What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper. We call her. J.
Shady welcome to call her daddy. Oh, so great for being here. I'm so happy to have you here. I thought we become a quick podcast friend.
Everyone I went on Jay's show the first. It was really going podcast and you made me feel so comfortable. So I'm so happy to have you here now at my studio. You're amazing.
You're amazing. People love you as always as expected. But I think people love seeing that side of you. And I'm just a great for that.
You gave me that opportunity. So thank you so much. Well, thank you because now we're going to learn from the master today. We're going to talk about love.
The real reason you're here is you have a new book out. The eight rules of love. I read this and was like daddy gang. Every single person listening to you are going to learn something because I learned so much from your book.
What inspired you to write a book breaking down all things love related? So I think it just had so many friends, clients and people in my life for the last few years that had a passionate career, but they felt unfulfilled because they didn't have a lot of their life. Or they were hustling and they were making things happen. But then their partnership was falling apart.
The relationship was falling apart and that was affecting the self esteem. And I started to find out whether you were at the beginning of your career or at the peak of your career, if you weren't figuring out your relationship, it was causing massive issues with self worth, self esteem and self respect. And so I realized that no matter what you achieving your life, if we don't play close attention to this, we're going to feel extremely disconnected from the quality of our lives. And so I don't want people to live their lives feeling unhappy, dissatisfied.
And then let's talk about this. School of Indigenous how to fall in love and teach us how to find people. I didn't teach us how to keep love. Our parents managed to talk about what most people didn't see a great example if you did.
You're extremely fortunate. So we didn't have a very good example at home. And then when you look at your friends and family members, you see a lot of dysfunction. And so I wanted to study all of that.
I wanted to look in within the dyspanchan eye-by-my own life and then go, okay, how do we actually give people a guidebook on that and not tell them how to do it and what to do perfectly, but give them everything they need to think about along the way. Call her daddy is brought to you by Dove. Have you guys heard that Dove just dropped a Dove re-imagined version of the classic Don't you to launch their new alcohol-free whole body dealer in a true 90s baby throwback moment? The best part is that Dove's new whole body dealer in is alcohol and aluminum free combining 72 hour odor control with nursing skincare.
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The first rule you write in your book is let yourself be alone. We see it all the time. People can convince themselves to say like in a really bad relationship rather than ending it and just being good with being alone. How can people get over the hump of actually breaking up with someone they know is not good for them and be alone?
Yeah, I'm sorry. I've got a book about a lot of relationships and the first chapter about being alone and it's like what you're doing. But the research shows that when you get into a relationship because you're scared of being alone, raise your hand if you've ever got with someone because you're scared of being alone and single but the hands are out everyone. Everyone's around the room.
Everyone's around the room. We've all done that and here's what happens when you get into relationship because you're scared of being alone. The first thing that happens is you settle for less than you deserve. The second thing that happens is you become more dependent on them.
And the third thing that happens because the first two is you are so scared of breaking up up and you struggle to break up that person which is a core of your question. And the reason for that we have to know why that happens. When I get the question of how you break up with someone you know they're not right for you, we have to go backwards and look at how we ended up there. We ended up there because society makes you feel less than when you're lonely.
If you went to school and you had birthday party and no one showed up, you were the loner. If you sat alone at the lunch table at school, you were the widow. If you were in your 20s or 30s or maybe in 40s and you turn up at a wedding without a plus one, it's like, oh poor you. And so society's made being alone the victim.
And to somehow that's gone inside our minds and we've gone, oh wait a minute, if I leave this person that reflects on my self worth. And what I want people to understand is the difference between compatibility and self worth. You may be incompatible with someone, but that doesn't mean that that's a reflection of your self worth. And so we need to disconnect the idea that just because this person's not right for me doesn't mean I'm bad.
The way you just described that is so fascinating to actually if you dissect the concept of like you're right being alone has always been something that you feel shame for. And then I think as we get into our adult, how do we start to realize like shit, I feel so uncomfortable when I'm alone. But I think that's what I'm supposed to feel the most comfortable with. But how do I achieve that again?
That's like no one taught us that being alone is actually very cool. And it's like the sexiest thing about something that you can be good on your own, you're going to attract better energy because you are an independent fully born human being. That's not then attaching yourself to someone else just because you're trying to fill a way to read throughout the book. You use your own love story with your wife, Roddy, as a reference point for the reader.
Where were you at in your life when you met your wife? And how did you grapple with being alone prior to finding your person when I met my wife, I hadn't been on a date in probably around three or four years. And then what a sudden I'm dating this girl that I'm really into and I go back to all my own habits. I'm trying to impress her with everything.
By the way, I have no money. I'm $25,000 in debt. I don't have a job. And I'm trying to cross this thing because I'm really cool.
And I know what I'm doing. is I'm tutoring kids on the side like students making like 20 pounds an hour from teaching economics to a student at university or college, saving up to pay for updates. And then trying to pull off the most expensive, epic show off 18 year old dates that I thought were impressive. And so I took it to a candle like a tally, which is like this, Michelin Starling, David Beckham goes, I can't afford it to save my life.
I like to save up everything I possibly can to book a table that you can never get a reservation. I took it to get a seat wicked and theater like saving up. So I'm saving up that I lived in my 20 pound an hour student payments to pay for a date. And I'm realizing what am I doing?
