazing actress. She just holds the screen like nobody else. She's also from Lady Bird and Booksmart.
And she's going to play Monica Lewinsky in Season 3 of American Crime Story about Bill Clinton's impeachment. And Monica Lewinsky is one of the producers. I just am so excited about that. I don't get excited about that much, but I think it's great.
Nice. You have to see Booksmart. What's your win? I was trying to take a win.
And I don't have a win. I feel like it's my right not to have a win. My question is, it's strange to me when 9-11 happened, there was a pretty large cohort of people that had serious anxiety or couldn't fly. I never understood that.
I was here when it happened. I thought, okay, if you know someone that was hurt, or actually no one was hurt, people were murdered. Very few people got injured. They had survived.
They were killed. But it sent a large portion of people into a funk, right? Yeah. Which is understandable.
But I never really understood that. You lived in New York and you weren't in a funk? Everyone knew. I saw the buildings come down.
I mean, I was right there. I know that sounds terrible, but I just thought it was obviously tragic, but it didn't put me into any sort of depression or causing anxiety. And this shooting, I don't know if it's because I'm getting older, but these shootings this week have really sort of rattled me. And I'm trying to figure out, is it the age?
Is it having kids? Is it finally developing an overdue sense of empathy? What is it about events? And I would love to find the premiere cycle.
What is it about certain events that you're not close to have an impact on you versus those that don't? But it feels like this one was different. I don't know why. Was it for you?
Has this like rattled you? No, it's just an ongoing feeling of depression over the fact that this is, I don't know if it's depression corrected that this just doesn't end. It gets ratchet and ratchet up and you are constantly pushing back on what is, you know, racism like that, you know, and then you have a group of people like, I don't like Tucker Carlson, for example. Here we go.
There we go. He's on fishing. He should stay fishing. And we're just like, there's no such thing as this.
And when it's so clear that it is, you feel like you're being propaganda, being manipulated. You feel like you're living in Soviet Russia. Yeah. And you know how I address and fix my depression?
No. Equinox. Here's the thing, Cara. As a species.
Compromised. As a species. We are happiest. Emotion and surrounded by people we love.
And I want to give a shout out. And as you said, you still have back fat. There you go. There you go.
But you know what? When I go to Equinox three times a week, I look 53 and 7-8 nude as opposed to just 54. It's working. It's working.
But shout out. If you're feeling depressed like me, it's really easy. Get outdoors, exercise, sweat with people you love. That's where we are happiest as a species.
But not an Equinox. It's like, as Kristi Teigen said, I'll meet you at the library with weights. I'm going, I'm going, boogie boarding with my eight and 11-year-olds, truth be told, we might be chum. We might be a little tasty snack.
Oh, by the way, what great timing. I can't turn on a TV and see a great white shark eating the shit out of a seal that looks like a little boy in a wetsuit. I'm a mess, but I'm going to go into the water and go boogie boarding with my kids as well. It's like the most people on the world have a worse life than you.
Any predictions this week? Oh, shame me. I feel so shame. Oh, my God.
I'm enjoying my life. Yes. So, you know, there's immigrants down in Texas that are being mistreated, but I'm so upset for you that you can go. I'm so mad.
Anyway, what is your predictions? I don't mean to Equinox shame you, but I think I will for several weeks. I was talking about stocks that I think are going to get cut in half, but the stock that I really like now, and I'm looking at, if you will, I'm thinking about, I only buy stocks that I can give to my kids, is a stock we've talked about. I think a stock to watch is the real real.
I think this thing is a juggernaut. I think if you look at some of the companies that have created tens of billions of dollars in value to monetize these follow assets, whether it's cars, apartments, and the real real is, I think that it could be something. I think this could be, if you will, a $30, $50, $100 billion market cap company, and I think it's built some moats around it. I don't think they're competitors of that strong.
There's a network of fact, explosive growth using the internet, and they've also similar to what Uber's done, but in a better way, I figured out a way to assemble a group of humans or organic intelligence. So my prediction is, we talked about Beyond Meat and Cut in Half, and I got a bunch of crap on Twitter for always being debited down, so I think real real is going to do really well. I think it's in Julie Wainwright. I covered her for many years, but she had several companies for this, including Pets.com, where she got killed, and what didn't really make her recovery for a long time.
