If it's by unprecedented expulsion. Tennessee Republicans strip two black Democrats at their seats but decide to spare their white colleague after all three rallied on the Tennessee House floor for striped gun laws. Two of the so called Tennessee three will be here together in a moment. Plus taking on Trump a talk the only Republican presidential candidate was calling on Trump to drop out of the 2024 race after last week's historic indictment.
My one on one interview with ASA Hutchinson straight ahead. And Israel fires back during the holidays, launching airstrikes in Gaza and southern Lebanon and one of the most significant events since 2006. Moments ago Israel says a terror attack killed one and wounded several others in Tel Aviv. Welcome to MEET the PRESS now.
Happy to those celebrating. I'm Chuck Tyler Courtney in Washington. It is sad to say that the unprecedented party line votes to expell to Democratic lawmakers from Tennessee House of Representatives is a near perfect distillation of the current state of American politics. Polarization, feudalism, political theater and yes, an undercurrent of racism.
Vice President Kamala Harris stranger schedule and is currently on our way to Nashville to meet with Tennessee state legislators after late yesterday while protesters shouted for the gallery, the Republican super majority in the Tennessee state House voted removed two young black Democrats, Justin Jones and Justin Pierce for violating rules of decorum. They along with a third Democrat, Gloria Johnson led a gun reform protest on the House warsoft last week. It wasn't violation of house rules. They were immediately punished by being stripped of the petty signs by the way.
So there was an initial punishment. All of this happened was just days after a mass shooting at a national private school that killed six. Johnson, who was white, survived her vote and after the vote to remove her failed an emotional Johnson hug jumps we already been expelled and spoke directly to the dynamics or likely dynamics behind her survival. We are still three Tennessee.
Three Tennessee Black Hawk is called Jones's and Pearson's removal a quote miscarriage of justice. This is the greatest miscarriage of justice on this floor since African American members were first seated after Reconstruction and then after in the Jim Crow era. There is no accountability in this legislature. They are time and time again attacking our cities.
Representative Jones and Representative Pearson just so happen to represent the two most diverse cities in Tennessee, Nashville and Memphis. The Congressional Blackhawk has also condemned the expulsion and statement. President Biden called the expulsion shocking, undemocratic and without precedent. Sadly though, if you follow politics, you know a clash like this seems like it was inevitable because it isn't just that we're deeply divided.
It's Also compromised the ability to have serious debate. And it's largely been replaced by political theater because sometimes the system won't even allow for serious debate. In many places, especially in the south, the districts are so German that politicians only need to speak to their base. Just look at these numbers.
In Tennessee, Trump won the state, which is 60% of the vote. That's a significant means. It's a red state. Did you guys.
Republicans make up 75% of the state house. So Republicans are over index in the state house. And by the way, half of those Republicans didn't even face an opponent of any strike. Not independent, not a Democrat, not any.
And by the way, only four face an opponent where they were held under 6% of the vote. So they're not competitive. It's a similar story in some neighboring states. Missouri, Trump won 56% of vote.
GOP makes up 68% of the state house. It's a bigger percentage of those Republicans. 57% ran unopposed. No competition at all.
Arkansas, Trump won 62% of vote. It's a whopping 82% of the state house that is Republican. Of course, partisan gerrymander is a problem all across the country. Some of the bluest states also have even more shocking disparities.
Democrats make up an even larger percent of the state house when compared to their share of the statewide vote in California, in Massachusetts and Hawaii. And the political careers of Jones and Pearson, of course, are not over in many ways that Tennessee Republicans in the House probably just created. Two longtime political activists that will be in Tennessee politics for a very long time. Both of them could end up representing the same seat again.
They may get reappointed back to their positions. That's a unique dynamic that Tennessee has when it comes to special elections. But the dynamics of that at this moment are still there. They're there in Tennessee, and they're there across the country, and we didn't see them in Congress.
Whether it's Elon Omar or Marjorie Taylor, Greg, none of this is going away. Blaine Alexander's on the ground for us in Nashville right now. In Blaine, it's still sort of shell shocking what happened yesterday. And for me, the real shell shock was when it was so overt of a racial disparity in the decision on the expulsions.
What are you hearing on the ground? You know, when I spoke with the chairman of the Tennessee Black Caucus, he said that exact same thing. I asked him if he believed that race played the background. What we saw play out yesterday, he said unequivocally, yes.
He does believe that it did. And he said that it was just so egregiously. So that's why the caucus is really going to rally around its two former members and pot once again members should they be reappointed in the days to come. He said that one of their biggest concerns is even if they are reappointed by, you know, their local bodies, making sure that they aren't blocked from taking those seats if they are sent back to the state House.
But here's something that I want to point out. We heard from a Republican lawmaker, somebody who took one of those very close to watch votes who voted to expel the two members, Jones Pearson, but did not go to expel Representative Gloria Johnson. He explained it to our affiliate this way, essentially saying that he believed that what she had done was not as egregious. He said that she didn't take a bullhorn, didn't walk up to the podium and speak on the House floor.