And the best thing was my wife came to all these things and now I know I know I know I wouldn't give it to 10 years, but I don't know. I thought that's what women want. When you start dating and if you're not so selfish or with yourself and who you are and what you can offer in a relationship and confident, I think that's a huge thing, right? You can then start to try to appease the person sitting across.
So you're like, what do they want? I think hey, what do you want? I don't know what you actually want to give this person and what kind of experience would you want. I would say that I felt confident about who I was internally, but I was really unconfident about what I had externally because I didn't have a job and I didn't have money, I didn't have a car or I didn't have a home, I didn't have anything.
And because I thought that's what relationships were value based on, I was devaluing myself. And I think we all do that, right? We just find another way to find one of our own inadequacies and devalue ourselves. And that's like trying to devalue who we are and value what we think the other person will value.
And that paradox, like that challenge ends up making you move so far away from who you are. They're actually never going to find another way. And I think I feel the opposite now and it's really interesting where, and I'm sure you've gone through some form of this, but I found that as I became more externally successful, I wanted my wife to validate my external success. So every time I went in a water, I had a good idea, I look how cool this is.
So like when we did something big, I'd be like, lovely for this. Please appreciate me for this and luckily I have a wife who humbles me in every possible way and just doesn't care. And I started to realize that actually my wife loved me for who I am. And I should just see that as the greatest truth and accept that rather than constantly trying to get it to love the stuff that I have.
Yeah, that reminds me of something I really appreciated you talked about in your book. And I actually pulled a quote because I thought it was so powerful. Something I say all the time I think we're aligned on this is like the best way to get into a relationship I always think is to focus on yourself. Really focus on obviously how painful yourself is like what do you want?
Who are you? What do you mean in a relationship? That's when you're going to attract someone that's going to be a great partner for you. You wrote in your book, in solitude we practice giving ourselves what we need before we expect it from someone else.
People determine how to treat us in large part by observing how we treat ourselves. A relationship with someone else won't cure your relationship with yourself. Can you give us an example of like how do people negatively talk to themselves and how does that impact then how they're going to be treated? Yeah, so I think that a great example would be we think like I'm not small.
And so or I'm not intelligent or I don't have anything valuable to say and I go bunch of friends who the world would consider absolutely stunning and gorgeous and beautiful and everything else but it's super smart and intelligent and show that side themselves because they don't have to be there. And what ends up happening with that you never show and display that side of yourself. So in a conversation when a topic comes up you say quiet when you have something to say you remain silent. So you're constantly like suppressing your own voice.
And now you don't realize that you've created a persona for that person falling in love with and if that person falls in love with that persona now you can act in perform for the rest of your life. Exhausting or just like that person because they're like you but now you've started to think there's even more inadequacies. And so I think what ends up happening is I think we've just been able to believe that there are certain things that people are attracted to and there are certain things that people are not. And I think when you play that game you run the risk of not being attracted to yourself anymore.
And I think that that's the most dangerous thing. You're right. A lot of life is about viewing ourselves to the eyes of other people. And if you don't really know yourself you're probably your self worth is any predicated on how other people view you.
If you're seeing someone treating you a certain way though what we don't realize and what you're doing right in your book is like because you're probably giving that energy that you treat yourself that way you're not even noticing it. You don't speak up or you talk you really talk down on yourself to a group of people. And so you are devaluing yourself in their eyes and the only way that people are going to then all of a sudden start to treat you as an equal or what you're worth especially in romantic relationships is if you carry yourself in the way that you want to be treated and you actually can see yourself but you can't get there unless you actually do the work. I've done a few episodes talking about how our relationship with our parents and our siblings has so much influence on our behaviors and our life course.
I love that these two lines are literally in bold in your book. You write this is so fucking sorry I love this part. There is a gap in how our parents raised us. We look to others to fill it.
And if there is a gift in how our parents raised us we look to others to give us the same which I immediately I mean there's so many gaps in there so many obviously gifts that my parents gave me. But like just a personal note I was fortunate my parents are still very in love. They've been together for 34 years totally and everybody always looked at it when I was young like you are so lucky and I feel that way but then I started dating and I was like I had the craziest standards because I was like no one is going to be the way that my dad treats my mom like I it's a perfect relationship. So everyone has the way that they look at it like I was fucked up from this way or this way or this way.
Your parents are fucked up. You're fucking out right. Figuring out the gifts our parents gave us and the gaps that they left impact how we operate in dating. Yeah that's a great question.
That's exactly how I wanted to hit that. I didn't want people to be like oh yeah well that's great. You're lucky. You should be like no no you don't understand.
It's really hard for me to find someone to make me feel that way. The first thing is I want everyone to know what they got. So on the way you and I've exercised all of the books I hope you do this deeply but in essence a way to build a gap or figure out your gap is obvious. It's like what do you feel you wish you got from your parents that you didn't get.
Maybe it was praise. Maybe it was encouragement. Maybe it was belief. Maybe it was presence and energy.
I wish that they showed up to your gone to a hustle or whatever it made then. One of those gaps that they've been left out. I want you to go fill those gaps yourself. I want you to go do each and every one of those for yourself.
