Interview With Sean Forker & Vance Nesbitt

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BetMDM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with eye-gaming Ontario. Come. Walk down the winding path. Don't mind the spooks and monsters.

They stay hidden within the trees. There are mysteries in this world that you need to know, and paranormal truths. That need to be told. Come.

Step up into the caravan, while we share tales of old, as well as new accounts about things you thought only existed in your nightmares. Well, not funny, Aunt. Oh, geez. This is Vance and Sean, tonight we're talking with Bunny.

Welcome back inside the caravan. I have with me, Vance Nesbitt and Sean Corker. Hi, guys. Hi, it's great to be here.

Once again, I'm back in my own caravan couch here and sitting with the one and only Sean Corker. Hello, Sean. Hello, hello, hello, everybody. Feel free to browse through the...

Yeah, I was just going to say feel free to browse through the magazines on the coffee table here. The library of lore. The library of lore. Yes, we have the, which is potions and lotions.

I think you might find that rather interesting of a read. Potions, huh? Potions. Oh, my gosh.

We do things like that at the caravan here, and we make outfits out of, you know, supple, skinned women. But that's our own little secret. We will not share that on a podcast. Anyway, you know, Sean, you asked me a question over at the existence of strange things, you know, that little show that we do over there for Radial Memphis or a Don Radial show.

It's just a little show. But you asked me a question there, so I'm going to throw it back at you now, and I'm going to ask you that question of what is it, Sean, that got you into this whole paranormal cave of slunking and all the spider web mess of paranormal. What was it that got you into all of this? Well, I grew up around it my whole life.

So I remember just as far back as I can remember watching TV shows with my dad, Arthur C. Clark's Mysterious World, Unsolved Mysteries, which I used to have to go to bed at a clock on Sunday night to school the next morning. And I'd be in my bed just like with my covers up to my eyes with that, you know, Unsolved Mysteries being playing in the living room, just scaring the hell out of me. And finally I was a little older.

I was able to watch it. It was like in search of. So it was always around it. My dad was always watching something like a documentary based or paranormal based.

And one time on our way to visit my mom's brother who lived in Virginia Beach at the time. We, I love to talk. You guys know this. You're around me enough.

And I wouldn't stop talking on a car run. I was driving my dad absolutely not. And it's a long drive. It's like a nine hour drive.

So we stopped and pick up a book along the road. And the book was, well, at a store along the road, not just lying on the road. It'd be even more weird. He stole a book from a hobo.

He just knocked the bum out and stole his book. That's why it's among us from John Green. I read the book. I was like nine at the time.

And I got hooked. And that I just, I couldn't get enough knowledge. And like, we're still going back to the 90s where there weren't a million books on Bigfoot like there are today. Or at least my library didn't have any.

And I'll admit it. Right now, if my library had a book on it, I never returned it. I kept it for myself. So I probably don't like some money because you know what?

They never had a talk when they did. I took them. No, that's fantastic. That's okay.

In my will, my wife is donating all my books to a library because nobody else. But we'll pay it forward. But I was always broke around this stuff. My grandfather always had books around the house, weird stories around the Amazon.

Actually, I still have the copy of the book he gave me. There's a first edition book called Monsters by Vincent Price. And it's not one of the totes. And it was an amazing book.

And I remember opening it up and it had a picture from the Himalayas of the famous footprint with the ice pick next to it. And I'm like, there's got to be something to this. So as I got older, I read more on it. The Internet finally became a thing when I was probably in middle school or high school.

I was the first one in my neighborhood to really have high speed Internet. So I was, you know, hot stuff. And I just assimilated everything. I could have found the BFR website.

And when I was 17, I finally got out and started interviewing witnesses and, you know, really just getting out and starting the research. I joined the PA Bigfoot Society in 2004 and Eric Altman. There's a pretty, you know, recognized name that became my mentor. And he and I became fast friends.

And it started me off on this really crazy journey I've been on now for 22, 23 years this year. Wow, that's fantastic. I love stories like that. And I love making the connection when somebody has a similar experience in their life as to what got them into it.

You know, not to make it about me, but I find that really cool that your dad actually stopped. And again, we didn't take out a whole boat to get a book from him, but that he stopped and took the time to get you a decent read that now started you on this journey. And I've always found myself, of course, I had, you know, a profound paranormal experience. But I found myself gravitated towards looking at UFO books, but right next to that was the big foot.

Yeti in the Loch Ness monster. And I'm like, whoa, wait, wow, there is a whole world of coolness out here. I didn't really know that existed. And of course, again, it's the library.

You know, it had a limited edition of the amount of books you could find on it. And then you find that thirst because you want more. So yes, fortunately, you know, let's give Poodles to those that created the Internet and to what it is today. Now we can pretty much type in anything and something will come up.

