Hi everyone, welcome to Stacking Growth. I'm your host, Sydney Waterfall. I had a special guest today. I'm super excited about it.
I want to intro Dave Vergotti. He's the CEO and founder of inflection.io. And he's been doing some awesome stuff on their company. You should definitely go follow them on LinkedIn.
I've been very impressed by their GoToMarket strategy and some of the things that they're doing. So I wanted to get them on the podcast to talk about it. So welcome, Dave, and feel free to introduce yourself to the listeners. Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
I'm excited to be on the podcast. And yeah, I'm Dave Vergotti. And I spent quite a few years at Episible running marketing and then a couple of years at Marketo, post-pisible acquisition. And now back at it with a new startup, Inflection.io, and team back up with a lot of the same people we were working together with at Episible.
So it's a ride and we're having a blast. Yeah, I feel like we go back a little bit to the visible days, which is awesome. That's the first time I met you as we were implementing Episible, that's simply measured. And seeing your guys' journey, and then when this company started, even before you had a name, I was working at a PLG company, ally.io.
And it was great to connect there. I know you guys were doing a kind of customer research and really understanding the market to inform the product. So can you kind of give just a quick overview of what is Inflection, who's it for? What do you guys do just so readers can kind of get a, or listeners can get a sense before we dig into some of your go-to-market strategy?
Yeah, of course. Yeah, Inflection.io, it's marketing automation. Or another way to think about it is the user communications for product-led companies. And it's like, what you would expect.
You can build email campaigns. You can kind of orchestrate the journeys. And you can interact with Salesforce data and the whole kind of lead management aspects of marketing animation. And the reason we started is after we left Marketo, we went out, we interviewed you, and probably 120 other companies, all product-led asking just kind of what are the challenges they're having, and what are the big things that we should go focus on.
And everyone just kept saying, look, we're a product-led company. Product data is incredibly important to the way we think about growth and communicating with our users and how we want to drive better marketing with this data. But we have a struggle getting to the data. We struggle using the data.
We struggle with just kind of orchestrating our marketing around that. And so a lot of companies went out and said, hey, can you guys solve for this? Can you go build a marketing animation that brings in product data? So we're like, yeah, sure, we can do that.
So that's what we did. We went out, we built integrations to data warehouses and product data in Salesforce. And we came out a couple of months ago, and it's going great. Nice.
Yes. I've definitely been following along. And I think the product is really cool. And one thing that I want to talk about next is, first of all, it seems like you spent a lot of time on my customer research and understanding.
And I think that gets underplayed a lot as a company you're just starting out, even in an existing company. So I want to talk through, besides customer interviews, what are the things where you guys considering and looking at when you were researching of what to build and how to build it and honestly, how to message it as well? Yeah, for sure. And we're still learning.
And we're going to learn forever. Never ends. Visible started almost by chance. It started because just before I joined, the team was working on attribution, but in a different way than the kind of visible that everyone knows today.
It was for like, mom and pop shops. And then Salesforce were shutting down a little app that they were running called Salesforce for Google AdWords. And so the team was like, hey, why don't we build an app to just replace that? And then it just basically just connecting Google AdWords and Salesforce.
And then it just like, over the years, it's kind of kept building on. And it turned out to be a great business, and it was an awesome, awesome journey. This time around, we wanted to be really thoughtful about, well, we're able to be able to go do this on both network and just financial privilege to go do this. Just go spend some time just talking with people about what are your big challenges.
And we really intentional about going after something that we felt and that customers and folks were telling us is a big, mini problem for them. That they don't have kind of a great pass forward. So that was one, just what kind of problem are we solving for? And when you do start off second time around, you get way more permission to go way bigger.
So the vision here is big. It's kind of an all or nothing thing. And so we did all those interviews, which was great. The other thing we just thought through, it's just like the kind of TAM and the opportunity and just, is this space that we want to be in?
And we actually even explored ideas outside of Mark's Act too, and it just kept coming back to Mark's Act Act. And I guess we're going to get away. And so yeah, those are the big things. Like let's go solve something that's a real problem.
Let's go solve something that is a really big space. And it might take many, many years to realize the vision. But we have that permission and a great set of investors and team that is all kind of aligned on that. So those are the big things we did.
And then we were cranking away on our MVP for almost two years, a year and a half or so. So we started this product web.marketing community as a way just to see what are people going to talk about. Let's bring people together to talk about product growth. And first of all, help people, because there's a lot of times people are doing product growth for the first time.
