Incredibles 2

done properly podcasting is a heroic act done properly not here nope nope no we're a couple villains here that's what we are a couple rapscallions you know what that was what you've shown what a great job Brad Bird does as the voice of Ender Mode I'm not being mean I'm just saying it's not as easy as it sounds to do a funny voice I think that wasn't and for the listener at home apparently it's not as easy as it seems to knock a cup of ice onto Ben's mixing board two little chips of ice it's fine it's fine it could have been worse a Dunkin' Donuts with nothing but ice directly onto a mixing board yellow card oh there we go this is what I like we're gonna get regimented we're gonna get serious about this podcast oh there's gonna be a card system because we're gonna collect like eight red cards David I have been avoiding having this conversation throwing up red card I feel like you have gotten too laxed too loose oh yeah that's what it is because of your wild erratic behavior this podcast has gone off the rails and we have to start regulating it okay so Ben's institute of card system that is never gonna bite me in the ass starting on this episode cards will be handed out for infractions I expect to have a goose egg by the end of the year a goose egg in terms of what do they call it bowling yeah is goose egg bowling no it's an egg that comes out of a goose I mean like not a spare what do they call you get nothing in bowling I expect to have no cards that's my point I don't want to go on about this too long because that could get me an infraction I don't want one no cards for the record David has one yellow card like a gutter yeah a gutter I don't know hi everybody forget to call it a duck oh my god it's like you're cruising for a card right now watch yourself fucking brought up the United Kingdom already why is that weird it's the world hello everybody my name's Griffin Newman David's him I'm filing papers here like a serious newsman which is funny because my name is now going to be Griffin Newsman thank you this podcast this podcast I've been listening back to episodes because I've been filming a TV show which I don't should do and so I've been listening to these episodes from months ago without recording new episodes and it is astonishing how much I don't clearly pronounce any of the words in the introduction I just barrel and of course the main series is called The Podcastables yes we're looking at the representographies I just said all that yeah of course clearly main series on the films of Brad Bird and this is the final question mark I'm teasing something later I'm teasing something that we'll reveal later this is The most recent Brad Bird film a film so recent it's hot off the press it's breaking books off the records as we speak biggest opening weekend for an animated film biggest Monday for an animated film biggest Tuesday for an animated film probably the highest grossing animated film ever made right like I'm assuming it's following the dory path so it'll beat it it's zooming past it I mean Disney is going to have like three films gross over $500 million domestically within four months that's insane that's the thing they released the giant flop and they're just like whatever it wasn't a giant flop it was a moderate but that was the thing looking at the schedule last year it was like Jesus Christ Disney is Black Panther Infinity War Solo and Incredibles all coming out within like four months they're going to have four billion dollar movies and so they have three and I was talking to a Disney person not that long ago and I was like but then after Incredibles like yeah there's a little bit of a gap right between that and the Winnie the Pooh movie and they're like no it's Ant-Man like three weeks later and I was like great that's going to make a ton of money yeah this just never ends and I think I want to go on a record here I think Winnie the Pooh is going to break the opening weekend record for a movie written by a former I think you're right I think it's also going to smash the Pooh universe I don't know yes you're right you're totally right the prior record is I don't know what like Listen to Phillip probably opened like 200k I don't want to misrepresent don't get mad at me oh you know what I forgot about Trolls oh that's right his Trolls Listen to Phillip opened at 23k so if anything I was overinflated in two theaters I think it was going to clear that you think so you think it would be fair enough this is Incredibles 2 it's burning out the charts but what do we think about it because we're connoisseurs of context and we've been digging into this bird filmography or at least we did dig into this bird filmography four and a half years ago we're like interesting could be good who knows we're literally like speculating on the quality of a movie that just like posted a trailer don't we in the Iron Giant episode comment on Disney having just bought Star Wars what am I going to do with that property yeah I've actually appreciated listening back to our bird episodes which we did record a while ago because yeah it helped me think about this movie yeah certainly certainly but it is weird as you said when we were recording these episodes there was like a teaser trailer for Incredibles and now the movie's here I think you like it a lot more than I did I think so because you ranked it below Finding Dory on the twitter.com here's the thing and I saw that and I was like but Alec Baldwin here's the thing I like Finding Dory a lot more than most people so I think people saw that ranking and were like oh god he hates it that much which is like far from it I think it's on the exact same tier as Monsters University and Finding Dory three movies I like a lot I think are solid interesting sequels to like perfect movies right I think right I mean I think we have and this is the thing I was like Pixar rankings to me this is the third best Pixar movie ever that's insane right I mean but like that's basically I like Toy Story well yeah can we be very clear about that sure let's be frank okay sure okay and then you know I think Finding Nemo is really pretty I like the Pete Docter movies like by and large but I don't think I love them I like them a lot and then I really like WALL-E I was like there's one other Pixar movie I really do think is terrific that's WALL-E it's called WALL-E it's got a couple of it it's got a couple of it let's be frank young rabbits in love right I obviously I come at this from a very different angle from you because I'm not just looking at these films within the bird canon but also the Pixar canon I'm very interested in the art of Pixar as a company we've talked about a lot in this mini-series you have? yeah and you know the thing I find frustrating about them right now is I'm very interested to see at the time we're recording this Pete Docter was just announced within the last 48 hours to be taking over Pixar seems like an appropriate hire he's institutional but he's I don't know I feel like he pushes to make interesting things I don't immediately see what will happen next with him taking over I can't immediately imagine what the next five years will look like what do they got coming up Pixar? well it's like a kind of a question mark Toy Story 4 they hired a new writer two months ago so we've read most of the movie that thing which we'll get into has been pushed back a lot they've gone through many writing teams he dropped out before getting pushed out of his own company so Josh Cooley who's just sort of like a Pixar career man he's like a good Pixar story guy he's co-directed a couple of their films but then there's Dan Scanlon who directed Monsters University has an original film that's set in a fantasy universe that still hasn't officially been announced but they have two untitled films in 2020 I think one of those is supposed to be the Stan-Lenovee and the other one hasn't been announced another one for 2021 and then two more Disney just claiming dates which they might replace one of those with Mulan or whatever it's like a chessboard for them just making sure they have all the prime sort of like tentpole dates it's a big question mark the one thing they keep on saying in interviews is because people complain about how many sequels they've made recently looking forward Toy Story 4 is the only sequel Pixar has in development right now they claim that there's a state original films coming up because they don't have a lot of obvious sequels they could do now I mean I guess they could do like Finding Marlin I don't fucking know doing Incredibles 3 seems more viable than any of the other well Incredibles 3 it feels like a movie that actually should exist because these movies feel a lot more like there's this big sword being told whereas like if they made a Finding Dory it would be like the ocean we gotta find something it's like Finding Dory ends where you're like I can't wait to find out where this goes no and I was one of those people who was really angry when they announced Finding Nemo when they announced Dory I was very angry because great ending and I was just like book closed put it on the shelf done was angry about it hearing it's Finding Dory that just sounds like a dumb flip and there are things in that movie that drive me crazy the first 30 minutes suck Finding Dory I do go like you know what I think they actually found some good angles to it and I think they came up with some things that actually deepen the first movie in an interesting way which is the same thing I like about Monsters University it's not super necessary but I think they found the most interesting sequel they can make I just can't remember anything about Finding Dory I really can't pick six sounds like you have a bit of a Dory problem there and before we get into this movie did you get the joke I was making memory issues okay now take 27 maybe you should have the inside out emotions help you with that one because they have the memory balls you remember that Ben just bleep that out for his sake what do you think of Cars 3 well here's the thing that I find interesting David you too you know where this is going to go Commissioner Commissioner do I have to answer the question will I get an infraction for answering the question the fans are baying for him to answer this question right now is that what it is I literally couldn't even remember it took me a second because I didn't want to get a red card for mingling my own joke I don't think any of us would remember I just think the big Pixar problem is that people talk a lot about how Lasser kind of created a boys club environment there which he literally did in terms of just not letting women rise up to higher positions of power but the other problem is he has his old friends that he brought with him and he did not incubate new talent he did not incubate his old guys and right he struggled to they did have they have that system where Unkrich is a co-director and he gets kicked up to direct Unkrich would have a toy story and most of those guys didn't rise through the ranks like Bob Peterson who was one of the big story guys and co-directors forever developed a dinosaur and got pushed off of it Young Pinkovo was a similar thing and there are a lot of guys like that there's a little sinker swim over there yeah it's a Silicon Valley company and there are all these guys who have been there since like 1995 and you also have a lot of guys like Doug Sweetland who was one of the best animators who did Presto and everyone's like when are they going to hand him a movie he's been there since the beginning when are they going to hand him a movie oh boy we gotta talk about Bao we will talk about Bao oh boy did you see that Dumplin movie yeah we're going to talk about it Cronenberg keep your opinion we'll talk about it what happens to Doug Sweetland he goes over and makes storks for Warner Brothers they let all these guys get away and then they make shitty movies at other schools people kind of like storks I don't remember I tried watching because I like kind of want to move on and had to come back and like okay I guess I go back to my original franchise at Pixar the movie I know I can get made with total credo freedom you know and this is kind of it feels like that movie for Bird this is the safe rebound he also you know he has said for years and years and years everyone's always asking when are you going to make Incredibles 2 I don't want to make a sequel for this I can make a sequel I'll make it when I have a great idea feels like Brad Bird sort of the Bird movie felt a little