Therefore, he said that he believed that she warranted being able to stay in the House while the other two didn't. So that's how he's defending his vote at least. Certainly Republicans were involved in the say that it only comes down to what they did on the House floor and there wasn't anything about race involved. What's notable about this check, I think, is the climate that he described, not just your intensity, but around the country.
And that's why the lawmakers that I spoke to today say they are so concerned about what sort of precedent does this set when you look at other estates around the country that could possibly try and follow a similar pattern. Well, Blaine, I'm curious. It looks quiet today. Is everybody taking a good Friday break?
We should expect these protests back next week. Absolutely. Expect them back next week. The capital is closed today.
There's no session because it is the Friday. But yes, it already called a number of calls for people to come back on Monday for some people that maybe even try to come from out of town to join them. The other thing that we're watching for very closely, Chuck, is that the Metro Council here in Nashville is going to hold the special meeting to vote on filling the absence that was left by Representative Jones. And already a number of them have said that they want to put him right back in that seat.
So it's possible he could be back in the seat that's on time Monday night. Ravenous morning talking to him right now. All right, Blaine Alexander on the ground for National Plane. Thank you.
I'm joined now by two of The Tennessee three, current State Representative Gloria Johnson, and now, perhaps just temporarily, former State Representative Justin Jones and Gloria Johnson, I'll start with you. I know you're a bit mobile right now. I get that. So let me ask this question this way.
Look, thinking back, was this an inevitable clash that was coming inside this House of Representatives? Yes, I believe that it was the fact that we, our voices are very often silenced on the floor. Our mics are cut. We are not called on.
We had no opportunity and were even gaveled down when we tried to acknowledge the protesters who were there, the moms and the toddlers and the teenagers who were there begging us to do something, begging us to do something and to take real action. And I talked to them and I listened to them that morning crying about the fear they had while dropping their kids off at school. So we had, we felt compelled in our hearts, all of us, to speak. Is there something about the rules in the Tennessee House that make it almost easier to get stepped on the way you and the Tennessee three have been stepped on here?
Well, it's the super majority of the fact that they really don't even have to allow us to talk and they are able to pass any rules. And so this year they passed the rule that we only have five minutes that we can debate. And then of that five minutes, if I ask a question that takes 30 seconds, they might read the bill or take up the rest of the four and a half minutes just by reading the bill or talking nonsense. And.
And so we are being silenced so often on incredibly important legislation and incredibly important discussions like Gun sense. It's just horrifying that we are there. We represent 70,000 people each in our districts and we are there to lift their voices and we're not given the opportunity. Justin Jones, members of the Tennessee Black Caucus say you've been that they have that since you took office that they have been fielding complaints about you being mistreated.
You tell me, how have you, how have you felt serving from day one and have you been essentially made to feel unwelcome? Yeah, I think the Tennessee legislature, toxic work environment for anyone who does not fit the image they want to portray. You know, being a young Black lawmaker, being 27 years old and someone who is outspoken for my district, that's the reason I was elected from day one. You know, I was told, I think someone said it yesterday during our fake trial.
They said, you didn't become one of us. And I take pride in that. Is that what we are seeing is body that is so Drunk with power. But not only were they silencing us, but they're silencing the 70,000 people we represent.
They're silencing that those young people can't even vote, Many of them who we want to live. We want to be free from this terror of mass shootings. Let's ban assault weapons. What do the Republicans majority do?
They assault democracy. And so what we're dealing with is a body that is dealing the traffics and the rhetoric of racism and that traffics and these anti democracy attacks that harm us all. Let me ask a more basic question about so the shooting happens. You're a state representative here, Justin, and you're trying to have a conversation about an assault weapon ban.
And you probably knew that the numbers were the numbers. But explain to me how they stifled the debate right where you couldn't even sort of. All right, can we at least have a debate to you talk about the merits. I'll talk about the merits.
I mean, we are not a deliberative body. We are a democratic body. And so even in some of basic, welcoming, honoring portion of our agenda, we want to welcome those who are in the galleys, young people who work with thousands who show up to protest. That's what I wanted to do.
That was cut off. Our microphones were cut off. You know, when I went outside, standing inside the other protesters, I came back inside my machine to press my vote as a lawmaker was cut off by speaker who still made it announced, no, he can't do that anymore, though. That I never heard that before.
Was that a rule? Did you know about this rule before then? No, this has never been forced. Members go to the snack, when they go to bathroom, come in and out.
I've never seen a voting machine turned off. And so, I mean, they do everything in their power to silence debate because they don't want to take accountability. And so you know what we saw on committee? We're Gallagher down, and it's about so many issues.
But this is the most grotesque test because I represented a part of Nashville and our committee's grieving, our committee's mourning. There's trauma here from this mass shooting that six precious lives were taken. And we're not even allowed to express the outrage, the hurt, the grievances of our community and the call for action. But instead, we just offer moments of silence.