At least something. Yeah, so that's part of it. And it keeps that thirst fed, so to speak, of doing research. But yeah, I find it fun and fascinating to meet other people in this community and how they got into it because, you know, it's a brotherhood.

It really is a brotherhood. And I know Jennifer has, you know, similar stories as well, right? I mean, I do. I, it's funny you mentioned the Unsolved Mysteries.

That was something that my grandfather and I always watch together. And I remember one of the ones that scared me the most was about spontaneous human combustion. And, you know, the biggest thing was it was the truth, like, well, I don't want to say two stories. Human interaction stories like hey, this person murdered somebody and they've never been found or whatever the story is.

Those are the ones that scared me more than the paranormal ones. I agree with that. Yeah. And so.

Right, because there was tangible evidence left behind. But that part, like when you're watching one of those stories and, you know, you are one of those murderer stories and like nothing made you feel better than when they played that like update music. All right. Yes.

I know exactly what you mean. And I forgot all about that until you just brought it up. That's fantastic. It's like, Oh, God, bless.

Yes, he was caught. Oh, yes. Yeah. Because without that music, man, you're doomed for the night.

It's like, Oh, no, I grew up in a ranch style house. So like everything was on the first floor and a true glory happened to me one time is I had gone to sleep and it was about probably 10 30 or 11 at night. And I distinctly remember the screen to my bedroom window coming off and an arm coming through my window and grabbing, you know, grabbing around, trying to get into my room. Oh, yeah.

No. Oh, yeah. My dad came into the room, saw like my curtain movie. So my dad ran outside and chased this SOB down the street.

I don't know if my dad ever got it, but I'd never seen my dad do so fast in my life. So somebody like breaking into the house in my room. So after that, I encouraged my dad to nail my screen to the window. And he's like, what if there's a fire?

I'm like, who cares? Yeah. Thank you. Just put jail bars around my windows.

That will be fine. Thank you. Oh, my God. How terrifying is that?

So these human stories that you're talking about, like with that connection, like people scare me far more than the paranormal. And I don't even mean that to be from a paranoid delusional standpoint. Like these things that are paranormal, there's always that part of us that's like, maybe they exist or maybe they don't exist, right? Like Bigfoot and I've had my own account and changed my mind in that.

But there's nothing scarier than being in a moment. Like where there's real, you're in real mortal danger from an actual human being. Humans are far more lighter than anything we could ever investigate. Oh, absolutely.

I mean, we're the most violent species on this planet. Well, right. And the fact that there's people out there that just don't care and how far people will go. It's, yeah, it's terrifying.

The real monster. It is. So like that update down? You know, that would be great.

I love that. I'm like, oh, great. They got this guy. Now onto the name of him.

And guys like all episodes of like Unsolved Mysteries are on Amazon now. Oh, really? With your fix. Every single season with Robert Stack, who I will never be able to smoke enough cigars.

To get a voice like Robert. Oh, my gosh. And I'm trying. Well, not.

I'm trying. I'm trying and I don't think I can do that. You know, the other, the other big thing too, that really opened the door for me and this kind of funny goosebumps. Yeah, I was about six years old on the very first one came out and then I think I was about eight or nine when I really started getting them like every year at the school book fair and I just, you know, I can get enough.

And then there was that scary stories to tell in the dark. Yep. Oh, yeah. So are you afraid of the dark?

Do you remember that? Oh, my gosh. So I found it on YouTube and they don't have all the episodes, but they have quite a bit and I sat my girls down and I'm like, you've got to see this and they were so into it. Yeah.

Are they? Yeah, they're bringing it back. Oh, I don't know when, but they are reviving the show. I still don't mind the other day.

I should post stuff more often. That's fantastic. They're bringing back a lot of the Nickelodeon primetime stuff that was doing really well for them. I see that it is getting revamped and brought back in a different carrier and format, but still they're bringing those shows back, which they worked.

They did for sure. Yeah, our generations and I messed up at all. No. Actually, you know what?

I have to say, we're pretty good. We had a few missed Epsilon, but we're pretty good. Like this generation, they're screwed. You know, I have to say before I forget, I didn't get to listen to the last episode of like the whole thing of the existence of strange things on Friday.

I didn't get to listen to all of it, but Lauren was talking about the goat man and I got so excited because there was a book and I, gosh, I think I was in fifth grade. And I don't, and it sucks because I don't remember what the book looked like. I don't remember the public monster. Well, no, like, like, we're a monster.

The like worth and yeah, the like worth monster and I think he brought up a public monster too. The story that I read in this book and it had all these different stories. Like it had one about this black dog that was kind of an omen and then it had this goat man of lovers lane and it talked about how it would bang on their car. And I always wanted to find that story and read more about it.