convenient that that great idea came to him right after Tomorrowland and yet this movie does feel like he's wrestling with the Tomorrowland shit again I agree so even if maybe he had to make this movie now I do feel like he's like I still got all that Tomorrowland juice I want to sort it out Tomorrowland Crapples 2 kind of feel like two sides of the same coin I agree oh not in terms of quality just terms of ideas this is a better movie than Tomorrowland I like Tomorrowland yeah I mean look I re-listened to our Tomorrowland episode and was even myself astonished when we got to a Gentleman's B plus I was talking to my brother about it and he was like I love the episode but I do feel like I like the movie more than you and I was like no we both like the movie it's just if you talk about the movie you just have to acknowledge all the shit that doesn't work about it and yet it's such a special weird movie that you do kind of like it and I kind of like the fact that it's fucking broken in it's own weird way weird ass broken robot right but like listening to the episode listening to us talk about the problems with it I was like this movie's a disaster that's how I feel watching it and I'm like he is just such a symphonic filmmaker I remember what was the season where 30 Rock was kind of shaky was it like 4 or 5 where they had a really off season and I remember Nathan writing this piece about it where he was like the problem is that 30 Rock is so well made the cast is so good it's well shot the music is good that even when it's bad it's just fucking enjoyable to watch which also makes it more frustrating when the writing isn't there when it feels like they're off and like Brad Bird is kind of like that where he's just such a symphonic filmmaker that like even when Tomorrowland is like completely like it's like a Tesla catching on fire underneath the hood you're like this thing looks so good it feels smooth and I'm told that it's good for the environment you know have you seen that video of like McDonald's yeah insane but that's the thing and I feel like so I had this thing watching Incredibles 2 right and I admit I'm very stressed out I'm very stressed out where did you see it I didn't see it at the EWOC in Times Square with Great Theater I love that theater I got the seat I wanted it's sort of become very recently the best one I got a perfect seat I saw it in 2D The Craft was a good mix of adults and families because it's like well I don't want to see a Pixar movie just with fucking kids but I also don't want to see a Pixar movie just with fucking grown-ups and of course nailed it by seeing a Pixar movie just with fucking teenagers yeah and I'm also about to turn 33 years old congratulations birthday Benny when this comes out it'll be officially my birthday I was surrounded by high school kids feeling very much aware of my own mortality and it just was really hard to hear like teens sort of teetering and snickering amongst themselves but it's fine I was able to enjoy the movie nonetheless and got out of there pretty quick you texted us like going in grumpy I'm so old I felt very weird as just an old guy by himself sitting amongst the children I sat there I was like I think I've created the best circumstance and I sat there the whole time there was never a moment that made me angry the way that Tomorrowland makes me angry but I will also say there was not a moment where the movie felt transcendent for me okay so i sat there the entire time being like this is good he's not fucking it up i'm waiting for it to click into that bird magic and instead the magic for me was just the filmmaker this movie's smooth but i came out of it was just like i kind of feel like that script doesn't totally come together and it feels a little bit to me like indian drums and the temple of doom yes okay the temple of doom comes to my problem temple of doom i think the last half hour is good it's more the the getting there is a little rocky like once you're on the mine cart and shit like yeah that's that's kind of what i feel about like this movie is like great set pieces yeah great action this movie certainly it doesn't have a willy scott it doesn't have a short round it doesn't have characters that make me want to pull my eyes out of my head but this is a really good filmmaker yeah constructing really good entertainment there are sections with ideas that i find really interesting it sort of ends in a place that feels satisfying right i don't really know what this movie amounts to i read you after seeing it a second time i talked about the movie right on twitter.com like an idiot now which is mostly just the website for morons morons uh yeah no but so here's where i saw it at a press reading i was with mother blankie's emily yoshida yes well that's gonna come up uh yeah it was emily and richard our two favorite guests we saw it together exactly we saw it at the lincoln square amc um sort of the lincoln square amc um not a great theater look these screens are great did you see it in the delby prime no we saw it in a bad theater like and i'm not just about like the big theaters of the amc are great experience the small theaters they're still like inside you but they're kind of crummy picture was out of focus oh just at first bad uh-huh i rush off i say hey picture's out of focus oh you know like it's always a little weird especially press screenings because i don't even really know who'd bother and they like 85 percent fix it but it's still i have this and it drives me crazy absolutely not so especially because you know how meticulous bird is this is like i can't watch a movie about a guy who's so meticulous that's five percent projected wrong so and you know it's one of those things where the whole time i'm like is it just back in focus and i'm just like in my head about this you know like this the whole time i'm a little off and i watched the movie i kind of had the same reaction to you where i was like the action of this thing is fucking great yeah um and there's so many character beats and story beats i love yeah i don't really i can't add it all up um but i am just like it's like there's so many ideas yes and there's like scenes like the screenslaver like monologues like that where i'm like whoa there's a lot going on here a lot and i get very buzzy and excited about movies like this like this star wars and really this is like a star wars movie where i'm just like sitting there being like i hope this is good like i'm nervous this is my most anticipated movie of the year sure my most anticipated blockbuster of the year i guess yeah um and so i always walk out i'm just like i think i like that oh my god so and you texted me and you said he didn't fuck it up yeah it's really weird it's got a lot of ideas yeah that's exciting sure sure sure right he didn't phone it was the big thing you said yeah because i was really worried about it like just being on rails and i would always prefer a movie like this is trying for too much than a movie that's like funny just sort of getting in and getting exactly just you know um so then uh yeah this weekend i went to emily's wedding in north carolina which was wonderful and on the way back we drove because i'm a maniac uh and on the way back he drove with my girlfriend humble bag i meant to say humble brag can i make my case all right okay i meant to say that's holding the card like he's threatening me i meant to say humble brag hat trick now in my defense i'm sleep deprived i've been burning the candle at both ends i don't think i'm going to be a great time just to find your yellow card oh you know he's right though god this is why he's the commish he's right this is why he's the commish and now that's my new nickname god damn it he should give us both the triple red cards we're giving him a new nickname and what if we also add my checklists as one of course the check yeah um okay so on the way back driving up from nc uh-huh we stop over in like suburban dc like in virginia and i'm like oh there's like an alamo here we went to nando's which is like my favorite chain restaurant that's only down in dc like it's a big deal right you got the chicken sandwich uk uh no i got half chicken uh peri peri fries i love it all man um and we got to see the alamo it's like huge suburban alamo i'm sorry did you say per days no it's not before that then peri days just i want to investigate this because it seems like a potential with peri peri slice it's real good commissioner i want to investigate this because it seems like a potential yellow card oh go on you said they have locations in the uk so many but how would you know that i mean he's probably traveled there you know vacation you can eat fast food during vacation what do you want to have higher cuisine as much as possible when i go back to the uk go back commissioner permission to fall through what do you mean go back that would imply that's a place that i used to live that's right i used to live in the united kingdom for 13 years of my life it's never been talked about on this podcast before but it's time to talk about it yellow card keep secrets now i want the fans to keep track of how many yellow and red cards are distributed comedy points are done it's all the cards now baby now what if i also suck i think it's two yellow cards and a red card in your house so this is clearly a different system it's a very different system it'll be other colors i don't know also i want to give ben five comedy points for the card system really good really good uh there are about 280 nandos in the uk there are five in america all near dc okay so it's this gorgeous theater great sound full audience like kind of like you're like good mix of sunday this sunday and uh yeah and then that's when i was like okay all right now i think i settled into the story these scenes popped out of me where you know it always helps to see movie too once you know what the twists are and you sort of like can think about the themes a little more and i'll say this too i always feel like it's rough for me to formulate my thoughts on a picture movie the first time because the picture movies are the ones i've seen more than anything else yeah so what's a picture movie that's like risen for you over the years well ratatouille you said it's risen wildly for me i mean at the time of its release i would have put it maybe second to last and now i put it maybe third to last it's kind of one no it's like third or fourth for me i think that ranking i did the other day was fourth numero uno for me um yeah i mean they're constantly shifting for me which is why i do my ranking every time there's a new one because in the year in between i've rewatched like most of them again you know trying to find your rankings i'm just gonna sift through all the fucking retweets of misery from you yeah well i don't know if you've heard about the world it's not so good no world as you said on the tomorrowland episode yeah no good or bad don't do it yeah you got toy story 2 incredibles toy story wall-e ratatouille yeah i mean that's a solid i think that's a good five i think that's a gentleman's five and then you got nemo monsters coco i give my five i don't understand see i actually like your basic order here i think box should be about toy story three but apart from that those are pretty close for me you know you got so like nemo monsters coco inside out that seems like that all flows nicely for me and then you get into and then you're in the sequels you think i overranked some of the second tier stuff oh for sure and you also you would put a lot of my second tier stuff into third tier that's where we disagree well you're only third tier is cars 2 your entire third tier is that's the big tip is you would put a lot of other movies around there yeah i mean i don't like the sequels and you have up low which i'm fine with it up is not a movie i've ever watched again but i think it's still interesting i like it i just that's a movie with like like thematic resonance and like set pieces that are interesting that's like my 17th favorite pixar movie i like more than most movies you know i also don't care so much about the pixar rankings as you do you know i just mean like to me it's like brad barry movie great that's fine we'll go to turn rude all right so anyway i really love the movie i think it's great uh it's probably gonna be like in my top 10 of the year maybe not quite incredible so the other way it's like a contender for like my favorite movie of the year but really love it i think it's great i think it's got all kinds of shit going on let's talk