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Join the 15,000 companies using Vanta to prove trust. Go to vanta.com. Support for the show comes from Odo. Running a business is hard enough.
So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier.
CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part? Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch.
So why not you? Try Odo for free at Odo.com. That's O-D-O-O.com. Hi everyone, this is Pivot to New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network.
I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. So Scott, you're in LA. Hello ladies.
Hello ladies. Are you having a good time? Did you do your lonely bar dinner and everything already? I did, I did.
I go to the bar at the Polo Lounge, and I do my favorite thing, are you alone? Little shop salad. We know how you can tell I like someone as I look at their shoes. They're shoes instead of my own.
Yeah, it's great here. It's now about the pool yesterday. Are you in Santa Monica? No.
The Beverly Hills Hotel. I needed one guess where it is. Okay, it's Beverly Hills. Sorry.
Go ahead. And they called me. So I went out Saturday night. I'm out in a long time.
I've been trying to drink a lot less. And my friend goes to these parties that a guy my age shouldn't be at. But I went anyways. And I had, they had vodka in tequila.
I don't drink either of those things. Tequila makes me anxious. It has no impact on me. I don't drink for taste.
I drink to feel better about myself and everybody else. So they had these hard lemonades. And I started sucking those things down. And it was one of those things where like two, three, nothing.
And then four. On the fourth one, I decided I needed to dance. And whenever I decide I need to dance, that's God's way of saying you need to go home now. No one needs to see me.
And I literally know that whenever I'm like, whenever I start thinking, oh my God, it would be unfair not to share these groovy moves with the rest of the world. Oh, so you didn't dance? Oh, I dance. But regardless of how fucked I am, I have a safety mechanism that goes, must go home now.
You are dancing. Must go home now. And then I was so, I was so, um, I haven't been to someone over in a while. And so I woke up, I got a call at 10 in the morning in my room and I'm like, Mr.
Galloway. And I'm like, yeah. And they're calling to Ireland. Of course.
I'm like, oh, no, no, no. What's happening? We really appreciate you being a friend of the Beverly Hills Hotel. And that you mentioned us on the podcast.
We've gotten a lot of calls. And would you like a cabana today? And so of course I go. I go, yes.
And I wasn't entirely sure when I went down there. That actually happened or I had dreamt it. But you got a cabana? They gave me a cabana.
I got a cabana. So I could buy like $900 of the Vice T's and Rose, but I got the cabana for free. Oh, nice. I mean, it's absolutely love it here.
I'll bring you here. We should come here. We should come here for lunch sometime. I know I never get free shit like that.
This is exciting. All your cabana stories. But we've got a lot to get to, including Elon Musk taking one giant leap into cringiness at Donald Trump's rally. Why Google is losing the ground in search ad market.
Plus our friend at Pivot is Chris Ermsen. I've known him for a long time. The founder and CEO of self-driving truck startup Aurora. He also was the first Google car person way back when.
But when this episode airs, it'll be international lesbian day, just so you know. And so by law, you have to compliment me three times about my lesbian entity. But I also want to know, some of our listeners had a bone to pick about those lesbian divorce numbers you mentioned last week. They were inaccurate.
You said the divorce rate among lesbian couples is 72% according to data out of the UK. But our listeners pointed out that with the data actually said of the total same-sex divorces in the 2019 study, 72% were female, wasn't they? They had a divorce rate of 72%. Yeah.
But the question that we're talking about the producer is like what percentage of gay marriages are two females versus two males? Yeah. So it actually, because I would assume that there are vastly more gay male marriages and gay female marriages, meaning that still lesbians are much more likely to get divorced than gay men. No, I wouldn't.
That's why. No, I wouldn't. See, that's why I was questioning it last week, in fact. But the number we need to know, though, is what percentage of total gay marriages are male versus female?
We don't, do we? We don't. We need to find that data. We don't find that data.
But nonetheless, since this international lesbian day, I'd like you to pay me a compliment. Well, as a element for my incorrect data, I'm going to a WNBA game. You are. Did that work out?
Are you going to do that? I'm excited about it. Yeah, I know. You're going to sit right down on the court, by the way.
FYI. Those are court side tickets you're going to get. Well, I think if a heterosexual white male goes, you should sit in most expensive seats to show that we still have advantage and privilege. Yes.
Well, you'll be sitting around all lesbians just so you know, and the owners, essentially. So I don't know if it has the same proportion or same draw of the gay community, but I've gotten into women's football, the Arsenal. Oh. A women's football team.
Actually, Megan Rebinov brought it up. And so I've been following the... Rapino. Actually, Megan Rapino brought it up.
Yeah. She's sporting Kamala. Thank you. Whatever.
Ninety percent of lesbians get divorced. Listen, scoot. Scoot. Gail away.
Aren't you gay? I was lucky. Anyways, but I've been going, I'm totally following Arsenal women's now. They're amazing.
They have one of the best players in all of female football. Yeah, they can kick a ball. Those ladies can kick a ball. You'll like WVAs really fun.
I'm excited to go. The arena's fun. There's a whole separate area. They're going to take you back where you get free candy.
And there's a beautiful dining room with food. I guess they have it most places. You'll like it a lot. You should go.
That's a really cool facility where Liberty plays. People like it. It's fun. It's fun.
You can get into UC. That's a great thing. They, you know, have all the entertainment and everything else. On Saturday night, one of the reasons, my good friend, Daddy Bond, they had their first birthday party was 80 same.
It was so much fun. Would you wear it? Oh, well, I'm glad you asked. Tom Siders.
Light. five-on-one jeans. Oh, well. A polo shirt.
Odydoss. Superstars. Which have a bomb back then. Varnes.
Hello. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. That's scary on the 80's top.
I mean, we're talking like safety dance. Men without hats. Stompety. A members only jacket.