And then I think one said in the chat that there's still sightings today. I really do. Wow. Well, I probably wrote the book.

I want to go. I mean, maybe that's a dumb decision, but yeah, and could you imagine like coming across that. I keep laughing a lot because it keeps writing books. He's not saving any topics for the rest of us.

It's cool. Yeah, this is true. When my when my co-cam comes and chases me around the house, I'll have something to write about. That might be the only thing that's left by the time long.

Yeah. Right. All right. You would really go on.

I make so much fun a lot of books, but I really love those guys. There's so much fun to work with. And you know, they're both, you know, significantly older than me. And, you know, I'll push them around in their, you know, in their chairs and we'll go out and we'll have a good time.

They're going to kill me. But no, I don't know. That's awesome. Well, when this episode airs, we'll just make sure that there is a notation on their, uh, not for which or one.

You may not listen to this. You may not. You know, and they're both controversial guys though, because butch and lawn are both guys that will tell you what's on their mind. You don't have to push them very hard for them to do it.

And they, you know, lawn gets a lot of flack because I think people don't think he's skeptical enough. But actually, when you get to know lawn, there's quite a bit of skepticism underneath the, you know, all the stuff. But he reports it as it comes in. And I think that's what I can't stress the people enough.

And a lot of times it's like, well, of course you say that you work with them. Well, yeah, I do. And he's earned my respect over the years, but he reports this stuff as it comes into the witness and you're getting the first-hand account without editing unless he's got to put it up because some people don't write very well. But it's, he feels it's not his place to put words in the witness's mouth as you're reading it.

Then he'll do a follow-up with his thoughts and, you know, that is for people who can do whatever they want with that. But for the majority of what's posted on Phantom's and Monster's and what comes through, that is right from the witness. It doesn't get any fresher than that. So like the full thing was Chicago, right?

Because he's taken a lot of black over Chicago. And I don't think it's there because there's a lot of people behind the scenes on it. He's putting out there what people are saying and what people are reporting. And they're thinking, well, this isn't possible.

Okay, that's fine. Law's not saying it is possible. Law's not the one out there seeing it. These people are seeing it's possible.

And unfortunately, the majority of us live. I live quite a bit away from Chicago. If not, Vance and I would be eating some pizza right now. But he can't get out there and invest here.

So we have to rely on the investigators that are out there. And what they're reporting back to us. And is that the best way to do it? No, but it's what we got.

And unless people want to start shutting up and start putting up the money for an ill unlimited travel fund, it is what it is. And this is what's being put out there. He wrote a book on it. He gave his opinions.

He also gave the opinions of everybody else in the task force. So now you're not just getting what he believes. You're getting what everybody in that group believes. And I think that's pretty extraordinary.

I don't think it gets much better. Right. Yeah, no, exactly. I mean, for me personally, when it comes to, you know, is that true?

Is that real and the whole skeptical thing? I don't really jump on either side. I really like to play with, well, what if? What if it was?

Let's pretend. Because what if is where imagination is, right? And there's a lot of people out there today that will tell you. Well, shame on them for reporting on this and shame on them for writing a book.

While you're going to go write your own book and write your own article and attempt to sell a skeptical viewpoint on the same viewpoint that the guy who's believing the witnesses is putting out there. So it's okay for you to make money on it saying it doesn't exist, but nobody else can make money off it, you know, under the same premise. So where is the where's the real problem with this? You have skeptics making money.

Off witnesses who say they're seeing something by trying to disprove them and discredit them. And you have somebody trying to prove and help research what they're saying, making money off it. So where's the distinction and where's the wrong? That's what I don't understand.

Right. I agree. It is a very good point and it's very true. You know, I believe it was last Thursday.

I was out and about doing my job. And I'm the type of person I'm always looking up. I always look up. It's just because what am I going to see?

And something caught my eye at a very high altitude, but it was a large flying something, not UFO, because it was flapping its wings. But this thing was that a really high altitude, but I couldn't really make the distinction enough to say, well, could it be? It could be, but I just keep it to myself because I didn't have enough tangible proof for what I'm looking at to say. Oh, my God, line, I saw it.

But, hey, for all the reports that have come in, something that's going on, something has to be going on with all the reports that were coming in. And for people. It's like John Green said with Bigfoot fans. It's like John Green said with Bigfoot.

And if all of them were proven to be a hoax, but one, one report was still legitimate, and that made it all worth it, right? Oh, right. Absolutely. And it's the same way with the Chicago sighting.

I need to step on you there. Sorry, but it's not even happening too much. And I have a real problem with, you know, we talked about just a few moments ago. You know, people, skeptics, making money off it, and believers making money off it, or research making money.