about it yeah um and i want you to offer your analysis because i don't have much at this point i just know the things that felt like they didn't really click for me yeah um but this is the last piece of context i want to throw on which just kept on jumping out to me uh he says i finally got an idea now that tomorrow lands bombs i'm gonna do incredibles too right he starts digging into it they've announced that they've announced toy story 4 yeah and then toy story 4 gets pushed back yeah and incredibles gets pulled forward a year yes it does very dramatic animation yeah this was made on a tight schedule uh bradbury gave an interview to copy canon uh saying like i think fear is a motivating factor we lost a year we lost a year of development and people talk about why the good picture movies are so tight it's like they spent two years just fucking cracking story with a full team every day not letting themselves off the hook you know and the ones that just feel like immaculate zero fat clean economic smart storytelling are really good graduates of that program one exception what ratitude yeah and toy story 2 is the same thing right yeah those are the ones they rushed them yes they probably made everyone work way too hard and were like violated all kinds of like right laws toy story 2 especially they say like it kind of here right like they did like i think they turned it around in two years it was toy story 2 was supposed to go straight to vhs i know we talked about within the next six months and last year said give me a year and i'll get them um right which is crazy but then he got people on the program yeah get too many he gave lots of lots of lots of lots of you know what i mean um i hate the fucking universe sorry and uh uh jeffrey lee could hire at disney i think as well yeah she's the person who sort of changed the frozen script yeah i mean it's sister focus that seems like a creative voice you want disney has done a much better job of bringing new voices in on the animation can i say one other thing i want pixar to do that i want p doctor to find interesting people and that's what you do as a studio and ben i don't want to hurt your feelings and i don't know how you feel oh my god his hands are reaching for the cards i'm a little worried about ralph too well i just i saw the trailer in front of um his hands under the desk i can't see what he's grabbing more cards still he's motionless but he's still you see the trailer for ralph too in front of yes i saw it how do you feel i'm not like saying like oh it looks bad but i'm still like what's going on here i still can't see his other hands oh he lifted up it's empty wow it's a death card what jesus christ death card that's like a major upgrade this card is amazing this is a massive breakthrough am i dead now look at that spike in the audio you're gonna have to deal with it in my defense that was astonishing it was i think the podcast has just gone to a whole new level i could have known to roll away from the mic on that one i didn't know i thought it was worse we were gonna get a red card i thought it might be like a purple card you know like some sort of new color i don't know maybe like a american black card this is a lot yeah sure sure you know who's gonna buy me dinner david i want to buy you dinner i will say this about ralph too which we should spoil is going to be a ben's choice when it comes out oh yeah right we're gonna do an episode on the ralphs i do feel a little scared by the way they have moved so fully away from video again right and now it just seems like this kind of like shrek 2-y sort of like reference-y but that's what the trailer looks like good emoji movie but i'm still not interested in seeing a good emoji right i guess i see your point i love ralph and finale they're great movie friends and i yeah i'm really looking forward to it because i just want more ralph yeah but great great point we do get more ralph i want more ralph yeah we're gonna get him and that's what you know going into it they're gonna at least get that they're making a promise that they cannot break ralph may break the internet but the movie won't break that promise right no he's gonna wreck it he's gonna wreck it you get more ralph but you're right it might be a little reference heavy it might be kind of more like commenting on contemporary online culture yeah in a way that might be like all right i get it see when you said like wrecker off two looks like bad track i feel like wrecker off one is like better track oh it's a really good deconstruction of storytelling tropes yeah yeah totally character roles yes you're right you're right you know in a really smart way and this i'm just like it's gonna make fun different things and you know who else is out of Carolina uh katie rich another friend of the show oh yeah and uh we were talking about shrek because charlie's been watching some shrek yeah well the coco is his favorite now apparently good kid uh and she was just saying like shrek's such a piece of shit yeah blows and not only that looks terrible so there you go also shrek's a fucking loser also shrek sucks living in a fucking swamp by an apartment loser we talked about this probably like 200 episodes ago but do you remember when shrek like three came out or i'm sorry shrek the third came out and they did the whole campaign with like the national board for like children's health where it was like shrek like on a skateboard with like a fucking jug of milk and an apple saying eat healthy right and it's like no one eats more unhealthy shit there's a fucking set piece in shrek one that's like him eating like pig pews and eyeball soup and shit and they were like shrek says being in shape is fun like first of all he's fat second of all he has a burlap sack right right he like literally he can't find clothes that fit him he drinks dog diarrhea for breakfast like what are you talking about it's best for the donkey that's a filthy animal i was like here's a pitch for shrek it ralph okay so incredibles 2 blank track would you say you had a blank track to make that joke yes i think okay good uh no but before we talk about incredibles 2 what's before incredibles 2 a little bit about now yes uh let me find the name of the filmmaker because i forgot it first female pixar short director that's depressing boy they did have i mean obviously they had a female director on brave who they fired yeah they bravely fired but she is created yes co-director uh domi shi is the director of bow now bow it was announced oh it's a movie about a mother raising a dumpling who becomes a boy everyone's like yeah i see this and i'm like i see like a little skill from it and i'm like one you know i'm all sick of the pixar cutie thing yeah i'm sick of your cutie thing it's true i'm so cute and two i was just kind of like viscerally like my food is not gonna talk to me this was your argument doesn't come to life it stays dead and then i eat it asks too many questions right how much is there consciousness i want to think about this it's like cars times a billion but now that we see the movie right especially because you get into the thing where it's like okay what's it is cars times a billion exactly right but you're like a pork dumpling so obviously pork it was a pig who was alive and it gets grounded to meat and put in a bun and then that made its own consciousness pork the brain right like memories of pre-slaughter hey why so literal yeah well fair enough then i see the movie and i'm like oh why so serious you know even though this is a pretty twisted movie yeah it gets a little twisted in the end there well it's just a dumpling well it's also true um but uh you know it's a metaphorical film about like uh an immigrant mother like having to sort of let her son go and grow up and he's gonna be different and might be you know a little less like sort of you know interested in the culture she wants to apart to him right you know like when this thing started working for me i was like oh this is very metaphorical but this movie does two things i do not like okay one the food comes to life no it does happen in the movie let's be clear two there's a scene in this eight minute movie yeah where she makes this fucking sumptuous banquet oh and you see this great shot of her like you know like in a walk cooking a lot of meat and you know she makes this like platter and she's like uh and he just walks out you know don't want to eat that fuck off leaves and i'm just like at that point i'm practically like we need to leave the theater i need to go throw i like that i thought it was a sweet little movie to be clear for listeners i don't like it when people don't eat food right uh i really like the character animation on surly dumpling boy i did too i think he was yeah um and it came together for me again i thought it was a nice little thing hey they should let her make more movies sure i mean it was obviously a very personal movie for her she's talked about it in interviews um yeah i just look the best picture movies come out of the directors who have really personal stories also right she eats she eats the fucking dumpling person and it's like a metaphor for like her anger and her inability to let go but also she like eats the dumpling man after she's married a woman a human woman who comes in and then she's like the human woman leaves and she eats and it's crazy hey how's your husband Jerry doing well his mom ate him my mother-in-law ate my husband you're familiar with how my husband was a not a little dumpling boy right the poochie of dumplings oh my god oh my god in the theater I saw it it's a lot to throw at anyone I think in the theater I saw it I also just want to acknowledge the fact that we are still only on the short that plays before the movie it's like for this podcast we're doing fine the theater I saw it in when she swallows him and it's like very quick she just goes and then just like in the tummy the theater I saw it in someone not like yelled it out like they were trying to get credit for but just very loudly said uh you just ate your son uh-huh she did good cognitive abilities on you anyway it's fascinating short certainly more interesting than some of the shorts I've had recently like a movie like a short like Piper where it's like this is very pretty it's like an incredible piece of animation but it's not much to it so you know it's not a Piper but it also fails to reach the heights of say lava I love my curvy volcano it's a thing she's not curvy though it's one of a guy you have a guy just fucking curvy I got a mound Kevin James of Volcano is it Shrek of Volcano I love you David can I just say one thing before we get on to the movie how many times have we said can I just can I just say one thing because you brought up Twisted I have a big announcement career announcement here I have just signed a deal with Warner Brothers the new DC Entertainment to do a solo Joker film interesting I'm very excited I think it's going to be a breakthrough it will be the fifth solo Joker film to market right so we're going to have Leto, we're going to have Phoenix and then this is on top of that well yeah I guess you'll have whoever the new Joker is established in the Matt Reeves movie and then this I guess this will be the fourth new Joker to market but it's very different because I'm sort of taking a Logan approach it's going to be like an older Joker who's tired of making people laugh and gasping them and all of that it's him coming tired of the brutality it's called Richard T so one dollar for that their stock would immediately drop to zero it's called Richard T I'm recycling Twitter jokes because we have to look after our environment so the film is called Incredibles 2 no the no drop cleaner the the is cleaner Bird said when people asked him about it he was like it's not the Terminator 2 and I was like good argument fucking cool way to win that one people had to probably go home and cry after he annihilated them with that response so cold open in this movie I'm getting pumped because they're immediately bringing back one of my favorite characters the Underminer Tony Ridinger I love Tony Ridinger Tony Ridinger who I think is voiced by Brad Bird's son who in the first movie played the something amazing I guess now he's older now he's older a little interesting nod to the passage of time Benny Michael Bird Michael Bird yeah he's been in no apparently he was the voice of Tony Ridinger in the Incredibles really? so maybe it was the other Bird son yeah anyway Tony Ridinger's got a turtleneck he's very dreamy do you like Tony?