If your parents are in trouble and you're compliment yourself. If your parents are in trouble for what you love show up for what you love. If your parents are in trouble at your games or whatever it was make sure you're turning up. Have you given up on a passion but your parents are in trouble for you?
And so I want you to fill that gap themselves because what that does is that now when you go meet another human you will allow them to just be themselves and give you love in the way that they like to show you rather than try to figure out how to be your dad or your mom. What happens is that we become a project and we're looking for someone to fix us. And what we do is we become broken hoping that we're going to find a fixer and exhaust the fixer trying to fix us because we're broken from something that they never did. If you don't fill those gaps for yourself back what you're saying earlier you're going to enter a relationship and want that person to fill the gap for you and you'll never even know if that's the right person for you because if you're a gas filled you probably would have a very different capability rather than you're finding someone that's like filling your need for compliments.
Fill your need for this. Well imagine if that was filled. Do you even be without person or relationship? You'd be like if they didn't have to constantly fill you after an area.
Exactly and then the gift spot is looking at the same thing that's what you just said. What were the way your parents loved you or showed you love that you thought were beautiful that you thought were amazing and then ask yourself is that something I want or is that something I'm having to have it was beautiful for them. Maybe I don't want that. Maybe that's not exactly how I want it to be.
And when you figure out the gifts that you received now what you're going to do is when you meet someone you're going to realize if they give those gifts that's amazing but don't be compliant to the other gifts that they want to give you. And I think so often we're like well they're not giving you these three things that I really wanted and you're missing out on all these amazing stuff that they're giving over here because you don't think that's love. You think love looks like ADC and if they're giving you XYZ you're like no no no that's not love. So often we limit how people love us because we put limits on what love looks like to us.
And so I'll give it a practical example to me my wife so we have a completely different languages we have completely different parenting situations for my wife love was shown by presence and time and energy her parents took a day off on her birthday they would take her out on long walks they'd spend a lot of quality family come together. My friends and I looked at time they were working really hard to make sure they had enough money and had enough food and working hard to take care of my sister so I don't get any gifts they would say about the money the one thing I wanted. So when we met I just wanted someone to buy me epic gifts and my wife's like cooking an amazing meal and making all this time and energy and I'm going well why am I going to get that one thing and that's how the gifts and the gaps play through because your love language is just based on the gift and the gaps you had. What I'm saying is don't limit love to your love language your partner maybe would express love in a far more beautiful greater way and you're missing out on it.
Speaking of material items you talk a lot about the tradition around diamond rings and the culture around engagements just in general. You also mentioned Disney Princess movies and how we were talking young age like your principal come and your life will be complete. What is the fallout from this fairy tale fantasy that all of us grew up watching? Yeah I have to tell you this story I think you may have ever thought of it.
I went around here because it's amazing so when I was just having a proposal to my wife I went to my brother-in-law and I was like do I think I'm going to propose and he was the only person in my lifetime and I didn't want to engage in married so I was like I'm going to go to and I was like I want to propose how much should I spend on a ring? I have no idea right? I never thought about getting an engagement for anyone before, never been into a store, no idea how much it cost and he was like I spent two to three months salary. He just threw that number out there.
I was like okay cool and then I went on another friend who was about to propose and he was like yeah yeah two to three months salary. So I started here two to three months from a lot of my male friends. I didn't make all the time. Okay two to three months salary.
Okay cool and so I was like fine I went and spent two to three months salary I proposed, I read on marriages and yes all the rest of it and then years later when I was researching this because I was thinking about this and I was like how did everyone know that number? Where did that number come from? And at the end of it in this silhouette there's a diamond ring that's sparkling and shining that's going on to the finger and it literally says what better way to spend two to three months salary in 1977. A full marketing point, a full marketing point.
What advice can you give around being happy with what you have as opposed to focusing on what you don't have? Happiness actually sits at the intersection of gratitude and growth and so I was encouraging listening to genuinely grateful for what you have but then think about who you want to become and who you want to grow into not the house of the car or the external thing because we both know this and I will never be the best we say money doesn't buy happiness or money's not important. I just don't like that rhetoric. I think it's unhealthy because it makes people feel like well, any people feel bad if they do want that but it also feels like it always comes from people who are already financially stable who say stuff like that.
I actually say that you need growth in your life constantly but the goal is to bring out growth. I appreciate that because I think even just in the world of social media, everything we talked about like you viewing things that make you feel less than or you're not adequate enough and then it's like and then on top of it just where you're at in your life. I think a lot of times I think the younger generation is having a hard time finding their own path of growth because there's a lot of people trying to be like I would be like that person or I would be like that person because people are more accessible in sharing more of their life and although it can be someone that you look up to and like I appreciate how they do that. I think there's been a little too much of people trying to quite literally emulate exactly what people are doing on the internet and I think growth wise it's your endanger of not allowing yourself to pay your own path and figure out what's good for you.
We all learn from people that came before us but I do think there's some type of like copy cap and tally that's like oh wait but what do you want? You're watching that person and take talk like do you like that? No it looks cool. Well then maybe carve your own path.