That's all they allowed us to do and pray. Hey, Justin. I'm sitting here, yo. A lot of people say, well, if you really want to do something about problem, run for office.
Well, that's what you've done. You ran for office, you won office. And what you're saying to me is you're not allowed to express your opinion or your district's opinion in office, in the body you are elected to be in. Exactly.
That is, that is how extreme anti democracy forces have become, particularly here in state like Tennessee where they feel like because of gerrymander maps and voter suppression that they're in power but they don't represent interests of majority of Tennesseans. And so what they do is they try and limit discussion, they try and limit what we can advocate for because they're afraid that will hold up a mirror to their false power. And so I mean I ran for office as someone who spent 10 years with me organizing. I was one of the youngest lawmakers trying to represent my generation.
And they, and they told me that, you know, basically I'm uppity that you know that you need to humble yourself as I'm not coming here to intercom here as a legislator, a colleague and equal. Boy, that's a lot of, a lot of African Americans of another generation would describe that way in the 1960s. Justin, is it just speaking out all your uppity or you're this or you're that? Let me ask you this.
You were as you said, you're an activist. You were well known to folks in that Nashville, in Nashville during the 20s. Do you think your activism is why you were specifically targeted for expulsion? The fact that you were a known activist before you even got into office?
Definitely. I mean that is what got me into office was the community knew I was a fighter, that I would speak up. But that is what they're getting to my majority. They are used to people who will bow down to them.
There's only three of us women that will that day. Myself, Representative Johnson, Anderson Pierce and we the ones who went to that well, because we're sick and tired of being sick and tired. Others could join, but we stood up because this has gone on for far too long and we could not be silent anymore. And so the body is afraid of voices, of dissent, of voices, opposition.
They're used to just having their way. They call themselves the majority us by no, we're not that. We are the check on power. We are the dissenting voice like the divorce of moral dissent.
And we are upholding our oath to state constitution to challenge any decision on all that's injurious to the people. That's what we were doing that day. And remember the founders were always about Trying to protect minority rights in a deliberative body, and this is the case with the NC House, is not doing that. Gloria, you were very clear that you believe race was the only reason why you're still currently a member of the State House.
Have you heard from any of these Republican members that. I'm just curious behind the scenes that have said, now maybe we went too far. Gosh, how do we get to here? Is there any regret that anybody's expressing?
Not from any elected members. I've heard it from Republicans back home, you know, but. But I. I sort of heard, you know, oh, well, they didn't show enough contrition or something like that.
But. But I didn't either. But I'm a white woman. Yeah.
And I think, you know, the younger generation, they're so passionate about what they're doing, and they're so smart and just prepared for this moment. And I think that's frightening to some of the older folks and certainly to the conservative folks. And I just say we should embrace it because these. These two young men's voices are so powerful and so important to the Tennessee legislature.
We've got to do everything we can to get them back. Is there anything you can do about Durian, Gloria? I mean, it's such a. It's a massive problem that I don't know if an individual state can do anything about it unless they choose to prioritize competition.
Well, actually, we're about to have a lawsuit about our maps, and we're pretty sure we're gonna win it. Yeah. So looking forward to that coming up. I mean, they did.
They did draw me out of our district. Out of my district, just my block. They drew out of my precinct. So hopefully we're going to get some comeuppance here pretty soon.
And, Justin, it appears. And again, people outside of Tennessee may not realize that they can. You can get reappointed back to the seat before the special election. A couple of things.
Will you accept the appointment? And if you do, do you expect to be seated and you plan to file a lawsuit anyway? Because I do think there's some questions about the constitutionality of all this. Yes, I definitely know the honor to continue to fight for my district, because what's happening now is there are 70,000 people in one of the most diverse districts in Tennessee that don't have a voice on Capitol hill in District 52 because of the extreme retaliation of this Republican student majority.
And so, you know, I look forward to, you know, if the council would reappoint me, but no, matter what. I know there's a special election as we'll continue to organize, continue to speak up inside the chamber. We'll always stand with people. I think that, you know, the next steps are about being seated, are really the hand of the speaker who, who has a rationale that he's not a fan of democracy.
And so we'll see if, you know, if I am reappointed, if I, you know, run this election, if the speaker will appoint me. But there's a case, the Supreme Court, Kate, which William Bonley refuses to see him, a young man in the civil rights movement, and he took it all with the Supreme Court and won. Yep. No, you have.
It's an important history lesson. It's a reminder. History doesn't always for people, it sure rhymes. Gloria Johnson, Justice Justin Jones, thank you both for coming on and sharing your perspective with us.
Appreciate it. Thank you so much. National Republicans have been largely silent on the moves by the Tennessee Republican legislature. Let's talk Asa Hutchinson about that and a whole lot more.