yeah he's polite a little doofusy not doofusy but you know he's a little head in the clouds I guess what is his type? Dreamboat he's like a nice boy he's like a nice boy from high school where your mom's not going to freak out about you dating he's like a nice boy he's in drama yeah David yes you look like a man who doesn't know that fast growing trees is America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers I had no idea yeah well David they have all the plants your yard or home needs including fruit trees privacy trees flowering trees shrubs and house plants my home is littered with all of these and they're all grown with care and guaranteed to arrive healthy it's like your local nursery but anywhere you live with more plants than you'll find anywhere else and whatever you're looking for fast growing trees helps you find options that actually work for your climate space and lifestyle for me all inclusive I'll take any kind of tree you've got Griffin I know you're you know a green thumb yeah I think you're gonna I got 10 green fingers I think you're gonna agree with me on this then you know you go to a garden center and you just find it so overwhelming and convenient you took the personal statement out of my mouth Ben that is how I feel and then here's the other thing you try to hire some landscapers it's too expensive I'm so tired of spending every day of my life on the phone with landscapers listen with fast growing trees it's just so reassuring that you know you're gonna order plants and they're guaranteed to be healthy and to thrive but let me guess when the trees arrive it takes a really long time for them to grow they have their life and thrive guarantee it promises your plants are happy and healthy no green thumb required just quality plants you can count on plus get ongoing support from trained plant experts who can help you plan your landscape choose right plants learn how to care for them every step of the way can you imagine if Wally had a promo code for fast growing trees that movie wouldn't install it never would even exist right now they have great deals on spring planting essentials up to half often like plants and listeners of our show get 20% off their first purchase when using the code check at checkout that's an additional 20% off better plants and better growing at fast growing trees using code check at checkout fast growing trees dot com code check now's the perfect time to plant let's go together use check to save today offers valid for a limited time terms and conditions may apply David yes you got an intentional air about you today well I'm more intentional about what I wear day to night I don't want to leave into pieces that feel easy comfortable and put together I'm sure you can get those from anywhere right oh quince oh he's showing tag he's showing tag on me it's been my go-to because very clean fits very nice fabrics they don't feel like cheap fabrics I hate dirty fits I hate cheap fabrics if the weather's getting warmer I really rely on my quince polo shirts for the kind of like exactly like a formal enough piece of clothing that I can go to the office but it's comfy yes because we do have a dress code here so they got those 100% prima cotton tees with a softness they got a feel and for those David is touching the fabric can't sit that same balance relax and comfortable I gotta tell you I recently had a birthday and my in-laws sent me a quince gift card because they know I like quince so much and I am itching to spend it that's a really strong endorsement right everything at quince we talked a lot about on our Incredibles episode which was very high very short no tangents how humorously clean everyone loved it probably our most favorite episode favorite episode that movie when he pitched it they were like we cannot afford to make this movie and it's come up with a lot of budget hacks for Incredibles and one of them was this movie has too many characters so they developed a technology called Everyman that allowed them to have pretty much two stock body types for a female character and a male character and they could fill out crowd scenes with minor variations it would auto-generate like okay this nose is 20% bigger these eyes are 20% smaller and so outside the primary principal characters in Incredibles were very meticulously designed all the background characters Incredibles and the one-liners under fives what have you all look kind of the same and Tony Ryder falls into that where he's very much the stock mold they have he's very subtly redesigned in this opening in a way that makes it clear that it's like oh Brad Bird has if not a blank check a much larger check I'm sure this was well the listed budget is $200 million that's a lot of money yeah so twice as much as the first one I mean it's been a while technology's advanced he hasn't made an animated film in like a decade now so all these things the processing powers there this movie looks gorgeous unbelievable I mean it really does he also has found a way to do like it's not cell shading but he does some really interesting things with lighting in this movie and also design the characters at sharper angles especially the new characters like the Devers doing something really interesting so that right away I was just like okay so he's going to push this fucking technology to the limits now and this cold open is kind of replicating the cold open of the original Incredibles where you're cutting between these brief conversations and the black musical side so that's like interesting New York here but now it's Rick Decker who was still very much alive when we recorded our episode 15 years ago interviewing very old man and he gets the final dedication of the other film he's interviewing Tony Radinger about what he witnessed which was this Underminer attack that was teased at the end of the first movie and we go into that set piece itself yeah you got John Ratzenberger he's kind of playing like it's like a mole man but a little more blue collar right kind of a blue collar mole man but I always love the Underminer ending because of course that's the first issue of Fantastic Four is the mole man the creature popping out in the middle of the street and his family coming together and the Incredibles obviously and dead to the Fantastic Four and having them have this first big public fight feels very classical FF to me and this is just like fun fucking rollercoaster set piece for Ibergo so much fun you got this incredible trampolining into action and getting sucked into that I really like that and the good story would be that they tell Dash and Violet to stay behind and watch out for Jack-Jack but both of them want to be part of the fight so they keep the bit with the stroller just rolling into view and Jack-Jack's like or that's what happened and it's like oh no it's Violet she was pushing it invisible runs away good stuff Violet does some cool shit she throws like force field bolts yeah that's the fucking best Violet has a lot to do with it this movie does a lot right by Violet and me I read a lot of interviews with Vowell where she talked about how she records just alongside Brad Bird Brad Bird does every single voice of every other character which she says he's like weirdly good at but she talked about how when you record the movie you're like man this is like a Violet movie because you don't know and if you watch there's a good B-roll video that came out I think someone posted in the blankies Reddit of Bird working with Sophia Bush and Hunter and Nelson and Jackson when they were recording and he really does contextualize every line for them he comes in and works with them so this is like if you imagine it's a giant drill and what you're feeling right now is before they do a series of that line over and over again so I think he does make things very personal for each actor which helps their performance is feeling that lived in so this is a fun fight scene which ends in a tremendous amount of distraction and here I'm like okay so is this because I've tried to stay pretty clear not just spoilers but major plot details of this movie going into because I was like I'm on board I don't even really want to know what he's doing outside of broad strokes and all that I'm hearing is just a basic plot and I'm like but what are the themes of this movie what's the thing that Bird's digging into so now very quickly this movie's setting up this like yeah but look at the fucking public damage of this thing you say that you're out here protecting us but you didn't catch the guy people could have gotten hurt and now the city has to pay for this which is the classic superhero thing they do these things and the villains usually get away because they're going to come back and write that's the gag of the first Incredibles 2 the first Incredibles comma T-O-O because here's the other big game this movie's doing starting immediately after the first one so you don't have any shift of like oh here's what's happening in between the two so we can set a new table for new circumstances no he wants to make a movie about like okay if they're going to come back how do you re-legalize superheroes like this is a world that made them outlaws right so this movie is about like the legal question of superheroes like should they exist because I guess the Underminer fight at that point in the movie it's a couple weeks after they do that quick time jump after the syndrome fight which we never really see the public like the larger public ripples of the syndrome fight obviously the people who are around in the media vicinity are like cheering and are like yay supers are back but we don't see how the news covers it we don't know you know Rick Decker seems optimistic about bringing them back but we don't know the full sort of effects of that culturally this makes it clear that people are fighting against it the government is yes people seem mostly fine with them which I think is a crucial part of this movie but the media is able to sell the story yeah well that's that's um Winston's argument where he's like all you see is the news footage of the aftermath and that's no good for you guys and that's a problem Ben what do you think of the big Underminer fight great set piece I loved his vehicle and how it was a big drill I love how he had it built so that then it had the escape designed right into it sort of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles remember how they had those drill cars and there's some really great pun names this one in particular is good I think though a villain that's just driven for money is such a clear thing and we'll get to it later but I don't know but like to me I'm like oh he's bad and he wants money this whole like weird sort of like loftier sort of like bigger ideas of why someone's bad I feel like this movie struggles with it more than the original does yes for sure which I think like you know Becky Drysdale in our episode was talking about how she has a hard time totally reconciling syndromes a whole sort of stance what he's fighting for within the story and also what he represents I also like his jackhammer punching the underminer I think that's cool oh yeah he's got his weird mechanical hands I fucking love it and his hands themselves also look like Wally's claws yeah they look claw hands which I don't know if that was intentional but they're very similar sort of flat claw hands I don't know I think Bird likes Easter egg stuff and the Pixar movies always love that love that I couldn't totally figure out what he was trying to say with the villains here I could be trying to say a couple different things well we'll talk about the main villains we'll talk about the underminer and also we so rarely get that in superhero movies these days because it's usually people who are trying to end the world in one way or another it's nice to just have petty bank thieves the thing I love about Spider-Man 2 is he has a bank high sequence and I also just like well yeah Spider-Man 2 with Joel McHale and the Toaster I love that I've been watching Spider-Man 2 recently how the fuck did we not nominate Rosemary Harris you love her in that movie she's so good I do really want to talk about the Spider-Man movies but Homecoming 2 I like that Homecoming has the sort of working class villain where he's just like I'm trying to make some money here which is I mean Spider-Man's always been the classic street hero all Spider-Man 2's problems come from the Spider-Man arc Spider-Man 2 doesn't have any problems I'm sorry Spider-Man Homecoming comes from the Spider-Man arc or lack thereof all it's world shit I think is exemplary but yes it is nice to just watch a very clear he's trying to rob the bank they have to stop him they're for them we know what the powers are also his way of robbing banks is cool where he blows up the banks so they fall down and he can just suck money from underground like the banks literally fall down and he doesn't have that speech where he's like I'm undermining the pillars of your it's a great word where the villain's bit is part of everything he does his car his morals the design has to match up with his philosophy which has to match up with his scheme you're right the classic good Stan Lee villain the bad one to the guy who's like my name is the schemer it's like what do you do I scheme oh okay I got a great scheme I'll kill you I guess that's scheming I just read this old comic where he's like I'm going to scheme to take over the mob and I'm like you sound like a mobster he's like no the schemer anyway there are some of those characters like the shark what's your power I'm ruthless like a shark okay that's all criminals I also don't sleep where's the bit with the kingpin in the Stan Lee Spider-Man every time Spider-Man is always like he's so fat and he punches me he's like I forgot he's solid muscle and you're like we get it okay he's strong but they're like can you believe a fat man but not fat muscle like they do that every single time he shows up he gets mad about being cold fat he's like I'm not fat I work hard on his body he's a big man I'm just poking up you're right I'm building muscle mass when Spider-Man's always like you're so fat and he's thinking like he's not full muscle yeah i know that the fucking marvel tv marvel uh movies the thing is a real grande line it doesn't seem like it'll be crossing time soon because of pearl mugger uh feige fights i would love to see uh tom holland fight vincent de mafrio i mean let's make it happen it would just be the fucking best oh i think isn't fucking uh leo treiber playing kingpin in the spider first movie oh voicing that's what i've heard that's cool yeah that movie looks really interesting yeah like visually i said that six months ago and you were like and i was like looks pretty interesting i think i was that dismissive i'm more dismissive of the title well yeah it's just called spider anyway so the big fight happens they get in trouble they're shipped away as usual in their witness protection program earl fran decker and he makes it clear like look they're shutting the whole thing down he has this line politicians don't understand people who do good things that makes them nervous and in general he's really nice with them yes like where he's like i love you guys but you know yeah it's like they just don't want to pay for this shit anymore yeah which gets into something culturally now where i feel like this entire not to get into this fucking thing but like the social justice warrior thing is so insane to me because it comes out this fight of like wait if you're trying to like stand up for people who are being persecuted there clearly must be something in it for you right like when people derisively call someone social justice warrior it's like you're just trying to get the credit for doing the good thing and it's like why are you so skeptical of anyone trying to do a good thing and also it kind of doesn't matter as long as you're doing a good thing yeah it better to do a good thing for the wrong reasons yeah but a bad thing for the right reasons you know um but at this point the movie's kind of dealing an interest in kind of murky territory where it's like the public relations fight the imagery the sort of uh the optics if you will and the incredible coming from this place where it's like they don't have a big ideology they love being superheroes