And we're live. Live. Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Nerdy of North Vodcats. It's Nerdy Vodcats.
And it's hosted by the Northern Nerds. I am one of your horse with the very loose voice. And now the other horse, Paul. And we are joined by a full house of nerds tonight.
We've got some Northern Nerds. I'm a got some Middle Nerds. I'm a got some Southern Nerds. My God.
So we've got, I'd like to say the full breath of the UK are covered this evening. So he doesn't need any introductions, but he's not wearing his fluffy dress and gown. So all these fans will be disappointed, nearly done, is the marvelous grant. And hopefully has recovered from his little walk along in a heady and small.
He's still broken. I am. I'm going to shut him up. I'm going to shut him up.
We are all there. So we're not the youngsters. We are joined by beautiful Dan from Blaine Marvellous. Exhale two weeks in a row now.
So we're kind of still now. We're kind of still now. So one of us. I'm not happy you can't get rid.
I wonder what that sensation was. Me. It's Dan. It's me.
Yes. And we are going to be the next me. Bless you. And we've got the lovely Sarah.
And she's not in a bouncy bed tonight. So hopefully, like, say, we won't get the truss. I'm not stable. Yes.
But Sam, I mean, not Sam, but Sarah has the record now, I believe. She was on the longest podcast that we did. You were. That was so long.
I couldn't even talk at the end. I loved it though. Thank you for having me. I thought I could have talked for a lot longer.
You know, on somewhere that we had to talk about. It was good. It was a good thing. It was good.
It was good. It was good. I was just one season of Switzerland. But yes.
And thank you, Sarah, for bringing up the cake and the nerd first. I just, we thought that would actually for us to take on. But then she choked out as the tell to give them all outs. We were like, we really wanted to keep them.
We were like, we're like, we're like, we're like, we're like, give us the show. The high we needed. And we really needed it. Thank you.
And making her podcast debut. The lovely Lauren from the Midlands. Yes. And she is our resident in the area of North comic book nerd.
So actually has a very good collection. And she knows a lot of shit about comics. She knows a lot of shit. She really does.
I mean, being a Lauren of internet friends since we've been 2014. So this is like the first interaction that we've ever had with each other. It's all about Instagram, Facebook between then. So yeah, I've been into the main into Marvel and stuff.
But like, I was seven, which is 30 years now. So I thought everyone was 21. Apparently everyone was like, young, so these days would know that it's nice to have someone around our audience as well. I just fade in the blood of toddlers.
It's fine. So yes, as we always do as well, I know you've just given us a little bit of information. But when you make it debut, we do kind of penalize you a little bit. So tell us a little bit about yourself there, Lauren.
Oh, OK. Yeah, I'm a comic book nerd. That's one thing I am in Birmingham, which is a wonderful thing to be in. I think it's a very, very, very relevant.
So yeah, I've just always been a bit of a nerd, like, always like, grow up watching Thundercats. He, man, and I, and she are that kind of thing. And it's kind of like, in every one of my first memories is a watching Star Wars, which I know, is that I was in the corner of the Jedi. It was probably about 1989 at Christmas.
So I remember Christmas. Oh, Christmas, so wasn't it when we watched it? Yeah. Yeah, and I have a tape because my bad obviously it was back in the day.
So when you taped off the tully, you know, what you did back in the day. I just remember the bad words happened to the bad words because society, we paid off. So long cleared and long cleared VHS as well. If you had a long play, you could get more, that's all the things.
Yeah. Well, thank you for joining us. I'm Jerry too. Yeah, and we've been trying to get you on the podcast for a while.
Yeah. And it's nice that we've actually been able to do it. So it's great because I know you are busy lately. And Sunday nights normally have been done during his night as well, isn't it?
It used to be the sounds of time are shifted. So then I'll Friday. But sometimes it's a good. So this episode, we are doing a little bit of a part two.
Not many of we've done part two's before, but I think it's been a while since we've touched on this. And I thought it'd be quite an interesting one way as well to get some different perspectives because I think the last time it was just me, it was just me, Sam and Michaela, Ron. And I'll be honest, I do like a bit of true crime, but I don't immerse myself into it as much as I know. As I know probably my wife does, which to get her on the podcast, I'd probably have to sell, I'll give her like a thousand pound and it's just, it's not worth that.
Oh, yeah. I'll give her it. Oh, yes. We are doing a return of the true crime.
And I'll let Sam do a disclaimer first because these is always going to be a touchy subject when it comes to certain things. A lot of people do have florting failings on the subject. And but again, it is probably the most popular medium out there at this moment. Or it's been since lockdown, I would say that the big boom happened.