He's, of course, the former governor of Arkansas and soon to be officially announced candidate for president. Plus, China imposes some new sanctions on the United States just as another bipartisan lawmakers defies Beijing's warnings and prepares to meet with the tiny Taiwanese president, this time in Taiwan. That said, welcome back. While former President Trump's Manhattan indictment sucked up just about all of the air, the 2024 presidential primary narrative this week, he is, of course, not the only candidate on the campaign trail.
In fact, the 2024 field actually got bigger this week. Former Arkansas governor Ace Hutchinson became the latest candidate to essentially announce that he'll be announcing he's going to be a candidate in officially on April 18. Hutchinson spent two terms as the governor of Arkansas, and before that he served in the Bush administration. He's the undersecretary of Homeland security, head of the DA before that, he was a member of Congress.
Before that, he was a U.S. attorney in Arkansas. He's one of the deepest resumes of anybody running for president. And Governor Hutchinson joins me now.
Governor's good to see. Good to be with you, Chuck. Thanks for the opportunity. It's a different backdrop.
Is that your picture backdrop already? No, this is a Bentonville, Arkansas background. Oh, it's been Arkansas. Okay.
That's what it is. It's not that normal Little Rock background. Let me start with what's happening with your neighbors there to the east in Tennessee. Good luck or bad luck for the Republican Party right now?
Well, I would one, I'm not going to get in and judge what's happening in the state legislature in Tennessee. We have a general assembly in Arkansas. While I was governor, you know, they governed their own conduct. They had to make tough decisions.
And so that's a legislative matter, and that's in Tennessee. But from the bigger picture, though, it just reflects that it's really important that we try to. To bridge gaps, to work together. I mean, here you've got a lot of emotion coming out of the Nashville school shooting, which was such a tragedy.
There's emotion there. You've got a legislative session going on. I know that whenever we had the George Floyd protest in Arkansas and across the nation, there was. It turned to violence.
So we stopped the violence, and I brought the protest leaders in, put them on a task force with some law enforcement and said, let's see if we can figure out some things together. And it was a very productive thing that led to action. So I think listening to each other is critically important and trying to find common ground where we can. That's, to me, how you try to get over this divide.
So it sounds like what you think is the Tennessee leadership went too far and expelling these members for. I mean, again, they're advocating whatever you think of their position. They're caring about people who got hurt and died. Like, that's what makes this seem so callous, Governor, is that, you know, how dare you have an emotional outburst reacting to somebody who died.
You know, it's not. It's inhumane. Well, I haven't seen the videotapes. I haven't seen the protests and how that might have interrupted the decorum or violated the rules of the Senate.
So I just can't judge that. Why not? I mean, you're running the president, United States Governor. I understand if you're still going to Arkansas, and I get it, you know, okay, that's their character.
You're running to be leader of the entire Republican Party. You're running to set a tone. And look, I. I commend you for the tone.
You. You said look, and you're right. You didn't have the same issues that other governors had because you've not been too realistic. You don't look at the other side and think, well, I'm gon mute them.
But that's my point here. You're also not addressing the issue either. You kind of want to have to sit back. Why?
Well, because I don't think that, you know, every national leader needs to comment on what's happening in Tennessee. You know, if. If it becomes a national issue and concern. Yes.
But I view this as something that is a Tennessee legislative issue. It's obviously a very serious thing. Anytime you take the elected representative away from the people who voted for them, it's a most serious consequence that you can have. I just can't judge right now.
If I had to, I'll look at all the tapes and at the right time I might make a judgment on it. But I think it's inappropriate for me to second guess what happened in Tennessee at this point. Look, one of the ways that we frame this and is the fact that this felt sadly inevitable. It happened to be Tennessee.
But I think we know we've got this partisan gap that has gotten widened and wider and a lot of it has to do with your Mandarin. Your state is one of the examples. You know, Trump won the state with 62 of the vote. I believe you won with about 63, 64.
Basically the state is a 65, 35 split. Okay. Generally, give or take, the state House is 82% Republican. Half of them don't even get an opponent.
Do you think this has gone too far? That it's, it's, we're getting legislatures that are essentially over indexed to one party and therefore not accountable to people. I would agree with you on the point that we've tried to protect incumbents to a great extent. We tried to make red districts more red, blue districts more blue.
Both sides have played that game because, and here's the challenge that everybody would rather worry about the general election and having a safe run there versus having a contest in the primary. And so you're trying to make it more red. And then that, that really changes your ability to work together because you're constantly appealing more to the base versus worrying about getting votes in the general election that impacts us nationally. I think from a Republican standpoint, we need to have a nominee in 2024 that can appeal to independents and suburban voters who are going to win.
So there's some national application there. Look, you're actually. That's exactly. I believe, for instance, that the party's disconnect on abortion has to do with the fact that most of the people making this decision don't have to don' challenge from the other side.
There's only one point of view. If you only worry about Republican primary, it's how pro life are you? Right. And you're not even speaking to the middle.
