Janelle Monáe: We Should Thank Our Exes

What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. Janelle Monet, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thank you so much for having me.

First of all, I'm just so excited to meet you. I'm a huge fan of all your work. I was listening to your music on my way here, and I'm like, OK, you are giving sexual, sensual, fun, part of it. It gives all the vibes your album is amazing.

I'm so happy to have you here. Oh, thank you so much for having me, Alex. Of course. I'm a big fan of your show, of your experience, rather.

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OK, tell me how your summer's going. You were on vacation. Where were you? Let us pretend we were there with you.

Please. I'm like, can we all just go on vacation for the whole summer? Come on, everybody. Everybody, let's do this.

Let's all agree that summer's are for vacations paid for by the government. I love this energy. Paid for by the government. We're going to manifest it here now.

Because it's like when you were younger, I feel like summer's were always vacation because off of school. When you become an adult, nothing is fun anymore. We need to go on vacation. OK, so where were you?

OK, so I was in Ibiza, Ibiza, Spain. And then I stayed there for probably five or six days, which was an experience. It is a party place. So we did not go to sleep.

I went with 10 of my other friends. And we didn't go to sleep till like seven in the morning, every morning. I can't even say night, but it was so fun. It was that oo-oo-oo-oo, that oo-ooosh, oo-oosh music.

I kind of like oo-oosh, but I need like some hip hop, some something mixed in with it. But it was so fun. The sun sets were beautiful. And then the second portion of the vacay was Jamaica.

Oh, I've never been. Oh, Choreos. Beautiful people. The food, the chicken patties, the beef patties, the shrimp curry, the plantins.

I had at least 152 plantins. What? One by one. Yeah, the water.

I was saying that. Oh, it was like, it was heaven. So I will say I'm sort of mentally still there. It's OK, we can keep it chill.

We're on vacation this summer. Like, we're just going to relax today, OK? Let's relax. And it's so interesting that you say, like, is kids growing up?

It just reminded me. Like, I didn't take vacations as a kid. OK. I think that's why I'm so adamant about it now.

I didn't, you know, my parents worked a lot. And we didn't get the opportunity to go outside of Kansas. So I didn't take my first vacation until really my first album came out. And you were like, I deserve this.

I'm making up for lost time. As you should. That's phenomenal. I feel like when I go on trips with my friends, there's someone in the friend group that's like the planner, that's like the reservations in the itinerary person.

And then there's people that are more like chill and just going with the flow. Who are you in the friend group? Oh, my God. I'm the one actually sending out the group ticks.

Like, dinner, I could be at the club. It could be four in the morning. I'm like, lunch is going to be served at 2 PM, breakfast for anybody between nine and noon. Dinner's going to be eight.

Like, I love making the itineraries. I'm that friend. You're the dream, though. I'm, yeah.

Like, people are like, you know, why are you doing it? And I just, I don't know. I just love curating experiences. Yeah.

I grew up, actually, throwing parties with my best friends, middle school, sixth grade, seventh grade. We would rent out this location in one of our friends' neighborhood, this little white building. And we would charge people $1 to get in. And I would hide in the bathroom because I didn't know who was going to come.

I had so much anxiety around it. And then once it would get packed, my friends would come underneath the stall because I locked myself in the bathroom. They'd be like, it's packed. Come out.

Come out, bitch. Get out. Get out. And so I've just always loved curating experiences for people.

I mean, I think that's a great trait and quality to have. Like, I feel like that makes a lot of sense like what I wanted to talk to you about today is obviously your new album, The Age of Pleasure, is out. And while I was listening to it, I'm like, you have such a specific great vibe. It's like very infectious, which I love.

And I'm curious, are you currently in your age of pleasure? Have you always been, and what is age of pleasure to you? Ooh, that's a great question. I wasn't always in my age of pleasure.

I've been in the age of fear, age of anxiety, age of just worry, a fight, fighting back against systems that seek to oppress folks like myself and the people that I love and centering that. And with this album, which I actually don't even call an album, I say that it is a soundtrack to a lifestyle. It's a lifestyle. We live this.

I wrote this project for my friends and for me. And I was just like, if we fuck with it, that's all I care about. So I would throw parties at my house with my friends who own this party collective called Everyday People. And if I knew we were going to be having and hosting them on a Saturday, that Monday or Tuesday, we would go into the studio and we would write two to three songs that would work in the DJ's playlist.

I wouldn't tell anybody it was me. I would not make a big thing about it. And I would be very nervous, like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, are people going to sit down? Because if people sat down, it was not going to go on the album.

If people were not shazamming, it wasn't going on the album. And so every song that you hear, all of my friends, all of the people who were with us celebrating in this safe space, they are responsible for the songs making the album. That takes a lot of confidence, but also just self-awareness. To be like, I'm going to play my friends my songs.

They're going to have no fucking ideas to me and watch let's see if they vibe with it. So like, because I was thinking, when I was listening to champagne shit, I was like, OK, this is a vibe. Like, I would listen to this, like, getting ready with my friends, like, getting ready to go out. But then I'm wondering, like, so you're sitting there being like, do they like it today?

And then you're like, check that's going on the soundtrack. I'm like, how do people move? OK, I saw some people shazamming. And then some people would be like, wait, is this?