I thought when you wrote your book was interesting and I kind of want you to talk about this because you talk about there's five people that we fall for right? The rebel, the chase, the project, the fuck boy and the opulent one. Yeah. When I read that I was like this was my ex-boyfriend.
This is my first one. I'm like can you explain what the opulent one is? Yes yeah absolutely. I think this one in there because I think this is the most misguided one.
This is the one that you don't quite understand. The opulent one is the idea that they have one thing that you really like about them. So you may look at the opulent one is they're so attracted. The other one is like oh they're so smart like a lot of the way they think.
Oh they're so educated. They went to a great school right? So you find one thing, yeah rich right? Like you're sure you're as a nice car like you're saying whatever it may be.
You find one thing and you start giving someone other qualities because they have that quality. So give an example. You say oh he's rich which must mean he's organized. You'll be an organized partner.
Oh they're good looking, they're trustworthy. I can trust them. Anything we find attractive about someone we start to give them soft qualities. We're like oh they're not too kind.
They went to a good school, they must be nice. They must come from a good family. We just are giving people all this ammunition because we start paying the picture and the opulence completely is an illusion because now you're not letting someone earn the right to be those things. You're not letting them become those things or demonstrate those things.
You're just assuming and I think that that's really unnerving because it's so intoxicating. Like when you're a truck we all know what that feels like. Yeah I did not feel like one thing. Yeah exactly when you're attracted to someone it is so intoxicating that you will push yourself out of these reasoning techniques and the reason I put these all there was just like please reflect this as well you're doing and I'm not saying you shouldn't go off to someone you're attracted to.
I'm just saying check that the other things you think they have they actually have. Don't just give it to them because we assume that they must have these abilities. I did this little video on Instagram recently which I think made the point and I little match and I was like this is what chemistry feels like and it's amazing and then I kind of with it. I guess what connection compatibility looks like.
It's going to burn a lot longer. This match is going to run out and so the idea being that like I'm not saying you should have no chemistry. I want everyone to feel chemistry but chemistry is just this one specific spark and now you're going to turn that spark into a burning flaming candle but if you don't make that transition that spark in another self is not going to create love. It's the idea of how the chemical what's happening chemically I think we have to look at that.
So when you find something attractive to this two things happening you're experiencing attraction but you're also experiencing stress. So there's attraction of like oh they're hot. The stress is do you think I'm hot? The attraction is oh they're really smart.
I really like how they think. The stress is do they like how I think and so there's this but when you first meet someone you're experiencing attraction and stress and that's what feels like chemistry. Now the science shows that what happens as you become more comfortable with each other is the stress decreases because you now actually they make you feel these stress because you're comfortable with them but we see that comfort as anti chemistry. We see that comfort that that's in our provides as a spark is gone but it isn't that it's literally a feeling of our bodies.
I think everyone always says like the spark is gone and you can come out of the flamers and candles like spark is gone your stress is now down. You're now not so freaking nervous to walk into a room wondering like is it going to look good. It's like well now you've been with them for a while you know they find you attractive. You're comfortable and so eventually you've been to a relationship.
There is nothing better than that comfortability because they are the person that you trust and that trust is built where the stress comes down and the trust raises I think and so some people get a little stressed out about that different dynamic but then you look internally like why are you so addicted to the chaos and I was for a very long time. I look back at my relationships and I was so addicted to drama and like all the guys I was dating it had to be something because I was ready to settle down and then when I was I started to look for those qualities of trust and not feeling so on I did not feeling insecure and then all of a sudden I was like oh that's definitely more of the vibe and the person I want to be around. It takes time. When looking back at past relationships what types of things should we look to examine to make future relationships easier?
When you're starting it's better to look at pace. I think one of the things on a relationship I would look back on your relationships and look at how fast did they get serious, intimate or close and I would analyse the pace of the relationship and you find that relationships that have a steady slower build helping make better decisions and so I'm not saying that if you have a slower rise and we're likely to stay together I'm just saying that it doesn't move into fast. If you don't fall in love too fast you have the ability to make healthier better decisions sooner before you're too attached in your 2D bin. So I would get pace of relationship and go let me look back in my last few relationships myself.
I fall in love too fast. Maybe I fall in love too slow. Was I too skeptical or was I too optimistic? I would look at was I letting the person show me who they were or was I painting the picture of who I thought they were and I think that in and of itself is everything like we're constantly not actually letting people earn their stripes and this applies to trust like I talk about trust a lot and you just brought it up and that's what's on my mind and I created these four levels of trust.
We often think of trust as binary like we think of like I trust you or I don't trust you and that's what people are people. You're not trust me. I would go home with you. You can call me home.
So we think of trust as like white. Trust as it's actually levels and so the first level of trust is zero trust. When you meet someone I don't care. Look in there.
I don't care. They are. They're going to earn that trust from you and I know that sounds really dark but it's not it's given the opportunity to show you where they trust with you. So they may say I'm going to take you up at some point.
They may say I'm going to text you on Sunday. They text you on Sunday. These are like signs of transactional trust. That's an example.
It's a transactional trust. They say something and they live up to it. The third level of trust is reciprocal trust. Now you're going to deeper.
It's like you do nice things for each other. You're not checking in your mind to check every mind you detail but you know it's going to be reciprocated and the highest level is unconditional trust which is like God level trust which is going to be your own parents. Probably most people never have it. We want that so bad that someone is one nice thing for us.