And we talk about marketing, marketing folks. And they're like, being asked to weigh in on our segment events. And I don't even know where to start with that. Or, hey, we're getting pulled into think about packaging strategies.
We've never done that before. We just need to think about that as much. And so a lot of first time, turn the crank for so many folks. And so our goal with that was just bring people together and just provide a form and space for people to help each other out.
And the benefit of us too, of just what is top of mind for folks, we're going to talk about, which is of course, helpful as you're building a company. Yeah, I thought that was a really interesting strategy. Because first of all, you're going after product-led companies, product-led marketers, operators, business leaders within there. And so a lot of those companies, or decent on those companies, are led through community growth, templates, libraries, things like that, how the big, the murals and the big product-led kind of companies out there.
So I thought that was really smart to do way before even launching your company out of self-mode. And also, it sounds like it was a strategy to connect with your audience and learn from them and understand them. It was a main motivation there to start that community. Yeah.
It's all from being a helpful place. I think we've modeled it off of what Sangrum and the Terminist did a team that a long time ago with Flip My Funnel, which is let's bring people together. Let's be helpful. When somebody starts off with a community, it doesn't make a lead in our CRN.
They'd be like, oh, blah, blah, blah. And we're like, hey, we want to start a software. That's not what that is. And so we use that kind of playbook as a model.
And I think that's the right way to build communities, especially industry communities. You've been in the market tech space before. I know that was not your initial goal was, but you're in the market space again. So how does forming your go-to-market strategy change or not change now that you're a founder or CEO?
Right. Yeah. Now we see you want to work for a CEO who gets marketing. It's like, I don't have to do this.
It's the pros and cons of that. They're like, get your marketing. There's so a con that they can get their fingers free to fit it. We're still so early.
This is going to be a decades-long journey. And we have a great set of customers. We have a number of paying customers. They're doing some great things in our products.
But we're still learning. We're still learning a lot on product marketing before we think too much about our go-to-market. Who are we? Some pretty big questions.
Today, you go to our homepage, and it's all about marketing on a nation. And that's true. We do have customers that use us as their marketing automation product. It's used in marketing.
But we also have customers that are actually success teams. And another one, it's the product team. And it's not marketing at all. Marketing doesn't have a login.
And so it's not marketing automation when it's used by product teams to do user onboarding, like maybe. But the user and the beneficiary for the software for marketing is marketing. And the beneficiary was sales. And it was pretty clear.
Thus, it's like, that's true for some companies. In some use cases, sometimes it's products. Sometimes it's success as a beneficiary. So we're still learning a lot about what is the right angle in the companies.
And this comes back to everything PLG for the first time. Like, it's different in so many companies. But what we've been doing is just creating a lot of content. So we have about 25 team members at the company, two marketers, and pretty much both are focused on content creation.
And just spending time thinking about what are questions people have, how can we be helpful and go create good content. And so that's what we're focused today. And we're learning every time we put out something new. We're learning something new about product growth.
We're learning something new about how people react to that and what kind of content they want to see. Nice. I love that. I think your customer insights really kind of drive your almost your content strategy, right?
So obviously, you have a success team and stuff. But how else are you kind of as a company generating those customer insights to inform your product positioning and even your more marketing content strategy? Yeah. Yeah, we're still.
We do like Slack groups for our customer support. So no customer support, if you know phone number. Even like help desk or anything like that, it's just we create a Slack connect group. And we're just in there talking with customers every day, all day through Slack and of course, I'm doing stuff too.
And we learn a lot about our products and also just with on their mind. And so that's been the most helpful thing. And well, it's actually not a very isolated group either. Like we'll have our engineering leaders in those groups, our product teams in those groups.
So it's kind of like we get to look across all functions of the company when somebody asks a question or has an issue. And as we build product, that's the best way for us to kind of learn. And even product marketing, it's like, well, hey, we're working on this thing. What do you think it should be?
Or how do you think about it? Or what would you even call this thing? Yeah. And so that's kind of our success strategy.
It's been like, let's just be on all hands on deck with our first 10 customers here and be really helpful and learn and adjust from there. I think that's a good takeaway, honestly, like no matter what size. Obviously, as much as company, it's a little easier to kind of be all hands on deck. But when you think about even just customer insights, it's not just obviously marketing is a big role in there.
But to your point, like product and engineering can drive so much growth and just knowledge from having those customers as being connected to a customer. So I love that approach. I don't think a ton of companies take that approach. So I think that is learning.