Yeah, well, we'll get into it. I'll try and get through the disclaimer and I apologize. Well, in advance, my cough is obnoxiously awful. So I do apologize.
But everything discussing today's episode is our opinions and our opinions alone. If you'd like to discuss anything from today's episode, please come and join us in the Facebook group where we can have an obvious discussion. We won't have anyone coming for us in town. There's our opinions are wrong.
We can all agree disagree, in fandom. So let's give it a fun, give it kind and give the toxic behaviour out of notism. Lesser. And that's the voice that's been on the BBC and the Chronicle now.
I'm the Chronicle. We got interviewed by the Chronicle before we knew it was the Chronicle. I was just like, what's the point? I was just like, what the fuck's A-Day?
I knew exactly who we were. This is why I'm like, hello there. Hi, good sir. See, that's why they keep me away from people.
Put it in the corner the way you guys. So we are going to be talking about true crime. Now, I know I did touch on a little bit. There has been a massive boom in true crime.
It's probably started off a little bit, I would say, in the last six months or so. But during lockdown, and like the pandemic says it was like a huge hit where it was basically everywhere. Like all the big ones, like Tiger King, Netflix are doing every special. Like I think every serial killer start releasing the hidden tapes or missing tapes.
Like that was everything I came out of. So what do you think like yourselves personally? Like why do you think that was the case that the true people to this? I know there's always the mischievous and the macabre aspects to it.
But I know there's going to be a few of us now to try and keep it a little bit organized. So I'll ask Dan first. So Dan, what are your thoughts on that? I think it's got a lot to do with maybe escapism still.
Whilst it's very, very real. Like you say, the big boom came around lockdown came around. When everybody was so immersed in that this was just something that you could listen to and still feel, oh yeah, this is real and it's horrible, but it's not this. So this is good.
So I mean, you've had podcasts and YouTube videos that have been going for donkeys up until the pandemic when they all shut off to stratospheric proportions, where they would get more listens than they've ever had because people had time as well. And that's something we never had the luxury of. I mean, I worked through it. So I didn't really.
So time was like, when you had to go to the end of the pandemic, you just wanted to switch off and listen to something else that you couldn't identify with, like your escapism. And it is what it was. So for me, that's kind of why I got so into it because it was still very real, but it was still not real in my life. Yeah, you could distance yourself from it.
It's almost like when you see a horror film at the start, it's just like, it kind of brings it back to you and you think, oh, I could get more interested in typing just because it could happen, if that makes sense. Well, yeah, it's right. What you're saying is, well, like the YouTube boom, like for true crime, it's like, what's that? What's that?
What's that? That's just me. And everyone goes nuts about. Is it?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, really. She talks to you like your husband. Yeah.
Right. I don't know whether that's like how everybody else feels. Yeah. Yeah.
You don't feel like just a random deal. You feel like you have a coffee with a kind of thing. It was very personal the way to kind of interacts with her audience. And I think that's the way to learn from that as well.
Try to interact with people more. Like come with me, have a coffee, have a pint. Yeah. But yeah, what about your Laura and I?
What did you come in there? I mean, I absolutely agree with them in the fact that it's horrible, but it's not your horrible. Like you can kind of almost disconnect from it. And I think one of the things to kind of go on with the face, the same thing.
And it's what a lot of the other crew crying each other's do say is like the psychology behind it is like, why people do these awful things and why what drives people? Because why do people like cannibalism and stuff like that? You're suffering in some of your own colors. One thing that scares us.
It is horrible and it's against human nature, but you kind of want to understand why. I would do that, almost. I want to go as far as to defend yourself. Although being like female presenting, you do have to know how to defend yourself and circumstances because that's what you're trying to do throughout your life.
You know, to stay safe in the suits like after dark at midnight. Because of what these horrible things have happened. So it's like a weird mix of like cautionary towels, like fairy towels when you were kids. And then the big bad wolf.
Yes. And then the white van nowadays. Oh, it was a bit of an escort when we were a kid. But yeah.
But that's an interesting take. It's an interesting take. As you said, the female perspective of this is like swinging out probably is me and Grant. I'll never be at the C to C and point of view because we're never going to be in that situation.
We've never going to be have that point of view where horribly use it. Like there's risk. I was wondering if you could ask the worry when my wife goes out to go to drinks and say, I'll get the bus back out. If you get the bus back out from Kilia, you get a taxi to the door.
