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Hello, and welcome to the Humanities Matter podcast by Braille. Today we're talking about critical storytelling, multilingual immigrants in the United States. I'm speaking with its two authors, Luis Pentone Herrera. Morning, Luis, how's it going?
Good morning. Thank you for having me. I'm doing well. How are you?
Great. And co-author Ethan Tren. Welcome, Ethan. Hey, thank you, Lay.
So first of all, can you share some background about the origins of this book? So I was, at that time, it was back in 2018, and I was teaching English as a second language in high school. I was a high school teacher at the time. And I remember I was talking to my students and just my experiences, right?
As a high school teacher. And then I was also a doctoral candidate at the time. And I was very much interested in my students' stories and the stories of immigrants in the U.S. And all the information that I could find, it seemed that it was people telling immigrant stories.
So I became very, very passionate about providing a space for immigrants to tell their own stories, using their own voices and perhaps even their own languages. And I started that journey in 2018, and then I reached out to two publishers at the time. So they didn't like the idea or it was not the right fit for them because it was fairly new concept, I think, at the time. So then I just left the idea there on my desktop for a while.
And then one day I was talking to Ethan. I'm like, Ethan, this is what's happening to me and the project and it's just there. And then I was at that point, I was a little bit demotivated because, you know, two rejections from two different publishers, but then Ethan joined forces with me and, you know, I'm very grateful. And then we started reaching out to looking for other potential publishers.
And then that's how we came across Brill Sense and their critical storytelling book series. And it was just a perfect fit. You know, when I was listening to you and I recall, you know, the raids memories that we had, you know, when we started the project together. So I'm so grateful that you invited me to join you and you know, work with you.
So yeah, so at that time I was teaching English to speaker of other languages in Georgia. And I teach English, actually, to adults, transnational and immigrant students in a college. And then I remember that when we were discussing a topic about the mountain part in the United States, and then the student is fresh their frustration. Because for somehow the textbook actually did not tap on, you know, other issues or, you know, other social issues that the student were encountering like racial discrimination, linguistic discrimination, gender inequality.
So usually the text will get not far out. I did not see those kind of issues. And then after we finished discussing about the topic of the mountain part in the United States. So the student came to me and asked me, Ethan, I didn't see myself in the textbook.
So I was really frustrated, but also inspired at the same time, because of that sentence. And I was thinking, what should I do? What can I do to bring the different voices of the students, especially the the immigrant students, transnational and immigrant students into a collection where the voices should be heard in recognizing that knowledge. And then thank you so much, you know, Louise, that, you know, bringing up the topic.
And then I feel like, yes, that is kind of a rape link that we can stop working together so that we can bring all of the voice, especially the monthly lingo immigrants in the United States together. Well, I'm so grateful this book finally came together and that it finally found a home such a special collection here. You organize this collection into poems and narratives. Can you talk about why you chose to divide the book into these two sections and what they tell us about the immigrant experience in the US.
When we were starting this project specifically for real sense under critical storytelling, we wanted to really create a space for different voices and we realized that some of the immigrants that we wanted to invite in some of the immigrants that might be interested in contributing to our edit volume. They may have never actually written academically speaking an essay or a chapter so, you know, narratives may have been perhaps too overwhelming for a first attempt, but also we realized that you know what some of the immigrants may also be poets and they might be interested in poetry. So I think it was, you know, for us, it was just a good opportunity to provide different ways for our contributors as immigrants in the US to share their voices whether it's essays, more academic writing styles and under narratives or poems, poetry. We wanted to really disseminate that the ways in which they could tell their stories.
We didn't want to force or emphasize a particular writing style. And that also, of course, we invited them to contribute using if they wanted, they could do only English or they could do their native language. And then we actually have some chapters, for example, one of the contributors in chapter five, she wrote her chapter in Spanish. And she's actually an English learner so we didn't want languages to be a problem for anyone if they were interested in contributing so chapter, I'm sorry, chapter six.
So she wrote her entire poem in Spanish and I was able to help her translate that into English so now she has her contribution as an English and Spanish at the same time so we just wanted to provide as much diversity as possible to to the contributors to share what they wanted to share their stories using what they felt it was more appropriate to them. Thank you so much for bringing that chapter. I want to give me some joy. So I want to add two things from what we just say.