But I never would confirm. I would go hide and be like, you know, having somebody else tell me what's going on. But yeah, like, it's as an artist, presenting anything before the world gets it. Like, for that first time, I talked to a lot of my artists and they were all like, it is one of the most like scary things ever, scary feelings to have because it comes from such a pure place when we create and for not to be accepted, you don't know, you know, you take it.

But for me, I got, I was like, I'm ready. I'm OK, I had to heal some shit, you know, because some of that is attached to just rejection issues, abandonment issues. Like, people don't like my stuff that could go down to the root of an issue that you just need to fix. And I definitely used a portion of this pandemic to sort of work on that and to get to to my own, you know, traumas that I had to heal and to get to a place where I was like, wait, I've been really centering fighting so much.

I don't even know what my life is like outside of that. Who am I? You know, I tell, like, who am I outside of the fight? You know, who am I?

And so I had to sit with myself and ask myself. And, you know, when I think about the word pleasure, there is no pleasure without feeling safe. I didn't always feel safe. So I appreciate you sharing that because I one can relate in terms of like putting something creatively out there and being extremely nervous to see obviously like are people going to like it?

On top of that, obviously, you infusing parts of you with your sexuality and race and growing up and your experience is like, that's like a really vulnerable moment to be infusing something into a work of art and then like fingers crossed, hoping people like it, you kind of have to slowly be really good with yourself to be able to know like, sure, I can like perfect my craft a little bit more, but down to the core, like if people don't like it, I'm still going to be okay with myself. Exactly. Exactly, it does. It takes a lot of unlearning.

Yeah, it takes a lot of fucking with yourself, you know, and like I have to say like, you have to be like, I fuck with me, you know, yeah, okay, somebody doesn't like a song that I made, but that doesn't make me a bad songwriter. That doesn't make me a bad artist. That doesn't mean that I should just throw away my whole career. You know, and you have to just understand that sometimes we're not always in the same space that we can take in, you know, take in the message or the energy that an artist is trying to put out.

And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just like, okay, this didn't resonate with you. Okay, but I don't give you that power over me. You're not more powerful.

Your thoughts about my art are not more powerful than my thoughts about my art. Yeah, it's so real what you're saying too, because even when I was listening to you say like, I was fighting for so much of my life, like when am I gonna get out of this stage? That's also the beauty of art is like, it will come to it when you're ready. Your music would have sounded so different in your fighting stages first.

Now when you're like, I fucking love myself, I'm more clear on who I am. I'm more secure in certain things that were like eating me alive, maybe when I was younger and going through it. And you can tell like this album, like it makes you smile, it makes you feel yourself. It makes you just like want to live.

And I don't know if that sounds corny, but like, it's back. No, it's really beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that. Every moment of your soundtrack felt very thoughtful.

And put together, and it is a story. So I just, I create a person. So I really respect you and it's great. Thank you.

I wanted to focus on feeling too. I think feeling is what music gives us. It makes us feel, it makes us want to dance, it makes us want to party, it makes us want to cry, makes us want to feel ourselves and feel sexy, have sex, all those things. It's such a powerful energy.

And the fact that it's a feeling that I had, that I felt like, man, this makes me feel good, knowing that that makes you feel, and we are just meeting each other, that's such, I think that's such a beautiful exchange. So thank you so much. Of course, it's interesting. You kind of mentioned this earlier and I want to talk about it.

I know you've talked about going to therapy and working on yourself. And I know you're at a great place in your life and the age of pleasure, but let's go back a little bit. What is the biggest part of yourself you had to heal in order to be who you are sitting here today? Oh, wow.

One of the things that I had to do was again, deal with my rejection and abandonment sort of trauma. Where did that start from? My dad and I, who were like this now, were super close, but my dad struggled with addiction growing up and so he was in and out of my life. And so there were just times where I didn't know if he was really going to come and pick me up.

You know, the trust wasn't there. I felt let down. There were moments that happened all the way up into high school and other things that happened. So I had to go back to those times that were painful, that those times that I just had to forgive my dad.

I was like, I have to forgive you. You were struggling with drug addiction. You were not the best version of yourself. And now that you are, we get to make up for that.

We get to make up for that time. And as I healed that and I talked to him about it, a lot changed for me. As I forgave him, I forgave my own self. For spending so many years, you know, in that dark space and connecting that to my art.

You know, if I thought that I had done something wrong, you know, why wasn't he showing up for me? And so when you go and you in the back of your head or thinking that you're doing something wrong, that your own dad isn't around. If in your art, you feel like people are not liking what it is that you're doing or they're judging you or whatever, it's so all intertwined. You know, the feeling of like them leaving you, like your dad left you, you never want to feel that.

And so I had to get to a place where I was, I understood what that was and I had to let go and I had to be okay with knowing that there's nothing wrong with me if folks don't want to come to my party. You know, even me hiding in the bathroom, they didn't want to come to my party, okay, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with me. It wasn't nothing wrong with me while my dad wasn't around. He was struggling, he was battling.