I've known her really well. She's actually coming to Code Commerce in New York in September, so I'll be interviewing her there. But I've known her for a million years, and this was an idea. I put up the email.
She sent me when she started it. She was, I got this kind of interesting idea finally, and talked about it, and said, you should come visit our warehouse when we start doing it. So I'm really happy for her that this is work done. It does meet a need that is a nice, clean company that does exactly a very helpful thing to a lot of people.
The whole idea of clothes. I'd like to talk about this next week, the idea of actually owning clothes and how you move what you own around. I'll be writing about that next week, whether you can rent everything Scott, but it's a great company, right? She's a really terrific, interesting, and one of the few females CEOs in a tech-related company.
I'm going to make a little prediction. The Disney stock getting cut because of the earnings and stuff like that. So I think Disney's going to do just fine, and I'd be really interested when they roll out this, you know, they've had a bad history on the internet. So I'm really excited to see what they do around this Disney Hulu, ESPN stuff, and how well they're going to do it.
We'll see. They're really great in content. They have seven of the top 10 movies. I think the worries about them are premature.
100%. I like your prediction more, and I don't know if you saw, but yes, they announced they're moving towards this grand bundle. They're bundling Disney plus ESPN and Hulu, ad supported Hulu for what? Exactly $12.99, the same price as Netflix.
So they're moving towards this grand bargain, like offering, which is absolutely the way to get the way to go. But yeah, I like your prediction more. I was off 5% after the earnings call, because let's be honest, this bundling and recurring revenue bundles are just extraordinarily expensive that I agree with you. I think it's going to come back.
They have not had much success on the internet. I've written about all of that. They had dig and everything else. And they had to think all star wave.
They had all kinds of, they just had them. They've never really been that successful in internet offerings. But I have to say, Bob Iger has been early to it. He's been trying at it.
And I think he's, he will get it right if there's any media executive who will get it right. I think it will be him. 100%. And where are you this week, Kara?
I'm on a cave with the sharks. And I don't go swimming that much. So I'm totally safe. I also get the Bill Simmons podcast.
I was trying to compete with all your podcasts you're doing with other people you're cheating on me. So I cheated on you with Bill Simmons, who was brilliant. And also John Lovett last week. So I was around.
I know, but that's like, okay. I go play tennis with my friends and you go to Wimbledon. Bill Simmons and John Lovett. We're going to interview a presidential candidate.
You're saying that. Stop teasing me. It's going to happen. It's like my dad, but I always tell my mom he was going to buy her a rabbit coat.
That was a luxury item in the Galloway household, a rabbit coat. We're still waiting on that rabbit coat. You're going to have a rabbit coat, Scott Galloway. I'm going to get you a rabbit coat.
What's the point? I'm an atheist. I'm economically secure. I have a quarter of the people who love me.
What's the point of behaving? You're better at Muhammad Ali, Kurt Cobain. My heroes all have one thing in common. Circle slash behave.
All right. Okay. No. Have a beautiful time.
I'll talk to you next week. Try to be careful when you swim and try not to wear bright colors and kick with your little feet. Sharkbait. Sharkbait.
You know what? We have done so much crap to sharks. I'm so glad. It's terrible.
Well, there's a big pushback against shark week for being assessments. On the bottom line is for every individual that's bitten by a shark. About 100 million sharks are killed by humans. Yeah.
We've fucked with sharks. I feel like they're tired of it. In any case, I don't want anyone to get bitten, obviously, but sharks have had a harder time than I think people have most for the most part. We feel for the sharks.
We feel very lefty this week. Yeah. Anyway, today's show was produced by Rebecca Sonones and Eric Johnson. Eric Anderson is Pivot's executive producer.
Thanks also to Rebecca Castro, Drew Burrows and Nishat Kerwa. Make sure you subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts. If you liked this week's episode, leave us a review. If you have any suggestions for what you want to hear us talk about on a future show, probably we won't listen to them, but send us an email Pivot at VoxMedia.com.
Thanks for listening. To Pivot, from VoxMedia, we'll be back next week with another breakdown of all things tech and business.