I saw those members only. went out of style because they didn't really I think they're ironic so it's international lesbian day what do you know it's um yeah members only it's making a comeback you know a lot of lesbians wear members only jackets when they get married and don't get divorced as much as other people anyway on to other news dock workers have returned to work after reaching a tentative deal with the US it's funny because it's true with the US maritime alliance that deals reporting broker with the help of senior by the administration officials and will last until January 15th the union's been pushing for a 77% raise increase over six years reportedly 10 only accepted 62% obviously automation is another big deal for them will Democrats any credit for this winter just crisis aversion we said this would happen it would be so too too sweet what do you think about that it's either neutral to positive for Harris because so first off let's just let's just encourage the writers strike folks at WGA to listen and learn you don't go on strike when your industry is getting the shit kicked out of it and you have no leverage at that moment so okay the industry is in structural decline and having an especially rough year and we have too many people who want to do our jobs and now we're gonna strike and what did they get they got a 5% raise for an eventual 12% over three years the longshoreman basically represent commerce the economy is booming and they pick a point of leverage very strategically before the holidays I mean this is a dirty secret of retail and I learned this painfully China that's right no it's an 11-year-old making my t-shirt somewhere region in China that's so jingoist and awful anyway so but you know 72% less means of course so what you have is effectively this is this is a helpful officer right to be clear that WGA got a 5% raise in the first year for an eventual 12% over three years the dock workers got a tentative 62% over six years so I'm happy about that the majority at the ports of New York New Jersey about two thirds of Longshoreman make at least a hundred K which I think is great and these guys had a lot of leverage every day they were out they were gonna take the economy down by five billion dollars so this is I'm happy for the longshoreman I'm happy for the economy I'm happy for Harris because it takes one of the three October surprises off the table it was the strike it was Iran slash Israel and then the hurricane but I was headed with another king coming when I was on the board of red envelope there was a we're coming into the holidays and dirty secret retailer I was going here was that you lose money 44 weeks a year and then the eight weeks leading up to the holidays is where you just print money yeah exactly and in about the end of November the longshoreman in Long Beach went on strike and our entire inventory for the holiday and you might ask what shit had decided to put all of your holiday inventory on one boat was stuck seven miles off of the Long Beach coast and that in combination with a credit crisis and a software mishap that sent 15,000 gifts to the wrong address which is not a good 10 carat took the company from eight bucks a share to chapter 11 in about three weeks yeah it was good that it was not a good you're right it's a wash but it's good that it's not there just hanging on by the way there is another hurricane coming there's gonna be a lot of them I mean you know we'll get into that in a minute because the climate is changing something's going on yeah I know I don't know what to think you know of course no climate change to be a Republican but speaking of things that are terrible for social media companies three separate states that reveal lawsuits in social media last week Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton who is a really shady character I think we can say his suit tiktok has a right yeah suit tiktok for violating the state's parental consent law New Mexico's Attorney General and bail the lawsuit who's a Democrat I think he's a Democrat and bail the lawsuit against snap for ignoring reports of sextortion and failing to implement verifiable age verification the Arkansas A.D. files a lawsuit against Google YouTube and alpha violin state deceptive trade practices mean mind the kids online safety act is stalled in the house there's issues around how it's phrase et cetera but this is all around children's safety again a lot of it's around parental consent or abuse sex abuse or sort of those those age kind of related things thoughts 59% of teens age 13 to 17 years Instagram and according to a 2022 study 24% one in four adolescents are social media addicts can you name any substance any activity that has a one in four addict ratio yep I mean maybe nicotine maybe cigarettes and here's the thing if you were to say how could you really fuck up America well could we do something that gets people addicted that polarizes them that makes a more prone to conspiracy theory makes them lack self-esteem makes them more inclined to self-harm and who would we do it against if we were really evil I know 13 to 17 year-olds as their brains are getting wired so we can set up a future of addiction and massive need for Dopa hits and here's the problem just as meta delayed and obfuscated we need to do better we're proud of the progress we've made and have addicted a quarter of America's youth or 25% of 60% so one in 17s are now addicted to this thing their stock has gone up 90% and that's the problem is there so much fucking money in the business of addiction there is it's more than that it's also how they're fixing it's there's a really great series maybe we'll have the director on social studies on FX yeah it's right it's by the woman who did the Queen of their size which was a great documentary filmmaking but let me just read this you limited series social studies a groundbreaking character during the documentary series it does in life the first generation digital natives it was filmed in Los Angeles over a school year and I really want to see it as supposed to be really quite something but it's you know you don't need the fact that we're sitting around arguing over this scenes waiting for more information to come in it's really kind of like we know what's going on and we by the way we know it for ourselves for adults the same thing the addiction issues around phones but you'll be interested in see how we handle this but it should be treated like cigarettes or anything else especially around kids just we keep saying this over and over and it's not censorship to do so the kids know it the kids are the adults in the room one third of respondents of kids 18 to 27 or young adults said they thought they wish Instagram had never been invented and nearly half of that said said the same for tiktok it's the kids even the young kids realize this is not it's irresistible I got in tiktok this weekend for a minute and it was an hour later it was crazy easy easy crazy I haven't and then I like threw the phone that I use for tiktok in a drawer and locked it I was like no that must stay over there because I just was it was very pleasing it was very pleasing it was a lot of cooking I got a lot of cooking stuff I like cooking that's I was gonna say it says a lot of the algorithm knows you better than you know it does I really like plantings and then I also like there's something else that always comes up just plants and like and hardware hacks I got him such a lesbian international lesbian day anyway let's get to our first big story with a month ago before the election vice president Kamala Harris is embarking on a media blitz this week she kicked things off with an interview on the podcast call her daddy and is set to appear on 60 minutes the view Stephen Colbert and the Howard Stern over the next few days governor Tim Waltz is also getting in on the action he'll be on Jimmy Kimmel is also recording interview on smartless podcast he was also on Fox News which is interesting most of these will be light and friendly interviews some will be more hard-hitting is this a good idea is it too little too late or what's the strategy strategic here well the thing that struck me about it is just that how much the world has changed in four years where the you know the presidential candidates are kind of big news event of the big media events is not that they're over going on 60 minutes tonight it's they're going on this podcast I mean it really is it speaks to how podcasts have become such an important medium and the fact that you went on color by the time you listed it's really it's really strong and Alex Cooper is fantastic she was good color daddy is one of the five most popular podcasts in the US and you know they filled a sweet spot they said we're adults we're women we're gonna talk about things that women aren't necessarily supposed to talk about in a very thoughtful funny way authentic raw and I thought it was a great move for her to go