So I get the best. They're amazing. Like I'm like I love them. They're like they're not my ex at all.
It's like I got one thing right. That's okay. I don't think we're going to test the person. I'm just saying just don't trust them.
They want a couple of things. And so I think pacing is why we look at from a lost relationship. I look at how much you let them show you who they were versus you made them who you want them to be. It's so fucking good.
I think you're so right. Everyone can fall in the spectrum like either you're someone that trust so fast and it's like we didn't even know them. They're like you don't know anything about that. And you just trusted them to hold your heart and go forward.
And it's like hold on. And when you're going to happen, you're going to try. And like did you ask him? And I think the other side can be people have a really hard time trusting.
And even as much as someone's showing you, there's clearly something from your past that's with holding you from being able to move forward because like I've seen relationships. I've done it in the past. But I have literally done nothing. Why do you not trust me?
And because I did not have a different relationship where someone broke that trust. And so it's like everyone's going to have a different level. But I think the pace is such an interesting concept because I know from my personal current relationship we were in the pandemic it moved way too fast in the very beginning. And I made a very, very hard conscious decision that I worked on therapy to slow it down.
So I could be able to go back and pretend we're not in the pandemic. We're not in the pandemic so much time which is great. But we're moving too fast. We can't move it together yet.
We've only been dating for like six, six months. Like hold on. And so I think you can always alter the pace. You're never too far gone.
There's always times to really have to be able to partner that's willing to also adjust pace wise. And not be like what the fuck are you talking about. We live together. We need to talk about that.
Now I realized we've never had a conversation about XYZ. So pacing can also be on your terms and you can dictate that we have to have a partner that's willing also to work with you on. I love the point you've made that I can change any time. This isn't like oh I messed up in the beginning.
I moved too fast. I did something with me in my wife actually. I did the beginning. We moved with it.
We spent every day together because I didn't have a job. We spent every day together for like six months. And then all of a sudden I got a job. And now I couldn't see every day and shifted into the pace chains again.
And so I fully agree with you at the pace chains at any time. And the reason why I talk about pace is just you make better decisions when you have more time and you have more clarity and you don't feel pressure. All the research shows that when you are clear of mind, you can deal with seven things at once. But when you're stressed and number goes down to three and a cute stress gets lower and lower and lower.
And so when you start making really big decisions based on really small pieces of information, you're going to make some unhealthy choices. Another reason I read that blew my mind was that this really hit me especially with I'm someone who really likes many new friends. And I like building new connections with people like Ela Silla value. And this science really reminds me of it.
It takes 40 hours of spending time with someone to consider them a casual friend. 40 hours. I was like wow I have it before you have a lot of people. Of course I do think things like interviewing someone being interviewed by someone.
There are some things like deep intimate conversations, vulnerable conversations, accelerate this journey. 100 hours counts as a good friend. And 200 hours counts as a great friend. So the question when you're dating after you have to ask yourself is do I want to spend 200 hours with this person?
And how do I spend 200 hours with this person? It's a great metric to let you check. It gives you something tangible when you're feeling like running ahead of like 200 hours. Like don't you dare be telling somebody I love him and you have him spend like 80 hours together.
Like let's like the fourth date I get it can feel like it's very exciting but you don't really know that person yet. So maybe like hold your cards a little closer to the chest. The next rule that you talk about that I think is very very important is define love before you think it, feel it or say it. So Jay how do you define love?
I define love romantically as when you like someone's personality. When you respect their values. And when you're committed to helping them achieve their goals. And the reason why I define love that way is liking personality is obvious.
And that goes back to do I want to spend 200 hours with this person. You want to spend 2000 hours with this person and 20,000 hours with this person. Respecting someone's values. I use that word very carefully.
Most people feel that relationships are where you have the same values. And that you're on this magical search to find someone who believes in the same stuff you believe in. That is so hard and so impossible. And I don't even want to put fairy dust on it.
I don't think that's going to happen because people are so different. Well why it's so different. Yes we can have shared values. But we have Trump values and priority values.
And so I'll give an example in my way. My wife values family about everything. Her immediate family that she grew up with that is like a number one priority. My number one value is my purpose.
It's my work. It's what I do for others. It's my passion. That's what I love about everything else.
And when we met, we both talk about this. And we realized that if she had a family event, she would choose that or anything. And if I had a purpose based opportunity, I would choose that or everything. And I don't want to change that.
She doesn't want to change that either. But we respect it. So when she says to me, and the reason I respect it, I just talked about your relationship. My wife is amazing because of her return to raise her.
And my wife's incredible because of the relationship you have to the parents. Why would I want to take that away from her? Why would I say, no, you're going to come support me at my thing? No, you're a good guy.
You're a family to come to me at this thing because my thing is so important because I'm doing it. So I see there's a respect I have because I know that her family is what makes her so a lot of go. And she knows that my drive and my ambition and my persistence is what makes me attractive to her. And so why would you want to give that up?