I don't want you to walk. Even from the bus stops like a three minute walk from there to the line. It doesn't even conflict. But that's just a horrible way to think as well that I've got to worry about that type of aspect.
But again, as you said, like the true crime aspect, it kind of builds on that fear. And it's interesting as well because with the female perspective, it's probably not to be generous. Right. We're like, sex is there.
A lot of people who love true crime are women. It is like, I know that for the meals. I do have an interest back when I was a kid. It's one of the things true crime has always been around.
But when I used to shoot myself was to crime watch. So that was true crime for me back in the day. Used to watch crime watch and hear the different stories. It used to be put alert and things, but that used to give you a little bit of an insight.
But Sarah, what aspects do you find? I mean, just going on that, what you were saying about being female and a lot of us seem to have the interest in it, it seems to be overwhelming with female that are more into the true crime than male. It's almost like, this isn't something that's like at the forefront of my mind, but thinking on that point in particular, it could be the kind of like, oh, well, the victim in this case was female, this happened to her by this root. So I should avoid doing that kind of thing to like prepare me after getting away from something.
Just on that point, that wasn't a me personal thing. But it just made me think about that there. To me personally, it's kind of like, it's called back the morbid fascination thing and the psychological aspect of how a human could feasibly consider or then even perform whatever they did on another human. And you know how it came to it?
I mean, a lot of what I like is the detective side of things and how they work it all out to the person as well. I like the puzzle side working it out bit as well. Oh, I think that's been the big boot. The recent ones has been more shown the place I go to a badge.
I know we'll talk about the type of ones that came out. It's interesting to see the place not being shown in the right as the mistakes of me, how they've admitted the mistakes or whether the blindness is no, we were not wrong. It's like the bullshit politics, but it's interesting to try and get, because with any type of true crime or with the documentaries, you're only getting one side or getting the narratives of the person making it. So it's basically interesting to get the different points of view, which we are getting now because all the times we were getting for a long period was glorifying the killers for a lot of time.
And that's something I'd like to know. Yes, it's one of the things you can either feel uncomfortable or it depends how they handle it or go about with typing. What about you, Grant? You're not a sturdiest and serious.
I mean, in relation to my personal journey with re-grime, I kind of sat on the serial killer's that I was on as well. It was getting an heavy metal music and me teens initially fighting to announce Richard Rami, a resident claim that he'd done what he'd done because I had to help. Oh my gosh. And then I listened to the last talk and I went to Hell and thought, actually, you might have taken that one a little bit too seriously.
But then going down the route of stuff like West Memphis, Great, Three and Paradise Lost and all those kinds of things. I think in relation to the more recent movement, I don't know. I understand why it moved you in lockdown, but I think we had the touch paper that this lit a few years beforehand with me in the murderer. And then I gave people a gentle in to true grind because while it was visceral, it was this story of innocence underlying and somebody who forced the people to go and guide it down a little bit of a route into true grind as far as the broader media was concerned.
And then during lockdown, nothing fictional was coming out. So everybody that wanted a horrific, everybody that wanted a little bit of the effort and then went to the stories that had happened in real life because there was no fiction being released to scare us and go intrigue for not entertainment. But I suppose some people did do it to some other entertainment. Some people do like that stuff for that reason.
I don't thoroughly understand that point of view, but there are people that just go there. Yeah, no, definitely. And that's, I said, it's all about the human psyche as well. It's the curiosity in saying what pushes a person or what steps in the person's life did it take to where the thought this was okay or like, and it's, it is interesting to know how far do you push that curiosity where it borders on like the glorifying typing.
And as you said, like, I know when we did the last podcast, where we talked about like the sleuth inside of it, where the cause, like in certain cases now with the internet being the way it is, causing like a lot of trouble. And a good point to move on to because I say I did watch a recent one this week just because I thought I thought I'd catch up on a few of the big ones that came up because I know Netflix have just released the bombing one in... That's the marathon. That's the marathon.
That's the marathon. That was an interest because it was purely all about the investigation and the police parts of it and showing how the different arguments between police forces like on releasing information and how like they were just like overroading each other and like, like it was all for political points while then anything else, then to actually move the investigation forward. But the sleuth inside, what I thought was quite interesting is the open door, not just like phone lines but email lines where they would get people asking to send photos or videos of the information in. And the amount of photoshopped pick things that people would send in with like bags in different areas, like the station people photoshopped in because they would like to say the narrative that was al-Qaeda.
So, like all these like bigoted or racist people in America, I know you get them all around the world, but America like fuck yeah, like nothing else, nothing else. Mergah! Mergah! Yeah.