it's their it's their like core being is just to do this there's a place of sort of automatic empathy for them and justice where it's like they don't have a thing they're standing for it's just like oh danger let's stop that right i mean that's one thing when students are pointing out to them but yeah where he's like you know what it's good to manicure this a little bit streamline which you're your plan of action right but um the movie is uh being made so many years after the first one there's been all these superhero movies since here's the core of your little bit i do think bird's been watching that and thinking about it like because i think yeah and the movie is like is is there a place for these people in our society and what is their place and is that a good thing or a bad thing and right when they get to the hotel they have this big fight which is essentially like should we break the law right in order to like fix the law like is it worthwhile to do that this is the angle of your take that i find the most interesting which is why do we keep on asking for this from our pop culture right why have we been on this kit for 16 years that we have not stopped in 2008 everyone thought this is the end of an era and then fucking iron man and dark night came out yeah i feel like at the end of last year everyone went we must be hitting superhero and we're now gonna get the three highest grossing superhero movies i mean really like there's a good chance that incredibles ends up the third highest grossing superhero movie of all time behind you're right i didn't even think about it you're right behind black panther and infinity war right you know which came out this year right which are all gonna end up in the top 10 in history um so there's a question about ben is is what's the next crisis there's a question why why do we ask for this what are we getting from this is this helping us or hurting us to be constantly investing our sort of imagination into these right pillars of moral integrity who are also so wildly superpowered we just go like you deal with it yeah and also like one of the risks in hearing that it's funny because like i do feel like incredible one is this movie that's like they should be allowed to be superheroes because that's what they are and that's where people see this argument like you know this super elitist whatever yes you know where it's like that should be able to run as fast as you can because that's what you can do so like why would you restrain him right like that's the sort of free enterprise kind of thing and then this movie is a little more like you can't deny that but also you know there's a lot of risk there yeah uh because it's a movie about superheroes being used for evil and this is a movie about morality and how people who don't have any morality are the most frightening like dangerous people of all yeah and it's a movie that ends with like the villain saying like we would have been friends if it weren't for your code of ethics yeah yeah and this is and last girl's like yeah i mean sorry like that's a crucial i mean i agree the evelyn helen is the you know that's like a crucial relationship look i like all their scenes together but i came out of the movie being like i still don't understand why she did this what do you mean she hit superheroes i don't understand this being her plan what we mean the hypnotism we will get to it okay so let's so now they're relocated to a shitty motel yes which is nice bird and i feel like this movie really doubles down the 60s totally totally a little later maybe like you know it's yeah yeah but uh it makes it very clear that well not because i mean it's like 30 seconds i know you know like stuff like the new math like you're talking about like right but i feel like this makes it clear like this isn't like madman house an aesthetic choice right we're clearly like setting this movie in like walt disney's tomorrowland future right especially the house with the water features and the black and white it's like this is 100 the 1960s just an alternate version right um they get to this motel yeah and uh they're all sort of trying to like figure out like where do we stand here and having this thing they're explaining to the kids about like you know can we break the law right um which is like a thing i see coming up now with like all the sort of uh immigration nightmares that are happening right now with people being like the only way to really fight this is to actually be right to break the law yeah right right right and in the first movie helen is pretty steadfast it's like well superheroes illegal like that's over you know bob's the one who's like secretly doing a police scanner but as i saw someone tweet this week like harriet topman was breaking the law no people of course i'm not no no we're on the same picture slavery bad but um no but the argument that the people who are canonized right as being like our big trailblazers and human rights were all breaking the law at the time who then were able to remake the law yes by their actions and so that's one of now let's add that onto the pile of arguments that the movie is sort of stewing on sure but right i mean like that to me is a core argument of should superheroes be legal where it's like bob is basically he keeps saying like the kids need to be able to choose like he's saying like again like kind of like we are a thing like we can't just be ignored now helen seems a lot more rational about it well she's the right but bob has so much like self-worth issues wrapped up in it you know i mean i feel like helen's more chill is like i have family that i love like i'm doing okay she was also fine leaving it behind i think she gets a rush out of doing it again yes but bob is very clear he's so miserable at the beginning of incredibles 1 and then he gets such a pep in his step from like getting reignited by mirage syndrome stuff right whereas his arc in this movie is him realizing that he gets so much out of being that like that's that's his arc in the movie right which is a climbing bird just with the arcs like it's a classic sequel right but it's a career thing where it's like he needs to find a way to not only find value in his career because at the beginning of this movie like they're like elastic girl you go do it he's like what but i'm the yeah i'm the bacon getter you know because she even says she's like well why don't you do that and i'll get it he's like no no i'll do it like you know he thinks he's gonna go back to another insurance company or whatever right but he won't like allow her to like supplant him in this sort of hierarchy i had like a vaguely terrifying moment the other day where i had to go uh get a jury duty oh um or get postponed rather until i'm done picking it up yeah and i had to fill out one of those forms where you know all the information but then also said like occupation and then it said hobbies okay and i was like occupation actor i guess and then it was like right uh hobbies and i was like fuck i think i don't have hobbies anymore this form just gave you an existentialist it really did and i was like buying toys but this is what's terrifying for me because i was like everything i would have listed as a hobby 10 years ago is now my career outside of that so like what like seeing movies what do you mean like oh like a comedy movies you know like whatever it was like hosting badass podcast right right these things i was like i find this fun you know and then that sounds good your job is the thing you find fun but i also was like i have no separation from like my professional life and the things that like make me happy you can't just go home and say like let me let me just do this on why right and i've been talking to you about uh you know like production stress that like par for the course just like you know it's still making tv sure and uh part of the problem is it's like i am completely incapable of just like hanging my hat at the end of the day and being like i gotta go to sleep i had this point where i was like i need to find like i need to like fucking making paper or like some sort of like to join a choir you need to do something just this other right um because like i i have nothing my entire sportsman my entire sense of self-worth is tied up in this thing but also like if i have struggles with that thing right i don't have children you can have a couple i'm like let's get on that you know uh when everyone sees me they're like that seems like someone who is so in control of his own life he should have direct it's so good at waking up um going to the bathroom and stuff because like the bob stuff was kind of hitting me hard because especially like if your career is going well you know i'm look i really bob i'm a superhero um it's like then the moments where you don't have that thing am i getting a card for that you're close um the moments when you don't have that thing get really bleak yeah so but our old friend lucia should talk about bob's arc like right it's about him accepting the value he can draw from his family from being a dad right uh lucia shows up that can be as satisfying but like yeah parenting when done properly can be a heroic guy absolutely um and it's like uh what's his name lucia shows up looking hotter than ever looking a real snack i guess so that's the worst thing about our incredibles episode the universally claimed episode is that you not you really uh uh becky does it more but you kind of like you know have fun get a little where she's like you have a crush on lucia yeah yeah he's hot he's a hot guy so cool he's hot so hot he's cool right he's nice someone said that uh that little tangent in our episode caused them to apply a what is it rule 34 sure sure like look up the sexy frozen a lot of frozen porn out there stunned stunned to learn this frozen rules you know usher plays the limo driver who says i'm your biggest fan really and that's because usher loves frozen i'm almost sure that's funny um yes usher it's just weird right outside of like all the um you know elastigirl uh porn that anthony lane has commissioned himself he literally is a boing joke that's what it is yeah check out the new yorker you know the new yorker the most sophisticated publication around what's up you know the new yorker elitist man with a monoclea butterfly right yeah there are cartoons yeah but that's how much a lot of fun is hmm how right funny right their review of the incredibles includes a paragraph about how attractive their head and most senior critic was to elastigirl ending with a joke about popcorn on your lap being flung up into the air because you're boner red card to hit talking about the scene where elastigirl and evelyn chat to each other which i do think is uh you know there is like a sort of tension to that scene that's not quite boing i think there's some interesting tension it also implies that every time two women talk on screen he's like why isn't this rated nc-17 what is how do they get away with this oh boy oh boy all right oh boy yeah i think you mean yeah um so lucius looking fucking hot it was like so during our big adventure this guy who we see in this great action sequence played by odenkirk yeah also looking a snack yeah and also looking a lot like bob odenkirk oh who's a hottie yeah number one hottie um game his card and like he wants to talk to us about super stuff yeah and so they put on their costumes i just love trench coats it's so good i love them sans mask right clearly wearing super like unitards underneath trench coats there's such a cool meshing of styles there i also like um you know the first movie has that sort of it's playing on that vibe of bob's having an affair right like with mirage and it ends with him hugging her and all the girls all met and like she listens in on the phone and she and this is like the america who kind of rekindled and like they're putting on their coats and they're like bye kids so we're going out for a walk uh watch the baby all right see you later you know pizza on the table are they going to like a key party right you know right like a fuck frozen because frozen shows up and look at it they're like oh god they're gonna fuck frozen and then we're like i mean everyone knows that elastic girl is like so so hot but like you know fucking relax they're all i mean look elastic girls look very very very cool i can't say she's my mother but right um holly hunter did you have a little teaser in front yeah which is really weird yeah yeah right where it's like making a movie like this is really hard like it takes a lot of work and we're like okay brag about it i'll tell you why i love that for like den of thieves you know like the stupidest movie ever before you make fun of us just know like it's the job look i mean there's four months of my life on this it's the deathbed of these people bit where it's like someone has to wake up at 4 a.m and toast the bagels you know this is a lot of people working a lot um i'll tell you why i didn't like it felt like i was feeling my bit wait no one should ever make an animated movie yeah they were stealing your bits it's also like fucking calm down it's okay that's what the money is for to quote the great don draper right that's like one of the uh oh i talked at sky high masterpiece uh uh theater recently uh joined the six timers club and uh are you the only sky high blu-ray and it had like three because that was the first wave of blu-rays three anti-piracy ads i'm like i just bought it you wouldn't steal a car in 2008 i'm sure i paid 35 dollars for sky high on blu-ray lacking any bonus features old minty kaling stand-up bit about that yeah where it's like i might steal a car if i just had to click a button and it was free and no one ever bothered you could touch a car and it would immediately reproduce into another identical car and the person who owned that car in the first place still got to keep their car um this is the last person you should be telling like please watch our movie i'm like we're here um yes we're here winston never yes here's this tragic story his dad was this captain of industry type love superheroes right so like a right he's like a pre-war you know i mean like a 40s guy like who's just like america yeah loves heroes because they're heroic loves gazer beam yeah nice little gazer beam shout out um he had phones yeah right he's like a classic golden age he financed them so much right they had a direct line gazer beam and the flame one uh like flameoid uh dina guy no not dina guy dina guy's like a thunderbolt in his head okay yeah okay he has his name yeah um right like he's like a golden age of comics guy right yes yes it's just like it's great that they're superheroes because what they do is they fight crime crime is bad right that's like the whole take of a golden age superhero yes if you're criminal they fight you and also i think the idea that they like inspire people that they're like good upstanding like good americans exemplars wear masks and won't reveal who they are yeah um um so this stuff i i get to this chunk of the movie and then he died after the superhero band he gets robbed he picks up the phone no one's there he gets right and i get like a little worried at this moment just because i'm like you're thinking like it's brad like grinding an axe is that what no i get where i'm like okay he's really showing the work here oh sure yeah i agree the first this is such a clear sequence yeah like it's so much exposition that's so clear like i'm saying the conflict of this movie i'm saying these two characters in their history their opposite viewpoints on what happened you see he has that moment where he's like i don't agree with you but we can't talk about it right now right and it's like it's not like i can fully solve the equation here but it's like i got it down to three options like this movie's giving me such a clear tia and it's not like the syndrome thing is a big twist in the first incredibles but it's also like the way he's introduced feels pretty organic it contributes to interesting tension to that opening set piece then he's gone for a while you know and this just feels like you know it's it i just feel It doesn't feel sweaty to me, but I'm seeing some perspiration. Can we just get this all out there? That's more of a thing where it's like, we're going to have the one scene that just gets it done.