It's like an intentional learning from doing it. Like doing our time at this world was never, we never, like between engineering and the customer, they understood the customer, but they, not enough. And we're always thinking like, I think there's a story of when you start your job at Shopify, you have to go set up a store, like every employee sets up a store even it's fake. But you have to get to the product, you have to use it.
And so we think we think things like that too. Like when an engineer starts, like they should have a campaign and go, you know, until you assume here, they'll be actually executing campaigns, you know, in partnership with our marketing team, but you have to be like, you have to be a user. So we're much more intentional this time around about that connectivity between products, engineering and customers and have them really feel the joys and pains that our customers go through. Nice.
So I want to get into kind of like who leads what inside of your company, because I feel like smaller people probably have multiple things, right? Not like singular functions. So like what do you lead, who leads success, who help leads product, who helps with the vision, marketing, kind of give me like a little breakdown here. How are you doing it?
Yeah, we have a couple of keep folks. So I mostly, we're still very founder led sales. So I mostly like very focused on driving, driving sales and then, you know, pitching in on marketing a little bit. And then I have Vic Davis who ran success visible in the time of marketing, or at M.R.
Keto. So he's running the success team. It's actually just, it's just him. But he's driving all of our onboardings and being really, really connected with the customer.
And he's obviously been in MARTech for a very, very long time. And then I have Aaron Burr, yeah. And then I have Aaron Burr, who was a CEO at Visible, who was my boss for like six years. Well, we kind of flipped it around.
Now I get to be responsible a little bit. Oh, that's fun. He works with us full time as a, essentially driving product, which is great. He's like a product and a sales engineer.
So that's really helpful. And then I have two co-founders, Open Knuckle, who are leading our engineering teams. We have an engineering team in India and engineering team in Seattle and been working both of our tech for a long time. So we're very like product and engineering focused right now.
We have 25 and four years. And I think probably about 20 are all in product engineering. And we've built so much. And we also have like so much more to build.
So we're cranking away on product. And then mostly Vick and I handle a lot of the sales and success pieces. Nice. Makes sense, you know, for kind of the type of product your guys are building and the stage that you're at.
But I always get curious of just how things are set up and who's responsible for what. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we sold as well.
We had 10 engineers. And now we have almost 20. So very like, very different approach to building products. Love it though.
Seems it seems, I mean, from else I'm looking at it, seems like it's coming off. It is. It's funny. It's fun to try.
Nice. OK, I want to get into some of the tactics or things I've been seeing that I've been like super impressed with. And just want to chat through them, why you guys did them, what was your goal or is your thinking there. So first and foremost, you kind of came out publicly, what about two to three months ago?
Ish, OK, cool. I was going back in LinkedIn post to figure it out. But one thing is you published your pricing on your website, which that's a hot topic just in general in Martek, especially with higher ACV products or usage based products. So I would love to chat through why you guys did that.
And what was your thought on publishing pricing? And obviously that page is going to constantly evolve as you learn and change your pricing and packaging. So just walk me through that. Yeah, I think there were a couple things we thought of with pricing.
We are very usage based. I think we're the only marketing company that does usage based. Instead of just the number of contacts you have really charged based on who you actually talk to. So anyone out there who's ever having to delete contacts or you don't have to do that with us.
It looked like we sell to product companies. Every product company out there has some part of their culture or their mindset is about being transparent, being easy to work with, and really they'll have published pricing. And so we're not product led ourselves today. We'll get there.
There's a lot to build to do that really well. And we didn't want to have a C plus experience for being product led. And so we'll wait for that A plus experience. But hey, we should have as part of our culture the things that we need to be able to be product led in the future.
So one of those is publishing our pricing and being really transparent about the packaging of that. And yeah, go look at Martech. And it's almost nobody publishes pricing. In fact, a lot of people don't even publish tears.
It's just contact us and we'll put something in front of you. And you have no idea if that's a good deal or a bad deal or what. And we just didn't want to operate that way. And so we're very from day one, published pricing.
And we now have a calculator that makes it a little easier for people to figure out what is your pricing today? And fast forward two or three years. And maybe you're putting 50,000 people a month through inflection of your users. And you want to work towards deploying us to your 5 million users.
What's our pricing going to be like when you do that? And it helps people just plan. And it's just the right thing to do, honestly. Totally agree.
I mean, even if you're not marketing in the PLG space, a lot of the companies who are doing this and being a little bit more at front, getting your educating your market, giving them all the information. Here's the price. Here's what you can expect. So when you do consider us, when you do talk to us, it's hopefully a much better productive conversation, honestly.