Like the amount of level that these sluits were going into, like pin them on the random people, post them their photos on things just because the colour of the skin was their pictures were getting plastered all over the internet and they were getting harassed because of some local, or not even local audiences, people on the internet. I can say something that someone else doesn't and not like the investigation. So probably slow down the investigation by so long. It's ridiculous how slu-th-sail away with it.
It's even just as recently as the lady who went missing in the water, Angela, you can't think of her. Yeah, it's her. The amount of people who went on, investigating absolutely nothing, like nothing horrible. This poor woman went missing, it was put in the news because she went missing the police fucked up merely on that one, massively.
But then these fucking Tiktokers decided to go down to her village where these people are trying to actually find this woman and start pulling shit up with that just no relevance, bringing absolutely nothing to the table and causing her family nothing but grief. The fucking disgusting people, I am all about lagging that loving, lagging, loving through crime, however you want to look at it, getting invested yourself into these cases would not publicly go out there and say, well, I can solve it because I'm in the news. You know what that is though, you know what that is, don't fuck with cats. Thanks for watching.
That has got so much to do with the way that people think that they can solve anything. I mean, I give my Jews to the two main people, their names escape me now, but they kept it under wraps. It wasn't for social glory. It was because they genuinely wanted to work this puzzle out and find him.
And they were behind the scenes for years or however long it took them, I think it was about a year and a half maybe to find this guy to work out who he was, find out what he did. They were the kind of people that when, if I go missing, I want them to work with me. I was talking about that. But they did it in such a way that Netflix took their story and made it like a glorification thing.
So you've got all your Tiktokers like you say, and your YouTubers that like to go to the grave sites and the murder sites and all that stuff. And then they try and make it that they can do the same thing because they've seen it on telly. And they aren't doing it for the right reasons. They're doing it for the cloud.
They aren't doing it to help the victims or the families. They're just doing it for like likes. It's views. It's just because they're on Tiktokers.
Especially on Tiktokers now, your viewers can get you money. It's as simple as just having people view your videos. So if you're getting more views, you're actually getting paid for that. I think Michelle McNamara who did her book, have you gone in the dark?
Oh, could someone help me out with this name? My memory is shocking tonight. Yes. Michelle McNamara was incredibly the same.
She did everything with police cooperation. She worked with them. Yes, she was documenting that. Yes, it was going to come into a book and articles were being written.
But it wasn't a case of pointing fingers. It wasn't a case of saying it is this person. I believe it's this person. It was just traces and trying to attract people's memories.
Sometimes I please do you need that help special. Whole cases might just sit on shelves for years. At one point with the right investigation, like the right journalist or researcher. That can really help the case.
Yeah, I think Michelle did it just as in that case. I think I talked about Michelle on the last one because it's so sad. It's so sad. She never found out the corner.
It needs to be like a year before or something. It was like on the book tour because I think came in Patonos, finished a book and they were on the book tour and on the documentary, which is fantastic. You really should watch it. That is such a brilliant piece of documentary.
Again, he finds out on the book tour that he's been caught and it's such a moment. But yeah, it does. When it comes to the actual true crime stories as well, I know as we've touched on, there's so many different aspects of different variations now. There's like the old school, like BBC or even if you want to sky now, there's dedicated crime channels to different things as well.
There's the Netflix ones that cover the big stories or the big events as well. Which ones is that like used personally feel connections or not connections to that? No, I forget that. I forget what you thought.
Is it like the big stories or the big ones? Or is it like the ones that are more close to the home? Definitely not close at home. That's too scary.
That's too real. Let me have more Americans. I don't mind kicking this one off if you don't mind because mine was... Well, it's Memphis 3 and I mentioned that in the last one that I watched.
I'm happy to talk about it again because I was involved in that in the late 90s. So it's been with us for a long time. Man's and murders is always a big one. I'm not going to get put in the moment and I don't know why.
Don't understand it and I hope somebody can help us try and answer it. But Chris Watts, fuck it. I have been down such a rabbit hole with him. I don't understand why we're done because it's all cut and clear.
What he did, but it's because how cut and clear it's like... Is there more to it? It's one man's obsession with his new partner. Yeah, he was so...
I think he wanted this perfect life with this new woman and he was prepared to cut everything out. At some point in psychology, I don't know whether you could pass him as a sociopath, an narcissistic tendencies or all of the above. But he literally just chopped that part of his brain and went, right, this is going to happen. And a lot of people can come...
Can't pronounce that. There we go. A lot of people can do that. I mean, to an extent I can, but I'm not talking about like burying a body in the back garden and forgetting that.