I feel like, of course, there's going to be some values that you hold very similarly to the person because naturally if you are in some paddock, how you want to live your life, there's going to be things that are overlapping. But I agree that there's going to be an emphasis for each individual on a different value and where it lies on the scale of importance to you. And I think it's really interesting because if you are with the right person, I think it's really good to have different values. Obviously that don't completely contradict each other that you're like you can't stand each other.
But having different values, I think allows you to grow as a human being and in a dynamic of a relationship pushes each of you to learn to compromise and compassion and to learn to respect the other person because you respect your value. So you're going to respect what they like. And so I really think it's a really great way you just dissect it out because I think sometimes people worry if we don't have exact same values, how are we going to make it? Well, do you like what they value to agree with that?
Exactly. Then you're good. It's not your number one. It's your number three.
It's okay. What you're trying to do is get someone to value what you value. And that's not possible. They can respect what you value.
But then I'm going to shift their value to value what you value. Because I want to get into the part of the book where you talk about the three-date rule. And I think this is very applicable to transition in this way because we're talking about finding that person and the values and feeling like you can really connect with that person on multiple levels that allows you to like that's my person. For daddy and listening, that's like I'm the dating phase.
Like Jay, I'm single. I'm trying to get that back up a little bit. You have this three-date rule. And your theory is.
You have this three-date rule. And your theory is that by three dates in, you should have had enough time to determine if you and the other person will be a good match. So these are not the first three dates. The three dates that I recommend you sprinkle across 10 dates, 20 dates, 100 dates.
I don't mind where you put them in. I'm not expecting to make the first three dates in interview. And I don't want you to do that. And I actually think that dating that date that's not like an interview and like a firing.
I really feel like that. That's how it feels. Because all you did was put your best before and then all of a sudden you feel fine or rejected. But you're like, oh no, I was interviewing for this role.
I'm dressed and prepared. And so I don't expect you to make these your first three dates. I expect you to use them in your dating journey. You're saying there are three dates within the scope of you that you know someone, that you would like them to sprinkle in these questions.
So your first date questions you think should be asked that are geared around finding out someone's tastes or preferences. What's something you love to do? Do you have a favorite place? Is there a book or movie you've read or seen more than once?
What is occupying your thoughts most at the moment? What's something you wish you knew more about? What's the best meal you've ever had? What I'm saying in this is you're getting to know someone's personality.
The question you're asking is do I find something interesting? Do I find someone intriguing? Do I like them? Do I enjoy who I am around them?
On a very personality, chemistry level. Something's going to ask these questions. Sometimes you're actually going to just observe those. You're not like having these in your nose.
Yeah. You're not asking a question. You're like, jade told me the data. I'm talking about those questions.
But this is something you can be looking for. And do I like the tone we would say carry themselves, right? And the tone is so important, even compared to the words. To really listen out and go, oh, is this person arrogant?
Is this person like coming across my ideas? Am I ideas not interesting? Do they ask the question? By the way, I think that a lot of these questions, men may struggle to answer because they feel quite personal.
They feel quite personal. And they can feel quite intimidating sometimes because you can feel like, oh, God, these questions might be fun. They're not in interrogation. They're not in intervention.
They're not in interview. It's being inquisitive. And I like to make that difference between you're never asking a question from an interrogation standpoint or an intervention standpoint. Because everyone, no one likes that.
You're asking it from a point of genuine interest. And by the way, have your answers ready? You can say, well, let me go for it. Let me tell you mine.
And now it's a conversation and now it's open and vulnerable. And it's not this false thing. I want to know what you have to say. And I'm judging you.
It's all coming from a place which I think is something open. You usually get to know them. And I think that's very fair. So second date questions.
At some point while you're dating this person, you're going to feel like you're ready to get underneath a little bit more. If you want to lottery, what would you spend money on? I think that's so telling about someone. Are they just going to totally kind of feel like, oh, I'm retiring.
I'm just like, never doing anything. I'm totally fine. Is that someone you'd want to be with? Exactly.
I think sometimes we have a hierarchy of like, oh, this kind of That's not people should just be happy. Well, I think you said it. I think because you kind of agree like for me, I wouldn't be happy if I didn't have a purpose. I think a lot of my purpose comes from my creative name similar.
So that question to me is like, I would keep working. If I went a lot. I don't. But there's also then I know a friend of mine.
I was like, pitch. I'm getting five dogs moving to a ranch and living my guy. And I'd be like, and I totally respect that. But again, then maybe the person sitting across me would be better for me or my friend based off of that answer you would find out.
You got to ask these questions. And then the third date, this is where you get really a lot deeper. At some point you're going to feel like they've opened up to me in some capacity. And what types of questions are you thinking to be asked on this third date?
Where you're really trying to get under. Yeah, these are the ones where you're trying to do something called like self responsibility where you're really trying to get to a point where you're building a sense of trust. And you're building a sense of openness where you're comfortable having uncomfortable conversations. And I think that that is an art and skill that you have to test in a relationship.
If you think you're getting serious, if someone asks me, how do I know that a relationship getting serious? It's when you can have uncomfortable conversations in a comfortable way. That's the reason that your relationship is actually serious. Not that you move in.
Not that you get nice gifts. Not that you can spend lots of time together. Your own vacations together. Can we have a conversation that usually creates conflict and not get out of each other and not make it about each other's weaknesses?