And people are battling so many things. People are into different things that perhaps what you're doing doesn't necessarily align with it or they just plain might not like it. And that's okay, but do you like you? I think it's so interesting when you start to connect to your childhood and how your parents raised you and what trauma did you go through, when you don't deal with it, there's just like this anger in you or there's this like resentment and there's just a part of you, even if you don't want to label it that, like there's just something in you that you feel like you haven't resolved.

And a lot of times we don't have the perspective of kids of like, oh, like this wasn't intentional that my dad was doing this to like neglect me and make me feel abandoned, but it happened. And so two things can be true, right? Like he wasn't trying to like inflict pain on you. He was going through something, but it affected you.

And until you go through all of that, it's gonna influence the way that you move in life. That you see life. But even you saying it's interesting, like it affected your art, I'm interested to know how to affect your personal relationships with this theme of abandonment within you. It affected them for sure.

Yeah, it was just like trust issues. You know, breakups were intense. Cause they just mirrored that, but now like there were moments where, you know, I was dating someone and, you know, we broke up and I just was like, I will never talk to this person again. The way they made me feel, I will never talk to them again.

And after I started to go to therapy and I have an emotional support coach that I talked to, after, which by the way, therapy, like we're benefiting from therapy. I just really wish that it was free for every person around the world. I really, really, really do wish that there was a fun, that everybody could access the word they could have therapy, they could have somebody to talk to and work through. I do believe that we will be in a much better shape as a community, as a nation, as a world.

So I just wanted to say that. Cause I feel like, damn, I wish everybody could go, could experience these things. So I was like, I will never talk to this person again. And after I went through, you know, understanding and getting to the root of like my rejection abandonment trauma, you know what I did?

I thanked the person who I was in a relationship with and it did not work out for us. I thanked them. I said, you know what? If my emotional support coach said that I was gonna do that.

It's like, you are going to thank this person because you know what this person did for you? They forced you to deal with something that you were not going to deal with. They pushed you to go back to the root of the problem. You were not gonna do it.

You were moving. You were too busy moving. You didn't have time. But that relationship, the ending of that specific relationship forced that.

And I literally called that person and I thanked them. I said, thank you so much. You have no idea. Like I was really walking around here hurt and you forced me to like, you know, and so they started sharing things with me.

They were just like, I just wasn't ready. I was confused myself. I did not trust. It was going so well for us.

I'm so used to chaos that I didn't, I felt like this was not gonna end how I wanted to end. I'm also dealing with rejection issues. So we just kind of healed through each other. And that and it helped me in my other relationships.

I was like, here are the things that I was doing because of my trauma. When I'm free from that trauma, I'm like a really, really, really beautiful partner to have. And it just helped me to understand how I want to show up for my future partners. It's not so interesting when you meet people in life that obviously again, like you needed to work on yourself to be able to have that hindsight and be like, wait, that was so helpful.

But like most of the time in life in romantic partnerships, I feel like specifically, like you can get so hurt by them, but that's not your family. So you're like, I can walk away, but you're always going to learn something so incredible. And if you can get past that hurt initially, we really should be thanking all of our exes. Cause it's like, even if you cheated on me, like I have partners in the past that I had so much resentment and anger and I look back and I'm like, there's so much I learned about myself and my resilience and my worth and like had that not happen.

Of course, there's moments in life where like, I wish no harm on anyone, but like certain themes that you can take, find the good part of it rather than feeling so negative and angry because that gets us nowhere. That's interesting to hear you talk about like how you connected with that person at first being like, I'll never fuck you again. And then you're like, wait a second, thank you. Thank you.

Like fucking thank you. And I will say though, I mean, I know it's like sometimes with exes cause I also had an ex that was just like, man, I wish I really had this new version of you. Like when we were dating, I wish that I was around, that was the person you showed me. And I was just like, yeah, I agree.

But listen, what do you want me to say? Like I wasn't ready. I was growing. I needed to grow and you know, I'm sorry, you know?

True. And you know, it's interesting that I've had, I remember an ex I had kind of similar to that, but you also wonder like, but if I was this new version of myself, we probably wouldn't have been together. Cause you were attracted to me then. We ended up with some reason.

That part. We were both toxic as hell. As hell. We both were toxic.

And so like you can wish. Yeah, it would, I would definitely would not. This new version would have not dated, you know, that person, I love you, I love you, but there's just no way that I could put myself back into that sort of like chaos. Yeah.

And it's like, again, it's like you're both growing. So for him to be even able to see your growth. Yeah. Phenomenal, love it.

Amazing. But we probably needed to go on our own ways to actually get whole and good. And do a lot of you than ourselves. And maybe that's just not the right fit, but at the time it was.

Yeah. And so we can appreciate each other's growth, but we're not gonna go together. Yeah. We grew together.

And that's a beautiful thing. I always want the best for people. Like even if we're not together as a human, that also help contextualize break ups. It's like, even though we're not together, I don't want anything negative to happen to you.

I don't want anything bad to happen to you. As a human, I want the best for you. And if that means that it's not with me at that time or at that season, then so be it. Yeah.

If someone's listening to this and is like, wow, I really relate to you. Maybe they had someone in their life that didn't show up for them and was constantly neglecting to be there and show up. What did actually working through that childhood trauma look like for you? Because I can see some people like, how do I begin to like repair this?