on I thought she handled herself well Trump's going on Manosphere podcast it just what I take away from it is it speaks to the medium they're not they're not dying to go on CNN or Fox I mean they do that stuff but the thing I've noticed more than anything about the impact we have is the people we help the most they want to come on the most are people with a book if someone comes on our show and talks about their new book you will tangibly see a market increase in book sales that day and I would think I would think that the same people by books disproportionately vote so I think it's a great medium for those folks I do too the thing I thought about is four years ago I don't think these candidates were going on these pods well you know Obama went on mine a long time ago I think they were aware there it is I'll let that go because of international lesbian I'm just saying I'm saying a comma and vice president Harris has been on my podcast but I think it's I think it's a very different I would agree I think she should go and Joe Rogan like I was like don't go on just 100% I think she should go on Joe Rogan I think he would be good how it's done makes sense that's makes sense to do that's a great one to do to Colbert is good the view is excellent but it will matter for her because no matter how many she does it's not enough for the present and the fact that she's not doing a big New York Times interview I think is really interesting that to me is the most interesting is that what they're not doing offense she's getting her footing and okay we'll never be enough for the people who just don't like her but she should be out there and the thing that really in my opinion kind of highlighted that the secretary Clinton didn't run a great campaign her best media parents hands down was on Howard Stern she was likable she was funny the problem was she went on after the election the bottom line is you can't play defense and erase this close you got to play offense and you got to take some rest and you just said what I think if I and you know that you know that the people at the Harris campaign I don't if there's any one thing I would suggest to her right now is Rogan because if you actually listen to Rogan which I don't he's a little positive towards her he's very impressed with her and he gets the assignments he's not gonna he's not gonna try and call her out and embarrass her he's gonna be excited about her being there it'll be in generally speaking you know he doesn't push back on anyone including if they're if they're you know distributing or spreading conspiracy theory that mRNA vaccines all to your DNA that would be a great move for her in that man's fear right now I believe it's still one of the few groups that is up for grabs she should absolutely go on Rogan would be the place to go Rogan or trying to think what else no Rogan she should go on Rogan yeah I like call her daddy too that's a good that's the ladies that's a great move yeah great move yeah she should come on our podcast that's really she should do speaking of strange media appearances former president Donald Trump returned to Butler Pennsylvania on the site of his first assassination term for rally this weekend Trump was joined on stage by Elon Musk who literally jumped in the air a moment captured a photo launched many memes I have to know what you thought of this I saw some of your threads and I wrote on threads Elon's tummy just beat out Dukakis in a tank he said he was a think of Howard Dean it was so embarrassing it was so awkward he called himself dark MAGA a lot of people are calling him Dork MAGA another nickname for him was PayPal the teen because he had that weird look in another picture it was full of weird Elon I can't imagine Trump being happy about any of this but what do you think of this also Trump by the way gave a speech and I noted this on Chris Wall's this weekend his cognitive difficulties are so apparent and the New York Times finally wrote a big story about it this week I've been saying this for a while the cognitive exchange worst I mean he says crazy things all the time this is a whole new level of cognitive failure on his part your thoughts on the Elon jump whatever it was well let's go in there's a lot that was going reverse order with respect to his cognitive function or dysfunction both of us had this early and often to the you know to the to the bother of many of our listeners and that is Biden which is fucking old biology says hold my beer around what you think of what you're hoping is gonna happen if Trump is reelected he will be older than Biden was when he was too old to run for president except Trump has supposedly a history of mental impairment or dementia he refuses to release the records of his cognitive tests and he's obese so folks I mean Biden was too old and this guy is way too old now as it relates to Trump and and Musk or as I say Sissy Space X he's literally like the reality is for the campaign for their core constituents it was probably a good move a lot of people really admire for a lot of understandable reasons Musk to me there's a it represents the two of them on stage and how much love and graduation again represents something deeper and darker and that is the aspirational vision of masculinity represented by these guys has turned so course so vile being such you know between the two of them they have 17 kids by six different women with with Musk you have a guy who when he gets to a position of power accuses his workers of sex crimes falsely such that they have to leave their home does not pay contracted legally obligated severance dead names says his daughter is dead to him dead to him and yet we have VCs including those that come on our podcast make all sorts of fucking excuses for the guy and what I have found is that generally speaking it represents this dark peanut butter and chocolate zeitgeist in our society where we have conflated masculinity with coarseness with cruelty and some fucked up vision that as long as you're rich you can treat women like shit you can be a shitty dad a shitty employer I mean these these guys it was literally like the parade of poor role models for young men yeah it really it's just so upsetting that and it reflects something that over the last 40 years people have gotten so sick of politicians grinsfucking them never saying anything impolite never actually saying what might be going on trying to please everyone lying to everybody being PG 13 at best they were just so ready for someone to come in and quite frankly just be really coarse and these two are literally the the Fred and ginger of in my view what it means to be to not be a real man yeah I would agree I would it's interesting because I do think I agree there's a lot of people who really do revere Elon Musk but boy did he look Yorkie boy did it that was weird and I props face I thought was interesting several times I don't think he liked it much at all actually I think he was like what is he doing taking up all my fucking oxygen it's like to like desperate people desperate for attention sponges fighting with each other kind of things with the jumping and the weirdness and you know who knows what he was on you know it just was I thought it was embarrassing actually it was embarrassing it's like my first marriage our first time we had one vanity in the bathroom it got ugly it got ugly wait I need to look at me I need to look at me he seemed uncomfortable in several of the pictures it was it was like Elon needs the attention more and it's a bear it's it's like a desperate like he makes Trump look humble by comparison I have to say it was it was weird other Trump was meandering all over the place but but just a circle back I think it's good for Trump I just think there's this that they both Trump and Musk have this and the zealot like the event you know this cultish religious like following and it's kind of the same it's a little bit of the same person it's kind of I think there can be this is Highlander to me there can be only one I think they're gonna have such a falling out it's gonna be delicious to watch when it comes after the election I mean we'll see we'll see what we'll see who wins but by the way speaking of who wins well Elon is all in on Trump some people in big tech are hedging their best this was interesting Ben Horitz and his wife Felicia plan on making a significant donation to Kamala Harris's campaign Horitz announced his decision and email to injuries in Horitz and police last week things encouraged by conversations with Harris around a quote little tech agenda I'm no idea what that means they Horitz and Marc Andreessen endorsed Trump back in July for the farm and someone on threads put at the seat investment didn't work out so the growth fund invested in a competitor so I thought this was interesting breaking news breaking news we see covers his ass yeah let me get this I mean these guys were so stupid to come out in favor of either candidate as