So number one, the chapter about the poem and you know the poem was written in Spanish. So the person, the contributor actually was one of my students in the English class that I taught at a college. And it was really emotional for me when I would be able to invite her to contribute because what I think I share this with you Louise, that in one of the classes that I taught, and then we have an activity where, you know, all of the students wrote their poems and they performed in the native language and in the language and English intertwined with each other. And I really want to let them renegotiate the identities, especially in an English classroom where, you know, there's kind of a room where people say, hey, when you go to the English classroom, when you study, you know, English only classroom classroom sort of thing.
So I want to disrupt that kind of normalcy of learning English and seeing the word and, you know, viewing themselves as the whole human being and appreciate the home language and the culture. So it's very emotional at that time when my student, you know, express themselves in both the native language and English. And then the contributor of the chapter actually, you know, spoke confidently in front of the class and she was into tears and it came because she said to me and the whole class like she was a poet in her country, but when she came to the United States, she became a tutor. She felt like she was not validated at all because of her language, because of her identity, because of her look at all of things.
So I told her like, look, you are valued and you, you have so many things to contribute. And I said, like, look, the opportunity will come. And then, you know, because I came out and then we said like, I think like she will be a perfect fit. So I invited her to contribute to make the promise and make her feel like she she is valuable.
Let's put it that way. identity is value and is worth recognizing and honoring. So like Louis said, because most of the people when they think about publishing in academia is something very risky, dangerous, hierarchical. So we want to do something to disrupt that thinking.
We want to bring the voice of the people who has never been publishing in academia and we want to bring this as kind of disrupt the academy. So I think that is how we want to do and we divide into two sections, poems and narratives. And I think that theme of value is so interesting too because I feel like that's something that happens to immigrants in the US and elsewhere as well, is that someone was a doctor back in their home country or someone was the best at whatever. And then because you go to another place where English isn't your first language and you don't know the customs, then your whole identity is kind of thrown off base.
Yes, that is correct. And actually, your comment reminds me of chapter, I believe it was chapter 13 or 14. And actually, it's 18. So chapter 18, one of the contributors, he actually talks about that and how in his experience coming from the Dominican Republic, he remembered many, many doctors back in the Dominican Republic who came to the US and now that we're taxi drivers and he talks about their experiences and how that in a way motivated him to pursue higher education and to learn English and he's now pursuing a doctoral degree.
So, some of the stories here, I think there are different emotions within the stories because, of course, multi-lingual immigrants, we all have different experiences. And that's also another thing that we wanted to do in this edited volume was to show that really diversity of immigrant experiences is not just one or two stories that we have so many stories to tell. And some of the stories are a little bit sad, but I think some of them are happy. But all of them, you can find this resilience, this strength, and in all of the stories in certain parts, there's always a takeaway of, you know, I was able to overcome these challenges and I was able to do this and I was able to find inspiration in, you know, difficult situations like the one that you were describing on how, perhaps some doctors in Dominican Republic came to the US and had to become taxi drivers.
But for that particular contributor on chapter 18, he found strength and motivation in those stories. So, it's always good to hear different stories, different motivations because it gives you really a better understanding of the world through other people's lenses. So, talking more about some of those different identity stories, what's in a name? The poems and the narratives in this book deal with immigrant identities and experiences.
What do you want educators to take away from this edited collection? I would love to convey a message to the educators that each individual is unique and it's beautiful. And they have beautiful different stories to share with us. So, we need to be patient with them and find the beauty in the world, in the identity, in the language and everything.
I mean, the immigrants bring the uniqueness to the countries. You know, I don't think that, you know, we want to have to treat the student as kind of like, oh, if you come here, I teach you the language and then we are done. But I'm thinking about that, you know, we're building the relationship with the student. We're building the trust with the student.
We're building, you know, the community with the student. And how can we do that? I think we need to start to listen to their voice, to their story, and how can we think about reflecting the story critically, so that the student can make their own action for themselves and for the community that they are in. So, I think that is the main message that I want the educators to think about and find the different imaginative and creative ways to listen to your student story.
For me specifically, I truly believe that there's power in storytelling. And this is why we went forward with this topic of critical storytelling. And I don't think as a high school teacher, me having been taught, I taught in elementary, middle, high school, higher education. I don't think K through 12th and higher education are very much, they're not very welcoming yet to storytelling.
