What was going through my head at that time? I do, I don't know. I was drinking. Just trying to take a pain away.
It's tough, man. Fantastic! Come on! With all that money, obviously, it's all big, and if I'm in product control, it'll be what people have a voice.
Jesse, he asked if he could have given him a couple of days off. When he said about you look, I'm not true. He's been a voice up in him, and no one needs to lose. Do you have a suspicion why you won't be?
You do, don't you? I can see it in your face. So this is the whole thing that happens. Is there a day that you look back on and you go, that was the hardest day?
Just for your shit! Go on, yes! You know, I'm going to abuse and I'm already down enough and I've got to perform. I was still trying to be Jesse like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've had no jokes on that, but of course it's going to happen to me. He's not done most all this season. I'm already going through things we don't know about. I felt like I don't know much about this.
In 2019, your mother was admitted hospital. She couldn't really cope anymore. Did you ever figure out what the root cause of your mother's depression was? I think I should have me to be honest.
Give me your context. What is the technique right back to when you were in those early years as you signed and joined Manchester, I think, at seven years old? What was life like? If I'd been in your home, if I'd been in your surroundings, in your environment, what was life like?
Life was good. Obviously the moment I split up an early age, especially when I was born, which can make things a lot difficult. But I still had to desire the hunger. So going to training, we're going to talk to training, you know, week and week out.
You know, our trials are evident, city, Liverpool. So I'm going to be driving up and down a more way. Constantly, you know, to support me and take me to training and games. And then I also made a decision to sign up at nine years old.
You know, we had a great team. You know, like the Pogba, Ravel, and the team. So we had a great team. Outside of that, obviously the moment was very supportive.
That was very supportive. You know, football, mud. You know, so I think that support system, especially at an early age is important. Did everybody in your circle around you have high hopes for your career, when you were that age, about 10, 12, 13?
Did they think you were going to be a professional football player? I think we're going to do it. You're going to do it. Yeah.
I mean, it was on their stuff pretty much every day. Practicing skills, learning new things. And he had the belief that I would be a footballer. You know, if it wasn't from then, you know, I wouldn't be in a situation.
I mean, because he took time out of his day to take me in after to, you know, practice, and we'd probably come down, we'd probably come down. And we'd play one touch. Two to football, you know, pretty much on a regular basis. And that's my happy place.
That's where I'm most happy on a football pitch. And like I said, my grinder was, you know, very important. You know, put me into Liverpool, into City, into United on trials because, you know, people recognised, you know, the talent, but he was there to push me. I was watching the documentary and I saw a granddad who looked.
It's rare to see. I mean, one might expect a dad or a mother to be than pushy and direct and critical. But to see a granddad being that savage with you at times was quite surprising. Can you give me a flip for anything that hasn't seen it?
Can you give me a flavour of how tough he was at times? Well, he got a band of cool times. Like, when I say we're 12 years old, we're playing stoke away. And he's going on the pitch after the game.
I said, you're not fit to wear a shirt. You're not fit to wear a shirt. You're not fit to wear a shirt. No, you're fit to wear a shirt.
I'm like, what are you looking at me? I'm like, I'm like, I've had enough. He had me on weights up. 10 years old.
Like, listening weights. Went into my United Center. When the coach just told me we didn't at the time. He said, like, you know, I'm going to get my scrunching into it.
Because obviously it was a power lifter for Great Britain. So, you know, he went me on the weights at an early age to try and build a bit of muscle. Because, you know, I was always small. He kind of drove that from, you know, being a power lifter.
You know, for Great Britain, kind of passed it down to me. Mum was a gymnast. So he was kind of tough on her as well. Mum took it the wrong way.
Because obviously she'd rather be a gymnast, but we're going to be so hard on her. But, you know, eventually she quit on that. But it wasn't me. You know, some games had, you know, not played the best.
And, you know, you're getting the car on the way home. You know, I'd say, like, look, my toe was on today. Like, try and make excuses because he's so, like, hard on me. But he was trying to push.
Like, he come from a good place, you know what I'm saying. So the reason why your mother quit gymnastics was because he was so hard on her. Yeah, it was so tough on her. And obviously she didn't have really the motivation to carry on.
Probably she went strong enough to carry on that. But, you know, for me, I always knew it was a footballer. So, you know, having my granddad, you know, my dad, mum, mum around me at the time, you know, trying to push me. And it was difficult even at the early stage because, you know, I was living our mum's couple of days and granddad's a couple of days.