Like, where do I start? Ooh. I mean, like I said, I just wish everybody could afford therapy. But if you can, try to get you a good therapist that you can just talk freely to that can help you like, and don't lie to them, you know?

Don't lie. Be transparent. Tell the truth. Make sure that they're pushing you.

And you need to not be afraid to do the work. It's gonna be painful. There's been a lot of tears, a lot of crying, a lot of just like confusion, but just know that you're growing. Let you know better, right?

You're understanding you a lot more and sometimes that feels confusing to your body, to your cells because you're literally being like rerouted. Like the way that your mind is being rewired. So it's gonna feel uncomfortable. But just stay the course.

Cause I promise you that if you do the work, there is going to be, you're gonna be like, I never thought I would see the day. I literally never thought that I would be this person. It's like I planned, I sort of planned it out, but to live it out and to be living what I dreamt about doing and the freedom in which I move. Cause it's not that like you're not gonna deal with issues and problems and things like that.

But the way that I'm so solid with myself now, I didn't know, you know, I was free, but they're levels to it, they're levels to it. So just stay the course and you'll reach the next level. I love that advice cause even hearing you talk, it's like we all reach a point in life when we haven't dealt with our shit, where it just starts coming up more and more. Relationships are failing.

Friendships are having issues. There's things that work, like it just starts to creep up. And those are usually the moments where in a good way, like you cannot deny you need to address it. And I love that you said it's so uncomfortable, but you gotta do the work cause then you wanna be uncomfortable.

But you're going against something and you have been living this way your whole life. So you're going against the grain. You're going against yourself. Your future self is fighting your past version of yourself.

It's like looper in a sense, but different. Anyway, you mentioned now that you have a good relationship with your father. And I can imagine there are people really relating to you today. Also like how did you know it was time for, that you were gonna be able to forgive and have an actual relationship with your dad?

I wanted it. You gotta want it too. Sometimes you're just like, I don't really want a relationship just because you've birthed or helped bring me into this world. Like as a person you can be like, I don't really want this.

And that's totally fine. I think I wanted it cause my dad is cool. Like my dad also had a music career, but drugs not in the way of that. And so me and him can talk music.

He understands like all my favorite artists or his favorite artists. When I put out lipstick lover, all of the art that I'm doing, my dad supports it. Like he's like, I want you to know as your dad. I think what you're doing is brave, is sick as fuck.

I love you. I want you to know I got your back. Like as a black man in this, living in this country, I'm supporting you, my queer non-binary, you know, artistic daughter. Like I'm here for you.

And I knew he always had that sort of, that sort of where I gave both my parents are like shows. Like they could each have their own TV show. And people, they would not care about me. They'd be like, well, your mom and your dad, like, you know, they're not together because they're very much so alike in many ways.

You know, they're super like flamboyant and their personalities can take up a room, but good sweet people. So what my dad always knew that like, when it was time to take risks, that was gonna be the person that was gonna affirm me. And I wanted that and I needed that. And also for him, I wanted to give him another opportunity post like being sober to know me, you know, to know me.

I think that for both of us, we needed it. Like I needed to have the support of my dad. And I felt like for him to have been, because he'd also gone to prison. So he had been locked away for years.

And I was like, I want him to come out sober and to know what it's like to receive love from me. Was that not Gil? How old were you and your dad went to prison? I'm timeless.

So it doesn't matter. I was alive at some point. Yeah, I know. This was on and off, you know, middle school, elementary school, high school, like always.

You're so successful in so many different areas. Like you're an author, you're an actor, you're a singer. It's insane how talented you are. And I'm thinking, again, it's always like, we never know what someone goes through.

Like you rising to fame, having your father, you know, having these struggles, like, were you ever just, was he still struggling when you first came up and started giving up? Yeah, well, no, he was, that's when he sort of got clean. So that was great. That was good.

I needed that right at that time. Because I was gonna say, like damn, like, everyone probably seen you in the tabloids and everything, like, having all this success. And yet, you want to repair a relationship with your father because there's nothing, everyone can relate. When you do something so good at work or at school, you want to call your parents.

And you, because you know, there's no one that's gonna be more proud of you. And so I appreciate you sharing that a little bit because it's like, yes, you have all this success. And, but family, and again, when I say family, I always make sure they're clear. Like, I don't care if they're blood.

Like, you don't have to be with people that abuse, or whatever, whatever your answer, who your family is, to be able to repair relationships if you want it. It is kind of beautiful because you get to share your life with people that love you and support you. And there's no jealousy. It's just like, we fucking love you.

Like, your mom outside the talent shows me. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh, that's really cute.

You are very private about your dating life. Yeah. How have you decided to make that decision in this crazy Hollywood world that we live in? I just did.

I was like, hmm, just watching, observing. I was like, you know, the people that actually are more private, seem more happy to me. They just seem more happy, you know, because it's like, you don't have to worry about, you know, anybody seeing your partner over here and been like, oh, they're not, they assume that if you're not with them and they're seeing with somebody else that you broke up, and now you've got to go answer that question. You have to go do that.

And perhaps maybe later on in life, I'll open up a little more, but for now, I love having, I love, and it really is for the protection of them. Yeah. I don't want them to, you know, because I can handle sort of like paparazzi or whatever. It's annoying sometimes.