That's right. That's right. I'm busy. It's like a lot to do.
And so I'm still driving sales. And I will for probably a little bit longer. And so if being public on our pricing can also filter out some people that would otherwise have wanted a demo, then we get the price. And like, oh, no, that's not what I was expecting.
That's great. It increases the wheels for sales. And it filters out people that maybe this isn't for. And we're being very intentional about the types of markets that we go after.
And so I think it's not only the right thing to do. I think it's helpful for our business too. 100%. Yeah.
Consent the expectations before you're spending resource and time and all of that up front. So that was one thing that I was like, I saw on your website. I was like, yes, this is great. I love this.
The other thing that we kind of touched on a little bit ago was the product led community. And we've seen that grow when I think you have almost how many members do you have? You have a little 800 members now. And then you're kind of putting that on your website, promoting it.
So people learn about you that way. And I also saw that you guys have been doing some events in the community, the product led marketing show. So yeah, just curious of how that's evolving now that you've actually launched the company publicly. Yeah.
We still have more work to do there too. I think this is the hard part about running communities early on is you have to decide, do I spend time working on a community today? Or do I spend time generating demand Jan for the product today? And because we're being really intentional about it being separate, that is the decision you have to make.
It's not that if you grow the community, will it grow in function? And not really intentional, that's because that's the right thing to do for a community. So we haven't invested as much as we want. Our vision with it is to make it into a place to go, the forum that you see today.
But we want to start getting to a point where we're publishing premium content and really thinking about not just having the space for people to talk, but help guide the industry forward. And I almost think about it as a serious decision or a topo, but for PLG, because there's not a lot of content out there. And so we're working on a lot of that content. And that's the vision where it will go and live events too.
And so there's a lot of plans for it. And it's finding the time to get done. But there's a lot happening there in the conversations. And there's some cool premium content coming out really soon too.
Nice. Good teaser there. I like that. It goes through the community.
One thing that I think was key there that you differentiated, which is going to be great for kind of listeners, is the community is not a part of your demand-gen strategy. They are separate. And you treat them separate. And they have separate.
They should be separate. And I think you did a great job explaining that. But I want to double back on that for listeners. It's like, they should be separate.
They shouldn't be like, we're going to go start a community. And then hopefully in a year, it's going to drive demand for the company. So as you're thinking about the trade-offs and stuff you've mentioned, but are you thinking about having eventually a different owner of the community, that's their full scope. That's completely different than driving demand or growth for the company.
How do you think about that? Yeah, definitely. We're at that point now where we probably should go our ties that roll and do that. Because it's kind of the only way those communities work is that playbook works is if somebody's full-time soul job and their time can't be the point elsewhere.
And this is like, yeah, if they're like, this is why I've hired you and go make this happen. And so we're probably pretty close, actually, to doing that to take it to the next level. It's almost like a side hustle for the business today. And it really does the right thing for the group and the right thing for the industry is to go, keep it going and driving forward.
And the way to do that is to have somebody just think about it all day, every day. And how do we make it better? What can we do for folks? And start to bring in others too.
We have competitors in there today, and they post. And that's great. I have no problem with that at all. And this person starts to pull in.
Others from across the industry, whether they're great folks, providers that matter, just start getting more content created and drive that value. So we're probably pretty close to making that happen and doing that. Nice. Yeah.
It's something that we come across a lot of helping with people with, OK, what's your community strategy? It's like, well, before we even get to the strategy, let's make sure it's set up correctly. And the leadership and the team has the right idea. It's not something that, oh, marketing will just run a community.
And the best communities you see, totally separate teams. They're working with different companies. They've got different people in there, all the points that you made. So I love your guys' focus on that.
And I think a lot of people can learn from your approach there. All right, let's go to the next thing, which was launching. I saw you do a LinkedIn Live. I watched it because I was like, I'm super curious about the product.
I've talked to you about it before I hadn't seen an action. But you actually launched a live product demo on LinkedIn Live and are being the product tour on your website. So again, following the transparency theme, but want to walk through that and get your, why'd you decide that? What was your approach?
And how are you going to expand on that? Yeah, definitely a part of the culture. Let's be transparent. Let's treat our prospects with respect and give them information they need without having to jump through too many hoops.
But I think also just being public that it's a real product. Yeah, it is real. There it is. Yeah, there's a lot up there that is kind of pseudo-real.
Or startups, especially at this kind of stage, will go demo Figmas and then use that to try to help people and bring them in and then actually go build that product over the next couple of years. We have 20 engineers or 20 engineers and product folks. We've been cranking away for a long time. We have a lot of products.