But it's for me, either wife, okay, but she was pregnant, so not okay. Not okay. Get around a wife. But this is what I thought about it.
That's what I was like. As well as the kids. So I can understand the night she came home, they get into it, shit happens, accidents happen, fuck you, kills her. He then has this woman.
I'm not going to argue with some. He told me husband about that. We had the same conversation earlier with dear. But then he has this time, this period of time, to calm his shit down.
And he sits for 45 minutes in that car with them two little girls. No one, exactly what he's going to do. That is the part I can't get my head around. I can understand to a degree of it's of rage with the wife.
I can kind of get that. It's that 45 minute drive to the drop zone. And then kids are still alive. That's exactly when it starts becoming any kind of accident.
Like as soon as you're moving the body, you're going to kill the kids now as well. Then it completely stops being like a fit of wild anger. It's not completely inexcusable. But at that moment when it's like, oh, I'm just going to kill.
This happens a lot with like, it may be since we're like, I'm sure women are going to do it, but they're going to kill their spouse. It's like, oh, I might as well kill the kids because they can't do the fact that they're parent. Well, any kind of that, that's where he's grandmother because he couldn't bear his grandmother witnessing, but that's, I totally care what you mean. Yeah, it's like, that's messed up.
And also, it's not over. He is still heavily in the news. He's looking for some, I don't know if he's looking for some form of another trial or something like that. He's talking parents are disgusting.
Absolutely. No regard for them children whatsoever. They can have their feelings on her, but they have no regard for them children. They are gone.
All they are concerned about is a hymn. And it's also being brought into question the mistress. She is now being brought into the fold, whether or not they can do anything. Oh, I don't know, but there's been questions around her now because fuck me, she's getting anything.
I have a money being that she knew what was going on. Don't get me wrong. Infidelity is one thing, right? If you choose that's the path you want to take, fucking divorce, man.
Exactly. But obviously some people don't. And she must have known. I mean, there's a degree of factors in this way.
You can say, well, he never told me he told me he was a thing of separated bodyguard. I get that. You can be, you know, you can be fed or forced around all these, all these lies and stuff like that. But the deeper you dig into her, the more she must have known something was up with him.
I'm not saying she knew what his plans were, but he's a good feeling. I want to do it. Absolutely. There's something about her as well.
They say a good lie. We'll be able to tell you their side of the story from start to finish without it without it. Without it ever changing. Whereas someone who's telling the truth will struggle to be able to tell you factual things from start to finish because the memory doesn't work that way.
It doesn't go from A to B. It can change things. You know, times can change, places can change, places can change, but a lie can tell you from start to finish. Exactly.
What the fan is, she did that throughout her whole fucking interviews. Never changed. It's a script. It's a script.
You're like, they're such hard heads. Like, rehearsed. It's like, same as Tia, then, you know, it's a little queen from Hamlet. You rehearse it.
You know it. Yeah. So, yeah, Chris, what I went out, honestly, I couldn't even tell you one. I've just gone down so many massive rabbit holes with them.
I just find it so fascinating, but I am finding more fascinating. The side of people who are willing to tell you why they did it. So, we all wonder why, God, how can we, how can we, how do we get into the mind of these people? How do we break them down?
But there's actually a few people who will actually tell you what I did it. And, you know, they would do it again. And I'm getting more fascinated in them and never used to. I used to find them quite boring because they'd like, what fun is that trying to figure them out?
But listening to like Edmund Kemper and Dennis Nielsen, God, even fucking Dennis Rader. I go out, honestly, out of all the serial killers, these are fucking worst. But yeah, I'm starting to be fascinated with the people who are willing to actually tell you why. Have you watched I am a killer, Sami?
No, which one is that one. Is that about Dennis Rader? No, no, it's a Netflix one. It's one of the series ones where like every weekly interview, ear killer, in prison.
Right. So, I think it's kind of tight. It's just going to that kind of side of things. Oh, cool.
I make it that watch because it's honestly that is about four seasons now. That is really fascinating for me is to the people actually will into talk as to why. Absolutely. It's interesting because it's very different as well.
It's not just why. They do swing widely, like some while ago. You know, I admit I did it. I regret it.
You know, this is what happened. So, like, no, I'd do it again type of thing. What the? I did it again.
So, like, I think there's one flat. You can let me out of here. I do it again right now. Oh, God.
That's Edmonton. That honestly, that man terrifies me more than anything in the world. But he is just so fucking fascinating just to listen to and openly talk about his whole life. He holds nothing back.