Sometimes it's fun. I love messing with them, whatever. But I never want anybody that I'm dating to ever feel pressure, because they didn't ask for it. You know, they didn't ask for it.

So I just like to keep peace and harmony and no expectation from the public to know our every move. I think that's really healthy. And I think in a weird way, I do always talk about on my show now. Like I feel like people now more than ever can kind of relate to a lack of privacy, even if you have 500 followers, like we have accessibility now to post as much as we want.

And I think there are people that feel societal pressure to like post my partner with me, because it's like, there's almost like social currency that comes with like being this couple and having whether in college or high school, like this is everywhere now, where people are feeling pressured to prove something on the internet. And when you can actually step back from it, I'm not saying don't post on the internet, but like try to find a balance within yourself of like, why are you actually doing this? Why are you doing certain things? Is it just to get the photo to prove something to people?

It's just, it's not as healthy, you know? Like live some type of privacy is really good for yourself. Cause then you can also do it yourself like, do I like this person or do I like how I'm doing this? Or do I even want to do this?

I kind of have to like, make sure I'm not just doing it for the gram. Yeah, no, seriously. I think because it's the norm to people to be like, well, you must post your kids and who you're dating. You know, it's sort of like, that's the norm these days.

Definitely I don't feel like anybody should feel pressure. And I think that if you are in a relationship where they're like, if you don't post me, we're done. I've had like, people were just talking about this and we're on vacay. And there was a question like, would you be upset if your partner did not post you on social media?

And there were a lot of mixed questions, I mean, answers, but I was just like, we have to talk about that first and foremost. And if we agree that we want to keep things private, then no, but also like, if my love is defined by a post, you don't post me enough on social media. Like, I really need to understand my own damn like, priorities in life, is that really necessary for me? So I just think it's like, for me, it's not, I do think people should have conversations around it prior so that there are no expectations and, you know, because it could hurt somebody's feeling too though, if they feel like you're trying to hide them.

But that's deeper, that's like, y'all need to really, y'all need to really work through things, yeah. No, that's true. Cause I'm thinking about like, I feel like there are some people that also now because social media has been like very, you know, prevalent for the past, I guess like 10 something years, people may have been in relationships where someone was extremely adamant about posting them and they almost found like, when we're good, he posts to me. When we're not, he doesn't post to me.

So when you go to your next relationship, I bet there are some people that have like, lingering feelings and I'm like, well, why aren't you posting me? And someone could literally like, cause I don't think we need to, I love it. We're sitting here together, because it's better than us taking a selfie. So also check in with yourself of like, are you comparing yourself to your friends or your past relationships?

Get on the same page as your current partner. Yes. They may not be being shady at all. They're actually like, no, I can love you and I don't think you need to.

Or I want to protect you from, you know, all of the scrutiny or the, you know, just, just things. Like that online world, it's its own matrix. And you know, it's, it's tough. It's wild.

What are you like in a relationship? Are you romantic? Are you dominant? Like what's the vibe over there?

Ooh, that was also, we played this game called, oh God, I'm going to get the name of it. Actually, it's a black guy who made the game, card game. So it's not a lot of us in that space. So I really, really have to get the name of it.

Oh my God. Anyway, one of the cards. I can link it in the description when you, if your team send it. You're so sweet.

I got it, I got it. Okay, but one of the questions was like, what would your ex say about you? And we were just like, everybody was like, ooh, wow, that's a good one. I feel like now I am, let me think.

I mean, because you know, it's like, and so the question, when the question made me be like, well, this is what I think about myself, but what if that isn't what they thought about me? Like, okay, of course I'm going to say glowing reviews about me, you know, or maybe like a couple of things that I need to work on, but you know, it could have been some other thing. So for me, if I was being honest in a relationship, I mean, I think I used to be a very like hard to know if I really loved them sort of person, like it was hard to get to my heart. Because I had just been hurt and I hadn't really again dealt with sort of that trauma of what it would feel like of somebody leaving me.

I never wanted anybody to leave me. And if they did, I didn't want them to ever feel like, I really loved you, you know, because like if I really told you that I really loved you and we still didn't work, then like, wow, what a stabbing heart, right? But now having gone to this new space, I'm a big communicator. I, you know, believe in evolution, even in your partnerships.

And even if you started out one way, I'm always open to us growing. And I want to make sure that as we grow individually and as, you know, together, I've also been in polyamorous relationships as well and I know what it's like to be with multiple partners. So it's very important that, you know, we're communicating in real time about our feelings and if things are coming up, like if one person feels like, okay, I'm having feelings of jealousy or I need some more time with both of you or, you know, how do we, you know, if we need to like work on some things, I like to know that. And I always welcome, you know, feedback.

I'm that type of person. Like I don't ever want to be in a relationship where I'm thinking we're good and we're not. Like you're wondering, like, just let me know. Because I could probably adjust.

We could adjust perhaps it was a misunderstanding or perhaps like, oh, you know, maybe you thought you knew me or you knew how, you don't know how much I love you. I need to be more expressive in those things. And so I think I'm a verse. I love it.

So I can be dominant, sub, like, you know, I'm not binary as well. So I can go with the flow about things. I love it. Meaning like I don't, I don't just consider myself like to be boxed in as like this type of partner.