The only time I have a problem with it is when somebody's deliberately hoaxing to make money off it. Right. That's the problem. And there's that fine line in the middle.

And if the witnesses are reporting these, and it's being investigated, and some people don't like the way things are being investigated, or that witnesses aren't always available, that's on the witness, first of all, that's not on us. There's a confidentiality in place for a reason to protect them from being on slotted by believers and skeptics. They just random run of the know people who maybe these people don't want their family to know they saw something. It's traumatic enough to experience it.

Let alone now you have, you know, you're out of family yet to get with everybody's making money, because you saw the great waffle man of Tucson, Arizona, you know, it could be something dreadful and it could have affected them in a very traumatic way. But it's so, you know, if we can't talk to them, they're not available to everybody. Well, have a forbid they have to be hoaxer. I don't believe in that in that either.

And I didn't mean to take this. And I just had a little bit of a platform here. And I wanted to soapbox on it because it's been on my mind. I wrote a small snippet of it on the Existers page.

And I just wanted to follow up on it and put that out there when I get an opportunity, because it's not there. These guys do a lot of work. And let's just see where this goes. Like Jen said, what if, what is wrong with living in the realm of what if?

And in this dang near diastopion age we live in right now, what is so wrong with a little hope and the little thing? It's just what it's not hurting. No, it's not hurting anybody. All right.

So my point is, look, if Bigfoot was a hoax, and it's been going on for the thousand years that it has, the human race creating the hoax is a bigger story than Bigfoot itself. So right there is kind of a tangible thing to say, maybe something really is going on here. And I think the same thing is with this Chicago flying humanizing in the same way. If this is all a hoax amongst people, I think that's the greater story than an actual flying bat-winged creature.

Now, then it kind of proves that we can create a mass hysteria just by the power of suggestion is that strong. Right. Yeah, I know. And yet none of us have an answer still, but it's fun to look.

It's definitely fun to look. And I hear cryptids myself in the back. Did you hear that? Do you know what that was?

Sorry. I don't apologize. Well, before I forget, I was just going to say that it's crazy because, you know, for years, people have been talking about, you know, monsters or what have you, you know, all the different books and cave paintings and movies, you know, and all this stuff. And then I know that within my own personal life, I've seen a lot of just weird stuff that I can't necessarily explain.

And I would really be shocked if everything was not real. It just wouldn't make sense. Right. I mean, there's too much evidence to be like, oh, no, it's not real.

And Sasquatch is a role and, you know, whatever. No, I agree with you. And I think that just really fits into the same vein as to what we were really just discussing, that that would be the bigger story than the actual creature itself. And so I do find that really fascinating.

But, you know, do you believe in leprechauns? I don't know. I have a story about a leprechaun. Do you?

I want to hear it. Oh, I'm fascinated. Unfortunately, today is right here. That's right.

We may as well have a leprechaun story. So that comes to an all same patty day leprechaun story. Well, okay. So it's two different stories, but it's really the same one.

My sister had a friend that experienced this. And then I also had a friend who experienced this when she was in elementary school. And it's unique because my sister lives four hours apart. And so it just makes it more interesting to me.

So when my friend was really little, she saw this thing that was really short, you know, shorter than, I don't know, it was like, I would say about the size of a one or two year old. But it was, it was built like it looked like, you know, an adult, and it had a kind of a twisted, gnarly face. And it tried to drown her. I chased after her and she was by the pond out in her backyard and tried to drown her.

What? Mm hmm. Yep. Oh, messed up.

Yeah. No, it is. And it really, it, it upset her for a long time. I mean, we were in middle school or early high school and she told me about it.

And you could still see on her face that she, it was like it was yesterday. And then my sister's friend had a similar experience. It didn't try to drown her. She wasn't by a pond, but it had chased her and tried to grab her.

So, you know, who knows? I will never eat Lucky Charms the same way ever again. I mean, whenever I have a little con. Well, I've always heard of them in a very sinister way.

I've never heard anything good about them. Well, you know, ever since I saw that movie with Jennifer Aniston and Warwick Davis as a leprechaun, I could never think a leprechaun thing way again. Right. In fact, I blame that movie for me always wanting to kick little people in the head.

Oh, oh my goodness. No offense, little people. It's nothing against you. I blame Willie Davis.

He didn't represent you very well. Right. Right. And then you punt right in the head.

One of those things happened to me at the end of his life. I could not deal with the leprechaun. No. I see a leprechaun.

It's going in my lawnmower. Oh my goodness. Everybody, if you're out there listening, get them before they get you. You, exactly.