So we were pretty quiet about it for a long time. And so part of it is we should be public about it so people can see it and evaluate if they need it or want it as part of the culture. But also being a little bit transparent too. It's like, this is a real product that we could do with it and kind of differentiate from other startups that popped up in the 2020 or 2021 funding craze.
And you can go back to the end and you're maybe still trying to figure it out. And you maybe don't actually have a product yet. Or you just have very early product in your home page tells the vision about where it's maybe going to be in five years, but not the product you have today. And we try to be really honest about what we have today, what we don't have today, where are we going.
But we don't sell the product that we have for going to have in three years. We sell the product we have today, or maybe a couple months ahead. But as far as the product. The next release.
Yeah, right. Nice. Yeah, I think actually that's a differentiator for you guys and where you guys are. So it's like, why not show that off?
Why not publish that to the market, get people interested in it? People probably watch that who never been to your website. They're going to say, oh, this is really cool. Or I've heard of this community, but I don't exactly know what the product does.
And they're going to watch that and get educated on it. So totally smart. Love it. And then I saw you recently, I feel kind of like a stalker.
I'm not a stalker company. I was just seeing a lot of the stuff in the space. Yeah. I'm on LinkedIn a lot.
So I promise I'm not sucking your company. I saw you recently released the product led growth vendor landscape of 2022. And A, I was like, man, this is super, like for me, I work with some product led companies, but I'm not like a full product led marketer here. But it was super educational for me, just as a marketer in this space.
I was like, wow, this means the picture for me. I get what's going on here with all these tools. And then I also saw it was featured in some Saster talks to other people are picking it up. And it kind of is similar to that gigantic Martek map that's now, you know, it's not breakers, 10,000.
In the wild. Yeah. But I want to talk through that. I'm like, how do you think about doing it?
Why do you do it? Let's dig in there. Yeah, we published the first version of it a year ago. We did it.
Well, one, we were getting questions in the community and from others just, hey, what are all the new vendors in the space? So we made it to help out some folks. It's also a question that we had. Like, who are the vendors in the space?
Who's thinking about, you know, Martek or product with sales or reverse detail or whatever, you know, all the categories, but who's building go-to-market technologies for product like companies, like specifically for product like companies? So we made the first version a year ago and published it. And like the next week, it was already outdated. Like, there's so many vendors that are raising seed rounds and kind of popping up.
And this summer, we're like, you know, it's probably time to update it. And we probably should have done it a long time ago, because when we, when we, when we team put it together, it was already, it had doubled. So it's probably, you know, 30, 40 vendors now, like specifically building for go-to-market product like companies and like sub-categories are now, you know, big categories. And it's cool to see how it's evolving and, you know, what the different kind of markets each of the vendors are applying into.
And it's fun for me as just a geek about the space. And we have to like see how it's like to watch everyone, but I think it's fun to see the kind of, the, the, the categories a whole just get really, really big. And people think about like, yeah, it really is a cool time to build for a product like company. And we like didn't have as much visible.
It was, you know, us and a couple of smaller vendors. And it was like, you know, 2013, 2014, it was like, you know, we're like the only ones to kind of talk about that, the attributes and space. And now it's like totally different for product led. Everyone's talking about it.
So it's fun to be in a, in a crowded room. Yeah. Some people love to be in a crowded room, which like you just mentioned, everyone has their own preference. But you have experience of doing goal.
Yeah. The thing that, you know, I guess resonated with me as like a marketer is like, A, it's a super helpful thing. B, like you created it as a helpful resource from your community, from insights that you were getting. So it's again, coming from the right intent of educating the market, helping the market out.
And I think content like that and things like that, programs like that, are the ones that become super shareable, the ones that get a ton of reach. Like I've seen other people post that screenshot on LinkedIn. I've seen other people drop it into communities I'm in. Yeah.
I mean, that was the best, the best marketing doesn't feel like marketing. Yes. Like, you know, it wasn't made to, you know, be marketing for us, but it's certainly it's helpful for us. It's helped the community, but it's, you know, it was made from the right place.
And we're converting that landscape just to, you know, just a graphic with a bunch of logos on it. We're converting into an ebook because we're, we started getting questions about like, you know, helping people try to pick vendors. So we're getting the point now where we're trying to eat a book and looking at, you know, the market share of the categories and how they grown over the last five years and kind of where they headed and get into like, it's almost like a vendor buyer's guide, which is great for, especially since some of these startups are, you know, like us just a couple years old. And there's not a lot of references, you know, a lot of them are even on GT crowds.