And he's going down the road. He's actually five minutes. But, you know, like I said, my mum couldn't really cope with me at the time. You know, so I was back and forth from a nine-year-old.
And then, like I say, driving up and down the runway, Liverpool, straight back to Manchester. I was trying to live a pool for one day, have a game for you, night of the next day. So, you know, he put the adage in, you know, to get me where I was to be today. You said that you mother couldn't really cope with you at the time.
What do you mean by that? Stiffression. It should be in bed all day. But most days, you know, go in, ask for money for the ice cream.
Like, still be in bed. So, me, I was happy, go looking. Like, I'm bubbly, like, I was going to play out with play football and my friends. And you don't understand, you know, the situation, you know, your mother's in that time.
I was so young, so I didn't really understand what was going on. Until, obviously, you got brought to light, you know, maybe, probably say, I'm saying I'm about 16-17. You can kind of understand, like, what she's going through. So, your mother was suffering from depression, even when you were very, very young.
But at that time, you just didn't realise what it was. Did she know what it was? I think she knew, yeah. But she would never, at that time, really have a support system to support her.
She had really people around her that, you know, she would go to, you'd actually go to my piano and, you know, go to the doctor's and, you know, she would start all that out. But at that time, obviously, I think she knew what it was, but she's not really caught with it. She's not really had to deal with certain things. And, you know, for me, when I was a kid, so I would play out of fun, play football.
But for her, she would always be in bed all day. She would drop me off at school. Well, she would drop me off at school at 8 o'clock in the morning and then sleep until 3 o'clock until 3 o'clock until she was middle. That's how bad it was.
Like, she was really going through it. So, she'd sleep all night, wake up to drop you to school and then go back to bed? Mm-hmm, yeah. If you sleep in a daytime, take me off from school, probably go back to bed again, just lay in bed.
Like, curtain shot, dark room, everything. And then, obviously, you know, back me, whatever, before I go to bed, and then she'll sleep all night. Over the last 10 years or so, people have become more aware of what, like, depression and mental health is. And this is kind of why I ask if your mother knew what it was, because, like, 10 years ago, if I'm being completely honest, there was a real stigma around mental health.
It was kind of seen as someone just kind of being a bit crazy. And over the last 10 years, thankfully, we got into a point where we have a better understanding that we have physical and mental health. And this is why I say, like, did your mother know what it was? Did she just think she was just sad or she didn't have motivation?
Or did she know she was depressed? Yeah, I think it was the whole innovation part. No, she couldn't get out of bed. She couldn't get out of bed.
She couldn't get out of bed. She couldn't get out of bed. I was dying for it to be there. And I think she came for the quarterfinals.
And that just made me so happy, because in that situation, you know, not getting out of bed, not having a motivation, but she found out motivation to come and see her son play at World Cup. That was, like, I told her, like, I was really part of her. Like, it's brave what you did. Because, you know, every day in bed, depressed, no motivation.
And just to find out a little bit of motivation, just to come and see, you know, son at World Cup. And don't forget, she's got, you know, got my little sister in the world as well. So, you know, she's got to deal with them as well, which is always tough. But, like I say, to find out more motivation to come and see me at World Cup was important for me, especially.
Because I wanted to avoid it anyway, regardless. And I didn't know she was coming until I was in the line up, seeing a national anthem, I see, you know. You've seen her recently, really? Yeah.
And it just gave me goosebumps, shall we? That was so emotional after that. And I wanted to perform at the highest level in the game, just for a, I think, there's a video on my Instagram. I've been holding up for, like, two, three minutes.
I've seen her. And it's just some things that can make you happier, you know, as a person, but just to be there and get open, get changed, and get dressed and have that motivated to see her son at World Cup. That's what made me happy. This is a bit of a difficult question, because it's not always obvious.
But did you, did you ever figure out where, or what the root cause of your mother's depression was? Um, not really, no, I think, I think it's going to shed me, to be honest. I think it was just difficult for her to handle having a child. Like, I say, I mean, when I went, you know, took over most of the time, but, you know, she was still there.
She was still on the move, but just hard for her to deal with it. And, you know, we had certain instances where, you know, we'd be in bench. And she'd be, like, trying to stretch my legs and that. I'm like, what's going on?
What's happening there? I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know she had depression at the time. I was such an engaged.
But for her, it was normal. Like, normal for her. And she's like, you know, stretch my legs. Like, you got training tomorrow.