aggressively as they did that was just so it shocks me when Sequoia capital or Andreessen Horitz okay at the end of the day we're just about money fine I get it but just admit it and we're under the impression that Trump if we support him well basically say oh these guys give me a lot of money so if they want me to put ten billion dollars into a stablecoin or into crypto I'll do it so they saw their chance to make a lot of money more more likely with with Trump than Harris but you do it quietly you don't come out because when Sequoia capital andries and Horowitz endorsed Trump which they did then be clear we were all listening when you did that and if you're the state pension their largest investors are institutional investors and pension funds and when Michigan State Teachers Fund says says okay let me get this you're into we send you money and pay you money we overpay you you're some of the most you're some of the wealthiest people in the world fine and then you take some of that money to endorse a candidate that may not share the political views of our teachers who are 74% women young women who are really kind of into this thing called bodily autonomy I can't imagine the letters they got from their investors saying this is why I pay you and boss be clear there are a lot of EC funds looking for our money who are not taking political stands yeah it was weird these guys you know what happened here I think I'd so much shit and I thought oh my god if she wins we are fucked I know let's pretend that somehow we like her as well just in case this is a very expensive insurance policy it's like trying to get health insurance when the MRI comes back and says there's a growth on your long I just find this I don't think this I don't think it helps them you know Ben we remember entries and Horowitz coming out very hard for Trump and now that it's a toss-up let me just give you the quote I wish we didn't have to pick a side said Horowitz who acknowledged his political choice what upset many friends and even his mother we literally believe the future of our business the future of technology in the future of America is at stake I mean this is when Biden was still in FYI but still that was pretty firm we wish we didn't have to pick a side then you shouldn't have to decide boy you know and now of course picking another side is the same difference you know for profit companies including a venture capital firm which is for profit all in caps they're so outstanding and making money the U.S. corporation makes more money than any entity ever invested in history it's an amazing thing it pays for our Navy it pays for unemployment insurance it pays for child services it's a wonderful part of what is wonderful in America they're so good at it though you shouldn't be trusted do anything else nor should you do anything else other than be really good citizens good your employees good environment good at the community but for God's sakes stay the fuck out of politics I'm all to stay out like I'm like so tired of them like going down on the left to get get out get out go I don't care what you think of Ukraine I want to go pull the curtain vote for whoever you want give money fine fine that's right don't put you but don't put anything in corporate letterhead that's not that's not why the U.S.
corporation exists I seldom say stay in your lane but stay in your fucking lane I seldom say that like just quietly if you want to do it that's the whole thing anyway good luck Ben we'll see I think she'll take your money but still it's kind of gross all right Scott let's go on a quick break and we come back Google's ads are stummond slips not a surprise to us and we'll speak of the friend of Pivot Chris Ermsen about getting driverless trucks on the road I've talked him before it really interesting guy recommendations can be amazing I mean maybe someone recommended that TV show you've been obsessed with lately but when it comes to home projects it's different if you don't like a show you might lose a few minutes if you hire a friend of a friend of a friend to fix a leaky ceiling you could end up with a flooded kitchen maybe I know a guy just isn't enough for your home that's why thumbtack works so well they'll match you with the top rated local pro and you can see photos of past work credentials and reviews all right in the app for your next home project try thumbtack hire the right pro today support for the show comes from Odo running a business is hard enough so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other introducing Odo it's the only business software you'll ever need it's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier CRM accounting inventory e-commerce more and the best part Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost that's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch so why not you try Odo for free at Odo.com that's ODOO.com support for the show comes from Odo running a business is hard enough so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other introducing Odo it's the only business software you'll ever need it's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier CRM accounting inventory e-commerce more and the best part Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost that's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch so why not you try Odo for free at Odo.com that's ODOO.com Scott we're back Google is finally facing the actual competition it comes in nearly $300 billion search ad business companies like TikTok the AI search startup perplexity began to challenge Google's dominance with targeted ad initiatives for brands Amazon is also gaining ground has been for a while with consumers going directly the e-commerce platform for product searches where I do all of them now who will share the U.S. search ad market expect to drop low 50% next year the first time in over a decade according to the research firm e-market Google is trying to use AI to its advantage rolling out ads alongside those AI-generated summaries they now have there they've been under pressure obviously still in courts to prove it's not unfair to competitors and recent antitrust trials but you know having rivals is a good thing for them in this regard talk a little bit about things because perplexity is reportedly talks with Nike and Marriott tied to its new ad models laws companies to bid for a sponsored question what do you think about this I think search is kind of over we've talked about this idea of where search is going well there's anecdotal evidence and then a metaphor I'd make me anecdotal evidence is that I now my default search engines are now chat GPT and cloud I just typing I type in questions and I get a more thoughtful interesting response and then I can with Google I can't follow up and go why did you say that or please support please provide more data on your answer or this component of your answer seems off to me what what is the source here I can't do that with Google and the analogy and I think it's a good one is retail and that is the early big winners that really drove a ton of shareholder value the best performing stock in the 1980s was a company that took every electronic device and put it all in one big box called Circuit City where services state-of-the-art I think was the term then it was Best Buy before that Walmart was the stock to own right and before that it was Department Source Sears and JC Pennies and then over the last really the last 20 to 30 years the majority of the shareholder gains in retail have been in specialty retail consumers don't want more choice they want to be more confident in the choices presented and that is the point especially retail Williamson almost says we're not going to give you 50 toasters to choose from we're going to pick the best two because we have better taste in kitchen appliances and you do by the way do a little electro electro electro hands down best posters and then Sephora said we're not going to be Macy's with all these different counters and people we're going to pick these emerging brands they're edited and you know when you're looking for whatever is lip balm we have the two or three best lip balms and with and then Lulu Lemon became worth more than retailers 10 times the size and that's the analogy here Google is Walmart it's fucking everything you type in best podcast in America and I'll give you articles on trends and media it'll give you deep dives into Joe Rogan and you have to sort through all the different toasters and try and figure out which one to buy whereas when you go into the Sephora of that or the Williamsonoma of that which is chat GPT it says you know what we're better at giving you the right answer and we're going to try and just give you one answer that would be better on average than any one of the 5300 returns given to 1.05 seconds it's specialty retail and it's going to create a ton of shareholder value I mean Google's gonna go away no but the majority of