Do you think that that has why it looks like Republicans look so out of touch on this issue? Well, I think the abortion Question is really a matter of conviction and, and sincere beliefs on both sides. And so that's sometimes hard to bridge. Divide, naturally.
But whenever you look at other issues, sure, the first requirement is listen, be together, hold your principles. But there's always some common ground that you can try to find. And, and so we need to do more of that versus less. But the pro life issue is something that, that it's going to take more time to, you know, change from the strong pro life position that the Republicans have.
It's sincerely held by myself and others. And that gets me to something here. A politician is often fond of saying, I don't pay attention to the polls on one hand. On the other hand, you are responsible to what the people want.
Abortion is a perfect example. You have a 60 to 65 majority that wants essentially Roe v. Wade, some form of that. It's only 36 of all Republicans.
If you're president, United States, how responsive do you think you should be to what 65 of the country wants versus maybe what 65 of your own party wants? Well, we all do study polls and it is a relevant conversation because it helps you to guide us to what Americans are thinking. But you know, on this issue, you know, you come at it from different points of view and it's just going to take time for our country to sort through. Over the last 40 years, our country has become more pro life because of education, because of science.
You know, the debate now has centered on really two things. One, the Supreme Court said it's up to the states and our states. There you've got blue states that have one viewpoint and red states that have a different, more conservative viewpoint on the unborn child issue and the protections there. The other one is, are the exceptions.
These are going to be ongoing debates within the framework of what the Supreme Court has given us, that it's up to the states. And there's some debate about whether you all have a national standard. I believe that the states is what we fought for for years. They ought to come back to them.
I think that's helpful for our states to be able to make that determination, even though they might be different. It reflects the will of the people on the most serious health care issues. Governor, there's a lot to talk about for this campaign. One of the things about you I know is you're not afraid to say yes and talk about these issues on the.
I look forward to covering your campaign, sir. And good luck to be safe on the track, will ya? All right, thank you, Jeff. Good to be with you.
Up next, as both parties set their sights on 2024 and President Biden gears up for an official re election campaign. At some point, new polls show more than half the Democrats would prefer somebody else to get the money than Joe Biden. Panelist next. You're WATCHING THE press.
Welcome back. Vice President Kamala Harris on our way to the state House of national Tennessee meeting with Democratic lawmakers the day after two state representatives were felt from the chamber by the Republicans for a majority. Join me now. Eugene Scott, Senior Politics Report.
Axios Jsaki, former White House press secretary, hosted Inside with Jen Psaki Sunday night msnbc. Daniel Plucketta, the senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Eugene, this story is I'm something Governor Hudson said. It's a story that is about Tennessee or about something bigger?
It's about something bigger, which is why last night the chair of the Congressional Black Caucus, Stephen Horseford, who's from Nevada, had a meeting with the cbc, which is people outside of Tennessee and actually black lawmakers from states across the country to figure out what they are going to do because there's real fear that this is not going to end in Tennessee. And one of the things that Horsford did today was send a letter to Mayor Garden to see if some Civil Rights act violations were violated. So this is way bigger than Tennessee. Danny, the premise I started with at the opposite, yes, this happened in Tennessee.
This feels like this has been something that was going to happen somewhere in these state houses that we're getting for some of the state legislatures are suddenly more relevant because they've had some hot button issues, particularly abortion and guns. Gerrymandering is more extreme at the state House level. It was Tennessee, some kind of piece of inorganic California in the reverse with the way it is. Or you see something else here?
No, it's not that I see something else, but I do see something bigger going on. I'm not sure I see the exact same thing that you see. We've become a country where you instead of doing what you should do, you do what you can do. Should they have done this?
They're within their rights. They had a vote. It was a Democratic vote. It was done properly.
They expelled them. Should they have done that? I don't think so. Alvin Bragg, should he have brought those charges against Donald Trump?
Well, he could and he did. And he did it within his rights. Should he have done it? I'm not sure.
We've become a country that no longer talks about whether choices are the right choices to make. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. And that goes for Republicans, it goes for Democrats. It goes for me.
It goes for all of us. It is something we were talking about. It does feel like that. Nobody ever thinks, let me.
I can do this. Should I pull back? Should I take a breath? What do you think?
What do you think this means? I mean, I think they're very different circumstances. Targeting a district attorney who's never seen hundreds of threats and is just carrying out justice, which, by the way, is an obligation, is very different from voting to expel legislators who are elected by other people. But I will say, on the point of, like, how do you decide what to do and what not to do?
I mean, Republicans in Tennessee just elevated these two state legislators, who, by the way, happen to be incredibly passionate, powerful, and are now on the national scene talking about gun violence and the threats to children. That is not what they intended. So in a crazy way, as horrible as what happened yesterday was, it has backfired and has now elevated an issue that they didn't want to be talking about. The Republicans expelled them.
You know, it does feel this. This comes to this larger question that I've also had, which is it's just been a. It's not good for the Republican brand. This is not.