And I'm like, what's going on? I didn't realize what was going on. So she had them, like, phases where, you know, she'd do, you know, some extraordinary, you know, stuff. Stretching your legs.
I'm confused. Yeah. Like, before we went to sleep. Just like, it was strange for me, because I knew I trained next day.
But for her, I was probably not, like, natural normal. It's still, it's still not resonating with me today. I'm probably not resonating with her today with what was going for a head at the time. Like, especially when I was born.
Like, could she handle that situation of having a kid? So you were saying, basically, before you would go to sleep, she was stretching your legs in a way that didn't make sense. Like, as in... Yeah, I was like, I was trying to go sleep.
Like, why? Well, I have another question. Like, I have another question. But she was too, like, extraordinary stuff.
And this lasted, this has lasted up until today, since as young as you can remember, till, till today. Yeah. And I think she should still always have depression. But she can cope with it now.
She can handle it, because, like I said, we've got the right sports system around. But still, it's, like I said, we've got a lot of room in the system. She looks after him. You know what?
She's come on, mum's come on, leaps and bounds to be honest. Especially from, like, even a documentary. She was nervous to do that. Like, she was crying in the car.
Like, the director. I spoke to her. I said, you're going to be involved in it. She was crying.
Like, you know, she's caught with it. But, you know, she's found a coverage, found a motivation, you know, to do it. And that's still a big thing, even though she's going through what she's going through. But, like I said, we can handle, you know, situations now.
Emotions, you said about bottling up your emotions. And generally, you know, I think men in particular have a real problem with kind of expressing their emotions for various reasons. Because, you know, we match your masculine and whatever else. But did you learn at young age or how to express your emotions?
Did you see, did you have models in your life where people were emotionally expressive? No. Only with, only with mum. I mean, I would always say, I love you, like, how are you okay?
But, like, that side, like, not much. Like, really hug more of a, you know, fistpump, but, you know, sometimes you want to see that. That love inside, especially from, you know, a fabric. And, you know, me becoming a fire resolve.
That's all I want to do with hope. You know, tell all of our, you know, express emotion to it. So I'm in a boat from, like, my mum's side, Grand Nod, none, mainly. And I've said, I think it does come into a realization where, you know, we've seen a documentary and, you know, as far as, what's the point in, you know, it's a short life, what's the point in.
And I argue in all the time. Because my mum and dad have never seen I tie. So, I can understand from my mum's perspective where, you know, she doesn't want to see him. But, I'm just going to a realization where it's like, let's get together, let's have a coffee, let's sit down, you know, document your really, you know, walking up and realize that's too short to, you know, because if you come in games and, you know, be asking, like, she's in the box, like, she's in the box, I'm like, my mum.
I'll sit in the stands and, and I know it shouldn't be like that, but, you know, that's how it is. But, you know, togetherness again, I can never see a woman doing it. I never see a woman giving him time of days, you know. Has your mum been able to find a new partner since?
She picks, yeah, she picks, um, not the best people to be honest. She picks a lot of nastas, but she kind of fries off that for some reason, like, the bad boys. And, you know, the situation that we're in, you know, you can't be going out with these guys and doing what you're doing with these guys because, you know, it went back to me. It had a lot of drama with most of them to be honest.
And the last guy hung himself. Mm-hmm. Which was, it was deep. But, you know what, nastas, like, like, one minute.
He'd be given it a world, and the next, like, who you with? Like, he texting, blah, blah. And, I'm like mum, these guys are not good for you. Like, they're not good for you.
But, somehow she thrives off them situations and gets a buzz off it and becomes happy. So, other situation where it's like, do you want one to be happy? Mm-hmm. Being with you guys, or, you know, bring your back down to Earth.
So, it's a difficult situation, but, like I said, yeah, the guy hung himself in it in the end. Mm-hmm. And then, after that, mum realised, you know, she can't be dating these people. It's difficult, I completely relate to, I completely understand.
Not that I've had that experience, but I can understand what you're saying with this conflict of, I want her to be with someone, but if it's a bad option, I'd rather her just be alone. And then, you know, I was thinking, as you were saying that, about many of my friends who have been going through difficult situations with them that ends up happening, because there might be a gap somewhere, or something missing, or something not quite stable with you, you end up attracting someone like a mirror who is also a little bit unstable, who isn't in the best place, and you're kind of toxic together in a way. And often, I think, with some of my friends, it's like, you just need to work on yourself first before you try and find someone who, you know, because a lot of the time, you end up trying to look for someone that will fix us. Yeah.