incremental shareholder value from quote unquote search is going to go to the specialty retailers that edit and merchandise the answer which is the AI guys yeah when I started doing commerce search on Amazon I hadn't gone back to Google to do con because it was such it was like all the library books on the floor right it's like where is it where I'm looking for what am I I try it but then I always seem to find what I want on Amazon or somewhere else I think we will use artificial intelligence for search that's the end of it and especially with Apple getting ready to roll out Apple and tell us at the end of this month we'll see how they deploy it by they announced it back in June when they're officially in the game I suspect they'll do a good job at bringing out it's not just would you like to rewrite this email I don't think that's just because that's so irritating on Google right now would you like to rewrite this email but there's other things that that you will use it for and you're right you get a better answer and it's as if search came to you versus you finding search right and I do think that Google has to think hard because they have not been one of the problems of them being the dominant search engine they haven't been innovative because they haven't had to be they haven't been pressured by competitors who are putting out better you know we talked about the various attempts to compete with Google but they really haven't had competition in decades and that just makes you they've owned it and it's made you they've never innovated they have not innovated search they haven't needed to they didn't need to roll out sell or fiber optic or data analytics which was stuck in Bell Labs because AT&T is like I remember when my mom and dad got divorced and my dad moved to Columbus, Ohio to work for OM Scotts and then he moved to Chicago to work for the other fertilizer company Vigero anyways we live in Glen Ellen Chicago and when I would go there during the summers on the weekend on a Saturday he and I would take a train for 40 minutes to downtown Chicago I remember he was into speed walking I have to run behind him and then he stops and he's sorry is a new piece of insight but go ahead he's going too fast he doesn't wait for you around I'm so fucked up on the head yeah that was a big one right there the same point the same corner he'd stop and he'd point up he wouldn't even say anything and he pointed the Sears Tower to make a tall building the world isn't that funny tall building world is called the Sears Tower back in the 70s anyways the reason we traips downtown on a train for 40 minutes to his office on a Saturday was so I could use the watts line because calling my mom in California costs like a buck a minute I could run I could run up a $30 phone tab and my dad being Scottish and having literally being broken around money and so deeply cheap we would spend our Saturday morning going to the office to use a watts line it was just so they had such a lock on the market and they didn't innovate and Google has not innovated I will give them this they are innovating when you do those Google searches now now the top query is kind of this AI generated it's not a good one it's not as good but at least they're trying but trying isn't good enough if you're dominant you make all the money they can't just try they have to lead and you know I feel like they don't lead they just respond have you tried the new every tried their AI offering no the new notebook where you can make podcasts out of them right that one yeah it's but it is pretty specialized and pretty interesting but there's just this will be but they're keeping an AI because there's competition right that's why they're competing in a hundred percent and it might be a daily in a dollar short this will be exhibit A when any professor across strategy talks about the innovators dilemma they're going to talk about how Google basically invented drove AI but had such a big business they didn't want to threaten that they sat on their hands and someone came in very small start nipping at their heels and basically they woke up and they had a great white shark that had taken them up to their midsize in their torso in its jaws this will be exhibit one for the environment I do not do Google search any as much I mean it's definitely it's like me going to the movies it's like decline what do you use Amazon for commercial that's where I do most of my searching is on stuff I'm looking for and occasionally I use Google but it's so frustrating now it's so cluttered it doesn't give me the answers I want anymore that I'm starting to use somewhere that can make more money yes exactly and I can feel it it's so cluttered anyway we'll see I think they're much bigger probably be interesting to see what happens to their lawsuit the unfair advantage whether it continues you know that's a problem with these things there's now rivals I don't know if it'll change the fact of what they did but it certainly informs what they're going to do going forward I love I love rivalry I think it's the best thing for consumers but we'll see anyway let's bring in a friend of pivot Chris Ermsen is a founder and CEO of Aurora a company focusing on autonomous trucking technology we talked many times before about it and I met Chris back when he was doing the autonomous cars at Google welcome Chris thanks for having me so you've got it over back in 2017 as I said before that you're running Google's self-driving car project you're the first person who put me in a self-driving car can you talk a little bit about where Aurora is now we've talked we've talked in the interim about where it's going and I've seen some of your trucks that come to where you were making them you talked a lot about shortages in our country where I think we're down 60 K to 78 K trucks and stuff like that so talk a little bit about why you went into it and where we are today yeah so we're focused on building this technology to drive trucks safely down the road over the next decade we expect we're going to need another million people willing to drive trucks and it's a really important job but it's a really difficult job that we just can't get enough people who want to do that and as you know you know the ability to move goods and the logistics chain is just fundamental to the US economy operating and we see a huge opportunity to make that whole on-road driving safer and so for us we've been working with a number of great partners including Volvo and Packard who make about half the trucks sold in the US and we're working to safely get the first driverless trucks on the road so you have them on the road correct correct at this point yeah if you write drive between now and Houston or between Fort Worth El Paso you can see our trucks on the road now today we have people on board who are monitoring those trucks but almost all of the time they're driving themselves and what we're pushing to is get to the point where we can safely take those operators out of the vehicles and really have them go the trucks go do the work go to the work now one of the some of the factors of trying to get people out of them is an aging workforce under representation of women and obviously challenging work conditions of sleeping and everything else yeah it is like if you look around the room you're in everything that room moved on the truck at some point and so I'm incredibly thankful for the people who want to do this job but it's hard right it's days are weeks away from home it is leads to lots of long-term health problems in fact if you are a truck driver you're 10 times likely to die on the job is the average American and so that means that over time people don't want to do the job you know back at when I was at the University we used to talk about dull dirty and dangerous as the places where you can see automation or robotics really helping society and that's kind of what we have with trucking and that's why we're so excited about moving it forward so but when you think about that the idea of automation and everything else obviously the long shoreman just settled but one of them because they're getting more money etc their strike but one of their issues was automation coming to docks for example there is a perception that you're gonna kill people's jobs explain you know there but there's a shortage of drivers at the same time or people willing to do this job that's right and I would say my expectation is that if you are driving a truck today and you want to retire driving a truck you're gonna be able to do that but in the interim what we're going to see is more automation come in to support the logistic industry and that over time there'll be less and less people that actually do this job because in the same way we have fewer fewer saddle makers than we had way back in the day and if you look at there's a study by the Department of Transportation and they see that this technology is actually going to grow the US