We're just going to have to bite that scene. I always get bummed out when that happens. I can handle it as long as it's one scene. Especially someone like Brad Bird who's usually so good at finding ways to very efficiently work that stuff into actual action.

Or comedy or drama rather than having some explanation. In the first Incredibles, he does so much of that with the documentary talking and stuff. Which is sweaty and it's not right, but you can also get away with. And this time he doesn't do that.

He does this, fine. And also when Syndrome is finally explaining everything to him, monologuing to him, He also A, calls out the fact that he's monologuing, and B, is fighting him while it's going on. Yes. Like he's physically beating this guy up while he's explaining why he wants to get it.

But yeah, Syndrome does have that moment where he's like, you got me monologuing. So it's doing the kind of meta joke about him info dumping. There's always going to be cute ways around this. But I hear a movie, people explain the point.

And this feels a little less elegant than what Brad Bird usually does. Well, you're a little less elegant. Agreed! Alright, so Winston's like, I love superheroes.

They would have saved my dad. That's why I love superheroes. And Ed L Endeavor. Evil Endeavor.

Great name. Yeah, is like, well, I never much liked them. Well, no, she comes in and she first presents this sort of wacky meta, because she's got all her papers and stuff. And she seems kind of hungover.

She's played by Catherine Keener, who has the greatest voice. Just the role. Just the greatest voice. Yeah.

I mean, Birdcast's so well, voice-wise, in the Incredibles movies, particularly. I just answered Catherine Keener's in a movie, and then now we've crossed a new threshold with just her voice being in a movie. Her voice. I'm just like, this is the coolest lady alive, right?

This is the number one coolest lady alive. But no, I'm just in this movie, Holly Hunter, the other coolest lady alive. It's crazy. But such a distinct voice instead of opposite voices.

And it's Sarah Powell. Who's cool? And this is our third favorite. I'm so sleepy.

And I look at Void. Void's cool. Void's cool. I wish Void feels like a character that was a little more weaved into the story at large in a previous draft.

I don't need more Void. We'll get to that. I'm not saying I need more of it, but it just feels like there was a version where she was more into the plot rather than just being someone who gets brainwashed it. Sure.

Maybe Incredibles 3, maybe. I don't know. Right. Because this is the other thing I want to say.

In terms of not just Brad Bird saying, look, I like the pressure of losing a year, knowing I had less time to crack everything. He said, I finally cracked Incredibles 2. I had two really strong ideas for what I wanted to do with the film. We started working, and about a year in, I realized it didn't work.

Interesting. Sure. So after waiting like 14 years, going like, I'm not going to do it until I have it, he felt like he had it. He started working on it, and went like, actually, breaking this out as a story, it doesn't function.

And I started rewriting the whole thing then and there. When the movie was already up on rails, it had been announced, licensing deals were in place, what have you. And so I see a little bit of that in the movie. I would imagine you just simplified.

He makes it sound like he did a big change. Sure. What was it? Give me the dates, Bird.

He said, I think, up until a year and a half ago, Screenslaver was not part of the movie at all. The movie was about artificial intelligence. Is that what? Yeah.

That sounds like an Incredibles 3 idea, Brad. Yeah, let's wait on the AI question. I don't know if that means the Devers weren't in it at all, but it sounds like certainly there was no physical manifestation of a villain like that. The film was more about technology run amok in a very literal way.

That's a different movie. Right, right. Which makes me think he literally threw almost everything out. It sounds like the only thing that stayed in place was the Bob Helen shift.

He said he had two big concepts. It was the Bob Helen shift, Elastigirl taking the lead, Bob having to deal with the family, and his big concept for what the superhero plotline was. Right. And it sounds like he threw all of that about a year into development, what then became a three-year process rather than a four-year process.

I don't know what happened, but if I were talking to him, I would say it. I feel like what he settled on was the right thing to settle on, which is like, you're making a movie about superhero legalization, so make the movie about the argument for the role of superheroes in society. If you want to make an AI run amok movie, Brad, I'm ready. I want your AI run amok movie, whatever the fuck whacking us that's going to be.

But also, maybe it wasn't a movie about superhero legalization at that point. That's fine. I'm just saying. I figured it out.

He may have literally just made it smaller. Because the other thing, I know why he wants to not jump in time. He wants the baby. Like, you know, and to do great babies.

He did the short Jack Jack Attack, which was on the original DVD release of the film. I think it got that way for an Oscar, maybe. Which is just the stuff we didn't see with Jack Jack and the Babysitter, which is really fun. And I think that stuck in his brain of, oh, the family still doesn't know that Jack Jack has powers.

Syndrome knows, the babysitter knows. He intentionally makes it. Because in the final thing, when he shows off to Syndrome, he's too far up. Right.

And I think that was the one comedic device he was like 100% passionate about towards making a sequel. It did not. It's going to be worth it. Bummer.

Yeah. Go on, sir. Which might soon carve out. Sure.

Great car. Yeah. That feels like that was always in place. And then he reverse engineered from there.

Oh, it'd be fun if Bob was going to take care of him. Yeah. Which, again, just seems logical. Right.

And so that means it has to take place in the same time here. You don't want Jack Jack and the older. You don't want him to have him to cover the powers. All of that.

You can see a version of this movie where a lot of people were just gone, well, it gets legalized. There's no movie about them fighting legalization. Yeah, totally. They win.

They eat syndrome. Court of public opinion. And maybe. Convinces the politicians.

And that's part of my argument. And I don't know about development. I'm just talking about a movie I've seen. Yeah.

And that feeds to me into the argument I'm making about, like, this is a movie that's about superheroes. And there's so many superheroes in our culture. Like, it's about superheroes in our culture. Right.

Because that's what Winston is like. Superheroes belong in our culture. They're good for people. They're forced for good.

Yeah. And Evelyn eventually, you know, when she's revealed, because at first she's more just on the deck lady, is like, superheroes are convenience. And they don't, like, you know, they don't let people help themselves. Right.

Like, you know, that's, like, my dad's dying because he's like, well, blah, we'll save me instead of, like, dealing with anything himself. Right. So her argument is, my father invested too much in this idea of superheroes. And it's just, it's like a gossamer.

It's a gossamer. Right. It's like, she says, there's that big, the big moment in the movie is that's actually Anthony Lane's boner moment. The big combo about citizens versus idealism.

We'll get it. Right. But, um. The first thing they make this pitch was, like, Elastigirl's going to be the hero.

I, at this moment in the film go, okay, so they're both in on it. They're both going to be the bad guys. Yeah. Right.

There's some weird, this is a ball and shell game that they're doing. In the same way, a thing I love about Syndrome in the first movie is he's like, I want to kill all the superheroes so that I can look like a superhero because I'll be the only one who can solve my own problem. Yes. Yeah.

He wants, right. That's his, his concept is it'll all be staged because then I look great. He wants to win over the public. And so he has to, but he should be.

I mean, he's not going to like for even a second because everybody's wristband gets knocked off and all goes wrong. So then this movie is getting so literal about the sort of like branding PR relations. Yes. Yes.

The superheroes are being sold to us. They are brands. And here they are. They're a big company.

They're kind of creepy, like Elon Musk. It's weird, right. Like they're like, what are they doing? Like a telecommunications company.

It's like, no, but they want to help the public. Right. And you're like, okay, but it seems like a lot of decisions are just being made by two people. And Odin Kirk, who has always had a dark side, is playing so positive, so cheery, so boisterous in this.

And I'm like, they have to be setting up a heel turn. Yeah. Evelyn seems more jaded. I was like, maybe she's the misdirect.

My inclination is both of them are in on it. And somehow bringing superheroes to the forefront is going to help their bottom line some cause that they have. No, right. I get that.

The second viewing is good for that because Winston's character makes much more sense. Or well, I just, Winston's character felt deeper to me on the second viewing because he's so like, it's like Bird is not making, like Bird is criticizing his sweetness almost. Where he's like, I like what I like. This stuff makes you feel good.

Yeah. Like, because he has that monologue where he's like, you know, smell the flowers. Like, you know, he's like, he's a genuinely optimistic guy. And that is kind of his undoing.

Like, he can't see the bad side of anything. And Evelyn talks about how he's like the great salesman. This question of like, who has more value than the salesman or the inventor? Yeah.

That's the part of this sort of optimistic conversation. Right. Which made me feel like, okay, he seems like he's devious in some way. Obviously, salesman, we always think of as being slippery.

Right, but that's the red word. But do you think the notion is that like, he's such a good salesman just because he is kind of that effective? That's right. He believes in it.

He's Billy Mitchell or whatever. He's just the guy who sells the passion for the thing. There is no dark side to him. No.

There's a blind spot to him. Blind spot. And that's what Screenslaver slash Evelyn is thinking. You know, where she says like, people believe what they're sold and that's a weakness.

And like, superheroes are the ultimate version of that. Where it's just like, you're the person who solves your problems. And it's like, over and over again in the movie. Like, there's this, I wrote some things down.

Like, there's like, this ad for like, so easy, even the man can do it. Like, as he's like, pulling something out of it. Like, right in the middle of a crucial scene. Like, Bert keeps dropping all this shit in where he's like, ordering on RoboCop.

