Ray McGovern & Graham E. Fuller: Ukraine Burns, Middle East Erupts episode artwork

EPISODE · Jul 24, 2025 · 1H 3M

Ray McGovern & Graham E. Fuller: Ukraine Burns, Middle East Erupts

from Dialogue Works

Nima Rostami Alkhorshid:What is your assessment of the Istanbul talks between Ukraine and Russia, and what do each side want?Are the protests in Ukraine primarily about opposition to Zelenskyy, or are they signaling a desire for new leadership?Do you see signs that Germany is beginning to understand the realities of the war in Ukraine, especially in public opinion and media?Is there evidence that British intelligence is preparing Zaluzhny to replace Zelenskyy as president of Ukraine?What is your view on the situation in Gaza, particularly regarding Israel’s humanitarian claims in Ukraine while conducting a military campaign in Gaza?Ray McGovern:The Ukrainian delegation likely attended the Istanbul talks under U.S. pressure, as Zelenskyy is in deep trouble politically and financially. Trump reportedly warned him it was his “last chance” to negotiate before U.S. support ends, suggesting a shift toward Europe.The protests in Ukraine may reflect a desire for new leadership, possibly someone from the hard-right Azov faction, which ironically aligns with Russia’s stated goal of “denazification.” This puts Ukraine in a difficult position.German public opinion is heavily brainwashed on Ukraine. Even suggesting understanding Putin’s perspective is taboo—Angela Merkel was attacked for advocating it. The destruction of Nord Stream has hurt Germany’s economy, but awareness of U.S. role in this is still limited.Zaluzhny is reportedly close to the Azov movement, which makes him problematic. While the British may be backing him, the succession plan is unclear. Zelenskyy may be kept temporarily to accept an unpopular peace deal to shield a new leader from blame.The hypocrisy of Israel condemning Russian actions in Ukraine while committing atrocities in Gaza is staggering. The U.S. remains the key enabler, and moral authority is absent. Younger generations, including Jewish Americans, are increasingly rejecting this double standard.Graham E. Fuller:The Istanbul talks reflect a moment of truth. Western narratives of Ukrainian victory are collapsing. The U.S. and Europe must now manage a retreat from their own propaganda, and Zelenskyy may lose his position as a result.The real issue behind the protests is the collapse of Western promises. Zelenskyy may be used as a “fall guy” to accept a humiliating peace, sparing a successor from the political cost of surrender.Germany’s current government is weak, but rising populist, anti-war, and anti-NATO movements may force a political shift. Economic hardship could eventually push Germany to reassess its foreign policy dependence on the U.S.The British have historically influenced U.S. foreign policy and are likely playing a key role in shaping Ukraine’s leadership transition. Boris Johnson previously sabotaged peace talks, indicating deep British involvement in prolonging the conflict.Israel’s actions in Gaza are indefensible, especially given its public stance on Ukraine. While some European institutions and media are beginning to speak more honestly, real change will require U.S. congressional action—which is blocked by massive pro-Israel lobbying. The situation is morally bankrupt but politically entrenched. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nima Rostami Alkhorshid:What is your assessment of the Istanbul talks between Ukraine and Russia, and what do each side want?Are the protests in Ukraine primarily about opposition to Zelenskyy, or are they signaling a desire for new leadership?Do you see signs that Germany is beginning to understand the realities of the war in Ukraine, especially in public opinion and media?Is there evidence that British intelligence is preparing Zaluzhny to replace Zelenskyy as president of Ukraine?What is your view on the situation in Gaza, particularly regarding Israel’s humanitarian claims in Ukraine while conducting a military campaign in Gaza?Ray McGovern:The Ukrainian delegation likely attended the Istanbul talks under U.S. pressure, as Zelenskyy is in deep trouble politically and financially. Trump reportedly warned him it was his “last chance” to negotiate before U.S. support ends, suggesting a shift toward Europe.The protests in Ukraine may reflect a desire for new leadership, possibly someone from the hard-right Azov faction, which ironically aligns with Russia’s stated goal of “denazification.” This puts Ukraine in a difficult position.German public opinion is heavily brainwashed on Ukraine. Even suggesting understanding Putin’s perspective is taboo—Angela Merkel was attacked for advocating it. The destruction of Nord Stream has hurt Germany’s economy, but awareness of U.S. role in this is still limited.Zaluzhny is reportedly close to the Azov movement, which makes him problematic. While the British may be backing him, the succession plan is unclear. Zelenskyy may be kept temporarily to accept an unpopular peace deal to shield a new leader from blame.The hypocrisy of Israel condemning Russian actions in Ukraine while committing atrocities in Gaza is staggering. The U.S. remains the key enabler, and moral authority is absent. Younger generations, including Jewish Americans, are increasingly rejecting this double standard.Graham E. Fuller:The Istanbul talks reflect a moment of truth. Western narratives of Ukrainian victory are collapsing. The U.S. and Europe must now manage a retreat from their own propaganda, and Zelenskyy may lose his position as a result.The real issue behind the protests is the collapse of Western promises. Zelenskyy may be used as a “fall guy” to accept a humiliating peace, sparing a successor from the political cost of surrender.Germany’s current government is weak, but rising populist, anti-war, and anti-NATO movements may force a political shift. Economic hardship could eventually push Germany to reassess its foreign policy dependence on the U.S.The British have historically influenced U.S. foreign policy and are likely playing a key role in shaping Ukraine’s leadership transition. Boris Johnson previously sabotaged peace talks, indicating deep British involvement in prolonging the conflict.Israel’s actions in Gaza are indefensible, especially given its public stance on Ukraine. While some European institutions and media are beginning to speak more honestly, real change will require U.S. congressional action—which is blocked by massive pro-Israel lobbying. The situation is morally bankrupt but politically entrenched. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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This episode was published on July 24, 2025.

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Nima Rostami Alkhorshid:What is your assessment of the Istanbul talks between Ukraine and Russia, and what do each side want?Are the protests in Ukraine primarily about opposition to Zelenskyy, or are they signaling a desire for new leadership?Do...

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