Which is never a good thing. I think that's what she did. She wanted someone to... Because, you know, she's got friends about it, she doesn't go out with her friends and, you know, be social.
So, I feel like having, you know, someone, you know, she could go to his house, she could do things with him, she could be happier. Then on the other side, it's like, they're not good for you at all. They kind of bring you down in a way. Manipulated in.
Manipulated in. The way of you. Should you believe it? Right.
Should you believe, like, I don't know, we'd go somewhere, like, me and Mum, Daisy and maybe Trappson or something like that. Like, are you, like, what are you doing here with? You know, you're not, you know, you're not, you're not, you're not. And it's like, I don't know, my mum's, like, dealing with this and I'm like, how can you deal that?
I think, how can you deal with this? And it's blocking. But she just, like, she lost the attention. She lost it.
Narcissists target people like that. That they can control in such a way. Be coercive and manipulate and take advantage of their self esteem and stuff. That's what narcissists do.
Because a person, an individual like that, narcissist like that would never be successful in coercion and manipulation of someone who would go, what the fuck are you texting me when I'm with my phone? The fuck do you think you are? They wouldn't survive there. So, they find that they find their way to people who they can.
Easy targets. Easy targets. Yeah, exactly. Easy targets.
Yeah, yeah. I'm blocking. I'm blocking. It's tough, man.
It's difficult. It's hard. It's difficult. It's difficult.
It's difficult. It's difficult. It's difficult. It's difficult.
It's difficult. It's difficult. Difficult. Difficult.
Difficult thing. Off you go into Manchester United. When did you get in your first real break in Manchester? Probably when Josie coming.
Really? Yeah. Especially on the Van Gogh. You know, gave me the confidence to play.
Well, still it was difficult because, you know, I was at a stage where I played the first game on the Van Gogh, did my knee six months out. The January game went on long to Dabi. And then the season after that was when I was at kind of a club break. So I left it till October.
Time. And if I weren't playing then, then I knew I needed to leave. And then he played me at the CS game. The CS game must go away.
Champs league. About sign. Okay. Freezing.
Cold. Minus. Five. Whatever it was.
It was like, don't wear gloves. Like what? Don't wear gloves. That's okay.
Don't wear gloves. Played well. And after that, stayed in the same. So it's kind of a, that's kind of a make or break time for me.
Why does that comment don't wear gloves? It's significant to you. Because, you know, especially at night we've brought up, got wear black boots. No gloves.
No long bottoms in training. Just like the basic things we brought up with that. So, when you went to the first game, of course, in a warm up, you know, in the Legos. But for the game, you know, back to basics, how we grew up.
Don't wear gloves in the game. It's about values, right? It's about values. You know, it's more always the way you've been brought up.
You know, you've got to put that into an early age. A lot of that comes from Cyrillic's Ferguson, right? I'm super, you know, I've sat here with a bunch of Cyrillic's flags and players, Rio, Gary Patrice. How would you describe the culture at Manchester United during that Cyrillic's Ferguson period?
What was the culture like? It was good. Yeah. I always wanna.
Rio. Sozy. You know, I always wanna. Even on tour.
You know, it's good to go on tour with him. And, you know, I think, you know, Rio being real. I always was there for advice. I always had to speak to.
You know, on a regular basis. That's what I'm supposed to be the same. Were they honest and critical as well though? Are they tough?
Some of those senior lads? Erm, yeah. Because the winners, you know, they've been there and did one trophy before. And, you know, it was unfortunate that I wasn't.
You know, any of the teams that, you know, won the Prem are a chance to leave. But, you know, even on tour, you know, you start winning games and, you know, going on tour with them, especially with, you know, Sir Eichs was, you know, amazing feeling. Removing on a bench. I mean, I called up for, it's been mentioned as Newcastle.
You know, not knowing if I'm gonna pay on that, but still is to be there and see how, you know, they are in a changing room and, you know, see that winning mentality. And, I think, you know, you know, it's, you know, it's been instilling you from a young age, you know, winning is important. Don't know how you win. Just win.
And I think you've been so successful in all the years. You know, winning trophies. Just by having that winning mentality. So, Alex, Alex, and leaves.