economy and I think the irrelevant metaphor is if you think about what happened with the automated teller and banks that originally there was this concern okay that's gonna kill you know the banking industry there won't be people to work there and the online teller actually came in and what it did was it'll loudly reduce the cost of operating a bank to the point where they could open more branches and it moved the people that were the tellers from basically a cost center to a profit center instead of standing there to count out your dollar bills they were now offering you know helping customers with new financial services and so we expect there's a whole bunch of new jobs that will come around this and as we make moving goods more efficient to support you know the the increasing demands for what you need now that there'll be all kinds of exciting jobs in the logistic space it's nice to me so a couple things one this just makes so much sense if someone had said based on trends around just economic trends around which part of automation makes the most sense I think almost anyone would have lined up and looked at the data and said okay they can drive late at night back one of our economy not a great job it just seems like automated driving for long-haul trucking in the middle of the night when there's no traffic just makes all sorts of sense and yet it really hasn't got the track the same traction is EVs or at least it doesn't get the attention that I can tell is the obsession with automated consumer vehicles what has gotten in the way of the type of adoption I would imagine you and your investors are expecting what is it is it unions is it technology is it regulation what is the friction here getting the way of adoption so I think the first part is that the imagination is caught more viscerally by the road taxi space right it's where I worked for a long time and kind of people can connect with that in a way that they don't really connect with long-haul trucking since you know we don't make smoking the banded anymore any of those kind of movies and then the second part is that at some point we realized that making the self-driving cars was hard and so there were a bunch of companies actually that jumped into the space like oh we'll just go through trucking that's so much easier because you know freeways are straight and there's not much happens there and it turns out they were ill-informed right it turns out that when you're driving a car around the city yeah there's more stuff you have to interact with but when you're moving at 15 miles an hour you can stop within you know 15 feet whereas if you're driving on the freeway you can't just stop for one thing and you know it takes you 150 meters to 200 meters to stop and so you know the kinetic energy involved with a 70,000 pound truck and 70 miles an hour is completely different so people underestimated how hard the technological problem would be and so we saw a flourishing of companies in the space and they all kind of died out because they didn't really understand the strategic investment you'd have to make and things like we have this special kind of LiDAR which is laser radar that allows us to see much further than you can see or any that we think the Robotaxy folks can see and that gives us the confidence that we can respond safely to things that are on the road so when you're thinking about where it's going one of the things is this idea of what regulation is coming for these one of the there's been some statewide regulation for autonomous vehicles nothing on a federal level would you support national regulation there have been several self-driving companies are currently facing federal investigations as you said about multiple crashes these are largely the way modes of the GM's etc. in the Robotaxy area how do you look at what it should be or is this should be a state-by-state because you're operating in Texas which presumably is more amenable than other states to this correct that's why you're there yeah and so there's a little bit of a mess number so one is in most of the states today we could operate I think 44 the US states either by explicit law or implicitly we're able to operate self-driving roads if we are confident in the safety of it the federal government generally is responsible for the regulation of the safety of the vehicle and I think that they've been really thoughtful so they've over time they've put out guidelines that kind of say here are best practices that you should be following and that you know we we generally adhere to and I think that's the right kind of mindset for them to have been in right is this is an evolving technology we want to be careful that we don't create regulation that prevents its adoption and sees the US benefit from the safety the sustainability benefits the economic benefits of this as the this becomes real let me start to understand what the challenges are and where the right what the right kind of regulation is absolutely we'd love to see a federal standard on safety or on what are driving on highways themselves which are federally correct well you know we look at this as an interstate commerce kind of challenge right though you know we're driving trucks today within Texas but soon to Phoenix and then ultimately across the United States and so having consistent regulation across the United States would be valuable and simplify some of what we do but there's already significant oversight I think this is something that's missed is that at the state level we work closely with Texas DOT and Department of Public Safety we've been working hand-in-hand with them helping them understand the technology helping them make sure that they are in a position to regulate as they see fit and similarly with the federal government and in both cases they can intercede even without further jurisdiction right that they can say presumably Texas is nicer than New York for example in terms of these things well Texas is a better market for us and the good people of Texas have been very welcoming the technology welcome everybody the same but one of the things that you noted is the robo-taxis get all suck up all the oxygen right so Elon Musk has this big robo-taxi event in LA this week which you take on the robo-taxi industry as a whole and I will point out that Musk doesn't have any robo-taxis on the road and there are many efforts by Google with Waymo and GM with Cruz although they've had a rockier road but Waymo seems to be proceeding pretty strongly despite issues they've been testing these cars for a long long time talk about the whole and what you expect from this Musk event yeah so the industry I think it's exciting that we've kind of ridden the the Gartner hype curve right that in 2016 everybody in the dog is gonna have a self-driving car tomorrow that didn't happen and then we kind of crashed through the the valley disillusionment where is this ever gonna work and now you stand in Street corner San Francisco and you'll likely see two Waymo cars drive by with nobody in the driver seat right so it's happening and from what I hear people really love the experience I do I use it a lot it seems like a great product I think the business is challenging right the economics of just building and deploying that and scaling that I think it's gonna be hard but I think it's I think it has the possibility and the opportunity to really re-democratize transportation right if you think about I know you're a bolt owner that you know 95% of that time that car is that parking somewhere and so that's a lot of resources tied up in that that if it could drive itself could be more visually serving the community help people get around now whether the technological approach that the Tesla folks are taking is gonna get there I have significant doubts but you know the overarching arc of this is that this technology is gonna be huge for improving safety and making easier people get around what's the challenge that you were just referring to from your perspective economic challenge just lots of money or use it so that one of the reasons that we think trucking is a great first market is that we value driving a truck about three times as much as we value driving a car and so when you think about introducing a new technology the place you want to enter somewhere where the the both the unit economics are large enough that they can support introduction of new technology is gonna be more expensive initially and that the market size is gigantic so if you think about trucking United States about a trillion dollar market today and in right hailing it's about a 60 to 80 billion dollar market and the way that you expand the right hailing market is you drive costs down and so that becomes challenging for a business whereas we're we're introducing in the trucking market the idea will be that you buy a truck you'll pay us to drive the truck for you and so it fits exactly into the market structure today so the combination of