It doesn't matter. And especially when the outcome was they ousted the two black lawmakers and they didn't. I. That was.
You're like, no, they didn't. Right. It was one of those. You're like, really?
I don't know how one could look at this and think that this will expand your party with, of course, obviously with black people, but with the young voters. The kids were there hoping that the action that these lawmakers would take would be actually about gun violence. You know, I don't know what the thought behind this was that made them think that this would be a winsome approach to this. Well, this is what I wonder, Danny, is that.
And this is the other concern I have is that when you cocoon yourself, whether it's be the gerrymandering process, right. You cocoon yourself from competition. It's the information ecosystem you need that they don't even realize how bad this might look to the broader picture here. You say something that I was just talking about on our podcast because there was a poll that came out last week in the Wall Street Journal that showed these vast drops off in patriotism and wanting to have children in community service and all these things.
The only thing that really went up was the importance of money. And. But the poll itself was Flawed. But one of reasons we were talking about it is because this is a reflection of how divided things are in this country.
The perception though of division is really mostly among us other people. Whether it's black Americans or it's Hispanic Americans or it's non college educated white people, they actually, they actually don't feel strongly one way or the other. But none of us meet anybody different. These folks in Tennessee, they're not meeting anybody different.
They don't see anybody different to talk to. They should have talked to the people who are demonstrating for sure. But their constituents see this as a battle to the death. This is, this is the problem for all of us.
And it's not a Republican problem or a Democrat problem. It's an American problem. It's something we all need to figure out. Because if you think you're cocoon and nobody's going to judge you for it, you're right.
But of course that's not how it's going to work out. Now this is where there. And I don't know how to do this, but I wish we could prioritize competition when it comes to drawing lots that you take and say you can't use the average of the statewide polls so that because if you don't prioritize competition, then there's a few thousand voting now it's like outlawed in the state of Idaho. Yeah, exactly.
I mean, that's why we're only talking about how many competitive races every year. I saw that the CoCo reported this beautiful analysis about how from 1999, basically last 25 years it's been cut in half and we're less gerrymandered there today than we had been 10 years ago. Right. And it takes away the incentive of working together on things because working together on things has become kind of a dirty term.
Compromise is dirty. Compromising. Yeah. I actually think in some ways you can.
But not a legislator. Not a legislator. You can't win Twitter. Right.
You may not be able to win a primary. That's also a problem. But also we do talk a lot more about where. And I'm not talking about Tennessee, I'm talking about in general.
I mean, Biden passed 80. There were 81 bipartisan bills his first year in office. Right. That's actually the only way you get anything done in Congress is if you can the perfect be the enemy of the good.
But that's not an easy way to run in a primary. It's not an easy way to win a competitive primary. And that's a part of the system that is not who shows up to vote anymore, of course. Well, and this is the one you now want to pick off something else because this is if you were to.
The other huge story the week was Wisconsin result. The numbers that are shocking to me, that should really sober up some Republican strategies. One is Dane County. Madison is the second largest city in the state.
Milwaukee county is the large county. The largest city. Dane county produced more voters than Milwaukee county did. Here's the second fact.
I vote too for you, Eugene. The Republican or the conservative candidate? Dane county got 200,000 more votes than the last successful conservative Supreme Court candidate in Wisconsin about three years earlier. They had a massive survey of young voters.
They all voted one way. And if this keeps going public, a huge problem. Yeah, indeed. I mean, we've seen this in, you know, the last midterm election, the last presidential election.
So it's not like Republicans haven't noticed a trend. They just haven't gotten behind just how fast this trend is moving away from them. And when you put something like abortion rights on the ballot and propose very strict restrictions on it, that is motivating to a lot of young people who fear that their rights can be, you know, eradicated. When you look at the policy, obvious that they've got a Republican move on this, but is the infrastructure, the conservative movement, so tied into the pro life movement that they don't have it out of this box yet?
I don't know the answer to that, Chuck. I honestly don't. I think that the Republican Party has had a very hard time absorbing the lessons of the last six years. And if that continues to be the case, the people are going to explain to them what that results are.
And that's. Look, that's what we saw in Wisconsin. That's what we saw in Wisconsin. And you know, you don't have to give up your convictions.
That's the thing. And that's why I listen to Governor Hashishan. I was like, you don't have to give up your convictions, but you do actually have to to compromise. You have to understand that there are views on the other side.
And you have to work towards explaining. You cannot simply judge. Not on one side or the other. I was gonna say the mechanics of.
Because I know these numbers are probably in your head somewhere. The early vote numbers were also a warning to Republicans because that was such a big success story in an election that the Democrats were supposed to do so poorly in. And this was again, a success story for them in this election. Republicans haven't quite figured out how to do that.
And this is something that your friend today I would love. But there is this larger issue that as Trump has remade the party into a working class party and sort of lost the college educated crowd, he has made it impossible for conservatives to win it off your election. Yeah. And it's a fascinating problem.