There's so many things that people like this tangible thing will allow me to be closer. Or moving up someone. You can move in with someone and realize you barely know that sense. But can you have a conversation when you live together?
Can you really go deep with someone like where they're trusting you with information that they clearly keep close to their chest? But they're like, you know what? I trust you again. Trust, stress is going down.
Trust is going up. And I love what you said about the trust element. The way we check whether we trust someone is like we trust each other. Like we literally ask that question that makes no sense.
It's like we trust each other. You trust me right trust you. Trust is me being able to tell you stuff that may be uncomfortable for me. One of my favorite questions that and you can read more from the book.
But one of my favorite questions that's not in the book is a question that I often ask my wife. And I'll take it until this day. And so every couple of months I'll say to it, it's not like it's in my calendar. It's not like it's in a spreadsheet.
I don't recall the answer. This is a technical technique. It's a journey thing. I'll say to it, is this relationship going in the direction you wanted to go in?
And if it's not, what are we willing to do about it? And if it is, what are we doing right that we should keep doing? It's just such a healthy question. And it's also not because I think things are going wrong.
I'm not asking that because I'm scared or I'm worried. I'm asking it because it's the same as doing this podcast. It's just doing anything. There's a thing that says you can't improve what you don't measure.
You can't grow something that you don't measure. Whether it's business, whether it's a podcast, whether it's life. And I just think life is something that lives so unintentionally and unconsciously. That 10 years ago by someone who comes on the doors and goes, I don't think it's working out anymore.
And you're surprised because that person kept it inside them every three months. I was going to say, I think that's a testament to how much you trust your partner to be able to go to your wife and know that you're ready for any answer. But you also kind of know there may be something little she wants to do to us. And I also think there's a lot of people and I would really encourage daddy gang.
I know it's so uncomfortable sometimes. But having those card conversations allows long-japping relationship and it to grow. Because if you're not having that conversation, you're having so many in your head. I hate for this.
I hate for this. I hate for this. And then you're like, what are we doing here? So that's really cool that you do that with your wife and if any I'm going to steal that from you.
Because if there's a really mature way of basically saying, I'm getting you the opportunity to say anything to me. And I'm willing to hear it because I care so much about our relationship that might go as awful right now. And like I care more about our partnership than whatever you're going to say individually that I could potentially also work on. And I also know she's willing to hear it from you.
If you're like, because I've been thinking about this. I mean, I know this is hard. Like I want to empathize. I'm not saying that it's easy.
I'm not saying that you should do this tomorrow. I'm just trying to say people from waiting 10 years of their life with someone that doesn't love them. And I don't have to love it. That's where this is coming from.
This is coming from a place of I'm really smart. I know what to do in relationship. It's coming from a place of just I know how people live in my relationships. And I know how much pain it causes when you feel blindsided.
And when you feel like you're just in surprised and someone just like, the other you have big noise. Like you have no idea what's coming your way. I just don't want you to have to go through that. Like, you know, I just want to save you from the big.
I can say that I want to survive to save you from the bigger pain. To save you from the bigger pain. I agree with you. I think there's sometimes people especially maybe in those early days.
They just really get a little excited. They get a little ahead of themselves. What's your advice for managing expectations in a new relationship? So I have an interesting take on this.
I don't believe someone people say like, how do you make expectations? How do you set expectations? I believe the word expectation is completely insignificant and useless. And I'll tell you why.
An expectation is a hope, a wish, or a want that something might happen. Just hopefully randomly, potentially. I don't live my life in expectations. I'm going to live my life in intentions and actions.
An attention. So if I want a open, exciting, fun-filled relationship, I'm going to bring that energy to the relationship and see where that person matches. If they're on a lower frequency or low vibration, it will show. You won't have to ask them because you can tell immediately.
If you bring your best, it's kind of like with an interview, you know when a guest brings their best energy. And now, you're probably prepared anyway because you're going to bring your best energy to now. You're going to bring something amazing. But if you're waiting to see what energy the guest brings and then basing your energy off it, it kind of starts creating the constraints that you don't want to create.
You don't want to create a lot of things. And you don't want to create a lot of things. You don't want to create a lot of things. And you don't want to create a lot of things.
And I think I have an relationship when I'm not to make a scale. What is your advice for people that are in a relationship where both of the partners handle stress differently? That's a great question. So I mean, one of the things I realized about stress recently is that oftentimes when we break a habit, for example, you want to be strict about what you eat.
But chances are you break that habit when you're stressed. You want to be a nice kind person, but chances are you compromise with that because you're stressed. I'm snappy over my wife when I'm stressed. I say things I don't want to say my wife when I'm stressed.
I would say them for them if I'm not stressed. So you're not seeing how stressed literally makes you feel don't want to be. And sometimes we're trying to manage our diet or try to manage how we talk. So it's a manual stress is actually the core of what allows us to be a nice, like human, a healthy, a human, a better person.
When you handle stress differently, I think the core in a relationship is knowing how the other person handles stress. And I think for so long in relationships we don't know or we don't like. So another thing that goes back to respecting, we have to respect, unless it's abusive, manipulative, physically verbally. Like there's not a lot of leadership to be patient with anything of that sort.