It's like where do you go to just learn about it all? And so we're going to put that together for folks. That would be super educational. Yeah.
I mean, it takes a lot of time for people to like go do research, like figure out what's, you know, what do they do versus this company? Or like, what is their niche and specialty versus what can they do? Right? It takes, you know, your users are potential market a lot of time to go research.
So you can help that. And, you know, like setting kind of a non-biased way, which I'm sure you guys are obviously doing, then it's yeah, like mini GT for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, I'm sure GT will be like, okay, well, like, let's get these people profiles on our side. Yeah, let's look at our, let's look at our GT two. Let's get a good going.
Yeah. Let's get a good going. Let's go. But I'm sure they'll be like, that'll be its own category in like those things that people use, which is awesome.
Right. Yeah, that's right. Awesome. And then the other kind of thing that I wanted to chat through is just like, you know, shareability of stuff, like obviously you're using your network, your personal brand.
I see you posting and commenting, like, you know, you're in charge sales. Obviously you're not out there, like, you know, requested demo from me. But the interesting thing is you're taking use cases that people are problems that you see, people commenting or posting about and showing how you could, hey, look how easy this, our customer did this, use an inflection. So yes, you're showing the product, but it's more in a helpful way.
So I'm just curious of like, is that do you dedicate time to do that weekly? Or is that something natural you do? What does that look like? Yeah, both honestly, like, you know, sometimes I'll just be scrolling LinkedIn and I'll like something or comment or sometimes I do have like a time blocks rather week to spend time on, on, on community and I don't just mean like the community around.
I'm just mean like the industry community, like including LinkedIn. And it's like I'm all about like showing people rather than telling. I think that's just so much more kind of powerful. And we're at the point now where we have customers that employed some awesome use cases, some, some like really cool campaigns that companies are running.
You know, this is a wild thing about like building such a big platform is these are like use cases that were like not what we made for, you know, like, you're not like the first 10 campaigns we've launched. Like they didn't launch those. Like some of them launched to something totally creative and different. And I think that's so cool to see.
And so yeah, it's about getting out and just showing like what you can do with the software is better than showing or telling people what they can do. Like let me just show you what customers are running. And then even like, you know, there's a lot of email campaigns that companies run that aren't through market nation and engineers like set down for six months to like half, you know, half, half, five or six engineers like sitting down for a long time to kind of go build some of these email campaigns that these product like companies are doing. And you can run them very easily with us.
So it's fun just to show the examples, though, whether it's made from us or not. I don't really care. I think it's just need to socialize the, the art of the possible for product like companies because again, it's like it is new and people are still trying to figure out what are the right things to run and, you know, we've been just a revenue focused company for so long. Like this is how they think, you know, we want to be more like Peloton and Peloton is a really good job combining their product and the activity and engagement and kind of building a brand.
And we've seen a lot of B2B companies get inspired by here Peloton a lot. Be very inspired by how it's how blended the product and the marketing is at Peloton and you know, be like, how do we be like that? And so we'll give them examples regardless of B2B, B2C or even us because it's neat for people to start to get creative on their own and come up with things that we didn't even do anything about or realize. And it's just, it's cool to see that in the industry.
Yeah, I think also highlighting it, by doing that, you're also highlighting the practitioners that are doing these independent, like super inventive, like new approaches and like highlighting them, which is, you know, it's obviously got to make them feel good. But also be like, you're doing something new and different, which in honestly, in marketing is like very rare sometimes and also like kind of scary too. So it's giving them like a platform to say like, this is awesome. And like, what about, you know, this customer over here is going to try it or this person over there that's not even a customer is going to like give this a whirl and see if it works for their business.
So I think that's a super smart approach to just highlighting your use cases and highlighting your customers as well. For sure. Nice. Well, all I can say is I'm super excited to see kind of how things go.
And I just wanted to chat with you directly to like get the inside scoop on all this stuff that is going on. So if you haven't checked out in fleshing.io, you definitely should. And honestly, I just follow you guys and keep an eye on what's going on because I love your strategy. So any closing thoughts for anyone about the company or any community thoughts, anything like that?
First of all, thanks everyone for listening. It's great to be here and thank someone for having me and yeah, join our community product led to marketing and excited to see people over there and let's speak out and kind of go build a great industry together. Cause that's what we're here for. Love it.
All right. Thanks for chatting Dave. Thanks for listening everyone.