Like sometimes you need me to be more like water. Okay. I need to be more like water. You need me to be more like a rock for us.

Okay. I'll be more like a rock for us. How did you know, was there like a conversation or did you just know the moment when you first had your first polyamorous relationship? Like how did you know that you were comfortable with that dynamic?

Well, I was already in a relationship and the person who was attracted to me was also attracted to my partner. And so they made it very clear and we just made it work. Okay. Would you, would you continue to have those type of relationships again?

Like are you still interested in that? Or has anything changed? Sure. I'm open to love, you know, I'm like, I think, you know, I love going to weddings and, you know, there are certain traditions that I love and congratulations that I know you're engaged.

So I'm right, so I honor love. And I think they'll love comes in different different variations. And that is what I love about polyamory, is it just shows us like, just in the same way, like I don't have just one best friend. I have multiple best friends.

And I love y'all, you know, we love each other and we can all hang out. I don't just love one parent. I don't just love one aunt. Like I love all of you.

And in relationships, you know, I think when intimate relationships, partnerships, I think that if we can talk about what we need and what works for all of us. And I'll tell you, like, it takes a lot of unlearning, because we're conditioned, especially in this society, that this is what a union looks like. This is what, you know, it's two people in a relationship, you know, it's like, so you're fighting against, or not fighting against, but you're constantly having to unlearn the traditional way of what love looks like. And so I love to, by being my authentic self and us being our authentic selves, challenge the notion.

Yeah, I love that because what is very frustrating and I love having conversations like this on my show, because you're right, we were all raised with something that was like, this is the norm. And it's like, I'm so happy finally. I mean, there's so much work to be done. Like, even with sexuality and fluidity, it's just like what, like, it's very frustrating.

I think for people that see it so clearly, like let everyone do what they want to do. And then people that are still so stuck in the way that they want things to have been done for thousands of years prior. When you speak about polyamory, like, I can imagine, there are people that are so judgmental of even that word. Like, how do you even do that?

And like, it's so small-minded. And it's also like half the people that are saying that are speaking from a place of insecurity. Because I've seen people do it and be like, isn't he cheating on his wife? And like, it's like, there's so much judgment.

When something really frustrates someone, I always believe like, there's something internally like it's getting you going because why do you care so much? But how did you, I'm assuming at some point, you have dealt with judgment into anyone listening that's also maybe like going against the norm, which fuck the norm, let's just be everything normal. How did you deal with that? Yeah, always, always.

People aren't intrigued. People think, you know, I think all sorts of things, but I think education is important. I mean, we have to internet. People can look things up.

And I mean, my close friends are super supportive. You know, certain family members have been like, hmm, but for the most part, my circle of people that I have around have been supportive. Even if they have questions and they wonder like, okay, all right, because also people are trying to figure out, well, hmm, is that what I need or what we need? Or because I've definitely been cheating on my significant other for a very long time, but what if after all, we just needed a third?

We needed somebody else, you know, that loved us and we love them to be a part of our union. You know, people are scared. I understand that too. Some people are scared to go against tradition and, you know, some people come from conservative environments.

I came from, you know, conservative Baptist background where I was taught to fear everything. You know, even getting into the music industry, I was taught to just fear, you know, don't be like this artist or don't be like that, or, you know, there's just been a lot of unlearning and I get that and I think, I think though for me, I have to know that this is my life here on Earth. I wasn't put here to follow every rule. I was put here to help rewrite them.

Yeah, I really appreciate you talking about that because it's just such a prevalent topic that's still, like it's, again, we have so much movement that we need to keep doing, but I think having conversations like this. I'm curious to know, like, how did you decide, obviously, being a public figure to speak openly about your sexuality? Ooh, I don't know, I decided to sort of like decide for me because my art is a direct reflection of who I am. You know, I have Metropolis, which is my first EP.

I have a lot of independent work I put out before that. And then I did Dark Android, my first full-length album, Sweet, then I did the Electric Lady, Dirty Computer, and all the way now to the age of pleasure. And all those projects that have come out, I discovered that, I mean, I knew when I was a child that I was attracted to not just boys, but to women and to energies, I knew that. And because of my sort of conservative Baptist upbringing, it wasn't welcome.

I suppressed my sexuality, I suppressed my sensuality, I suppressed so much of me because I didn't feel safe. And so once I got to a place where, okay, I know for sure, for sure, that, you know, I am attracted to these energies, I'm gonna honor that. And with each project, you can hear me and feel me getting more brave. You know, I created the Android, Cindy Mayweather, who was representative of, in my work, who's representative of the other, you know, the queer person, the black person, the non-binary person trans, all of us who are pushed to the margins of society.

And so I used that as a form of coping, a coping mechanism until I was brave enough to actually say it. And I think I was always dropping hints and I was getting more brave and less afraid. And then finally, because also I was in a relationship in what some would say, you know, it was a lot of things. Like, you know, understanding, you know, polyamory was something that I wanted to explore.

Well, if you're already in a relationship, you have to go have conversations with that person's family. But what does that mean for you guys? And so I could not talk publicly about certain things because they impacted my real everyday life. You know what I'm saying?