He does audio books now, doesn't he? Oh, my God. I did not know that. Yeah.
He reads them in prison. They record him and they sell the audiobooks. So, you could have listened to him at some point reading an audio book and you wouldn't know. It's just that, you know.
He has it has a very distinct point. I don't know whether it goes into his comments. It's as long as it's not. as long as it's not connected to his crimes, then yes, because it's in a San-law state that you can't profit off your own crime.
It was like bringing Harry Potter or something like that. Yeah, it's stuff that's not nonfiction. It's all fictional that I'm aware of. Yeah, that's crazy.
Mental. I'm going to talk about that. I thought now strangely, I'll go. He's got such a voice.
Like, he can totally draw you in. I think that's what John Douglas said more about him. He's just saw you. He can just draw you in.
And to the point where he actually, I think he said to John Douglas, and I'm sure this is in mindhunter as well to use this in mindhunter where he's like, I could literally get up here and snap your neck. And I would think nothing of it. And he got so close, he scared the shit out of him. He had to back away from him, but he just laughed it off and went, I'm not going to.
I'm not going to do it. He was a monster of mine. I think similar to what Sarah was saying, there's a sure Netflix and I can't stand them on. I think he's the, like, he shouldn't be given the airtime to do anything, but for his due, there is a show called, like, Women That Kill, and it's got PS Morgan.
He's the only reason I haven't watched that one because he's more than. It's the only thing where his type of line of question kind of works. Because he's very good. He's very, but I tell you, because I had exactly the same when it comes to Peter's Morgan, but that man is a good fucking interviewer.
Like he asks the right questions. He keeps the tone you're not used to of a million way. He's a very different person when he's doing that type of one. It's almost kind of like a Louis Thoreau type situation, where Louis kind of engages with him and brings him like an effault sense of purity before he starts the relation, like the harsh questions in Louis Thoreau where he's talking to him, asking them to tell them stories.
And then when the S.A.S. thing, that's not quite right. He calls them on it. And it's like, because you can tell when people just fill in your bullshit.
She's like, oh, yeah, we didn't plan on the kill. And we said, well, why the fuck did you take it? I go on. Oh, it was just that protection.
But why did you need protection? It just did. And it's like very direct and like, I don't think these prisoners, because they're all American, so they're all female American prisoners. So they've never been probably talked to like hostility, like any of you, because I always like trying to, I think they want to get the story.
So it's kind of nicey, nicey. And yeah, let's play nice little talk. And there's a few people that's actually walked out of them, like saying, I'm not talking to them anymore, but he's never a breasive or a P.S. Morgan-esque.
It's just, like, as he said, he tries to get to the story. And that's probably where P.S. Morgan was a good journalist, where you just become a ethnoist. I could say a prick, to be honest, put in the nice way.
Yeah. Yeah. That was always an interesting one. Well, you're going to, like, I know you're like a bit of the dark side, shall we say.
So what kind of element draws you into it? I'm not saying I can tell the skeleton. It's like I'm worried. So you should have done Grant, you should have wrote it on the back and read.
Well, it was actually, it wasn't held at the skeleton. It was he gets a skill to because it couldn't spell. I really thought for a second there, what are you still looking to say? Well, a t-shirt.
Sorry, good. The t-shirt is actually a replica of the one that they sold Ted Fondi's execution outside when they started working. Oh my gosh. T-shirt.
I'm a funny bird. I mean, the one that sent me was always Paradise Lost, and it was the West Memphis 3. You know, that documentary in itself is, you know, the open sequence is one of the most difficult washes of cinema that I've ever fucking witnessed. It's a horror one.
But I've always, much of the same as what Sami's just, said that she's getting into, I've always been interested in the people that were left to talk, I've always been fascinated by the psychology of what put these people in that mindset and the justifications for them to come out of it. I think it's because, like I said, Richard Ramirez with AC DC, I just went, hold on, he got that from a whole lot of Rosie. Yeah. Really?
What kind of crack was he smoking? A lot of it. A lot. Yeah, yeah, a lot.
So yeah, like the cold case, he kind of stuff, and what have you is the one that's relatively new to me, stuff like the t-shirt that you've been talking about. And what have you, you know, my love at my killer and all of this kind of thing is something that I'm just becoming accustomed to with it. I kind of, I like the classics, if you will. Yeah.
I'm a classic girl too. So what kind of classics? Sorry, I thought my headphones went off there for a second. I'm not keen.
