Mustafa Suleyman — AI is hacking our empathy circuits

<p>Welcome to Exponential View, the show where I explore how exponential technologies such as AI are reshaping our future. I've been studying AI and exponential technologies at the frontier for over ten years.</p><p>Each week, I share some of my analysis or speak with an expert guest to make light of a particular topic.</p><p>To keep up with the Exponential transition, subscribe to this channel or to my newsletter: <a href="https://www.exponentialview.co/">https://www.exponentialview.co/</a></p><p>-----</p><p>A week <a href="https://www.exponentialview.co/p/moltbook-is-the-most-important-place-on-the-internet" target="_blank">before OpenClaw exploded</a>, I recorded a prescient conversation with Mustafa Suleyman, CEO of Microsoft AI and co-founder of DeepMind. We talked about what happens when AI starts to seem conscious – even if it isn’t. Today, you get to hear our conversation.</p><p>Mustafa has been sounding the alarm about what he calls “seemingly conscious AI” and the risk of <strong>collective AI psychosis </strong>for a long time. We discussed this idea of the “fourth class of being” – neither human, tool, nor nature – that AI is becoming and all it brings with it.</p><p><strong>Skip to the best bits:</strong></p><p>(03:38) Why consciousness means the ability to suffer</p><p>(06:52) "Your empathy circuits are being hacked"</p><p>(07:23) Consciousness as the basis of rights</p><p>(10:47) A fourth class of being</p><p>(13:41) Why market forces push toward seemingly conscious AI</p><p>(20:56) What AI should never be allowed to say</p><p>(25:06) The proliferation problem with open-source chatbots</p><p>(29:09) Why we need well-paid civil servants</p><p>(30:17) Where should we draw the line with AI?</p><p>(37:48) The counterintuitive case for going faster</p><p>(42:00) The vibe coding dopamine hit</p><p>(47:09) Social intelligence as the next AI frontier</p><p>(48:50) The case for humanist super intelligence</p><p>-----</p><p><strong>Where to find Mustafa:</strong></p><p>- X (Twitter): <a href="https://x.com/mustafasuleyman">https://x.com/mustafasuleyman</a></p><p>- LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/mustafa-suleyman/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/mustafa-suleyman/</a></p><p>- Personal Website: <a href="https://mustafa-suleyman.ai/">https://mustafa-suleyman.ai/</a></p><p><strong>Where to find me:</strong></p><p>- Substack: <a href="https://www.exponentialview.co/">https://www.exponentialview.co/</a></p><p>- Website: <a href="https://www.azeemazhar.com/">https://www.azeemazhar.com/</a></p><p>- LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/azhar">https://www.linkedin.com/in/azhar</a></p><p>- Twitter/X: <a href="https://x.com/azeem">https://x.com/azeem</a></p><p>Produced by supermix.io and EPIIPLUS1 Ltd. Production and research: Chantal Smith and Marija Gavrilov.</p><br/> <p>Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See <a href="https://pcm.adswizz.com">pcm.adswizz.com</a> for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.</p>