much bigger market that you don't have to change customer behavior for and much better unit economics mean that we can be building a business and profitable and have the privilege to continue to pursue our business while you're gonna have to continue to be cost cutting cost cutting on the other side and investing heavily to make it happen so do you think that the constant over promising and under delivering around robo-taxis mostly mostly at the feet of one person do you think it's made people cynical and ultimately has heard the industry as we're all sort of rolling our eyes anyone begins to talk about or or ventures to guess when this is actually gonna be rolled out and have widespread adoption hasn't has an industry kind of become known for over promising and under delivering I think I think that's fair and I think but I think that's true of almost any new technology that comes to market that there's a period of time where people are like this is exciting right and this is why Gartner has the high-curve model and hype but I think what's happened with this is we spent you know a decade where the thing we got was you know 144 character tweets and some things that didn't feel like big new technology steps and as this kind of got on to the stage one we had to develop in public because we're on the public roads and there's responsibility to kind of help be transparent about that with the others it captured the imagination and so I think it really you know it had all the normal high-curve but with it you know accelerated even more so amplified because of how visceral and exciting it is for folks and just real quick you're married with children I am yeah live with your kids my kids are both the college actually and so one's at UC Davis and one's at University Rochester and how long have you been married? 25 years so let me get this an innovator trying to change the world married for 25 years two kids on good terms with your kids yep really enjoy listen up young man listen up this is the these are the innovators who also happen to be men you also didn't jump up and down to Trump rally this weekend did you on the stage no I didn't jump up down to Trump rally okay no asking for a friend so I didn't mean to use you as a property a little bit but couldn't be more different Scott I've known them both that could not be more different as people in general you know you have this big to get these drivers trucks and road in Texas and you have to have them between states because Texas and the only place you want to deliver self right Texas but you shared back in August that were at a raise $483 million by selling additional shares of the company that's top of $1 billion liquidity back in June you talk about how expensive it is to get there you feel this is this is the one area that will in autonomy become profitable for the other you're right the other is a race to the bottom in some way for a while at least yeah we see the path to build the business to go and deliver a valuable product to customers in the trucking space build that up you set to drive up scale that'll help us drive down costs and then you know fundamentally the the technology to drive a truck is very similar to technology to drive a car and so we see ourselves ultimately going and working that space as well but doing that for absolutely and you think about the intelligence we're building to understand the built world right in the driving world that's gonna be really interesting there's gonna be lots of places over time that we can apply that but right now the job is let's get this product out in the market let's go make sure our customers find it valuable that we deliver on our promises there and then we can go build a business in other places as well you know that would be a bus or things like that or so I think in I think people will want different solutions right if you look at the automotive market their masters that segmenting that space and so I do actually believe the long-term road tax evasion I also think there's an opportunity to augment public transportation right so today we kind of packetize or you know the the people moving into these 50 person buses and we've all been there where we've seen this bus go by with two people on it or nobody on it imagine that and those buses by the way are restricted to you know certain lanes because that's where we can afford to have them and they're kind of gerrymandered imagine you can because you don't have to have a driver in each vehicle you can have a six-person vehicle and that can be called through the public transit authority and it can route dynamically over time you can really provide a valuable public service through that with a long-term as you drive the cost down so I think there's gonna be like I we are going through this phase that never happens as quickly in the near term as you expect of transforming for the first time in a hundred years what it means to move around in cities yeah it's incredibly exciting it is indeed anyway thank you Chris Armsen Aurora good luck you're also Canadian just you know just try that it explains everything totally explains everything hold on University of Manitoba PhD from Carnegie Mellon to you're the innovator we need right now I'm looking at all this just hence why I brought him Scott so you can have a better vision of these Robotax he fellas that's very kind of you to say thank you thank you so much Chris there you go thanks so much thank sure good work Scott I like to bring you nice man I know all the nice ones in tech I've tried to be treated though you brought on a Canadian that's redundant no no no he's really great I met him when he was at Google and he I tried out his first cars he was always so enthusiastic and a really a good guy and I appreciate you know he's he's worked it's a tough business that he's in right because he was at the pioneering part of this and he's just worked really hard and not that he's not a hand-waver he doesn't make things up like this Robotax event that Elon's doing is such a fucking nonsense they haven't had a mile on the road I mean maybe if I don't know try it out but you know Waymo's been at it but they haven't he's just gonna wave his hands and look at me and same thing it's a total difference in people and he's and Chris is the one I would focus it on anyway one more quick break we'll be back for wins and fails once on a mundane morning Barb's take up busy without warning a realtor in the event open house sign no 50 of them and designed before nine my head hurts anybody tools to help with it like a hot bar made her move she opened him up and got in the groove well creating canvas sheets create 50 signs fit for suburban streets on a flick all complete sweet now imagine what your dreams can become when you put imagination to work at canva.com once upon a dismal day Bob's ice cream man looked gloomy and gray although he had big ambitions his social lacked creative vision that bad maybe I have an idea Bob launched canva and got into gear create the video in a vampire team to make it the funniest I mean it went viral Bob's business now imagine what your dreams can become when you put imagination to work at canva.com some say the bubbles in an air travel piece can take 34 seconds to melt in your mouth sometimes the very amount you're stuck at the same red light rich creamy chocolatey air travel feel the air bubbles melt it's mind bubbling okay Scott let's hear some wins and fails you go first well I'll just start with my fail I think I would be remiss if I didn't highlight we're recording on the one-year anniversary where approximately 1200 people were killed attacked by Hamas approximately 210 I believe were taken hostage 97 hostage are still still being held in Gaza following their abduction by Hamas during attacks this includes 33 confirmed deceased whose bodies remain in Gaza the number of hostages still alive is believed to be fewer than 70 and estimate suggests many have not survived the ongoing conflict some of the people taking hostages included a 10 month old who has reportedly been killed a five year old a 10 year old and anyways just just I think it's important that we don't forget that there are still being there are still a lot of people being held in terrible conditions underground that absolutely could be released they're not combatants these are civilians elderly young people so anyways today marks that one year anniversary that's my that's my fail we should not be there my my win is something much more hopeful I had a wonderful weekend I think I told you I saw about 11 guys from my fraternity UCLA when I showed up to you so I was 17 it was back in the space race where any especially a boy who showed any academic promise was like told a skip a grade and my friend Mike Baruch who I've been hanging out with this weekend when I met him freshman orientation at UCLA he was 16 can you imagine a 16 year old going to UCLA I mean my boy is 17 and he's a wonderful young