Like I say, the people that are kind of still alive to be able to tell it. So, you know, trying to work my way, your way, whatever you might call it, through the mic, and somebody like, I mean, Bondi's obviously not here now, when he lived for long enough before he was executed, doesn't start picking his brains to bits. And what have you, and just, like I said, going down the psychology halls and trying to work out what made them what they are. And I've always very quite happily debated the concept between, are you born evil or are you why I don't that way?
You're in childhood and I think the concept of whether you're born something or whether you're why I don't that way is a lot broader than just the ocean kill. Yeah, but it's always been that wonder as to what point did it, what, you know, what point did Dharma suddenly go, you know, I'm going to do like an deck of rad or whatever it might be. You know, what point did Bondi's brain just go and he became what he was and obviously with people like Manson, there's, you know, a pretty cut and paste root into the trauma and the narcissism that went with being a cult leader, but some of them, it's not quite as simple as that. And that's the bit that's fascinated me.
And I'd say the cold, okay, stuff with the exception of Harvard, I just lost which I supported because I was a metal fan. And this was presented in front of me. And it was a massive miscarriage of injustice. I've actually just given my Westmeps and the three original support to teach you that we don't have a couple of bucks.
I used to have the bracelets. I don't, you know, remember the like the real bracelets? Yeah. I used to have one of them from like back in the late, because it was late 90s.
And I've no idea where it is. I pledge my money. The famous three, the Westmeps, the three characters, was on the just one from the campaign and followed that throughout. And then, yeah, that's me.
No, it's an interesting one as well, the instance between nurture versus nature, I think, because I think, like, again, not to, like, say, I'm a psychologist and stuff, I think a lot of people, a lot of these will have like, say an addictive personality, shall we see it? And it's one of them things, you know, when you get addicted to something, I'm not saying like, go off and start killing and doing things. Do something like that. It's like going over that line.
You need to push that line again. So it's similar to say with when I start like this project, I'm not going to say because when it's not like Manson, but it's start off like saying, how many people can I get to join? Well, it's right, articles, then it's like, what's the next thing you're trying to push to the next level? And that's my kind of like addiction to it, I think, where these people they've just got different urges, but it's kind of like, well, definitely different urges.
Sorry. Um, it's basically how far they can push their threshold, like my threshold, I can't even hurt it. Like, I'll take a spider outside. So I'm soft as glass where it's that type of element that kind of triggers or not see every lead.
I'm not trying not to come across as a bit of a psychopath at all, but I can understand a little bit too. Psychopath test. And I only feels because of the animal part. That's the worry inside of it.
I literally only feel because of the animal part. There's something wrong with me. Like my husband discovered that today. We'll go back to what Grant said.
There is actually a common threat when you start going into the nature versus nurture side of it. They're finding more and more that I call them the big lot, you know, the famous ones, the big, the top of the top here. The common thread through those guys is that at some point they had a head injury as a child. They ended up in hospital due to beatings from family or from bullies or they fell out of trees or they got hit by cars.
And there's this common thread that goes through that they have some knock on the bonds, which then makes them go, and they're not saying that everybody that gets hit on the head is a child is going to be a murderer. But it's an underlying common thread that seems to be becoming more and more now when they go back into their history. And it's brain injury on top of trauma. That's the common thread.
And it was the same way. But the point of your noise is because it's like, you don't know when it comes to him what's true and what's factual. The fuck I just liked to talk to whoever he was talking to, he suited the conversation to them. If you've ever heard the interviews where he did it with the priest and he would try to say, Oh, we're blaming on sex.
It was he was sex bad. He was sex crazy. And what he's just sitting there going, yes, yes, I was. He was such a liar.
And he was the son of Sam as well. Like saying he believed on the dog talkroom, then he's like, Oh, just thought. This is the son of Sam. Oh, he's just a creepy man.
And I still think there's something more to that than I just can't. I can't think that David Bergowitz did all that. I really can't. And he said he had to have some kind of help.
Even just the time and where he was versus the police car, that was like really close to one night. There was no feasible way to bigger than one point to another. But I love the way I'm serving somebody else involved in that case. And the only thing I have to be the full guy though, who was dumb enough to be like the full guy and take the rapper.
Oh, I got you. Oh, I was going to say done. I was going to say the minute you only show signs of some form of psychosis by saying a dog's talk to you. Yeah, that's your only bit of complete absolute craziness in the whole scheme of things.
That's the one thing that you're wrestling your own case on. And then when you went now, it's found God. So he's OK. And you know, he's repented his sins and he's they all David Bergowitz swears.