Now, it's funny, because I'm a Manchester fan. I'm a big fan and I've had season tickets over the years. And, um, go to mostly games at home still today. And from what I've heard, it went from being like a, like a family to being run by Ed Woodward and feeling less like a family.
Like, one of the comments one of the waitresses meant said to me was, you know, when Sir Alex focused and Dave and Gil were here, they would come in here and like chat to us. You know, all of our names, every single one of our names. And then when Sir Alex focused and left, one of them said to me, they don't, they don't speak to us anymore. It's different.
So, Alex was, like, a month and a month. Like, when we're training, we're first. You bring us about 16, 7, 8, 13. Like, it gives you that confidence.
Know your names. Know all, like, from probably under 10s to the first team. Not everyone's name. You take this time out to understand you as a person, understand your family.
And, like I say, you know, things change. You know, but with him, you know, it was good that, you know, he could understand the family side, get to know your family a bit more. You know, understand you as a person. You know, see progression.
Like I say, he said 23, 34, you've been the first team. You know, to hear that, you know, you can kind of get a beer, but, you know, for me, it was nothing you're guaranteed anyway. So, I'm just going to work my ass off 10 times, you know, more, you know, to be in that first team. Rio said to me that when his granddad was ill, so Alex folks not only knew, but he knew what Rio's granddad's favorite whiskey was.
Flowers were, and he sent it to the hospital bed before anybody else, he couldn't have. So, Rio said to me, whenever I've asked the senior players why, Saf was so good, they would all just, before you even get the words out, they'd say, man, management. That's what you said. I mean, I think even this day and age now, I feel like it's important.
Even with Josie, Josie's a face-timey, randomly. A couple of times I'll be driving to be face-timey. I'm like, where are you, where are you, kid? I'm just driving on with some salvages.
Where's Marcus? I don't know if he's at home. Okay, enjoy. There's a lot of things out, a lot of cars here on there.
Even, you know, Steve Cooper not going for it. Really me. Just have conversations. I want to understand you a little bit more.
I feel like it's so important. Why? Because it shows that you care. It shows.
And when they care, you care back. Yeah. Right. It's how care works.
Yeah. I want to understand you a little bit more than, you know, as a person. I'm not just going to mind you. As a person, like, how you operate.
Not in football. I want to know you're outside of football as well. Similar lads. I want to know you're outside of football.
I want to know you're outside of football. I want to know you're from this. And I think, well, not from a singland. We've got our soft gate.
My management top. Got to the 2018 World Cup. Got to the rooms. See a picture of me and mum.
See a picture of me and Marcus. Right. It's like a home. So.
Wait, you got to your room at camp? Yeah. In a hotel. Right.
I thought it was a home. He really has got the best out of England. In my lifetime. In the 30 years that I've lived.
I've never seen an England side that looks so happy and cohesive. Honestly, ego-free. And then it's shown in the tournaments we're playing. We have hope.
I was out in Catan. I was in the stadium for the England France game. And even though we lost it, I walked away happy. Because we're playing great.
And we're challenging. What's he done in your view to that England side to create that atmosphere in the culture? I don't think he understands, you know, what's his players. I think when he first came in, he was the first person to give him a debut of England.
I played him under 21s, you know, under some of his values and the way he did things. And then, you know, coming into the senior team, you know, giving him a debut. What are his values? Your view.
I mean, he cares about the players a lot. And like I say, he wants to understand, you know, the player. You know, so for me, you know, being with him on a 21 level and obviously being with a senior team, you know, there's trust already there anyway. But, you know, it takes a lot to trust a person.
And, you know, for someone new coming to the team, you know, he still understands the person. And, like I say, he wants to trust back. And, you know, he can speak about anything. Not the football, he can speak about anything.
And, you know, we'll understand him. Oh, how's your mum? How's your dad? There's a lot of things go a long way.
And I think, you know, the management side of it is very important, especially tournaments anyway. But, you know, the group has a collective, you know, understand his values and the way he does things. You know, so people new coming to the company, you know, it's easy selling, show away. Because it'll pull you straight away and like, you know, you know, talk, just talk.
And that's it. I think it's so important. You know, a lot of managers are known for, you know, Alex Ferguson's one of the trademarks of his style is the hairdryer. I know that's kind of like overcast by the media and stuff, because you hear what a caring man he was.
But, when you think about Southgate's style compared to these other managers, you've had like Van Gala Marino in Holland, noise, et cetera. What's his style of Southgate's? It's different. What?
It's still got the hairdryer in it all. Really? Yeah. It surprises me.