Wisconsin has been round zero this example of the last years. Again, like I said, some of your data nerd friends say that. All right, Eugene, Danny, thank you all. Thank you for giving me the breakaway.
That's breaking news and television. Israeli police are now going one person kill, several wounded. While the government calling a terror attack. The powers of Israel have launched air strikes in Lebanon and Gaza.
It's a holiday weekend. Watch me. Welcome back. Tensions in the Middle east sadly show no sign of easing even during this important holiday weekend.
Just in the last hour, Israel's foreign Ministry says one person was killed and several others were injured for vehicle hit several pedestrians in Tel Aviv. The government is calling in a terror attack. All of this comes after Israel launched retal retaliatory strikes today on Gaza as well as on Lebanon. That is the biggest airstrike on Lebanon from Israel in 17 years.
Raf Sanchez is on the ground in Jerusalem now. And I guess we should be thankful that this happened in Tel Aviv now, Jerusalem or how, because I know everybody's been on a nice edge on Jerusalem right now as well. Yeah, Chuck. I mean, from the Israeli's perspective, this is just extraordinarily grim wherever it's happening.
This attack in Tel Aviv happened on the promenade along the beach there. It's a popular place for both Israelis and tourists to walk, especially after the sun goes down. And Israeli police are now saying that all the victims of this attack in Tel Aviv were tourists. It appears that the attacker rammed his car into the promenade.
He was then shot and killed by Israeli police officers. And check, this all comes just a couple of hours after two Israeli sisters were killed in an ambush in the occupied West Bank. Their mother was also shot. She is in critical condition in the hospital tonight.
She is fighting for her life. Life. And Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu making kind of unusual visit to the scene of that attack, warning Israel that this country's enemies are once again testing it this weekend. How do you see a presence, extra presence of security given?
I mean, we know that there was some concern that tensions could actually rise with Passover and Ramadan and Easter all converging. Yeah, Jack, I think what we've seen over the course of the day here is the violence shifting from kind of the Macro, you asked me last night what we were really worried about was another war between Israel and Hezbollah upon the Lebanese border. That situation does appear to have quieted down over the course of the day. It seems that both the Israelis and the Palestinian militants in Lebanon feel like they kind of made their points and that they can back down.
What we are now seeing is this wave of attacks, attacks inside Israel and in the occupied West Bank. And this is a cycle that just nobody has any good answers to, including Netanyahu and his far right government, which I were elected on a promise to restore security, to be really tough on the Palestinians. And aside from just the pure horror of the attacks, they have a major political problem now that they really do not seem to have any solutions to. These wave of attacks that have been continuing not just in the last 24 hours, but over previous weeks.
Part of this is that there really isn't a leadership on the Palestinian side that is able to stop these things. Correct. Isn't that the concern? Yeah, absolutely.
So the Palestinians deeply divided in the occupied west bank, there's the Palestinian Authority, which is funded, propped up by the United States, but led by this aging leader. It is an organization with really very little credibility among the Palestinian people. And then of course, in Gaza you have Hamas Chuck, Raf Sanchez on the ground in Jerusalem. Raf, please stay safe for the entire crew there and enjoy the Hollywood as best you can.
Still to come, bipartisan support of Taiwan is on full display this week even as US China tension spiral spoke to one of the aslammakers who met with the president of Taiwan about what's next for relation to Beijing that interviews. Thank you. Watching the press. Welcome back.
And what might be described actually as a pretty tempted response by the Chinese. They announced that they're going to slap a few sanctions on two US Institutions they're sanctioning the Reagan Presidential Library and the Hudson Institute because they play the role of hosting and facilitating Speaker Kevin Carpe meeting time as president earlier this week. Course action is largely a symbolic move and actually may be kind of toothless here and maybe their way of trying to de escalate. Earlier though, I spoke with Democrat Congressman Sepul, who's from Massachusetts, he was a part of that meeting in California.
And I began by asking him if this week's meeting was the beginning of preparing for a wartime alliance with Taiwan. Frankly, the first thing to understand is that what happened yesterday is not unusual at all. We have regular meetings with our Taiwanese counterparts. President Tsai has been to the United States I think half a dozen times since she's been in office.
And of course, we talk to other allies in the western Pacific, all around the globe on a regular basis. What's really unusual and different here is the fact that the Chinese Communist Party is trying to threaten and intimidate not only Taiwan's officials, but American officials as well for just conducting this routine to diplomacy. I understand, I get that on one hand. But look, tensions are pretty high and these meetings are happening simultaneous with the commercial delegation that's on the island right now.
I think we'll be meeting with President Tsai when she gets back to the island. What message should China and the Chinese Communist Party take away from these events? The Chinese Communist Party needs to understand their alliance is strong and it's getting stronger. And of course, it's getting even stronger, largely in response to the Chinese Communist Party's threats.