See, you know, that kind of goes back to a conversation. I think maybe we all had a while ago about, you know, your favorite monster and why. If there's going to be a monster, let's have it be a cloverfield or Godzilla. It's big.

I can see where it's at and I can run away from it. But these little leprechauns and little tiny aliens and little zombie killers. No, dude. I can't see where you're hiding that.

No. No, those are much worse for me. Much worse. Extra-terrestrials scared the concept of alien abduction horrifies me.

And I don't know why to my knowledge. I've never been abducted by aliens. But just the thought of something being able to take you against your will. Yeah.

In the middle of the night. Not emotionally. It's really, really frightening to me. Well, I will give you a piece of advice, Sean.

Okay. And take this advice. It doesn't get any better the older you get. It does not.

I thought, okay, it'll be a phase thing and I'll grow out of it. No. Thirty-some years later, I'm still just as terrified of that as I was then. I'm like, yeah, no.

I don't know about camping out in the middle of nowhere. And no. I'm just like, you know, the worm on the hook. I'm just waiting myself for them to come down and take me away.

And then over the years, I'm finding out, no, no, no, no. See, they can walk right through your walls or right through your bedroom window and take you. I'm like, wait, what? Oh, no.

Now this is not cool. My room is my sanctuary. You cannot just walk through the walls and take me. So yeah.

That whole time is so terrifying. Paul Sinclair, the gentleman we just interviewed in the show played last Friday night. You know, he talks about that in detail, about some of the experiences he went through as a child with alien abduction. We actually spent more time on that interview with that segment than we were planning on.

We went a lot longer and more detailed because Lon just automatically drew comparisons to the David Eckert case that he's been working on for, you know, over a century. And those, those, not really a century. People are going to take that literal and it was meant to sarcasm. But, you know, those situations, like I can only empathize with people because I've never experienced it, but they have my complete empathy.

Just imagine seeing a Bigfoot's one thing, seeing a UFO one thing. Imagine being the person that is being abducted should something like that be a legitimate bona fide thing. And I'm not saying it's not, but let's just put that part out there in case, right? And being that person that's continually experiencing this and doesn't have anybody to go to to talk to.

And then finally, they get the courage to go talk to somebody. And it's like, wow, this is absolutely incredible. Like, it's just happening to people. There's no support groups for that that you can go to a local town, you know, like I was abducted on Tuesday.

Like, if there's nowhere, you can go and say, hi, I'm Sean Porter. I'm an alien abductee. And I heard Prober. And you just can't go and do that.

And like the trauma, these people, and I say that a lot because the more I've talked to witnesses over the years about just generally big, but I've done home investigations. I've done a lot of different things. Like I've got a background in Bigfoot, but I've really done a lot of different investigations except for UFOs. I haven't done those yet.

But talking with people, there's a psychological aspect of this where you're as an investigator and a researcher, you're a part psychologist. We're many different hats in the course of an investigation. And you're a real true, and I truly believe, unfortunately, or I'm just a full-blown empath. I'm really good at feeling how people feel and knowing situations by feeling.

And my wife will tell you it's really strange. You can tell when you're being bullshit. There's a body language component to it. There's a eye contact portion.

And there's just a sense of the person's personality and expression when it all gels together. You can tell when there is a legitimate situation that has occurred to these people. Nobody is that good of an actor that can put it all together. And you meet some of these people that have had these experiences.

And I get a home investigation once. And the one person that was experiencing a home was a seven-year-old autistic boy. And he was cognitive. He had the ability to communicate, you know, not fully able to articulate what he was feeling, but a little meter.

And I went with him in his room, and I scanned everything in his room to just give him a little sense of security that there was nothing in there that occurred to him in his closet. I sat in his closet with him. I scanned teddy bears and pillows. And anything he brought to me, I scanned it just to show that it wouldn't ding the meter.

And like this kid was scared. And, you know, you're able to give him just a little bit of relief in the moment to know that there's nothing going on here. But like fear, I just can't stress it to people that, you know, just call these people liars and that this stuff doesn't happen. Like, sit with a witness and somebody who's a legitimate witness, not somebody who's trying to sell their story to whatever the show.

It's not hard copying anymore, but TMZ, whatever. Like, here's a real difference between an experience and a hoaxer. And if you can't tell that distinction, get the hell out of the field now. You don't belong in it.

Exactly. Right. No. No.

What some of these people go through. It really is. It is heart-wrenching. And, you know, I'm that same vein of, you know, you saying hoaxing.

So, over the last few days, you know, I have been just kind of archiving on my own time here. And still to this day, there is more tangible proof that this particular video is not a hoax, that it is an actual on CGI video of the UFO that was recorded over the Turkish sea where they zoom in and you can see those big-eyed aliens sitting behind the windows of this thing in Zoom. Now, it's not crystal clear, but it's clear enough where you can see two of them sitting there moving around in this craft. And yet still, it has been analyzed and scrutinized just like, you know, you know, the Patterson Gimlin film and nobody yet can say it is definitely a hoax.