Yeah, no, it surprises a lot of people. But, you need that all. Because, you know, what a manager is, you know, nice and actually, you know, get away with a lot of things here and there. It's on it.
I'll tell you if you're in the wrong way or not. I don't know what way you are. Here you are. I'll tell you if you're in the wrong way or not.
But, you know, on the other hand, he still wants to create that with a vibe, you know, with a team. You know, it'll shut when, you know, it's needed. But, most of the time, it's just, you know, simple. You can speak to him.
You can speak to the group, you know, simple words. You know, enjoy the game. You know, we've been there before. Go out, go out on the game.
You know, have fun. Do the tactics all in a week. But, you know, someone like that, you know, he's a good guy as well. I think, you know, it goes on the way.
Especially, you know, with England team. Why did Manchester United not reach the levels on the pitch during that era? Because when I look at the players that we had, I mean, fucking hell, we signed some unbelievable players. People often create signs of glazes for lots of reasons.
But, when you think about the money spent on players on the pitch, we spent the money. Yeah. It's like almost a billion. I think it's almost a billion we spent in players in that period.
Yeah, we couldn't, we couldn't seem to win. We couldn't seem to get that cohesion right through. That's sort of Van Gogh, Marina era. And even the David Moyse era.
What's your assessment on why that is? Like, why wasn't it? That's what you think. Of course you won.
You know, with Van Gogh, when you have a cup. When you know, you'll believe, how about a cup? These world-class players are coming tonight. And I'll be honest, they're looking average.
So, they would come from a club where they were banging. And me and my friends, we celebrate our Manchester United chat. Like, here we go, lads. Every year.
And then, it's like they become half the player. It's strange because a lot of players have come in and failed. Like I say, you know, like some training. Top.
Like this. It's like calling. Training, calling. Then it comes to games, think, click, for some reason.
Not at all. Is it pressure? You know, when I was playing, especially with Roman, you know, Alexis, we started to enjoy football. Because it's going to be harder when the premise is, you know, been so dominant for many years.
But even to when you're oblique, you know, car about cup. Community shield. Like winning trophies. But I think when Josie left and trophy stopped.
That's difficult. Nothing in your mind. It's kind of like you have to, like, kind of peruse of over and over again. It's kind of like, you know, fake promises really.
That's what, the heart of it. Yeah. Like, you know, you're doing more like, you know, you're playing this game. Don't I'm not playing?
During the time and the social. Yeah. Because I played at first. And then I was like, no offense.
When all first came in, you know, unbelievable. You were all out of control. What's I'm saying? Yeah.
I said to me for the season, you know, if I don't play X amount again before December then we let me go on on in January so yeah. So, didn't play. And January, I'm coming west, I'm coming in. And still people with, you know, debating.
Is he fitting off? Is he ready to go into a team like that and start straight away? That nearly didn't happen. It was off and on and off and on.
Honestly. I was literally, one more brother. Watching guys. What's news?
David Moyes on the phone. I'm like, yeah, I'm coming. I'm there. Like, you got me down there.
Edward rings. No, you're not going out. It's off. It's on.
It's on. It's on. It's on. It's on.
It's on. It's on. It's on. It's on.
It's on. It's on. It's on. It's on.
It's on. It's on. It's on. It's on.
It's on. I'm just going to play it. I'm just going to play it. I'm just going to play it.
I'm all going to play it and not to mean integral gour rubs. How did that feel when you found out that you weren't doing after having won? Probably arguably your best ever year in football before at West Ham when you were, you know, widely considered to be the most informed player in the league. How did it feel?
It's hard-rodden because, you know, growing up as what I do, revs up my country. I'm with England. And to not play the first half of the season, then to go to West Ham and the phone I was in Quick, easy to get into. You probably say why I'm not picked.
Would that have helped? Probably, yeah. Do you think? To get a, to get a vision out of it, yeah?
I wouldn't have got you in a team but it would help you. Yeah, like what could I have done to get into the team? Should I go to 10, 11, 12, 12? Do you have a suspicion why you weren't picked?
You do think I can see it in your face? No, because I can see that smirk. You do. I don't know because I'm just thinking of a form.
How, how can I not be picked? You think it could be something else? Because your form, you can't argue with that. Can I argue with that?
Is that off the pitch? Off the pitch. Off the pitch I was sweet. I was in a good mental space.