He never did it or he's saying he did it for all the different reasons. You know, like they do, they go in that weird circle of they know they're in there for the rest of their life. They're not getting out and nine times that's end. They'll never see death row, even though they're on death row.
And they just they find God, then they repent and they say, well, I didn't do it. And then they have, oh, I did it, but I have my reasons. And then oh, I didn't do it. And you go through this whole just don't think he's clever enough.
No, I really don't. It was a big scale. It was massive. And I don't think he's clever enough to all history.
It was what actually happened. He's just no, very dear. But no, what was it? It was a 70s or wasn't it?
So the place for something wasn't really up to scratch. So we see that. So quite a different place then as well. Oh, you're incredibly incredibly violent in the 70s and the 80s.
It was a war zone basically. Yeah, to be honest with that, you don't really know who you're fighting for. Because New York was terrible. We fucked David.
No, not really. But when I started talking about that thing, so I'm in the chat, talking about talks. Right. And that is the prisoners and stuff.
I've never thought about doing I don't know if any of you guys have thought. No, no, it's all weird. So I went back in college. Like I was kind of casually part of like some of my friends joined the Amnesty International like group and one of the things that Christmas time was they sent Christmas cards to prisoners.
All right. Which I don't know who they sent them to kind of thing. But one of those kind of things where it's just like, you know, choice. Yeah.
It was a choice. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I was like some kind of list to pick that your prisoner from.
They did use to have like a boo. Like a boo good people who you could and you got their number. You didn't necessarily know exactly what they did. But you saw who they were and you could like literally write to them.
If these women who get fascinated. Yeah, they are. There's a difference between giving somebody some kind of like lifeline of like being a better person and being a weird fan. Yeah.
That boy over it. It's when. Oh, sorry. It was like like some people like get obsessed and marry him.
This is like, that was the point I was leading to was the whole thing. They were fucking dying their hair to match his victim choices. Like we a man. You find themselves at Jeffrey Dama.
It's like, I mean, he was definitely not interested in you. Yeah. Well, I'm not a type. Well, you're done.
Like, like what ones do I like to like draw you in typing? And I'm not biased. I like them all. Purely because everything is so different.
Copycat killers fascinate me because they're just doing it for the cloud. Like you say, there's a there's a sentiment of that. And was it him? Was it me?
You'll never know. Oh, but what gets what it was me? But yeah, it's I like the ones that are. Oh, this is going to sound awful.
I like them. I don't like that. It's the terminology. Yeah.
Yeah. You can't go right. You can't go right. The terminology through crime is the famous people.
You know, like the true crime to do famous people. And I'm not talking about serial killers, that kind of thing. I'm talking about famous people who got involved in somewhere or another. And it just cascades from there.
Because I mean, going back to Manson, he the fascinating thing for me about the Manson case was he actually went and lived with one of the Beach Boys for a year. For an entire year. And he wanted to be on one of the albums. He actually is credited.
Well, he's not credited on the album. He's on the B side. He's on the B side of one of them. What the fuck?
Yeah. Well, that's very, very, very gone to the property. It's a senior drive. It's a senior drive that Terry Melcher.
And that's where he was going to. And when it was turned out that it was Sharon Tain Rowan-Plansky. He was like, never, but it was Tex Watson's decision to do that, to go there. It was just Manson who pointed them in the direction.
But it's like the case that I'd sort of put a bit together about today was actually this one. I don't know if people know about the murder of Dominique Dunn. I do. I'm doing this.
And it's so tragic because at every point along the way, it could have been avoided. It could have been avoided. It's so sad. Yeah.
I mean, she was only 22 when she died. Three. Eighties. Yeah.
In November, 1982, John Sweeney, her boyfriend, who had a long history of domestic violence against her, strangled her for five minutes in the front garden after she had kicked him out about a month before. And she didn't die. She was legally declared bread and dead for five days, but she died of her injuries, basically. And the amount of fuckery, you do remember that case a while back with that lad that raped that girl and he was a champion swimmer, so I judge her.
Yeah. It was very similar to that in the respect of how the judge treated John Sweeney, because he had a future. Yeah. And he was a good one.
Yeah. And, you know, he worked on the Wolfgang Puck, so he must have had, you know, he must be good, you know, and all this sort of stuff. And it was like, they had history and they had statements from his previous girlfriend where he beat her so badly. Her eyesock it was gone.
Ah. You know, and he wouldn't let her testify in the case because he said it would make the jury be prejudicial against him. And it's like, well, that's the bloody point. Yeah.
I, you know, but in the end, they reduced it to, you got two and a half. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.