Like when I got off the stage, I would also have to go see these communities that I was a part of and like, if they heard about it through, you know, any other thing outside of like me saying it, then what does that mean? And I just wasn't ready to have those sorts of conversations. And so I guess to answer your question, like, you know, I just got brave over time. And once I also felt like I had community because the albums and the art and music, what it also does is it signals like, Hey, I'm out here, I'm out here.

And then you meet people who come to your shows and you meet other artists and people, other humans who like, are like, oh, I identify with them or I fuck with that. And then we become friends and you have a community. Now that supports you, that sees you, that even if your family you were born into doesn't support you or see you, you have support. And so once I felt supported and I felt safe enough, that's when I started to become even more brave.

And I started to be courageous in the way that I started to live my life. And I think right now what I am doing, I've done this privately, is that I'm honoring all of me. I'm not closing off, you know, my sensuality anymore. I'm not closing off my sexuality, my polyamory.

You listen to only have I-42, you know, that's honoring that sort of union. If you're listening to Hot From The Age Of Pleasure or Champagne Shift or even Float, you know, you know, I'm feeling much lighter now, I'm float. I had to let some things go to get to this place and fear of not being accepted was one of them. And once I got over that hump, everything started to change for me.

Community, when you were saying that, like I hope everyone listening, if you're sitting listening to this or watching this in your room and you haven't been able to fully embrace your sexuality, whether it's people around you, you're afraid how they're gonna accept you, like there are so many people out there that will love you and like are so having the same feelings as you. And so just don't limit yourself to just the people that you've been assigned as family to you. Absolutely, absolutely, it gets better. As you start walking, whenever you're ready, don't feel pressured too.

Cause I mean, there were moments where I felt the pressure to talk, like interviewers would, they would just speculate based on my appearance because I was wearing a suit. They're like, hmm, you're lesbian, like that's what I would get. You're lesbian. And you know, as I was trying to discover who I was and I didn't identify with being a lesbian, I, you know, and I had lesbian friends, I loved my lesbian family, but like people would say certain things and try to force me to out what I was.

Well, if you're not a lesbian, then what are you? And so I wasn't ready. So don't feel, also feel pressured to talk about your sexuality. It is a private, it can be as private or as public as you want it to be.

For me, it was seeping out into my art so much that like, I'm like, yeah, this is, this is me, this is who I am. And I wanted to also free a lot of people who were in their rooms, who could be in their rooms right now listening. Like, you have family, you have a church, even outside of the church that you went to, if they disown you, like, there is a big church around the world with people who will affirm you, people who are like you, your identity is not new. Like it's been happening, we're here, we're showing up for each other.

And I love you, I love you. When I was researching, I read somewhere you don't refer to opening up to others about your sexuality as coming out, but rather coming in. Can you explain that? I didn't actually come up with that terminology of coming in.

I just thought it resonated with me more. A guy by the name of John forgot his last thing, but I heard him say it and he's a queer black man. And I heard him and I was like, that's exactly what it is. It is bringing people, bringing people into our world.

I'm letting you in on who I am versus like, you guys are the norm. And I'm just like, hi, I'm out here. Like, no, I'm letting you in to my world, which is sacred, which should be respected and appreciated. Well, certainly not apologetic about it.

I love that you're so right. Cause it's like, I'm letting you in on who I am. I don't, you don't deserve me. I don't have to come out to you.

I don't owe you anything. Like when I feel comfortable, I'll let you in. Like come clean. Yeah.

Come out of the closet. Yeah. I'm sorry. I've been here.

You just must not have seen me. Or I'm not even you must not have seen me. You must think that you and your, or you know what? Let's not even talk about it.

Nope. I was gonna go down a whole stream. No, I could too. How about this?

Do you have a mantra you come back to when it comes to people who actively do not agree with the way that you live? Ooh. Yeah, I do. I have so much.

I wish I had my phone with me. When it comes down to power, you know, I think like, when you give your power up to folks, like people's opinions have more power over you than how you feel about you. That's I think where things take that turn. Where the depression sets in, where the constant need for approval comes in.

And I think I'm a powerful ass motherfucker, you know? Really? Just as you're powerful. We're all powerful, right?

We all hold gifts that we have. And I think that, you know, again, how I think about myself has to be more powerful than someone who is trying to take me down through their negativity, who is trying to oppress me through their fear. My power and my love for myself is greater than that. My drop.

Yeah, my drop. What is something when it comes to dating and love that you know now that you wish you knew when you were younger? Ooh. Sheesh.

Man, I would say, I wish I had discovered vibrators a long time ago. Like, honestly, it's so fun to experience that with your partner. It's phenomenal. It's so great.

It's like, what, going to the sex shop? Like, I remember when I first went, see, again, when you come from those sort of like conservative background, the sex shop, I was full sunglasses on. Like, do not have me in here. Oh, my God, what am I?

Oh, my God, please, nobody take photos of me. Like, I did not know. Right. I did not know the world of vibrators.

I did not know the clitoral stimulation that you and your, the fun y'all can have with one. You know, it doesn't necessarily have to be penetrations. It's life changing. Right?

How about you? I remember, I didn't have one of my friend bought me one for my birthday in college. And I remember like the first time I tried something with the back of my electric toothbrush. And I was like.