So that would have been then? It's the same thing as yours. And maybe one day we'll probably get another reason. But to this day, not sure why.
In 2019, as shown in the documentary, your mother was admitted to hospital. What was the cause of that happening? What was the lead up of events that sent her to hospital? Just a depression.
It was just so bad that she couldn't really cope anymore. And I think she needed to go away and get help. But then leaving me with my little sister was probably 11 at a time. You know, my little brother was probably like 15 at a time.
For me, I was looking for my own things as well. So I went really the big role that they wanted at a time. Because they always get like the fun, the laughy jesse, the bubbly jesse. Well, that time I was going for my own stuff anyway.
So I was just autopilot. You're under hospital. You've got two younger siblings that you're now primary carer of. And how are things going on the pitch?
You're saying that you just weren't present on the pitch. Like, mentally. Like, I'd be on a pitch what? Steaming in a pitch.
Really? No, I don't want to play. I don't want to quit football. I never quit football.
But I would have needed a break. If not, I wouldn't have needed a break when I was done. And is this an old first year or second year? Yeah, it's like a second year.
And I'm just going into games. It's mine blank. It's on a pitch. I didn't want to be in there.
So of course I'm going to play bad. And then you get abuse. That was kind of what I tipped it over to be honest. After the Derby game.
It happened. So we won. But, you know, as soon as you get on the bus, it's, you know, Jesse, your shit. Blah, blah, blah.
Like, why are you playing for us? Blah, blah, blah. And if you felt a luke shot back, it's going to be honest. You're playing down off the bus on that side show.
And I'm arguing. But I don't know if the Derby fans are going out here on the spot. Like, I'm human. I mean, of course it's going to affect me.
Like, I'm already down in North anyway. I'm already going through things what you don't know about. And I've got to perform on a weekly basis. And when you're performing, you're not performing at 100%.
So of course it's going to be great. And, you know, you're not playing that well. To be abused like that. Just kind of what, kind of what tipped it to be fair.
That was like, I was like, I can't, I can't be asked anymore. Like, I need a break. I need to find something, some motivation, some fire, my belly again, to get going again because, you know, I can't, I can't be doing this out. And that'd be another game next week.
I'm like, I can't be asked. I can't be asked. I can't, I don't want to play. Just join that time, that time period.
I've heard from what was going on, mom. Look after my little growing system and I felt like a little word on my shoulders. Is this really kind of like moving, haunting partner documentary where, I think your brother, your older brother, has literally a very, very online on the sofa completely. Yeah.
Still, your eyes are like blank. That's how I was. Like, you're not training. Like, it's masking it.
It's just like, it's masking, you know, depression side of things. The anxiety. Like, I was still trying to be Jesse. Like, you know, I've had no jokes on that.
But, you know, I come to the point where you actually need to say something because I felt like, the world was on my shoulders and had no one's sent to. Like, I can't speak to nobody anything. I didn't want to speak to nobody. I thought, you know what, I can do this.
I can handle this. I'm growing enough to do this. But, come to the point where it's like, Ollie, this is what's going on. And we kind of kept it, you know, closing it to be honest.
But, even as to have like, Ollie say like, you know, how is she doing? Like, I could have a conversation with him. I could have a conversation with him. I could have a conversation with the ladies and women.
And that was helped a little bit more. It was having that conversation and letting people understand what I'm going through. And then, I think I did a piece of the paper, you know, talking about it. And, I still don't think people were really fully understood, you know, what was going on.
So, like, I could say a documentary game on it. In order for you to be able to have those conversations with the people, you first had to make the decision to like, for you to talk about how you're feeling. Because once you open up, then they can give you that support. You talked about how it's difficult to do that when you're young man.
Did you realize in that moment that you were suffering with depression? Could you see yourself and your mother? Yeah, probably, yeah. I think the video sums up the moment I want to suffer.
It's almost late for like three minutes, just staring to thinner. I don't know what I was thinking. I don't know what I was thinking. I don't know what was going for my other time.
But, like I said, I was drinking, before bed, like night, I'm like, it's a lot about nothing. I'm not doing that far. Like, what I need is something. It's just trying to take a pain away.
And like, put me at ease somehow. I'm like trying to forget what was going on, but what makes ten times worse? Do you feel the online criticism? Are you exposed to it?
No. Don't read it. You don't read it. No.
Have you ever gone on Twitter and looked at what people are saying? No. I think that's a worse thing than anyone can do. Sometimes it must do that, right?