They can't. Now, the beauty of the Patterson Gimlin is it was film. There was no CGI or alternating. So, anything that you saw had been done through, well, this video is, you can tell, I don't know, sometimes you can tell CGI and sometimes, yeah, it's a challenge.

But this video creeps me out every time I see it. And if it is a real video, that verifies what these people claim are abducting them. Wow. I have enough proof for me right there to say, yeah, okay, I totally buy into that because you can clearly see both of these entities sitting and it looks like, you know, a cap and window or something on this gigantic ship that they're zooming in on.

Just, you can YouTube it. It's just look up, Turkish UFO. And I'll be darned if I forget the gentleman's name, the doctor, who passed away within the last year that was doing the surgeries to remove probes and so on that work done. I just want them to matter too.

Was it Lear? Was it? No, no, no. Oh, was it?

Oh boy. I know. Was it a patient? Was it a patient 14 or something with a new documentary?

Oh, yeah, that's possible. But he did work on Whitley Schreiber and he tried to do his surgery. And I know he just recently passed away. But he was there during the filming of that UFO video in Turkey because they were there for UFO conference.

And that was the creepy part of it all. They all came out, you know, a break time after the conference and it's dark out and somebody had their cameras set up on tripods. And sure enough, they see the thing way off on the horizon of this light that's just covering there. And of course, fortunately, they had, you know, a decent camera with telephone, you know, a telephone, a lens on it and was able to zoom in on the thing while recording.

That was how fantastic is that. But oh, what you see in that video, it creeks me out and I'm like, okay, if that not holds then this is actually really going on with these people. Right. Well, I mean, I don't know if I've ever, I know that I've talked to you and Shannon about it, Vance, but I don't think that I've talked about it publicly with that trim that I had.

And I mean, I don't think Sean knows about it, so I mean, I'll share a little bit. I feel like I have a little bit of insight to what the people go through, just because there was one night that, um, I don't know if you want to call it a dream or very, very realistic dream or what you want to call it, but it consisted of me laying on this table. And there was, there was other people there and there was these, they look like humans, but they were, they were really pretty though. One had red, the gorgeous red hair and other one had like blonde hair and they communicated telepathically.

And I remember I was wearing kind of this white, um, I don't know, like an oversized shirt. Well, they, they stuck a needle in my left arm and they injected me with something and they told me, you know, not to worry that everything was going to be okay. And they left the room through these double doors that kind of swung. And I remember the person that was on the table next to me was another woman and they were all women.

Um, she, she didn't really have a response to me, which I thought was weird. And I'm just like, okay, they're gone and I need to leave. I need to get out of here. And so I get up off the table and I run through a different set of doors and I am all of a sudden I'm in this.

The widest room that you've ever seen. And it's just, I don't know, super clean and, and then everything just blurs out. Well, I wake up the next morning and I, and I have a puncture wound on that arm. Oh, wow.

And it's, it's really, um, it's really disturbed, you know, it's served me ever since. You know, so I don't know. I don't know. I wouldn't even know how to begin to tackle that one, honestly.

And I think when you have dreams that are so vivid, like, you know, you could chalk up a lot of things. Oh, the mark on the arm is, is, uh, coincidental. I don't usually believe in coincidence. Uh, uh, I'm sorry you had that dream, uh, or experience.

I guess you don't know really what the, you know what to call it. All I know is I was writing them down and keeping a record of them. And I know Juan would encourage you to do the same thing, like keep a record of what you're dreaming. If you, any other time, uh, if there's, if you're sleeping, it's kind of hard to notate missing time.

You know what I mean? Well, I was sleeping for 10 minutes, but it felt like 12 hours. That happens all the time. But like if there's just any subtleties that you notice in your day-to-day routine, if you notice during the day you're missing some time, just notate everything you can down and take it to somebody that does have some experience in dealing with these situations.

And I would probably say reach out the lawn and talk the lawn about it because he might be able to help you through it too. See, it's, it's, I mean, I have a lot of dreams that are vivid and stuff, but to be that, I think that that has to be the most real, that I've ever experienced anything. And the only unique thing surrounding the event was the fact that, um, my husband had drove out late at night. It was probably around 11 or so.

And he drove out, we live out by backcountry roads and there's a park. And he drove up there and there was this light, just this bright, white, but kind of blue light. It was like it was a helicopter light, but there was zero sound, there was nothing. And, you know, he was just automatically terrified and he turned around and he drove away as fast as he could.