Yeah. Yes, totally. There was another thing. You know, they're both selling supers, right?

Uh-huh. But they both have these sort of linkered points of view. Right. And her point of view is like, making them these like, robotic monsters at the end of the movie.

Well, he's trying to get into something about people not wanting to do the work anymore. Right. Which, you know, which feels like Brad Bert. Like, he's such an individualist.

Even if he claims like, bollocks, nonsense. I just made six movies about the power of the individual. But, you know, no, of course not. Like, a thing I've been thinking about a lot recently.

Which I think ties into both of these movies. Because there's been so much conversation about like, toxic fandom. Yes, yes. Right.

And the first movie has that. Right. Because even like, in the first movie. He's a toxic fandom.

I'm your biggest fan. Which is more clear now than when we recorded that episode in February. It's true. You know, I feel like that's a shift of like, a couple months where it's just like.

Because it's how possessed he is of his fandom. And he obviously wasn't commenting on a thing that was culturally obvious at the time. Has been doing some great work about fandom. Because she is a big fan herself.

She's someone whose career is based on her fandom of certain things. That is true. And also she has to deal with fan communities. Yes.

But she was talking about, I believe it was her, and I'm not misstributing. It was either her or anything. Yeah, I wanted to. She was saying, boy, you're annoying.

Did she talk about like, popcorn going everywhere? Yeah, exactly. She was saying that the thing that gets kind of dangerous is this idea of fandom being part of your identity. Yes, yes.

And I see the way that people talk about fandom now. Oh, I'm new to this fandom. Right. When people are like, I just started watching The Flash.

It's not that anymore. It's I'm new to the Flash fandom. We had our big, like, things that we fucking love and spend a lot of time looking into and thinking about and working on and working around and all of that. But even at my most obsessive moments, I've never felt that sort of like, this thing I love dictates what kind of person I need to be.

That is. It's the opposite. It's like, these things I love reflect on things in my personality, which I'm seeing in these other things that I like. Not I need to reflect myself.

Reflect the fandom. You're right. I do that. And I feel like that's the thing this movie is kind of grappling with, is this idea of like, superheroes make it very easy to be like, oh, I'm a pro superhero person.

Let's have superheroes. I like the costumes. All that's great. Theme songs.

And also, they'll fix everything. I don't think about anything ever again. Which, like, you see that. Which is what her dad's undoing.

You can see that with political ideology now. Where it's not just like, I like this candidate. It's like, I'm so deep in on this person. That anything he does must be the right thing to do or she.

Right. Which I think is where, like, toxic Bernie bros come from. It's like, people got so into this idea that, like, no, this is the only honest one. Right.

That then when weird shit started happening, it's like, then I have to attack the other candidates. Right. It becomes very negative. Right.

Because it becomes so personal. Some people like that about Bernie Sanders and some people like that about The Flash. Right. And Evelyn Dever, it feels like at the beginning, it's just kind of, like, dismissive of, like, don't buy into this fucking thing.

We need it. Right. She talks about convenience and, like, the myth of it, you know. And then that's what Screenslaver's monologuing about in his big monologue.

You know. Which I also, but then he's also. You watch game shows. Like, you know.

You don't talk. You watch shows. But I also. He's also talking about a sort of lack of engagement, which I guess is not doing the work.

It's wanting to live a more removed life. Like the blinders are. Right. But what I don't understand.

And let's jump ahead towards the game. You know. Sure. Not.

No, no. It's not even hard. No, but we won't. But this is my question to you.

And I don't say this and I'm like, this is why the movie's bad. I'm like, I have a practice yet. Oh, my God. Swear to me.

Oh, hey, Bats. Fuck. Do your own bit. Yeah.

This is a thing I couldn't craft watch. And I say this in the least CinemaSins. Oh, sure. Okay.

Explain to me why this isn't a. There's a problem with her plan that you can't think around. I don't understand why this is the course of action she takes. But.

Okay. Is letting her brother get the superhero things off the ground, creating a straw man, sympathizing people. Right. In order to.

Well, like, she wants the superheroes on the biggest stage possible, right? Which is this big girl. She wants to humiliate them the most public way. It's not really humiliation.

She's making them frightening. Like, it's a narrative in and of itself. Right. Like, because they get these models where they're like, you know, for too long you have mistreated us.

Right. Like, it's a whole thing. The level of manipulation, though, feels like it's so much. There's so many steps.

That's her power. Right. I mean, that's what she is. She's like an addict.

But here's my question to you. Okay. They're already illegal. Right.

At the moment the movie's starting, it's like, fuck, I guess we can't do this anymore. And all the superheroes are under threat of retirement. The only thing that gives them the curse to think they can do it again is Winston. No, it's not Winston.

People are already into it. They just rescued from, like, all the shit. The syndrome. And then immediately we're, like, shut down.

Well, they're shut down by the government. Right. But, like, so, again, one thing on point. So, Budlucky has that crucial line to me about politicians don't understand people who do good things.

Budlucky's not a thing. Yeah, right. Budlucky's the... He said.

Yeah. All right. Rick Decker. More like Rick Decker.

Come on. And then, not long after, you have this part where they're in the car, going to Winston's fancy house, and you hear over the radio people saying, like, you know, Americans trust, like, Congress less than they trust a monkey with a, you know, dart or whatever, right? Like, a monkey throwing darts. But at the end of the movie, they save the day, right?

They arrest Evelyn. What happens? What happens? What's the reaction to Evelyn being arrested from the film's best character?

Violet says, she's just, she's rich. She's just going to buy her way out of prison immediately. This is a movie about, like, total distrust in, like, the institutions, right? And he's peppering it in right from the start.

Pepper, pepper, pepper. That's good shit. And again, politically, I'm like, I don't know, Brett, but chill out. But I'm just saying, like, his vision.

A lot of ideas. A lot of ideas. If there are points in this movie... First time I saw it, I was like, a lot of ideas.

Second time I saw it, I was like, oh, this is unified. It makes more sense to me. This doesn't kill the movie for me. But there are points in the movie where I just felt a little bit of the Birdman thing, where it's like, oh, so characters are just going to speak in off-head headlines?

Sure. And you're just going to pepper in a lot of large notions that you're necessarily going to need to. Yeah, that's fair. That's a fair criticism.

In Birdman, for me, that's what drives me insane about that movie. But Birdman's just monologues, too. It's just like, ugh. And none of the characters are characters.

None of the characters are characters. So this is Uproxx fighting with... Birdman is so bad. God.

Name a character from Birdman. Apart from Birdman. Who's great, obviously. Mean Critic.

Mean Critic. Stoned teenager. That's so clearly the most embarrassing best picture one over the last 15 years. When people say otherwise, it's going to be insane.

Yeah. I think Birdman's more embarrassing than Crash. Crash is pretty bad. Crash is like a stain on the nation.

I agree. Birdman's just like a bad movie. I find Birdman so much more arrogant than Crash, though. Crash is just like, this is so fucking naive.

What was the one? What was the old movie? Oh, The Artist? Yeah.

That one's not crazy. That's just like a fucking Gentleman's Five. You're just like, yeah. Okay, yeah.

The artist's like, yeah. I mean, I wasn't mad. I was like, Birdman. I'm on board with you, basically.

But at least when I watch Birdman, nothing I'm going to. I'll be like, hey, I just want to make the score. Crash isn't even well-made. Crash is just bad.

It's like a TV movie. It's just crazy. It is crazy that Crash is almost straight to DVD and then winning this picture. Yeah.

And both fates are plausible. Right. Yeah. What I was going to say was, I do not sit there in the theater looking for plot holes or logic holes.

Sure, no. I hate that kind of movie watching. No, I know you do. I know.

I buy your argument. When she's doing this, you're just like, what? Why is this her play? Here's what I like out of movies, and I think Pixar especially has a very good background at this.

I like when they answer my questions before I even ask them. That's always a satisfying feeling. Right. When it's just like, oh, so now you've explained why that's not possible.

Why this is the one way this movie has to go. You're right. She has such an exaggerated power, which is that she can emphasize people. Right.

And there's so many directions to exaggerate. And also, outside of that, you go, she's incredibly smart and she can apparently create any technology. Sure, it's all broadcast technology. That's her thing.

She makes little cameras, she accents, it's always broadcast. Her power is great, as you said, in terms of her strategy, her technological ability. We're focusing on this one thing she can do, which is insanely powerful, but also she has even more power outside of that. And what I ask you is, here's a question.

What I ask you is, what I ask you is, here's a question I wish the movie didn't make me have to ask. Why doesn't she team up with the government? I don't know. Because she has a common, like, that's an ally with a common enemy.

So why does she let her brother go down this road and then just try to fight against her brother? I mean, or, or is it just chaos for chaos state? Then, okay, that's true. She talks about how good her brother is at selling things.

And I think she wants to harness that. She wants to get them on this big stage where she can return people against heroes forever. I don't know. I mean, that's my counter.

But I get your point. She just kind of shrugs off her brother as like, you know, he's whatever. If it was like, right. But I'm saying if it was like, I want to let him try to do this so I can not only embarrass superheroes, but him, that would be one thing for me.

I'm not saying that's the answer I want. I'm saying something like that, I would go like, well, that's why she has to do it this way. She has to let her brother to beat him at his own game. Instead, I'm like, you have to hire like hypnotized pizza boys to then present something in his face.

No, that stuff makes sense to me because that's her and Bird being like, this is all like, this is all just like narrative. It's not, there's not ideology. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you're by, you're a villain.

That's what she said. That's what Screenslaver. He's so, Screenslaver, who by the way, looks super cool. Yeah, looks cool.

I wish he was visually on screen a little more. People said that, but I was like, to me, I'm just like, he looks like a cool Skullman. Do you know what I honestly would have liked? I would have liked, and this gets into the Fantastic Four thing, a great device in the Fantastic Four is the Doombot thing, which is in there from, I think, his first appearance, where it's like Dr.

Doom, who's a dude wearing this metal suit, has a lot of robots that look just like him. So a lot of times he'll be on an entire Fantastic Four adventure and they're like, we finally got him. They're like, God damn, it's another robot. He was in his office the whole time.

And he's like, dude, the American community, bye-bye. Right. And I kind of, once they set up the Pizza Boy thing, which when she beats him in that early movie, I was like, there's no way this is actually Screenslaver. I was like, I would like it if he keeps on having to track down different Screenslavers.