But beneath that, if anything in your life, if you don't understand and accept the way your partner deals with stress is different to yours, that creates issues. So in the book, I break down three or five styles. And the reason why I came up with the five styles is because me and my wife are always arguing and fight and have discussions. And we never swear we'll raise our voices, but we were getting to really intense discussions debates around stuff that didn't even matter.
Sometimes it's something that's not that bad. And I would walk away always thinking like she didn't care as much as me. I would always feel like she didn't love me as much as I loved her because she had a different way of dealing with stress. So her way of dealing with stress or she wanted to block herself in a room.
She wanted to be quiet. She didn't want to talk to me. She just wanted space and time and she would figure it out. And my way of dealing with stress is we're going to do that right now.
We're going to do everything. I've got all the points laid out, bullet points are ready. And that shows I care. And her way of showing she cares is give me some time.
If I get to reflect and digest and introspect, I care. But I didn't think that I think you don't care and I care because we always think what we do shows we care. And so my fight style which I work down is called venting and her fight style is called hiding. And the third fight style in the book is called exploding.
And so a ventor is me. I want to talk about it. I want to talk about it right now. A hider is I don't want to talk about it.
I need space. And an accelerator is my emotions matter the most. And I just need to talk about how I feel emotionally. And so none of these are good or bad.
None of these are better or worse. None of these are things that judge you're going to fall. But when you know that's how you're finding your way of stress, you can now create a healthier boundary. And I want to talk about it right now.
We're going to talk about that. And let's find the space. You get enough space. But I don't have to wait for two days because I want to go right now.
And now I'm dealing with stress. You're rather than saying I don't like the way you deal with stress. You should be stressed. You don't deserve to be stressed.
I love that. I think everyone in a relationship can immediately if you're thinking about your relationship, you can kind of pinpoint how you deal with stress in the beginning of my relationship with my boyfriend. It was the same dynamic. I would be like, I need a minute.
I'm going to go. And I'm waiting for me to talk about this. And the same exact response where I think I care about human relationships. You don't care as much.
And I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about it. I think eventually we got to a point where we respected that boundary.
I know you're needed. I know my need. And let's find compromise. And it changed the dynamic because what it also allowed us to do is be safe in the relationship.
I'm like, okay, we know this. We know we both care. We're just handling it differently. And when you know that, even when I was up in the bedroom, just like ruminating on something, I still knew like I know he's there and he wants to talk.
And we're both going to figure this out. But you have to first acknowledge the difference in how you handle it before you can actually then actually handle it. And that's why I say respect because it's like judging someone for putting their note before that cereal. And it's like you put your cereal before your milk.
And you would never be like, I mean, I'm something that really passionate about this stuff. But generally, I would think that you would, but that is exactly how we do it. It's that example. Zero first, obviously.
Okay. Yeah. No judgment. But that's what I mean.
We get so attached to like how we have learned to process emotions. And we think if you don't process emotions like I do, you don't care. You don't love me. We're not in this together.
And that's what we just create assumptions out of nothing. Yeah. So pushing the other person away. And I'm like, no, just realize that person feels a bit out.
You do it out. I have one more final question. Okay. What is the most common mistake people make and love?
Is only through romantic love. And I think people devalue the love. A mother has for their kids, friends have for each other. People have their brothers and sisters.
They love kids having their parents. Like there are so many opportunities in life to give and receive love. And the biggest mistake we made is we think that this romantic relationship is the only place I get to give and receive love. Which means I know single moms who love their kids with all their heart and their kids love them back.
But they don't feel like that's enough because society is said, well, if you don't have so many you're like, do you know whether you love. And so we kind of have a hierarchy of love. Where it's like romantic love at the top. And when I look at the greatest acts of love in the world, often they're not romantic.
Often they're family. Often they're friendship. And they're people for society like sacrifice. So I just want people to remember that as much as romantic love is important.
Don't make the mistake of devalue all the other relationships in your life. So they show that so many people believe in so much. Which is the definition that there is one person out there for me. That is perfect for me.
And until I find them everyone else is not that person. And I think that's a mistake we make in relationships. Because I think a healthy relationship is where two people say we want to make this work. Not a relationship where you're searching for this perfect person fully formed, ready made, waiting to come out of a box.
And I think that's how we can train like a perfect body doll in the candle. And that sits inside a box that's shiny, spotly, brand new. They are in the perfect outfit that we want them to wear. And we can buy clothes to put on them and make a movie.
And it's like that person doesn't exist. But what does exist is this unique, interesting, flawed, fascinating individual that wants to make it work with you. And you want to make it work with them. And that's what makes you more special.
Because you chose each other. You want to mentor each other. If you just mentor each other, there's no choice. That means there's just meant to be.
If you chose each other, that's what makes you special. And that's what makes them special. And that's what makes what you have special. Because every day you're working against all odds to be together.
It's such a good point. Like we said, the word growth and the effort that you're putting in is also why you're in love with that person. The issues you've gone through. You had to overcome.
That's why I'm in love with my partner. That's why you're with your wife. It's like looking at what we've gone through and how we've gotten to this point. I don't want something that's easy.
I want something that's worth the work and the effort. Jay Shadi, everyone go read your book. It is truly like there are exercises. This is not a book that you're just casually reading.