And we went back the next day. And it felt like, I don't know if the right words electric, but it was, I don't know, it felt like that. And there was nothing, yeah. And there was nothing in that area where he told me that the light came from, there was no light source, nothing.

But if you're sensitive, you may pick that up anyhow. Like, you, you may just, it's like somebody who's, you know, arthritic and they can feel the weather coming, you know, if you're sensitive as it is, you might be able to feel that regardless. Right. No, that's a really good analogy to put it that way that, you know, being sensitive, yeah, you might be able to pick up on whatever residual might be left behind.

And I don't know, of course, the experience too, leaves you kind of on the edge of your seat to begin with. But, yeah, if you get to that area and you're picking up, you know, a sense that, you know, I think you kind of know what I mean. And I'm sure our listeners understand exactly what that is too. You're picking up all that residual effect of what may have been there is making a connection with an experience that you had.

Yeah, it's a puzzle piece, but it's a translucent puzzle piece and it's hard to find a place to put it. But, you know, that's why we all do this. Often times, guys, I've wondered if those that have experienced paranormal things or have experienced, you know, something traumatic, if they don't have some sort of perceptive ability to see beyond the veil and now they're able to see things more than. And it may be because it's after midnight here on the East Coast, I'm tired.

But are you able to see more than what naturally needs the eye because you've already been experienced? Does that make any sense? Oh, yeah. What I said to my son, it's like leveling up in a video game, like all of a sudden you've now blocked this ability to.

And I don't know, like, because I remember. And the reason why I'm glad you asked the question at the beginning, how I got started and all this. And I grew up in a family where we talked about it because my father, my uncle and my grandfather have all had experiences with ghosts or spirits. They lived in a house in Johnson City, New York, out on Hays Road.

I don't even think you can get there nor the house doesn't exist. But they lived in an old restored farmhouse. And one night, my grandfather had come home from work and lay down on the couch and saw a woman in colonial garb walk right through the living room and walk right through the wall. And he was never interacted with him, but grandpa said it was like almost like watching something in playback.

You know, you've got a residual haunting type thing going on there where they can see and they can't interact. And my dad also had very similar experiences in that house. And I've always wanted to go back to the house like I said, I don't know if it exists anymore. And see if there is something there that maybe, you know, I'd love to experience something like that.

I don't recall having very many of my own experiences with, like, ghosts per se. I have had a shadow person experience. It was incredibly scary. And actually happened in the house I would have now.

But I was in bed lying with my wife. And all of a sudden I saw this really dark, darker than dark of my room. And if you guys know what I'm talking about with shadow people, like dark, standing in the corner of my bedroom. And it frightened me so bad guys.

I started picking things up and started throwing it at it. But my wife rolls over. She goes, what is wrong with you? I said, there's something standing in the corner of our bedroom.

Of course she runs over and hits the light and there's nothing there. But I'm laying here in bed looking over at that corner of the room. And there was something standing there as clear as day. And I had just come not too long before that from a home where we had done a pretty serious investigation.

Where we had something significant happen to the basement of this house. And I felt maybe later that that was something that either tried to attach itself to me and come along for the journey. Or something that I just happened to spontaneously, you know, experience. But it scared me.

And, man, that freaked me out for a while. And I've never experienced it again. But I experienced it that one time. And that was not for me.

So these people that have had those shadow experiences, I can empathize with that. You got to hold this ball game. There's a finister about it. There's a level of fear.

And when I say black eyes, like it is the heart of darkness black. Like I've never seen anything in mass of that dark. Like a boy in the shape of a humanoid figure. Oh, yeah.

No, that's. Sorry. I was just going to say that's what my sister and I have encountered at the foot of our beds since we were small. And without saying anything to our children, our children are seeing that stuff too.

Well, I just got goosebumps. I just got goosebumps. If I could try on a series of like goosebumps, it's scary. It is.

It is. And I was talking to somebody and they said that they did hear something somewhere about it being hereditary, which doesn't make any better. But I mean, at least if it's written down somewhere, I might be able to find out more information. Go ahead.

Yeah. I'm sorry. That just kind of leads back to what you were just talking about, Sean, about, you know, if you have that experience, maybe you open up and you become a little bit more apt to it. But that was the first time when Jennifer brought that up to me.

That was the first time I heard that maybe it's hereditary. Maybe there's something in the DNA and it is hereditary and they identify with whatever that hereditary thing is like a cancer. Okay. Cancer runs through certain families, more prominent than it does in other families.

Well, definitely. This might be kind of an attribute to that as well, that this is a hereditary problem. And maybe that's where this paranormal thing needs to be investigated at. And I find that just, wow, now you're going down an entirely different unexplored road medically to try to figure out what it is.