If he gets to a sequence where he has 50 Screenslavers, you know? You want a Burley Brawl. Yeah, I want a Burley Brawl. But I also just thought that was a fun opportunity there that's not totally exploited.

What was the other thing I was going to say about Screenslaver? He does look fucking cool. Oh yeah, this movie is an epileptic seizure. When they had that big fight in The Flashing Lightroom, I was like, I can't believe they let him do this.

This is so crazy. It looks amazing. It looks amazing. It's pretty transcendent.

It also is going to make it fun. Yeah, I was just surprised that they didn't have a warning. I mean, I know they do. And now they do.

But it's kind of crazy that Disney is so over-conscious with anything. I know, but to me, Screenslaver, he's so comically evil-looking. I love it. Like, you know, it's all part of the gag.

So here's the thing that I kept on thinking about. I know I'm doing a lot of here's the thing. The real, you know, fear is manipulation, right? Like, how your narrative gets shaped for you without you even realizing it.

I mean, that's smart. Oh, I love that, though. That's why I'm bringing it up. Because you and I both recognize that Iron Man 3 is the best of Marvel movies Don't At Me.

It's a masterpiece. People hate it. It makes me insane. But also, I feel like when people hate it, that's always the thing they bring up.

They're like, I hate that the movie makes me invest in a fake villain for half the film only to reveal Iron Man 3 spoilers that he's actually just a medium manipulation. And I love that when we're starting out, like... I mean, that is a movie about the military industrial complex. It's a movie where Don Cheadle is rebranded into this red, white, and blue superhero, which is basically just like a shell game to kill the president.

And, like, that's... The Mandarin... Is, like, a media creation. He's the most comical version of, like, a that-time villain, which is, like, this sort of vaguely Middle Eastern hero, a villain who's like, America is very bad.

You know, like, an amalgamation of villains. They took the Mandarin who's, like, a horrible Fu Manchu. In the comics, he's just, like, literally just, like, a red Chinese villain, right? Like, he's just, like, the other.

And instead, they, in the movie, turned him into, like, a droll silver version of Osama Bin Laden. Right, exactly. Right? Which I'm watching, and I'm like, okay, first of all, Ben Kingsley swimming in the River of Ham.

Oh, boy. There's fucking rules. I love the design of the character. I like the fact they're keeping him in these videos.

They're winding him up so much. What's it gonna be like when they come face-to-face? And the reveal of, like, oh, that's all he is. He's literally a series of viral videos.

He's a piece of branding to sell this notion. But then I think... There's literally a complicated shit joke in the movie where he's like, do not go in there! Which is the moment they should have gave Ben Kingsley the Oscar.

They should have stopped the projector at the first screening and just handed him an honorary award. But I think the Killen thing really tracks in that movie. And I'm not saying Killen is, like, cinematically the best villain ever. But you also totally get where he's coming from.

I think it's a great rebuke of everything that sucks about Tony Stark. The fact that they made you buy into this franchise by a guy who's essentially an asshole, right? And it's like, yeah, he fucked over everyone for, like, 20 years until he finally gained a conscience. But guess what?

He also was, like, a war prophet here for decades before that. And also, on a micro level, look at him just, like, fucking dunking on this nerd and thinking, like, I'm so cool, I'm funny, I'm Robert Downey Jr. I can get away with it and this guy held a group for 20 years. Which is why I'm in the rules and we'll do an episode on it one day.

Want to mention Space Force. Trump is militarizing space. We need an Aloha sequel right now that deals with this. That's all I want to say.

This is a moment where Reed Hastings could step up and upload all of Netflix into the Space Force satellite. Just upload fucking that Secret Rose song or whatever the fuck it is into the satellite. It blows up. And then you fall in love with the white Asian lady and it's great.

Aloha to Aloha. Are you getting a card out of your eye? What are you doing? It's going to go crazy.

It's a Beyblade? It's not even in a card form anymore. Remember Beyblades? Do I remember Beyblades?

That's the most insulting thing you've ever done towards me. I'm starting to get a migraine. Cool. You want to take a break?

No, just keep going. I mean, you can walk out of the studios with it. No, I'm okay. I find the decoy villain thing oftentimes frustrating.

I agree with that. But Iron Man 3 is one of the examples where it doesn't deflate for me because A, I think what they're saying about prepping up this big villain is smart. We've got to get Iron Man 3. We both agree on it.

I'm watching you build this bridge right now and killing it remains satisfying. Right? I do find a gulf between Spring Slaver as a fake media idea and Evelyn, but I can't totally bridge it. I think it's a fair criticism.

I also think, I also think, he keeps doing these movies where the villains are people, inventors, tech people, with no powers. And he does keep making these movies about these sort of individual rights of inherently gifted people where the villains are not. I mean, they're gifted with intellect. But you were getting this argument on Twitter.

Isn't it a little weird that in both of these movies the villains have been non-share powers? That's what I'm saying. Will Goss broke it up. And I was like, it's fair.

And I responded. I do think it genuinely terrifying. The core thing with Evelyn and Syndrome is that they're amoral. They're not using their technology for anything but what they want.

And they don't care about killing people. And that's the big story with Helen and Evelyn at the end. That's what they're fighting about. But I think it would do him well to have a supervillain.

A classic supervillain. I think so too. Maybe he just thinks too hard about this stuff and he's like, what if I add this extra layer to it? I would love to see him make an Incredibles 3 where they're not fighting a civilian creating a straw man identity.

I would like to see someone of equal power to the Incredibles with a combating ideology. The scariness of what if someone has the same level of ability is gifted and doesn't care. Or cares about the wrong thing. Which is a basic superhero trope but it's also like, look, he's deconstructed stuff enough, our culture's deconstructed stuff enough that there's no reason not to just let Redder do a better version of that.

And in a certain way that feels more classical to just do that. Now maybe we're going to have to wait 14 more years or make an Incredibles 3. I have no idea. So let's talk about a couple of set pieces in between.

There's two parallel lines. So there's the Helen stuff and there's the Bob stuff. So the Helen stuff, the first set piece is the motorcycle set piece with the monorail that's going the wrong way. It's just rules.

And the Elastigirl splits in half. Fucking great. Yeah, that's fucking cool. My favorite moment is when she's driving on both sides of the tunnel over the train.

It's so cool. I love that. But these movies are... And also it's like, Elastigirl is endlessly fun in animation.

You can do so much shit with her. Her body, you're sort of to the cast of terms of this. Stop fucking her body that way. I also just love comedically showcasing the new house sequence which just kind of feels like animation porn for a little bit and then the comedic game reveals itself which is Dash now can't stop hitting buttons and the buttons are contrasting with each other.

Of course it's inconvenient to have water The other Helen stuff is her meeting these new superheroes. Void is the only one that isn't even a quarter of characterization the rest of them are just kind of comedic types. Right, but I'm into that. Screech.

Screech is cool. Yeah. Brick is kind of weird. Brick is...

I was like, what's going on here? Brick's fascinating. I have seen people online wondering if Brick is transphobic. Interesting.

It's just to know who voiced Brick. I don't even know who voiced Brick. I was looking and there was a lot of just kind of journeyman voice artists. Phil Lamar who plays two of them.

He has Electrics who is the electricity guy which I just like because visually I like that. And then Crusher who's funny. The un-crushed thing. The Void power hack is awesome.

She looks like Kristen Stewart. I wonder if they offered it to her. Maybe. She also kind of looks like Katy Perry.

She has a real hair color. I think facially she looks really like Kristen Stewart. I think facially you look like Kristen Stewart. Reflux who is a real Griffin character.

Yeah, I was so surprised by the fact that I wasn't all in on Reflux. I had no problems but I was like, oh man, I'm going to fucking love this guy. Barnsot Lava. Yeah, his old man.

What is that? I can't tell if it's a disorder or a power or something like that. Yeah, funny. You decide.

A comedy point. And then she has this big sequence of Screenslaver where she captures him in his house. He's Norm, a pizza delivery guy. And there's that cool shot of her unlocking the doors and you see him in the background and my whole audience going like, and the strobes fighting sequence is cool.

And then on the other side you got Bob raising the kids. I mean, this is just kind of like home run stuff to me. The Bob stuff totally works. It's so good.

It's deeply felt. It's like heart stringy. It's good. But it's also really funny.

The Jack Jack stuff is really funny. The raccoon sequence just feels like something where Burt is like, we can have so much fun doing this. It's amazing. Like a shot of him blowing up with flame and igniting all the stairs.

The thing that made me laugh incredibly hard during this movie and no one else in the theater laughed at it, they just said like, and I had to take my glasses off short of 30 seconds being like, am I the only one? The Viola plot line is Decker has to bring me. Tony's forgotten about her because Decker erases him. Right.

Which Viola can't figure out for her. She just feels like he's being an asshole. And I love the scene where Bob comes in. He's so excited.

He started being a good dad. He figured out the math thing. He sees Viola. be an old person and live my life and do the things I want.

Sure. And I renounce superheroes. Right. The garbage is at the bit that got you?

That's funny. It's when Bob thinks, I know how to solve this. We'll bring the family to that. Well, this is my favorite sequence.

Right. This is the key. It makes me laugh so much. Stand out on the movie.

Which is funny because it's less animation heavy. Well, except for the one camera you say, sure. It is so wrongheaded and he's so confident going into it. He's got the joke about like, oh, this is nice over by the phalander.

I can't remember. The rhododendrons, whatever it is. Right. And he just thinks he's in line for a dad of the year award, right?

And then Tony comes over to pour the water and she notices him. I know. It's so funny. She shoots the water out of her nose.

I mean, we're going to freeze her face is just hysterical. This is like a pop. Yeah. And I was laughing through the next 15 lines of dialogue because this is also an animation thing I love where it's like, which I finally feel like CGI's getting to the point where it's exploiting.

I feel like we lost this for a bit when we went to three animations as opposed to hand-drawn animation. The ability for a character based on circumstances or mood to completely change the shape of her head. So it's not just that water shoots out of her nose. It's like her whole head expands.

And then when she's all blurry on it, she's like, her entire chemistry changes in reaction to this thing. I was losing it. And I just, I mean, she rules. I renounce superheroes is really funny.