And when we think of storytelling, usually you don't associate storytelling in academics in the same sentence. I don't know why, but I'm hoping that our work here, even what we did with critical storytelling and other contributors in a way helps change that perspective. Because definitely when we think about immigrants and English learners and just language learners in general, storytelling is powerful. They can share their stories, they can be validated when they use their words, their experiences, what they learned.
So, we wanted to make sure that we provided something, even if it's just an additive volume, something perhaps that might seem tiny little at this point, but hopefully it will be something that we contribute to a growing trend of including storytelling in academia and in teaching. And that's why in our introduction in the preface, we actually talked directly to the educators and we encouraged them to use storytelling in their classrooms and then we shared examples of how they couldn't cooperate storytelling. Like for example, reading activities, writing, speaking, listening, self-reflection. And that's also something powerful about storytelling is that when you're telling your story as a storyteller, you're also able to reflect and learn from your experiences.
And there is a lot of power in remembering what you went through and what you overcame and the lessons learned. And speaking of storytelling, would you mind reading a section from the chapter each of you wrote and sharing what it means to you? I'm going to share here, this is the last paragraph of my chapter and my chapter is chapter 17 and is titled, My Lies Metamorphosis Becoming By Lengue. It has taken me all this time to come to the realization that becoming bilingual in the United States has been one of the most enriching experiences of my life.
It does not matter what anyone ever thought about me, how they treated me, or how they laughed at me. Their actions did not then my life, did not diminish my intelligence, did not make me any less than what I am. Becoming by lingo was my lies metamorphosis. I spent so much time trying to find perfection without realizing that all this time greatness lived within me.
So this last paragraph, it was very powerful for me when I was writing this chapter, because I was able to kind of go back into my journey of learning English as a second language here in the US. And I told just a very brief, you know, I shared very brief overview of my story. But in this final paragraph, I think it was my opportunity to, as I was writing it, I was reflecting on everything I went through and my experiences. And then I realized, you know what, it's really, it's been powerful for me, everything that I've gone through, made me who I am and helped me understand how I have grown through throughout the years.
So I just think that writing this final paragraph, in addition to being obviously to being also the end of the chapter for me, it was also, perhaps it also marked the end of a chapter for me in my life, just realizing how much I went through and that everything was worth it for me. So I'm going to read an excerpt from my chapter. And then there is a translation of it. We who everyone has only one, it's like you only have one mother.
We who, if you don't remember, you won't grow up as a human being. My translation for this poem, some is raw, rocky and smooth. I admit my witness in translating Vietnamese into English. I spent time fighting a good translation for each word.
I spent time thinking whether my translation successfully described what the author truly meant. I hesitated in this translation in my own language. I think I failed in this translation. I did not want to give an English person at first, but the readers, specifically Vietnamese Americans, we appreciate this raw attempt because it could have them trace lost identities of language and history.
In addition, translating is a political act. It is not just an linguistic translation. Instead, it is an expansion of a soul, memories, culture, and politics into each word. Translating is not a skill.
It is a wholeness of identity of one's life. Therefore, for the rest of this essay, I would not be tell-aside the way we who or any Vietnamese words because this is my claim as an act of resistance against the Western academic writing style I am trained to publish in. So I feel like this excerpt speaks a lot to me in terms of translating a word. I read the poem in Vietnamese on purpose because I want the listener of this podcast to know that you need to appreciate your language, your home language, and love the language, love your home language as much as I do because I'm feeling that our language describes the wholeness of our identity.
It represents us whenever we go, not in the United States or anywhere in the world. I'm feeling like translating is not a linguistic skill, but it is more about putting your soul, putting your memory, putting the political art into each word. Reading this excerpt gives me the power and the empowerment to disrupt the way that Western academic publication want me to write or to do. My work is to disrupt the Western way of writing and thinking.
I hope that the listener or the reader of this excerpt will share the same feeling. Thank you so much to you both, not only for sharing your work, but for sharing your journey with us as well. Our pleasure. Thank you very much for having us today and it was an opportunity to share our work here is very meaningful to us and to share the stories in some way, the stories and the voices of our contributors in the book as well.
Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much everyone for having us today. Luis Pentone Herrera and co-author Ethan Dintrin. They're the authors of Critical Storytelling Multilingual Immigrants in the United States.
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