We don't go down these roads. We'll never know. We'll talk about this stuff. That's how we build a case case for Jenny's in Jen's case, like, you know, at least from our interactions and what I've listened to, you know, there's some sense of abilities you have, correct?

Yeah. Does your sister share any sense of abilities? She, I mean, a little bit, but she's always said that I was a lot. It was more intense for me than it ever was for her.

And of course, you know, your children might still be younger. They might not even kind of recognize it yet, you know, because with kids, you know, it's the thing I always talk about with children is children will see everything, right? Imaginary friends and we kind of scoff at it, but kids are uncorrupted by the world we live in until they become older and we tell them things don't exist and they stop believing it. You know, Santa exists and see you say, hey, Santa doesn't.

Right. And it's the same thing with everything else. Like kids have imaginary friends. Are they really imaginary friends?

Are they really playing with somebody that's there? We just can't see them. It's not the first one to have that thought, right? Let's be honest.

But kids, as we get older, we get indoctrinated into the world we live in. We start thinking about things that are, you know, we start killing ourselves with responsibility and lose that imaginative creative. Some people do, not everybody. And I think people that are a little bit more sensitive or a little bit more geared towards you know, that growing up with either a simpler life or not having distractions, notice these things a lot more prevalently.

And that could be something that, you know, we should explore too. Heaven forbid somebody walks around with an iPad these days. Like we don't notice the things that are in this world until sometimes it's too late. But with kids, like they still have that freedom and that freedom of thought that we lack.

And there's got to be something in there. We could find a way to blend the technology with that ability. We might be on to something. Right.

Right. I've watched my kids when they were, gosh, how old I want to say anywhere between eight months and 15 months I've seen them interacting with something that wasn't there. And it really felt like there was something there. And it is one thing that, you know, like your family, it's something that we talk about because I don't believe in telling people that oh, it doesn't exist because you need to know.

Also, I feel how to protect yourself in certain situations. Yeah, no, and there was one experience too with my grandfather. He passed away and it was only a couple of months after he passed away. He, when I was little, he would carry dinosaurs in his pocket for me.

He would get them from the grocery store and he'd bring them home. And that's nothing I ever talked about with anybody. And it wasn't anything that I really did for my kids. And one day my oldest, who was really young at the time, gosh, she was five or so.

She just comes up to me and she says, pop it down has a dinosaur in his pocket. And of course I crumbled before. So, yeah. How would you have known that, right?

Exactly. Exactly. That's a perfect example. And it's happened.

And it's happened to a lot of people. And we hear these stories. They're talking to folks and listening to different people over the years, different TV shows. Like there's all kinds of stories, chronicling this.

We still refuse to, not we, but the public and general refuses to acknowledge this stuff is more than just either you've coached them or they just had details that there's no way in hell they would have unless they really experienced them, right? Right. And those stories to me are remarkable. There's something about that, something genuine that you can't force feed and feel.

And this is a crazy field. It's, you know, still by many considered to be a pseudo science, the field of paranormal investigating. But I think the key is I don't call it a science really, guys. I call it an investigation.

It's an ongoing investigation with many different parts, with many different facets and many different topics. Right. And you just can't narrow it down. You can't treat them all the same.

And there's no, there's a certain amount of belief one has to have in the witness or the certain amount of skepticism you also have to carry with you at all times. You never take any face value. But sometimes the best explanation and the best answer is what's in front of you. This is what they experienced.

You know, they say the onus is always on the person making the claim. I don't know if that's always fair. Because how can you prove something nobody's willing to believe to begin with? Just like your UFO, you know, the Turkish UFO, the dichotomy of video or photographic evidence.

If it's too clear, it's CGI. If it's not clear enough, it's garbage. There's no correct. Exactly.

You're going to be spicing the metals and idiots on all fronts. But you're going to be fighting the war on two fronts. You're never going to win because it's never going to be good enough for anybody. It doesn't matter.

All the evidence we'll ever have doesn't matter until we either crash a UFO on our own and drag it in and drag it in cabinets out on CNN or, you know, just, you know, kill a big flood. And like both of these instances require the death of something to prove that it exists. And if you don't have a fundamental issue with that, I think there's something wrong with you. Right.

We're never going to win. And we're never going to make people happy. And I think the other weak argument that hoaxers and not hoaxers, but skeptics always make, because they always attack the education or intelligence level, the person who's experiencing something. I'm a pretty smart guy.

I think so. I'm a pretty nice guy. I'm a pretty smart guy. I'm not college educated.

Does that make me any more, uh, any, uh, less credible than, uh, Dr. Hyne, you know, who experiences UFO? He's got a different criteria in an academia. Those people are weird to begin with.