man but the thought that he would be my agent at UCLA right now is just insane anyways my my when and my vice after like hanging out with all these wonderful men and their kids and just how much joy and reward we have registered from each other of the last 40 plus years my advice to any young person but especially young man who aren't as good at kind of weaving a social fabric is you need to find your fraternity you need to find your people when you get out of high school or maybe in high school the moment you turn 18 one of the things you need to do to set up success in your life and mental well-being is to find your fraternity I mean find your tribe I don't care it's through it's a church group if it's through a nonprofit if it's through a group on campus if it's a fraternity or sorority you really do need to be thoughtful and say my life is largely gonna be driven by a series of things that are outside of my control when and where you are born determines the majority of your success or lack thereof unfortunately but there are some things you can control and you want to find a good group of people that are smart that are kind that are ambitious and right away find your fraternity find a group and start investing in those guys because or or women and the reason I focus on young men is young men just aren't as good at it and there are I think one of the biggest threats in our society right now is there's just increasingly a huge cohort of young men that quote unquote aren't finding their fraternity and the when you find it when you're 18 there's just a group of guys quite frankly we don't have a ton in common other than we liked each other and we came together at a young age and what that means is you run into them you know 10, 20, 40 years later and you have real affection for each other and that you know it's so wonderful yeah anyways my my my my my win and advice to young men find your find your tribe oh sweet God I always love when you talk like this you know that it's a very touching it's very touching the friendships you've made that was one of the great things about going to your birthday party was seeing all your different friendships over the many years you know especially the ones from like fourth grade and stuff like that when you just think about how many young people especially on men aren't finding that I agree you know not going into work not going to college not joining the army where do they find a tribe that's right that's right well you've definitely got a tribe you got a tribe there you go Scott Galloway has a tribe it's very touching when you talk about it I'm excited for your book about this topic I think it's really important when people are showing such bad signs of masculinity to have a counter narrative is critically important I think my fail it's not a fail this hurricane Milton is reaching category five strength as a approach to Florida I think we have to it's there's you know we just had this terrible storm that really did devastating amounts of devastation in North Carolina and Georgia and this is heading towards Tampa this is the West coast of Florida and this is a flood prone area as it is these we have to really think about how to structurally deal with these things because everywhere is Florida now someone was saying we're all living in Florida at this point you know obviously it's more dangerous to be in Florida when it comes to hurricane seasons we have to all think about the devastation of climate change again and again the fact that there's a party that pretends it doesn't exist is I feel like we're in that movie like and we're about to see some really devastating things and so that you really need to wake up it's not just a climate disaster of the moment we have to think about it from a systemic way and how to deal with it and you know either not live in these places or find a way to live in them that keeps people safer but the these tropical alerts from the weather service but by the way the Trump administration wants to cut are the future in their project 2025 are disturbing to say the least and so our heart goes up to people there and at the same time we have to be able to plan for these things in a much better way going forward it's like we forget every single year that these are gonna happen in the getting worse so that's my fail my positive I think the family thinks God I think that's true we had a really wonderful weekend Claire's birthday and I issues five I know right I know we've known each other a long time yeah we just had such a lovely weekend not on the phones not on our you know not doing not doing things separately but as a group Amanda's brother and sister-in-law came in and their son and it's just really you guys have to get out like you have to get out with family and groups of people and in communities more it's something we should all try I thought about it a lot over the past couple of weeks like the idea of doing more stuff with with family or friends or whatever but it was a beautiful party it was fantastic she dressed as a princess Tiana in this case usually is Elsa or Anna but but it was really nice to see all these kids playing with each other it's just kids really play I was really watching my son's all play with his cousin Oscar and they just like play you know I mean like they don't need a lot of shit to do that they just need to run around so I agree with you I think it's really important to find your groups of people and get out of your head and and and you know it's a difficult time over the next 30 days with this election and so you need some everybody needs to calm the fuck down and kids keep you on going I mean let me ask you when you're around your kids don't you feel 61 again that's good that's good I also by the way everybody get your vaccines this is our anti RFK announcement I got both my COVID and and flu vaccine free whales out if you get a vaccine get them I didn't feel terrific all weekend but I didn't feel bad and so I urge you it's gonna be a tough season well that's an ad for vaccines I didn't feel terrible it's the back you don't feel good when you get back by the way back to me I'm doing this NAD treatment I'm gonna be so young and youthful what is that no what something that repairs your mitochondria it's basically what rich people do you're gonna live forever you're not gonna live forever no matter what you do Carmine you're gonna die anyway that's from moonstruck moonstruck yeah anyway that's my thing get your vaccines and hang out with your friends that's what I say hold on I got I drive the movie moonstruck my favorite moment in the movie the phone rings at two in the morning and she's gonna be a dick August this week someone goes who's dead who's dead she's so great anyway we want to hear from you send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind go to ny mag.com slash pivots in the question of the show or call eight five five five one pivot Scott that is the show we'll be back on Friday with more you're gonna be in LA till when I'll see you next week but you're there all week yeah I think I'll week I go back to New York did you do the thing in the writers room yet no not you I had a I show up with me just because everybody all right did you okay all right well we're very excited to hear that story I mean with a couple Hollywood executives from Netflix at the cabana here at the Beverly I come back below and I'm so fucking Hollywood right now cabana where your varnays where your varnays anyway read us out today's show was produced by Larry name and soy Marcus and Taylor Griffin or your time engineer this episode thanks also to Jupros and Mia Solario new shock for all his box meetings executive producer audio make sure you subscribe to the show where every listening podcast thanks for listening to pivot from your mag and box media you can subscribe to the magazine at ny mag.com slash pod where we got later this week for another break down of all things tech and business care have a great start to the week happy birthday Claire it's very exciting support for the show comes from Odo running a business is hard enough so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other introducing Odo it's the only business software you'll ever need it's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier CRM accounting inventory e-commerce more and the best part Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost that's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch so why not you try Odo for free at Odo.com that's O-D-O-O dot com support for the show comes from Odo running a business is hard enough so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other introducing Odo it's the only business software you'll ever need it's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier CRM accounting inventory e-commerce and more and the best part Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of 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