Hang on front. No. If you forget, just go buy your brand new one. It's lapsed.

It got me through. It's got me through. It is a lifesaver. And so I felt the same way, though, of my friend got me my first one.

And then I was like, oh, my God, like, I never have to have sex again. Like, this isn't me. Like, it just allowed me to recognize that, like, I hold the power of like my own orgasm. And like, I don't need someone else to make me feel amazing.

Like, I can do it myself because being taught, like, we grow up. And it's just like, the men will do this for you. And like, you and I'm like, why am I going to wait for a motherfucker? I mean, or I was like, this is amazing.

Exactly. Don't wait for a man or anyone to give you. You can do it yourself. So I remember I felt the same way in New York.

I remember the first sex shop I went to with my friend. I was not famous, but I just mean, like, I just can't make eye contact. And I think that just comes from like shame of like, we're not normalizing, like, exploring your sexuality and enjoying especially as women, like enjoying sex, loving sex, being connected with your body. And I think it's so important that we start to have those conversations at younger ages, obviously, in a safe way, but like, especially for young girls, you just start to like feel shame and like you're doing something wrong.

And that's why so many women, I truly believe, like, we have such a hard time in the beginning, like figuring out what works for us and knowing how to like get off because we were like, it was basically like, don't touch yourself, you're a whore, you're a slut. And it's like, what? Or you're a deviant or like touching yourself, gross, you know, like if it was not, you go get a boyfriend and y'all wait, but don't have sex actually until you're married. So go marry to have sex.

Like I have cousins who actually married women just to have sex because they were just like, God, won't, it's a lie, it's a lie. And I will always just like, you know, say like my heart goes out to those of us who have clitorises and just not just those of us who are even, you know, for those of us who have penises or whatever it is, the pleasure that we can give ourselves, like how that was stripped away from us. I just hope that we can reconnect again with our bodies and reclaim our bodies, that's the space that I'm in. Like I am reclaiming my sensuality, my sexuality, my pleasure, like unapologetically, like I'm not apologizing for talking about it, for taking time to myself to make up for a long time.

I mean, I think I could have avoided a lot of just even sexual interactions with people who I didn't really like, but I just was like, well, this is the only way that I can feel less shame about sex is if I do it with this person. But like, that leads to so much confusion sometimes if you don't really, really, really like this person and they don't really, really like you, and it's a whole thing. And so I think you actually avoid, you have less stress when you take matters into your own hands, literally. Absolutely, okay, everyone listening today, we are entering our era of the art of pleasure of taking into our own hands.

Yes, we are. I know we've been kind of like essentially talking about this whole episode because we're talking about pleasure and finding our own voices to find that pleasure. But what has been the most rewarding part of making this soundtrack for you? Yeah, I mean, just like, we're talking about it, it's a soundtrack to a lifestyle.

And I think so many people that I'm hearing, that's why I can't wait to go on tour. I'm on tour, our first show is in Seattle, the end of August, we're on tour, so get your tickets. We have some more, a little bit more available, but they're selling out right now. And I'll be on tour in North America through October 21st, the age of pleasure, tour.

And so to see how people are like making this their album, owning it, and like with their friends, I see them just certain songs, they're like, oh my God, you're speaking to my heart. Like, I need it to hear float. I need it to give myself permission to let things go and to go into a stage of like what Hot is talking about. Like, I look good, I look sexy, I look handsome.

Like, non-binary folks are feeling seeing trans folks are being seen. Like the community in which I intended for it to be, and even outside of that, I think that you don't necessarily have to be a part of my community to vibe with it. I think that what it just represents is like, even in the midst of chaos, you've got to find your pleasure. You have to make time for yourself.

And I actually brought you something. What? Here's? Oh my God.

Official age of pleasure, I cut mine. I was gonna say, it's so cute. No, it's so cute. You know I'm gonna do that.

It's like, it's so cute. I want it to bring you to know. Is it so sweet? A shirt?

You need another side. No, this is so good. I'll give you another one. No, can I cut it?

Like, you know, I'm just calling you, but I've been staring at it. Like, it's such a, it's yours. Thank you. I adore you.

It's so dope. I want it to bring you a hand. This is so good. Okay.

A hand written. Art of afternoon is that relevant to say. Art of afternoon. A copy of my book that I released in 2021 called A Memory to Librarian.

Thank you. A jewelry from a very computer. Yes. Yes.

This is, I'm bringing the gifts right? And girl, I know you just got back from vacation. I did. Like, you were giving us all, you're getting us in our fields.

We're already going to have sex with our song. Come on. We got a book. We got a shirt.

Okay, to anyone that is like, you got to tell us, what is, if you have to pick. What is your favourite song on the soundtrack. Oh, shoot. Wow.

I was going to go listen to this one. So, okay, it varies because all of them, I mean, I hate to say it, but it's, it's, it's, it's not a long album. I usually play out like, excuse me, like double albums and with this one, I wanted you to want to replay it over and over and over again. I didn't want to, excuse me, I didn't want it to be too long because this one was just on President Barack Obama's song of summer, only have eyes 42, 42.

So listen to that one. I mean, but I love every last song on this project. I'm having a hard time like figuring out what songs we're going to play on tour. I think I might have to just play all of them.