Tensions are high because Xi Jinping addressed the nation, addressed his nation and said that he intends to invade Taiwan. That's why tensions are high. It's not anything that we're doing, but in response to that, we're showing that our alliance with Taiwan is strong. We're shoring up our alliances with other allies in the western Pacific.
You just see a major agreement with the Philippines ushered in by the Biden administration. So we're standing firm, standing strong, and making it clear to China and the Chinese Communist Party they're not just going to roll over Taiwan as they seem to intend to do. It seems militarily we're prepared to defend Taiwan, and we can argue about whether we have everything we need today to defend Taiwan, but just the different actions that there is a willingness and an urgency to be prepared if this became a hot war. But it seems the bigger vulnerability, and sound like President Cybole's, the bigger vulnerability is essentially cyber influence, if you will.
You know, almost hacking, you know, misinformation and undue influence in their politics that maybe gets a more Chinese Communist Party friendly government. What can the US do about that Was a great question. And just to be clear, all the things that we're doing, whether strengthen economic partnerships or building up the military deterrent on the island of Taiwan, it's all to prevent war. It's all to deter war.
And we talked about how need to accelerate weapons deliveries to Taiwan. That's something President Tsai asked us to do in the meeting. But we spent even more time talking about strengthening our economic partnership. She raised the possibility of doing a trade deal with Taiwan so that our economies have rare exchanges.
And she said that having those solid partnerships both between the United States and Taiwan and also between Taiwan and other countries or allies of ours in the western Pacific. That is an economic deterrent to China's aggression as well. How concerned, though, is President Tsai about the fact that their biggest economic export, arguably these computer chips, is an industry we're trying to build here in this country, essentially just in case we lose Taiwan as a partner? Well, that's a good question.
I think that she sees this as a good partnership. Taiwan's not moving all productions in the United States, not even close. But they already have a production facility outside of Beijing. So why would they have a production facility outside of Beijing and not will have one in the United States?
She thinks that's an important strategic partnership that she should have, and we obviously agree. How does she do the war in Ukraine and how it impacts her in Taiwan? I think all eyes are on the war in Ukraine and the lessons that we need to take for that from, from war in Ukraine to the, to the Pacific. I think one of the most important things to recognize is the strength of our allies and the fact that so many allies have come together to support Ukraine.
That's why we're strengthening those allies, those partnerships in the western Pacific. But another important lesson to take away as well as this war is going for us in Ukraine, is it ultimately determines, failed. We're at war today because we were not successful at deterring Putin from invading. And that's something we don't want to repeat in the western Pacific.
So that's why it's so important we do this work today. We don't want to strong alliance to come together after China invades Taiwan. We want it to be very clear to Xi Jinping, the Chinese Communist Party, that that alliance exists today and that's why they shouldn't invade. What, what did she, what was her take on what public opinion is on Taiwan between full independence, relationship with Beijing or something else?
Well, one of the interesting points that, that she's made, I heard her make this point when I was in Taiwan leading a delegation there in October, is that the Hong Kong situation really changes everything for the, for the Taiwanese people because for a long time they believe that they could seek some accommodation with China. Perhaps one country, two systems, exactly what they promised Hong Kong. But of course, we've seen the reality of that for Hong Kong, it's one system, one system, one, one control, absolute control from Beijing. So that I think, really made the Taiwanese people, and certainly many of Taiwan's leaders say that's not going to work.
And we're gonna have prevent China from actually taking over. I want to ask you a quick question about Afghanistan. There's more after action reports that Congress wants to dig into. The White House has released something.
We expect something from the Pentagon today as well. I'll be honest. I read the White House report and it had a lot of President Trump in it, meaning they were essentially saying, look, we know that the withdrawal itself looked chaotic, but part of that reason was our hands were tied by all these agreements. Is that the right tone and attitude to take?
Is that fair? It comes across defensive. Maybe those are the facts. What say you?
Well, look, it's not wrong that Trump did a lot of bad things that set our Afghanistan policy in a terrible direction. But there are a lot of bad things Trump did that the Biden administration wasted no time undoing. So I'm not sure it's entirely fair to say that our hands were permanently tied. Were they tied?
Yes. But could we have undone them? I think we could have. I saw the New York Times headline that just said that one of the conclusions is that we should have started the evacuation earlier.
That's something I was asking the administration to do for months, both behind the scenes and in public. I hope we learned some lessons from that mistake. Congressman Sepulpel, Democratic messages again. Thank you.
Appreciate it. And that does it for us this hour. I'll be back Monday with more. We'll be back Monday with more depressing.
Hey, it's Kate Snow, NBC News anchor and host of the Drink. This month, Demi Lovato is my guest. The global superstar tells me that she is the happiest she's ever been right now. But getting there, it wasn't simple.
Demi opens up about starting in Hollywood young and why she now thinks she may have started too soon. She talks about recovery, her new marriage and the deeply personal reason behind her new cookbook. The Drink is always about the journey to the top. And this was an honest conversation about what that takes.
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